I read the SAME thing on their website. I think their statement about
"no reports cases in 40 years" as a defense is classic legal jargon.
Why? Let me explain to you.

1) Has anyone actully TRIED to report a case? I have notified DuPont
about this last night via email. So that should be 1 case at the
minimum. However, will you hear any press release in the future to
include "very rare reports found?" No. I would have to get a lawyer,
and it's not worth it. Just stop and meditate over that profound
thought. I am waiting still for a response from Dupont.

2)There were fewer legal options in years past, especially for the
average Joe. Look at hard how it was to fight the cigarette companies.
Today attorneys are ubiquitous and the precedents are there,
particularly class-action lawsuits.

3)Finally, I'm not sure what the statistics are for Teflon, but I do
know that Aluminum pots and pans, cast-iron, etc have been used for
decades(!)

Conclusion: I don't think it's a conspiracy over Teflon. I think many
of these people have families and children. However, I do think they
produced a product detrimental to our health that now cannot be undone
because of gigantic financial interests. The only reason that the
"flu-like" symptoms are temporary is because our body is resilient. But
how long will be pollute our bodies more and more? Each generation adds
a chemical here and a little there. Now, you're considered a "nut",
"twit", "fanatic" if you attempt to avoid chemicals that are not part
of your body(!) I'm not saying that the government should ban Teflon
because I believe in free choice. But I believe that the masses are
uneducated about its potential dangers. It's too bad we don't promote a
culture of good health. I can't save the world and don't plan too. But
I play my part to educate a person or friend who wants to save himself.

Thank you for your time. Grant

Champion against Teflon wrote:
:: Hi,
::

Snipped a bunch of stuff that leads me to believe that you need the
information in this website:
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

BOB

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi Michel,
>
> I am the sort of person that believes in being balanced in diets. I'm
> not a vegetarian and love good steak. I eat fish, carbs, protein, etc.
> However, I do watch my health against things that are harmful. Cast
> iron? I don't use it, so I don't know much about it. I don't believe
> Teflon is lethal. However, I do believe that it poses a real threat to
> the quality of people's health. Isn't it somewhat, just a little,
> alarming that if burning the pot accidentally can make a human this
> violently ill how bad it must be for regular health???

Isn't it alarming how heating water to 212 degrees F can make steam that can
burn you. Just think how bad water is for regular health.


Isn't that
> common sense? I've burned food before and never had that happen to me
> with stainless steel.
>
> No, i'm not a mindless twit posting about lethal teflon. I'm a twit
> posting about a teflon that simply makes you sick. I never said much
> about whether it will kill you over time. I'm also partly addressing
> the comments to the genius whose remarks you included. Great day. Grant
>

BOB wrote:
> Champion against Teflon wrote:
> :: Hi,
> ::
> leads me to believe that you need the
> information in this website:
> http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
>
> BOB
>
> --
>


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAA!!!!! Gosh, this might protect him from
"Teflon flu," too! Ya' think??

I think that 'brick' he was talking about went upside his head and
knocked him cuckoo.

"Nancy Young" > wrote in
:

>> You should never overheat food as a way to cook it anyway. It's
>> pretty frikking fundamental.
>
> Who said I cooked it, Michael,

Who's Michael and if you're talking to me, are you doing this on
purpose? I ask because it's bloody annoying...

> and it was someone trying to make
> bananas foster or something, I was not there to say, you might
> want to use the stainless pan.

I meant "you" in the obscure colloquial English usage where it in
fact does not mean the person one is speaking to but to the general
public at large (go figure). In order to bypass ambiguities that may
arise from the lack of appropriate context, how should I render that
in future? As "One should never..."? or "People should never.."? or
"USAians should never..."? (should it apply to residents of one of
our largest trading partners immediately to the south of us) You
see, the lack of specificity was the problem...

You (meaning Nancy...see I can spell your name right and not make any
mistakes) tell me :-)

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

salgud wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>>Seamus wrote:
>>
>>
>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Seamus wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>Champion against Teflon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I want as many people as possible to know that
>>>>>>>I was poisoned by Teflon. I've never trusted it, and when it poisons
>>>>>>>you, you want to tell everyone how dangerous it is. I've used surgical
>>>>>>>stainless steel for over 2 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There's no such stainless steel classification as "surgical".
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Yes there is, but it's mere marketing. It simply means the highest
>>>>>quality stainless.
>>>>>see
>>>>>http://www.bdmarketing.com/cookware_2.htm
>>>>>http://www.diamondcraft.com/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nice! I like the diamond craft pots & pans. Do you know what the
>>>>grading on ss means. I see numbers like 18/8 but am not sure what they
>>>>mean.
>>>
>>>IIRC, 18/8 means 18 ppm Chromium and 8 ppm Nickel in alloyed in the
>>>steel. ( I could have the Cr/Ni backwards).
>>>
>>
>>Thanks Seamus. You have the Cr/Ni correct. I found the information and
>>posted the link for others interested.
>
>
> Sorry, but I was a Metallurgical Engineer in a previous life. It's 18%
> Chrome, 8% Nickel (the remaining 74% being iron, of course).
>
Right you are and my mistake for not noticing the ppm. That makes a big
difference. I know per cents are pph just not reading close enough.
That will teach me to sit playing on the computer when I could be cooking

