We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
before 10 pm.

This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
outage in the winter is the pits!

~patches~ wrote:
> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
snip
>
> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> outage in the winter is the pits!
>
two words.

Coleman Stove.

del cecchi

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

~patches~ wrote:
> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> before 10 pm.
>
> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> outage in the winter is the pits!

but it is actually kind of fun bbqing in a snow storm! we keep our bbq
on a covered back porch in the winter, with a wall on the west side,
which protects from the wind. if we lose power everything gets grilled,
and water is heated on top of the pellet stove inside. myraide

~patches~ wrote:
> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I
> was planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to
> get the ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't
> realize it because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage
> for the campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my
> first clue and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing
> entry.

I don't know how big your campstove is, but you couldn't have carried it
through the house? Must be a big stove!

So I fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the
> side burner then proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I
> assured myself the power would be back on but took the precaution of
> covering my yogurt maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of
> chili filled the air outside and the power was still off. A couple
> of neighbours were in a teather because they couldn't cook and had
> nothing to eat, something I've never understood. One was quite funny
> because his wife is away and she does all the cooking. I invited him
> for dinner but he doesn't like chili.

His tough luck, then. He couldn't have been *that* hungry if he turned down
a free meal.

Everyone here knows the power
> goes out quite often some refuse to prepare for it. It's similar in
> the snowstorms we have - a couple of feet of snow dumped and at least
> one of the neighbours all of a sudden remembers they're out of milk
> which ultimately means all the other neighbours has to help get this
> one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the mom & pop is closed anyway. I
> baked biscuits on the grill to go with the chili so we had a nice
> meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles. Then we played cribbage
> for awhile while listening to a few neighbours loudly complaining
> about the power outage. We lent one of them a flashlight because he
> couldn't find his. The power finally came on just before 10 pm.
>
It's odd since you live in an area where there are frequent outages the
neighbors should be so outraged by the loss of power. I don't have that
problem unless it's a doozy of a storm, but I'm prepared for whatever
contingency.

> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
> I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
> and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something!

I'm sure you were! I don't have many electric gadgets, although my stove is
electric (that's what came with the apartment). I won't do electric
can-openers and stuff like that.

I am more
> determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
> during a power outage in the winter is the pits!

I wish I could have a gas range but the apartment complex isn't set up for
it. I keep a load of lump charcoal for my grill. I've turned out some
darned good meals on the trusty Weber kettle in times of emergencies. I was
without power for a week once and managed to eat well. Having cast iron
cookware sure does help. I don't understand people who won't prepare for
emergencies, particularly if they know they crop up frequently. We don't
get snow down here but sometimes get ice-storms which are much worse. Even
then I don't tend to lose power for more than a couple of hours. And I have
a fireplace. I can cook in that if I need to.

What's worse, to me, is when it's 90+F degrees and the only method of
cooking is outdoors over a hot fire and trying to keep ice in the ice chest
and freezer so all the food doesn't thaw out.

Jill

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> before 10 pm.
>
> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> outage in the winter is the pits!
>

Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...

Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
>>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
>>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
>>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
>>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
>>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
>>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
>>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
>>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
>>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
>>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
>>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
>>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
>>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
>>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
>>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
>>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
>>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
>>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
>>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
>>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
>>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
>>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
>>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
>>before 10 pm.
>>
>>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
>>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
>>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
>>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
>>outage in the winter is the pits!
>>
>
>
> Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
>
> Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?


Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.

-Bob

Del Cecchi wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>
> snip
>
>>
>> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
>> I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
>> and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more
>> determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
>> during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
>>
> two words.
>
> Coleman Stove.
>
> del cecchi
>
Yes we have one but had the side door of the garage so piled up I
couldn't open it and the garage door opener is electric so no getting
into the garage. Even then cooking outdoors in the winter when the
power is out is not very pleasant since usually the wind is whipping
copious amounts of snow. We've used the coleman in the garage before
when the wind wasn't whipping snow into the garage.

~patches~ > wrote:

>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
>planning a pot of chili for dinner

Sorry you had to go through the mess, but it sounds like you made the
best of it. After a couple of past disasters and before the y2k
scare, I became a sort of "survivalist". The main reason the power
issue came to be number one is that my house is built over a spring.
(Kicks self in butt a thousand times). We keep a large supply of food
and several hundred gallons of water available at all times (spent 2
weeks without water - not fun). Anyway, the spring issue forced me to
commit funds that I really didn't want to let go of. I installed a
fairly large solar system to power auxilary water pumps, amateur radio
gear and I wired 12 volt fluorescent lighting fixtures throughout the
place. I have inverters in case the need for 110 arises (charging
batteries, etc). Besides the normal flashlights and candles and
whatnot, I felt the need to further supplement lighting. I got a
baygen windup lantern, the solar powered lighting and a number of
Krill electroluminescent lightsticks from www.kriana.com. Go for the
Standard green 180. Once your night vision is going, it will
illuminate a 30 by 15 foot room with ease and run 180 hours on 2 AA
batteries. For the heat and cooking needs - there's the fireplace,
gas grill, charcoal grill, 2 Kerosene heaters (great for heating
soups, beans etc as long as you leave the lid on to keep the kerosene
taste out). Coleman style backback stove, coffee-can chimney stove,
standalone propane burner. If all else fails, I could dig a pit and
build a plain old campfire. All I'm saying is, yeah, you're right,
cooking without power in winter is no fun - on the other hand, I hope
any disaster happens in winter because the issue of food storage
becomes a non-issue. So far it's all been in hot weather and it was a
real pain. The other point is that you'd be amazed how resourceful
you become when you're forced to do so, even if you haven't planned at
all. I think most people (as long as some sort of "home base" is
still intact and not completely washed away) have sort of an inate
problem solving and survival capability. BTW, if you DO happen to do
the planning and preparing like we did, you absolutely MUST do test
runs on everything. I found some huge problems in the original setup
we had. OTOH, you can live a long time with extra clothes, a few
2-litre bottles of water and some canned green beans if that's all you
have available. The worst aspect of huge disasters like the one we
just witnessed is that no matter how much people planned, it was all
washed away and useless. You can only"do what you can do and no
more".

