In article . com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > In article .com>,
> > "Sheldon" > wrote:
> >
> > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > When one is consuming a lot of meat in the diet (like I am at the
> > > > moment), plain meat burgers are going to get really boring really fast,
> > > > as is plain grilled chicken.
> > > >
> > > > I'm fixin' to start experimenting with mixing stuff with my beef
> > > > (keeping it low carb) to make my "burgers" more interesting. Same with
> > > > the chicken. After seeing the earlier thread on chicken palliard (or
> > > > however the hell it's spelled!) I do want to try pounding spices/herbs
> > > > into the raw chickens breasts and/or thighs prior to grilling them.
> > >
> > > If only you had a meat grinder... you could make your own chicken meat
> > > loaf or chicken patty meat loaf... that's about the only way I do
> > > skinless/boneless chicken breasts... I don't really care for plain
> > > chicken breasts, no matter even if you cook them book-perfect they're
> > > still kinds dry and tasteless.... instead grind them with veggies,
> > > herbs, seasoning... then blend in some crumbs and a few eggs, form into
> > > whatever shape, brush with egg and coat with crumbs and fry, or bake.
> > > Breasts are kind of tender so you don't want to grill yours or the
> > > grill grate will slice into them like they're hard cooked eggs, if
> > > yoose think mamograms are bad... hehe
> > >
> > > If you had a meat grinder you could do the same with any meat, any cut
> > > of beef, pork, turkey, even fish... and you'll know exactly what/who is
> > > in it. Salmon loaf is great... I used to have a really good recipe
> > > where cottage cheese was added to the ground salmon mixture but it's
> > > nowhere to be found, I suppose one could experiment with a small
> > > recipe.
> > >
> > > Sheldon
> > >
> >
> > I may very well have to look into that.
> > The kitchen aid can be a pita to set up for small amounts.
>
> The KA attachment is even more of a pita for large amounts
>
> Sheldon
>

I never thought so. ;-)

I know you don't like kitchen aids, but I grew up with one and we used
the meat grinder attachment for it more than just about any other
function. The sausage cone was great for making link sausages too.

It always worked well for us.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Joseph Littleshoes > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > Joseph Littleshoes > wrote:
> >
> > > djs0302 wrote:
> > >
> > > > Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
> > > > > OmManiPadmeOmelet > said:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think meatloaf patties, grilled or fried, are an excellent
> > idea.
> > >
> > > I agree, sauted with mushroom and served as a 'salisbury' steak is
> > one
> > > of my faves. I have recently become addicted to whole leaf sage and
> >
> > > ground turkey.
> > >
> > > Often when i do not feel like shopping for or making a whole 'meat
> > loaf'
> > > i will do something similar and pan fry it. Same with Meat balls.
> > > ---
> > > JL
> > >
> >
> > I've got LOTS of fresh sage in the herb garden, including "russian
> > sage"
> > that my housemate bought. It's throwing some beautiful tall purple
> > bloom
> > spikes at the moment.
> >
> > It's amazing how many varieties of "sages" their are.
> >
> > The only Salvia variety I suck at growing is S. divinorum. ;-(
>
> Lovely, charming, stick an 'Cinnzano' umbrella over it and call it, due
> to other influences in my life, copisetic (sp?).
>
> I find the term "S. divinorum" intriguing.
> ---
> JL
>

The species is called "divinorum" for good reason.
Also known as "diviners sage".

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salvia_faq.shtml
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet > said:

> Saved to my nutrition file, thanks!
> I do like italian sausage!
>
> I'd love the one for breakfast sauasge if you have thyme? <G>

<GROAN> Here ya go!

* Exported from MasterCook *

Breakfast Sausage

Recipe By :Rytek Kutas
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : breakfast/brunch induction
low-carb sausage

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 1/2 pounds ground pork -- (butt)
1 1/4 tablespoons salt
3/4 teaspoon ground white pepper
1 1/2 teaspoons rubbed sage
1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
3/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
3/4 teaspoon ground thyme
1/2 cup ice water

I mixed all this together and formed it into uniform patties by putting a
plastic bag in a round flat Rubbermaid container, rolling the meat mixture
into a ball and putting it on the plastic, then mashing it down with a lid
from a peanut butter jar. Kutas shows this process with pictures in the
book. IMO this recipe would make excellent links, too. I have a stuffer,
but was too lazy to go buy casings.

According to Kutas, it is important that the meat be as cold as possible
while mixing is taking place, and that the patties should be refrigerated
or frozen immediately.

The results were excellent. IMO it would be hard to go wrong with this
recipe.

~Ivan Weiss~

Source:
"Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing"
Yield:
"2 pounds"

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Per serving: 3004 Calories (kcal); 241g Total Fat; (73% calories from fat);
192g Protein; 3g Carbohydrate; 817mg Cholesterol; 8634mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 27 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 32
Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates


NOTES : Posted to rfc on 4/16/01 by Ivan Weiss.

Joseph Littleshoes > said:

> "Salisbury steak".

I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with strangely
congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil tray. I'm gonna
stick with meatloaf patties. It's better psychologically. <G>

Carol

Hugs and thanks!!! :-)

Kat/Om

In article >,
Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > said:
>
> > Saved to my nutrition file, thanks!
> > I do like italian sausage!
> >
> > I'd love the one for breakfast sauasge if you have thyme? <G>
>
> <GROAN> Here ya go!
>
> * Exported from MasterCook *
>
> Breakfast Sausage
>
> Recipe By :Rytek Kutas
> Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
> Categories : breakfast/brunch induction
> low-carb sausage
>
> Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
> -------- ------------ --------------------------------
> 2 1/2 pounds ground pork -- (butt)
> 1 1/4 tablespoons salt
> 3/4 teaspoon ground white pepper
> 1 1/2 teaspoons rubbed sage
> 1/4 teaspoon ground ginger
> 3/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg
> 3/4 teaspoon ground thyme
> 1/2 cup ice water
>
> I mixed all this together and formed it into uniform patties by putting a
> plastic bag in a round flat Rubbermaid container, rolling the meat mixture
> into a ball and putting it on the plastic, then mashing it down with a lid
> from a peanut butter jar. Kutas shows this process with pictures in the
> book. IMO this recipe would make excellent links, too. I have a stuffer,
> but was too lazy to go buy casings.
>
> According to Kutas, it is important that the meat be as cold as possible
> while mixing is taking place, and that the patties should be refrigerated
> or frozen immediately.
>
> The results were excellent. IMO it would be hard to go wrong with this
> recipe.
>
> ~Ivan Weiss~
>
> Source:
> "Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing"
> Yield:
> "2 pounds"
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> Per serving: 3004 Calories (kcal); 241g Total Fat; (73% calories from fat);
> 192g Protein; 3g Carbohydrate; 817mg Cholesterol; 8634mg Sodium
> Food Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 27 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 32
> Fat; 0 Other Carbohydrates
>
>
> NOTES : Posted to rfc on 4/16/01 by Ivan Weiss.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Mon 19 Sep 2005 07:02:53p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Joseph Littleshoes > said:
>
>> "Salisbury steak".
>
> I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with strangely
> congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil tray. I'm gonna
> stick with meatloaf patties. It's better psychologically. <G>
>
> Carol
>