Janet Bostwick wrote:

> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
egroups.com...
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I am new to this group. I want as many people as possible to know that
>>>>I was poisoned by Teflon. snip
>>>
>>>I recently moved in with some friends
>>>
>>>>after Hurricane Katrina.
>>>
>>>snip
>>>
>>>Grant Polet
>>>
>>>You don't think that anything associated with being a Katrina evacuee had
>>>anything to do with your illness?
>>>
>>
>>You stop being logical right this minute, madam. Are you suggesting that a
>>few drops of filthy, tainted water splashed on one's lips, then ingested,
>>might cause illness? Everybody knows bacteria are at least the size of a
>>kidney bean.
>
> Sorry. It was just a thought. . .
>
>
IMO either could be the cause for his illness. Without an accurate
medical diagnosis neither he or us will ever know for sure. My bet is
on bacterial side effects from Katrina however that does not negate the
fact there are know side effects to teflon. We are at least getting a
good discussion out of it and I hope the OP is feeling better whatever
the cause.

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in
ups.com:

> Hi Michel,

I see YOU can spell my name correctly...:-)

> I am the sort of person that believes in being balanced in diets.
> I'm not a vegetarian and love good steak. I eat fish, carbs,
> protein, etc.

Ah...well, there you have it. But, pray tell what has being a
vegetarian got to do with this? Are you suggesting that vegetarians
are prone to complaining about teflon?

> However, I do watch my health against things that
> are harmful. Cast iron? I don't use it, so I don't know much about
> it. I don't believe Teflon is lethal. However, I do believe that
> it poses a real threat to the quality of people's health.

Well, that's as may be, but you should be aware that this is one of
many "letters of public interest" (for want of a better term) that
get posted here irregularly. Now that I think of it, it must a year
or more since someone posted the Nieman-Marcus cookie recipe.

> Isn't it
> somewhat, just a little, alarming that if burning the pot
> accidentally can make a human this violently ill how bad it must
> be for regular health???

Well, then what you're complaining about it the quality of food that
has been overexposed to heat...

> Isn't that common sense? I've burned food
> before and never had that happen to me with stainless steel.

I don't use stainless steel. I don't use cast iron either. I cook
with teflon (eggs, sauces) and never have any problem.

Ghaaaaa...urgh....ftang ftang ptooie.... <--- representing an obvious
nervous disorder one
might attribute to
Teflon, were one
inclined to do so

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

Damsel wrote:
> Champion against Teflon wrote:
> >
> > I developed severe back pains and in my joints. (I'm only 23
> > years old by the way and very athletic) My back has never hurted
> > before. Heck, I don't even lift heavy objects!
> >
> > Then the cold sweats came on only to be followed by "weird chills" that
> > made me shake. The people I was staying with didn't know what to make
> > of it. I also had piercing stomach pains and diarrhea. Oh yes, the
> > headaches were excruciating. It felt like a brick was constantly being
> > pressed against my head.
>
> Whoa! I had those very symptoms a few days ago!
>
> Wait. I don't own any Teflon.

What about your Teflon nipple rings?

Sheldon

"Michel Boucher" > wrote

> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> Who said I cooked it, Michael,
>
> Who's Michael and if you're talking to me, are you doing this on
> purpose? I ask because it's bloody annoying...

Just a childish attempt to annoy you. I know you've never done
that to me.

>> and it was someone trying to make
>> bananas foster or something, I was not there to say, you might
>> want to use the stainless pan.
>
> I meant "you" in the obscure colloquial English usage where it in
> fact does not mean the person one is speaking to but to the general
> public at large (go figure). In order to bypass ambiguities that may
> arise from the lack of appropriate context, how should I render that
> in future? As "One should never..."? or "People should never.."? or
> "USAians should never..."? (should it apply to residents of one of
> our largest trading partners immediately to the south of us) You
> see, the lack of specificity was the problem...
>
> You (meaning Nancy...see I can spell your name right and not make any
> mistakes) tell me :-)

It's frikkin fundamental, sometimes you have to get a pan really hot
and I don't worry about that with stainless steel or cast iron. Teflon,
I guess I always intuited that you didn't want to do that. Of course,
that's been made very clear to me, it was horrible. Just one more
reason I like to stay with stainless for the most part.

Anyway, sorry Michel, and someday I'd like to know why that extra
a drives you up the wall.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:

> Anyway, sorry Michel, and someday I'd like to know why that extra
> a drives you up the wall.


Because that "a" turns his name into the Anglo - Saxon spelling, and he has
an absolute abhorrence of anything Anglo - Saxon :-)

--
Best
Greg

"Gregory Morrow"
<gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>> Anyway, sorry Michel, and someday I'd like to know why that extra
>> a drives you up the wall.

