I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold at
Williams-Sonoma.

In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because the
temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
typical, not cooking whole chickens?

I cooked a pot roast yesterday and the water and juices eventually came
to a low simmer (on HI). Is this typical?

The outside housing is stainless steel and in no time at all it was
super hot!!! Is this typical?

The glass cover isn't really a snug fit and has a little room to slide
around. Is this typical?

It did warn that the ceramic temp should match the food temp to prevent
cracking. I imagine that's typical!

Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army to
feed. It's a big pup!

Andy
Something else to clean

On Sun 04 Sep 2005 05:01:05a, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold at
> Williams-Sonoma.

As slow cookers go, you could probably have done just as well with a Rival
for a whole bunch less.

> In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because the
> temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
> nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
> typical, not cooking whole chickens?

Oh, pshaw! Most slow cookers are rated low in wattage and most folks cook
whole chickens in them. Someone probably knows, but I've never actually
seen temps listed for the HI and LOW settings. I suspect that the LOW
setting maintains just around simmering.

> I cooked a pot roast yesterday and the water and juices eventually came
> to a low simmer (on HI). Is this typical?

Yes.

> The outside housing is stainles steel and in no time at all it was
> super hot!!! Is this typical?

Yes.

> The glass cover isn't really a snug fit and has a little room to slide
> around. Is this typical?

Yes.

> It did warn that the ceramic temp should match the food temp to prevent
> cracking. I imagine that's typical!

Do you mean, for example, that both the food and the crock should be at the
same temperature before you start cooking? Yes, that's a good idea, but I
admit that I've taken things from the fridge and put right in the crock,
then turned the cooker on. No problem.

> Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army to
> feed. It's a big pup!

You don't have to fill it, but I would recommend filling it at least half
way for best results.

> Andy
> Something else to clean

I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use virtually
nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that a word?), except
my good knives, which I hand wash.

Have fun!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun 04 Sep 2005 05:01:05a, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
> > I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold at
> > Williams-Sonoma.
>
> As slow cookers go, you could probably have done just as well with a Rival
> for a whole bunch less.
>
Yup, I own two Rivals. One is a 5 quart, the other a 7-1/2 quart oval. The
third is just a no-name bitty little thing I mainly use for making hot dips.

> > In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because the
> > temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
> > nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
> > typical, not cooking whole chickens?
>
> Oh, pshaw! Most slow cookers are rated low in wattage and most folks cook
> whole chickens in them. Someone probably knows, but I've never actually
> seen temps listed for the HI and LOW settings. I suspect that the LOW
> setting maintains just around simmering.
>
Any slow cooker I've ever had came with a recipe booklet and one of the
first things mentioned in each is a whole chicken. Just be prepared for it
to stew in its own juices (literally). If you want crispy chicken or
"roasted" chicken, go to KFC Speaking of which, a slow cooker is great
for making chicken stew!

The HI and LOW thing is basically how long do you want to cook it? LOW 8-10
hours or HI 4-6 hours? My larger oval cooker also has a "keep warm" setting
which is great in pot luck situations at the office. It also came with a
thermal carry case and heavy stretchy straps to anchor the lid down when
transporting.

Ever have one of those "darn, I should have patented this" ideas? I'd been
using big rubber bands to secure the lid down on my 20 year old slow cooker
(stretch across the lid and then around the cooker handles) for years before
I bought the new one. They just made the rubber bands "prettier"

Jill

On Sun 04 Sep 2005 05:28:03a, jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Ever have one of those "darn, I should have patented this" ideas? I'd
> been using big rubber bands to secure the lid down on my 20 year old
> slow cooker (stretch across the lid and then around the cooker handles)
> for years before I bought the new one. They just made the rubber bands
> "prettier"
>

And they made money on it! More's the pity you didn't apply for a patent.
Same thing with "bungy" cords.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

Andy wrote:
> Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army to
> feed. It's a big pup!

No you don't. I have a 7 quart slow cooker. I routinely do things like
stews and chili in it. We make enough to freeze for quick meals later
on in the work week.

Sandi

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Sun 04 Sep 2005 05:01:05a, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold
>> at Williams-Sonoma.
>
> As slow cookers go, you could probably have done just as well with a
> Rival for a whole bunch less.

I know. I went to Target and saw some Rivals and others but the housings
were cheap-o plastics and flimsy. As hot as my cooker got, I pictured
them melting.



