In article >, Andy <q>
wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > They don't go outside and play, eat dirt
>
>
> I remember grandma say something like "you have to eat a pound of dirt
> before you die."
>
> Andy

<lol>!!!

And live longer for it I'll bet!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

> wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:53:52 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
> wrote:
> t tell.
>>
>>Because some kid might have a peanut allergy that will prove to be lethal.
>
> Exactly what I expected. Truly sad. OK so that rates a ban of peanut
> butter? ? I
> don't think so. *You* have serious food allergies then *you* need to bring
> your
> lunch/food from *home* to ensure your needs/safety. Also you should have
> in your
> possession and know the use of an epi pen if they are that serious.
>
> The needs of a few do not outweigh the needs of the many.

(laugh) Don't look at me, it's just what I said when this subject came up
the last time. I wondered what was going to happen when they get out
into the real world and try telling people, no peanut products allowed in
the building. Some of them cannot even be around peanuts, how are they
going to do grocery shopping?

I feel badly for people with allergies that bad, it's a shame.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> (laugh) Don't look at me, it's just what I said when this subject came up
> the last time. I wondered what was going to happen when they get out
> into the real world and try telling people, no peanut products allowed in
> the building. Some of them cannot even be around peanuts, how are they
> going to do grocery shopping?


Remember that old John Travolta movie, _The Boy In The Plastic Bubble_...???

--
Best
Greg

Nancy Young wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:53:52 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
> > wrote:
> > t tell.
> >>
> >>Because some kid might have a peanut allergy that will prove to be lethal.
> >
> > Exactly what I expected. Truly sad. OK so that rates a ban of peanut
> > butter? ? I
> > don't think so. *You* have serious food allergies then *you* need to bring
> > your
> > lunch/food from *home* to ensure your needs/safety. Also you should have
> > in your
> > possession and know the use of an epi pen if they are that serious.
> >
> > The needs of a few do not outweigh the needs of the many.
>
> (laugh) Don't look at me, it's just what I said when this subject came up
> the last time. I wondered what was going to happen when they get out
> into the real world and try telling people, no peanut products allowed in
> the building. Some of them cannot even be around peanuts, how are they
> going to do grocery shopping?
>
> I feel badly for people with allergies that bad, it's a shame.
>
> nancy

When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
legumes such as peas. It's only been in recent years that you've
really started hearing about the problem. I did read somewhere that if
a nursing mother eats a lot of peanut butter she can give a peanut
allergy to her baby. Luckily I was born during the time when formula
was the baby food of choice.

In article .com>,
"djs0302" > wrote:


> When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
> incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
> peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
> kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
> is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
> legumes such as peas. It's only been in recent years that you've
> really started hearing about the problem. I did read somewhere that if
> a nursing mother eats a lot of peanut butter she can give a peanut
> allergy to her baby. Luckily I was born during the time when formula
> was the baby food of choice.

Many years ago our son died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome). A
surprising number of babies die from this every year. We did some
reading about it, and it was reported that the frequency was decreasing.
Why was that? Because SIDS just means that they don't know why the baby
died, it just did. As medicine advanced, they could pinpoint the exact
cause of death.

It could be that just as many kids died of peanut allergies in years
past, but nobody knew the cause of death. I believe the reason given
for death for those no longer babies is "natural causes", when they
don't know why the heck the person died. Just my theory.

On Tue 20 Sep 2005 10:07:42p, Dan Abel wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> In article .com>,
> "djs0302" > wrote:
>
>
>> When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
>> incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
>> peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
>> kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
>> is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
>> legumes such as peas. It's only been in recent years that you've
>> really started hearing about the problem. I did read somewhere that if
>> a nursing mother eats a lot of peanut butter she can give a peanut
>> allergy to her baby. Luckily I was born during the time when formula
>> was the baby food of choice.
>
> Many years ago our son died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome). A
> surprising number of babies die from this every year. We did some
> reading about it, and it was reported that the frequency was decreasing.
> Why was that? Because SIDS just means that they don't know why the baby
> died, it just did. As medicine advanced, they could pinpoint the exact
> cause of death.

I'm very sorry for your loss, Dan. Losing a child has to be one of the
most heartbreaking experiences anyone can have.

> It could be that just as many kids died of peanut allergies in years
> past, but nobody knew the cause of death. I believe the reason given
> for death for those no longer babies is "natural causes", when they
> don't know why the heck the person died. Just my theory.

I certainly don't deny the existence of peanut allergies, but it seems to
have gotten to the point where some people think peanuts should be on a
controlled substance list.

What was the recent story, I'm not sure I know all the details, about the
guy who was traveling 1st class on a plane and insisted that absolutely no
one on the entire plane be given peanuts to eat. That's utterly
rediculous! If his sensitivity was that great, he should have arranged
other transporation for himself rather than insinuating his "problem" on
everyone else.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Not all people are annoying. Some are dead.

djs0302 wrote:
> When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
> incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
> peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
> kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
> is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
> legumes such as peas.

Not necesarily. Peanut agglutinin is very specific in its
antigenicity. While some people may cross-react, most people will not.

-L.

Dan Abel wrote:
>
> Many years ago our son died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome).

Wow - I am really sorry to hear that. I can't imagine a loss more
heartbreaking.

> A
> surprising number of babies die from this every year. We did some
> reading about it, and it was reported that the frequency was decreasing.
> Why was that? Because SIDS just means that they don't know why the baby
> died, it just did. As medicine advanced, they could pinpoint the exact
> cause of death.

It's not just that the deaths are being attributed to things other than
SIDS, though (if that's what you are inferring).

They are finding reasons why SIDS happens - smoking in the home and
laying the baby face-down are two factors that are known to be linked
to SIDS deaths, for example. People are now better able to prevent
SIDS.

>
> It could be that just as many kids died of peanut allergies in years
> past, but nobody knew the cause of death.

