In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Granted, I've never owned a Toyota and I've heard nothing but good
> >> > about
> >> > them, I'm just not going to knock a Chevy since I've had such a great
> >> > experience with it. :-)
> >>
> >> ....knock on wood...
> >>
> >> Just wait....I hope you have better luck than some.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > The S-10 just passed 100,000 miles with only 2 trips to the shop. :-)
> > And $250.00 for a catalytic converter replacement IMHO is not bad...
> >
> > I run synthetic oil and really am good about maintenance schedules.
> > Upkeep cost has been less than $400.00 per year not counting the 2
> > repairs.
> >
> > So far.
>
> Get all over the transmission maintenance, especially if it's an automatic.
> Change fluid & filter a little more often than recommended.
>
>

It's a 5 speed. Stick.

That's one of the advantages too to not doing oil changes myself.
The place I take it to checks all fluids and makes recommendations based
on manufacturures (sp?) recommendations, and keeps track of what has
been done in the computer.

I've found it's FAR cheaper to follow maintenance plans than to wait for
a breakdown! :-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote

> It's a 5 speed. Stick.
>
> That's one of the advantages too to not doing oil changes myself.
> The place I take it to checks all fluids and makes recommendations based
> on manufacturures (sp?) recommendations, and keeps track of what has
> been done in the computer.

Aren't they great? This place I go to, it's not a chain, they do all that,
check the tires, whatnot, and don't try to sell me a new air filter every
time I go. And they throw in a nice carwash, inside included. I drive
away feeling like my car is new again. Of course, it isn't, it's 14.

> I've found it's FAR cheaper to follow maintenance plans than to wait for
> a breakdown! :-)

Yeah, people will argue, you're wasting your money, don't get the oil
changed so often blah blah blah ... thanks for the advice, but for $25,
I think it's worth it every 3,000 miles or so.

nancy

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "Doug Kanter" > wrote
>
> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote
>
> >> But, that has been fixed!
> >
> > Who told you that?
>
> Just take a look at the Consumer Reports and who ranks
> at the top of reliability studies and who ranks at the bottom.
>
> >> I got seriously burned on repair costs to foreign cars.
> >> It costs about 1/2 price to repair american cars!
>
> That hasn't been my experience.
>
> > Compared to WHICH foreign cars? The "fact" you're stating is not backed up
> > by my experience with 3 Toyotas vs 2 American company cars, a Chevy and a
> > Ford.
>
> >> After getting seriously screwed on repair costs to a german car,
> >
> > Per my (independent) mechanic, people who buy German cars should be
> > prepared to support a "culture of endless repairs", as he puts it. He
> > prefers Toyotas, because people tend to get mad at whatever mechanic
> > they're standing in front of when there are major problems, and Toyotas
> > don't put him in that position often.
> >
> >> I will ONLY buy American from now on! :-)
> >> Foreign car dealers gouge for repair costs to their cars. I just can't
> >> deal with that any more.
> >
> > Which foreign car dealers? Which brands?
>
> Maybe I've been lucky, I've gotten terrific service from dealers.
> Foreign dealers.
>
> nancy
>
>

Owning the VW ruined me for european cars, permanently. ;-)
That frickin' Passat ate me alive at close to 2 grand per year ON TOP of
the car payments. And it was even still under warantee.

Yah right.

Never again.......

I got nearly equally screwed on repair costs (and frequency) for Nissans.
The Chevy has been a breath of fresh air.

At least for me.

YMMV.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Nancy Young" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote
>
> > It's a 5 speed. Stick.
> >
> > That's one of the advantages too to not doing oil changes myself.
> > The place I take it to checks all fluids and makes recommendations based
> > on manufacturures (sp?) recommendations, and keeps track of what has
> > been done in the computer.
>
> Aren't they great? This place I go to, it's not a chain, they do all that,
> check the tires, whatnot, and don't try to sell me a new air filter every
> time I go. And they throw in a nice carwash, inside included. I drive
> away feeling like my car is new again. Of course, it isn't, it's 14.

I know what you mean. :-)
I just pick all the stuff up off the floor before going there.