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

Myraide wrote:

<snip>
>>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
>>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
>>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
>>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
>>outage in the winter is the pits!
>
>
> but it is actually kind of fun bbqing in a snow storm! we keep our bbq
> on a covered back porch in the winter, with a wall on the west side,
> which protects from the wind. if we lose power everything gets grilled,
> and water is heated on top of the pellet stove inside. myraide
>
It is fun and we do it quite a bit but not during snow storms when the
power is out. We've been looking at a pellet stove as we used to heat
with wood. I never worried about the power outages but this house only
has forced air. How do you like the pellet stove and is it inexpensive
to run?

~patches~ wrote:
> Del Cecchi wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>
>>
>> snip
>>
>>>
>>> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
>>> I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
>>> and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more
>>> determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
>>> during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
>>>
>> two words.
>>
>> Coleman Stove.
>>
>> del cecchi
>>
> Yes we have one but had the side door of the garage so piled up I
> couldn't open it and the garage door opener is electric so no getting
> into the garage. Even then cooking outdoors in the winter when the
> power is out is not very pleasant since usually the wind is whipping
> copious amounts of snow. We've used the coleman in the garage before
> when the wind wasn't whipping snow into the garage.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a coleman stove in the kitchen. Not really
any different than burning natural gas or propane. Keep it in a closet
or in the basement.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

zxcvbob wrote:
> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > ~patches~ > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> >>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> >>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> >>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> >>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> >>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> >>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> >>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> >>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> >>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> >>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> >>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> >>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> >>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> >>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> >>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> >>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> >>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> >>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> >>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> >>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> >>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> >>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> >>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> >>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> >>before 10 pm.
> >>
> >>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> >>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> >>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> >>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> >>outage in the winter is the pits!
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> >
> > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
>
>
> Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
> It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.
>
> -Bob

Nonsense.


Sheldon

I read this post and it reminded me of fireless cookers....they were
more popular in the 19th century and are basically an insulated box.
if you bring the food to a boil for a few minutes and then put it in
the insulated container (a cooler lined with blankets and newspapers
works) then you leave it untouched for a few hours. It continues to
cook nicely. We would do this up in the mountains where we had no
electricity and wanted a hot meal when we returned from hiking.

it reminds me i need to get some more gas for my grill!

j

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> Del Cecchi wrote:
>
> > ~patches~ wrote:
> >
> >> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> >
> > snip
> >
> >>
> >> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
> >> I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
> >> and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more
> >> determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
> >> during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
> >>
> > two words.
> >
> > Coleman Stove.
> >
> > del cecchi
> >
> Yes we have one but had the side door of the garage so piled up I
> couldn't open it and the garage door opener is electric so no getting
> into the garage. Even then cooking outdoors in the winter when the
> power is out is not very pleasant since usually the wind is whipping
> copious amounts of snow. We've used the coleman in the garage before
> when the wind wasn't whipping snow into the garage.

Don't you have a door from the garage into the house?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > ~patches~ > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> >>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> >>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> >>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> >>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> >>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> >>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> >>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> >>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> >>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> >>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> >>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> >>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> >>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> >>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> >>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> >>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> >>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> >>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> >>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> >>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> >>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> >>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> >>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> >>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> >>before 10 pm.
> >>
> >>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> >>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> >>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> >>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> >>outage in the winter is the pits!
> >>
> >
> >
> > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> >
> > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
>
>
> Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
> It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.
>
> -Bob

Cool, thanks!
I do have a bag of sterno and a small sterno burner. :-)
Was just not sure if it was safe for indoor use.

But, I also have a coleman camp stove.
I just need to have dad teach me how to use one.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article . com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> zxcvbob wrote:
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > ~patches~ > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> > >>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> > >>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> > >>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> > >>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> > >>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> > >>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> > >>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> > >>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> > >>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> > >>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> > >>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> > >>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> > >>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> > >>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> > >>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> > >>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> > >>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> > >>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> > >>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> > >>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> > >>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> > >>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> > >>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> > >>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> > >>before 10 pm.
> > >>
> > >>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> > >>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> > >>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> > >>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> > >>outage in the winter is the pits!
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> > >
> > > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
> >
> >
> > Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
> > It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.
> >
> > -Bob
>
> Nonsense.
>
>
> Sheldon
>

What is your experience/objection to using sterno indoors Sheldon?
If you know something about it, please speak up! :-)

My house is all electric and if this storm causes a lengthy power
outage, it'd be easier for me to use the sterno stove for heating up
soup and stuff instead of dragging out the propane burner and cooking
outside in the rain.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

jmcquown wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I
>>was planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to
>>get the ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't
>>realize it because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage
>>for the campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my
>>first clue and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing
>>entry.
>
>
> I don't know how big your campstove is, but you couldn't have carried it
> through the house? Must be a big stove!

The campstove is a coleman 2-burner but you can't use it in the house.
I couldn't get into the garage as one door was blocked and the door that
lets the car in wouldn't work without power. The garage is not attached
to the house.
>
> So I fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the
>
>>side burner then proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I
>>assured myself the power would be back on but took the precaution of
>>covering my yogurt maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of
>>chili filled the air outside and the power was still off. A couple
>>of neighbours were in a teather because they couldn't cook and had
>>nothing to eat, something I've never understood. One was quite funny
>>because his wife is away and she does all the cooking. I invited him
>>for dinner but he doesn't like chili.
>
>
> His tough luck, then. He couldn't have been *that* hungry if he turned down
> a free meal.

Well yes but he's elderly and is used to the old ways of the wife doing
everything and he is a very good neighbour. I kinda felt sorry for him
because he really just looked very lost as to how he would manage. I
pity him if she dies before him.
>
> Everyone here knows the power
>
>>goes out quite often some refuse to prepare for it. It's similar in
>>the snowstorms we have - a couple of feet of snow dumped and at least
>>one of the neighbours all of a sudden remembers they're out of milk
>>which ultimately means all the other neighbours has to help get this
>>one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the mom & pop is closed anyway. I
>>baked biscuits on the grill to go with the chili so we had a nice
>>meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles. Then we played cribbage
>>for awhile while listening to a few neighbours loudly complaining
>>about the power outage. We lent one of them a flashlight because he
>>couldn't find his. The power finally came on just before 10 pm.
>>
>
> It's odd since you live in an area where there are frequent outages the
> neighbors should be so outraged by the loss of power. I don't have that
> problem unless it's a doozy of a storm, but I'm prepared for whatever
> contingency.

