Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
which were as 'tough as old boots!'

The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.

They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
cakes, which were actually quite nice.

Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
--
Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea

Sally Swindells wrote:

> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>
> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>
> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>
> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?

I have only had skate wing once, about a year ago. I dredged it in
seasoned flour and fried it in butter, a few minutes per side. It was
very tender, much like sole. Twenty minutes sounds like long time to cook
it.

Sally Swindells wrote:

> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.

It was a way longer than usual time. They either need to be cooked for a
short time or a very long time. Like squid.

The most common way of cooking them is a fast fry in butter which is
permitted to become brown butter. It's a sear more than a real fry.

If poaching, even 12 minutes is getting out close to too long. I'm
assuming that these wings were from reasonably small critters - not like
a foot across or even close.

Pastorio

> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>
> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
> --
> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
>

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> I have only had skate wing once, about a year ago. I dredged
> it in seasoned flour and fried it in butter, a few minutes
> per side. It was very tender, much like sole. Twenty minutes
> sounds like a long time to cook it.

Agreed. Quoting from:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...v20/ai_4254547

George Lang's Cafe des Artistes in New York is also serving
grilled skate wing with a butter and fresh herb sauce. Andrew
Young pointed out, however, that if skate is treated improperly,
it becomes extremely tough. "If skate is sauteed, it should be
kept on the heat only for a very short time," he added.

In article >,
Sally Swindells > wrote:

> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>
> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>
> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>
> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
> --
> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
>

Did you peel them?
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Sally Swindells wrote:
>
> > Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> > which were as 'tough as old boots!'
> >
> > The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> > sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> > 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> > chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> > cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> > each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
> >
> > They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> > processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> > cakes, which were actually quite nice.
> >
> > Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
>
> I have only had skate wing once, about a year ago. I dredged it in
> seasoned flour and fried it in butter, a few minutes per side. It was
> very tender, much like sole. Twenty minutes sounds like long time to cook
> it.

Mom always removed the meat from the cartalige, poached for about 10
minutes and served them in a white sauce.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Sally Swindells wrote:
>
>> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
>> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
>> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
>> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
>> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
>> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>
> It was a way longer than usual time. They either need to be cooked for a
> short time or a very long time. Like squid.
>
> The most common way of cooking them is a fast fry in butter which is
> permitted to become brown butter. It's a sear more than a real fry.
>
> If poaching, even 12 minutes is getting out close to too long. I'm
> assuming that these wings were from reasonably small critters - not like a
> foot across or even close.

In my experience, a foot across is a very small skate. We have caught
hundreds over the years and very few are that small. We never figured out
how to cook them, however. We had heard that properly prepared the wings
taste like scallops. Not to us!

--
Peter Aitken

Peter Aitken wrote:
>
> We had heard that properly prepared the wings
> taste like scallops. Not to us!

One of my college professors asserted that
counterfeit scallops were made by punching
them out of skate wings.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>>
>> We had heard that properly prepared the wings
>> taste like scallops. Not to us!
>
> One of my college professors asserted that
> counterfeit scallops were made by punching
> them out of skate wings.

It's true. I have also heard that they might be made of
shark. I think it was Stan who said check out the scallops,
if they are all identical size, that's a tipoff.

nancy

Peter Aitken wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Sally Swindells wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
>>>sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
>>>20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
>>>chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
>>>cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
>>>each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>>
>>It was a way longer than usual time. They either need to be cooked for a
>>short time or a very long time. Like squid.
>>
>>The most common way of cooking them is a fast fry in butter which is
>>permitted to become brown butter. It's a sear more than a real fry.
>>
>>If poaching, even 12 minutes is getting out close to too long. I'm
>>assuming that these wings were from reasonably small critters - not like a
>>foot across or even close.
>
>
> In my experience, a foot across is a very small skate. We have caught
> hundreds over the years and very few are that small.

Unclear writing on my part. I was referring to each wing as being that
size. Sorry.

> We never figured out
> how to cook them, however. We had heard that properly prepared the wings
> taste like scallops. Not to us!