> Because that "a" turns his name into the Anglo - Saxon spelling, and he
> has
> an absolute abhorrence of anything Anglo - Saxon :-)

Yeah, I knew that, I was just hoping it was something better.

nancy

Seamus wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
> > Champion against Teflon wrote:
> > >
> > > I want as many people as possible to know that
> > > I was poisoned by Teflon. I've never trusted it, and when it poisons
> > > you, you want to tell everyone how dangerous it is. I've used surgical
> > > stainless steel for over 2 years.
> >
> > There's no such stainless steel classification as "surgical".
> >
> > Sheldon
> Yes there is, but it's mere marketing. It simply means the highest
> quality stainless.
> see
> http://www.bdmarketing.com/cookware_2.htm
> http://www.diamondcraft.com/

Usage is not a grade. The stainless used for cookware is at the lowest
end of the spectrum, the very lowest end.

Sheldon

Sheldon wrote:
> Damsel wrote:
>
> > Wait. I don't own any Teflon.
>
> What about your Teflon nipple rings?

Ya got me there, kiddo. I'm always setting off airport alarms with
those damned things. They're a curse. They really are.

Carol

Champion against Teflon wrote:
>
> I am the sort of person that believes in being balanced in diets. I'm
> not a vegetarian and love good steak. I eat fish, carbs, protein, etc.
> However, I do watch my health against things that are harmful. Cast
> iron? I don't use it, so I don't know much about it.

Stay away from cast iron. You can get an iron overdose. Be afraid.
Be very afraid.

Carol, just trying to help

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Michel Boucher" > wrote
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> Who said I cooked it, Michael,
>>
>> Who's Michael and if you're talking to me, are you doing this on
>> purpose? I ask because it's bloody annoying...
>
> Just a childish attempt to annoy you. I know you've never done
> that to me.
>
>>> and it was someone trying to make
>>> bananas foster or something, I was not there to say, you might
>>> want to use the stainless pan.
>>
>> I meant "you" in the obscure colloquial English usage where it in
>> fact does not mean the person one is speaking to but to the general
>> public at large (go figure). In order to bypass ambiguities that may
>> arise from the lack of appropriate context, how should I render that
>> in future? As "One should never..."? or "People should never.."? or
>> "USAians should never..."? (should it apply to residents of one of
>> our largest trading partners immediately to the south of us) You
>> see, the lack of specificity was the problem...
>>
>> You (meaning Nancy...see I can spell your name right and not make any
>> mistakes) tell me :-)
>
> It's frikkin fundamental, sometimes you have to get a pan really hot
> and I don't worry about that with stainless steel or cast iron. Teflon,
> I guess I always intuited that you didn't want to do that. Of course,
> that's been made very clear to me, it was horrible. Just one more
> reason I like to stay with stainless for the most part.
>
> Anyway, sorry Michel, and someday I'd like to know why that extra
> a drives you up the wall.
>
> nancy
>
>
>

I really want to meet you. You have intuition, a lost frikkin art, Ms.
Young. That's really HOTTT. :-)

"Doug Kanter" > wrote
>
> "Nancy Young" > wrote

>> Anyway, sorry Michel

> I really want to meet you. You have intuition, a lost frikkin art, Ms.
> Young. That's really HOTTT. :-)

(laugh) Cut it out! Wiseguy.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote
>>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote
>
>>> Anyway, sorry Michel
>
>> I really want to meet you. You have intuition, a lost frikkin art, Ms.
>> Young. That's really HOTTT. :-)
>
> (laugh) Cut it out! Wiseguy.
>
> nancy
>

You're da bomb! You can leave your hat on, though. <singing> YOU CAN LEAVE
YOUR HAT ON.....

Allan Matthews wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2005 07:05:20 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Champion against Teflon wrote:
> >>
> >> I want as many people as possible to know that
> >> I was poisoned by Teflon. I've never trusted it, and when it poisons
> >> you, you want to tell everyone how dangerous it is. I've used surgical
> >> stainless steel for over 2 years.
> >
> >There's no such stainless steel classification as "surgical".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel
>
>
> These people must be wrong, Sheldon.

You can't read. That's an application, not a metallurgical grade...
*all* grades of stainless steel can be used for surgical applications
and are, the particular application is what dictates which grades to
consider, and there are many surgical applications... often tensile
strength is more important than corrosiveness... by your own rationale
there is no surgical stainless grade because ALL stainless is surgical
grade. The term 'surgical stainless steel' is 100% hype... these days
particularly popular with the body piercing crowd. Btw, typical
surgical usage dictates grades at the *lowest* end of the spectrum, as
is cookware grades... the food industry does not require the most
corrosive resistant stainless steels, nor does the human body, in fact
in most cases the least resistant are very satisfactory. The more
corrosive resistant grades are progressively more difficult to
form/machine... if used for cookware folks would not be able to afford
stainless steel in their kitchens. The stainless used for appliances
is the very lowest grade stainless, right down there with el cheapo
kitchen sinks... can be made shiny but is not very corrosion resistant,
nor very strong.

