Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
in Idaho:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34

It's only going to get worse from here!

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
> in Idaho:
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>
> It's only going to get worse from here!


Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:

"Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
Two suspected cases tested negative.

Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
from the victims who got autopsies."

"Suspected" in the media is like "alleged", like alleged murderer, or
alleged rapist. They're just covering their asses.

Bad beef? Maybe these people were cannibals?

"pennyaline" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>> in Idaho:
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>>
>> It's only going to get worse from here!
>
>
> Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
>
> "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
> positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
> tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
> sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
> Two suspected cases tested negative.
>
> Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
> calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
> from the victims who got autopsies."

Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the "suspected"
cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal sterlization methods, so
all the tools and equipment used during an autopsy have to be discarded.
Obviously this makes pathologists hesistant to perform autopsies, so when
presented with someone who might possibly have CJD, they're more likely to
just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate further.

"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
> in Idaho:
>
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>
> It's only going to get worse from here!

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 17:23:10 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>in Idaho:
>
>http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>
>It's only going to get worse from here!

"AH...Mr Thorson with his knickers in a knot, twisting them up, ever
tighter in newsgroups all over Usenet.

What is going to get worse? Your imagination? The newspaper article
you cite has a lot of errors in it. Why not get the details before you
climb up on a chair shrieking & pulling your skirt over your head.

http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.go...1684&mid=10363

"The Idaho Department of Health and Welfare and South Central District
Health are investigating four possible cases of Creutzfeldt-Jakob
Disease (CJD) in southcentral Idaho. CJD is a degenerative brain
disease caused by malformed proteins, called prions. All four of the
possible cases are women ages 60 years or older who have died.

An autopsy and testing of brain tissue is the only method to diagnose
CJD. Of the four victims in south-central Idaho, two have received
autopsies. Test results from one of the two show the person died from
a prion disease. Test results from the other autopsied person are
pending. Originally, the Department and South Central District Health
were investigating a fifth possible case, but autopsy results showed
no prion disease in that person.

Over the last 20 years, Idaho has experienced an average of 1.2 deaths
a year due to CJD. The Office of Epidemiology and Food Protection has
been working with South Central District Health, healthcare providers
and families to determine if any common links existed between the
women. "


Then go read more details.
http://www.healthandwelfare.idaho.go...1683&mid=11458

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 11:04:30 -0700, pennyaline
> wrote:

>Mark Thorson wrote:
>> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>> in Idaho:
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>>
>> It's only going to get worse from here!
>
>
>Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
>
>"Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
>positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
>tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
>sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
>Two suspected cases tested negative.
>
>Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
>calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
>from the victims who got autopsies."


Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.

Boron

AL wrote:
> Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the "suspected"
> cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal sterlization methods, so
> all the tools and equipment used during an autopsy have to be discarded.
> Obviously this makes pathologists hesistant to perform autopsies, so when
> presented with someone who might possibly have CJD, they're more likely to
> just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate further.
>

Do you have the barest shred of proof that autopsies are skipped - other
wise it's nonsense and pure speculation on your part! So they use
abnormal sterilization methods and perform the autopsy anyway.

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:

>Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the "suspected"
>cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal sterlization methods, so
>all the tools and equipment used during an autopsy have to be discarded.
>Obviously this makes pathologists hesistant to perform autopsies, so when
>presented with someone who might possibly have CJD, they're more likely to
>just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate further.

Nonsense.

Boron











>
>"Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
...
>> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>> in Idaho:
>>
>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>>
>> It's only going to get worse from here!
>

AL wrote:

> "Suspected" in the media is like "alleged", like alleged murderer, or
> alleged rapist. They're just covering their asses.
>
Actually, I've personally known cases of "suspected" that turned out to
be just that. Suspected, but later disproven after brain biopsy. Because
of the seriousness of the risks of transfer (surgical instruments, for
example, have to be treated totally differently afterwards) one has to
assume the patient has it until proven otherwise.
Goomba

JohnHancock wrote:
> AL wrote:
>
>> Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the
>> "suspected" cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal
>> sterlization methods, so all the tools and equipment used during an
>> autopsy have to be discarded. Obviously this makes pathologists
>> hesistant to perform autopsies, so when presented with someone who
>> might possibly have CJD, they're more likely to just skip the autopsy
>> rather than to investigate further.
>>
>
> Do you have the barest shred of proof that autopsies are skipped - other
> wise it's nonsense and pure speculation on your part! So they use
> abnormal sterilization methods and perform the autopsy anyway.


