OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
> I only adopt adult dogs now.
> Even with their "bad habits", I've found them easier
> to deal with than puppies. I don't usually have to
> deal with the housebreaking issue, and dealt with the
> destructive chewing issue using stuffed "Kongs".

My aussie can shred a Kong in 5 minutes... Glad he doesn't chew random
items anymore...

> It's kind of you to do foster training! Wish I had the time.

Sometimes it is fun, sometimes it is hard, and once or twice it has
been heartbreaking. But mostly the former, since there are a lot of
dogs and cats that are fun to have for a while, and you can make a
real difference in their outcome, but that many animals would burn me
out long-term (for instance, having a cat and five kittens in the
house while weaning was fun, but after that it was good to see them go
to long-term homes). For that matter, my Aussie is my former foster
dog that we liked so much he couldn't go back to the shelter.

--
Richard W Kaszeta

http://www.kaszeta.org/rich

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 100,000 mile/10 year warranty including powertrain and 24/7 free
>>>>>>> roadside assistance. That plus an excellent little car, can't
>>>>>>> beat it with a stick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you mean can't beat a manual transmission or the old saying?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>
>>>>> Both. I always drive manual transmissions
>>>>>
>>>>> Jill
>>>>
>>>> Why is it car dealers always want to sell me an automatic? I state
>>>> specifically I want a standard transmission and they are all agape
>>>> and agog - are you sure?! They still try to show me automatics.
>>>> No, I don't want one. Yes, I'm sure. Why does that surprise them
>>>> so much?
>>>
>>> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
>>> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
>>> another dealer.
>>
>> Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no,
>> this was more like "but you're a WOMAN..."
>>
>> Jill
>
> What putzes, those salesmen. I bought my Toyota pickup from a woman
> at the dealership. The showroom floor was spotless, so I slid under
> the truck to look at attachment points for a towing hitch. She came
> over, asked what I was looking at, slid under there with me, and gave
> me a guided tour of all sorts of design features. Amazing product
> knowledge. AND....she was a real dish! Too bad she had a ring on. I
> could've spent a lot more time under there with her. :-(

LOL Perhaps she'd encountered you in the produce aisle, hence the ring

Back in the early '80's I went car shopping with my mom. She knew what she
wanted. She (and Dad) had done their Consumer Reports research, etc. We
looked around the lot, she found the model and features she wanted. The
salesman took us to his office. The first thing he did was say something
stupid like, "If you have to call your husband for permission we'll wait
until he comes in." HUH?! We were outraged; I really couldn't believe he'd
just said that. Mom replied, "Excuse me, I don't have to ask for
'permission' to buy anything. I was fully prepared to talk to you and if we
came to an agreement, to write you a check IN FULL. Guess what, we're
leaving."

When we got home she told my dad and he called the manager of the
dealership. Not only can his wife buy whatever she wants without his
'permission', they certainly would never buy anything from the dealership
and indeed would tell *everyone* they knew not to buy anything from them,
either.

Wonder how long that crass salesman lasted after losing a (think 1985
prices) $30,000 cash on the barrel-head sale?

Jill

"Doug Kanter" > wrote

> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that would
> have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
> feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.

I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said, obviously
there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.

Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
(sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
dog. Crapped all over my lawn.

Well, this guy is lucky I wasn't dressed for company, one day I was
looking out the side door, someone had left the gate open, the dog
was IN MY YARD. Two steps out the door, I would have shut the
gate and trapped the dog, mrwalkshisdogonotherpeoplesgrass would
have had to come get it. And hear it from me. And get THE LOOK.

I just thought of a funny story, this guy I worked with was extremely
heated under the collar about this subject. You did *not* want to
mess with his kids. One day his little daughter picked up a dog turd
from his lawn. Actual heat came off him telling me the story, he was
infuriated.

Now, I'm sorry to say this, I did have a picture of my dog ... well, we
called it 'AG has a cramp in her leg' (laugh), she had assumed the
position. Ron snapped a picture. I brought it in and, with a yellow
postit, I cut it into a shape (you know, like no smoking, whatever)
and stuck it on and left it on his desk.

Everyone thought it was hilarious. Mr. ****ed Off was still too mad
the next day to even crack a smile. No pun intended.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote
>
>> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
>> would have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That
>> leaves 8 feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy
>> vermin.
>
> I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
> lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said,
> obviously
> there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.
>
> Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
> when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
> (sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
> This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
> dog. Crapped all over my lawn.
>
> Well, this guy is lucky I wasn't dressed for company, one day I was
> looking out the side door, someone had left the gate open, the dog
> was IN MY YARD. Two steps out the door, I would have shut the
> gate and trapped the dog, mrwalkshisdogonotherpeoplesgrass would
> have had to come get it. And hear it from me. And get THE LOOK.
>
> I just thought of a funny story, this guy I worked with was extremely
> heated under the collar about this subject. You did *not* want to
> mess with his kids. One day his little daughter picked up a dog turd
> from his lawn. Actual heat came off him telling me the story, he was
> infuriated.
>
> Now, I'm sorry to say this, I did have a picture of my dog ... well, we
> called it 'AG has a cramp in her leg' (laugh), she had assumed the
> position. Ron snapped a picture. I brought it in and, with a yellow
> postit, I cut it into a shape (you know, like no smoking, whatever)
> and stuck it on and left it on his desk.
>
> Everyone thought it was hilarious. Mr. ****ed Off was still too mad
> the next day to even crack a smile. No pun intended.
>
> nancy
>
>

Glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets up in arms about this. I've done
a few interesting things in the past. Had a stray dog that crapped all over
the yard. Spoke (nicely) to the owner, but just once, which is my limit. She
said "Oh...my dog doesn't get off the property". I explained that I followed
it to her house. It didn't work. Later, I noticed a lovely yellow Corvette
parked there, which turned out to be her son's, who had moved back in with
mommy. Next time the dog visited my yard, I returned it to her house. Or, to
her son's car, to be precise. Jammed it down into the vent intakes by the
windshield, and into the driver's side door handle.

