Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
believe indicate his prowess as a chef.

To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a
chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him to
work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie type
thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it doesn't
make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm no
expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if he's
correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish
should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it out,
and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health violations
or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think
he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate it.
this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
looking for some opinions on these matters.

Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

none wrote:

> And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
> more than four hours or it goes bad.

The safety and quality issues are separate. Four hours at chill temp is
not a safety issue, but he may expressing his personal opinion as to
quality.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Nothing he has said makes me think scam. Other chefs might disagree
with some of his judgments, but a scam makes me think he would benefit
from lying to your parents, and I don't see that that's the case.


I am not working as a professional chef. I do use frozen spinach when I
make spanakopita at home. I see no difference in taste, or, if I did,
it wouldn't be great enough to make up for the huge difference in labor.
Fresh spinach has to be cleaned and recleaned. Frozen you just thaw,
squeeze out excess moisture and use.


Fish can be grilled. It does dry it out a bit which is why one normally
grills oily fishes like salmon. This is a matter of personal taste.


As for storing thawed fish, are you sure you're all talking about the
same thing, that he knows you mean thawing and storing in the
refrigerator? I ask because there are people who would thaw at room
temp, then refrigerate or thaw and marinate at room temp. He might be
thinking that's what your parents are talking about, and if that's it,
he's correct that the fish should be in the fridge.


--Lia

> asks:
>
>My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
>they're being scammed
>
>Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie type
>thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
>This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it doesn't
>make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
>fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

It's "spinach".

The chef is correct... unless you grow your own and pick it that day frozen
spinach is indeed fresher than any from the produce market, and unless it's to
be eaten uncooked (salad) then in a cooked dish frozen is *always* better.

Your other two questions are just too fishy... I smell troll.

>Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm no
>expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if he's
>correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish
>should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
>grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
>
>And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
>more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it out,
>and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
>restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health violations
>or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think
>he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
>overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
>
>If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate it.

---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

>From: "none"

>Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
>they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
>right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
>believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
>
>To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
>had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
>start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a
>chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him to
>work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.
>
>Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie type
>thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
>This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it doesn't
>make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
>fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.
>
>Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm no
>expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if he's
>correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish
>should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
>grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
>
>And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
>more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it out,
>and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
>restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health violations
>or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think
>he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
>overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
>
>If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate it.
>this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
>guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
>car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
>looking for some opinions on these matters.
>
>Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

There must have been a reason that your parents hired this particular "chef".
Do you know what that reason is?

As far as the spinach, I agree with your parent's "chef". Spanikopita isn't
necessarily a high end dish, and using fresh spinach will be VERY spendy. If it
were me, I'd purchase the highest quality frozen spinach, use really great feta
cheese, good quality onions, filo and real butter.

Grilled fish is great only if using the freshest fish possible, not frozen -
AND - that is the specialty of the house, with a huge turnover. I again agree
with your parent's chef. I'd rather dine on previously frozen fish if pan
sautee'd combined with great ingredients and/or finished off in the oven. It
also allows for some nice crumbing options, including herbs. YUM, I'm thinking
feta cheese crumbed halibut with a reduction of tomatoes with Kalamatas here.

Poaching is not as much a technique in a restaurant, but rather a specific
preparation for a dish. I'm not getting the steamed thing at all, unless he's
talking about en papillote which would be cuisine appropriate.

Are you sure he didn't also include "fried"? I know some superior Greek seafood
dishes that are fried and I can't imagine not having them available.

I also agree with him regarding the marinade thing. Too many natural juices are
lost from previously frozen fish - and the result will come out dry, even if
bathed in wet ingredients for hours and then cooked wet. It's another thing
altogether to marinate fresh seafood overnight but that doesn't sound like the
problem here.

Sounds to me like this "chef" knows his business and if he is quirky, big deal.
I don't know a "chef" that isn't.

Ellen

"none" > wrote in message
news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...
>
> And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
> more than four hours or it goes bad.

I think that I would be more concerned about using frozen fish than using
frozen spinach. Spinach is a component in a rather complex dish. The fish
IS the dish. I would save money on the spinach and buy fresh fish.

none wrote:

> Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
> right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
> believe indicate his prowess as a chef.