My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss steak, but
not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion, herbs, and an egg
were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with veggies.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Wayne Boatwright > said:

> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss steak, but
> not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion, herbs, and an egg
> were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with veggies.

Yeppers! That's what Crash does. He makes great meatloaf patties. One of
his four specialties (cornish game hens, smoked salmon, and lasagna being
the others).

Carol

On Mon 19 Sep 2005 09:47:30p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in
rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright > said:
>
>> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss steak,
>> but not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion, herbs,
>> and an egg were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with
>> veggies.
>
> Yeppers! That's what Crash does. He makes great meatloaf patties. One
> of his four specialties (cornish game hens, smoked salmon, and lasagna
> being the others).
>
> Carol
>

I could certainly be happy with all of those! I haven't made Cornish hens
years. I used to make a sweet/savory stuffing made with crumbled, toasted,
and buttered poundcake, pecans, cranberries, and sauteed shallots with a
few fresh herbs. Different, but a real pleaser.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:

> Agreed. We call them meatloaf patties.

How about "rissoles"?

Victor

(Victor Sack) said:

> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>
> > Agreed. We call them meatloaf patties.
>
> How about "rissoles"?

Cool! That's even better than "pork medallions!"

Carol (they're boneless pork chops)

Wayne Boatwright wrote on 19 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking

> On Mon 19 Sep 2005 07:02:53p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in
> rec.food.cooking:
>
> > Joseph Littleshoes > said:
> >
> >> "Salisbury steak".
> >
> > I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with
> > strangely congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil
> > tray. I'm gonna stick with meatloaf patties. It's better
> > psychologically. <G>
> >
> > Carol
> >
>
> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss
> steak, but not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion,
> herbs, and an egg were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with
> veggies.
>

I eat pan fried salisbury steak myself...I think it's the gravy that makes
it good. Whether or not it is some sort of meatloaf patty or strictly
ground beef is incidental. Bothways it's good.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

G'day Sheldon,

I was interested to see your comment below about using a meat grinder
for "mixing" ingredients as distinct from simply making mince.

What do you call a "meat grinder" over there these days? My ancient
mincer is a thing with a hopper and a small auger that forces stuff
though a perforated plate with a rotating cutter at the end. It
simply clamps onto the edge of the kitchen table so the winding handle
can be turned fully, and the minced stuff falls out the other end into
whatever you've put under it (or onto the table top .

That sound anything like yours?

In article .com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:
>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>> >
>> When one is consuming a lot of meat in the diet (like I am at the
>> moment), plain meat burgers are going to get really boring really fast,
>> as is plain grilled chicken.
>>
>> I'm fixin' to start experimenting with mixing stuff with my beef
>> (keeping it low carb) to make my "burgers" more interesting. Same with
>> the chicken. After seeing the earlier thread on chicken palliard (or
>> however the hell it's spelled!) I do want to try pounding spices/herbs
>> into the raw chickens breasts and/or thighs prior to grilling them.
>
>If only you had a meat grinder... you could make your own chicken meat
>loaf or chicken patty meat loaf... that's about the only way I do
>skinless/boneless chicken breasts... I don't really care for plain
>chicken breasts, no matter even if you cook them book-perfect they're
>still kinds dry and tasteless.... instead grind them with veggies,
>herbs, seasoning... then blend in some crumbs and a few eggs, form into
>whatever shape, brush with egg and coat with crumbs and fry, or bake.
>Breasts are kind of tender so you don't want to grill yours or the
>grill grate will slice into them like they're hard cooked eggs, if
>yoose think mamograms are bad... hehe
>
>If you had a meat grinder you could do the same with any meat, any cut
>of beef, pork, turkey, even fish... and you'll know exactly what/who is
>in it. Salmon loaf is great... I used to have a really good recipe
>where cottage cheese was added to the ground salmon mixture but it's
>nowhere to be found, I suppose one could experiment with a small
>recipe.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

On Tue 20 Sep 2005 12:09:31a, Mr Libido Incognito wrote in
rec.food.cooking:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 19 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> On Mon 19 Sep 2005 07:02:53p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in
>> rec.food.cooking:
>>
>> > Joseph Littleshoes > said:
>> >
>> >> "Salisbury steak".
>> >
>> > I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with
>> > strangely congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil
>> > tray. I'm gonna stick with meatloaf patties. It's better
>> > psychologically. <G>
>> >
>> > Carol
>> >
>>
>> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss
>> steak, but not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion,
>> herbs, and an egg were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with
>> veggies.
>>
>
> I eat pan fried salisbury steak myself...I think it's the gravy that
makes
> it good. Whether or not it is some sort of meatloaf patty or strictly
> ground beef is incidental. Bothways it's good.
>

Agreed. It's those prefab beef patties and commercial glue gravy that are
really awful.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

In article >,
(Phred) wrote:

> G'day Sheldon,
>
> I was interested to see your comment below about using a meat grinder
> for "mixing" ingredients as distinct from simply making mince.
>
> What do you call a "meat grinder" over there these days? My ancient
> mincer is a thing with a hopper and a small auger that forces stuff
> though a perforated plate with a rotating cutter at the end. It
> simply clamps onto the edge of the kitchen table so the winding handle
> can be turned fully, and the minced stuff falls out the other end into
> whatever you've put under it (or onto the table top .
>
> That sound anything like yours?