Never saw the dog again.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
.. .
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>> Andy wrote:
>>>>>>> jmcquown wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 100,000 mile/10 year warranty including powertrain and 24/7 free
>>>>>>>> roadside assistance. That plus an excellent little car, can't
>>>>>>>> beat it with a stick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you mean can't beat a manual transmission or the old saying?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Both. I always drive manual transmissions
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jill
>>>>>
>>>>> Why is it car dealers always want to sell me an automatic? I state
>>>>> specifically I want a standard transmission and they are all agape
>>>>> and agog - are you sure?! They still try to show me automatics.
>>>>> No, I don't want one. Yes, I'm sure. Why does that surprise them
>>>>> so much?
>>>>
>>>> Because they don't have as many standards on the lot most of the
>>>> time, and sometimes none at all. They figure you'll walk and head to
>>>> another dealer.
>>>
>>> Which I would, if they didn't have standards on the lot. But no,
>>> this was more like "but you're a WOMAN..."
>>>
>>> Jill
>>
>> What putzes, those salesmen. I bought my Toyota pickup from a woman
>> at the dealership. The showroom floor was spotless, so I slid under
>> the truck to look at attachment points for a towing hitch. She came
>> over, asked what I was looking at, slid under there with me, and gave
>> me a guided tour of all sorts of design features. Amazing product
>> knowledge. AND....she was a real dish! Too bad she had a ring on. I
>> could've spent a lot more time under there with her. :-(
>
> LOL Perhaps she'd encountered you in the produce aisle, hence the ring
>
> Back in the early '80's I went car shopping with my mom. She knew what
> she
> wanted. She (and Dad) had done their Consumer Reports research, etc. We
> looked around the lot, she found the model and features she wanted. The
> salesman took us to his office. The first thing he did was say something
> stupid like, "If you have to call your husband for permission we'll wait
> until he comes in." HUH?! We were outraged; I really couldn't believe
> he'd
> just said that. Mom replied, "Excuse me, I don't have to ask for
> 'permission' to buy anything. I was fully prepared to talk to you and if
> we
> came to an agreement, to write you a check IN FULL. Guess what, we're
> leaving."
>
> When we got home she told my dad and he called the manager of the
> dealership. Not only can his wife buy whatever she wants without his
> 'permission', they certainly would never buy anything from the dealership
> and indeed would tell *everyone* they knew not to buy anything from them,
> either.
>
> Wonder how long that crass salesman lasted after losing a (think 1985
> prices) $30,000 cash on the barrel-head sale?
>
> Jill
>
>

Where do these dinosaurs come from???

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "SD" > wrote in message
> >> >> oups.com...
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> > All I have to say is "Cookies" and I have 4 dogs diving
> >> >> > into crates waiting for cookies and kennel time.
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll take your word for it. But, until behavior like yours spreads to
> >> >> the
> >> >> rest of this country, and my neighborhood in particular, this is my
> >> >> preferred "cookie". Fortunately for the doggies and their twisted
> >> >> owners,
> >> >> it's not safe to use this "cookie" he
> >> >>
> >> >> http://www.springfield-armory.com/pr...-1911-ms.shtml
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > You could try training the dogs yourself.......
> >> >
> >> > Hotwires work wonders and are almost invisible.
> >>
> >> What are Hotwires?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Electric wires.
> >
> > Nearly invisible, inexpensive and instantly effective.
> > My BC tends to fence chase and she leaps so high, I was afraid she was
> > going to accidently go over the fence. She never really tried to, but it
> > was a risk we chose not to take.
> >
> > I strung a double hot wire along the fence line.
> >
> > Problem solved. ;-)
> >
> > Some people think they are creul but I don't agree. A dog will hit a
> > wire once, _maybe_ twice then will never go near it again.
>
> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that would
> have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
> feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.
>
>

I wonder...
Maybe you could get permission?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Richard Kaszeta > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet > writes:
> > I only adopt adult dogs now.
> > Even with their "bad habits", I've found them easier
> > to deal with than puppies. I don't usually have to
> > deal with the housebreaking issue, and dealt with the
> > destructive chewing issue using stuffed "Kongs".
>
> My aussie can shred a Kong in 5 minutes... Glad he doesn't chew random
> items anymore...

Really? :-)
That is an awfully tough toy!
Guess you might be best off with knucklebones then.
Those can also be stuffed.

>
> > It's kind of you to do foster training! Wish I had the time.
>
> Sometimes it is fun, sometimes it is hard, and once or twice it has
> been heartbreaking. But mostly the former, since there are a lot of
> dogs and cats that are fun to have for a while, and you can make a
> real difference in their outcome, but that many animals would burn me
> out long-term (for instance, having a cat and five kittens in the
> house while weaning was fun, but after that it was good to see them go
> to long-term homes). For that matter, my Aussie is my former foster
> dog that we liked so much he couldn't go back to the shelter.

That's what I'd be worried about.
Getting too attached.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 19:03:03 -0500, OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:


>> >Got scars?
>>
>> More then I wish to count, but most don't show when I'm dressed.
>> And they are fading.
>>
>> Pan Ohco
>>
>
>How long were you a cop?
>I take my hat off to ya! :-)
>
35 years.
>Cheers!


Pan Ohco

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...

>> >> What are Hotwires?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > Electric wires.
>> >
>> > Nearly invisible, inexpensive and instantly effective.
>> > My BC tends to fence chase and she leaps so high, I was afraid she was
>> > going to accidently go over the fence. She never really tried to, but
>> > it
>> > was a risk we chose not to take.
>> >
>> > I strung a double hot wire along the fence line.
>> >
>> > Problem solved. ;-)
>> >
>> > Some people think they are creul but I don't agree. A dog will hit a
>> > wire once, _maybe_ twice then will never go near it again.
>>
>> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
>> would
>> have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
>> feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.
>>
>>
>
> I wonder...
> Maybe you could get permission?

Nope. I had a sign at the corner saying "No dogs, no exceptions. This is a
garden". I was told "no variances". And, any closer to the street, the wires
would be buried by the snowplow anyway. I *will* be putting wires around the
vegetable garden next year, though. The deer are out of hand. Phuque Bambi.