>
> > I've found it's FAR cheaper to follow maintenance plans than to wait for
> > a breakdown! :-)
>
> Yeah, people will argue, you're wasting your money, don't get the oil
> changed so often blah blah blah ... thanks for the advice, but for $25,
> I think it's worth it every 3,000 miles or so.
>
> nancy

Agreed!
But since I use synthetic oil, it's every 5,000 miles.

Cheers!

>
>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:32:47 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

>In article >,
> Pan Ohco > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:42:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Police officers get bitten more than you might think too.
>> >HIV is tested for when that happens.
>>
>> While I was working I was bitten by 1 dog and 7 people, at different
>> time of course.
>> And the dog let go right away, the people did not.
>>
>>
>> Pan Ohco
>>
>
>Ouch. :-(
>
>Got scars?

More then I wish to count, but most don't show when I'm dressed.
And they are fading.

Pan Ohco

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:41:28 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>Owning the VW ruined me for european cars, permanently. ;-)
>That frickin' Passat ate me alive at close to 2 grand per year ON TOP of
>the car payments. And it was even still under warantee.
>
>Yah right.
>
>Never again.......

Gosh, really? We have a two year old Jetta that we absolutely love.
It's been no trouble at all other than routine oil changes and the
like, unless you count the windshield replacement when a truck threw a
rock at us. =( That we did have to pay out of pocket to the tune of
$400 bucks, but I can't blame it on VW. I'd buy another one with no
qualms whatsoever.

Regards
Tracy R.

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
>>
> You may be better than most. I've asked dog units here to NOT let their dogs
> stop on my property. Some point to their little coprophilia bag and say "But
> I'm gonna clean it up". I politely say "That's fine, but even so, please do
> it elsewhere". Some of them argue, or sneak back at night and discover, to
> their surprise, that some people sit outside at night and watch the stars.
> That's when the trouble begins. Fun for me, not for them.

OmMani is the norm for dog owners I know. We don't allow our dogs to
roam, we clean up after them when we need to have them off our property
(on a leash of course), we socialize them properly, and we obedience
train them. 90% of idiots with dogs in America are clueless as to
responsibilites and common decency when it comes to owning a dog. They
fail to socialize the animal properly, fail to train the dog, fail to
assume responsibility for THEIR actions in allowing their pets to roam
and destroy the property of others (icluding defecating on the property
of others).

My dogs never leave my property except to go to the vet (in the car and
on a leash frm vehicle to office). When I did live in an area where I
had to walk them (or when I was into the AKC dog show scene), poop bags
were always carried to clean up after the animal and the animal was
NEVER allowed to roam off leash and destroy the property of others.

As far as greeting people coming in my house: my dogs stand patiently
by while I open the door. They do not jump or slobber the visitor. If
asked to do so, they will "kennel up" in their crates if the visitor is
afraid of dogs. All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.

SD

>> >>
>> >> but, but, but dogs lick their bits and the bits of any other dog they
>> >> come across......


I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to scratch their
bums.

--
Jen

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > And even most "american" cars or parts are now made in Japan and China.
> > > Reality is difficult to escape from...
> >
> > China-blech. But Japan? If Japanese parts found their way into American
> > cars, it would be a vast improvement.
> >
> >
>
> Depends on the car.
> I might be wrong, but I understand that a lot of Chevy parts are made in
> Japan by Isuzu?

The truck parts are Isuzu on the commercial vehicles. We have an Isuzu
NPR. GMC has a comparable model, which is actually an NPR with the
Isuzu logos removed and the GMC logos put on in their place.

SD

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be dogs
> >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
> >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
> >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
> > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> > Goomba
>
> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a $600
> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning experience
> for the lady. Expensive, too.

It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
failings of it's owner.

SD

Doug Kanter wrote:


>
> Do you walk them off your property?

I don't let my dogs off my property at all. The only exception is going
to the veterinarian. On vet days, I walk them the block an a half over
to his office and poop scoop after them. They are perfectly well
socialized and well mannered and will go to their crates if necessary
because of people who are afraid of dogs are in the house. Some of my
tutoring students, who are terrified of dogs, have learned to accept
the dogs and even play with them now.

SD

jmcquown wrote:

>
> Why is it car dealers always want to sell me an automatic? I state
> specifically I want a standard transmission and they are all agape and
> agog - are you sure?! They still try to show me automatics. No, I don't
> want one. Yes, I'm sure. Why does that surprise them so much?