>> In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because
>> the temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
>> nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
>> typical, not cooking whole chickens?
>
> Oh, pshaw! Most slow cookers are rated low in wattage and most folks
> cook whole chickens in them. Someone probably knows, but I've never
> actually seen temps listed for the HI and LOW settings. I suspect
> that the LOW setting maintains just around simmering.

I'll try a small chicken and get some temp readings at some point. I
don't know how it'll look when finished. My oven roasted birds always
look great!



>> Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army
>> to feed. It's a big pup!
>
> You don't have to fill it, but I would recommend filling it at least
> half way for best results.

I never cooked enough to freeze stuff but now it's a great idea.



> Have fun!

Thanks for the advice and the funny sig!

Andy

Andy at q wrote on 9/4/05 8:01 AM:

> I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold at
> Williams-Sonoma.

7 qt is a little big for a small family--don't know what your situation
is--but it will come in handy. Just make sure it's always at least half
full. You don't want it more than 3/4 full, anyway.

> In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because the
> temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
> nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
> typical, not cooking whole chickens?

Yes, it is. You can make small birds in a crock pot, like a cornish game
hen. I wouldn't go bigger than a 3-3.5 lb broiler in a crock pot. And
DEFINITELY not stuffed! It's not that the temp doesn't get hot enough--it's
that the temp doesn't get hot enough QUICK ENOUGH to avoid the danger zone
for salmonella and other nasties that seem to like chicken. The slow
heating takes time to penetrate the entire bird, and the center of the bird
winds up being "lukewarm" (the perfect environment for bacteria) for an
extended period of time. And especially in a large slow cooker, the food
will be farther from the sides, where the heating elements are, so it will
take longer for the heat to penetrate all the way through than it would in,
say, a 3.5 quart slow cooker.

If the booklet says don't do it, I wouldn't. It might be ok.
But what if it turns out it's not? Is food poisoning one of those things you
really want to experience?

Chicken parts are a different matter. They are acceptable in the slow
cooker (but they don't need as long as, say, a chuck roast or a pork
shoulder.) Follow the guidelines in the booklet that came with the
slow-cooker. You just might want to brown the pieces before dumping them
into the pot.

You usually don't want to skip the browning step when using a slow-cooker.
The slow-cooker is really a simmering pot....and if you don't brown your
meat in a pan on the stove-top, you will wind up with water-logged meat.

>
> I cooked a pot roast yesterday and the water and juices eventually came
> to a low simmer (on HI). Is this typical?
>
> The outside housing is stainless steel and in no time at all it was
> super hot!!! Is this typical?

I dunno. I have cheaper slow-cookers (West Bend and Hamilton Beach brands,
one less than $15, one less than $25) and I imagine their housing is
aluminum. It gets hot, yes. Super hot? Not sure if I'd characterize it as
super-hot but yeah, it gets hot. It's a cooking pot. It's gonna get hot!
Also, the heating elements are in the walls of the housing, the coils wrap
around the crock and that's how it cooks. So yeah, don't worry about that.
Just keep plastic bags and little fingers away from it when it's on.
>
> The glass cover isn't really a snug fit and has a little room to slide
> around. Is this typical?

Yes. That's by design, so there is a slight amount of evaporation from the
pot during simmering. If it were a snug fit, you'd really be steaming the
food.

> It did warn that the ceramic temp should match the food temp to prevent
> cracking. I imagine that's typical!

Physics. Yeah, perfectly normal. There's wiggle room there, though. If you
put ICY cold food into a room temp crock, then turn on the pot, it won't
crack. Don't do that for another reason though--see my first point. Really
cold food will take longer to reach a safe temp and you could wind up with a
food-poisoning incubator. You don't want that! What you want to avoid is
extremes of temp...NEVER pre-heat the crock pot, or turn it on without any
food in it. This can cause cracking--putting COLD food into a HOT crock.
Same goes for any crockery cookware. (Those clay bakers, for example) It's
just simple physics.

To avoid cracking, just put warm from the skillet or room temp ingredients
into a room-temp crock, and switch it on immediately.
>
> Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army to
> feed. It's a big pup!

Invest in some Gladware containers and freeze the leftovers in meal-sized
portions. This will come in very handy when you come home from work tired
and don't feel like cooking but want a home-cooked meal. Voila, instant
pot-roast! Seriously...most foods that work well in the slow-cooker freeze
well, also. Just be sure to label the containers with contents and date, and
use them up within 3 months. Unless you have a vacuum sealer. Then stick the
filled containers (bottoms only) into a vacuum sealer bag, suck out all the
air, seal, label and those will be able to be kept months longer.
>
> Andy
> Something else to clean

Slow cookers are great but you have to know how to use them.