Same thing.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Sam I Am! updated 9-12-05

In article >, Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>In article >,
>(Phred) wrote:
>
>> G'day Sheldon,
>>
>> I was interested to see your comment below about using a meat grinder
>> for "mixing" ingredients as distinct from simply making mince.
>>
>> What do you call a "meat grinder" over there these days? My ancient
>> mincer is a thing with a hopper and a small auger that forces stuff
>> though a perforated plate with a rotating cutter at the end. It
>> simply clamps onto the edge of the kitchen table so the winding handle
>> can be turned fully, and the minced stuff falls out the other end into
>> whatever you've put under it (or onto the table top .
>>
>> That sound anything like yours?
>
>Same thing.

Thanks for confirming that, Barb. Must say I've never thought of
using it as a mixer; I'll have to give it a try. (Not sure about
bunging fish through it though -- quite apart from the fact that
freshly caught coral trout are best eaten baked whole or as lightly
battered skinless fillets. :-)



Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Phred > wrote:

> (Not sure about
> bunging fish through it though

Most assuredly you can do that. Depends on the fish and the dish, of
course. Consider, for example, various fish rissoles, the French fish
quenelles, the Jewish Vorschmack and gefilte fish, etc.

Victor

In article >, (Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred > wrote:
>
>> (Not sure about
>> bunging fish through it though
>
>Most assuredly you can do that. Depends on the fish and the dish, of
>course. Consider, for example, various fish rissoles, the French fish
>quenelles, the Jewish Vorschmack and gefilte fish, etc.

Yeah. But why make rissoles out of good fresh fish? (And that's the
only sort I enjoy eating! Just bake 'em whole; or grill or fry the
fillets -- freshly smoked mackeral is pretty good stuff too.

I guess if one has to buy fish from a retailer that has probably been
frozen for weeks, if not months, then you have to go to some effort to
disguise the flavour. ;-)


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> Joseph Littleshoes > said:
>
> > "Salisbury steak".
>
> I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with strangely
>
> congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil tray. I'm
> gonna
> stick with meatloaf patties. It's better psychologically. <G>
>
> Carol

Somewhere i have an old (1930's?) salisbury steak recipe served with a
mushroom gravy. If i can find it ill post it.
---
JL

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Tue 20 Sep 2005 12:09:31a, Mr Libido Incognito wrote in
> rec.food.cooking:
>
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote on 19 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
> >
> >> On Mon 19 Sep 2005 07:02:53p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in
> >> rec.food.cooking:
> >>
> >> > Joseph Littleshoes > said:
> >> >
> >> >> "Salisbury steak".
> >> >
> >> > I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with
> >> > strangely congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil
>
> >> > tray. I'm gonna stick with meatloaf patties. It's better
> >> > psychologically. <G>
> >> >
> >> > Carol
> >> >
> >>
> >> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss
> >> steak, but not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs,
> onion,
> >> herbs, and an egg were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy
> with
> >> veggies.
> >>
> >
> > I eat pan fried salisbury steak myself...I think it's the gravy that
>
> makes
> > it good. Whether or not it is some sort of meatloaf patty or
> strictly
> > ground beef is incidental. Bothways it's good.
> >
>
> Agreed. It's those prefab beef patties and commercial glue gravy that
> are
> really awful.

I like to brown a good quantity of sliced mushrooms with the meat patty.
then after removing the fully cooked meat patty from the pan i make the
gravy with the browned mushrooms & a litlle burgandy.
---
JL

>
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
> ____________________________________________
>
> Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> > On Tue 20 Sep 2005 12:09:31a, Mr Libido Incognito wrote in
> > rec.food.cooking:
> >
> > > Wayne Boatwright wrote on 19 Sep 2005 in rec.food.cooking
> > >
> > >> On Mon 19 Sep 2005 07:02:53p, Damsel in dis Dress wrote in
> > >> rec.food.cooking:
> > >>
> > >> > Joseph Littleshoes > said:
> > >> >
> > >> >> "Salisbury steak".
> > >> >
> > >> > I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with
> > >> > strangely congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil
> >
> > >> > tray. I'm gonna stick with meatloaf patties. It's better
> > >> > psychologically. <G>
> > >> >
> > >> > Carol
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss
> > >> steak, but not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs,
> > onion,
> > >> herbs, and an egg were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy
> > with
> > >> veggies.
> > >>
> > >
> > > I eat pan fried salisbury steak myself...I think it's the gravy that
> >
> > makes
> > > it good. Whether or not it is some sort of meatloaf patty or
> > strictly
> > > ground beef is incidental. Bothways it's good.
> > >
> >
> > Agreed. It's those prefab beef patties and commercial glue gravy that
> > are
> > really awful.
>
> I like to brown a good quantity of sliced mushrooms with the meat patty.
> then after removing the fully cooked meat patty from the pan i make the
> gravy with the browned mushrooms & a litlle burgandy.

Burgers with gravy... sounds like your wet dream.

Sheldon

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> Wayne Boatwright > said:
>
> > My mom used to make salisbury steak in a similar manner to swiss
> steak, but
> > not cooked as long. Patties made with breadcrumbs, onion, herbs,
> and an egg
> > were well browned, then cooked in a sauce/gravy with veggies.
>
> Yeppers! That's what Crash does. He makes great meatloaf patties.
> One of
> his four specialties (cornish game hens, smoked salmon, and lasagna
> being
> the others).
>
> Carol

I like to make fish or crab cakes and will on occasion make a fish loaf
of ground up salmon, garlic, shallots, lemon, bread crumbs and a bit of
white wine, then serve with a wine reduction sauce.
---
JL

Phred > wrote:

> (Victor Sack) wrote:
> >
> >Most assuredly you can do that. Depends on the fish and the dish, of
> >course. Consider, for example, various fish rissoles, the French fish
> >quenelles, the Jewish Vorschmack and gefilte fish, etc.
>
> Yeah. But why make rissoles out of good fresh fish?

Why not? By the same reasoning, why not make rissoles out of good fresh
meat? A good meat rissole or a hamburger, etc., made from a good,
suitable cut is in no way inferior to, say, a good steak, just
different. It's the same with fish. As is the case with different
kinds of meat and meat cuts, there are different kinds of fish and some
are more suitable for particular methods of cooking or preparation than
the others. You probably wouldn't want to mince a Dover sole or a
sturgeon, but it would be an eminently good idea to do so with, for
example, pike or herring.