They usually have to special order manual transmissions. They aren't
that popular with many people so they don't sell real well.

SD

"SD" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>
> All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.

I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
it's not safe to use this "cookie" he

http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml

"SD" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Doug Kanter wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be
>> >> dogs
>> >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
>> >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
>> >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
>> > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
>> > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
>> > Goomba
>>
>> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
>> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a
>> $600
>> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
>> experience
>> for the lady. Expensive, too.
>
> It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> failings of it's owner.
>
> SD
>

You're right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone's conditioned by the living
things they interact with, whether they be people, animals or plants with
thorns. Dogs train their owners, who cut them way too much slack to do
stupid things.

And by the way, border collies have no use as pets in a typical
neighborhood. Selective breeding has created dogs which, if they were
people, would have flunked all their courses in high school and been in
juvenile detention centers by age 18.

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "SD" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >>>
> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>
> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
>
> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml

You live in a neighborhood full of clueless morons.

SD

In article >,
Pan Ohco > wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 14:32:47 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Pan Ohco > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:42:19 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >Police officers get bitten more than you might think too.
> >> >HIV is tested for when that happens.
> >>
> >> While I was working I was bitten by 1 dog and 7 people, at different
> >> time of course.
> >> And the dog let go right away, the people did not.
> >>
> >>
> >> Pan Ohco
> >>
> >
> >Ouch. :-(
> >
> >Got scars?
>
> More then I wish to count, but most don't show when I'm dressed.
> And they are fading.
>
> Pan Ohco
>

How long were you a cop?
I take my hat off to ya! :-)

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
ravinwulf > wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:41:28 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > wrote:
>
> >Owning the VW ruined me for european cars, permanently. ;-)
> >That frickin' Passat ate me alive at close to 2 grand per year ON TOP of
> >the car payments. And it was even still under warantee.
> >
> >Yah right.
> >
> >Never again.......
>
> Gosh, really?

Yes.
But there are lemons in every bunch I imagine.
This was a VW Passat station wagon.
I'd not recommend one on a bet!

> We have a two year old Jetta that we absolutely love.
> It's been no trouble at all other than routine oil changes and the
> like, unless you count the windshield replacement when a truck threw a
> rock at us. =( That we did have to pay out of pocket to the tune of
> $400 bucks, but I can't blame it on VW. I'd buy another one with no
> qualms whatsoever.

I'm glad you've had a good experience.
See, I've had the same good experience with my Chevy S-10. :-)

>
> Regards
> Tracy R.

Cheers!

>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article .com>,
"SD" > wrote:

> Doug Kanter wrote:
> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> > >
> > >> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >>
> >>
> > You may be better than most. I've asked dog units here to NOT let their dogs
> > stop on my property. Some point to their little coprophilia bag and say "But
> > I'm gonna clean it up". I politely say "That's fine, but even so, please do
> > it elsewhere". Some of them argue, or sneak back at night and discover, to
> > their surprise, that some people sit outside at night and watch the stars.
> > That's when the trouble begins. Fun for me, not for them.
>
> OmMani is the norm for dog owners I know. We don't allow our dogs to
> roam, we clean up after them when we need to have them off our property
> (on a leash of course), we socialize them properly, and we obedience
> train them. 90% of idiots with dogs in America are clueless as to
> responsibilites and common decency when it comes to owning a dog. They
> fail to socialize the animal properly, fail to train the dog, fail to
> assume responsibility for THEIR actions in allowing their pets to roam
> and destroy the property of others (icluding defecating on the property
> of others).

Yep.
And those are the dogs that also get hit by cars as they ignore their
ignorant owners! IMHO there are no bad dogs, just bad dog owners.
A well trained dog is a real joy!
An untrained one is a PITA and it's not the dogs fault. :-(

>
> My dogs never leave my property except to go to the vet (in the car and
> on a leash frm vehicle to office). When I did live in an area where I
> had to walk them (or when I was into the AKC dog show scene), poop bags
> were always carried to clean up after the animal and the animal was
> NEVER allowed to roam off leash and destroy the property of others.

My dogs won't even leave the yard if the gate is left open. :-)
It's NOT that hard to train them! Really! Peanut butter and cheese bits
are your friend for initial training, then lots of love and praises
during and after that.