You don't need special recipes, you can use your favorite recipes, but keep
in mind a couple points:

1. There is no browning in a slow-cooker, so always pre-brown anything you
want to benefit from that nice "caramelized" flavor. The exception to this
is you can make a meatloaf in a slow-cooker and somehow it does develop
crust. It's not brown, really, but it is crust, and it's delicious. Just
make sure it touches the sides of the pot. Also, it's perfect for making
caramelized onions.

2. There is very little evaporation, so cut way down on the liquid in the
recipe. Never more than 8 ounces of liquid (including thick liquids like
tomato sauce, barbecue sauce, honey, ketchup, etc) Keep in mind, water from
the meats and veggies will also come out in the cooking process, which adds
to the liquid in the pot. So try to use flavorful cooking liquids, like
broth, wine, etc. It will get diluted from the natural juices of the foods
you are cooking anyway.

Good luck.
---
Love like you've never been hurt
Live like there's no tomorrow
And dance like there's nobody watching

Andy wrote:
> I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad sold at
> Williams-Sonoma.
>
> In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because the
> temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W but
> nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are. Is this
> typical, not cooking whole chickens?


I suspect that is just the response to slow down Dewey, Cheatum & Howe
who are just waiting to enrich themselves with a big suit if someone
were to get sick and claim that the instructions omitted some
prohibition. I imagine there is also a prohibition about using the
device while swimming and not to place small (live) animals in it.

A crockpot isn't temperature regulated so there is no concept of hi or
lo temperatures. The hi an low simply refers to the rate at which heat
is added.




>
> I cooked a pot roast yesterday and the water and juices eventually came
> to a low simmer (on HI). Is this typical?
>
> The outside housing is stainless steel and in no time at all it was
> super hot!!! Is this typical?
>
> The glass cover isn't really a snug fit and has a little room to slide
> around. Is this typical?
>
> It did warn that the ceramic temp should match the food temp to prevent
> cracking. I imagine that's typical!
>
> Now I can try all those great slow cooker recipes! Just need an army to
> feed. It's a big pup!
>
> Andy
> Something else to clean

Sheryl Rosen wrote:

<Great info snipped>

> Good luck.


Sheryl,

Thanks for all the great info!

Do you write user manuals in your spare time?? --JUST KIDDING!--

All the best,

Andy

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 04 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Do you mean, for example, that both the food and the crock should be
> at the same temperature before you start cooking? Yes, that's a
> good idea, but I admit that I've taken things from the fridge and
> put right in the crock, then turned the cooker on. No problem.
>

Hell, I've thrown in frozen stuff, and I have a Rival. I used to have the
fancy timer Rival as well, but I didn't like the way the timer
worked...It only allowed you to select the cooking duration after you set
the hi/low temp setting. So putting in frozen stuff and selecting a
delayed start time wasn't feasible.


--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

Andy wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Sun 04 Sep 2005 05:01:05a, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> I finally bought a slow cooker. It's a 7-qt cooker, the All-Clad
>>> sold at Williams-Sonoma.
>>
>> As slow cookers go, you could probably have done just as well with a
>> Rival for a whole bunch less.
>
> I know. I went to Target and saw some Rivals and others but the
> housings were cheap-o plastics and flimsy. As hot as my cooker got, I
> pictured them melting.
>
>
>
>>> In the instructions it says do not slow cook a whole chicken because
>>> the temperature doesn't get hot enough. The unit is rated at 330W
>>> but nowhere does it mention what the HI and LOW temps really are.
>>> Is this typical, not cooking whole chickens?
>>
>> Oh, pshaw! Most slow cookers are rated low in wattage and most folks
>> cook whole chickens in them. Someone probably knows, but I've never
>> actually seen temps listed for the HI and LOW settings. I suspect
>> that the LOW setting maintains just around simmering.
>
> I'll try a small chicken and get some temp readings at some point. I
> don't know how it'll look when finished. My oven roasted birds always
> look great!
>
Do NOT expect a slow-cooked chicken to resemble anything like an oven
roasted bird.