But it would still be anaphylaxis, which is pretty easy to spot.

> I believe the reason given
> for death for those no longer babies is "natural causes", when they
> don't know why the heck the person died. Just my theory.

There is a category called "unknown cause", IIRC. In a lot of cases,
they just guess, if there is no autopsy.

-L.

"Katherine" > wrote:

-snip-
>I love that! The crumbled meat, that is. Not allowed to have peanut butter
>in school these days.


Our school, in the mid-fifties, early sixties, put the peanutbutter
right in the meatloaf. It was ghastly, but it held things
together and used up the federally subsidized peanuts.

And back to the original post-- I always use a large, low, casserole
dish & make a roundish loaf. I always make it twice as big as
needed & eat my meatloaf sandwiches with Hellmans *and* catsup. [and
a slice of onion]

Jim

I am allergic to peanuts but not legumes. I love beans and use them a lot.


> Not necesarily. Peanut agglutinin is very specific in its
> antigenicity. While some people may cross-react, most people will not.
>
> -L.
>

> When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
> incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
> peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
> kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
> is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
> legumes such as peas. It's only been in recent years that you've
> really started hearing about the problem. I did read somewhere that if
> a nursing mother eats a lot of peanut butter she can give a peanut
> allergy to her baby. Luckily I was born during the time when formula
> was the baby food of choice.

It is in fact on the increase. They would have noticed if people were
dropping dead of anaphylaxis in school. Not only are there more now,
but the ones that pop up are worse. They are not sure why. The
hygiene hypothesis is one theory - it says we are so clean now that our
immune systems malfunction and attack the self or harmless substances
(peanuts, for example.) There is also the environmental theory. There
is more asthma too - both are autoimmune condtions - and the air and
water and food quality could have a lot to do with it. It would bring
on the condition in those genetically predisposed. They are canaries
in the well, so to speak, for the rest of us.

As for seeking attention: on peanut allergy boards there are tons of
posts in which parents of the peanut allergic agonize over being
introverts and/or shy and how difficult it is for them to constantly
have to speak up to protect their kids from the peanuts that are
everywhere, especially in gradeschool. In fact, because both
introversion and allergies are more prevalent among the HighQ
community, I would venture that you would find more allergies among the
introverted (and with other traits like myopia that also travel with
giftedness) in many cases. They do NOT seek attention.

Most would gladly give up this horrible condition that can kill their
children and that is so hard to control. Very few other conditions are
both so lethal while at the same time so doubted and derided and which
garner so little sympathy or assistance. Peanut allergic parents are
on their own and live in fear for their children (1/44,000 of a peanut
can kill for severe allergies) and are laughed at; are assumed crazy,
overprotective, and/or hypochondriacs; and are even the victims of
bullying (people purposely exposing their children to peanuts, leaving
peanut products on the doorstep, and that sort of thing.)
It also gets very tiring to hear how more important a peanut butter
sandwich for 5 meals out of the week are than their own children's
lives.

The ADA (Americans with disabilities act) guarantees the severely food
allergic equal access to education.

Also, it is actually quite rare to be allergic to peanuts and at the
same time, other types of legumes.

The jury is out about breastfeeding vs. formula, but it is thought that
early 'soy' exposure hurts when it comes to preventing food allergies.
There are also many reports that breastfeeding *protects* against
developing food allergies.

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 04:55:42a, FrugalEnvy wrote in rec.food.cooking:

<snippage>

> Most would gladly give up this horrible condition that can kill their
> children and that is so hard to control. Very few other conditions are
> both so lethal while at the same time so doubted and derided and which
> garner so little sympathy or assistance. Peanut allergic parents are
> on their own and live in fear for their children (1/44,000 of a peanut
> can kill for severe allergies) and are laughed at; are assumed crazy,
> overprotective, and/or hypochondriacs; and are even the victims of
> bullying (people purposely exposing their children to peanuts, leaving
> peanut products on the doorstep, and that sort of thing.)
> It also gets very tiring to hear how more important a peanut butter
> sandwich for 5 meals out of the week are than their own children's
> lives.
>
> The ADA (Americans with disabilities act) guarantees the severely food
> allergic equal access to education.

Then perhaps we should have both peanut and peanut-free schools, or at
least division in cafeterias. And maybe that should carry over to
restaurants and theaters. There's no way in hell I would deny others or
myself of eating peanuts just because someone on the other side of the room
is allergic. That's bull! We're already denied enough things because
*some* people either can't or don't want to be exposed. If I have a
problem with something, I deal with it on my own terms. Their
"disability" is not my responsibility. Let them seek their own solace.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Not all people are annoying. Some are dead.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 20 Sep 2005 10:07:42p, Dan Abel wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>> In article .com>,
>> "djs0302" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
>>> incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter.
>>
>> Many years ago our son died of SIDS (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome).
>> A surprising number of babies die from this every year.
>
> I'm very sorry for your loss, Dan. Losing a child has to be one of
> the most heartbreaking experiences anyone can have.
>
I, too, am very sorry for Dan's loss. I cannot comprehend such a thing.

>
> What was the recent story, I'm not sure I know all the details, about
> the guy who was traveling 1st class on a plane and insisted that
> absolutely no one on the entire plane be given peanuts to eat.
> That's utterly rediculous! If his sensitivity was that great, he
> should have arranged other transporation for himself rather than
> insinuating his "problem" on everyone else.

I didn't think they still gave out peanuts on planes. Whenever I fly, which
is a heck of a lot in the last couple of years, you get a bag of pretzels or
a granola bar. What if someone is allergic to the oats used in granola? Or
has a sensitivity to flour used in the pretzels? At some point a person has
to be responsible for themselves and not expect the world to kow-tow just
because they have an allergy. A person with such severe allergies should
carry an epi-pen. My 2 cents.

