(Colin Reed) wrote in message . com>...
> (Bradwell Jackson) wrote in message . com>...
> > "Colin Reed" > wrote in message >...
> > >
> > > On the question of French food, I would still say that the influences and
> > > techniques of French cookery still dominate in most of the "top" restaurants
> > > in the UK. If you look for Michelin stars you will find more of them going
> > > to French/British cuisine than Pan-Pacific or Spanish.
> > >
> >
> > When you say "British" cuisine, do you mean Toad-in-a-hole, Bangers
> > and Mash, Cornish Pasty, Shepard's Pie, et. al, or do you mean the
> > foreign food that is taking over Britain?
> >
> > Brad
>
> Before the industrial revolution, the cooking styles of France and
> England were relatively similar, although there was a heavier use of
> spices in British cooking, reflecting the spread of the British Empire
> and the spice routes. Therefore it would be quite common to make a
> Salmon en croute (yes British cuisine still used the French language)
> using a butter flavoured with cinnamon, mace, ginger and raisins.
> Many restaurant chefs in Britain are looking back to some of those
> dishes and bringing them up to date to make a "Modern British
> Cuisine", which is still heavily French influenced. It is not
> uncommon to see dishes in UK restaurants in which Black Pudding is
> sauteed with apples and apple liqueur from Somerset (English apple
> spirit, similar to Calvados), or a leg of rabbit is stuffed with a
> liver forcemeat. There is still the perennial argument as to whether
> Skate with Black Butter is actually French, or is in fact a British
> dish.
> England has probably the most multi-cultural cuisine in Europe, but
> there is still (thank goodness) some interest in its native cuisine.

I have heard this same analysis with Duck a l'Orange. Is this dish
British or French?


>
> Colin

>(Bradly Jackass) babbles:
>
>"Peter Aitken" wrote
>>"Bradly Jackass" wrote:
>>>"Peter Aitken" wrote:
>>>>"Julia Altshuler" wrote..
>>>>>Bradly Jackass wrote:
>>>>>>Is French cooking still the premier cooking in the world?
>>>>>
>>>>>The question assumes that it once was. That's a matter for debate.
>>>>>Many cuisines could be considered better. I'd say that French
>cooking
>>>>>is up there, but so is Italian, Thai, Chinese, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. Trying to put one cuisine above all others is silly IMO.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be fair to say that French cuisine is more sophisticated
>>>than that of Gambia, for example?
>>
>>It might be but that is not what's being discussed. I am not claiming that
>>all cuisines are equal, just that there is no one "best."
>
>Are there cuisines that are clearly more preferred by gourmets around the
>world?

French is not a cuisine, only those particular *regions* within France can be
indicative of a cuisine... none of which are very popular on a worldwide
basis... to wit there are far more *millions* who prefer say Cantonese.
There's also no such cuisine as Chinese.

Btw, Gambian cuisine is quite encompassing, considering it's geography probably
enjoyed by more folks worldwide than any regional
French cuisine.

http://gambiainformation.tripod.com/...ood-links.html


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

Bradwell Jackson wrote:

> No, actually I'm just curious about cuisine and I like to learn. I
> like learning for the sake of learning, and I don't even need a grade
> to make the experience enjoyable.


If that's the case, start with a question, not an outrageous statement.
The latter ends up sounding more like a gambit to get others to do
your homework for you. Also, google and the public library are better
places for that sort of information. Usenet is a great place for
meeting people and getting their opinions. For fact, you need a better
source. Afterall, any of us here might be biased, crazy or stupid. We
might assert something, and it might not be true.


In order to answer the question about cuisines that are clearly more
preferred by gourmets around the world, you'd need a clear definition of
gourmet. Otherwise the logic gets circular: Gourmets around the world
prefer French cuisine. Therefore French cuisine is the best. How do we
know those folks are gourmets? Because they like French cuisine!
Unsophisticated palates prefer Gambian cuisine which we know is inferior
because unsophisticated palates prefer it. See what I mean?


--Lia

hahabogus wrote:
> (Colin Reed) wrote in
> om:
>
>
(Bradwell Jackson) wrote in message
e.com>...
>>
>>>"Colin Reed" > wrote in message
>...
>>>
>>>>This is quite a narrow view of French cuisine. You actually find
>>>>more cream, butter, eggs, etc in Swiss and German cooking. The
>>>>heavy use of dairy tends to happen in Normandy, but not in the
>>>>south. Provence is all about freshness and loads of fresh herbs.
>>>
>>>This sounds like Tuscan food. Is it true that the French stole their
>>>ideas from the Italians?
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>
>>Not really. Remember that the tomatoes and peppers now prevalent in
>>both Tuscan and Provencal cooking are not indigenous to Europe, and so
>>they were not really stolen one from the other. In fact going further
>>back in history, Italy was once partially occupied by the Gauls who,
>>with a liking for Pork, taught the Italians pig husbandry. Pork is
>>now of course very popular in Italy.
>>The use of simple, fresh produce with lots of herbs is now really
>>indicative of all of the countries on the Mediterranean. It comes in
>>French, Italian, Spanish and Greek cuisine to name but a few.
>>
>>Colin
>>
>
>
> Determining the best cooking is like determining which is the best religon.
> There is no true winner.
> Everything is in the eye of the beholder.
>