Jill

"Mr Libido Incognito" > wrote in message
...
> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 04 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> Do you mean, for example, that both the food and the crock should be
>> at the same temperature before you start cooking? Yes, that's a
>> good idea, but I admit that I've taken things from the fridge and
>> put right in the crock, then turned the cooker on. No problem.
>>
>
> Hell, I've thrown in frozen stuff, and I have a Rival. I used to have
> the
> fancy timer Rival as well, but I didn't like the way the timer
> worked...It only allowed you to select the cooking duration after you
> set
> the hi/low temp setting. So putting in frozen stuff and selecting a
> delayed start time wasn't feasible.

My crock pot may run hotter than those here but I deliberately put
frozen joints or chicken into my crock pot before I leave for work in
the morning. If I put unfrozen then the meat is over cooked when I get
home.

Ophelia

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

<snip>
>>Andy
>>Something else to clean
>
>
> I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use virtually
> nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that a word?), except
> my good knives, which I hand wash.

Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't put
my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots and
one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find the
dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a film
left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with kid
gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
knives are handwashed too.
>
> Have fun!
>

~patches~ wrote:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>>Andy
>>>Something else to clean
>>
>>
>> I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use
>> virtually nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that
>> a word?), except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>
> Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't
> put my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots
> and one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find
> the dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a
> film left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with
> kid gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
> surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
> knives are handwashed too.
>>
>> Have fun!


~patches~,

The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it
and washed it in the sink.

I handwash my good knife and wood spatula and spoons.

Andy

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 05:46:07a, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>>Andy
>>>Something else to clean
>>
>>
>> I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use virtually
>> nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that a word?),
>> except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>
> Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't put
> my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots and
> one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find the
> dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a film
> left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with kid
> gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
> surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
> knives are handwashed too.

I don't like dishwasher spotting either, but luckily mine rarely does it.
I also have polished SS pots, well the interior is a brushed finish, but
they come out spot free 99% of the time. I only own one non-stick pan and
I've had it for years. When I take it out of the dishwasher, I rub a tiny
bit of oil on the non-stick coating. As long as nothing is actually
touching the nonstick surface, it seems to fare well in the DW.


--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

Andy wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>
>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>>Andy
>>>>Something else to clean
>>>
>>>
>>>I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use
>>>virtually nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that
>>>a word?), except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>>
>>Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't
>>put my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots
>>and one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find
>>the dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a
>>film left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with
>>kid gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
>>surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
>>knives are handwashed too.
>>
>>>Have fun!
>
>
>
> ~patches~,
>
> The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it
> and washed it in the sink.

Did you get one of the oval style crockpots? I'm in the market for a
new one since I'm still using the old Rival bought before we had kids.
The cord accidently hit one of the stove burners and I won't trust it if
I'm not home. I'm leaning towards the oval style with a timer.
>
> I handwash my good knife and wood spatula and spoons.
>
> Andy

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 06 Sep 2005 05:46:07a, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>
>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>>Andy
>>>>Something else to clean
>>>
>>>
>>>I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use virtually
>>>nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that a word?),
>>>except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>>
>>Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't put
>>my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots and
>>one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find the
>>dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a film
>>left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with kid
>>gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
>>surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
>>knives are handwashed too.
>
>
> I don't like dishwasher spotting either, but luckily mine rarely does it.
> I also have polished SS pots, well the interior is a brushed finish, but
> they come out spot free 99% of the time. I only own one non-stick pan and
> I've had it for years. When I take it out of the dishwasher, I rub a tiny
> bit of oil on the non-stick coating. As long as nothing is actually
> touching the nonstick surface, it seems to fare well in the DW.
>
>
I'm not sure what is causing the spotting. We have soft water and I use
Electrosol Gel with Jet Dry Action. For some reason my pots don't like
the dishwasher. Fussy little buggers, I tell you! Thanks for the tip
of rubbing a little oil onto the non-stick coating. I'll give it a try.

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Andy wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>Andy
>>>>>Something else to clean
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use
>>>>virtually nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that
>>>>a word?), except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>>>
>>>Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't
>>>put my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots
>>>and one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find
>>>the dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a
>>>film left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with
>>>kid gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
>>>surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
>>>knives are handwashed too.
>>>
>>>>Have fun!
>>
>>
>>
>> ~patches~,
>>
>> The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it and
>> washed it in the sink.
>
> Did you get one of the oval style crockpots? I'm in the market for a new
> one since I'm still using the old Rival bought before we had kids. The
> cord accidently hit one of the stove burners and I won't trust it if I'm
> not home. I'm leaning towards the oval style with a timer.
>>
>> I handwash my good knife and wood spatula and spoons.
>>
>> Andy

I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using bamboo
steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap, possibly?. Repeating
myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables with soap because if they're
not rinsed enough, it can be harmful, cause a lot of stomach problems. I'm
assuming the same goes with leaving soap on utensils.
Just a thought,
Dee Dee

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 12:59:35p, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> I'm not sure what is causing the spotting. We have soft water and I use
> Electrosol Gel with Jet Dry Action. For some reason my pots don't like
> the dishwasher. Fussy little buggers, I tell you! Thanks for the tip
> of rubbing a little oil onto the non-stick coating. I'll give it a try.