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...

| I didn't think they still gave out peanuts on planes. Whenever I fly,
which
| is a heck of a lot in the last couple of years, you get a bag of pretzels
or
| a granola bar. What if someone is allergic to the oats used in granola?
Or
| has a sensitivity to flour used in the pretzels? At some point a person
has
| to be responsible for themselves and not expect the world to kow-tow just
| because they have an allergy. A person with such severe allergies should
| carry an epi-pen. My 2 cents.

Peanut allergy is one of the few I know of where the allergic person can die
because YOU ate peanuts. Just the opening of bags of peanuts on a plane can
trigger an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not aware of anyone ever dying
because someone else ate wheat.

The epi-pen is a stop-gap measure to buy time while you haul ass to the
nearest ER. Depending on the flight, an ER may not be accessible in enough
time for the epi-pen to be worth anything. All it would do is prolong
death.

FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have taken the
attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your problem, not
ours.

Gabby

FrugalEnvy wrote:
> > When I was going to grade school in the 70's you never heard one
> > incident of a kid being allergic to peanut butter. While some of these
> > peanut allergies actually do occur I think a lot of parents say their
> > kids have a peanut allergy because they want the attention. If someone
> > is truly allergic to peanuts then they should also be allergic other
> > legumes such as peas. It's only been in recent years that you've
> > really started hearing about the problem. I did read somewhere that if
> > a nursing mother eats a lot of peanut butter she can give a peanut
> > allergy to her baby. Luckily I was born during the time when formula
> > was the baby food of choice.
>
> It is in fact on the increase. They would have noticed if people were
> dropping dead of anaphylaxis in school. Not only are there more now,
> but the ones that pop up are worse. They are not sure why. The
> hygiene hypothesis is one theory - it says we are so clean now that our
> immune systems malfunction and attack the self or harmless substances
> (peanuts, for example.) There is also the environmental theory. There
> is more asthma too - both are autoimmune condtions - and the air and
> water and food quality could have a lot to do with it. It would bring
> on the condition in those genetically predisposed. They are canaries
> in the well, so to speak, for the rest of us.
>
> As for seeking attention: on peanut allergy boards there are tons of
> posts in which parents of the peanut allergic agonize over being
> introverts and/or shy and how difficult it is for them to constantly
> have to speak up to protect their kids from the peanuts that are
> everywhere, especially in gradeschool. In fact, because both
> introversion and allergies are more prevalent among the HighQ
> community, I would venture that you would find more allergies among the
> introverted (and with other traits like myopia that also travel with
> giftedness) in many cases. They do NOT seek attention.
>
> Most would gladly give up this horrible condition that can kill their
> children and that is so hard to control. Very few other conditions are
> both so lethal while at the same time so doubted and derided and which
> garner so little sympathy or assistance. Peanut allergic parents are
> on their own and live in fear for their children (1/44,000 of a peanut
> can kill for severe allergies) and are laughed at; are assumed crazy,
> overprotective, and/or hypochondriacs; and are even the victims of
> bullying (people purposely exposing their children to peanuts, leaving
> peanut products on the doorstep, and that sort of thing.)
> It also gets very tiring to hear how more important a peanut butter
> sandwich for 5 meals out of the week are than their own children's
> lives.
>
> The ADA (Americans with disabilities act) guarantees the severely food
> allergic equal access to education.
>
> Also, it is actually quite rare to be allergic to peanuts and at the
> same time, other types of legumes.
>
> The jury is out about breastfeeding vs. formula, but it is thought that
> early 'soy' exposure hurts when it comes to preventing food allergies.
> There are also many reports that breastfeeding *protects* against
> developing food allergies.

Interesting.
"They are canaries in the well, so to speak, for the rest of us."
I don't recall hearing about canaries in the well. Used to be in the
mining business, and they used to use canaries underground to detect
lethal gases. When and where were they used in wells?

Gabby wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I didn't think they still gave out peanuts on planes. Whenever I
>> fly, which is a heck of a lot in the last couple of years, you get a
>> bag of pretzels or a granola bar. What if someone is allergic to
>> the oats used in granola? Or has a sensitivity to flour used in the
>> pretzels? At some point a person has to be responsible for
>> themselves and not expect the world to kow-tow just because they
>> have an allergy. A person with such severe allergies should carry
>> an epi-pen. My 2 cents.
>
> Peanut allergy is one of the few I know of where the allergic person
> can die because YOU ate peanuts. Just the opening of bags of peanuts
> on a plane can trigger an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not aware of
> anyone ever dying because someone else ate wheat.
>
> The epi-pen is a stop-gap measure to buy time while you haul ass to
> the nearest ER. Depending on the flight, an ER may not be accessible
> in enough time for the epi-pen to be worth anything. All it would do
> is prolong death.
>
> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
> taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
> problem, not ours.
>
> Gabby

I generally fly Northwest (although with the bankruptcy that will probably
stop) or Delta. I've never been offered peanuts on any of their flights.
Call me insensitive, but I still don't believe it is the airlines
responsibility to worry about a single customer possibly having a food
allergy. You get 150 people on a plane and they are supposed to change
their policy because they might have one passenger with a peanut allergy?
You know that's not how big business works.

And a lot of people bring their own snacks on the plane with them; I know I
do (usually cheese crackers, but sometimes evey PB crackers!). What are
they supposed to do, start confiscating anything with peanuts? I, for one,
would protest.

I also do not remember anyone having peanut allergies when I was a kid in
the 1960's. I took a PB sandwich for lunch every day and no one ever got
ill from being around me while I was eating it. I can't comment on why this
has become so prevalent; I can only comment on personal experience which is
this: no child around me ever had an allergic reaction when I was eating my
lunch.