How about the article linked to in the original post? Did you read it?

Best regards,
Bob

Have a look at this:

http://www.rense.com/general48/cjdd.htm

The article I was referring to when I said "oh, that reminds me of another
article I read" talked about how an autoclave (a sterlization device kind of
like a pressure cooker) was not effective at killing prions. I can't find
that article right now, but read this in the meantime:

http://www.infectioncontroltoday.com.../3a1feat4.html



"JohnHancock" > wrote in message
news:So9bf.3226$zu6.1529@fed1read04...
> AL wrote:
>> Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the "suspected"
>> cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal sterlization methods,
>> so all the tools and equipment used during an autopsy have to be
>> discarded. Obviously this makes pathologists hesistant to perform
>> autopsies, so when presented with someone who might possibly have CJD,
>> they're more likely to just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate
>> further.
>>
>
> Do you have the barest shred of proof that autopsies are skipped - other
> wise it's nonsense and pure speculation on your part! So they use abnormal
> sterilization methods and perform the autopsy anyway.

Refer to my previous post.

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>
> Nonsense.
>
> Boron
>

Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>
> >Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the
> >"suspected" cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal
> >sterlization methods, so all the tools and equipment used
> >during an autopsy have to be discarded. Obviously this makes
> >pathologists hesistant to perform autopsies, so when presented
> >with someone who might possibly have CJD, they're more likely
> >to just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate further.
>
> Nonsense.

Quoting from _Scientific_American_ (August 1990, p. 24-26)
describing a major outbreak of CJD in the former Czechoslovakia
associated with sheep:

"Gajdusek suggests that BSE [bovine spongiform encephalitis]
and Orava kuru [the outbreak in Czechoslovakia] -- as well
as the rapid spread of scrapie in the U.S. -- indicate that
a worldwide epidemic of 'kuru virus' started during the
1970's. 'We have a major problem in human disease,' cautions
Gajdusek, who won a Nobel prize in 1976 for establishing that
kuru can be transmitted to chimpanzees."

And later in the same article:

"The nature of the causal agent is bitterly controversial.
The agent certainly has extraordinary properties: it elicits
no immune response and is resistant to treatments that kill
most other infectious agents. Brown has four times repeated
an experiment apparently showing that scrapie survives --
just barely -- a temperature of 360 degrees Celsius [680 F],
hot enough to break down amino acids and the base pairs that
make up RNA and DNA. 'That's rather distressing,' he says."

Here's a link to the text of the original article:

http://www.mad-cow.org/~tom/czech.html

On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:07:27 -0600, "AL" > wrote:

>Refer to my previous post.
>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>>
>> Nonsense.
>>
>> Boron
>>
>
That was nonsense, too. If you haven't the wits to know that rense.com
is trash, then you're hopeless. I'd trust the National Enquirer
quoting someone from Survivor first.

The other article made no mention whatsoever of autopsies being
avoided due to possible instrument contamination. There are protocols
established and they are followed.

So..back to where I came in...nonsense.

Boron

pennyaline wrote:
> Mark Thorson wrote:
> > Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
> > in Idaho:
> >
> > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
> >
> > It's only going to get worse from here!
>
>
> Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
>
> "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
> positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
> tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
> sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
> Two suspected cases tested negative.
>
> Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
> calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
> from the victims who got autopsies."

Another point. It may not necessarily be related to consuming beef.
Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer/elk equivalent of mad cow disease
(cattle) and scrapie (sheep). This could be related to consuming
venison and elk meat.