Yeah. I've heard that, too and never found it to be the case, either.
Simplest way is grill them or saute them. Very subtle flavor so no
strong condiments.

Pastorio

Nancy Young wrote:
> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Peter Aitken wrote:
>>
>>>We had heard that properly prepared the wings
>>>taste like scallops. Not to us!
>>
>>One of my college professors asserted that
>>counterfeit scallops were made by punching
>>them out of skate wings.
>
> It's true. I have also heard that they might be made of
> shark. I think it was Stan who said check out the scallops,
> if they are all identical size, that's a tipoff.

Actually, it's not at all true. Very different textures for all of them.
The meat of skate wings looks different than scallop meat and is more
firm to the touch. And shark is a fish, nothing like scallop.

If the scallops are of reasonably identical size, they've been graded by
weight and are being sold that way.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" > wrote

> Nancy Young wrote:

>> It's true. I have also heard that they might be made of
>> shark. I think it was Stan who said check out the scallops,
>> if they are all identical size, that's a tipoff.
>
> Actually, it's not at all true.

Oh, there was a big brouhaha in the papers here some
years ago, places selling skate as scallops. They did mention
about the shark but my recollection isn't clear if they actually
found that or not.

I just googled and right away found this:

http://www.foodsubs.com/Shelfish.html

nancy

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:
>Dave Smith wrote:
>> I have only had skate wing once, about a year ago. I dredged
>> it in seasoned flour and fried it in butter, a few minutes
>> per side. It was very tender, much like sole. Twenty minutes
>> sounds like a long time to cook it.
>
>Agreed. Quoting from:
>http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...v20/ai_4254547
>
>George Lang's Cafe des Artistes in New York is also serving
>grilled skate wing with a butter and fresh herb sauce.

Baba Neo in Mountain View serves it occasionally also. I like it.

-A

Nancy Young wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote
>
>>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>>It's true. I have also heard that they might be made of
>>>shark. I think it was Stan who said check out the scallops,
>>>if they are all identical size, that's a tipoff.
>>
>>Actually, it's not at all true.
>
> Oh, there was a big brouhaha in the papers here some
> years ago, places selling skate as scallops.

It would have to be a pretty dumb buyer not to spot the difference.

> They did mention
> about the shark but my recollection isn't clear if they actually
> found that or not.
>
> I just googled and right away found this:
>
> http://www.foodsubs.com/Shelfish.html

Well, that's generally an accurate site, but not this time. They're
saying that cod cheeks can be substituted for scallops. Not a chance, if
the substitution is to go undetected.

Shark flesh is fish-like because it's a fish. It flakes unlike scallop
adductor muscles (the part we eat). It's used for fish and chips in the
U.K. and often served in restaurants here as steaks. We served them in
several of my restaurants. No chance of confusing scallops with shark.

Skate has a texture that's more firm than scallops. More gelatinous. And
the grain of the skate meat is horizontal where scallop grain is
vertical. The skate wing has a piece of cartilage running through the
center horizontally that separates two thin sheets of meat that are
what's edible.

I suppose it could be done if the dish were sufficiently complicated and
the finished presentation masked the "scallop" enough and the skate were
a giant so the flesh parts of the wing were thick. But plain grilled,
sauteed or broiled skate wouldn't easily pass for scallops.

They also say on this web site that monkfish is served as scallops.

Here's a lot about fish of all sorts. <http://tinyurl.com/9vg2n>
And some more <http://tinyurl.com/87vgj>

In all my years of restaurant operations, I've never seen "scallops"
made from skate wings. But I've heard about it. Maybe my fish guys knew
me better than to try. Dunno...

Pastorio

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Peter Aitken wrote:
> >
> > We had heard that properly prepared the wings
> > taste like scallops. Not to us!
>
> One of my college professors asserted that
> counterfeit scallops were made by punching
> them out of skate wings.

Stingray.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> And shark is a fish

Not really... ;-)
They are related to skates and rays.
Class chondroicthyes or cartilaginous fish.

Bony fish are Osteichthyes.

Different skelatal structures and reproductive systems.

Far more primitive.