The higher grades of stainless steel are reserved for industrial
applications, and especially marine applications... the highest grades
for super heated steam tubing, pumps, and turbines in conjunction with
nuclear reactors.

Anyone thinks the stainless used for kitchenware is anything special
hasn't a clue... in the scheme of things it's essentially crap... won't
even hold up well to typical home kitchen pickling... shouldn't be
using your expensive designer pots for boiling salted pasta water
either, won't be long before it's pitted.

Guess what, the grade of stainless used for urinals is a higher grade
than any cookware... so don't **** in your All-CRAP.

Sheldon

Michel,

Let me ask you a question. You seem to be a very intelligent person
with good sense of reasoning. So I'd like to bring this to a civil
discussion.

What piece of evidence do you believe makes "Teflon" safe? Here is why
I'm asking. I'm not claiming Teflon is lethal. I'm also not saying we
should live in a bubble. But I truly felt like I had been poisoned a
few days ago. So let's use deductive reasoning. Here were my symptoms:
fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach pains, chills, severe headache,
mental fogginess. Are these the symptoms of regular flu?

Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for Teflon remnants in
food?

Here is an experiment everyone can do:
Obtain an aluminum pan, cast iron, teflon, and stainless steel pan.
Pour water in each with a little baking soda. Boil each for 2 minutes
and then pour into a glass. Here will be your results: Your aluminum
pan will take like drinking metal. Your cast iron will be nasty, your
teflon will taste similar to oil and you may vomit, and your stainless
steel water will taste like salty water. Try the experiment.

My final question: typically if something bad happens to someone, it's
not human nature to "reattack" the person. So my question: why does it
bring out such ugly qualities in people when I try to share my story?
Isn't the 'best experiment' the actual use by humans? i think the ONLY
reason most people don't think teflon can make them sick is because
they are so used to getting the flu or cold each season. Thing is, I've
not contracted the flu or cold for about 2 years. I've even been in
contact with someone with the flu a few months back and shook his hand
as a "test". My immune system is very strong. That's why I can
legitimately have a bit more confidence. Thank you Michel for your
time. Grant

Patches,

Thanks for your input! Please listen carefully....I lived 30 to 40
miles WEST of New Orleans. Our town was high and dry from hurricane
Katrina. In fact, it didn't even rain there(!) So, there's no earthly
possibility of a bacterial side effect. I know you don't know me, so
that's why I'm honestly trying to clarify that for you.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for actually hoping I feel better. I'm amazed how
quick people attack you when you challenge something dear to
them--their pots.

Now, do you think a medical diagnosis would be of any help? Maybe it
would, but I don't visit doctors. I believe they mean well, but they
are very limited in treatment. I seem to break all the rules and I'm
extremely healthy. I don't take the God-send fluoride toothpaste and
the fluoride treatments and yet I have never had a cavity. (I don't
east sweets!) I never take antibiotics or flu shots and stay well for
years at a time. I'll go 2 or 3 winters without the flu or common cold.
When I don't feel well, I treat myself and usually get better in a few
days. I also have very very clear thinking and can concentrate for
hours on end. my point? Well, what I felt over the past few days is
completely unlike anything I've ever felt. I'll TRY to describe it for
you. It felt like something was tied to my head and each time I would
move my head, I would "feel" sharp shooting pains. My neck and my back
were sore as if I had been kicked in the back. It was very painful.
Then we were playing scrabble and I suddenly started shaking all over
my body. My stomach pains were incredible. Then, I told my friends that
something is wrong because I felt so disoriented. I was getting really
aggravated, which is not my personality. So, anyway, if you experience
this, just please consider the POSSIBILITY that it COULD be the teflon.
If more people are made aware of it, then it may be watched out for.

Look, if you cook in teflon and never get sick, I'm very happy for you.
I really don't want you to go through what I went through. I truly
don't. But I'm telling YOU, whoever wants to play stupid, that this is
a very serious condition and if it happens to your child, you are NOT
going to be laughing.

Thank you for listening. Grant

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Hi,
> I was poisoned by Teflon. !
>
> Then the cold sweats came on only to be followed by "weird chills" that
> made me shake. The people I was staying with didn't know what to make
> of it. I also had piercing stomach pains and diarrhea. Oh yes, the
> headaches were excruciating. It felt like a brick was constantly being
> pressed against my head.


People can develop sensitivities or allergies to almost anything, this could
be the case with you. You may be allergic to teflon. Or the fact that you
usually don't use it could mean that your body just wasn't used to it. Just
a thought!

Also another possibility is that because you're usually so healthy and
rarely get sick, you don't know the wide range of illnesses the body can get
from viruses. The symptoms you describe, sound like viruses to me, maybe
even a couple different ones at once. Because you're not used to being
sick, being ill might also have felt *really* bad to you compared to normal.