> (And that's the
> only sort I enjoy eating! Just bake 'em whole; or grill or fry the
> fillets

Or poach 'em... or make fish soup with 'em...

> -- freshly smoked mackeral is pretty good stuff too.

Exactly, and so is smoked eel (is there anything better in the whole
wide world?), halibut, sprats, and haddock. And what about cured or
pickled fish? Matjes (maatjesharing), the food of the gods... ah!

Victor

In article >, (Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred > wrote:
>
>> (Victor Sack) wrote:
>> >
>> >Most assuredly you can do that. Depends on the fish and the dish, of
>> >course. Consider, for example, various fish rissoles, the French fish
>> >quenelles, the Jewish Vorschmack and gefilte fish, etc.
>>
>> Yeah. But why make rissoles out of good fresh fish?
>
>Why not? By the same reasoning, why not make rissoles out of good fresh
>meat? A good meat rissole or a hamburger, etc., made from a good,
>suitable cut is in no way inferior to, say, a good steak, just different.

The point being that you wouldn't mince a good steak and, yes, you can
make a palatable presentation by mincing and seasoning lower quality
cuts.

>It's the same with fish. As is the case with different
>kinds of meat and meat cuts, there are different kinds of fish and some
>are more suitable for particular methods of cooking or preparation than
>the others. You probably wouldn't want to mince a Dover sole or a
>sturgeon, but it would be an eminently good idea to do so with, for
>example, pike or herring.

Exactly! But my point was that, where you have access to superb fish
for eating "as is" direct from the sea, why bother at all with lesser
species?

>> (And that's the
>> only sort I enjoy eating! Just bake 'em whole; or grill or fry the
>> fillets
>
>Or poach 'em... or make fish soup with 'em...

I do poach haddock occasionally and I made fish soup once, but
probably won't bother again. ;-)

>> -- freshly smoked mackeral is pretty good stuff too.
>
>Exactly, and so is smoked eel (is there anything better in the whole
>wide world?), halibut, sprats, and haddock. And what about cured or
>pickled fish? Matjes (maatjesharing), the food of the gods... ah!

I'm not familiar with smoked eel or your Matjes. :-) But, while I'm
partial to a bit of smoked haddock occasionally, I'm not really into
the "preserved" fish products in general. My "smoked mackeral" is not
made for preservation, but for immediate consumption -- pretty much
like a slow bake with smoke flavour. (Though it's not really all that
slow in time as the fish is usually done in finger-eating pieces; it's
just "slow" in temperature.)

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Joseph Littleshoes wrote:

> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
> > Joseph Littleshoes > said:
> >
> > > "Salisbury steak".
> >
> > I think of salisbury steak as rubbery meat-like patties with
> strangely
> >
> > congealed gravy-like substance, served in a little foil tray. I'm
> > gonna
> > stick with meatloaf patties. It's better psychologically. <G>
> >
> > Carol
>
> Somewhere i have an old (1930's?) salisbury steak recipe served with a
>
> mushroom gravy. If i can find it ill post it.
> ---
> JL

Having found the recipe i notice an aspect of it that i had not noticed
before. The recipe, while probly not original to the now deceased
relative who had a reputation for being a very, very good cook, is from
her collection that i saved from being trashed. I have it for quantities
of 5, 25 or 100 and if anybody's interested i can post the whole thing.

But what i found interesting is that while i routinely pan fry my
"Salisbury steak" the old recipe calls for simmering it in at least 1
cup of 'stock' in the oven for 1 hour at 350 F.

Also while i use just ground beef for the Salisbury steak the recipe i
mention is made with ground beef, veal and pork in decreasing amounts of
10, 6 and 4 ounces for 5 servings..
---
JL

On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:23:14 -0500, in rec.food.cooking, Damsel in dis
Dress wrote:

>Wayne Boatwright > said:
>
>> Nice meatloaf you've got there! The best burgers I consistently make are
>> 100% meat with no additions. I use 80% lean and hand form the patties.
>
>(I'm just attaching my comments to your post because it's the last one on
>my list - nothing negative about what you said at all)
>
>Doesn't anyone put chopped onions in their burgers? My dad used to make
>them that way, then grilled them over charcoal. I never cooked them that
>way myself until this (fading) summer. Damn! Those things are good! So
>much better than plain ol' meat.

I haven't made burgers much recently, but when I did I usually added
chopped onions.

Doug
--
Doug Weller -- exorcise the demon to reply
Doug & Helen's Dogs http://www.dougandhelen.com
A Director and Moderator of The Hall of Ma'at http://www.hallofmaat.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk

Doug Weller wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:23:14 -0500, in rec.food.cooking, Damsel in dis
> Dress wrote:
>
> >Wayne Boatwright > said:
> >
> >> Nice meatloaf you've got there! The best burgers I consistently make are
> >> 100% meat with no additions. I use 80% lean and hand form the patties.
> >
> >(I'm just attaching my comments to your post because it's the last one on
> >my list - nothing negative about what you said at all)
> >
> >Doesn't anyone put chopped onions in their burgers? My dad used to make
> >them that way, then grilled them over charcoal. I never cooked them that
> >way myself until this (fading) summer. Damn! Those things are good! So
> >much better than plain ol' meat.
>
> I haven't made burgers much recently, but when I did I usually added
> chopped onions.

Better with a fresh cut paper thin slice of raw onion on top of a
cooked burger... chopped onions inside remain pretty much raw anyways
but those bits fercockt up the taste of the meat... I suppose yoose use
mystery meat and I can appreciate not wanting to taste that.

Sheldon

Phred > wrote:

> The point being that you wouldn't mince a good steak and, yes, you can
> make a palatable presentation by mincing and seasoning lower quality
> cuts.

But they are not necessarily of lower quality, just different and
requiring different methods of preparation. That's the whole point.

> Exactly! But my point was that, where you have access to superb fish
> for eating "as is" direct from the sea, why bother at all with lesser
> species?

Again, the species are not necessarily any "lesser", they just require
different methods of cooking. You seem to be comparing apples and
oranges.