But I do agree that shark does not taste like skate, or anything
remotely resembling scallops.

I have been told that cut Stingray is supposed to taste similar, but
I've never had the chance to try Stingray.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
>>Peter Aitken wrote:
>>
>>>We had heard that properly prepared the wings
>>>taste like scallops. Not to us!
>>
>>One of my college professors asserted that
>>counterfeit scallops were made by punching
>>them out of skate wings.
>
> Stingray.

Very close kin - cartilage-skeleton critters. And I've never seen it in
all my years. Just shows you how bad public schools are.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" > wrote

> Nancy Young wrote:

>> I just googled and right away found this:
>>
>> http://www.foodsubs.com/Shelfish.html
>
> Well, that's generally an accurate site, but not this time.

Bob, several people have said they've heard of the practice, and
now a site you agree is usually reliable says it, even including the
shark, and you still say it doesn't happen?

The fact is, substitutions are widely done in the fish world, not just
with scallops. Perhaps you wouldn't be fooled, but you can bet a lot
of people would be. I think I'd know a sea scallop but I wouldn't
swear to it, and bay scallops? Forget it, you could easily fool me.
I just don't eat much in the way of seafood.

There was another big stink (no pun intended) in the news about
fish a few years back, redfish? ha! it's really (whatever) at redfish
prices.
Etc. Happens all the time.

> In all my years of restaurant operations, I've never seen "scallops" made
> from skate wings. But I've heard about it. Maybe my fish guys knew me
> better than to try. Dunno...

See, even you've heard about it, so it's not something we've snatched
out of thin air. It is done, it is true.

nancy

In article >,
says...
>
> I have been told that cut Stingray is supposed to taste similar, but
> I've never had the chance to try Stingray.
>

I have. A friend kept catching them so one day I went over there and did
my skate receipe. Waste of time. Stingray is a lot like stringy
tasteless cardboard. You could possibly grind it, douse it with
artificial flavours and sell it for crapsticks, but otherwise a flop.
Unfortunate, since they are big and numerous here. We have lots of 6'
stingrays in the harbour.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article > ,
Peter Huebner > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > I have been told that cut Stingray is supposed to taste similar, but
> > I've never had the chance to try Stingray.
> >
>
> I have. A friend kept catching them so one day I went over there and did
> my skate receipe. Waste of time. Stingray is a lot like stringy
> tasteless cardboard. You could possibly grind it, douse it with
> artificial flavours and sell it for crapsticks, but otherwise a flop.
> Unfortunate, since they are big and numerous here. We have lots of 6'
> stingrays in the harbour.
>
> -P.

How long did you cook it?

Just curious! I've heard varying stories about stingray...
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
says...
> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>
> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>
> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>
> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
> --
> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
>

Odd. I've never had that happen. I put mine in cold water (skin on) with
a Tsp or 2 of pickling spice and 1/2 cup wine, bring to the boil, then
turn it down so it barely simmers. About 10-12 minutes seems to be
plenty for 1 1/2 inch thick skate wings. Skin them before serving.

I heat some oil in another pot, add rubbed tarragon, whisk in 2 Tbsp
flour (blonde roux) and then add water until I have a white sauce. Take
off the flame and add hot mustard to taste. Douse the fish & taters with
mustard sauce :-)

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:52:32 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Sally Swindells > wrote:
>
>> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
>> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>>
>> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
>> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
>> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
>> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
>> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
>> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>>
>> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
>> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
>> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>>
>> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
>> --
>> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
>>
>
>Did you peel them?

Thanks everyone for your help.

They were approx 10" x 7" each, and were cooked on the bone unskinned.

We have had them before but not often, and this was a new recipe with
the longer cooking time. Will try them again using the shorter cooking
time recipe, as it seems there is a consensus that this was the reason
for the rubberyness.