It's the norm here and there's nothing we can do about it. The lines
are above ground so are less protected than buried lines and despite the
problems the lines won't be buried anytime soon. We can't get cable or
high speed internet here either. We keep an old fashion rotary dial
telephone because when the power goes out the cordless phones won't
work. People here are happy to have location, location, location as
well a good neighbours yet they will **** and moan each time the power
goes out. The point is people here know it happens so they should be
prepared period. I was negligent at not being able to get to the
campstove but I was still able to cook.
>
>
>>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
>>I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
>>and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something!
>
>
> I'm sure you were! I don't have many electric gadgets, although my stove is
> electric (that's what came with the apartment). I won't do electric
> can-openers and stuff like that.

I gave up electric can-openers a long time ago. They are totally useless!
>
> I am more
>
>>determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
>>during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
>
>
> I wish I could have a gas range but the apartment complex isn't set up for
> it. I keep a load of lump charcoal for my grill. I've turned out some
> darned good meals on the trusty Weber kettle in times of emergencies. I was
> without power for a week once and managed to eat well. Having cast iron
> cookware sure does help. I don't understand people who won't prepare for
> emergencies, particularly if they know they crop up frequently. We don't
> get snow down here but sometimes get ice-storms which are much worse. Even
> then I don't tend to lose power for more than a couple of hours. And I have
> a fireplace. I can cook in that if I need to.

A week is a long time to go without power but enterprising people do it
all the time. I don't understand if you live in an area that you
wouldn't be prepared. Heck I could make several meals that didn't need
cooking and then cook what I needed. I agree with the cast iron and I
like using enamelware on the bbq. You can use the bbq as an oven so
most things are fair game. Unlike our last house we don't have a
fireplace or woodstove but that is on our lists of improvements. During
nice weather or even in the cold if the wind isn't whipping around we
have an outdoor firepit. I have a tripod for cooking stews, soups, and
chili over and a grill for meats and veggies. We have enough wood to
see us through an emergency and then some so if the gas wasn't working I
would have resorted to that. During the y2k scare there was some
speculation the gas wouldn't work if the power was out for any length of
time so I'm prepared that way. Most times though a power outage of 1 or
2 hours or less and you could easily get by without cooking.
>
> What's worse, to me, is when it's 90+F degrees and the only method of
> cooking is outdoors over a hot fire and trying to keep ice in the ice chest
> and freezer so all the food doesn't thaw out.

Yep! From camping experience that is a pain. If you can find a source
of dry ice that would be easier than reg ice. My concern last night
really revolved around the freezers. One is in the garage and the temps
were in the low 80's. We have a smaller chest freezer and side-by-side
in the house. The rule of thumb is not to open unless absolutely
necessary. The last major power outage was almost 48 hrs. We topped
the chest freezers with heavy blankets and they were fine but I really
worried about the one in the garage. IMO the side-by-side is useless
and wastes energy even though it looks good. It's on my hit list of
appliances to replace.
>
> Jill
>
>

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

<snip>
> Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
>
> Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?

The problem with sterno is over time it evapourates so after a period of
time the tin becomes useless. This came from our y2k preparedness. I
would think sterno like anything burning would create carbon monoxide
but it must not be much because sterno is used in chaffing dishes. We
got this really neat stuff - compressed tioxane from an army surplus for
y2k. Each pack is enough to cook one meal and after the y2k scare
passed it made dandy firestarter for campfires. We still have a couple
of packs left just in case. By now they are likely explosives

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> <snip>
> > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> >
> > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
>
> The problem with sterno is over time it evapourates so after a period of
> time the tin becomes useless. This came from our y2k preparedness. I
> would think sterno like anything burning would create carbon monoxide
> but it must not be much because sterno is used in chaffing dishes. We
> got this really neat stuff - compressed tioxane from an army surplus for
> y2k. Each pack is enough to cook one meal and after the y2k scare
> passed it made dandy firestarter for campfires. We still have a couple
> of packs left just in case. By now they are likely explosives

heh!

The only thing I stocked up on for Y2K was cat and dog food.
Stored 30 days worth!

We have 2 weeks worth right now just in case of flash flooding.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
snip
>
> This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined than
> ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power outage in
> the winter is the pits!
>
I've canned two bushels of tomatoes on an old Coleman stove when the power
went out after I started. It just takes longer. We always have plenty of
propane, charcoal, firewood and oil for lamps on hand. It pays to have some
sort of backup.
Janet

AlleyGator wrote:

> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
>>planning a pot of chili for dinner
>
>
> Sorry you had to go through the mess, but it sounds like you made the
> best of it. After a couple of past disasters and before the y2k
> scare, I became a sort of "survivalist". The main reason the power

It really wasn't all that bad since we had full tummies, entertainment,
and supplies. Funny thing was I could use my laptop if I really needed
to for music or internet but no one in their right mind would connect
with lightening in the area. We chose not to. I was ready to read a
Harry Potter - my latest interest - ebook on my PDA but thought the
company with DH was better time spent. I have to say that we are more
of the survivalist type.

> issue came to be number one is that my house is built over a spring.
> (Kicks self in butt a thousand times). We keep a large supply of food
> and several hundred gallons of water available at all times (spent 2
> weeks without water - not fun). Anyway, the spring issue forced me to
> commit funds that I really didn't want to let go of. I installed a

How do you store that amount of water?

> fairly large solar system to power auxilary water pumps, amateur radio
> gear and I wired 12 volt fluorescent lighting fixtures throughout the
> place. I have inverters in case the need for 110 arises (charging
> batteries, etc). Besides the normal flashlights and candles and

We don't have inverters yet. DH was leary of the battery blow-up
problem and needing an extra battery shed but we have a lot of things
solar including batter chargers even for AAA, D, and C size. They sit
in the sunny windows charging up the batteries. For most lighting we use
the coleman florescent, candles and oil lanterns. I like the lanterns
myself. We have a solar powered/windup radio so we can get local radio
stations.