Disregarding your cooking questions, which others have already
addressed, your entire posting is practically dripping with eagerness
to find fault with this guy. There seems to be an unstated set of facts
here, like maybe you're feeling alienation of affection from your
parents. If that's the case, you gotta get rid of the guy, whether
or not he's a good chef. I'd suggest getting real friendly with him,
and seeing if you can get him involved with the Church of
Scientology. I'm not suggesting YOU get involved -- I'm
suggesting you get this other guy involved. You can pretend
to be a Scientologist, if that helps. If you go down to your
local Dianetics centre, and explain the whole plan, they'll be
delighted to help you in any way that they can.

That'll fix this guy. You might screw up his whole life.
Hope this helps! :-)

"none" > wrote in message
news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...
> Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
> right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
> believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
>
> To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
> had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
> start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a
> chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him to
> work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.
>
> Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie
type
> thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
> This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it
doesn't
> make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
> fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

I've made it both ways. You have to cook it first anyway. I've never
tasted the slightest difference. There are plenty of fresh herbs in the
dish to more than make up for any loss in spinach flavor.

> Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm
no
> expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if he's
> correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
fish
> should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
> grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

Purely a matter of taste. Grilled fish is tricky to do right but it is
absolutely divine. The chef is probably of the mind that grilling crowds
out the natural flavor of the fish. To a degree it does. Again, doing it
right is hard. And not just any fish can be grilled.

> And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
> more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it
out,
> and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
> restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health
violations
> or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I
think
> he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

Fish rots very fast. The Japanese would probably never eat fish that has
sat at room temperature for 4 or more hours. Some taste buds pick up on the
bad taste very quickly. I think the chef has a delicate palate. As one
would expect a chef to have.


> If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate
it.
> this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
> guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
> car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
> looking for some opinions on these matters.

Sounds like he is opinionated - just like any good chef. I tend to share
his beliefs for the most part.

Paul

none > wrote:

> Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie type
> thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
> This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it doesn't
> make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
> fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.

Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with fresh spinach
and a batch with frozen, then do a blind taste test.

> Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm no
> expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if he's
> correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all fish
> should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
> grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.

Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique preferences.

> And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed for
> more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it out,
> and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the old
> restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health violations
> or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I think
> he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?

I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently held fish for a day
or two. We never used frozen fish (except for shrimp and lobster tails)
and nothing bad happened to any of it.

> If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate it.
> this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
> guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
> car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
> looking for some opinions on these matters.

Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by its customers.

>Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
>they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
>right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
>believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
>
>To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
>had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
>start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of a
>chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him to
>work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.

SNIP


>If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate it.
>this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
>guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
>car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
>looking for some opinions on these matters.
>
>Thanks so very much in advance for your help.

I'm sure your parents checked his references.

Really dude get real.

I'm a programmer. My folks were concerned, and I wanted to see if it was
justified.

I'm 29, married, and have my own life thanks...

Thanks everyone for your responses. I appreciate them very much...

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> none wrote:
>
> > Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> > they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
> > right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
> > believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
>
> Disregarding your cooking questions, which others have already
> addressed, your entire posting is practically dripping with eagerness
> to find fault with this guy. There seems to be an unstated set of facts
> here, like maybe you're feeling alienation of affection from your
> parents. If that's the case, you gotta get rid of the guy, whether
> or not he's a good chef. I'd suggest getting real friendly with him,
> and seeing if you can get him involved with the Church of
> Scientology. I'm not suggesting YOU get involved -- I'm
> suggesting you get this other guy involved. You can pretend
> to be a Scientologist, if that helps. If you go down to your
> local Dianetics centre, and explain the whole plan, they'll be
> delighted to help you in any way that they can.
>
> That'll fix this guy. You might screw up his whole life.
> Hope this helps! :-)
>
>
>

Thanks stan - you were most insightful...

I was just trying to find if he was full of it. I appreciate all the honest
responses. Thanks all (except the person who feels I'm having seperation
anxiety - that's just odd).




> wrote in message ...
> none > wrote:
>
> > Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie
type
> > thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer
flavour.
> > This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it
doesn't
> > make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel
that
> > fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.
>
> Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with fresh spinach
> and a batch with frozen, then do a blind taste test.
>
> > Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled.
I'm no
> > expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if
he's
> > correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
fish
> > should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
> > grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
>
> Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique preferences.
>
> > And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed
for
> > more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it
out,
> > and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the
old
> > restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health
violations
> > or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I
think
> > he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> > overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
>
> I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently held fish for a day
> or two. We never used frozen fish (except for shrimp and lobster tails)
> and nothing bad happened to any of it.
>
> > If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate
it.
> > this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride.
I
> > guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with
your
> > car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
> > looking for some opinions on these matters.
>
> Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by its customers.
>

Of course - when possible they get fresh fish - but sometimes you have to
make due with frozen...