There are a lot of variables; water, detergent, different metals (not all
SS is the same), and the DW itself.

We have very hard water and, since we're renting, no option of installing a
softener. At one point I thought the situation was hopeless, as we were
getting spotting on almost everything. Our SS flatware was even becoming
discolored. I tried most of the dishwasher products available, and finally
hit on Electrasol Tablets with Jet-Dry PowerBall. The package recommended
to continue using rinse agent in the dispenser if the water was very hard.
All of this was an improvement, but I still was left with the result of
previous washings; cloudy glassware, not so shiny SS. Then I found Lemi-
Shine. That stuff cleared up all the problems. Now, about every 10th load,
I fill the closed up with Lemi-Shine and drop a tablet in the tub.

If you have soft water, you shouldn't need the Lemi-Shine, but you might
want to try the Electrasol Tablets with Jet-Dry Powerball. I found it to
be superior over the jel.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

~patches~ wrote:

>> ~patches~,
>>
>> The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it
>> and washed it in the sink.
>
> Did you get one of the oval style crockpots? I'm in the market for a
> new one since I'm still using the old Rival bought before we had kids.
> The cord accidently hit one of the stove burners and I won't trust it
if
> I'm not home. I'm leaning towards the oval style with a timer.


~patches~,

I did buy the oval shaped cooker. I bought the pricey all-clad that
williams-sonoma sells.

It's got a timer, but not very advanced. I'd like to be able to program
it HI for 2 hours then LOW for 4 hours, then WARM. Some recipes call for
this kind of timing. [sigh]

All the best,

Andy

When a roast is in the slow cooker, like a rump roast that's pretty tall
and a good portion is above the water/juice level, do you turn the roast
over periodically?

Andy

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:05:19p, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> When a roast is in the slow cooker, like a rump roast that's pretty
>> tall and a good portion is above the water/juice level, do you turn
>> the roast over periodically?
>>
>> Andy
>
> No need. If fact, when I do a slow cooker roast, I usually build a
> "rack" out of celery, onions, etc., to elevate the roast out of all
> liquid. The results are great.


Wayne,

That's a great idea. It just looks like it's drying out. Takes some
getting used to, obviously!

Thanks,

Andy

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:05:19p, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> When a roast is in the slow cooker, like a rump roast that's pretty tall
> and a good portion is above the water/juice level, do you turn the roast
> over periodically?
>
> Andy

No need. If fact, when I do a slow cooker roast, I usually build a "rack"
out of celery, onions, etc., to elevate the roast out of all liquid. The
results are great.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:21:18p, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>> No need. If fact, when I do a slow cooker roast, I usually build a
>> "rack" out of celery, onions, etc., to elevate the roast out of all
>> liquid. The results are great.
>
>
> Wayne,
>
> That's a great idea. It just looks like it's drying out. Takes some
> getting used to, obviously!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andy

The roast may look dry on the surface, but it's usually very moist and
tender inside. Remember, it's roasting in a closed, steamy evironment, not
dry heat. That makes a difference. FWIW, I never cook roasts on HI, if
fact I cook very few things on HI, even to start. I cook a roast on LOW
for anywhere from 8-12 hours, depending on the size and cut.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