> whatnot, I felt the need to further supplement lighting. I got a
> baygen windup lantern, the solar powered lighting and a number of
> Krill electroluminescent lightsticks from www.kriana.com. Go for the
> Standard green 180. Once your night vision is going, it will
> illuminate a 30 by 15 foot room with ease and run 180 hours on 2 AA
> batteries. For the heat and cooking needs - there's the fireplace,
> gas grill, charcoal grill, 2 Kerosene heaters (great for heating
> soups, beans etc as long as you leave the lid on to keep the kerosene
> taste out). Coleman style backback stove, coffee-can chimney stove,
> standalone propane burner. If all else fails, I could dig a pit and
> build a plain old campfire. All I'm saying is, yeah, you're right,

Yep we don't have a fireplace but we have a coleman cookstove, gas
grill, wood, and a firepit. We have a tripod for the firepit to hang
heavy pots, a grill, and a sandwich maker. We won't starve that's for sure!

> cooking without power in winter is no fun - on the other hand, I hope
> any disaster happens in winter because the issue of food storage
> becomes a non-issue. So far it's all been in hot weather and it was a
> real pain. The other point is that you'd be amazed how resourceful

That is the truth! When the power goes out in the summer is when I
worry the most. I'd hate to think of my freezers ending up with rotting
food.
> you become when you're forced to do so, even if you haven't planned at
> all. I think most people (as long as some sort of "home base" is
> still intact and not completely washed away) have sort of an inate
> problem solving and survival capability. BTW, if you DO happen to do
> the planning and preparing like we did, you absolutely MUST do test
> runs on everything. I found some huge problems in the original setup

Yep did all that which is why we don't get too hung up on *you can't get
out of the driveway for 4 days because the snowplow hasn't cleared your
driveway* or even like yesterday. I knew I could easily put a meal on
the table and quite frankly thought most around me could too if they
used a little imagination. I don't need to cook to feed us.


> we had. OTOH, you can live a long time with extra clothes, a few
> 2-litre bottles of water and some canned green beans if that's all you
> have available. The worst aspect of huge disasters like the one we
> just witnessed is that no matter how much people planned, it was all
> washed away and useless. You can only"do what you can do and no
> more".

I thought of that too. I am prepared way more than most but if God
forbid it was suddenly washed away what would I do? Well, I think I
would turn toward intuition and get myself out of the area. With the
y2k I learned a lot about survival as to edible weeds/plants. I'd
gather whatever important items I would need for survival - matches,
candles, flashlight, solar battery charger, dried foods (I have a ton of
these), water container, and that type of stuff. A change of clothes
would be nice but not paramount. Being a gardener I might grab a few
seeds but then I would hit the road.
>
> --
> The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
> At least now I have an excuse.

Del Cecchi wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>> Del Cecchi wrote:
>>
>>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> snip
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This recent outage had me looking around at all the
>>>> gadgets/appliance I use that run on electricity. I was glad the
>>>> breadmaker wasn't on and I hadn't been in the middle of canning
>>>> something! I am more determined than ever to convert to a gas
>>>> range. Cooking outdoors during a power outage in the winter is the
>>>> pits!
>>>>
>>> two words.
>>>
>>> Coleman Stove.
>>>
>>> del cecchi
>>>
>> Yes we have one but had the side door of the garage so piled up I
>> couldn't open it and the garage door opener is electric so no getting
>> into the garage. Even then cooking outdoors in the winter when the
>> power is out is not very pleasant since usually the wind is whipping
>> copious amounts of snow. We've used the coleman in the garage before
>> when the wind wasn't whipping snow into the garage.
>
>
> I wouldn't hesitate to use a coleman stove in the kitchen. Not really
> any different than burning natural gas or propane. Keep it in a closet
> or in the basement.
>
Our coleman uses white gas (naptha fuel). The flames when first
starting will easily shoot 5' in the air. There's no way I would
attempt to use it in the house or under an awning. We don't have a
basement because of a high water table. Now maybe a new propane coleman
stove would be different but I still don't think you are supposed to
use them indoors.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "Sheldon" > wrote:
>
> > zxcvbob wrote:
> > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article >,
> > > > ~patches~ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
> > > >>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I was
> > > >>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get the
> > > >>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> > > >>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> > > >>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first clue
> > > >>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> > > >>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner then
> > > >>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> > > >>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> > > >>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> > > >>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in a
> > > >>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> > > >>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away and
> > > >>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't like
> > > >>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some refuse
> > > >>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple of
> > > >>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a sudden
> > > >>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> > > >>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> > > >>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> > > >>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> > > >>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few neighbours
> > > >>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> > > >>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on just
> > > >>before 10 pm.
> > > >>
> > > >>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> > > >>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> > > >>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> > > >>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> > > >>outage in the winter is the pits!
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> > > >
> > > > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
> > > It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.
> > >
> > > -Bob
> >
> > Nonsense.
> >
> >
> > Sheldon
> >
>
> What is your experience/objection to using sterno indoors Sheldon?
> If you know something about it, please speak up! :-)
>
> My house is all electric and if this storm causes a lengthy power
> outage, it'd be easier for me to use the sterno stove for heating up
> soup and stuff instead of dragging out the propane burner and cooking
> outside in the rain.

I kinda like "grillin' in the rain"... is that a song... don't you own
an umbrella?

Sterno is okay for small keep-warm jobs but I'd never attempt to use it
for cooking indoors. You are far safer with propane, which can safely
be used indoors... my kitchen stove uses propane. There are portable
table top propane stoves that operate quite well with a small
cylinder... far safer than sterno in every respect. A small propane
cylinder is also much more economical as there is no waste... with
sterno once the can is opened you have to use it all as there is no way
to effectively reseal the can and it evaporates rather quickly... in
fact sterno evaporates from factory sealed cans so check them every six
months.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Sheldon

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>Del Cecchi wrote:
>>
>>
>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during storms.
>>>
>>>snip
>>>
>>>
>>>>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
>>>>I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
>>>>and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more
>>>>determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
>>>>during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
>>>>
>>>
>>>two words.
>>>
>>>Coleman Stove.
>>>
>>>del cecchi
>>>
>>
>>Yes we have one but had the side door of the garage so piled up I
>>couldn't open it and the garage door opener is electric so no getting
>>into the garage. Even then cooking outdoors in the winter when the
>>power is out is not very pleasant since usually the wind is whipping
>>copious amounts of snow. We've used the coleman in the garage before
>>when the wind wasn't whipping snow into the garage.
>
>
> Don't you have a door from the garage into the house?

No the garage is detached from the house. We have to walk about 20' to
get to the garage. There is no access from the house

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
<snip>
> What is your experience/objection to using sterno indoors Sheldon?
> If you know something about it, please speak up! :-)
>

I can't answer for him and prefer not to read his posts a little flaw
with killfiles but I will answer your question.