When we lived inland I bought some from a fish shop and when I started
to prepare them found they smelt of ammonia. They went straight in the
bin, but according to one of my cookery books some people rinse them
off and cook them. It must be something peculiar to skate. They smelt
horrible! Now at least I know they are fresh.
--
Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~

In article >,
Sally Swindells > wrote:

> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:52:32 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > Sally Swindells > wrote:
> >
> >> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> >> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
> >>
> >> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> >> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> >> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> >> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> >> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> >> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
> >>
> >> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> >> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> >> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
> >>
> >> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
> >> --
> >> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
> >>
> >
> >Did you peel them?
>
> Thanks everyone for your help.
>
> They were approx 10" x 7" each, and were cooked on the bone unskinned.
>
> We have had them before but not often, and this was a new recipe with
> the longer cooking time. Will try them again using the shorter cooking
> time recipe, as it seems there is a consensus that this was the reason
> for the rubberyness.
>
> When we lived inland I bought some from a fish shop and when I started
> to prepare them found they smelt of ammonia. They went straight in the
> bin, but according to one of my cookery books some people rinse them
> off and cook them. It must be something peculiar to skate. They smelt
> horrible! Now at least I know they are fresh.
> --
> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~
>
>

Mom used a white vinegar rinse for that.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Nancy Young wrote:
>
> Bob, several people have said they've heard of the practice,
> and now a site you agree is usually reliable says it, even
> including the shark, and you still say it doesn't happen?

I'll bet he doesn't believe in ESP or UFO's either,
even though there's tons of people who've experienced
them (or know people who have)! :-)

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> I suppose it could be done if the dish were sufficiently complicated
> and the finished presentation masked the "scallop" enough and the skate
> were a giant so the flesh parts of the wing were thick. But plain
> grilled, sauteed or broiled skate wouldn't easily pass for scallops.

One of the ways the public knows they're scallops
is that they are breaded and deep-fried.

(How do you sautee them? Do you scrape off the
crust first? :-)

Sally Swindells wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Oct 2005 14:52:32 -0600, OmManiPadmeOmelet
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article >,
>>Sally Swindells > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
>>>which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>>>
>>>The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
>>>sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
>>>20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
>>>chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
>>>cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
>>>each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>>>
>>>They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
>>>processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
>>>cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>>>
>>>Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?
>>>--
>>>Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~where the fish is fresh from the sea
>>>
>>
>>Did you peel them?
>
>
> Thanks everyone for your help.
>
> They were approx 10" x 7" each, and were cooked on the bone unskinned.
>
> We have had them before but not often, and this was a new recipe with
> the longer cooking time. Will try them again using the shorter cooking
> time recipe, as it seems there is a consensus that this was the reason
> for the rubberyness.
>
> When we lived inland I bought some from a fish shop and when I started
> to prepare them found they smelt of ammonia. They went straight in the
> bin, but according to one of my cookery books some people rinse them
> off and cook them. It must be something peculiar to skate. They smelt
> horrible! Now at least I know they are fresh.
> --
> Sally at the Seaside~~~~~~~
>
>

It might be the same that happens with sharks and sting rays. After a
while they start smelling of ammonia. Something about the urea in their
blood being broken down. I think the small can occur, if the carcass is
not well drained.

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>Bob, several people have said they've heard of the practice,
>>and now a site you agree is usually reliable says it, even
>>including the shark, and you still say it doesn't happen?
>
>
> I'll bet he doesn't believe in ESP or UFO's either,
> even though there's tons of people who've experienced
> them (or know people who have)! :-)

Yes.

Pastorio

Sally Swindells wrote:
> They were approx 10" x 7" each, and were cooked on the bone unskinned.
>
> We have had them before but not often, and this was a new recipe with
> the longer cooking time. Will try them again using the shorter cooking
> time recipe, as it seems there is a consensus that this was the reason
> for the rubberyness.
>
> When we lived inland I bought some from a fish shop and when I started
> to prepare them found they smelt of ammonia. They went straight in the
> bin, but according to one of my cookery books some people rinse them
> off and cook them. It must be something peculiar to skate. They smelt
> horrible! Now at least I know they are fresh.

Skates, like sharks excrete urine through their skin. That smell is
usually a signal that it's been out of water too long. Not fresh.