Dee Randall wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Andy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>
>>>><snip>
>>>>
>>>>>>Andy
>>>>>>Something else to clean
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use
>>>>>virtually nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that
>>>>>a word?), except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>>>>
>>>>Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't
>>>>put my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots
>>>>and one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find
>>>>the dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a
>>>>film left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with
>>>>kid gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
>>>>surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
>>>>knives are handwashed too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Have fun!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>~patches~,
>>>
>>>The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it and
>>>washed it in the sink.
>>
>>Did you get one of the oval style crockpots? I'm in the market for a new
>>one since I'm still using the old Rival bought before we had kids. The
>>cord accidently hit one of the stove burners and I won't trust it if I'm
>>not home. I'm leaning towards the oval style with a timer.
>>
>>>I handwash my good knife and wood spatula and spoons.
>>>
>>>Andy
>
>
> I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
> couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
> Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using bamboo
> steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap, possibly?. Repeating
> myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables with soap because if they're
> not rinsed enough, it can be harmful, cause a lot of stomach problems. I'm
> assuming the same goes with leaving soap on utensils.
> Just a thought,
> Dee Dee
>
>
I'm with you on this one. I gave up all my wood in favour of heavy duty
Paderno utensils made of nylon? and silicon utensils. I have a few
stainless steel pieces but no more wood. DH actually raised the concern
over sterility more as a joke I think but it got me wondering.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:21:18p, Andy wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>> No need. If fact, when I do a slow cooker roast, I usually build a
>>> "rack" out of celery, onions, etc., to elevate the roast out of all
>>> liquid. The results are great.
>>
>>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> That's a great idea. It just looks like it's drying out. Takes some
>> getting used to, obviously!
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Andy
>
> The roast may look dry on the surface, but it's usually very moist and
> tender inside. Remember, it's roasting in a closed, steamy
> evironment, not dry heat. That makes a difference. FWIW, I never
> cook roasts on HI, if fact I cook very few things on HI, even to
> start. I cook a roast on LOW for anywhere from 8-12 hours, depending
> on the size and cut.


Wayne,

Good explanation. I'm OK with that. I just have to gauge the doneness
and time with this new slow cooker. Learning curves and me go way back!


All the best,

Andy

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 06 Sep 2005 12:59:35p, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>
>>I'm not sure what is causing the spotting. We have soft water and I use
>>Electrosol Gel with Jet Dry Action. For some reason my pots don't like
>>the dishwasher. Fussy little buggers, I tell you! Thanks for the tip
>>of rubbing a little oil onto the non-stick coating. I'll give it a try.
>
>
> There are a lot of variables; water, detergent, different metals (not all
> SS is the same), and the DW itself.
>
> We have very hard water and, since we're renting, no option of installing a
> softener. At one point I thought the situation was hopeless, as we were
> getting spotting on almost everything. Our SS flatware was even becoming
> discolored. I tried most of the dishwasher products available, and finally
> hit on Electrasol Tablets with Jet-Dry PowerBall. The package recommended
> to continue using rinse agent in the dispenser if the water was very hard.
> All of this was an improvement, but I still was left with the result of
> previous washings; cloudy glassware, not so shiny SS. Then I found Lemi-
> Shine. That stuff cleared up all the problems. Now, about every 10th load,
> I fill the closed up with Lemi-Shine and drop a tablet in the tub.
>
> If you have soft water, you shouldn't need the Lemi-Shine, but you might
> want to try the Electrasol Tablets with Jet-Dry Powerball. I found it to
> be superior over the jel.
>
Thanks Wayne, I check out the Lemi-Shine. Is it available at a regular
grocery store or do you have to go to the hardware store? I've used the
powerball tabs before without luck so figured I was into having to wash
the pots and pans by hand.

~patches~ wrote:

>> I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
>> couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
>> Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using
>> bamboo steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap,
>> possibly?. Repeating myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables
>> with soap because if they're not rinsed enough, it can be harmful,
>> cause a lot of stomach problems. I'm assuming the same goes with
>> leaving soap on utensils.
>> Just a thought,
>> Dee Dee
>>
> I'm with you on this one. I gave up all my wood in favour of heavy duty
> Paderno utensils made of nylon? and silicon utensils. I have a few
> stainless steel pieces but no more wood. DH actually raised the concern
> over sterility more as a joke I think but it got me wondering.

I think you over exaggerate any potential problem with wooden utensils.
Have you ever heard of anyone being sickened by using them? Did you know
that wooden cutting boards have been found to harbor less bacteria than
plastic? Don't you wash in hot water?
I just have to wonder where common sense went sometimes when people
worry about problems their grandmothers wouldn't bat an eye over? <shrug>
Goomba

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:42:08p, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Thanks Wayne, I check out the Lemi-Shine. Is it available at a regular
> grocery store or do you have to go to the hardware store? I've used the
> powerball tabs before without luck so figured I was into having to wash
> the pots and pans by hand.