> My house is all electric and if this storm causes a lengthy power
> outage, it'd be easier for me to use the sterno stove for heating up
> soup and stuff instead of dragging out the propane burner and cooking
> outside in the rain.

Our house is gas and electric in that the cooking is electric inside,
the dryer, hot water tank, furnace, and grill is gas. But the fan on
the furnace wont't work if the power is out so solar back-up is great.
If you have a spot outside such as the garage, sunporch, or whatever and
the elements won't bother you whatever you have. I know restaurants use
sterno to keep things warm. I question whether it would actually reheat
things to the desired temp. Now most restaurants are considerably
larger than your kitchen so maybe you might have a problem but they use
them in chaffing dishes. IMO I would not use sterno as a main cooking
fuel because of the instability and the co problem even for emergency
situations. In emergencies you want your equipment to perform without
worry. I can't say that sterno fits that criteria.
>
> Cheers!

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>
>>>Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
>>>
>>>Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
>>
>>The problem with sterno is over time it evapourates so after a period of
>>time the tin becomes useless. This came from our y2k preparedness. I
>>would think sterno like anything burning would create carbon monoxide
>>but it must not be much because sterno is used in chaffing dishes. We
>>got this really neat stuff - compressed tioxane from an army surplus for
>>y2k. Each pack is enough to cook one meal and after the y2k scare
>>passed it made dandy firestarter for campfires. We still have a couple
>>of packs left just in case. By now they are likely explosives
>
>
> heh!
>
> The only thing I stocked up on for Y2K was cat and dog food.
> Stored 30 days worth!
>
> We have 2 weeks worth right now just in case of flash flooding

Hey, I did one better. Besides my y2k stores I stocked up on a couple
of cats and one dog. I know for a fact cats make nice Chinese chicken
balls (local restaurant charge and found guilty) but I'm not sure how to
cook dog. At any rate I want one of those large meaty bread not one of
those Taco Bell dogs We had a nice aquarium of pond fish going too.
DH wasn't too excited about turning the pool into a trout farm. DH
actually turned a couple of pond fish into fishicles. I can't believe
it. I hear all are excellent food iffn'n ya be hungry enough

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
>
> I also have a coleman camp stove.
> I just need to have dad teach me how to use one.

If it's one of Coleman's new propane type it's fine but never use any
white cas stove indoors.

In article >,
"Janet Bostwick" > wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
> snip
> >
> > This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance I
> > use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and I
> > hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined than
> > ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power outage in
> > the winter is the pits!
> >
> I've canned two bushels of tomatoes on an old Coleman stove when the power
> went out after I started. It just takes longer. We always have plenty of
> propane, charcoal, firewood and oil for lamps on hand. It pays to have some
> sort of backup.
> Janet
>
>

My mom always took her pressure cooker on long camping trips...

In Alaska, she canned longneck clams and wild Salmon using the coleman
stove at the campground, and in Oregon, wild blackberries. :-)

Jars and stuff could always be found in any of the larger towns where we
went camping.

Mom was cool.

<sigh>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article . com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > "Sheldon" > wrote:
> >
> > > zxcvbob wrote:
> > > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > ~patches~ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during
> > > > >>storms.
> > > > >>Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a dilly. I
> > > > >>was
> > > > >>planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to get
> > > > >>the
> > > > >>ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't realize it
> > > > >>because I started the ground beef and headed to the garage for the
> > > > >>campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my first
> > > > >>clue
> > > > >>and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing entry. So I
> > > > >>fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the side burner
> > > > >>then
> > > > >>proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I assured myself the
> > > > >>power would be back on but took the precaution of covering my yogurt
> > > > >>maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of chili filled the air
> > > > >>outside and the power was still off. A couple of neighbours were in
> > > > >>a
> > > > >>teather because they couldn't cook and had nothing to eat, something
> > > > >>I've never understood. One was quite funny because his wife is away
> > > > >>and
> > > > >>she does all the cooking. I invited him for dinner but he doesn't
> > > > >>like
> > > > >>chili. Everyone here knows the power goes out quite often some
> > > > >>refuse
> > > > >>to prepare for it. It's similar in the snowstorms we have - a couple
> > > > >>of
> > > > >>feet of snow dumped and at least one of the neighbours all of a
> > > > >>sudden
> > > > >>remembers they're out of milk which ultimately means all the other
> > > > >>neighbours has to help get this one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the
> > > > >>mom & pop is closed anyway. I baked biscuits on the grill to go with
> > > > >>the chili so we had a nice meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles.
> > > > >>Then we played cribbage for awhile while listening to a few
> > > > >>neighbours
> > > > >>loudly complaining about the power outage. We lent one of them a
> > > > >>flashlight because he couldn't find his. The power finally came on
> > > > >>just
> > > > >>before 10 pm.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>This recent outage had me looking around at all the gadgets/appliance
> > > > >>I
> > > > >>use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on and
> > > > >>I
> > > > >>hadn't been in the middle of canning something! I am more determined
> > > > >>than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors during a power
> > > > >>outage in the winter is the pits!
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it does eventually -- but only if it starts running out of oxygen.
> > > > It should be of less concern than operating a conventional gas stove.
> > > >
> > > > -Bob
> > >
> > > Nonsense.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sheldon
> > >
> >
> > What is your experience/objection to using sterno indoors Sheldon?
> > If you know something about it, please speak up! :-)
> >
> > My house is all electric and if this storm causes a lengthy power
> > outage, it'd be easier for me to use the sterno stove for heating up
> > soup and stuff instead of dragging out the propane burner and cooking
> > outside in the rain.
>
> I kinda like "grillin' in the rain"... is that a song... don't you own
> an umbrella?

Guess I could rig one <G>
I do have one of those large golfing umbrellas.
Mom gave it to me for Christmas one year.

>
> Sterno is okay for small keep-warm jobs but I'd never attempt to use it
> for cooking indoors. You are far safer with propane, which can safely
> be used indoors... my kitchen stove uses propane. There are portable
> table top propane stoves that operate quite well with a small
> cylinder... far safer than sterno in every respect. A small propane
> cylinder is also much more economical as there is no waste... with
> sterno once the can is opened you have to use it all as there is no way
> to effectively reseal the can and it evaporates rather quickly... in
> fact sterno evaporates from factory sealed cans so check them every six
> months.