Make that taste of the eater.


jim

Bradwell Jackson wrote:

> JimLane > wrote in message >...
>
>>Bradwell Jackson wrote:
>>
>>>"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message . com>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
>>>>news:Crmxc.16824$4S5.3327@attbi_s52...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bradwell Jackson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Is French cooking still the premier cooking in the world?
>>>>>
>>>>>The question assumes that it once was. That's a matter for debate.
>>>>>Many cuisines could be considered better. I'd say that French cooking
>>>>>is up there, but so is Italian, Thai, Chinese, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>--Lia
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Exactly. Trying to put one cuisine above all others is silly IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be fair to say that French cuisine is more sophisticated
>>>than that of Gambia, for example?
>>>
>>>Brad
>>
>>Using what self-referencing criteria? Someone with out any
>>preconceptions might disagree.
>
>
> What if we use the criterea of foods that are most desired by gourmets
> around the world?
>
>
>>
>>jim

And who determines who is a gourmet and what standards are used to
judge? Betting it would be, in your clear cut preference, Euro-French.
Again, an ethnocentric post, begging your desired answer.


jim



jim

hahabogus wrote:
> (Colin Reed) wrote in
> om:
>
>
(Bradwell Jackson) wrote in message
e.com>...
>>
>>>"Colin Reed" > wrote in message
>...
>>>
>>>>This is quite a narrow view of French cuisine. You actually find
>>>>more cream, butter, eggs, etc in Swiss and German cooking. The
>>>>heavy use of dairy tends to happen in Normandy, but not in the
>>>>south. Provence is all about freshness and loads of fresh herbs.
>>>
>>>This sounds like Tuscan food. Is it true that the French stole their
>>>ideas from the Italians?
>>>
>>>Brad
>>>
>>
>>Not really. Remember that the tomatoes and peppers now prevalent in
>>both Tuscan and Provencal cooking are not indigenous to Europe, and so
>>they were not really stolen one from the other. In fact going further
>>back in history, Italy was once partially occupied by the Gauls who,
>>with a liking for Pork, taught the Italians pig husbandry. Pork is
>>now of course very popular in Italy.
>>The use of simple, fresh produce with lots of herbs is now really
>>indicative of all of the countries on the Mediterranean. It comes in
>>French, Italian, Spanish and Greek cuisine to name but a few.
>>
>>Colin
>>
>
>
> Determining the best cooking is like determining which is the best religon.
> There is no true winner.
> Everything is in the eye of the beholder.
>
Yet some are just louder and more opinionated about their choices.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

Julia Altshuler > wrote in message news:<z_4yc.6255$2i5.3685@attbi_s52>...
> Bradwell Jackson wrote:
>
> > No, actually I'm just curious about cuisine and I like to learn. I
> > like learning for the sake of learning, and I don't even need a grade
> > to make the experience enjoyable.
>
>
> If that's the case, start with a question, not an outrageous statement.

Is is outrageous to say that French cooking is the premier cooking of
the world?

> The latter ends up sounding more like a gambit to get others to do
> your homework for you.

How can I find out your opinion by doing homework?

Also, google and the public library are better
> places for that sort of information. Usenet is a great place for
> meeting people and getting their opinions. For fact, you need a better
> source. Afterall, any of us here might be biased, crazy or stupid. We
> might assert something, and it might not be true.

If you have an opinion that others want to hear, what's wrong with
that?
>
>
> In order to answer the question about cuisines that are clearly more
> preferred by gourmets around the world, you'd need a clear definition of
> gourmet.

There is a phenomenon called the "new theory of relativiy". It is
related to a previous term: "cultural relativism". The new theory of
relativity states that everything is relative, so there is no use
talking about anything. I could define what gourmet means, but then
you could ask me to define my definition. *That*, to me, is circular
reasoning. This is why I am asking people instead of looking in
books. I want to hear the opinions of others, not some mathematical
fact.

Otherwise the logic gets circular: Gourmets around the world
> prefer French cuisine. Therefore French cuisine is the best. How do we
> know those folks are gourmets? Because they like French cuisine!
> Unsophisticated palates prefer Gambian cuisine which we know is inferior
> because unsophisticated palates prefer it. See what I mean?
>
>
> --Lia

> > What if we use the criterea of foods that are most desired by gourmets
> > around the world?
> >
> >
> >>
> >>jim
>
> And who determines who is a gourmet and what standards are used to
> judge? Betting it would be, in your clear cut preference, Euro-French.
> Again, an ethnocentric post, begging your desired answer.