>
> As far as greeting people coming in my house: my dogs stand patiently
> by while I open the door. They do not jump or slobber the visitor. If
> asked to do so, they will "kennel up" in their crates if the visitor is
> afraid of dogs. All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>
> SD

<smiles> Good puppy! :-)

Cheers!

>
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article . com>,
"SD" > wrote:

> Doug Kanter wrote:
> > "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Doug Kanter wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be dogs
> > >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
> > >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
> > >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
> > > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> > > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> > > Goomba
> >
> > Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> > collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a $600
> > suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning experience
> > for the lady. Expensive, too.
>
> It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> failings of it's owner.
>
> SD
>

Yes... and no.

I have a Border collie and it's taken me two years of patient and
vigilant training to teach her NOT to jump up! <sigh> There is just
something about that breed of dog that makes that specific act difficult
to train out! They DO so love to do that! And to "mouth" the hand.

What finally worked for Jewely was to "allow" her to jump up on me with
a SPECIFIC command/permission to do so.

Once I started doing that, making her "sit" when she wanted so badly to
jump up on me, then commanding her to jump up on me now and then, the
problem went away. My housekeeper and her kids are my test subjects for
this as her kids (4 and 6 years of age) just adore Jewels and help me
"work" with her for stranger behavior. It's been a tough thing.

Jewely is a dog pound adoptee at about 9 months of age, and I've had her
for a little over 2 years now. I'm new to BC's and this has been a real
training challenge. ;-) I'm used to Shelties and Australian shepard type
dogs that are not quite so hyperactive.

I've spoken with other BC owners on dog lists and this is a very common
and difficult problem with this breed.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "SD" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >>>
> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>
> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
>
> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
>
>

You could try training the dogs yourself.......

Hotwires work wonders and are almost invisible.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "SD" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be
> >> >> dogs
> >> >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
> >> >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
> >> >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
> >> > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> >> > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> >> > Goomba
> >>
> >> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> >> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a
> >> $600
> >> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
> >> experience
> >> for the lady. Expensive, too.
> >
> > It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> > training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> > inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> > failings of it's owner.
> >
> > SD
> >
>
> You're right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone's conditioned by the living
> things they interact with, whether they be people, animals or plants with
> thorns. Dogs train their owners, who cut them way too much slack to do
> stupid things.
>
> And by the way, border collies have no use as pets in a typical
> neighborhood. Selective breeding has created dogs which, if they were
> people, would have flunked all their courses in high school and been in
> juvenile detention centers by age 18.
>
>

<snicker>
Border collies are a real training challenge but are smarter than you
think they are. ;-) I've had to learn dog training all over again with
jewely. I've never had a BC before.

Their main problem is that they are TOO smart!

And hyperactive as hell.

But I love her to pieces and would not give her up for any reason.
She is pure love and devotion.

but she could use some Ritalin. <lol>

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

>
> But, I do take good care of it and follow the maintenance
> recommendations. I've had it for 6 years now and it's only been in the
> shop twice, and has cost me less than $1,000 to keep going.
>
> I never had a Nissan that performed anywhere near as well.
>
> Granted, I've never owned a Toyota and I've heard nothing but good about
> them, I'm just not going to knock a Chevy since I've had such a great
> experience with it. :-)
>

I grew up in Motown. Dad worked for GM, Mom for Ford and FIL for
Chrysler. I can get family discounts and am considering a PT Cruiser.

First car was a used Toyota Corona. Served well for a year. Next car
was a brand new Civic hatchback. Served well until it was stolen.
Another car was an Olds Cutlass given to us and it served us well.
Next was a brand new Nissan Sentra, the basics, no radio or anything.
'86. Sold it to the woman next door and it's still running well. Car
now is a Subaru wagon, '92. It has rattles and such but still works.

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>>> >>
>>> >> but, but, but dogs lick their bits and the bits of any other dog they
>>> >> come across......
>
>
> I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to scratch their
> bums.
>
> --
> Jen ---------------

I read a quote a couple of months ago (but forgot the lady's name...I have
it typewritten at work though!), "There are no bad dogs as there are no bad
men; it's all in their training."

<shrug> It just seemed appropriate!