Jill

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 08:35:14a, Gabby wrote in rec.food.cooking:

<SNIP>

> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have taken the
> attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your problem, not
> ours.
>

And, IMNSHO, as it should be.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 10:10:12a, jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Gabby wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> I didn't think they still gave out peanuts on planes. Whenever I
>>> fly, which is a heck of a lot in the last couple of years, you get a
>>> bag of pretzels or a granola bar. What if someone is allergic to
>>> the oats used in granola? Or has a sensitivity to flour used in the
>>> pretzels? At some point a person has to be responsible for
>>> themselves and not expect the world to kow-tow just because they
>>> have an allergy. A person with such severe allergies should carry an
>>> epi-pen. My 2 cents.
>>
>> Peanut allergy is one of the few I know of where the allergic person
>> can die because YOU ate peanuts. Just the opening of bags of peanuts
>> on a plane can trigger an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not aware of
>> anyone ever dying because someone else ate wheat.
>>
>> The epi-pen is a stop-gap measure to buy time while you haul ass to
>> the nearest ER. Depending on the flight, an ER may not be accessible
>> in enough time for the epi-pen to be worth anything. All it would do
>> is prolong death.
>>
>> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
>> taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
>> problem, not ours.
>>
>> Gabby
>
> I generally fly Northwest (although with the bankruptcy that will
> probably stop) or Delta. I've never been offered peanuts on any of
> their flights. Call me insensitive, but I still don't believe it is the
> airlines responsibility to worry about a single customer possibly having
> a food allergy. You get 150 people on a plane and they are supposed to
> change their policy because they might have one passenger with a peanut
> allergy? You know that's not how big business works.
>
> And a lot of people bring their own snacks on the plane with them; I
> know I do (usually cheese crackers, but sometimes evey PB crackers!).
> What are they supposed to do, start confiscating anything with peanuts?
> I, for one, would protest.
>
> I also do not remember anyone having peanut allergies when I was a kid
> in the 1960's. I took a PB sandwich for lunch every day and no one ever
> got ill from being around me while I was eating it. I can't comment on
> why this has become so prevalent; I can only comment on personal
> experience which is this: no child around me ever had an allergic
> reaction when I was eating my lunch.
>
> Jill
>
>
>

DITTO!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Fri 23 Sep 2005 10:10:12a, jmcquown wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>
>>Gabby wrote:
>>
>>>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>I didn't think they still gave out peanuts on planes. Whenever I
>>>>fly, which is a heck of a lot in the last couple of years, you get a
>>>>bag of pretzels or a granola bar. What if someone is allergic to
>>>>the oats used in granola? Or has a sensitivity to flour used in the
>>>>pretzels? At some point a person has to be responsible for
>>>>themselves and not expect the world to kow-tow just because they
>>>>have an allergy. A person with such severe allergies should carry an
>>>>epi-pen. My 2 cents.
>>>
>>>Peanut allergy is one of the few I know of where the allergic person
>>>can die because YOU ate peanuts. Just the opening of bags of peanuts
>>>on a plane can trigger an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not aware of
>>>anyone ever dying because someone else ate wheat.
>>>
>>>The epi-pen is a stop-gap measure to buy time while you haul ass to
>>>the nearest ER. Depending on the flight, an ER may not be accessible
>>>in enough time for the epi-pen to be worth anything. All it would do
>>>is prolong death.
>>>
>>>FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
>>>taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
>>>problem, not ours.
>>>
>>>Gabby
>>
>>I generally fly Northwest (although with the bankruptcy that will
>>probably stop) or Delta. I've never been offered peanuts on any of
>>their flights. Call me insensitive, but I still don't believe it is the
>>airlines responsibility to worry about a single customer possibly having
>>a food allergy. You get 150 people on a plane and they are supposed to
>>change their policy because they might have one passenger with a peanut
>>allergy? You know that's not how big business works.
>>
>>And a lot of people bring their own snacks on the plane with them; I
>>know I do (usually cheese crackers, but sometimes evey PB crackers!).
>>What are they supposed to do, start confiscating anything with peanuts?
>>I, for one, would protest.
>>
>>I also do not remember anyone having peanut allergies when I was a kid
>>in the 1960's. I took a PB sandwich for lunch every day and no one ever
>>got ill from being around me while I was eating it. I can't comment on
>>why this has become so prevalent; I can only comment on personal
>>experience which is this: no child around me ever had an allergic
>>reaction when I was eating my lunch.
>>
>>Jill
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> DITTO!
>
You might not say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones or
yourself and you had to deal with the aftermath. No you would likely be
the first one pointing a finger or filing a wrongful death lawsuit.
Schools and airlines have liability issues. That means if something so
simple as removing peanuts from their snacks can help prevent lawsuits
or the death of an individual it is much cheaper for them to remove the
snack. I have severe asthma and have severe allergies both
life-threatening and I am lactose intolerant. I am a mature responsible
adult who takes a pro-active role in maintaining my health and I carry
an epi-pen. This is why I don't like eating out at restaurants or
anywhere I haven't done the cooking. I am *very* specific in asking if
certain ingredients are in a dish and when in doubt I will not eat the
dish. I learned the hard way after a near death experience. I had
specifically asked if a certain ingredient was in the dish and the
relative said no. One bite and I ended up in the emergency department
being intubated. Have you ever had that done? It really isn't
pleasant! This relative had actually thought I was joking and had
included the ingredient just to see if anything would happen. I've had
the same thing happen with the lactose problem where someone will say no
there are no milk products but there are. It kind of ruins a meal when
you are desperately running for a restroom! Thankfully lactaid helps
with that type of inconsiderate action. You see ignorant and
inconsiderate people who fail to realize this could actually cause
someone's death are the real ones who cause the problem. People with
the problem know how to avoid it but they are no match for such
ignorance. If I as a grown adult could have fallen for such trickery
how can a little kid avoid it? If I as an adult can do whatever it
takes to prevent another's death, I will do it. Are peanuts that big of
a deal to you that you would risk someone else's life? Surely you could
enjoy peanuts in your own home and even out but not where kids who may
be highly allergic to them could die before help got there and not in
enclosed spaces like airplanes. Wouldn't you just feel wonderful for
enjoying your peanuts on a plane while someone takes their final breath.
Yes I'm being hard but I've been there and until you have you have no
idea how it feels.