I don't think I said I prefer European cooking. I am interested in
getting the opinions of people who know about this topic, because this
topic interests me. We could just say that everyone in this newgroup
is a gourmet and get just as interesting opinions as any other group,
I'm sure.
>
>

Tony Walton > wrote in message >...
> On 2004-06-09 20:55:08 +0100, (Bradwell
> Jackson) said:
>
> > Julian Vrieslander > wrote in
> > message
> > >...
> In
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> "kilikini" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Let's take a poll on what people think the current ethnic food trend is. I
> >>> say it's Indo-Asian.
> >>
> >> According to an article in the NYT a few weeks ago, the latest hot
> >> trend is Spanish cuisine.
> >
> > Is Spanish cuisine descended from French cuisine?
>
> This sort of implies that French cooking is the "ur-cuisine" from which
> others sprang. And that's obvious nonsense.
>
> It's unlikely that the cuisine of Southern Spain is related to that of
> Normandy.
> It's likely that the cuisine of the Spanish Basque Country is related
> to that of south-western France.
>
> You Are The Ghost Of Escoffier And I Claim My Five Euros.

I'd like to thank you for the compliment, though the only thing I can
cook is Ramen Noodles. Also, I can't even claim to know what this
last sentence *means* :-)

Tony Walton > wrote in message >...
> On 2004-06-09 21:03:22 +0100, (Bradwell
> Jackson) said:
>
> > Tony Walton > wrote in message
> > >...
> >> On 2004-06-08 18:03:10 +0100, (Bradwell
> >> Jackson) said:
> >>
> >>> Is French cooking still the premier cooking in the world?
> >>
> >> This depends entirely on what you mean by "the premier cooking in the world".
> >>
> >> What do you mean by "the premier cooking in the world"?
> >
> > The food most desired by gourmets in the world.
>
>
> .. which is purely a subjective decision. I'm beginning tothink you're
> trolling, Bradley.

Then aren't you loading the deck in your favour? Isn't *everything*
subjective. Isn't it true that I can't even prove that you *exist*, a
la Descartes? Can't we just have a fun conversation without insisting
on defining everything?

On 2004-06-12 19:27:47 +0100, (Bradwell
Jackson) said:

> Tony Walton > wrote in message
> >...
>>
>>
>> .. which is purely a subjective decision. I'm beginning tothink you're
>> trolling, Bradley.
>
> Then aren't you loading the deck in your favour? Isn't *everything*
> subjective. Isn't it true that I can't even prove that you *exist*, a
> la Descartes? Can't we just have a fun conversation without insisting
> on defining everything?

Your earlier posts were classic troll material. Make a one-line closed
assertion, and follow it up with further (and frankly more and more
contentious) one-liners which simply repeat your initial assertion.
Now you're invoking Descartes...

I'm not sure about what you mean by "loading the deck in my favour" -
whether food is enjoyable or not *is* subjective - there is simply no
objective criterion by which one style of cooking can be classified as
"premier". This isn't moral relativism, it's fact. In what way do you
suggest that a dish of escargots `å'lail is "better" than a dish of
caracoles con frjoles colorados?

Apologies for getting your name wrong, by the way!

--
Tony

In rec.food.cooking, Bradwell Jackson > wrote:

> Is is outrageous to say that French cooking is the premier cooking of
> the world?

Please define "outrageous" and "premier".


> There is a phenomenon called the "new theory of relativiy". It is
> related to a previous term: "cultural relativism". The new theory of
> relativity states that everything is relative, so there is no use
> talking about anything. I could define what gourmet means, but then
> you could ask me to define my definition. *That*, to me, is circular
> reasoning.

Please define "circular reasoning".

--
....I'm an air-conditioned gypsy...

- The Who

>The French taught the world how to cook

Be that as it may, the Spanish taught the French how to cook.

Bradwell Jackson > wrote:
> Is French cooking still the premier cooking in the world?

The premier cooking in the world in my opinion is my cooking. Why? It
satisfies me, supplies the nutrients I need, and the price can't be beat.

Bradwell Jackson > wrote:

> Wouldn't it be fair to say that French cuisine is more sophisticated
> than that of Gambia, for example?

Sophisticated does not mean better.

On 2004-06-13 01:46:47 +0100, (WardNA) said:

>> The French taught the world how to cook
>
> Be that as it may, the Spanish taught the French how to cook.

Ah, but the Spanish in their turn learnt from Mrs Balbir Singh.

--
Tony

Tony Walton wrote:
> On 2004-06-13 01:46:47 +0100, (WardNA) said:
>
>>> The French taught the world how to cook
>>
>>
>> Be that as it may, the Spanish taught the French how to cook.
>
>
> Ah, but the Spanish in their turn learnt from Mrs Balbir Singh.
>

And all of them owe their thanks to some dumb caveman that learned you
could cook meat on a stick over fire. Everything else is simply refinement.


jim