Methinks you are mostly talking about your personal preferences...
nothing wrong with this. Yet, you seem to be restricting yourself
unnecessarily - there is a whole world of cooking that is not limited to
quickly frying or otherwise cooking supposedly "noble" whole cuts and
pieces. Also consider, for example, foie gras. It can be pan fried
whole, or it can be made into a pté. Which is better? Some people
prefer the one, some the other, some like both equally well. And a
minority, most of it located outside of Europe, it seems, will just
recoil in horror, never even having tried either preparation, just
because it is "liver". :-)

> I do poach haddock occasionally and I made fish soup once, but
> probably won't bother again. ;-)

What kind of fish soup? Given a choice, personally I can't even imagine
preferring any kind of hot fish preparation to a really good
bouillabaisse or bourride. But that's just me.

> I'm not familiar with smoked eel or your Matjes. :-)

Oh, what a crying shame and a great pity! :-(( If you ever visit a
place where these fish are available and are of good quality, you owe it
to yourself to try them at least once. Chances are, you won't regret
it. I'd bet there are some places in Australia where they *are*
available.

> But, while I'm
> partial to a bit of smoked haddock occasionally, I'm not really into
> the "preserved" fish products in general. My "smoked mackeral" is not
> made for preservation, but for immediate consumption -- pretty much
> like a slow bake with smoke flavour. (Though it's not really all that
> slow in time as the fish is usually done in finger-eating pieces; it's
> just "slow" in temperature.)

For such fish as eel or matjes (virginal young Dutch herring), smoking
or curing with a view of preserving them for any period of time is not
really a major consideration nowadays, I think, any such result is just
a side benefit. Those who buy and eat such fish do it entirely out of
preference, not of convenience, usually. Matjes is really a seasonal
delicacy, most of it produced and eaten in the spring.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:

> Phred > wrote:
>
> > The point being that you wouldn't mince a good steak

....ah but...'fancy' sausages are made from "Noble" cuts of meat, often
with wines and brandies.

> and, yes, you can
> > make a palatable presentation by mincing and seasoning lower quality
>
> > cuts.
>
> But they are not necessarily of lower quality, just different and
> requiring different methods of preparation. That's the whole point.
>
> > Exactly! But my point was that, where you have access to superb
> fish
> > for eating "as is" direct from the sea, why bother at all with
> lesser
> > species?
>
> Again, the species are not necessarily any "lesser", they just require
>
> different methods of cooking. You seem to be comparing apples and
> oranges.
>
> Methinks you are mostly talking about your personal preferences...
> nothing wrong with this. Yet, you seem to be restricting yourself
> unnecessarily - there is a whole world of cooking that is not limited
> to
> quickly frying or otherwise cooking supposedly "noble" whole cuts and
> pieces. Also consider, for example, foie gras. It can be pan fried
> whole, or it can be made into a pté. Which is better? Some people
> prefer the one, some the other, some like both equally well. And a
> minority, most of it located outside of Europe, it seems, will just
> recoil in horror, never even having tried either preparation, just
> because it is "liver". :-)
>
> > I do poach haddock occasionally and I made fish soup once, but
> > probably won't bother again. ;-)

Not really caring for sea food in general and being a bit paranoid about
it i nevertheless live in a "Bay Area" and once a year indulge in the
crab harvest and i do like me crab cakes made with potatoes. And
occasionally pick up the frozen pound or two of fish to make into
various pates. Fish is good with pistachios.

>
>
> What kind of fish soup? Given a choice, personally I can't even
> imagine
> preferring any kind of hot fish preparation to a really good
> bouillabaisse or bourride. But that's just me.

Good is good no matter its origins, Briallint - Savarin (sp?) and his
'Physiology of Taste" merely demonstrate the proposition that 'honesty'
has more to do with 'good taste' than flavour per se. One mans milk is
another mans execrable abomination & etc.

>
>
> > I'm not familiar with smoked eel or your Matjes. :-)
>
> Oh, what a crying shame and a great pity! :-(( If you ever visit a
> place where these fish are available and are of good quality, you owe
> it
> to yourself to try them at least once. Chances are, you won't regret
> it. I'd bet there are some places in Australia where they *are*
> available.

Rattler (western American poisonous snake) is good once you actually
have killed them. I have heard the diamondbacks are the best but have
never actually eaten one. Thing is, they are often big, large snakes,
lots of flesh.

>
>
> > But, while I'm
> > partial to a bit of smoked haddock occasionally, I'm not really into
>
> > the "preserved" fish products in general.

For a hint of the sea in a dish, a subtle flavouring ingredient, many
forms of preserved animal flesh is used. Various cans of tuna have been
made into casserole so many times it has apotheosized itself into a
'comfort food' with brie and garlic bread crumbs, and flakes of roasted
halibut if your getting really fancy.

> My "smoked mackeral" is not
> > made for preservation, but for immediate consumption -- pretty much
> > like a slow bake with smoke flavour. (Though it's not really all
> that
> > slow in time as the fish is usually done in finger-eating pieces;
> it's
> > just "slow" in temperature.)

most sea food benefits from quick cooking.

>
>
> For such fish as eel or matjes (virginal young Dutch herring), smoking
>
> or curing with a view of preserving them for any period of time is not
>
> really a major consideration nowadays, I think, any such result is
> just
> a side benefit. Those who buy and eat such fish do it entirely out of
>
> preference, not of convenience, usually. Matjes is really a seasonal
> delicacy, most of it produced and eaten in the spring.

Im fond of the French and Italian usage of ground fish for various
fillings and as sausages or 'cakes' on their own. On a whim i once
rubbed the inside of a chicken with a spicy Chinese mustard and then
lightly packed it full of fresh shrimp, de veined & shelled. Basted it
with a chenin blanc and butter and i probly rubbed the outside of it
with butter and garlic but anyway after the bird were done i removed the
shrimp and served it on the side with lemon and a bit of chopped
parsley....mmmmm....im going to do a homer simpson and start drooling if
i am not careful but chicken and shrimp is probly my favourite.
---
JL

>
>
> Victor

On 22 Sep 2005 14:21:21 -0700, Sheldon wrote:
>
> Doug Weller wrote:
> >
> > I haven't made burgers much recently, but when I did I usually added
> > chopped onions.
>
> Better with a fresh cut paper thin slice of raw onion on top of a
> cooked burger...