Might be time to dig the coleman stove out of the storage shed and learn
to use it eh? 'specially during hurricane season!!!

Did not know that sterno evaporated that badly. I've got about 20 cans
of the stuff in a box in the shed with the camping items.

Guess I ought to open them and check them out? <sigh>

One neat thing we were told about for emergency heating that was
considered safe.

Take a small coffee can, stuff a roll of toilet paper into it. Pour a
bottle of Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol into it and light it. The toilet
tissue acts as a giant wick.

A little expanded metal or 1/2" hardware cloth and you have a mini stove
for cooking as well? Cheaper than sterno to prolly'.

Cheers!
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...bMed&list_uids
> =638911&dopt=Abstract
>
> Sheldon

Muchas Gracias!


>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> <snip>
> > What is your experience/objection to using sterno indoors Sheldon?
> > If you know something about it, please speak up! :-)
> >
>
> I can't answer for him and prefer not to read his posts a little flaw
> with killfiles but I will answer your question.
>
> > My house is all electric and if this storm causes a lengthy power
> > outage, it'd be easier for me to use the sterno stove for heating up
> > soup and stuff instead of dragging out the propane burner and cooking
> > outside in the rain.
>
> Our house is gas and electric in that the cooking is electric inside,
> the dryer, hot water tank, furnace, and grill is gas. But the fan on
> the furnace wont't work if the power is out so solar back-up is great.
> If you have a spot outside such as the garage, sunporch, or whatever and
> the elements won't bother you whatever you have. I know restaurants use
> sterno to keep things warm. I question whether it would actually reheat
> things to the desired temp. Now most restaurants are considerably
> larger than your kitchen so maybe you might have a problem but they use
> them in chaffing dishes. IMO I would not use sterno as a main cooking
> fuel because of the instability and the co problem even for emergency
> situations. In emergencies you want your equipment to perform without
> worry. I can't say that sterno fits that criteria.


Well, it IS used for heating pre-cooked food for camping and if you have
enough canned goods on hand, cooking would not be much of an issue. ;-)

But, methinks a coleman stove would be more efficient, AND more
interesting!

Of course I also have the big BBQ grill out front with LOTS of firewood,
and I've done enough camp cooking to be able to deal with that. ;-)

And I have plenty of cast iron...
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > ~patches~ > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >>
> >><snip>
> >>
> >>>Sterno is not great, but it works for backup...
> >>>
> >>>Anyone know if it generates corbon monoxide?
> >>
> >>The problem with sterno is over time it evapourates so after a period of
> >>time the tin becomes useless. This came from our y2k preparedness. I
> >>would think sterno like anything burning would create carbon monoxide
> >>but it must not be much because sterno is used in chaffing dishes. We
> >>got this really neat stuff - compressed tioxane from an army surplus for
> >>y2k. Each pack is enough to cook one meal and after the y2k scare
> >>passed it made dandy firestarter for campfires. We still have a couple
> >>of packs left just in case. By now they are likely explosives
> >
> >
> > heh!
> >
> > The only thing I stocked up on for Y2K was cat and dog food.
> > Stored 30 days worth!
> >
> > We have 2 weeks worth right now just in case of flash flooding
>
> Hey, I did one better. Besides my y2k stores I stocked up on a couple
> of cats and one dog. I know for a fact cats make nice Chinese chicken
> balls (local restaurant charge and found guilty) but I'm not sure how to
> cook dog. At any rate I want one of those large meaty bread not one of
> those Taco Bell dogs We had a nice aquarium of pond fish going too.
> DH wasn't too excited about turning the pool into a trout farm. DH
> actually turned a couple of pond fish into fishicles. I can't believe
> it. I hear all are excellent food iffn'n ya be hungry enough

I'm going to give this one a pass thanks... ;-)
Growing your own fish is one thing, but predator IMHO tastes disgusting.
Plus, I really could not ever bring myself to eat cat or dog.

I just couldn't.

I have ducks, emus and chickens. THOSE I could eat...

All except for Pauli:

http://home.centurytel.net/Katraslink/KathyApollo2.jpg

I also have pigeons which are tasty and I do harvest squabs from time to
time. The nice thing about pigeons is that they free range so are cheap
to feed.

And there are plenty of squirrels and they are delicious.
BB guns are cheap to feed.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article . com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> >
> > I also have a coleman camp stove.
> > I just need to have dad teach me how to use one.
>
> If it's one of Coleman's new propane type it's fine but never use any
> white cas stove indoors.
>

It runs on the little propane tanks.
Thanks for the warning! :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

~patches~ wrote:
> Del Cecchi wrote:
>
snip
>> I wouldn't hesitate to use a coleman stove in the kitchen. Not really
>> any different than burning natural gas or propane. Keep it in a
>> closet or in the basement.
>>
> Our coleman uses white gas (naptha fuel). The flames when first
> starting will easily shoot 5' in the air. There's no way I would
> attempt to use it in the house or under an awning. We don't have a
> basement because of a high water table. Now maybe a new propane coleman
> stove would be different but I still don't think you are supposed to
> use them indoors.

5 feet!!!!!!!!! Holy cow. Mine only goes a few inches when starting,
then after maybe a minute and a little pump it is normal gas flame. I
burn "coleman fuel" which is like white gas or naptha.

I have never seen a coleman stove shoot up that far. Do you still have
eyebrows?

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
snip
> My mom always took her pressure cooker on long camping trips...
>
> In Alaska, she canned longneck clams and wild Salmon using the coleman
> stove at the campground, and in Oregon, wild blackberries. :-)
>
> Jars and stuff could always be found in any of the larger towns where we
> went camping.
>
> Mom was cool.
Wow! I would never have planned that kind of canning on a Coleman/camping
trip. She must have been some sharp cookie.
Janet

"Sheldon" > wrote:

>Sterno is okay for small keep-warm jobs but I'd never attempt to use it
>for cooking indoors. You are far safer with propane, which can safely
>be used indoors... my kitchen stove uses propane. There are portable
>table top propane stoves that operate quite well with a small
>cylinder... far safer than sterno in every respect. A small propane
>cylinder is also much more economical as there is no waste... with
>sterno once the can is opened you have to use it all as there is no way
>to effectively reseal the can and it evaporates rather quickly... in
>fact sterno evaporates from factory sealed cans so check them every six
>months.