--
Syssi

On Wed 26 Oct 2005 08:25:21p, Syssi wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
>
> "Jen" > wrote in message
> ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> but, but, but dogs lick their bits and the bits of any other dog
>>>> >> they come across......
>>
>>
>> I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to scratch
>> their bums.
>>
>> --
>> Jen ---------------
>
> I read a quote a couple of months ago (but forgot the lady's name...I
> have it typewritten at work though!), "There are no bad dogs as there
> are no bad men; it's all in their training."
>
> <shrug> It just seemed appropriate!
>

You are both wicked and evil she-devils and deserve to have neither dogs
nor men! :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
_____________________________

http://tinypic.com/eikz78.jpg

Meet Mr. Bailey

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 03:25:21 GMT, "Syssi" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> but, but, but dogs lick their bits and the bits of any other
dog they
>>>> >> come across......
>>
>>
>> I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to
scratch their
>> bums.
>>
>> --
>> Jen ---------------
>
>I read a quote a couple of months ago (but forgot the lady's name...I
have
>it typewritten at work though!), "There are no bad dogs as there are
no bad
>men; it's all in their training."
>
><shrug> It just seemed appropriate!

Barabara Woodehouse. walkies? Her book was something along the lines
"No Bad Dogs."

aloha

Thunder dog
smithfarms.com
Farmers of 100% Kona Coffee
& other Great Stuff

In article >,
says...
>
> Barabara Woodehouse. walkies? Her book was something along the lines
> "No Bad Dogs."
>

Yeah, right. What's _bad_? I've had 'too smart for their own good dogs',
'stupid dogs', 'extremely stupid dogs', 'wired back to front dogs' and
'bloody hysterical dogs' as well as 'f8ck you boss, I can make up my own
mind dogs'. None of them were bad as in nasty or dangerous, but very bad
for training as skilled working dogs. At the moment I've an 18month
border collie who's stupid and pigheaded, the only thing he gets
enthusiastic about is the sound of the atv, and racing it; he still
hasn't learned where the end of his chain is - we're trying to find a
job for him as pet, because he'll never cut the mustard on the farm.
His full sister is absolutely fabulous. Keen, intelligent, listens and
learning to work (and loving it).

A seeing eye dog that chases trucks is BAD in my book ...

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
> Jewely is a dog pound adoptee at about 9 months of age, and I've had her
> for a little over 2 years now.

Speaking as someone who spent almost 3 years training and fostering
difficult shelter dogs, this is probably a bigger issue than the
breed. Dogs can learn a lot of bad habits in 9 months...

> I'm new to BC's and this has been a real
> training challenge. ;-) I'm used to Shelties and Australian shepard type
> dogs that are not quite so hyperactive.

Depends on the dog, my Australian Shepherd is more hyperactive than
most Border Collies, and since he was over 2 when I got him he's very
difficult to train, but luckily the original owners had done pretty
well with him. Still, most people (and shelters) would've considered
him unadoptable (as well as cat-incompatible, and he's fine with our
cat now), which is why I have him.

Smart dogs can often be the most challenging; you wouldn't believe
some of the trouble I've seen smart, bored dogs get into.

--
Richard W Kaszeta

http://www.kaszeta.org/rich

"SD" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "SD" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >>>
>> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
>> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>>
>> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
>> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
>> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
>> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
>>
>> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
>
> You live in a neighborhood full of clueless morons.

The extent of it is beyond imagination sometimes. For instance, when I've
asked 2 people to not stop their dogs here, they've both said that the first
8 feet belongs to the town, and is for public use. Wrong. The town and
utilities have a permanent easement, for construction and maintenance. But,
it's still private property.

20 years ago, a neighbor, whose garden was being trashed by a stray dog, got
no results from the animal control knuckleheads. So, she videotaped the
stray dog entering the owner's front door. She called the cops and animal
control, who went to the owner's house with her. The owner denied that the
dog was his! The friggin' tape showed the house address numbers and
everything!

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
>> "SD" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >>>
>> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
>> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>>
>> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
>> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
>> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
>> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
>>
>> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
>>
>>
>
> You could try training the dogs yourself.......
>
> Hotwires work wonders and are almost invisible.

What are Hotwires?