Obfood: I'm canning applesauce, maple apple jam, and salsa today. I'm
making another batch of yogurt today. I'm not sure what I'm doing for
dinner yet. We have left-over chili and we have a very nice looking
side of ribs. A lot will depend on the weather as it does look like
there may be storms in the area.

~patches~ > wrote in
:


>>>
>>>>"jmcquown" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>>
>>>
>>>I also do not remember anyone having peanut allergies when I was a
>>>kid in the 1960's. I took a PB sandwich for lunch every day and no
>>>one ever got ill from being around me while I was eating it. I can't
>>>comment on why this has become so prevalent; I can only comment on
>>>personal experience which is this: no child around me ever had an
>>>allergic reaction when I was eating my lunch.
>>>
>>>Jill
>>>

> You might not say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones or
> yourself and you had to deal with the aftermath. No you would likely
> be the first one pointing a finger or filing a wrongful death lawsuit.
> Schools and airlines have liability issues.

This was highlighted by a case which occurred here, where a 13 year old
boy died after eating peanut butter at a school camp. A teacher had been
told he could not eat peanuts, but had not passed this information on.
Another teacher included eating peanut butter in a game. The boy knew he
wasn't supposed to eat peanuts, but didn't know it could kill him. Being
a typical kid, he didn't want to not take part in the game. The
following links are some of the news stories after the recent coroner's
inquest (the death took place a few years ago - I remember seeing
reports on the news at the time). I think the parents should also take
some responsibility for not educating themselves and their son enough
about the risks, but the school also bears some responsibility for their
actions or lack of them.


http://tinyurl.com/a3y62

http://tinyurl.com/8uodb

http://tinyurl.com/9jkzk

Rhonda Anderson
Cranebrook, NSW, Australia

On 23 Sep 2005 20:06:42 +0200, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> On Fri 23 Sep 2005 08:35:14a, Gabby wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
><SNIP>
>
>> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have taken the
>> attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your problem, not
>> ours.
>>
>
> And, IMNSHO, as it should be.


I had a dear friend unexpectedly develop an allergy to a common OTC
medication she'd taken before many times with no difficulty. Sometimes a
sensitivity builds up, I guess. Whatever the reason, her face swelled up so
much she couldn't see out of one eye, and had to be rushed to the ER when her
esophagus started to close up. Luckily for her, she has more ability to
control her allergic reactions than people with severe peanut allergies. Even
so, if what happened to her had occurred on a plane... Well, she might not
have had enough time, that's all.

I always think... if it were someone you loved in a situation like
that, you'd want other people to be careful, too. And maybe even if it
_wasn't_ their problem, you'd like it if they took your loved one's needs
into consideration since it might be a matter of life and death. And if the
airlines want to try and meet people with severe allergies halfway (and save
themselves from lawsuits to boot) then power to them.

Ariane

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 11:44:31a, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> You might not say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones or
> yourself and you had to deal with the aftermath. No you would likely be
> the first one pointing a finger or filing a wrongful death lawsuit.
>

No, with the knowledge that I or one of my loved ones had such a problem, I
would make damned sure that I didn't put us in harm's way. If it meant I
couldn't fly, then I wouldn't. This kind of crap is getting way too far out
of hand.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Not all people are annoying. Some are dead.

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 05:27:07p, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 23 Sep 2005 20:06:42 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>> On Fri 23 Sep 2005 08:35:14a, Gabby wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>><SNIP>
>>
>>> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
>>> taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
>>> problem, not ours.
>>>
>>
>> And, IMNSHO, as it should be.
>
>
> I had a dear friend unexpectedly develop an allergy to a common
> OTC
> medication she'd taken before many times with no difficulty. Sometimes
> a sensitivity builds up, I guess. Whatever the reason, her face swelled
> up so much she couldn't see out of one eye, and had to be rushed to the
> ER when her esophagus started to close up. Luckily for her, she has
> more ability to control her allergic reactions than people with severe
> peanut allergies. Even so, if what happened to her had occurred on a
> plane... Well, she might not have had enough time, that's all.
>
> I always think... if it were someone you loved in a situation like
> that, you'd want other people to be careful, too. And maybe even if it
> _wasn't_ their problem, you'd like it if they took your loved one's
> needs into consideration since it might be a matter of life and death.
> And if the airlines want to try and meet people with severe allergies
> halfway (and save themselves from lawsuits to boot) then power to them.
>
> Ariane

I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What has
been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them to
their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole trip.
Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own to avoid the
problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else to do it for them
by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Not all people are annoying. Some are dead.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Fri 23 Sep 2005 05:27:07p, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>
>>On 23 Sep 2005 20:06:42 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri 23 Sep 2005 08:35:14a, Gabby wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>
>>><SNIP>
>>>
>>>>FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
>>>>taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
>>>>problem, not ours.
>>>>
>>>
>>>And, IMNSHO, as it should be.
>>
>>
>> I had a dear friend unexpectedly develop an allergy to a common
>> OTC
>>medication she'd taken before many times with no difficulty. Sometimes
>>a sensitivity builds up, I guess. Whatever the reason, her face swelled
>>up so much she couldn't see out of one eye, and had to be rushed to the
>>ER when her esophagus started to close up. Luckily for her, she has
>>more ability to control her allergic reactions than people with severe
>>peanut allergies. Even so, if what happened to her had occurred on a
>>plane... Well, she might not have had enough time, that's all.
>>
>> I always think... if it were someone you loved in a situation like
>>that, you'd want other people to be careful, too. And maybe even if it
>>_wasn't_ their problem, you'd like it if they took your loved one's
>>needs into consideration since it might be a matter of life and death.
>>And if the airlines want to try and meet people with severe allergies
>>halfway (and save themselves from lawsuits to boot) then power to them.
>>
>>Ariane
>
>
> I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What has
> been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them to
> their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole trip.
> Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own to avoid the
> problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else to do it for them
> by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!
>
Ok, have you considered an infant or toddler on board an airplane that
may have never been exposed to peanuts or peanut butter? Such children
do exist because I know for a fact mine didn't get any before school
age. In the case of non-exposure the first exposure to this type of
allergen could and in some cases has proven fatal to those highly
allergic even with no history of problems because there has been no
opportunity to see any type of a reaction without exposure. A child
cannot help themselves and if the adults aren't aware or in your case
simply don't care ... We are talking about people's lives here not some
toy! Oh and don't underestimate people with severe allergies. The vast
majority take full responsibility to avoid allergens that bother them.
They spend a lot of money on allergen proofing, special foods, and
medication. So don't tell me they take few measures of their own.