I don't know about Sterno, but I agree that using propane indoors is
safe. The only precaution I take when using the propane burner is
that I use a supply line that has a pressure guage in it. Before each
use, I open the tank valve to charge the line, wait a few minutes and
check the pressure. If it has dropped, then there's a leak. That
would be the only problem, having leaking propane falling towards the
floor at the tank and being ignited somehow. The same thing could
happen outdoors, were it not for the fact that it usually gets
dispersed before a disaster happens. Except for the fact that you
have a small tank indoors, I don't see why it would be any more
dangerous than using a regular propane-fueled stove, which could also
leak, BTW, like any gas stove. Now, my backpack camp burner which
uses Coleman style fuel produces huge amounts of CO and could easily
kill you if used indoors.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

~patches~ > wrote:

>How do you store that amount of water?

I don't know if they're still around, but I bought a bunch of 7.5
gallon water containers from www.watertanks.com. I also bought some
used 50 gallon blue plastic drums from someplace. It took me weeks of
cleaning to get the "apple" smell out of them. We also have a few
odds and ends, like some 5 gallon black British Army surplus cans that
we just refill every 2 or 3 weeks, and don't even bother treating.
The stored water was all filtered (Pur, I think) and stored with added
plain Clorox, then all the stacks were stored in a basement covered
with a dark blue tarp to keep light away. I just checked them again a
few weeks ago. Broke one open and tasted it, like an idiot. No mold,
no cloudiness, tastes like fresh water (stored in October 1999). I
know I really should replace all of them but it's a huge task - my
plan right now is to use the recently stored water first, then just
re-treat the other with Clorox. Even when it's strongly smelling of
bleach, you can pour some into a glass pitcher, set it in sunlight for
awhile, and it will be fine. (The containers were also sterilized,
sort of, before filling and sealing).

>We don't have inverters yet. DH was leary of the battery blow-up
>problem and needing an extra battery shed but we have a lot of things
>solar including batter chargers even for AAA, D, and C size. They sit
>in the sunny windows charging up the batteries. For most lighting we use
>the coleman florescent, candles and oil lanterns. I like the lanterns
>myself. We have a solar powered/windup radio so we can get local radio
>stations.

I didn't mean to imply that I have huge inverters to run the house off
of. We have a few small (300 watt "TrippLite" inverters) for small
tasks. My assumption is that, in general, we go with 12 volt power.
We're not going to be looking for luxury, just the basics. When I did
my solar system there was a company called Gascaps.com from which I
bought a bunch of platinum-catalyst battery caps at 5 bucks apiece
(murder!). After a few years they slowly started to fall apart, and I
think the company is gone. I have a very small brushless fan
(12-volt) that blows across the bank of batts all the time to avoid
any pooling of hydrogen, which isn't going to happen anyway with the
charge cycles I'm using. So I don't use the gascaps anymore, just
whatever comes with the batteries. I use marine deep-cycle batts -
they're only rated at 120 amp-hours each but it's so incredibly
expensive to stack the low-voltage solar batts that I didn't even
consider it. I replace them every couple of years as insurance and
they're only about 65 bucks apiece, rather than hundreds. Oh, and
plan your capacity carefully - don't think you can drain these down to
40% more than a few times and have them remain usefull. The most
important thing is to avoid sulphation, while they're sitting around
waiting to be used. Tell him not to worry, just do what I did - I
wouldn't stack them a foot away from a source of spark, though. My
biggest mistake was leaving the system charging all the time. Even
with a Sunsaver controller, some of the batts ended up boiling out.
Now I use a maint charger which as the pulse stuff to avoid sulphation
and only switch the panels to charge every now and then for a
"top-off". If power was gone, I'd have to put them back in full use.
I also bought a small (3550 / 5500 peak) gen set and wired a
multi-circuit transfer switch into the house. I could run the pumps,
switch to the fridge or whatever, but storing gas is not something I
feel good about, so it's designed to be used sparingly and as a last
resort. Storing kerosene, however, is fine and we have tons of it.

I'm proud of you (like you care <G>) for thinking ahead like that. My
closest neighbors are great people, but sort of "head in the clouds,
get the latest gadget, the government will save me" kind of folks with
3 little girls. So, whether it was prudent or not, I have included
that family in all my plans and added stuff I wouldn't otherwise need.
They don't know it, and in fact the dad told me before y2k that he
wasn't even putting away a bottle of water because "he knew he could
come to my house". At first I was ticked, then I saw it as an
opportunity to help out a really great family if it came to that.
Only other thing I can say is PLEASE look into the Krill lightsticks.
If things stretch out very long and all the flashlights are dead,
these suckers will run for months on a small sack of AA batteries.
I've changed a tire by one and you can read a book with it, or light
up a large room enough to get around in. Again, go for the "180
Standard" - best light, longest use for the money.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

Just a quick addition - if you have pets, don't forget them! We have
three dogs - one 85 pounds, one 75 and one 30 pounds. I always try to
keep 2-3 months worth of food for them, and of course there's plenty
of water. It's like your own food storage, just label with dates and
cycle through it. It's dry food only in warm weather and a mixture of
dry/canned in cold weather, because they need the canned for the extra
energy to keep warm and healthy. Also plenty of straw for their
houses.

--
The Doc says my brain waves closely match those of a crazed ferret.
At least now I have an excuse.

I don't know how much pellet one goes through in a season, having never
had a pellet stove, but saw yesterday that pellets were $200 a ton
delivered in these parts.

Jessica

Jessica V. wrote:
> I don't know how much pellet one goes through in a season, having never
> had a pellet stove, but saw yesterday that pellets were $200 a ton
> delivered in these parts.


There's no way to estimate the quantity of any fuel without doing a
survey; particular climate, cubic feet to be heated, insulation values,
myriad data. And then initially the pellets are by far the least
costly part of the equation... there is still the stove, but mostly
there's the cost of a chimney and hearth. And in all but a very few
instances is a decorative fireplace located in a desirable place for
home heating purposes.