Pastorio

Mark Thorson wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
>>I suppose it could be done if the dish were sufficiently complicated
>>and the finished presentation masked the "scallop" enough and the skate
>>were a giant so the flesh parts of the wing were thick. But plain
>>grilled, sauteed or broiled skate wouldn't easily pass for scallops.
>
>
> One of the ways the public knows they're scallops
> is that they are breaded and deep-fried.
>
> (How do you sautee them? Do you scrape off the
> crust first? :-)

<LOL> Yes, but only if you're running a very high-class restaurant.

Pastorio

Nancy Young wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote
>
>>Nancy Young wrote:
>
>>>I just googled and right away found this:
>>>
>>>http://www.foodsubs.com/Shelfish.html
>>
>>Well, that's generally an accurate site, but not this time.
>
> Bob, several people have said they've heard of the practice, and
> now a site you agree is usually reliable says it, even including the
> shark, and you still say it doesn't happen?

We've all heard of things that didn't happen. The poodle being dried in
a microwave, the hook on the car door handle...

Whoever wrote that about shark being served as scallops has never
handled and cooked shark. There's not the remotest possibility of
confusing the two. Shark eats like fish. I've cooked literally thousands
of pounds of it in my various operations. Not a chance they'd be confused.

> The fact is, substitutions are widely done in the fish world, not just
> with scallops. Perhaps you wouldn't be fooled, but you can bet a lot
> of people would be.

I truly doubt it in the case of scallops. And I say that because I've
handled probably 50 different kinds of fish, shellfish and mollusks over
the years. Cooked, raw (where safe), pickled, preserved...

I have yet to see anything that can be substituted for scallops
convincingly. Or even remotely.

> I think I'd know a sea scallop but I wouldn't
> swear to it, and bay scallops? Forget it, you could easily fool me.
> I just don't eat much in the way of seafood.

Then you're not likely to buy scallops and are no judge of them. But
people who do won't be fooled by shark meat or punched out skate wings.
They don't look the same or even close to scallops.

> There was another big stink (no pun intended) in the news about
> fish a few years back, redfish? ha! it's really (whatever) at redfish
> prices. Etc. Happens all the time.

Substituting one kind of fish for another is something I could do all
day long and no one could tell except someone extremely knowledgeable.
There are four or five textures of fin fish and that's all there is. If
I served a flatfish sauteed in butter and dressed with parsley, I
daresay not one in 10,000 could identify what kind it is. But if I
served shark - any shark - next to a scallop, the difference is like
beef and grapefruit. No relationship to each other. Texture, flavor,
color, mouthfeel, smell, bite - all different from each other.

>>In all my years of restaurant operations, I've never seen "scallops" made
>>from skate wings. But I've heard about it. Maybe my fish guys knew me
>>better than to try. Dunno...
>
> See, even you've heard about it, so it's not something we've snatched
> out of thin air. It is done, it is true.

Because we've heard of it doesn't mean it happens. Having heard of it is
no more an indication of truth than having heard about dragons and
ghosts and faces on Mars.

I haven't said it's not true, I've said that in more than three decades
of active involvement in all phases of professional foodservice, I've
never seen it. In all my operations, I was the purchasing agent and
executive chef and we served an awful lot of water critters. I never saw
it. Not once.

I might begin to believe it if someone whose knowledge I trusted said he
or she had seen it firsthand. Until then... Nope. It's an unproven
assertion. An urban legend until I see something that actually proves it.

Pastorio

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> "Bob (this one)" > wrote:
>
>>And shark is a fish
>
> Not really... ;-)

Yes. Really. "It is believed that sharks arose in the sea, but that the
bony fishes arose in fresh water."

> They are related to skates and rays.
> Class chondroicthyes or cartilaginous fish.

Um, sharks and rays and all the rest of the cartilaginous critters are
classed with fish. "Chondrichthyes means "cartilage fishes"."

> Bony fish are Osteichthyes.
>
> Different skelatal structures and reproductive systems.

But all fish. Bones aren't the distinguishing characteristics of fish.
And the range of reproductive systems just among sharks is bizarre
enough. Neither is a determinant.

> Far more primitive.