Seriously, the best way to deal with dogs is to make it entertaining for ME,
and painful for them and their owners. Confrontation, calls to the police,
public humiliation - it's all part of the game. A friend just gave me a
lovely suggestion. Keep a can of day-glo orange spray paint by the door.
Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is paused with their vermin
doing its business, go out there and get "conversationally close" to the
person. Say nothing. Walk alongside them as they leave. At some point,
they're going to ask why I'm there. I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit
on it. I think your front door should be bright orange. I'm coming home with
you.". Just keep walking with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll
arrive at their place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.

Let me start off by saying that I absolutely love dogs. Have a couple of
pound muts now, and have had many in my life. When dogs are out with
their owners I have a hard time not asking to socialize with them.

But, when we lived in town, there was an owner up the street that
couldn't keep its dog in his yard. The dog would get picked up by the
humane society four or fives times a year. One of the dogs favorite pass
times was coming down and antagonizing my dogs behind their properly
working fence.

My solution to this was to stand at the door with my painball gun on
Friday afternoons and procede to "mark" the dog with hot pink paint as
it entered my yard. When questioned about this by the neighbor my reply
was, "do you really think that I came down to your house, a block away,
and painted your dog in your backyard over your fence?"

The dog quit coming by too, paintballs hurt a little.

Ryan

"Ryan Case" > wrote in message
...
> Let me start off by saying that I absolutely love dogs. Have a couple of
> pound muts now, and have had many in my life. When dogs are out with their
> owners I have a hard time not asking to socialize with them.
>
> But, when we lived in town, there was an owner up the street that couldn't
> keep its dog in his yard. The dog would get picked up by the humane
> society four or fives times a year. One of the dogs favorite pass times
> was coming down and antagonizing my dogs behind their properly working
> fence.
>
> My solution to this was to stand at the door with my painball gun on
> Friday afternoons and procede to "mark" the dog with hot pink paint as it
> entered my yard. When questioned about this by the neighbor my reply was,
> "do you really think that I came down to your house, a block away, and
> painted your dog in your backyard over your fence?"
>
> The dog quit coming by too, paintballs hurt a little.
>
> Ryan
>

This was suggested to me as a way of helping the dog catcher spot the
offending vermin.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article . com>,
> "SD" > wrote:
>
>
>>Doug Kanter wrote:
>>
>>>"Goomba38" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Doug Kanter wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be dogs
>>>>>which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
>>>>>harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
>>>>>that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
>>>>
>>>>I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
>>>>cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
>>>>Goomba
>>>
>>>Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
>>>collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a $600
>>>suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning experience
>>>for the lady. Expensive, too.
>>
>>It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
>>training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
>>inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
>>failings of it's owner.
>>
>>SD
>>
>
>
> Yes... and no.
>
> I have a Border collie and it's taken me two years of patient and
> vigilant training to teach her NOT to jump up! <sigh> There is just
> something about that breed of dog that makes that specific act difficult
> to train out! They DO so love to do that! And to "mouth" the hand.
>
> What finally worked for Jewely was to "allow" her to jump up on me with
> a SPECIFIC command/permission to do so.
>
> Once I started doing that, making her "sit" when she wanted so badly to
> jump up on me, then commanding her to jump up on me now and then, the
> problem went away. My housekeeper and her kids are my test subjects for
> this as her kids (4 and 6 years of age) just adore Jewels and help me
> "work" with her for stranger behavior. It's been a tough thing.
>
> Jewely is a dog pound adoptee at about 9 months of age, and I've had her
> for a little over 2 years now. I'm new to BC's and this has been a real
> training challenge. ;-) I'm used to Shelties and Australian shepard type
> dogs that are not quite so hyperactive.
>
> I've spoken with other BC owners on dog lists and this is a very common
> and difficult problem with this breed.
>
> Cheers!


Sheltie/Eskimo mix

http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/sammy1.jpg
http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/sammy2.jpg

And a who knows what mix

http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/riley1.jpg
http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/riley2.jpg

both pound rescues.

The sheltie mix did the campus mail deliveries every day with me for two
years of college. She was welcome in all the buildings and well known
across the campus. They even had food and water for her in the campus
security office of the "no-pets" campus.

When I first got her she was so terrified of people that reaching to pet
her would cause her to drop into a fetal position and wet herself.

Ryan

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
> Seriously, the best way to deal with dogs is to make it entertaining
> for ME, and painful for them and their owners. Confrontation, calls to
> the police, public humiliation - it's all part of the game. A friend
> just gave me a lovely suggestion. Keep a can of day-glo orange spray
> paint by the door. Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is
> paused with their vermin doing its business, go out there and get
> "conversationally close" to the person. Say nothing. Walk alongside
> them as they leave. At some point, they're going to ask why I'm there.
> I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit on it. I think your front door
> should be bright orange. I'm coming home with you.". Just keep walking
> with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll arrive at their
> place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

That appeals to me... BIG time))))

O

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
. uk...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Seriously, the best way to deal with dogs is to make it entertaining
>> for ME, and painful for them and their owners. Confrontation, calls to
>> the police, public humiliation - it's all part of the game. A friend
>> just gave me a lovely suggestion. Keep a can of day-glo orange spray
>> paint by the door. Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is
>> paused with their vermin doing its business, go out there and get
>> "conversationally close" to the person. Say nothing. Walk alongside
>> them as they leave. At some point, they're going to ask why I'm there.
>> I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit on it. I think your front door
>> should be bright orange. I'm coming home with you.". Just keep walking
>> with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll arrive at their
>> place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.
>
> ROFL ROFL ROFL
>
> That appeals to me... BIG time))))

Seriously, there's nothing at all illegal about it, as long as I don't paint
their door, or even set foot on their property. But, I'm sure they won't be
coming back here again. "That friggin' guy at #187....he's....how you
say....living in another world". And, that's exactly how I view THEM.

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "jmcquown" > wrote in message

>> Wonder how long that crass salesman lasted after losing a (think 1985
>> prices) $30,000 cash on the barrel-head sale?
>>
>> Jill
>>
>
> Where do these dinosaurs come from???

Carassic Park?!