I agree, except I want my onion in thick slices. Onion breath can be
your friend... just like coffee breath.

> chopped onions inside remain pretty much raw anyways

Not in my experience. If they did, I wouldn't object so much.

> but those bits fercockt up the taste of the meat...

I agree.

> I suppose yoose use
> mystery meat and I can appreciate not wanting to taste that.
>
It f's up the taste of fresh ground too.

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred > wrote:
>
>> The point being that you wouldn't mince a good steak and, yes, you can
>> make a palatable presentation by mincing and seasoning lower quality
>> cuts.
>
>But they are not necessarily of lower quality, just different and
>requiring different methods of preparation. That's the whole point.

Hmm... If you really "get what you pay for" then this part of the
world clearly sees some cuts of beef (especially beef) as better
quality than others.

>> Exactly! But my point was that, where you have access to superb fish
>> for eating "as is" direct from the sea, why bother at all with lesser
>> species?
>
>Again, the species are not necessarily any "lesser", they just require
>different methods of cooking. You seem to be comparing apples and
>oranges.
>
>Methinks you are mostly talking about your personal preferences...

Of course! Wouldn't dream of speaking for others. ;-)

>nothing wrong with this. Yet, you seem to be restricting yourself
>unnecessarily - there is a whole world of cooking that is not limited to
>quickly frying or otherwise cooking supposedly "noble" whole cuts and
>pieces. Also consider, for example, foie gras. It can be pan fried
>whole, or it can be made into a pté. Which is better? Some people
>prefer the one, some the other, some like both equally well. And a
>minority, most of it located outside of Europe, it seems, will just
>recoil in horror, never even having tried either preparation, just
>because it is "liver". :-)

Actually, one of my favourite breakfasts is liver and bacon -- but I'm
buggered if I can make it properly. :-( [In truth, I don't think
*anyone* can make it properly since the days of steam on Queensland
Rail. Don't know how they did it, but the delight (the *only*
delight of travelling by rail for two days down the coast of
Queensland covered in soot, was the dinning car breaky of liver and
bacon served at one point of the trip. I'm drooling with the memory!

>> I do poach haddock occasionally and I made fish soup once, but
>> probably won't bother again. ;-)
>
>What kind of fish soup? Given a choice, personally I can't even imagine
>preferring any kind of hot fish preparation to a really good
>bouillabaisse or bourride. But that's just me.
>
>> I'm not familiar with smoked eel or your Matjes. :-)
>
>Oh, what a crying shame and a great pity! :-(( If you ever visit a
>place where these fish are available and are of good quality, you owe it
>to yourself to try them at least once. Chances are, you won't regret
>it. I'd bet there are some places in Australia where they *are*
>available.
>
>> But, while I'm
>> partial to a bit of smoked haddock occasionally, I'm not really into
>> the "preserved" fish products in general. My "smoked mackeral" is not
>> made for preservation, but for immediate consumption -- pretty much
>> like a slow bake with smoke flavour. (Though it's not really all that
>> slow in time as the fish is usually done in finger-eating pieces; it's
>> just "slow" in temperature.)
>
>For such fish as eel or matjes (virginal young Dutch herring), smoking

As an early teenager who spent most of every school holidays in the
local creeks and streams spearfishing (now banned of course) I once
speared a "giant" eel -- weighed in at about 10 lbs and was probably
about 30" long. I could only see the head initially, and thought it
was a fish of some sort, so I got a hell of a fright when the bloody
thing fairly "exploded" out of the snag! Mate and I cycled around
town for an hour or more trying to offload the damn thing. We
eventually succeeded when we called on one of the "ethnics" from
southern Italy.

>or curing with a view of preserving them for any period of time is not
>really a major consideration nowadays, I think, any such result is just
>a side benefit. Those who buy and eat such fish do it entirely out of
>preference, not of convenience, usually. Matjes is really a seasonal
>delicacy, most of it produced and eaten in the spring.

Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
"Matjes" had made it this far from home. But all I could find were
bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Phred > wrote:

> Hmm... If you really "get what you pay for" then this part of the
> world clearly sees some cuts of beef (especially beef) as better
> quality than others.

The price is usually determined by supply and demand, not necessarily by
taste. As to supply, there is much less meat suitable for steaks on the
cow than for other cooking methods. As to demand, obviously, good
steaks are popular because of their taste, but also because they are
much easier to cook than most other cuts of meat, requiring only a few
minutes of cooking and no prep work. Demand may be determined by
convenience as much as by taste considerations, often even more so.

Now consider, for example, a good stewed or good barbecued (in the
southern-US sense of the word) meat. These methods of preparation
require tough cuts of meat totally unsuitable for a steak and usually
costing rather less than most steak cuts. Are these dishes inferior to
a good steak? I would say they are not. Some prefer the one, some the
other, some like both equally well and it may just depend on the mood of
the moment. There is nothing inherently bad in a tough cuts of meat, on
the contrary, such cuts are often enough more flavourful.

> Actually, one of my favourite breakfasts is liver and bacon -- but I'm
> buggered if I can make it properly. :-( [In truth, I don't think
> *anyone* can make it properly since the days of steam on Queensland
> Rail. Don't know how they did it, but the delight (the *only*
> delight of travelling by rail for two days down the coast of
> Queensland covered in soot, was the dinning car breaky of liver and
> bacon served at one point of the trip. I'm drooling with the memory!

Sounds good. Was the liver just pan-fried? Myself, I like Jewish-style
chopped liver (which is best made with meat grinder/mincer). I also
like the Spanish preparation of chicken liver fried with onions, garlic
and white wine. Also chicken liver crostini.

> As an early teenager who spent most of every school holidays in the
> local creeks and streams spearfishing (now banned of course) I once
> speared a "giant" eel -- weighed in at about 10 lbs and was probably
> about 30" long. I could only see the head initially, and thought it
> was a fish of some sort, so I got a hell of a fright when the bloody
> thing fairly "exploded" out of the snag! Mate and I cycled around
> town for an hour or more trying to offload the damn thing. We
> eventually succeeded when we called on one of the "ethnics" from
> southern Italy.