"At one time, it was thought that the cartilaginous condition was
primitive but now it is thought that it evolved as a specialization."
<http://www.bio.miami.edu/tom/bil160/bil160goods/19_verts1.html>
All quoted notes from this web site.

> But I do agree that shark does not taste like skate, or anything
> remotely resembling scallops.
>
> I have been told that cut Stingray is supposed to taste similar, but
> I've never had the chance to try Stingray.

Stingray and skate are essentially indistinguishable, culinarily speaking.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
>
> Whoever wrote that about shark being served as scallops has never
> handled and cooked shark. There's not the remotest possibility of
> confusing the two.

If you have never had either, how would you know? A lot of shitty
restaurants pass off one thing as another. Most sheeple wouldn't know
the difference.
<snip>

>
> Then you're not likely to buy scallops and are no judge of them.

Why would she not belikely to buy scallops? We all tried them once for
the first time, sometime. And one doesn't have to be a good judge of
something to be fooled.
<snip>

>
> Substituting one kind of fish for another is something I could do all
> day long and no one could tell except someone extremely knowledgeable.
> There are four or five textures of fin fish and that's all there is. If
> I served a flatfish sauteed in butter and dressed with parsley, I
> daresay not one in 10,000 could identify what kind it is. But if I
> served shark - any shark - next to a scallop, the difference is like
> beef and grapefruit. No relationship to each other. Texture, flavor,
> color, mouthfeel, smell, bite - all different from each other.

Which matters not one iota if the diner has never had scallops or
shark.
<snip>

>
> I might begin to believe it if someone whose knowledge I trusted said he
> or she had seen it firsthand. Until then... Nope. It's an unproven
> assertion. An urban legend until I see something that actually proves it.
>

Oh please. You can bet that some jerk somewhere is passing off skate,
shark - or any other lower-cost seafood item - as scallops. Or cat as
duck. Or turkey as ostrich. Or whatever.

-L.

In article >,
says...
>
> How long did you cook it?
>
> Just curious! I've heard varying stories about stingray...
>

The usual - in other words until the protein was just coagulated right
through. No longer, and at a bare simmer. Probably 10-12 minutes.
It's been near enough to 10 years though, so don't hold me to it ;-)

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

-L. wrote:
> Bob (this one) wrote:
>
>>Whoever wrote that about shark being served as scallops has never
>>handled and cooked shark. There's not the remotest possibility of
>>confusing the two.
>
> If you have never had either, how would you know? A lot of shitty
> restaurants pass off one thing as another. Most sheeple wouldn't know
> the difference.
> <snip>

You seem to be confining your observations to people who know nothing
about what they're eating. The only problem with that is the restaurants
don't know who's knowledgeable and who isn't. What do they do, ask
customers to fill out a form first so they know who to screw?

>>Then you're not likely to buy scallops and are no judge of them.
>
> Why would she not belikely to buy scallops?

She said she doesn't do much seafood.

> We all tried them once for
> the first time, sometime. And one doesn't have to be a good judge of
> something to be fooled.
> <snip>

Right. And what about the second time? Or are we now limiting this
discourse to first timers only?

>>Substituting one kind of fish for another is something I could do all
>>day long and no one could tell except someone extremely knowledgeable.
>>There are four or five textures of fin fish and that's all there is. If
>>I served a flatfish sauteed in butter and dressed with parsley, I
>>daresay not one in 10,000 could identify what kind it is. But if I
>>served shark - any shark - next to a scallop, the difference is like
>>beef and grapefruit. No relationship to each other. Texture, flavor,
>>color, mouthfeel, smell, bite - all different from each other.
>
> Which matters not one iota if the diner has never had scallops or
> shark.
> <snip>

<LOL> Did you just post for the sake of doing it?

>>I might begin to believe it if someone whose knowledge I trusted said he
>>or she had seen it firsthand. Until then... Nope. It's an unproven
>>assertion. An urban legend until I see something that actually proves it.
>>
> Oh please. You can bet that some jerk somewhere is passing off skate,
> shark - or any other lower-cost seafood item - as scallops. Or cat as
> duck. Or turkey as ostrich. Or whatever.