Jill

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote
> >
> >> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
> >> would have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That
> >> leaves 8 feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy
> >> vermin.
> >
> > I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
> > lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said,
> > obviously
> > there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.
> >
> > Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
> > when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
> > (sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
> > This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
> > dog. Crapped all over my lawn.
> >
> > Well, this guy is lucky I wasn't dressed for company, one day I was
> > looking out the side door, someone had left the gate open, the dog
> > was IN MY YARD. Two steps out the door, I would have shut the
> > gate and trapped the dog, mrwalkshisdogonotherpeoplesgrass would
> > have had to come get it. And hear it from me. And get THE LOOK.
> >
> > I just thought of a funny story, this guy I worked with was extremely
> > heated under the collar about this subject. You did *not* want to
> > mess with his kids. One day his little daughter picked up a dog turd
> > from his lawn. Actual heat came off him telling me the story, he was
> > infuriated.
> >
> > Now, I'm sorry to say this, I did have a picture of my dog ... well, we
> > called it 'AG has a cramp in her leg' (laugh), she had assumed the
> > position. Ron snapped a picture. I brought it in and, with a yellow
> > postit, I cut it into a shape (you know, like no smoking, whatever)
> > and stuck it on and left it on his desk.
> >
> > Everyone thought it was hilarious. Mr. ****ed Off was still too mad
> > the next day to even crack a smile. No pun intended.
> >
> > nancy
> >
> >
>
> Glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets up in arms about this. I've done
> a few interesting things in the past. Had a stray dog that crapped all over
> the yard. Spoke (nicely) to the owner, but just once, which is my limit. She
> said "Oh...my dog doesn't get off the property". I explained that I followed
> it to her house. It didn't work. Later, I noticed a lovely yellow Corvette
> parked there, which turned out to be her son's, who had moved back in with
> mommy. Next time the dog visited my yard, I returned it to her house. Or, to
> her son's car, to be precise. Jammed it down into the vent intakes by the
> windshield, and into the driver's side door handle.
>
> Never saw the dog again.
>
>

I presume you mean you did that with the poop, not the dog? ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> >> What are Hotwires?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Electric wires.
> >> >
> >> > Nearly invisible, inexpensive and instantly effective.
> >> > My BC tends to fence chase and she leaps so high, I was afraid she was
> >> > going to accidently go over the fence. She never really tried to, but
> >> > it
> >> > was a risk we chose not to take.
> >> >
> >> > I strung a double hot wire along the fence line.
> >> >
> >> > Problem solved. ;-)
> >> >
> >> > Some people think they are creul but I don't agree. A dog will hit a
> >> > wire once, _maybe_ twice then will never go near it again.
> >>
> >> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
> >> would
> >> have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
> >> feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I wonder...
> > Maybe you could get permission?
>
> Nope. I had a sign at the corner saying "No dogs, no exceptions. This is a
> garden". I was told "no variances". And, any closer to the street, the wires
> would be buried by the snowplow anyway. I *will* be putting wires around the
> vegetable garden next year, though. The deer are out of hand. Phuque Bambi.
>
>
> Seriously, the best way to deal with dogs is to make it entertaining for ME,
> and painful for them and their owners. Confrontation, calls to the police,
> public humiliation - it's all part of the game. A friend just gave me a
> lovely suggestion. Keep a can of day-glo orange spray paint by the door.
> Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is paused with their vermin
> doing its business, go out there and get "conversationally close" to the
> person. Say nothing. Walk alongside them as they leave. At some point,
> they're going to ask why I'm there. I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit
> on it. I think your front door should be bright orange. I'm coming home with
> you.". Just keep walking with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll
> arrive at their place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.
>
>

Be sure to place the wires low...
One of my co-workers tried an electric fence for deer but set the two
wires fairly high.

Deer are stupid and panic. One deer hit the fence, panicked and thrashed
around. Ended up getting all tangled in the wire and dragging off the
wire and the transformer.

They were unable to track the deer down. It probably went off and died
somewhere.

Good luck! :-)

IMHO the best defense against deer and gardens is deer netting.
Lowe's sells it in 6' and it's fairly cheap.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Ryan Case > wrote:

> Let me start off by saying that I absolutely love dogs. Have a couple of
> pound muts now, and have had many in my life. When dogs are out with
> their owners I have a hard time not asking to socialize with them.
>
> But, when we lived in town, there was an owner up the street that
> couldn't keep its dog in his yard. The dog would get picked up by the
> humane society four or fives times a year. One of the dogs favorite pass
> times was coming down and antagonizing my dogs behind their properly
> working fence.
>
> My solution to this was to stand at the door with my painball gun on
> Friday afternoons and procede to "mark" the dog with hot pink paint as
> it entered my yard. When questioned about this by the neighbor my reply
> was, "do you really think that I came down to your house, a block away,
> and painted your dog in your backyard over your fence?"
>
> The dog quit coming by too, paintballs hurt a little.
>
> Ryan
>

That's a lovely idea! :-)
Harmless too!

Well done.....

Peronally, I use a squirt gun mixed with rubbing alcohol and skunk oil.
It's amazing what you can buy on the internet. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
>> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote
>> >
>> >> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
>> >> would have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That
>> >> leaves 8 feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy
>> >> vermin.
>> >
>> > I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
>> > lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said,
>> > obviously
>> > there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.
>> >
>> > Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
>> > when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
>> > (sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
>> > This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
>> > dog. Crapped all over my lawn.
>> >
>> > Well, this guy is lucky I wasn't dressed for company, one day I was
>> > looking out the side door, someone had left the gate open, the dog
>> > was IN MY YARD. Two steps out the door, I would have shut the
>> > gate and trapped the dog, mrwalkshisdogonotherpeoplesgrass would
>> > have had to come get it. And hear it from me. And get THE LOOK.
>> >
>> > I just thought of a funny story, this guy I worked with was extremely
>> > heated under the collar about this subject. You did *not* want to
>> > mess with his kids. One day his little daughter picked up a dog turd
>> > from his lawn. Actual heat came off him telling me the story, he was
>> > infuriated.
>> >
>> > Now, I'm sorry to say this, I did have a picture of my dog ... well, we
>> > called it 'AG has a cramp in her leg' (laugh), she had assumed the
>> > position. Ron snapped a picture. I brought it in and, with a yellow
>> > postit, I cut it into a shape (you know, like no smoking, whatever)
>> > and stuck it on and left it on his desk.
>> >
>> > Everyone thought it was hilarious. Mr. ****ed Off was still too mad
>> > the next day to even crack a smile. No pun intended.
>> >
>> > nancy
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets up in arms about this. I've
>> done
>> a few interesting things in the past. Had a stray dog that crapped all
>> over
>> the yard. Spoke (nicely) to the owner, but just once, which is my limit.
>> She
>> said "Oh...my dog doesn't get off the property". I explained that I
>> followed
>> it to her house. It didn't work. Later, I noticed a lovely yellow
>> Corvette
>> parked there, which turned out to be her son's, who had moved back in
>> with
>> mommy. Next time the dog visited my yard, I returned it to her house. Or,
>> to
>> her son's car, to be precise. Jammed it down into the vent intakes by the
>> windshield, and into the driver's side door handle.
>>
>> Never saw the dog again.
>>
>>
>
> I presume you mean you did that with the poop, not the dog? ;-)