Sheldon

~patches~ wrote:
> jmcquown wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>> We live in an area where the power goes out quite often during
>>> storms. Yesterday a storm blew up and I knew it was going to be a
>>> dilly. I
>>> was planning a pot of chili for dinner Before I had a chance to
>>> get the ground beef browning the power was out except I didn't
>>> realize it because I started the ground beef and headed to the
>>> garage
>>> for the campstove. The garage door opener didn't work which was my
>>> first clue and the side door to the garage was blocked preventing
>>> entry.
>>
>>
>> I don't know how big your campstove is, but you couldn't have
>> carried it through the house? Must be a big stove!
>
> The campstove is a coleman 2-burner but you can't use it in the house.
> I couldn't get into the garage as one door was blocked and the door
> that
> lets the car in wouldn't work without power. The garage is not
> attached
> to the house.
>>
My parents have an electric garage but you can still open it manually. How
odd that you have to have electricity to pull the door up.

>> So I fired up the gas grill and browned the gr beef on the
>>
>>> side burner then proceeded to make chili. It was only 3:30 pm so I
>>> assured myself the power would be back on but took the precaution of
>>> covering my yogurt maker with a thick towel. By 6 pm the aroma of
>>> chili filled the air outside and the power was still off. A couple
>>> of neighbours were in a teather because they couldn't cook and had
>>> nothing to eat, something I've never understood. One was quite
>>> funny because his wife is away and she does all the cooking. I
>>> invited him
>>> for dinner but he doesn't like chili.
>>
>>
>> His tough luck, then. He couldn't have been *that* hungry if he
>> turned down a free meal.
>
> Well yes but he's elderly and is used to the old ways of the wife
> doing everything and he is a very good neighbour. I kinda felt sorry
> for him because he really just looked very lost as to how he would
> manage. I
> pity him if she dies before him.
>>
I feel that way about my 81 year old father. He would be lost without my
mother. It's only with his recent health problems he has started actively
acknowledging this. I'm afraid for years he simply took her for granted,
like her being there was just a given.

>> Everyone here knows the power
>>
>>> goes out quite often some refuse to prepare for it. It's similar in
>>> the snowstorms we have - a couple of feet of snow dumped and at
>>> least
>>> one of the neighbours all of a sudden remembers they're out of milk
>>> which ultimately means all the other neighbours has to help get this
>>> one guy's car unstuck. Meanwhile the mom & pop is closed anyway. I
>>> baked biscuits on the grill to go with the chili so we had a nice
>>> meal in the glow of oil lamps and candles. Then we played cribbage
>>> for awhile while listening to a few neighbours loudly complaining
>>> about the power outage. We lent one of them a flashlight because he
>>> couldn't find his. The power finally came on just before 10 pm.
>>>
>>
>> It's odd since you live in an area where there are frequent outages
>> the neighbors should be so outraged by the loss of power. I don't
>> have that problem unless it's a doozy of a storm, but I'm prepared
>> for whatever contingency.
>
> It's the norm here and there's nothing we can do about it. The lines
> are above ground so are less protected than buried lines and despite
> the problems the lines won't be buried anytime soon. We can't get
> cable or
> high speed internet here either. We keep an old fashion rotary dial
> telephone because when the power goes out the cordless phones won't
> work. People here are happy to have location, location, location as
> well a good neighbours yet they will **** and moan each time the power
> goes out. The point is people here know it happens so they should be
> prepared period. I was negligent at not being able to get to the
> campstove but I was still able to cook.
>>
>>
>>> This recent outage had me looking around at all the
>>> gadgets/appliance
>>> I use that run on electricity. I was glad the breadmaker wasn't on
>>> and I hadn't been in the middle of canning something!
>>
>>
>> I'm sure you were! I don't have many electric gadgets, although my
>> stove is electric (that's what came with the apartment). I won't do
>> electric can-openers and stuff like that.
>
> I gave up electric can-openers a long time ago. They are totally
> useless!
>>
>> I am more
>>
>>> determined than ever to convert to a gas range. Cooking outdoors
>>> during a power outage in the winter is the pits!
>>
>>
>> I wish I could have a gas range but the apartment complex isn't set
>> up for it. I keep a load of lump charcoal for my grill. I've
>> turned out some darned good meals on the trusty Weber kettle in
>> times of emergencies. I was without power for a week once and
>> managed to eat well. Having cast iron cookware sure does help. I
>> don't understand people who won't prepare for emergencies,
>> particularly if they know they crop up frequently. We don't get
>> snow down here but sometimes get ice-storms which are much worse.
>> Even then I don't tend to lose power for more than a couple of
>> hours. And I have a fireplace. I can cook in that if I need to.
>
> A week is a long time to go without power but enterprising people do
> it
> all the time. I don't understand if you live in an area that you
> wouldn't be prepared. Heck I could make several meals that didn't
> need cooking and then cook what I needed. I agree with the cast iron
> and I
> like using enamelware on the bbq. You can use the bbq as an oven so
> most things are fair game. Unlike our last house we don't have a
> fireplace or woodstove but that is on our lists of improvements.
> During
> nice weather or even in the cold if the wind isn't whipping around we
> have an outdoor firepit. I have a tripod for cooking stews, soups,
> and
> chili over and a grill for meats and veggies. We have enough wood to
> see us through an emergency and then some so if the gas wasn't
> working I would have resorted to that. During the y2k scare there
> was some
> speculation the gas wouldn't work if the power was out for any length
> of
> time so I'm prepared that way. Most times though a power outage of 1
> or 2 hours or less and you could easily get by without cooking.
>>
>> What's worse, to me, is when it's 90+F degrees and the only method of
>> cooking is outdoors over a hot fire and trying to keep ice in the
>> ice chest and freezer so all the food doesn't thaw out.
>
> Yep! From camping experience that is a pain. If you can find a
> source
> of dry ice that would be easier than reg ice. My concern last night
> really revolved around the freezers. One is in the garage and the
> temps
> were in the low 80's. We have a smaller chest freezer and
> side-by-side
> in the house. The rule of thumb is not to open unless absolutely
> necessary. The last major power outage was almost 48 hrs. We topped
> the chest freezers with heavy blankets and they were fine but I really
> worried about the one in the garage. IMO the side-by-side is useless
> and wastes energy even though it looks good. It's on my hit list of
> appliances to replace.
>>
>> Jill

Jessica V. wrote:
> I don't know how much pellet one goes through in a season, having never
> had a pellet stove, but saw yesterday that pellets were $200 a ton
> delivered in these parts.
>
> Jessica
>


How does that compare to the cost of corn?

-Bob