Your loss! :-) Should've just grilled or pan-fried like the Italians
do. Such a big eel must be skinned, as the skin is much too tough to be
edible. Cut in pieces and fry in oil, or dip the pieces in beaten eggs
and roll in breadcrumbs (which are often enough mixed with grated
cheese, as this is one of those traditional Italian preparation that
disproves the old rule of no cheese with fish). Or you can thread the
eel pieces on skewers and grill them.

> Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
> "Matjes" had made it this far from home.

If it is available, it likely to be at a specialised fish monger's and
then maybe only in such big cities as Sydney or Melbourne. However,
here is a menu of a restaurant somewhere in Western Australia. They
offer matjes, so it must be available somewhere.
<http://members.ozemail.com.au/~thelily/Restaurant/Menu.htm>

> But all I could find were
> bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
> I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!

Personally, I heartily agree with your mate, as I can't stand fish
marinated in vinegar, but a lot of people like it. Anyway, rollmops is
a very different thing. The bulk of good matjes is sold just like fresh
fish either whole, right out of the barrel, or filleted, not prepackaged
usually. It has to be refrigerated. Matjes can also be sold frozen.
Matjes packed in oil or brine is available, it is said, but it doesn't
seem to be at all popular either in Holland or in Germany.

Victor

> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:21:05 +1000, Craig Welch >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Add a slice of beetroot, and you're OK.
>
> Now why would ruin a great burger with such an atrocity....

Even I, a great lover of beets, would not put it on a burger!


--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 09:21:05 +1000, Craig Welch >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Add a slice of beetroot, and you're OK.
> >
> > Now why would ruin a great burger with such an atrocity....
>
> Even I, a great lover of beets, would not put it on a burger!

You just don't have an appreciation for down-under aesthetics... before
you flush. hehe

Sheldon MOMA

In article >, (Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred > wrote:
>
>> Hmm... If you really "get what you pay for" then this part of the
>> world clearly sees some cuts of beef (especially beef) as better
>> quality than others.
>
>The price is usually determined by supply and demand, not necessarily by
>taste. As to supply, there is much less meat suitable for steaks on the
>cow than for other cooking methods. As to demand, obviously, good
>steaks are popular because of their taste, but also because they are
>much easier to cook than most other cuts of meat, requiring only a few
>minutes of cooking and no prep work. Demand may be determined by
>convenience as much as by taste considerations, often even more so.

I agree. The inferior cuts need a lot of bloody work to make them
edible. :-)

>Now consider, for example, a good stewed or good barbecued (in the
>southern-US sense of the word) meat. These methods of preparation
>require tough cuts of meat totally unsuitable for a steak and usually
>costing rather less than most steak cuts. Are these dishes inferior to
>a good steak? I would say they are not. Some prefer the one, some the
>other, some like both equally well and it may just depend on the mood of
>the moment. There is nothing inherently bad in a tough cuts of meat, on
>the contrary, such cuts are often enough more flavourful.

Yes. Given the effort and time you can make a good meal from such
cuts. In fact, I do enjoy stews and similar in the winter months --
and some of the effort involved can be spread around by freezing the
excess for subsequent "easy cooking" meals. (I *always* end up
with five or six servings when I make a stew or curry. ;-)

>> Actually, one of my favourite breakfasts is liver and bacon -- but I'm
>> buggered if I can make it properly. :-( [In truth, I don't think
>> *anyone* can make it properly since the days of steam on Queensland
>> Rail. Don't know how they did it, but the delight (the *only*
>> delight of travelling by rail for two days down the coast of
>> Queensland covered in soot, was the dinning car breaky of liver and
>> bacon served at one point of the trip. I'm drooling with the memory!
>
>Sounds good. Was the liver just pan-fried? Myself, I like Jewish-style
>chopped liver (which is best made with meat grinder/mincer). I also
>like the Spanish preparation of chicken liver fried with onions, garlic
>and white wine. Also chicken liver crostini.

Well, I'm not sure how they did it (if I knew maybe I could duplicate
the results but if you mean "was it served as lumps of liver" then,
yes, but not as giant slabs of the stuff. Somehow Qld Rail managed to
create the perfect blend of liver and bacon embedded in a rather
thick, very tasty sauce.

[Snipped details of eel capture, disposal, and cooking suggestions.]

>> Had a look around our local supermarkets this morning to see if your
>> "Matjes" had made it this far from home.
>
>If it is available, it likely to be at a specialised fish monger's and
>then maybe only in such big cities as Sydney or Melbourne. However,
>here is a menu of a restaurant somewhere in Western Australia. They
>offer matjes, so it must be available somewhere.
><http://members.ozemail.com.au/~thelily/Restaurant/Menu.htm>
>
>> But all I could find were
>> bottles of "marinated herring"; and something called "Rollmops" which,
>> I'm led to believe by a mate with most catholic tastes, are inedible!
>
>Personally, I heartily agree with your mate, as I can't stand fish
>marinated in vinegar, but a lot of people like it. Anyway, rollmops is
>a very different thing. The bulk of good matjes is sold just like fresh
>fish either whole, right out of the barrel, or filleted, not prepackaged
>usually. It has to be refrigerated. Matjes can also be sold frozen.
>Matjes packed in oil or brine is available, it is said, but it doesn't
>seem to be at all popular either in Holland or in Germany.

When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
fish/fillets? I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:

"Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
bread and salad"

Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
dining on it?

[Incidentally, that place is flogging plonk at $6/glass, but only
around $18/bottle -- enough to make drunks of us all!]

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Phred > wrote:

> When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
> fish/fillets?

Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted and
stored in barrels for a few days only, just enough to ferment the gut
enzymes (it is only those enzymes that ferment, not the fish itself, as
would be the case with the Swedish surströmming which many people
consider just rotten :-). Matjes is still practically raw.

> I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
>
> "Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
> bread and salad"
>
> Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
> what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
> dining on it?

Be sure it is indeed labelled "matjes", not just "salted herring" which
is different. Matjes fillets need no preparation and can be eaten "as
is" (it's the same with "salted herring", too). However, most often
matjes is served with onion rings or chopped onions, and black rye bread
of the pumpernickel type. You can also add sour cream. Or you can make
a salad with matjes containing all or any of the following: pickled
cucumbers, sour apples, boiled potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, boiled, baked
or pickled beetroots, sour cream, mayonnaise, vinegar, salt and pepper.