Correct. And, the disposable cardboard spatula was quite innovative.

On another occasion, I brought a dog owner a picture taken in Montauk, L.I.,
at a time when some fishermen would hang shark heads on telephone poles
around marinas. I suggested that this might happen to dogs, too, if they
were unlucky enough to get caught. Obviously, I was REALLY ****ed off. The
cops showed up at my door two hours later, but apparently, it's not illegal
to say horrible things to dog owners, so all they could do was bitch at me.

"jmcquown" > wrote in message
.. .
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "jmcquown" > wrote in message
>
>>> Wonder how long that crass salesman lasted after losing a (think 1985
>>> prices) $30,000 cash on the barrel-head sale?
>>>
>>> Jill
>>>
>>
>> Where do these dinosaurs come from???
>
> Carassic Park?!
>
> Jill
>
>

<drum crash!>

"Is this an audience, or an oil painting?" -Henny Youngman

In article >,
Ryan Case > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article . com>,
> > "SD" > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Doug Kanter wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Goomba38" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>>Doug Kanter wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be dogs
> >>>>>which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
> >>>>>harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
> >>>>>that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
> >>>>
> >>>>I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> >>>>cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> >>>>Goomba
> >>>
> >>>Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> >>>collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a
> >>>$600
> >>>suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
> >>>experience
> >>>for the lady. Expensive, too.
> >>
> >>It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> >>training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> >>inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> >>failings of it's owner.
> >>
> >>SD
> >>
> >
> >
> > Yes... and no.
> >
> > I have a Border collie and it's taken me two years of patient and
> > vigilant training to teach her NOT to jump up! <sigh> There is just
> > something about that breed of dog that makes that specific act difficult
> > to train out! They DO so love to do that! And to "mouth" the hand.
> >
> > What finally worked for Jewely was to "allow" her to jump up on me with
> > a SPECIFIC command/permission to do so.
> >
> > Once I started doing that, making her "sit" when she wanted so badly to
> > jump up on me, then commanding her to jump up on me now and then, the
> > problem went away. My housekeeper and her kids are my test subjects for
> > this as her kids (4 and 6 years of age) just adore Jewels and help me
> > "work" with her for stranger behavior. It's been a tough thing.
> >
> > Jewely is a dog pound adoptee at about 9 months of age, and I've had her
> > for a little over 2 years now. I'm new to BC's and this has been a real
> > training challenge. ;-) I'm used to Shelties and Australian shepard type
> > dogs that are not quite so hyperactive.
> >
> > I've spoken with other BC owners on dog lists and this is a very common
> > and difficult problem with this breed.
> >
> > Cheers!
>
>
> Sheltie/Eskimo mix
>
> http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/sammy1.jpg
> http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/sammy2.jpg
>
> And a who knows what mix
>
> http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/riley1.jpg
> http://www.jamesrobert.us/images/riley2.jpg
>
> both pound rescues.
>
> The sheltie mix did the campus mail deliveries every day with me for two
> years of college. She was welcome in all the buildings and well known
> across the campus. They even had food and water for her in the campus
> security office of the "no-pets" campus.
>
> When I first got her she was so terrified of people that reaching to pet
> her would cause her to drop into a fetal position and wet herself.
>
> Ryan
>

Great shots! :-)
Dog noses are always cute...

Jewels still rolls over and piddles from time to time but is drastically
improved over what she was when I adopted her. She's still pretty
submissive and I'm fairly sure she was abused.

Cheers and thanks for sharing the pics!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...


> IMHO the best defense against deer and gardens is deer netting.
> Lowe's sells it in 6' and it's fairly cheap.

I'm wondering who I have to bribe to get a variance allowing me to build a
12' chain link fence, like they have behind baseball home plates. :-) I
really love my vegetable garden, so "overkill" is the operative word here.