I'm not denying it may well have been the teflon that caused your illness,
and I think most people would assume it, being in your shoes. But there's
some some food for thought. I'm glad your well now, but it is irresponsible
not to see a doctor, you just never know when things can be really serious.

--
Jen

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...

> Given that there are some known health risks it
> might be prudent to limit the use of teflon coated
> pots & pans as well as avoid abnomally high cooking
> temps.

Not "abnormally" high, actually. At normal cooking temperatures, teflon
starts to off-gas. I only use teflon/non-stick for eggs, which I don't cook
at a very high temperature.

> Many of us avoid using aluminum pots & pans because
> of the potential of aluminum leaching into food and the
> associated health risks.

This has been thoroughly debunked, although you might want to avoid cooking
particularly acidic foods in aluminum because of discoloration and potential
metallic taste issues.

> Many of us avoid cooking acidic foods in cast iron pans
> because of leaching.

Leeching from cast iron pans isn't dangerous unless you already have
abnormally high iron in your blood (a very rare condition indeed). In fact,
cooking with cast iron is a *good* way to get iron in your diet and is
recommended for those who tend to anemia. The reason you want to avoid long
cooking of acidic foods -- like tomato sauce -- in your cast iron is because
it will remove the seasoning. That said, I make quick tomato sauces
(starting with bacon) for pasta all the time in a cast iron skillet and I
haven't had any problems with the seasoning -- I will note that the sauce
isn't in contact with the pan for more than 20 minutes or so.

> I see the warning of teflon coating to be a similar
> concern. If someone has had a negative experience
> with a product it is nice that they share without being
> an alarmist.

Absolutely. Knowledge is power.
-j

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> But I truly felt like I had been poisoned a few days
> ago. So let's use deductive reasoning. Here were
> my symptoms: fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach
> pains, chills, severe headache, mental fogginess.
> Are these the symptoms of regular flu?

Yes, or food poisoning, or a whole host of other things which may or may not
have had to do with your Teflon.

> Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for
> Teflon remnants in food?
>
> Here is an experiment everyone can do:
> Obtain an aluminum pan, cast iron, teflon, and stainless
> steel pan. Pour water in each with a little baking soda.
> Boil each for 2 minutes and then pour into a glass. Here
> will be your results: Your aluminum pan will take like
> drinking metal. Your cast iron will be nasty, your
> teflon will taste similar to oil and you may vomit, and
> your stainless steel water will taste like salty water. Try
> the experiment.

Syrup of Ipecac, excessive alcohol intake, motion sickness, stomach flu ...
these things, too, can make you vomit. Your "experiment" is not scientific.
If you're that concerned, take your pans to an independent lab and have them
tested.

> My final question: typically if something bad happens
> to someone, it's not human nature to "reattack" the
> person. So my question: why does it bring out such
> ugly qualities in people when I try to share my story?

People here have heard this claim in one form or another many, many times.
Styling yourself the "Champion against Teflon" does nothing for your
credibility; it frankly makes you look like a just another nutjob who lacks
critical thinking skills.

> Isn't the 'best experiment' the actual use by humans?

No, the best experiments in this situation are conducted under strict
laboratory conditions and produce reliably replicatable results. As many
tests of Teflon have been. You're not the first person to claim illness
from using Teflon -- but then there's no one so zealous as a new convert.

> My immune system is very strong. That's why
> I can legitimately have a bit more confidence.

That's a quite foolish assumption, actually.
-j

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...

> > Sorry, but it's 18% Chrome, 8% nickel, not ppm.
> > If it were ppm, what would the other 999,976
> > ppm be?

> Mercury amalgam. :-)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

On 11 Oct 2005 19:43:09 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:

>
>Allan Matthews wrote:
>> On 11 Oct 2005 07:05:20 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Champion against Teflon wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I want as many people as possible to know that
>> >> I was poisoned by Teflon. I've never trusted it, and when it poisons
>> >> you, you want to tell everyone how dangerous it is. I've used surgical
>> >> stainless steel for over 2 years.
>> >
>> >There's no such stainless steel classification as "surgical".
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel
>>
>>
>> These people must be wrong, Sheldon.
>
>You can't read. That's an application, not a metallurgical grade...
>*all* grades of stainless steel can be used for surgical applications
>

Go back and try to read it..not an application..a formula for a
product called "surgical stainless steel"...or don't bother.

You make fun... I happen to know for a fact that a teflon frying pan is
extremely lethal.. Just try this. Hold the pan in your right hand and swing
it as hard as you can against someones skull.. He or she will be dead. See..
lethal!