I buy it at WalMart, but have also found it at Fry's (Kroger's). With soft
water you shouldn't really need it, but it might be worth a try. It will
definitely clean out your dishwasher, as well.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

On Tue 06 Sep 2005 02:43:20p, Goomba38 wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>> I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
>>> couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
>>> Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using
>>> bamboo steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap, possibly?.
>>> Repeating myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables with soap
because
>>> if they're not rinsed enough, it can be harmful, cause a lot of
stomach
>>> problems. I'm assuming the same goes with leaving soap on utensils.
>>> Just a thought,
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>> I'm with you on this one. I gave up all my wood in favour of heavy duty
>> Paderno utensils made of nylon? and silicon utensils. I have a few
>> stainless steel pieces but no more wood. DH actually raised the concern
>> over sterility more as a joke I think but it got me wondering.
>
> I think you over exaggerate any potential problem with wooden utensils.
> Have you ever heard of anyone being sickened by using them? Did you know
> that wooden cutting boards have been found to harbor less bacteria than
> plastic? Don't you wash in hot water?
> I just have to wonder where common sense went sometimes when people
> worry about problems their grandmothers wouldn't bat an eye over? <shrug>
> Goomba
>

And I'm with you on this one, Goomba. People have become absolutely phobic
about sanitation. I consider myself a very careful and clean cook and
housekeeper, but I draw the line at feeling the need to wash everything
down with bleach, alcohol, and peroxide. A hot soapy wash, rinse, and air
drying will eliminate virtually any problem, AFAIC. In the past 40 years,
no one I know of has ever become ill from my cooking.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

My doctor told me to stop having intimate dinners for four,
unless there are three other people.

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>> "~patches~" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Andy wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Andy
>>>>>>>Something else to clean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have always put the crock and lid in the dishwasher. I use
>>>>>>virtually nothing in the kitchen that is not dishwasherable (is that
>>>>>>a word?), except my good knives, which I hand wash.
>>>>>
>>>>>Andy, I put the crock and lid in the dishwasher too. Wayne, I don't
>>>>>put my pots and pans or any non-stick pans in the dishwasher. My pots
>>>>>and one fry pan are stainless steel with a polished finish. I find
>>>>>the dishwasher leaves spots that I don't like and sometimes there is a
>>>>>film left on the inside. I treat my non-stick frypans and wok with
>>>>>kid gloves. IME the dishwasher not only leaves spots on the non-stick
>>>>>surface but lessens the lifespan of the non-stick surface. My good
>>>>>knives are handwashed too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Have fun!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>~patches~,
>>>>
>>>>The crock is so large that it's a real dishwasher hog, so I soaked it
>>>>and washed it in the sink.
>>>
>>>Did you get one of the oval style crockpots? I'm in the market for a new
>>>one since I'm still using the old Rival bought before we had kids. The
>>>cord accidently hit one of the stove burners and I won't trust it if I'm
>>>not home. I'm leaning towards the oval style with a timer.
>>>
>>>>I handwash my good knife and wood spatula and spoons.
>>>>
>>>>Andy
>>
>>
>> I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
>> couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
>> Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using
>> bamboo steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap, possibly?.
>> Repeating myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables with soap because
>> if they're not rinsed enough, it can be harmful, cause a lot of stomach
>> problems. I'm assuming the same goes with leaving soap on utensils.
>> Just a thought,
>> Dee Dee
> I'm with you on this one. I gave up all my wood in favour of heavy duty
> Paderno utensils made of nylon? and silicon utensils. I have a few
> stainless steel pieces but no more wood. DH actually raised the concern
> over sterility more as a joke I think but it got me wondering.


Wood is porous.
Dee Dee
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/5000/5353.html

"Do not use detergent when washing fruits and vegetables. The detergent
residues will be left on the fruits and vegetables.

Produce items are porous and will absorb the detergent.

The Food and Drug Administration has not labeled detergent to be used on
foods."