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote
> >> >
> >> >> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
> >> >> would have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That
> >> >> leaves 8 feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy
> >> >> vermin.
> >> >
> >> > I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
> >> > lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said,
> >> > obviously
> >> > there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.
> >> >
> >> > Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
> >> > when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
> >> > (sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
> >> > This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
> >> > dog. Crapped all over my lawn.
> >> >
> >> > Well, this guy is lucky I wasn't dressed for company, one day I was
> >> > looking out the side door, someone had left the gate open, the dog
> >> > was IN MY YARD. Two steps out the door, I would have shut the
> >> > gate and trapped the dog, mrwalkshisdogonotherpeoplesgrass would
> >> > have had to come get it. And hear it from me. And get THE LOOK.
> >> >
> >> > I just thought of a funny story, this guy I worked with was extremely
> >> > heated under the collar about this subject. You did *not* want to
> >> > mess with his kids. One day his little daughter picked up a dog turd
> >> > from his lawn. Actual heat came off him telling me the story, he was
> >> > infuriated.
> >> >
> >> > Now, I'm sorry to say this, I did have a picture of my dog ... well, we
> >> > called it 'AG has a cramp in her leg' (laugh), she had assumed the
> >> > position. Ron snapped a picture. I brought it in and, with a yellow
> >> > postit, I cut it into a shape (you know, like no smoking, whatever)
> >> > and stuck it on and left it on his desk.
> >> >
> >> > Everyone thought it was hilarious. Mr. ****ed Off was still too mad
> >> > the next day to even crack a smile. No pun intended.
> >> >
> >> > nancy
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets up in arms about this. I've
> >> done
> >> a few interesting things in the past. Had a stray dog that crapped all
> >> over
> >> the yard. Spoke (nicely) to the owner, but just once, which is my limit.
> >> She
> >> said "Oh...my dog doesn't get off the property". I explained that I
> >> followed
> >> it to her house. It didn't work. Later, I noticed a lovely yellow
> >> Corvette
> >> parked there, which turned out to be her son's, who had moved back in
> >> with
> >> mommy. Next time the dog visited my yard, I returned it to her house. Or,
> >> to
> >> her son's car, to be precise. Jammed it down into the vent intakes by the
> >> windshield, and into the driver's side door handle.
> >>
> >> Never saw the dog again.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > I presume you mean you did that with the poop, not the dog? ;-)
>
> Correct. And, the disposable cardboard spatula was quite innovative.
>
> On another occasion, I brought a dog owner a picture taken in Montauk, L.I.,
> at a time when some fishermen would hang shark heads on telephone poles
> around marinas. I suggested that this might happen to dogs, too, if they
> were unlucky enough to get caught. Obviously, I was REALLY ****ed off. The
> cops showed up at my door two hours later, but apparently, it's not illegal
> to say horrible things to dog owners, so all they could do was bitch at me.
>
>

;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Doug Kanter" > wrote:

> "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> > IMHO the best defense against deer and gardens is deer netting.
> > Lowe's sells it in 6' and it's fairly cheap.
>
> I'm wondering who I have to bribe to get a variance allowing me to build a
> 12' chain link fence, like they have behind baseball home plates. :-) I
> really love my vegetable garden, so "overkill" is the operative word here.
>
>

I have a 6' perimeter fence in the back and I never get deer in my
garden... but I do have a dog loose in the yard! <lol>
I just "police" the yard daily.

I know a deer can clear a 6' fence, but they don't.
Deer graze right across the street from my yard too.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>>
>> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Seriously, the best way to deal with dogs is to make it entertaining
>>> for ME, and painful for them and their owners. Confrontation, calls
>>> to
>>> the police, public humiliation - it's all part of the game. A friend
>>> just gave me a lovely suggestion. Keep a can of day-glo orange spray
>>> paint by the door. Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal
>>> is
>>> paused with their vermin doing its business, go out there and get
>>> "conversationally close" to the person. Say nothing. Walk alongside
>>> them as they leave. At some point, they're going to ask why I'm
>>> there.
>>> I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit on it. I think your front
>>> door
>>> should be bright orange. I'm coming home with you.". Just keep
>>> walking
>>> with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll arrive at their
>>> place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.
>>
>> ROFL ROFL ROFL
>>
>> That appeals to me... BIG time))))
>
> Seriously, there's nothing at all illegal about it, as long as I don't
> paint their door, or even set foot on their property. But, I'm sure
> they won't be coming back here again. "That friggin' guy at
> #187....he's....how you say....living in another world". And, that's
> exactly how I view THEM.

I love it and it is imprinted on my mind)))))

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>
> > "OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> > > IMHO the best defense against deer and gardens is deer netting.
> > > Lowe's sells it in 6' and it's fairly cheap.
> >
> > I'm wondering who I have to bribe to get a variance allowing me to build a
> > 12' chain link fence, like they have behind baseball home plates. :-) I
> > really love my vegetable garden, so "overkill" is the operative word here.
> >
> >
>
> I have a 6' perimeter fence in the back and I never get deer in my
> garden... but I do have a dog loose in the yard! <lol>
> I just "police" the yard daily.
>
> I know a deer can clear a 6' fence, but they don't.
> Deer graze right across the street from my yard too.
> --

Deer don't like to jump into spaces that look too small, so a 6' fence
around a relatively small garden will often work, whereas they won't be
inhibited to jump a 6' fence around a large yard. -aem

Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> [snip] .... Keep a can of day-glo orange spray paint by the door.
> Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is paused with their vermin
> doing its business, go out there and get "conversationally close" to the
> person. Say nothing. Walk alongside them as they leave. At some point,
> they're going to ask why I'm there. I say "You think my lawn needs dog shit
> on it. I think your front door should be bright orange. I'm coming home with
> you.". Just keep walking with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or we'll
> arrive at their place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.

I thought you were going to spray the dog.... -aem

"aem" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>>
>> [snip] .... Keep a can of day-glo orange spray paint by the door.
>> Doesn't matter if it's empty. If a dog criminal is paused with their
>> vermin
>> doing its business, go out there and get "conversationally close" to the
>> person. Say nothing. Walk alongside them as they leave. At some point,
>> they're going to ask why I'm there. I say "You think my lawn needs dog
>> shit
>> on it. I think your front door should be bright orange. I'm coming home
>> with
>> you.". Just keep walking with them. Naturally, they'll either run, or
>> we'll
>> arrive at their place and they'll call the cops. Then the fun begins.
>
> I thought you were going to spray the dog.... -aem
>

No...the paint wouldn't kill it quickly enough. The vet might be able to
save its life. Unacceptable.

Yeah...I'm evil when it comes to dogs. :-)

Doug Kanter wrote:

>
> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that would
> have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That leaves 8
> feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy vermin.

You could always do what my grandmother did when someone with a St
Bernard, who didn't live on our street, wouldn't pick up after the dog.
She scooped the stuff up with a garden trowel, followed the guy home
and with one well placed flick of the wrist it was all over his front
doorstep with the comment that "you forgot something on my lawn." He
never came back down our street.

SD

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> It ticks me off when other dog owners "curb" their dogs on the front of
> my property.

Your property is full of poop what do you expect.