--

itsjoannotjoann wrote:
> Champion against Teflon wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I am new to this group. I want as many people as possible to know
>> that I was poisoned by Teflon.
>
>
>
> Oh hell, not another one of these mindless twits posting about lethal
> Teflon. <groan>

In article >, Allan Matthews > wrote:
>On 11 Oct 2005 19:43:09 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:
>
>>Allan Matthews wrote:
>>> On 11 Oct 2005 07:05:20 -0700, "Sheldon" > wrote:
>>> >Champion against Teflon wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I want as many people as possible to know that
>>> >> I was poisoned by Teflon. I've never trusted it, and when it poisons
>>> >> you, you want to tell everyone how dangerous it is. I've used surgical
>>> >> stainless steel for over 2 years.
>>> >
>>> >There's no such stainless steel classification as "surgical".
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_stainless_steel
>>>
>>> These people must be wrong, Sheldon.
>>
>>You can't read. That's an application, not a metallurgical grade...
>>*all* grades of stainless steel can be used for surgical applications
>
>Go back and try to read it..not an application..a formula for a
>product called "surgical stainless steel"...or don't bother.

Allan, if you read the article carefully, and look at the figures
quoted, it seems very likely that "formula" is a *range* covering a
large variety of stainless steels. In fact, if you take their
invitation to look up "stainless steel" you'll see a long list of
types. The one most relevant here appears to be this one:
<quoting>
Type 316--for food and surgical stainless steel uses; Alloy addition
of molybdenum to prevent specific forms of corrosion; equivalent to
ISO A4.
</quoting.

Note the reference to "food and surgical ... uses".


Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
>
> What piece of evidence do you believe makes "Teflon" safe? Here is why
> I'm asking. I'm not claiming Teflon is lethal. I'm also not saying we
> should live in a bubble. But I truly felt like I had been poisoned a
> few days ago. So let's use deductive reasoning. Here were my symptoms:
> fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach pains, chills, severe headache,
> mental fogginess. Are these the symptoms of regular flu?

Could be food poisoning too. Perhaps you ate or dranks something tainted at
the same time, give or take a few hours?


>
> Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for Teflon remnants in
> food?

No, nor do i plan too, but others with proper equipment have and no bad
results.

>
> Here is an experiment everyone can do:
> Obtain an aluminum pan, cast iron, teflon, and stainless steel pan.
> Pour water in each with a little baking soda. Boil each for 2 minutes
> and then pour into a glass. Here will be your results: Your aluminum
> pan will take like drinking metal. Your cast iron will be nasty, your
> teflon will taste similar to oil and you may vomit, and your stainless
> steel water will taste like salty water. Try the experiment.

Makes you want to stop eating cooked foods.

>
> My final question: typically if something bad happens to someone, it's
> not human nature to "reattack" the person. So my question: why does it
> bring out such ugly qualities in people when I try to share my story?

Because we are not 100% sure that it s related. Have you repeated the
experiment to be sure? You may be correct, but without scientific methods
of testing, it is considered anecdotal evidence.



> Isn't the 'best experiment' the actual use by humans? i think the ONLY
> reason most people don't think teflon can make them sick is because
> they are so used to getting the flu or cold each season. Thing is, I've
> not contracted the flu or cold for about 2 years.

I've not contracted it in over 10 years. Maybe Teflon cooking is making me
imune to the flu? I eat an egg at least 5 days a week cooked in a Teflon
coated pan and it is helping me stay healthy. Without Teflon, who know what
ills may come my way. Great protection, the virusses just don't stick.

You may well have had an adverse affect from the Teflon. People have
adverse reactions to some of the most seemingly benign foods, skin contacts,
etc. that I don't discount anything. But that does not mean it is harmful
to millions or billions of others. Just because you had a problem, it does
not mean it should be banned from use. Will Teflon become the next peanut?

Champion against Teflon wrote:

> Patches,
>
> Thanks for your input! Please listen carefully....I lived 30 to 40
> miles WEST of New Orleans. Our town was high and dry from hurricane
> Katrina. In fact, it didn't even rain there(!) So, there's no earthly
> possibility of a bacterial side effect. I know you don't know me, so
> that's why I'm honestly trying to clarify that for you.

No problem and thanks for clarifying. You mentioned Katrina and with
all the water problems down there, bacterial or viral contamination
could have been a cause of your flu had you been exposed. Since you
weren't exposed to Katrina's aftermath then you can rule out that.

>
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH for actually hoping I feel better. I'm amazed how
> quick people attack you when you challenge something dear to
> them--their pots.

You're welcome I was surprised too at some of the responses
especially when a warning comes directly from the makers of teflon.
>
> Now, do you think a medical diagnosis would be of any help? Maybe it

IMO it would have given you a definite diagnosis and since you don't
visit doctors a natralpathic practioner could have diagnosed you. That
way you would know for sure.
> would, but I don't visit doctors. I believe they mean well, but they
> are very limited in treatment. I seem to break all the rules and I'm
> extremely healthy. I don't take the God-send fluoride toothpaste and
> the fluoride treatments and yet I have never had a cavity. (I don't
> east sweets!) I never take antibiotics or flu shots and stay well for
> years at a time. I'll go 2 or 3 winters without the flu or common cold.
> When I don't feel well, I treat myself and usually get better in a few
> days. I also have very very clear thinking and can concentrate for
> hours on end. my point? Well, what I felt over the past few days is
> completely unlike anything I've ever felt. I'll TRY to describe it for
> you. It felt like something was tied to my head and each time I would
> move my head, I would "feel" sharp shooting pains. My neck and my back
> were sore as if I had been kicked in the back. It was very painful.
> Then we were playing scrabble and I suddenly started shaking all over
> my body. My stomach pains were incredible. Then, I told my friends that
> something is wrong because I felt so disoriented. I was getting really
> aggravated, which is not my personality. So, anyway, if you experience
> this, just please consider the POSSIBILITY that it COULD be the teflon.
> If more people are made aware of it, then it may be watched out for.