Obfood: If you suspect a food allergy keep a food diary. It will
really help your allergist pin point your problems. With each exposure
your reaction will worsen so avoidance is best.

On Fri 23 Sep 2005 07:52:00p, ~patches~ wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Fri 23 Sep 2005 05:27:07p, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>
>>>On 23 Sep 2005 20:06:42 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri 23 Sep 2005 08:35:14a, Gabby wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>>>
>>>><SNIP>
>>>>
>>>>>FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have
>>>>>taken the attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your
>>>>>problem, not ours.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And, IMNSHO, as it should be.
>>>
>>>
>>> I had a dear friend unexpectedly develop an allergy to a common
>>> OTC
>>>medication she'd taken before many times with no difficulty. Sometimes
>>>a sensitivity builds up, I guess. Whatever the reason, her face
>>>swelled up so much she couldn't see out of one eye, and had to be
>>>rushed to the ER when her esophagus started to close up. Luckily for
>>>her, she has more ability to control her allergic reactions than people
>>>with severe peanut allergies. Even so, if what happened to her had
>>>occurred on a plane... Well, she might not have had enough time,
>>>that's all.
>>>
>>> I always think... if it were someone you loved in a situation like
>>>that, you'd want other people to be careful, too. And maybe even if it
>>>_wasn't_ their problem, you'd like it if they took your loved one's
>>>needs into consideration since it might be a matter of life and death.
>>>And if the airlines want to try and meet people with severe allergies
>>>halfway (and save themselves from lawsuits to boot) then power to them.
>>>
>>>Ariane
>>
>>
>> I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What
>> has been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them
>> to their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole
>> trip. Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own
>> to avoid the problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else
>> to do it for them by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!
>>
> Ok, have you considered an infant or toddler on board an airplane that
> may have never been exposed to peanuts or peanut butter? Such children
> do exist because I know for a fact mine didn't get any before school
> age. In the case of non-exposure the first exposure to this type of
> allergen could and in some cases has proven fatal to those highly
> allergic even with no history of problems because there has been no
> opportunity to see any type of a reaction without exposure. A child
> cannot help themselves and if the adults aren't aware or in your case
> simply don't care ...

We are talking about people's lives here not some
> toy!

No, YOU are talking about a conundrum.

You cannot protect people from a condition they are totally unaware of.
There are too many possibilities.

I am highly and, potentially, fatally allergic to erythromycin. I was able
to take this medication for most of my life. The last time I took it I
nearly died. How would I have prevented this sudden life-threatening
reaction? By refusing to take any and all medications in the off-chance
that one of them might kill me?

Oh and don't underestimate people with severe allergies. The vast
> majority take full responsibility to avoid allergens that bother them.
> They spend a lot of money on allergen proofing, special foods, and
> medication. So don't tell me they take few measures of their own.

When someone boards an airplane an demands that the entire plane be devoid
of peanuts, they are forcing everyone else to take responsibility for their
problem. What about theaters? Should none of them sell candy containing
peanuts?

So you would obliterate peanuts from the face of the earth? How idiotic is
that? You cannot protect everyone from every possible or conceivable
allergen. There would be nothing left to eat, see, or smell.

You will NEVER convince me, nor I you. It's a pointless discussion. I'm
done.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

Dimitri wrote:
> "Cam" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > ~patches~ wrote:
> >> I'm just a little uspset with DH. After searching high and low in the
> >> kitchen I could not find my meatloaf pans. Apparently he tossed them
> >> thinking to surprise me with new ones not knowing I would be doing
> >> meatlaf before it got cold. Godblesshim, he always has an excuss to
> >> make himself look angelic Anyway, what I did was compromise. I used
> >> an extra large glass casserole pan figuring I could cut the meat loaf
> >> into squares. Since I wanted half plain and half with sauteed
> >> mushrooms, onions, and cheese I figured no problem. I thought of
> >> forming two loaves then decided to mush it all down in the pan then top
> >> one side with the extras. I must say things are coming out nicely and I
> >> may just use the casserole pan idea again. I like the idea of cutting
> >> the meatloaf into squares rather than slices and I can cook two kinds at
> >> once. It's cleaner and easier than meatloaf muffins and we never eat it
> >> cold anyway.
> >
> > I've got a second meatloaf discovery for you. It's good cold.
> >
> > Cam
>
> Nope - Better cold....
>
> A cold meatloaf sandwich - Must have Heinz ketchup on at least one of the bread
> slices.
>
> Dimitri

Cold meatloaf sandwich? You've got to be kidding me.

Take that slice of cold meatloaf and pan fry it in butter till it gets
a little crispy. A generous slathering of Best Foods mayonnaise, and a
single thin slice of Tillamook Jack. A touch of brown mustard if your
bold.

b.