Sheldon

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "Nancy Young" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote
> >
> >> I wish I could use them, but I have a corner lot. Anything like that
> >> would have to be 8 feet in from the curb to comply with the law. That
> >> leaves 8 feet of open territory for the dog criminals and their filthy
> >> vermin.
> >
> > I wish I could remember what was on a sign at the edge of someone's
> > lawn ... it was funny. It was curb height, and whatever it said,
> > obviously
> > there was a 'turf war' so to speak, just as you describe.
> >
> > Blows my mind, you get a dog, you walk it on your own property,
> > when did it become my problem. Jerks. Few times, this Weimeraner
> > (sp) was all over my lawn, and right up to my front door! Excuse me!
> > This guy was walking down the street, this was his idea of walking his
> > dog. Crapped all over my lawn.
> >
> Glad to hear I'm not the only one who gets up in arms about this. I've done
> a few interesting things in the past.

Hey..I currently have 4 dogs and at one time had 7. I get ****ed off at
irresponsible owners also. If I can poop scoop after my pack, there's
no reason why other owners can't pick up after theirs. it's common
courtesy which it seems so many people lack nowadays. When I was
growing up, a neighbor had even trained his toy poodle to back up over
and poop on a piece of newspaper he would put on the street. He'd
simply roll it up and put it in the trash. We had poop scoop ordinances
and you could file a complaint with county police if you had a chronic
problem with an offending dog owner.

SD

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "SD" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > Doug Kanter wrote:
>
> >> Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> >> collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a
> >> $600
> >> suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning
> >> experience
> >> for the lady. Expensive, too.
> >
> > It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> > training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> > inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> > failings of it's owner.
> >
> > SD
> >
>
> You're right, but it doesn't matter. Everyone's conditioned by the living
> things they interact with, whether they be people, animals or plants with
> thorns. Dogs train their owners, who cut them way too much slack to do
> stupid things.
>
> And by the way, border collies have no use as pets in a typical
> neighborhood. Selective breeding has created dogs which, if they were
> people, would have flunked all their courses in high school and been in
> juvenile detention centers by age 18.

Um...I'm quite aware of the ins and outs of border collies, where they
do belong and don't belong, what they are best suited for and their
intelligence level. The combined dog training experience of me and my
SO totals well over 50 years in a variety of herding, working, and
terrier breeds. SO has been training and showing herding and working
breed dogs since 1957. We also own cattle/sheep herding dogs, currently
three, down from 5. The breed we own not only is used for herding but
the Dutch swat teams use them as their K-9 dog of choice. The SO has
also trained a few as personal protection dogs for high profile people
who don't want one of the traditional dogs used for protection work. If
you don't know what breed I'm talking about, good because we want to
keep it that way. Most of us who own this breed keep the PR way down
because they lousy pets for the average Joe. They invariably end up
being put down as being vicious or sent to rescue to be rehabbed as a
result of incompetent owners. We aquired one that way, from rescue
because the wife was terrified of it and the husband was always away
TDY in the military. The woman was terrieifed to train it her self and
sent it off to a number of trainers who did nothing more than create a
nearly psychotic dog. Dog training/obedience classes aren't about
traing the dog..they're about training the owner to train their dog.

SD

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "SD" > wrote:
>
> > Doug Kanter wrote:
> > > "Goomba38" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > Doug Kanter wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> Good parents, good dog owners. I suspect that the opposite would be dogs
> > > >> which slobber all over new visitors, even as the visitors gently (or
> > > >> harder) knee them in the face. What the hell's wrong with people like
> > > >> that, pretending not to notice that people don't want to be slobbered?
> > > > I'm a good parent and a good dog owner. My dogs do lick plates and
> > > > cookware yet never slobber on visitors.
> > > > Goomba
> > >
> > > Good for you. I once entered a relative's house, and her stupid border
> > > collie leapt onto my chest, got her claw stuck in the chest pocket of a $600
> > > suit, and tore the left panel right off the jacket. Big learning experience
> > > for the lady. Expensive, too.
> >
> > It wasn't her stupid border collie. I was HER STUPIDITY in not properly
> > training the dog. Most dog "problems" originate with the owners
> > inability to be responsible dog owners. You're blaming the dog for the
> > failings of it's owner.
> >
> > SD
> >
>
> Yes... and no.
>

It still boils down to stupidity of the owner. If the owner can't or
won't spend the time to work through or adapt to the behavior problems
or gets a dog that is not suitable for the owners life style, it's not
the dog's fault for being in that situation. It's the fault of the
human for setting the dog up to fail in the behavior department.

SD

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> How many people here let the dogs "pre-clean" the roasting pans?
> I know it sure makes cleaning them easier as the dogs really do a good
> job getting the "gross" off...
>
> I found, much to my surprise, that many of my co-workers join me in this
> practice when I've talked about it at work. :-)
>
> And I know the dogs sure appreciate it.
>
> I also let them do the skillet once in awhile if I've cooked something
> particularly messy. The border collie even gets her teeth into it and
> scrapes things pretty well.
>
> Cheers!

I don't, but I'll often scrape out some of the leavings into their bowls.

About the only time they get to "lick the plate" is when I've done burgers
on the grill and set them on a plate to rest while preparing the buns. The
dogs get to lick the resting plate after I've bunned the burger.

---jkb

--
Lisa: "Do we have any food that wasn't brutally slaughtered?"
Homer: "Well, I think the veal died of loneliness."

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" > wrote in message
...
> How many people here let the dogs "pre-clean" the roasting pans?
> I know it sure makes cleaning them easier as the dogs really do a good
> job getting the "gross" off...
>
> I found, much to my surprise, that many of my co-workers join me in this
> practice when I've talked about it at work. :-)
>
> And I know the dogs sure appreciate it.
>
> I also let them do the skillet once in awhile if I've cooked something
> particularly messy. The border collie even gets her teeth into it and
> scrapes things pretty well.


All my life I've had all sorts of pets. At the moment I have a husband, a
10 year old girl, a lab x, 2 cats, a budgie, and assorted goldfish. All of
which are allowed to 'clean' the plates (although usually the goldfish and
budgie don't!). I couldn't imagine it any other way, they're all family! I
try to keep the house clean, and I vacuum and wash the floors almost very
day, but I know there is going to be germs around, and there's not much I
can do about it. I like to look at it another way - we've probably all got
very good resistance to lots of things!!.