I think I will pass on experiencing the fluelike illness. It doesn't
sound like a very pleasant experience.
>
> Look, if you cook in teflon and never get sick, I'm very happy for you.
> I really don't want you to go through what I went through. I truly
> don't. But I'm telling YOU, whoever wants to play stupid, that this is
> a very serious condition and if it happens to your child, you are NOT
> going to be laughing.

As I mentioned I used non-stick for a number of years but switched to
stainless steel. I had more of a problem with the flaking of the
non-stick coating rather than fumes but I'm pretty sure ingesting the
flakes is not good for you either. Maybe the lack of problem with fumes
is because I don't do a lot of cooking at high temps. I use a well
seasoned cast iron pan for high temp cooking like searing.

The point that most seem to have missed in this discussion is that there
are *known* health risks with the teflon coating.
>
> Thank you for listening. Grant
>

jacqui{JB} wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>Given that there are some known health risks it
>>might be prudent to limit the use of teflon coated
>>pots & pans as well as avoid abnomally high cooking
>>temps.
>
>
> Not "abnormally" high, actually. At normal cooking temperatures, teflon
> starts to off-gas. I only use teflon/non-stick for eggs, which I don't cook
> at a very high temperature.

DuPont claims it happens at abnormally high temps not just normal temps.
It's a little scary if the off-gassing occurs at normal cooking temps
as well. I only have the two non-stick fry pans and like you they are
used for eggs.

Champion against Teflon wrote:
<snip>
> Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for Teflon remnants in
> food?
>
> Here is an experiment everyone can do:
> Obtain an aluminum pan, cast iron, teflon, and stainless steel pan.
> Pour water in each with a little baking soda. Boil each for 2 minutes
> and then pour into a glass. Here will be your results: Your aluminum
> pan will take like drinking metal. Your cast iron will be nasty, your
> teflon will taste similar to oil and you may vomit, and your stainless
> steel water will taste like salty water. Try the experiment.

I have a stainless steel tea kettle. Water boiled in it certainly does
not taste salty.

wrote:

> You make fun... I happen to know for a fact that a teflon frying pan is
> extremely lethal.. Just try this. Hold the pan in your right hand and swing
> it as hard as you can against someones skull.. He or she will be dead. See..
> lethal!
>
Nope! A teflon fry pan will just dent the skull in a little and likely
get dented in the process. For lethality using fry pans one must stick
to the tried and true - cast iron fry pan

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Champion against Teflon wrote:
> <snip>
>> Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for Teflon remnants in
>> food?
>>
>> Here is an experiment everyone can do:
>> Obtain an aluminum pan, cast iron, teflon, and stainless steel pan.
>> Pour water in each with a little baking soda. Boil each for 2 minutes
>> and then pour into a glass. Here will be your results: Your aluminum
>> pan will take like drinking metal. Your cast iron will be nasty, your
>> teflon will taste similar to oil and you may vomit, and your stainless
>> steel water will taste like salty water. Try the experiment.
>
> I have a stainless steel tea kettle. Water boiled in it certainly does
> not taste salty.

Agreed. I've been using SS cookware and kettle for years. No salty tastes.

Champion against Teflon wrote:

> Here were my symptoms:
> fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach pains, chills, severe headache,
> mental fogginess. Are these the symptoms of regular flu?

You didn't get diagnosed by a real doctor and you claim it HAS to be
teflon (thanks to your mommy). You're barking up the wrong tree!

Most of us have been eating off teflon cookware for decades and teflon
has never caused me your range of symptoms after any meal in all that
time.

I'm only convinced that you're a megalomaniacal idiot with a stick up
your ass. Hey, that's probably what's causing it!

--
Andy
http://tinyurl.com/dzl7h

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...

> > Not "abnormally" high, actually. At normal cooking
> temperatures, teflon starts to off-gas. I only use teflon/
> non-stick for eggs, which I don't cook at a very high
> temperature.

> DuPont claims it happens at abnormally high temps not
> just normal temps. It's a little scary if the off-gassing occurs
> at normal cooking temps as well. I only have the two non-
> stick fry pans and like you they are used for eggs.

I expressed myself poorly. To clarify, what DuPont terms "abnormally high"
temperatures, I consider to be within the realm of normal, household cooking
temperatures.
-j

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...