I agree - fresh salmon is just awesome. After freezing it's not quite so
nice...



"Vox Humana" > wrote in message
...
>
> "none" > wrote in message
> news:kJnEc.943987$oR5.736937@pd7tw3no...
> >
> > And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed
for
> > more than four hours or it goes bad.
>
> I think that I would be more concerned about using frozen fish than using
> frozen spinach. Spinach is a component in a rather complex dish. The
fish
> IS the dish. I would save money on the spinach and buy fresh fish.
>
>

They did the best they could; he seemed like he knew what he was talking
about. Sometimes the best thing to do is just seem him in action. He
worked in several hotels as a chef apparantly.

He also went through the kitchen and threw out every cutting board - stated
the bacteria was the problem... Funny - I thought you kill the bacteria
when you run the cutting board through the sanitizer...

Anyway, we just found him to be quirky, and wanted to find other opinions is
all... Thanks...


"DJS0302" > wrote in message
...
> >Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> >they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
> >right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
> >believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
> >
> >To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
> >had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
> >start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of
a
> >chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him
to
> >work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.
>
> SNIP
>
>
> >If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate
it.
> >this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
> >guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
> >car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
> >looking for some opinions on these matters.
> >
> >Thanks so very much in advance for your help.
>
> I'm sure your parents checked his references.
>

"none" > wrote in message
news:A4CEc.951301$oR5.564701@pd7tw3no...
> Of course - when possible they get fresh fish - but sometimes you have to
> make due with frozen...
>
> I agree - fresh salmon is just awesome. After freezing it's not quite so
> nice...

That's a good reason to only server fresh fish. With the advent of the
computer and good printers, you can easily change the menu to reflect what
is available in the market.

Thanks, your idea in the oven sounds kinda yummy actually...

Yeah, pan-fried was on his list too sorry... He said anything but grilled,
period.

Now I'm no expert, but when I go fishing for fresh trout, my favourite way
to cook it is straight over the fire in my fish basket - mmmmm...

Thanks for your insight. I'm glad I just didn't get a bunch of ppl agreeing
with me - that's boring

"SportKite1" > wrote in message
...
> >From: "none"
>
> >Hi. My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> >they're being scammed and I hope someone around here can point me in the
> >right direction. This chef has made a few strange comments that I don't
> >believe indicate his prowess as a chef.
> >
> >To give some insight, my folks are about to open a Greek Restaurant (they
> >had one before, but closed down to move to a new location and get a fresh
> >start). Their menu is established, but they hope to gain the benefit of
a
> >chef to help trim the rough edges on their menu design. They hired him
to
> >work on prep and menu design, not to be a line cook.
> >
> >Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie
type
> >thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
> >This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it
doesn't
> >make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
> >fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.
> >
> >Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm
no
> >expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if
he's
> >correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
fish
> >should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
> >grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
> >
> >And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed
for
> >more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it
out,
> >and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the
old
> >restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health
violations
> >or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I
think
> >he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> >overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
> >
> >If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate
it.
> >this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride. I
> >guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with your
> >car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm just
> >looking for some opinions on these matters.
> >
> >Thanks so very much in advance for your help.
>
> There must have been a reason that your parents hired this particular
"chef".
> Do you know what that reason is?
>
> As far as the spinach, I agree with your parent's "chef". Spanikopita
isn't
> necessarily a high end dish, and using fresh spinach will be VERY spendy.
If it
> were me, I'd purchase the highest quality frozen spinach, use really great
feta
> cheese, good quality onions, filo and real butter.
>
> Grilled fish is great only if using the freshest fish possible, not
frozen -
> AND - that is the specialty of the house, with a huge turnover. I again
agree
> with your parent's chef. I'd rather dine on previously frozen fish if pan
> sautee'd combined with great ingredients and/or finished off in the oven.
It
> also allows for some nice crumbing options, including herbs. YUM, I'm
thinking
> feta cheese crumbed halibut with a reduction of tomatoes with Kalamatas
here.
>
> Poaching is not as much a technique in a restaurant, but rather a specific
> preparation for a dish. I'm not getting the steamed thing at all, unless
he's
> talking about en papillote which would be cuisine appropriate.
>
> Are you sure he didn't also include "fried"? I know some superior Greek
seafood
> dishes that are fried and I can't imagine not having them available.
>
> I also agree with him regarding the marinade thing. Too many natural
juices are
> lost from previously frozen fish - and the result will come out dry, even
if
> bathed in wet ingredients for hours and then cooked wet. It's another
thing
> altogether to marinate fresh seafood overnight but that doesn't sound like
the
> problem here.
>
> Sounds to me like this "chef" knows his business and if he is quirky, big
deal.
> I don't know a "chef" that isn't.
>
> Ellen
>
>

Yay. I made aspelling mistake.