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> ravinwulf > wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 15:41:28 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Owning the VW ruined me for european cars, permanently. ;-)
>> >That frickin' Passat ate me alive at close to 2 grand per year ON TOP of
>> >the car payments. And it was even still under warantee.
>> >
>> >Yah right.
>> >
>> >Never again.......
>>
>> Gosh, really?
>
> Yes.
> But there are lemons in every bunch I imagine.
> This was a VW Passat station wagon.
> I'd not recommend one on a bet!

My mechanic says VWs are infamous for electrical nonsense. 20 years back, I
used to install high-end car stereos, and noticed that the wiring harness
connectors in VWs (as well as Audis & Porsches) were the LEAST secure &
protected, in terms of vibration & moisture. No idea how they are now, but
the reputation lingers, even with a mechanic who sees cars all day long.

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
>> "SD" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > Doug Kanter wrote:
>> >> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > Doug Kanter wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be
>> >> >> dogs
>> >> >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently
>> >> >> (or
>> >> >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people
>> >> >> like
>> >> >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be
>> >> >> slobbered?
>> >> > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
>> >> > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
>> >> > Goomba
>> >>
>> >> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
>> >> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of
>> >> a
>> >> $600
>> >> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
>> >> experience
>> >> for the lady. Expensive, too.
>> >
>> > It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
>> > training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
>> > inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
>> > failings of it's owner.
>> >
>> > SD
>> >
>>
>> You're right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone's conditioned by the living
>> things they interact with, whether they be people, animals or plants with
>> thorns. Dogs train their owners, who cut them way too much slack to do
>> stupid things.
>>
>> And by the way, border collies have no use as pets in a typical
>> neighborhood. Selective breeding has created dogs which, if they were
>> people, would have flunked all their courses in high school and been in
>> juvenile detention centers by age 18.
>>
>>
>
> <snicker>
> Border collies are a real training challenge but are smarter than you
> think they are. ;-) I've had to learn dog training all over again with
> jewely. I've never had a BC before.
>
> Their main problem is that they are TOO smart!
>
> And hyperactive as hell.

Oh, I know they're smart. There's a sheep herding show somewhere outside the
city each year, and it's amazing what those dogs can do. There's also a guy
here who provides a service to certain communities. You know how some really
lame townhouse developments have big ponds, sometimes with fountains? Well
apparently, architecture schools don't mention geese. So, this local guy
gets paid to spend a week or two at each place, and has trained his dog to
annoy the geese. They actually leave, sometimes for months at a time, after
having their legs gently nipped by the dog.

Not sure what it's like to clean goose crap off the dog's feet, though.
That's the main reason they hire the guy in the first place - it becomes
impossible to walk in these developments.

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> jmcquown wrote:
>>> Andy wrote:
>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 100,000 mile/10 year warranty including powertrain and 24/7 free
>>>>> roadside assistance. That plus an excellent little car, can't
>>>>> beat it with a stick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you mean can't beat a manual transmission or the old saying?
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>
>>> Both. I always drive manual transmissions
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> Why is it car dealers always want to sell me an automatic? I state
>> specifically I want a standard transmission and they are all agape
>> and agog - are you sure?! They still try to show me automatics.
>> No, I don't want one. Yes, I'm sure. Why does that surprise them
>> so much?
>
> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
> another dealer.

Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no, this was
more like "but you're a WOMAN..."

Jill

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
...
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 100,000 mile/10 year warranty including powertrain and 24/7 free
>>>>>> roadside assistance. That plus an excellent little car, can't
>>>>>> beat it with a stick
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean can't beat a manual transmission or the old saying?
>>>>>
>>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>> Both. I always drive manual transmissions
>>>>
>>>> Jill
>>>
>>> Why is it car dealers always want to sell me an automatic? I state
>>> specifically I want a standard transmission and they are all agape
>>> and agog - are you sure?! They still try to show me automatics.
>>> No, I don't want one. Yes, I'm sure. Why does that surprise them
>>> so much?
>>
>> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
>> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
>> another dealer.
>
> Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no, this was
> more like "but you're a WOMAN..."
>
> Jill

What putzes, those salesmen. I bought my Toyota pickup from a woman at the
dealership. The showroom floor was spotless, so I slid under the truck to
look at attachment points for a towing hitch. She came over, asked what I
was looking at, slid under there with me, and gave me a guided tour of all
sorts of design features. Amazing product knowledge. AND....she was a real
dish! Too bad she had a ring on. I could've spent a lot more time under
there with her. :-(

"jmcquown" > wrote

> Doug Kanter wrote:

>> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
>> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
>> another dealer.
>
> Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no, this was
> more like "but you're a WOMAN..."