--
Jen

Jen wrote:

> All my life I've had all sorts of pets. At the moment I have a husband, a
> 10 year old girl, a lab x, 2 cats, a budgie, and assorted goldfish. All of
> which are allowed to 'clean' the plates (although usually the goldfish and
> budgie don't!). I couldn't imagine it any other way, they're all family! I
> try to keep the house clean, and I vacuum and wash the floors almost very
> day, but I know there is going to be germs around, and there's not much I
> can do about it. I like to look at it another way - we've probably all got
> very good resistance to lots of things!!.

So true. Exposure to germs strengthens our immune systems. When I a w wee tot my
mother caught me drinking out of the ditch and rushed me to the doctor. The
doctor told her that if I was the result of drinking ditch water he was going to
start prescribing it for children.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed 26 Oct 2005 08:25:21p, Syssi wrote in rec.food.cooking:
>
>>
>>
>> "Jen" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> but, but, but dogs lick their bits and the bits of any other dog
>>>>> >> they come across......
>>>
>>>
>>> I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to scratch
>>> their bums.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jen ---------------
>>
>> I read a quote a couple of months ago (but forgot the lady's name...I
>> have it typewritten at work though!), "There are no bad dogs as there
>> are no bad men; it's all in their training."
>>
>> <shrug> It just seemed appropriate!
>>
>
> You are both wicked and evil she-devils and deserve to have neither dogs
> nor men! :-)
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
------------------

And surprisingly enough...I have both!!

Have I told you why men like women in leather?

--
Syssi

"Peter Huebner" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Barabara Woodehouse. walkies? Her book was something along the lines
>> "No Bad Dogs."
>>
>
> Yeah, right. What's _bad_? I've had 'too smart for their own good dogs',
> 'stupid dogs', 'extremely stupid dogs', 'wired back to front dogs' and
> 'bloody hysterical dogs' as well as 'f8ck you boss, I can make up my own
> mind dogs'. None of them were bad as in nasty or dangerous, but very bad
> for training as skilled working dogs. At the moment I've an 18month
> border collie who's stupid and pigheaded, the only thing he gets
> enthusiastic about is the sound of the atv, and racing it; he still
> hasn't learned where the end of his chain is - we're trying to find a
> job for him as pet, because he'll never cut the mustard on the farm.
> His full sister is absolutely fabulous. Keen, intelligent, listens and
> learning to work (and loving it).
>
> A seeing eye dog that chases trucks is BAD in my book ...
>
> -P.
>
----------------------

<snorting & giggling>

I know it's 'wrong' but that's just funny. <!!!>

I'm sorry but that really tickled me. Good thing I already finished my hot
chocolate.

--
Syssi

"smithfarms pure kona" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 19:12:59 +1300, Peter Huebner
> > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
says...
>>>
>>> Barabara Woodehouse. walkies? Her book was something along the
> lines
>>> "No Bad Dogs."
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, right. What's _bad_? I've had 'too smart for their own good
> dogs',
>>'stupid dogs', 'extremely stupid dogs', 'wired back to front dogs'
> and
>>'bloody hysterical dogs' as well as 'f8ck you boss, I can make up my
> own
>>mind dogs'. None of them were bad as in nasty or dangerous, but very
> bad
>>for training as skilled working dogs. At the moment I've an 18month
>>border collie who's stupid and pigheaded, the only thing he gets
>>enthusiastic about is the sound of the atv, and racing it; he still
>>hasn't learned where the end of his chain is - we're trying to find a
>>job for him as pet, because he'll never cut the mustard on the farm.
>>His full sister is absolutely fabulous. Keen, intelligent, listens
> and
>>learning to work (and loving it).
>>
>>A seeing eye dog that chases trucks is BAD in my book ...
>>
>>-P.
>
> Oh dear. I agree we've had similar dogs. Our BC gets excited over
> the neighbor's atv too. But we have wild chickens for her to work and
> last night our 9 month old BC caught, proudly carried around for an
> hour and then she ate a whole wild hen. Right now I can hear her
> trying to get some dog cookies off the counter. She quietly leaps up
> to the counter and tries to get her own snacks. Our first BC.
>
> aloha, Thunder
> ----------------

My dear BIL recently had to put down his Chow/Golden mix. Koko must have
been about 18 but I digress. About 5 years ago and already suffering from
major arthritis issues... Pete (BIL) and Koko were visiting with relatives
(Nancy & Roger, sis & bil) that had a mini-farm... You know the sort -
chickens, ducks, geese... Well... ole Daffy was Nancy & Roger's favorite
duck. They made a few inquiring questions to Pete about Koko and worried
that he might 'bother' the animals... <G> Pete informs them that they
shouldn't worry... poor old Koko has to take aspirin and other medicinal
things and can barely walk, much less run and chase critters. Well dang if
ole Koko remembered his 'animal instincts'... his nose started wriggling
and his ears perked up. After his tail started moving... well low and
behold that damned ole dog hauled ass and jumped one of the nearly 4 feet
high fences and put Daffy 'under'. Nancy teared up, Roger shook his head
while muttering something that was probably best not being understood and
Pete just grinned. In spite of knowing that his dog would never be welcome
to roam the relatives' land again... he was so pleased that he got to do
what dogs love to do. <sniff> Koko, baby, rest in peace. You earned it
(well, sometimes...)
--
Syssi

<snip>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think dogs are just like men, but they don't have hands to scratch
>>>>> their bums.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jen ---------------
>>>>
>>>> I read a quote a couple of months ago (but forgot the lady's name...I
>>>> have it typewritten at work though!), "There are no bad dogs as there
>>>> are no bad men; it's all in their training."
>>>>
>>>> <shrug> It just seemed appropriate!
>>>>
>>>
>>> You are both wicked and evil she-devils and deserve to have neither dogs
>>> nor men! :-)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
>> ------------------
>>
>> And surprisingly enough...I have both!!
>>
>> Have I told you why men like women in leather?
>>
>
> That is an answer I am not seeking. :-)
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*
> ------------------

CHICKEN!!!


--
Syssi