Right. You feel the need for belligerence and everybody else is stupid.
The specific examples you just offered show how little you know about
these foods. They're each sufficiently different that these
substitutions would *only* fool someone who had never had them before.
Do lots of people who've never had ostrich before seek it out in
restaurants, not knowing anything about it?

Save your fingers for typing messages with content.

Pastorio

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:

> Nancy Young wrote:
> > "Bob (this one)" > wrote
> >
> >>Nancy Young wrote:
> >
> >>>I just googled and right away found this:
> >>>
> >>>http://www.foodsubs.com/Shelfish.html
> >>
> >>Well, that's generally an accurate site, but not this time.
> >
> > Bob, several people have said they've heard of the practice, and
> > now a site you agree is usually reliable says it, even including the
> > shark, and you still say it doesn't happen?
>
> We've all heard of things that didn't happen. The poodle being dried in
> a microwave, the hook on the car door handle...
>
> Whoever wrote that about shark being served as scallops has never
> handled and cooked shark. There's not the remotest possibility of
> confusing the two. Shark eats like fish. I've cooked literally thousands
> of pounds of it in my various operations. Not a chance they'd be confused.

I have to agree with Bob on this one...
While I suppose skate or ray could be substituted, unless the consumer
is totally ignorant there is no way in _hell_ shark would substitute for
scallops. The meat does not look or taste remotely similar and the
texture is DRASTICALLY different.

Personally, I love shark and have eaten a lot of it.

Not everything you read on the internet is gospel. ;-)

I've personally talked to professional fisherman on the gulf coast that
way stingray is used this way which is why they would not sell me one.

>
> > The fact is, substitutions are widely done in the fish world, not just
> > with scallops. Perhaps you wouldn't be fooled, but you can bet a lot
> > of people would be.
>
> I truly doubt it in the case of scallops. And I say that because I've
> handled probably 50 different kinds of fish, shellfish and mollusks over
> the years. Cooked, raw (where safe), pickled, preserved...
>
> I have yet to see anything that can be substituted for scallops
> convincingly. Or even remotely.

Bob, you can fool some of the people all of the time...... ;-)

>
> > I think I'd know a sea scallop but I wouldn't
> > swear to it, and bay scallops? Forget it, you could easily fool me.
> > I just don't eat much in the way of seafood.
>
> Then you're not likely to buy scallops and are no judge of them. But
> people who do won't be fooled by shark meat or punched out skate wings.
> They don't look the same or even close to scallops.
>
> > There was another big stink (no pun intended) in the news about
> > fish a few years back, redfish? ha! it's really (whatever) at redfish
> > prices. Etc. Happens all the time.
>
> Substituting one kind of fish for another is something I could do all
> day long and no one could tell except someone extremely knowledgeable.
> There are four or five textures of fin fish and that's all there is. If
> I served a flatfish sauteed in butter and dressed with parsley, I
> daresay not one in 10,000 could identify what kind it is. But if I
> served shark - any shark - next to a scallop, the difference is like
> beef and grapefruit. No relationship to each other. Texture, flavor,
> color, mouthfeel, smell, bite - all different from each other.
>
> >>In all my years of restaurant operations, I've never seen "scallops" made
> >>from skate wings. But I've heard about it. Maybe my fish guys knew me
> >>better than to try. Dunno...
> >
> > See, even you've heard about it, so it's not something we've snatched
> > out of thin air. It is done, it is true.
>
> Because we've heard of it doesn't mean it happens. Having heard of it is
> no more an indication of truth than having heard about dragons and
> ghosts and faces on Mars.
>
> I haven't said it's not true, I've said that in more than three decades
> of active involvement in all phases of professional foodservice, I've
> never seen it. In all my operations, I was the purchasing agent and
> executive chef and we served an awful lot of water critters. I never saw
> it. Not once.
>
> I might begin to believe it if someone whose knowledge I trusted said he
> or she had seen it firsthand. Until then... Nope. It's an unproven
> assertion. An urban legend until I see something that actually proves it.
>
> Pastorio
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Sally Swindells" > wrote in message
...
> Can anyone help - I have just attempted to eat a meal of skate wings
> which were as 'tough as old boots!'
>
> The fish was very fresh (collected from fisherman this morning as he
> sorted his catch). We used a new recipe which involved simmering for
> 20 minutes in water and a tiny bit of white wine vinegar and a little
> chopped onion and carrot. I wonder if it was this longer than usual
> cooking time that caused the problem. Usually I fry for 4-5 minutes on
> each side, or poach for about 12 minutes.
>
> They were completely inedible, and ended up being whizzed in the food
> processor with a portion of mashed potatoes (mine!) and made into fish
> cakes, which were actually quite nice.
>
> Do I avoid skate wings in future, or were they just overcooked?