My other two questions sounded "fishy"? I wasn't trying to be a troll...
If I was trying to be a troll, I'd use words to deliberately infuriate
ppl... These were legit questions I thought.

Anyway, I appreciate your insight and forwarded it on. Thanks very much...



"PENMART01" > wrote in message
...
> > asks:
> >
> >My folks have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
> >they're being scammed
> >
> >Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich pie
type
> >thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer flavour.
> >This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it
doesn't
> >make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel that
> >fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.
>
> It's "spinach".
>
> The chef is correct... unless you grow your own and pick it that day
frozen
> spinach is indeed fresher than any from the produce market, and unless
it's to
> be eaten uncooked (salad) then in a cooked dish frozen is *always* better.
>
> Your other two questions are just too fishy... I smell troll.
>
> >Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled. I'm
no
> >expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if
he's
> >correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
fish
> >should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite like
> >grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
> >
> >And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed
for
> >more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw it
out,
> >and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the
old
> >restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health
violations
> >or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I
think
> >he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> >overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
> >
> >If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really appreciate
it.
>
> ---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
> ---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
> *********
> "Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
> Sheldon
> ````````````

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:50:06 GMT, "none" > wrote:

>They did the best they could; he seemed like he knew what he was talking
>about. Sometimes the best thing to do is just seem him in action. He
>worked in several hotels as a chef apparantly.
>
>He also went through the kitchen and threw out every cutting board - stated
>the bacteria was the problem... Funny - I thought you kill the bacteria
>when you run the cutting board through the sanitizer...

Cutting board choice is a matter of personal preference and there is a
wide range that meets health code. Your chef may prefer a different
brand or material choice or, if they came over from the old restaurant,
thought they were too old.

Quirky?? LOL I have rarely met a chef that wasn't. But to address some of
the things brought up.....

The expense of fresh compared to frozen spinach would lead me to use fresh
spinach only for raw items like salads. The loss in volume and the bruising
make using fresh spinach for all items would make for high waste ratio.
Spinach and peas are a couple of the few frozen veg products that fly.

If he can't see grilling fish perhaps he is just weak on his grilling (lol)
Seriously, baking, steaming, and poaching are about the only other
heart-healthy methods of preparing fish. This is definitely a weak area.
Tell him grilled fish is a must... period! Grilling is a station you really
need experience with to master moist, flavorful output. Between temp
control, the loss of juices (unless you use an overhead broiler, and the
effects of carry-over cooking, it is not a simple skill to master. But any
"chef" should feel no challenge in producing consistently near-perfect
results from a gas-fired grill.

As far as food safety and food-borne illnesses.. most cases of food-borne
illness aren't even reported or traced to meals. Food "poisoning" is easy
to figure.. abdominal pain, vomiting, etc. But what about that "flu bug
that almost" got you??? Not all food-borne pathogens lead to the dramatic
symptoms we call "food poisoning". One is never too clean when it comes to
food safety management. The guy might have some mental trip about cutting
boards, but it probably didn't hurt. LOL.. if he has any recent formal
training he knows that holding proteins under refrigeration isn't a problem
below 40 degrees. That is not at all letting it "sit out" more than 4
hours. Besides, HACCP would say no longer than 2 hours accumulated in the
food temp dangerzone (between 40 and 140) In commercial operations frozen
foods are thawed under refrigeration or under cold water only. 24 hr
marinating is common, especially for large pieces.

Bottom line.. the proof is in the pudding... tell him to work within the
established standard you have for a week before changes are implemented and
see how he does. The mark of a true chef is the ability to adapt to use
whatever food products and equipment are at hand. He can ramble on about
how to better do things while he proves he can work with anything.

But bear in mind, food culture is so vast, even a master chef won't know
every cuisine. When I began my culinary training I was always impressed how
modest some of the most accomplished chefs were. I later understood why.
LOL

Good luck.