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 01:22:31a, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> Dimitri wrote:
>> "Cam" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > ~patches~ wrote:
>> >> I'm just a little uspset with DH. After searching high and low in
>> >> the kitchen I could not find my meatloaf pans. Apparently he tossed
>> >> them thinking to surprise me with new ones not knowing I would be
>> >> doing meatlaf before it got cold. Godblesshim, he always has an
>> >> excuss to make himself look angelic Anyway, what I did was
>> >> compromise. I used an extra large glass casserole pan figuring I
>> >> could cut the meat loaf into squares. Since I wanted half plain and
>> >> half with sauteed mushrooms, onions, and cheese I figured no
>> >> problem. I thought of forming two loaves then decided to mush it
>> >> all down in the pan then top one side with the extras. I must say
>> >> things are coming out nicely and I may just use the casserole pan
>> >> idea again. I like the idea of cutting the meatloaf into squares
>> >> rather than slices and I can cook two kinds at once. It's cleaner
>> >> and easier than meatloaf muffins and we never eat it cold anyway.
>> >
>> > I've got a second meatloaf discovery for you. It's good cold.
>> >
>> > Cam
>>
>> Nope - Better cold....
>>
>> A cold meatloaf sandwich - Must have Heinz ketchup on at least one of
>> the bread slices.
>>
>> Dimitri
>
> Cold meatloaf sandwich? You've got to be kidding me.
>
> Take that slice of cold meatloaf and pan fry it in butter till it gets
> a little crispy. A generous slathering of Best Foods mayonnaise, and a
> single thin slice of Tillamook Jack. A touch of brown mustard if your
> bold.

Yep, a fried meatloaf sandwich is great, sans cheese but with the brown
mustard. But I like cold meatloaf sandwiches, too, straight out of the
fridge.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

In article >, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
[snip]
>
>So you would obliterate peanuts from the face of the earth? How idiotic is
>that?
[...]

Actually, this is one of the things that I find quite amusing in a
warped way, given modern concern over GM foods and such.

If someone was only now trying to introduce peanuts to Western cusine,
they would be banned. The same would apply to spuds (contain poison);
prawns and most other crustacea (similar allergic effects to peanuts);
mangoes (contain caustic sap); and ... and ... and. In fact we would
have a pretty boring menu today if the so-called precautionary
principle had been applied by our ancestors some millennia ago. :-)


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
snip
> ignorance. If I as a grown adult could have fallen for such trickery
> how can a little kid avoid it? If I as an adult can do whatever it
> takes to prevent another's death, I will do it. Are peanuts that big
> of a deal to you that you would risk someone else's life? Surely you
> could enjoy peanuts in your own home and even out but not where kids
> who may be highly allergic to them could die before help got there and
> not in enclosed spaces like airplanes. Wouldn't you just feel
> wonderful for enjoying your peanuts on a plane while someone takes
> their final breath. Yes I'm being hard but I've been there and until
> you have you have no idea how it feels.

You are not doing whatever it takes to avoid another's death. You are
doing something that reduces slightly the remote chance that someone will
die. If you drive your car there is a chance you could cause someone's
death. Better stay home.
You get the picture.

And I always figured airlines got rid of peanuts because pretzels were
cheaper. Same reason they got rid of magazines, food, and now pillows.
Once I got upgraded to first class and got peanuts again. :-)
>
> Obfood: I'm canning applesauce, maple apple jam, and salsa today. I'm
> making another batch of yogurt today. I'm not sure what I'm doing for
> dinner yet. We have left-over chili and we have a very nice looking
> side of ribs. A lot will depend on the weather as it does look like
> there may be storms in the area.

Better be careful with that canning. People have gotten sick from home
canned food. :-)

del

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 03:26:19a, Phred wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> In article >, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote: [snip]
>>
>>So you would obliterate peanuts from the face of the earth? How idiotic
>>is that?
> [...]
>
> Actually, this is one of the things that I find quite amusing in a
> warped way, given modern concern over GM foods and such.
>
> If someone was only now trying to introduce peanuts to Western cusine,
> they would be banned. The same would apply to spuds (contain poison);
> prawns and most other crustacea (similar allergic effects to peanuts);
> mangoes (contain caustic sap); and ... and ... and. In fact we would
> have a pretty boring menu today if the so-called precautionary
> principle had been applied by our ancestors some millennia ago. :-)
>
>
> Cheers, Phred.
>

My point exactly, Phred.

Cheers!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 09:13:58a, L, not -L wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> On 24-Sep-2005, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> When someone boards an airplane an demands that the entire plane be
>> devoid
>>
>> of peanuts, they are forcing everyone else to take responsibility for
>> their problem. What about theaters? Should none of them sell candy
>> containing peanuts?
>
> Don't forget, the guy who had the seat on the previous flight might have
> brought a bag of peanuts, or chips fried in peanut oil, on and munched -
> so we'll have to detox the seat and carpet after each use.
>
> Guess we should also set up screening stations to keep people from
> boarding if there is the smell of peanuts on their breath.
>

Exactly!

I'm reminded of a true story of two little girls whose exposure to sunlight
could rapidly kill them. I suppose everyone should live in the dark
because they have to.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 01:39:24p, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 24 Sep 2005 03:17:49 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>
>
>>No, with the knowledge that I or one of my loved ones had such a
>>problem, I would make damned sure that I didn't put us in harm's way.
>>If it meant I couldn't fly, then I wouldn't. This kind of crap is
>>getting way too far out of hand.
>
> Exactly.

Thank you!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 01:52:03p, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 24 Sep 2005 03:23:16 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>
>>I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What
>>has been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them
>>to their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole
>>trip. Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own to
>>avoid the problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else to
>>do it for them by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!
>
> Couldn't say it any better!

Thank you!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

On 24 Sep 2005 03:23:16 +0200, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What has
> been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them to
> their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole trip.
> Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own to avoid the
> problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else to do it for them
> by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!
>

I think accomodation should be made--within reason-- for people with
severe allergies. I'm not sure what you consider to be too much accomodation,
but if we're talking about relatively basic matter of not serving peanuts on
an airline flight, then I personally don't consider that to be outrageous.