Goomba38 wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>> I stopped using wooden utensils to cook because I felt that the soap
>>> couldn't be rinsed off before it soaked into the wood.
>>> Today I was wondering about this same concept when I questioned using
>>> bamboo steamers and how they should be cleaned - with soap,
>>> possibly?. Repeating myself, but I've read not to wash vegetables
>>> with soap because if they're not rinsed enough, it can be harmful,
>>> cause a lot of stomach problems. I'm assuming the same goes with
>>> leaving soap on utensils.
>>> Just a thought,
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>> I'm with you on this one. I gave up all my wood in favour of heavy
>> duty Paderno utensils made of nylon? and silicon utensils. I have a
>> few stainless steel pieces but no more wood. DH actually raised the
>> concern over sterility more as a joke I think but it got me wondering.
>
>
> I think you over exaggerate any potential problem with wooden utensils.
> Have you ever heard of anyone being sickened by using them? Did you know
> that wooden cutting boards have been found to harbor less bacteria than
> plastic? Don't you wash in hot water?
> I just have to wonder where common sense went sometimes when people
> worry about problems their grandmothers wouldn't bat an eye over? <shrug>
> Goomba
Could be but I'd rather err on the side of caution. I don't use wood
for anything including cutting boards. The neat thing about having your
own kitchen is you do things your way. If you are comfortable using
wood whatever, go for it. We aren't and choose not to. It's all about
choice, you know. To each their own BTW, my food tastes just as
good without using wood utensils.

Andy wrote on 06 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Good explanation. I'm OK with that. I just have to gauge the doneness
> and time with this new slow cooker. Learning curves and me go way back!
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Andy
>

The Roast is cooked when a fork enters the meat fairly readily and you can
just start to twist the fork with only a little resistance and some bounce
back. We aren't talking medium rare food here. Least resistance and no
bounce back means it is a pulled beef dish and get out the BBQ sauce.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

~patches~ wrote:

> Could be but I'd rather err on the side of caution. I don't use wood
> for anything including cutting boards. The neat thing about having your
> own kitchen is you do things your way. If you are comfortable using
> wood whatever, go for it. We aren't and choose not to. It's all about
> choice, you know. To each their own BTW, my food tastes just as
> good without using wood utensils.

I agree that you should use what you like. If you wash and dry your
cutting boards properly there's nothing to worry about. But if your
intent is to err on the side of caution, there is some good research
indicating wood is actually marginally safer.

From "Plastic and Wooden Cutting Boards", Dean O. Cliver, Ph.D

<http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/faculty/docliver/Research/cuttingboard.htm>

Although the bacteria that have disappeared from the wood surfaces
are found alive inside the wood for some time after application,
they evidently do not multiply, and they gradually die. They can be
detected only by splitting or gouging the wood or by forcing water
completely through from one surface to the other. If a sharp knife
is used to cut into the work surfaces after used plastic or wood
has been contaminated with bacteria and cleaned manually, more
bacteria are recovered from a used plastic surface than from a
used wood surface

Note that last line once again: more bacteria are recovered from a
used plastic surface than from a used wood surface.

Personally I use wood boards because I like the feel and I don't
buy the marketing hype that plastic is safer to any significant
degree.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Mr Libido Incognito > said:

> The Roast is cooked when a fork enters the meat fairly readily and you can
> just start to twist the fork with only a little resistance and some bounce
> back. We aren't talking medium rare food here. Least resistance and no
> bounce back means it is a pulled beef dish and get out the BBQ sauce.

LOL! Been there, done that. Or over-done that.

ObRecipe:

* Exported from MasterCook *

Italian Beef Sandwiches

Recipe By amsel in dis Dress
Serving Size : 12 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : beef crockpot
sandwiches

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 tablespoon olive oil
5 pounds round roast, trimmed
1 1/2 cups water
7 cloves garlic -- crushed
1 tablespoon salt
1 tablespoon dried oregano
1 tablespoon dried basil
2 teaspoons red pepper flakes
1/2 teaspoon garlic powder

Heat olive oil in skillet; brown the roast on all sides. Place roast in
large crockpot. Combine water and remaining ingredients; stir well. Pour
over roast; cook on HIGH for 5 hours or until tender.

Remove roast from crockpot, cover, and refrigerate. Strain broth into a
storage container and refrigerate until ready to use.

Slice chilled meat very thinly and place into crockpot or large saucepan.
Pour strained broth over meat, and cook gently until heated through.

Serve meat slices, piled high on crusty rolls, with heated broth for
dipping.

Optional: Provolone cheese; giardiniera or peperoncini.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Reg wrote on 06 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> Personally I use wood boards because I like the feel and I don't
> buy the marketing hype that plastic is safer to any significant
> degree.
>

I carve on wood, things like roasts turkeys etc.

But I chop on plastic; basically because it is dishwasher safe and those
flexy thin plactic chopping boards make it so much easier to to move the
chopped up stuff to the pot/pan/salad bowl. Just slightly fold and pour the
stuff in.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.