"none" > wrote in message
news:e3CEc.951299$oR5.444172@pd7tw3no...
> Thanks stan - you were most insightful...
>
> I was just trying to find if he was full of it. I appreciate all the
honest
> responses. Thanks all (except the person who feels I'm having seperation
> anxiety - that's just odd).
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
...
> > none > wrote:
> >
> > > Anyway, one staple in Greek cuisine is Spanakopita. it's a spinich
pie
> type
> > > thing. My folks insist they use only fresh spinich for a richer
> flavour.
> > > This individual argued that you should not waste your money, and it
> doesn't
> > > make a difference if you use frozen spinich. Is he correct? I feel
> that
> > > fresh vegetables have more flavour than frozen.
> >
> > Let your taste buds decide for you. Make a batch with fresh spinach
> > and a batch with frozen, then do a blind taste test.
> >
> > > Furthermore, this "chef" believes that fish should never be grilled.
> I'm no
> > > expert in fine dining, so I hope someone around here could tell me if
> he's
> > > correct? I've had grilled Marlin before and loved it. He insists all
> fish
> > > should only be pan fried, steamed, or poached. Personally I quite
like
> > > grilled Salmon. He insists it comes out too dry.
> >
> > Where food is concerned, everyone has his or her unique preferences.
> >
> > > And the last thing this guy said was frozen fish should not sit thawed
> for
> > > more than four hours or it goes bad. My folks take the Salmon, thaw
it
> out,
> > > and marinade it for a day in the fridge and then serve it. Now in the
> old
> > > restaurant, they operated for five years without any major health
> violations
> > > or incidents. This might be a fallacious appeal to perpetuitiy, but I
> think
> > > he's just plain wrong. I mean, you can have chicken sit in the fridge
> > > overnight in marinade, cannot the same hold true for fish?
> >
> > I used to work in a seafood restaurant. We frequently held fish for a
day
> > or two. We never used frozen fish (except for shrimp and lobster tails)
> > and nothing bad happened to any of it.
> >
> > > If someone could answer me these three questions, I'd really
appreciate
> it.
> > > this guy's a goof, and I think he's going to take my folks for a ride.
> I
> > > guess in a way it's like your mechanic telling you what's wrong with
> your
> > > car - you believe him until you get a second opinion. I guess I'm
just
> > > looking for some opinions on these matters.
> >
> > Bottom line is how well the restaurant is received by its customers.
> >
>
>

>From: "zuuum"

>If he can't see grilling fish perhaps he is just weak on his grilling (lol)
>Seriously, baking, steaming, and poaching are about the only other
>heart-healthy methods of preparing fish. This is definitely a weak area.
>Tell him grilled fish is a must... period! Grilling is a station you really
>need experience with to master moist, flavorful output. Between temp
>control, the loss of juices (unless you use an overhead broiler, and the
>effects of carry-over cooking, it is not a simple skill to master. But any
>"chef" should feel no challenge in producing consistently near-perfect
>results from a gas-fired grill.

I think the key information was that the restaurant owners are intending to use
frozen fish. I know restaurants that have grilled frozen fish with not great
results.

But I concur with grilling certain types of fish - in particular firm fleshed
varieties. Wonderful. But using frozen fish, I'm still inclined to side with
the "chef" that to preserve the natural juices, pan-frying, baked or en
papillote are a better way to go - particularly if this is a Greek Restaurant.

Ellen

>have hired a chef to help out with their menu, and I think
>they're being scammed

What's this about "scammed"? Why criminalize policy differences?

Neil

none wrote:

> He also went through the kitchen and threw out every cutting board

I'm having a problem with this one. Use your own cutting boards but
don't think about throwing out my property. Since when do employees
get to decide what you can keep or not?

nancy

Good point, SportKite. I never read the beginnings of this thread and
didn't even know we were strictly talking about frozen fish in a "Greek
Restaurant" It is true that freezing food changes it's texture and fish, in
particular, can lose moisture when frozen as well as fall apart on a grill.
Frozen mahimahi does okay, but a snapper or bass is a totally different
product, especially if it isn't fresh catch.

An en papillote dish, using a flakey fish sounds like an excellent
suggestion to me. But I don't have enough familiararity with Greek cuisine
to judge what authentic dishes could incorporate it. Stil, there is always
room for "creative adjustments". ":^)

"SportKite1" > wrote in message
...

> I think the key information was that the restaurant owners are intending
to use
> frozen fish. I know restaurants that have grilled frozen fish with not
great
> results.
>
> But I concur with grilling certain types of fish - in particular firm
fleshed
> varieties. Wonderful. But using frozen fish, I'm still inclined to side
with
> the "chef" that to preserve the natural juices, pan-frying, baked or en
> papillote are a better way to go - particularly if this is a Greek
Restaurant.
>
> Ellen
>
>

Nancy Young wrote:
> I'm having a problem with this one. Use your own cutting boards but
> don't think about throwing out my property. Since when do employees
> get to decide what you can keep or not?