> > You make fun... I happen to know for a fact that
> > a teflon frying pan is extremely lethal.. Just try this.
> > Hold the pan in your right hand and swing it as hard
> > as you can against someones skull.. He or she will
> > be dead. See.. lethal!

> Nope! A teflon fry pan will just dent the skull in a little
> and likely get dented in the process. For lethality using
> fry pans one must stick to the tried and true - cast iron
> fry pan

There's always the classic frozen leg of lamb.

-j
(All Hail, Roald Dahl!).

"Nancy Young" > wrote in
:

> Anyway, sorry Michel, and someday I'd like to know why that extra
> a drives you up the wall.

Simple, really. Because it's not my name, neither is Mikhail nor
Michele or Misha-el. And because it's generally used (around where I
live) by (English-speaking) people who are careless. I am
predisposed to being irritated about this by my immediate
environment.

I was dealing with a collection agency for a while and the agents
would call and invariably would ask for "Mike" and when I told them
there was no such person by that name but that my name was Michel,
they would get irate.

Generally, it's a basic politeness to call someone by their proper
name. After all, I'm not asking you to pronounce it properly (I
realize that would be asking you to do the impossible), just to write
it correctly.

Today for lunch, cold sliced pork roast and plain black rice, the
perfect combination.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> "Champion against Teflon" > wrote in message
>
>>What piece of evidence do you believe makes "Teflon" safe? Here is why
>>I'm asking. I'm not claiming Teflon is lethal. I'm also not saying we
>>should live in a bubble. But I truly felt like I had been poisoned a
>>few days ago. So let's use deductive reasoning. Here were my symptoms:
>>fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach pains, chills, severe headache,
>>mental fogginess. Are these the symptoms of regular flu?
>
>
> Could be food poisoning too. Perhaps you ate or dranks something tainted at
> the same time, give or take a few hours?

I had a case of food poisoning last spring - diagnosed by a doctor - and
had all of those symptoms as well as even my hair hurting and a painful
tingly sensation on my skin. It was not fun at all. As far as the
question posed regarding the symptoms, I would say yes they are symptoms
of regular flu but also symptoms of other disorders as well. It depends
on how it affects your body. Regular flu will knock you out for several
days and it will take weeks to fully recover. Flu can be fatal which is
why those at risk should get a flu shot each year. What most refer to a
flu - 24 hr flu - really is mild food poisoning or other type of viral
infection.

"Champion against Teflon" > wrote in
ups.com:

> Michel,

Hmmmm...there's that correct spelling again! :-)

> Let me ask you a question. You seem to be a very intelligent
> person with good sense of reasoning. So I'd like to bring this to
> a civil discussion.

Ok, so let's do that.

> What piece of evidence do you believe makes "Teflon" safe?

I have no "piece of evidence" to that effect. Satisfied? :-)

> Here is
> why I'm asking. I'm not claiming Teflon is lethal. I'm also not
> saying we should live in a bubble. But I truly felt like I had
> been poisoned a few days ago.

I thought I had the flu a few days ago...turned out to be exhaustion.

> So let's use deductive reasoning.
> Here were my symptoms: fever, backache, diarrhea, stomach pains,
> chills, severe headache, mental fogginess. Are these the symptoms
> of regular flu?

Actually, yes. I had those very same symptoms, except for the severe
headache. I never get severe headaches.

> Also, have you ever tested any of your cookware for Teflon
> remnants in food?

No. And I don't think it's worth my time to do that. And you
haven't had any tested by an independent laboratory either. So,
let's not go there.

> My final question: typically if something bad happens to someone,
> it's not human nature to "reattack" the person.

Ah? Really? You're not a habitué of this newsgroup then, are you?
If you were, you wouldn't ask that.

As it stands, I did not attack you but merely pointed out that your
letter of interest (for want of a better term) is simply one among
many. Within a short space of time, another may be posted with no
reference to you to say that stainless steel is deleterious to the
public's health and that people should use teflon coated cooking
ware. None of the arguments brought forth during these many debates
we have had over the years are based on unbiased scientific
observation. In fact, most are easily refutable to all here except
to the person who brings the matter forth. So. There you have it.

> So my question:
> why does it bring out such ugly qualities in people when I try to
> share my story? Isn't the 'best experiment' the actual use by
> humans? i think the ONLY reason most people don't think teflon can
> make them sick is because they are so used to getting the flu or
> cold each season. Thing is, I've not contracted the flu or cold
> for about 2 years. I've even been in contact with someone with the
> flu a few months back and shook his hand as a "test". My immune
> system is very strong. That's why I can legitimately have a bit
> more confidence.

Your method is, as was pointed out elsewhere, anecdotal. The flu is
most contagious before the declaration of symptoms. Once the
symptoms are visible (i.e. you know this person has the flu) the
communicability is seriously reduced. Q.E.D.

So, should you ever be able to point to solid scientific data, please
return and I will take a serious look at it.

In the meantime, may I suggest that you refrain from overheating
teflon pots and pans.

--

"Compassion is the chief law of human existence."

Dostoevski, The Idiot