Overcooked I'd say, also, I'd never poach them! I will grill them sometimes,
but by far my favourite is to fry them, but *in butter* with a little pepper
and a couple whole peeled cloves of garlic in the pan too. I can eat a plate
full of just those like that - delicious and always tender ',;~}~




Shaun aRe

In article > ,
Peter Huebner > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> >
> > How long did you cook it?
> >
> > Just curious! I've heard varying stories about stingray...
> >
>
> The usual - in other words until the protein was just coagulated right
> through. No longer, and at a bare simmer. Probably 10-12 minutes.
> It's been near enough to 10 years though, so don't hold me to it ;-)
>
> -P.

Thanks!

One of these days I want to go gigging in the bay for flounder and
stingray.

I'll wear boots with ankle guards. I've heard nasty stories about
stingray spines. :-(
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
"Bob (this one)" > wrote:


> Right. You feel the need for belligerence and everybody else is stupid.
> The specific examples you just offered show how little you know about
> these foods. They're each sufficiently different that these
> substitutions would *only* fool someone who had never had them before.
> Do lots of people who've never had ostrich before seek it out in
> restaurants, not knowing anything about it?
>
>
> Pastorio

Actually Bob, yes...
See, most of these "fancy" foods are ordered by diners that don't cook
at home. They only get to have this stuff at restaraunts. They really
have no clu' and I'd say they were not in the minority.

You'd better believe that if _I_ went someplace, I could recognize a
substitution (at least as far as scallops are concerned) and I'll report
it to to the local newspaper!

But, I have cooked and eaten Shark, Scallops, Skate, Ostrich, Emu, Deer,
Bear, Porcupine, Duck, squirrel, Rabbit.......

I think you get the idea. ;-)

I've found that it's far cheaper to experiment with new foods at home
and if I cook it myself, I have better control over the "experiment".

I will grant you tho' that it'd be difficult to distinguish between
Ostrich and a very fine, tender lean beef. Ostrich is fantastic. I've
purchased and cooked both ground and vacuum packed filet'.

Emu tastes like venison. (IMO) I've had so much of it I'm sick of it.
I've been using it to make jerky......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...

> Actually, it's not at all true. Very different textures for all of them.
> The meat of skate wings looks different than scallop meat and is more
> firm to the touch. And shark is a fish, nothing like scallop.

Uhhmm, they're both fish, and actually in the same family/class -
Chondrichtyes (sp?) (along with ray etc.)

I can't see skate being used as faux scallops either, texture-wise - when
cooked especially, should be a dead give away.







Shaun aRe

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...

> Shark flesh is fish-like because it's a fish.

I have always found shark meat, to be quite dark and really rather meaty
textured for fish, maybe somewhat akin to swordfish/marlin, or even some
tuna.

> It flakes unlike scallop
> adductor muscles (the part we eat). It's used for fish and chips in the
> U.K. and often served in restaurants here as steaks. We served them in
> several of my restaurants. No chance of confusing scallops with shark.

I have never once seen nor heard of shark meat being sold in UK chip shops
or even pre-packaged 'DIY' fish and ships. We almost invariably get very
white, very flaky types of fish and I've not once eaten shark that could be
made to pass for it. Also, shark meat tends to cost more here than most
typical chip shop white fish such as cod and haddock - it's seen as a bit of
an exotic by most, although it is much more readily available now than say
10 years ago!.


Shaun aRe