That would depend on their position and level of authority.

--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

Cheap long distance calling using Onesuite (http://www.onesuite.com).
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Ben wrote:
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
> > I'm having a problem with this one. Use your own cutting boards but
> > don't think about throwing out my property. Since when do employees
> > get to decide what you can keep or not?
>
> That would depend on their position and level of authority.

Well, of course, I didn't mean you had to hold a shareholders meeting
to get permission to throw out some old computers. Obviously
someone closer to it will just say throw them out. But I wouldn't
sign on to work for someone and throw out their personal possessions.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
: Ben wrote:
: >
: > Nancy Young wrote:
: > > I'm having a problem with this one. Use your own cutting
boards but
: > > don't think about throwing out my property. Since when do
employees
: > > get to decide what you can keep or not?
: >
: > That would depend on their position and level of authority.
:
: Well, of course, I didn't mean you had to hold a shareholders
meeting
: to get permission to throw out some old computers. Obviously
: someone closer to it will just say throw them out. But I
wouldn't
: sign on to work for someone and throw out their personal
possessions.
:
: nancy
===============

Yep. I was thinking the exact thing. Shoot, I'd be pretty upset
if a member of my family threw out something of mine - much less
some yahoo hired to cook for me... We have a rule in this house,
"If its not yours - DON'T TOUCH IT" (without permission, that
is). Simple concept but seemingly difficult for many to
comprehend. <snort>--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

"none" > wrote in message
news:A4CEc.951301$oR5.564701@pd7tw3no...
: Of course - when possible they get fresh fish - but sometimes
you have to
: make due with frozen...
:
: I agree - fresh salmon is just awesome. After freezing it's
not quite so
: nice...
:
===========

Perhaps not 'as' nice but still quite delicious. We enjoy
placing the salmon in foil with butter, fresh lemon (or lime)
juice and brown sugar. Absolutely wonderful!!!
--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>

> We enjoy placing the salmon in foil with butter, fresh lemon (or lime) juice
and >brown sugar.
>
>Cyndi

Cooking fish in aluminum (reactive) especially with acetics (lemon) is a great
way to pollute the flavor of fish. Iodine is especially reactive with
aluminum, all sea food is high in iodine and salmon is one of the leading food
sources of iodine. You are another one with your taste in your ass, as well as
your brain.


---= BOYCOTT FRANCE (belgium) GERMANY--SPAIN =---
---= Move UNITED NATIONS To Paris =---
*********
"Life would be devoid of all meaning were it without tribulation."
Sheldon
````````````

The Hacketts wrote:
> Yep. I was thinking the exact thing. Shoot, I'd be pretty upset
> if a member of my family threw out something of mine - much less
> some yahoo hired to cook for me... We have a rule in this house,

Minor correction. He is a Chef and not a cook (regardless of whether he is a
kook) and is not doing any cooking but helping with their menu from the sounds
of it.

--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

Cheap long distance calling using Onesuite (http://www.onesuite.com).
2.5 cents/min anywhere in the U.S., to Canada or the U.K. No monthly or
connection fees! Use promotional code 038664643 for 20 free minutes.

"Ben" > wrote in message
...
: The Hacketts wrote:
: > Yep. I was thinking the exact thing. Shoot, I'd be pretty
upset
: > if a member of my family threw out something of mine - much
less
: > some yahoo hired to cook for me... We have a rule in this
house,
:
: Minor correction. He is a Chef and not a cook (regardless of
whether he is a
: kook) and is not doing any cooking but helping with their menu
from the sounds
: of it.
:
: -==========

Heck - that's even worse!! The fact that he's in a more...
ummm... administrative position - he *definitely* should not be
disposing of property! Personally, I'd make the punk reimburse
and/or replace any and ALL objects. <shaking head>

--
Cyndi
<Remove a "b" to reply>--

>From: "The Hacketts"

>Heck - that's even worse!! The fact that he's in a more...
>ummm... administrative position - he *definitely* should not be
>disposing of property! Personally, I'd make the punk reimburse
>and/or replace any and ALL objects. <shaking head>

The Health Inspector regularly inspects our cutting boards and tells us to toss
them when he feels they've worn out their welcome. A chef is certified to do
similarly.

Ellen