It's the truth. While I admit that I haven't been on a car lot in
quite some time, there were plenty of sticks on the cars I was
checking out, but the salesman would steer me away from them.
Well, try to.

Funny, I just remembered, this was when 5 speeds were relatively
new on the scene, the guy thought I didn't understand and then,
disapprovingly!, said You'll never use 5th gear on the island.
That was good for a laugh that I think I hid.

If I ever do have to buy a car on my own, I think I'll just call my
ex, he's a genius at that, & spare me having to glare at a salesman
who says, how much do you want to spend a month. Grrrrrr.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jmcquown" > wrote
>
>> Doug Kanter wrote:
>
>>> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
>>> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
>>> another dealer.
>>
>> Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no, this
>> was
>> more like "but you're a WOMAN..."
>
> It's the truth. While I admit that I haven't been on a car lot in
> quite some time, there were plenty of sticks on the cars I was
> checking out, but the salesman would steer me away from them.
> Well, try to.
>
> Funny, I just remembered, this was when 5 speeds were relatively
> new on the scene, the guy thought I didn't understand and then,
> disapprovingly!, said You'll never use 5th gear on the island.
> That was good for a laugh that I think I hid.
>
> If I ever do have to buy a car on my own, I think I'll just call my
> ex, he's a genius at that, & spare me having to glare at a salesman
> who says, how much do you want to spend a month. Grrrrrr.

No need for the ex. Here's the trick: No matter what the weather, make sure
you bring some sort of jacket or sweater you can remove. And, have the name
of a competitor in your head. Arrive, remove jacket. If you get any
nonsense, put on the jacket and say "I'm headed over to <competitor>. Here's
my cell phone number. Call me when you're trained and ready to sell a car."
Believe me - the salesman will shape up, and fast.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:12:59 +1300, Peter Huebner
> wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>>
>> Barabara Woodehouse. walkies? Her book was something along the
lines
>> "No Bad Dogs."
>>
>
>Yeah, right. What's _bad_? I've had 'too smart for their own good
dogs',
>'stupid dogs', 'extremely stupid dogs', 'wired back to front dogs'
and
>'bloody hysterical dogs' as well as 'f8ck you boss, I can make up my
own
>mind dogs'. None of them were bad as in nasty or dangerous, but very
bad
>for training as skilled working dogs. At the moment I've an 18month
>border collie who's stupid and pigheaded, the only thing he gets
>enthusiastic about is the sound of the atv, and racing it; he still
>hasn't learned where the end of his chain is - we're trying to find a
>job for him as pet, because he'll never cut the mustard on the farm.
>His full sister is absolutely fabulous. Keen, intelligent, listens
and
>learning to work (and loving it).
>
>A seeing eye dog that chases trucks is BAD in my book ...
>
>-P.

Oh dear. I agree we've had similar dogs. Our BC gets excited over
the neighbor's atv too. But we have wild chickens for her to work and
last night our 9 month old BC caught, proudly carried around for an
hour and then she ate a whole wild hen. Right now I can hear her
trying to get some dog cookies off the counter. She quietly leaps up
to the counter and tries to get her own snacks. Our first BC.

aloha, Thunder
smithfarms.com
Farmers of 100% Kona Coffee
& other Great Stuff

In article >,
Richard Kaszeta > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
> > Jewely is a dog pound adoptee at about 9 months of age, and I've had her
> > for a little over 2 years now.
>
> Speaking as someone who spent almost 3 years training and fostering
> difficult shelter dogs, this is probably a bigger issue than the
> breed. Dogs can learn a lot of bad habits in 9 months...
>
> > I'm new to BC's and this has been a real
> > training challenge. ;-) I'm used to Shelties and Australian shepard type
> > dogs that are not quite so hyperactive.
>
> Depends on the dog, my Australian Shepherd is more hyperactive than
> most Border Collies, and since he was over 2 when I got him he's very
> difficult to train, but luckily the original owners had done pretty
> well with him. Still, most people (and shelters) would've considered
> him unadoptable (as well as cat-incompatible, and he's fine with our
> cat now), which is why I have him.
>
> Smart dogs can often be the most challenging; you wouldn't believe
> some of the trouble I've seen smart, bored dogs get into.