Ariane

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 03:17:56p, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 24 Sep 2005 03:23:16 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>>
>> I understand your point. Meeting someone halfway is one thing. What
>> has been suggested is meeting them at their own door and escorting them
>> to their destination. I will not be made responsible for their whole
>> trip. Seems those who complain take few if any measures on their own
>> to avoid the problem or protect themselves. They expect everyone else
>> to do it for them by eliminating 100% of the cause. This is bullshit!
>>
>
> I think accomodation should be made--within reason-- for people
> with
> severe allergies. I'm not sure what you consider to be too much
> accomodation, but if we're talking about relatively basic matter of not
> serving peanuts on an airline flight, then I personally don't consider
> that to be outrageous.
>
> Ariane
>

As with most things, the key is "within reason" and its interpretation.
When such an accomodation affects 149 people out of 100, I personally feel
that's going too far. 'Course, my opinion never counts for much. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

On 25 Sep 2005 00:45:27 +0200, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> As with most things, the key is "within reason" and its interpretation.
> When such an accomodation affects 149 people out of 100, I personally feel
> that's going too far. 'Course, my opinion never counts for much. :-)

Hehe. You know that saying about opinions being like assholes... <g>

To me, it's also a matter of degree. If someone's got a severe enough
allergy they could die if exposed to peanuts, then for me that takes
precedence over even 300 peoples' rights to chow down on nasty ol' airplane
peanuts. It may never come to that, but if it did...

On a related note, I think someone else mentioned the downsizing of
airplane food. I've gotten packets of peanuts on flights within the last
5 years, but they're pathetic... maybe half a dozen measly peanuts, if that.
And once on a Southwest flight, each passenger received a 1"x2" cracker (I kid
you not), individually wrapped. I thought, "Why bother??" ;D

Ariane

L, not -L wrote:
> On 24-Sep-2005, Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> On Sat 24 Sep 2005 01:39:24p, wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>>
>>> On 24 Sep 2005 03:17:49 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> No, with the knowledge that I or one of my loved ones had such a
>>>> problem, I would make damned sure that I didn't put us in harm's
>>>> way.
>>>> If it meant I couldn't fly, then I wouldn't. This kind of crap is
>>>> getting way too far out of hand.
>>>
>>> Exactly.
>>
>> Thank you!
>
> Now, if we could just get banks to install height adjusting ATMs, I
> wouldn't have to get down on my knees to see which button goes with
> which word on the screen. Every where there is a single ATM, it is
> at a height to accomodate someone in a wheel chair (or very short),
> while being most difficult to use for those of us without "special
> needs".

AND PAY PHONES!!
Bent damn near double trying to punch in twenty seven digits!
Phooey.

Ken.

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 9/24/2005:

<snip>

> As with most things, the key is "within reason" and its interpretation.
> When such an accomodation affects 149 people out of 100, I personally feel
> that's going too far. 'Course, my opinion never counts for much. :-)

Do they still serve peanuts on commercial flights? That would surprise
me given the sensitivity to lawsuits and bad publicity. Thinking back
over - say - the last 2 years, I think the "snack" has been something
else.

BUT, I agree with your basic position.

On Sat 24 Sep 2005 06:24:36p, Ariane Jenkins wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> On 25 Sep 2005 00:45:27 +0200, Wayne Boatwright >
> wrote:
>>
>> As with most things, the key is "within reason" and its interpretation.
>> When such an accomodation affects 149 people out of 100, I personally
>> feel that's going too far. 'Course, my opinion never counts for much.
>> :-)
>
> Hehe. You know that saying about opinions being like assholes... <g>
>
> To me, it's also a matter of degree. If someone's got a severe enough
> allergy they could die if exposed to peanuts, then for me that takes
> precedence over even 300 peoples' rights to chow down on nasty ol'
> airplane peanuts. It may never come to that, but if it did...

Probably unarguable at best, but I firmly do not believe that the rights of
1 should ever take precedence over the rights of 300. In my "warped" sense
of fairness, that would also carry if the ration were 49 to 51. If their
problem is that serious, then they shouldn't be there.

The so-called edible offerings on airplanes these days almost makes this a
moot point. I seldom fly anymore but would be more likely to take my own
snack on anything but a puddle-jump flight. If it happened to be something
containing peanuts, then so be it. I happen to like Snickers bars, and I'm
not about to canvass a plane full of people to find out whether I can eat
it. If someone sitting next to me asked me not to eat it, I'd suggest that
they change their seat.

> On a related note, I think someone else mentioned the downsizing of
> airplane food. I've gotten packets of peanuts on flights within the
> last 5 years, but they're pathetic... maybe half a dozen measly peanuts,
> if that. And once on a Southwest flight, each passenger received a 1"x2"
> cracker (I kid you not), individually wrapped. I thought, "Why
> bother??" ;D

Indeed!

Cheers!

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ___

If assholes could fly, this place would be an airport.

Gabby wrote:
>
> Peanut allergy is one of the few I know of where the allergic person can die
> because YOU ate peanuts. Just the opening of bags of peanuts on a plane can
> trigger an anaphylactic reaction. I'm not aware of anyone ever dying
> because someone else ate wheat.
>
> The epi-pen is a stop-gap measure to buy time while you haul ass to the
> nearest ER. Depending on the flight, an ER may not be accessible in enough
> time for the epi-pen to be worth anything. All it would do is prolong
> death.
>
> FWIW, not all airlines have stopped offering peanuts. A few have taken the
> attitude of some of the posters he your allergy is your problem, not
> ours.

Thank you for speaking the voice of reason here in the darkness.

I'm very disappointed in the attitudes of a few people who I thought
were much nicer and more caring than what they're exposing themselves
to be in this thread. I've got to re-think who I want to be friends
with.

Carol