> [Incidentally, that place is flogging plonk at $6/glass, but only
> around $18/bottle -- enough to make drunks of us all!]

Maybe theirs is very large glass. :-)

Victor

Thanks for the suggestions, Victor. I'll file this away in case I
stumble across Matjes somewhere. :-)

Incidentally, I asked the owner of the main (currently only in fact)
local deli about Matjes today. She had heard of them, but had never
tried them (it's basically an Italian speciality deli). She did have
a couple of bodies on display that may have been those "salted
herring" you refer to -- but I gave them a pass in lieu of a few
slices of a good spicey salami for a lunch sandwich. :-)

In article >,
(Victor Sack) wrote:
>Phred > wrote:
>
>> When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
>> fish/fillets?
>
>Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted and
>stored in barrels for a few days only, just enough to ferment the gut
>enzymes (it is only those enzymes that ferment, not the fish itself, as
>would be the case with the Swedish surströmming which many people
>consider just rotten :-). Matjes is still practically raw.
>
>> I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
>>
>> "Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
>> bread and salad"
>>
>> Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
>> what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
>> dining on it?
>
>Be sure it is indeed labelled "matjes", not just "salted herring" which
>is different. Matjes fillets need no preparation and can be eaten "as
>is" (it's the same with "salted herring", too). However, most often
>matjes is served with onion rings or chopped onions, and black rye bread
>of the pumpernickel type. You can also add sour cream. Or you can make
>a salad with matjes containing all or any of the following: pickled
>cucumbers, sour apples, boiled potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, boiled, baked
>or pickled beetroots, sour cream, mayonnaise, vinegar, salt and pepper.
>
>> [Incidentally, that place is flogging plonk at $6/glass, but only
>> around $18/bottle -- enough to make drunks of us all!]
>
>Maybe theirs is very large glass. :-)
>
>Victor

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Victor Sack wrote:
> Phred > wrote:
>
> > When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to salted
> > fish/fillets?
>
> Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted and
> stored in barrels for a few days only, just enough to ferment the gut
> enzymes (it is only those enzymes that ferment, not the fish itself, as
> would be the case with the Swedish surstr=F6mming which many people
> consider just rotten :-). Matjes is still practically raw.
>
> > I notice that the restaurant you mentioned above says:
> >
> > "Matjes Herring fillets - salted herring with chopped onions, spelt
> > bread and salad"
> >
> > Assuming the possibility of finding them here in a deli or similar,
> > what preparation is needed of those "salted herring" fillets before
> > dining on it?
>
> Be sure it is indeed labelled "matjes", not just "salted herring" which
> is different. Matjes fillets need no preparation and can be eaten "as
> is" (it's the same with "salted herring", too). However, most often
> matjes is served with onion rings or chopped onions, and black rye bread
> of the pumpernickel type. You can also add sour cream. Or you can make
> a salad with matjes containing all or any of the following: pickled
> cucumbers, sour apples, boiled potatoes, hard-boiled eggs, boiled, baked
> or pickled beetroots, sour cream, mayonnaise, vinegar, salt and pepper.

Matjes simply means herring that has not yet spawned... young herring
that is less fatty and more tender than mature herring... the
antithesis of schmaltz herring... is prepared in as many ways as any
other herring, salted, brined, pickled, even cooked in cans. In the US
matjes is typically offered pickled in wine sauce, whole or fillet
halves. Nowadays in the US matjes is difficut to find other than cut
into small bits in a jar, and even jarred is becoming less available.
NYC appetizing stores usually carry matjes but there are fewer and
fewer of those now too... there are still some old fahioned appetizing
stores in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, the Russian enclave... there one
can still find the real deal matjes, imported in wooden barrels from
the Baltics. There they will slice and add the sauce, and onions too
if you ask. I don't much care for matjes with pickled onions, if I
have onions at all I prefer they be fresh sliced raw.... if you see
that the matjes is displayed mixed with the onions don't buy, the
pickled onions should be taken from their own separate container. I
also prefer the whole matjes, has better texture than the fillets
(firmer), and a whole matjes costs the same as a fillet so is a better
deal price wise too, a whole fish instead of just a half... I don't
mind working around the bones. I much prefer my bialy and a schmear
with matjes than lox.

Sheldon

You should try the Italian salad dressing package and mix it in with 1
lb. of groud beef.
The package wieghs .07 ounces.

Sheldon > wrote:

> Matjes simply means herring that has not yet spawned... young herring
> that is less fatty and more tender than mature herring... the
> antithesis of schmaltz herring... is prepared in as many ways as any
> other herring, salted, brined, pickled, even cooked in cans. In the US
> matjes is typically offered pickled in wine sauce, whole or fillet
> halves. Nowadays in the US matjes is difficut to find other than cut
> into small bits in a jar, and even jarred is becoming less available.

Reading the above info is distressing, I have to say, and not just
because matjes is apparently so hard to find in the US. If the term
"matjes" is used in the US for any kind of young herring preparation, it
is probably yet another example of the general supplanting the
particular in the American version of English, like using 'hamburger' to
mean 'minced/ground beef'. What if one wants to order matjes in its
lightly salted form usual in Holland and Germany? Is one supposed to
describe the manufacturing process to the vendor and hope he even knows
what exactly he is selling?

In Germany, "matjes" is specifically young virginal herring that is
lightly salted. The best is still imported from Holland and is usually
North Sea herring, not Baltic one. Such matjes is only very slightly
salty, soft and plump and almost melting in the mouth - simply
wonderful. Personally, I would be extremely disappointed if I were
served matjes marinated in vinegar and sugar and whatever else is used
in some other herring preparations. There is a good article about
matjes at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soused_herrings>.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote:

> > Phred > wrote:
> >
> > >>When you say "right out of the barrel", are you referring to
salted fish/fillets?
>
>
> Yes. It is a young virginal Dutch herring which is lightly salted
> and stored in barrels for a few days only,


Victor, What happens if the "virginal" herring had a little G'spusi
when she found out she is about to be killed and eaten? Is she no
longer worthy of being a Matjes herring or herringette? Are only the
Dutch that strict or is that universal? Who acts as Sittenpolizei,
other herrings or trouts or carps? No wonder that Matjes herrings are
no longer on many menus.