Oh I would believe it. ;-)

I only adopt adult dogs now.
Even with their "bad habits", I've found them easier
to deal with than puppies. I don't usually have to
deal with the housebreaking issue, and dealt with the
destructive chewing issue using stuffed "Kongs".

It's kind of you to do foster training! Wish I had the time.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "SD" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >>>
> >> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> >> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
> >>
> >> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to the
> >> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
> >> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted owners,
> >> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
> >>
> >> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
> >>
> >>
> >
> > You could try training the dogs yourself.......
> >
> > Hotwires work wonders and are almost invisible.
>
> What are Hotwires?
>
>

Electric wires.

Nearly invisible, inexpensive and instantly effective.
My BC tends to fence chase and she leaps so high, I was afraid she was
going to accidently go over the fence. She never really tried to, but it
was a risk we chose not to take.

I strung a double hot wire along the fence line.

Problem solved. ;-)

Some people think they are creul but I don't agree. A dog will hit a
wire once, _maybe_ twice then will never go near it again.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "SD" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> >> "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be
> >> >> >> dogs
> >> >> >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently
> >> >> >> (or
> >> >> >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people
> >> >> >> like
> >> >> >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be
> >> >> >> slobbered?
> >> >> > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> >> >> > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> >> >> > Goomba
> >> >>
> >> >> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> >> >> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of
> >> >> a
> >> >> $600
> >> >> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
> >> >> experience
> >> >> for the lady. Expensive, too.
> >> >
> >> > It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> >> > training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> >> > inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> >> > failings of it's owner.
> >> >
> >> > SD
> >> >
> >>
> >> You're right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone's conditioned by the living
> >> things they interact with, whether they be people, animals or plants with
> >> thorns. Dogs train their owners, who cut them way too much slack to do
> >> stupid things.
> >>
> >> And by the way, border collies have no use as pets in a typical
> >> neighborhood. Selective breeding has created dogs which, if they were
> >> people, would have flunked all their courses in high school and been in
> >> juvenile detention centers by age 18.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > <snicker>
> > Border collies are a real training challenge but are smarter than you
> > think they are. ;-) I've had to learn dog training all over again with
> > jewely. I've never had a BC before.
> >
> > Their main problem is that they are TOO smart!
> >
> > And hyperactive as hell.
>
> Oh, I know they're smart. There's a sheep herding show somewhere outside the
> city each year, and it's amazing what those dogs can do. There's also a guy
> here who provides a service to certain communities. You know how some really
> lame townhouse developments have big ponds, sometimes with fountains? Well
> apparently, architecture schools don't mention geese. So, this local guy
> gets paid to spend a week or two at each place, and has trained his dog to
> annoy the geese. They actually leave, sometimes for months at a time, after
> having their legs gently nipped by the dog.
>
> Not sure what it's like to clean goose crap off the dog's feet, though.
> That's the main reason they hire the guy in the first place - it becomes
> impossible to walk in these developments.
>
>

An elegant solution..... :-)

I've used her to help me catch my poultry sometimes. She will get a
little over-excited sometimes and pounce, but she will instantly drop a
bird and recall on command.

She is so terribly eager to please! She wants to be good, the trick is
just getting her to understand what it is you want her to do.

Amazing dog.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
>> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "SD" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> >>>
>> >> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
>> >> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
>> >>
>> >> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to
>> >> the
>> >> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
>> >> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted
>> >> owners,
>> >> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
>> >>
>> >> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > You could try training the dogs yourself.......
>> >
>> > Hotwires work wonders and are almost invisible.
>>
>> What are Hotwires?
>>
>>
>
> Electric wires.
>
> Nearly invisible, inexpensive and instantly effective.
> My BC tends to fence chase and she leaps so high, I was afraid she was
> going to accidently go over the fence. She never really tried to, but it
> was a risk we chose not to take.
>
> I strung a double hot wire along the fence line.
>
> Problem solved. ;-)
>
> Some people think they are creul but I don't agree. A dog will hit a
> wire once, _maybe_ twice then will never go near it again.

I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that would
have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.