SD

On Sat, 05 Nov 2005 22:25:26 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>>
>> >Oh, that reminds me of another article I read. Prions, the
>> >"suspected" cause of mad cow disease, aren't killed by normal
>> >sterlization methods, so all the tools and equipment used
>> >during an autopsy have to be discarded. Obviously this makes
>> >pathologists hesistant to perform autopsies, so when presented
>> >with someone who might possibly have CJD, they're more likely
>> >to just skip the autopsy rather than to investigate further.
>>
>> Nonsense.
>
>Quoting from _Scientific_American_ (August 1990, p. 24-26)
>describing a major outbreak of CJD in the former Czechoslovakia
>associated with sheep:
>
>"Gajdusek suggests that BSE [bovine spongiform encephalitis]
>and Orava kuru [the outbreak in Czechoslovakia] -- as well
>as the rapid spread of scrapie in the U.S. -- indicate that
>a worldwide epidemic of 'kuru virus' started during the
>1970's. 'We have a major problem in human disease,' cautions
>Gajdusek, who won a Nobel prize in 1976 for establishing that
>kuru can be transmitted to chimpanzees."
>
>And later in the same article:
>
>"The nature of the causal agent is bitterly controversial.
>The agent certainly has extraordinary properties: it elicits
>no immune response and is resistant to treatments that kill
>most other infectious agents. Brown has four times repeated
>an experiment apparently showing that scrapie survives --
>just barely -- a temperature of 360 degrees Celsius [680 F],
>hot enough to break down amino acids and the base pairs that
>make up RNA and DNA. 'That's rather distressing,' he says."

The article is 15 years old. We know a lot more about prion diseases
now.

Oh...and the article makes no mention of autopsies being skipped,
either.

Boron

"SD" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> deer/elk

Deer/elk?

Charlie

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 04:02:00 GMT, "Charles Gifford"
> wrote:

>
>"SD" > wrote in message
roups.com...
>>
>> deer/elk
>
>Deer/elk?
>
>Charlie
>

Deer and elk can be affected by Chronic Wasting Disease. Not all
states have shown evidence, though.
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.map

This page will give you details:
http://www.cwd-info.org/index.php/fuseaction/about.main

"Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) is a transmissible neurological disease
of deer and elk that produces small lesions in brains of infected
animals. It is characterized by loss of body condition, behavioral
abnormalities and death. CWD is classified as a transmissible
spongiform encephalopathy (TSE), and is similar to mad cow disease in
cattle and scrapie in sheep.

Infectious agents of CWD are neither bacteria nor viruses, but are
hypothesized to be prions. Prions are infectious proteins without
associated nucleic acids.

Although CWD is a contagious fatal disease among deer and elk,
research suggests that humans, cattle and other domestic livestock are
resistant to natural transmission. While the possibility of human
infection remains a concern, it is important to note there have been
no verified cases of humans contracting CWD.

CWD can reduce the growth and size of wild deer and elk populations in
areas where the prevalence is high, and is of increasing concern for
wildlife managers across North America. The disease was long thought
to be limited in the wild to a relatively small endemic area in
northeastern Colorado, southeastern Wyoming and southwestern Nebraska,
but has recently been found in several new areas across the North
American continent. The disease also has been diagnosed in commercial
game farms in several states and provinces."

"Boron Elgar" > wrote
>
>
> Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.
>
> Boron

But my dear Boron, he is also one of the most consistently entertaining and
THE most effective of our mind expanding contributors. I've been here for a
long time and I think that Mark has been here even longer. Over that time I
have never seen anyone start an interesting thread better than him. He adds
validity and erases timidity to many a paranoid, including me.

Mark Thorson is a master of his art.

Charlie, a simple fan

The purpose of me citing the second article was to lend credence to the
first article (the one from Rense). The second article stated that prions
could not be destroyed by sterlization.

The following article states that autopsy frequencies have dropped and so
CJD deaths are being missed. This also lends credence to the Rense article.

http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?Stor...1-102924-4786r



"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 16:07:27 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>
>>Refer to my previous post.
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 5 Nov 2005 14:57:53 -0600, "AL" > wrote:
>>>
>>> Nonsense.
>>>
>>> Boron
>>>
>>
> That was nonsense, too. If you haven't the wits to know that rense.com
> is trash, then you're hopeless. I'd trust the National Enquirer
> quoting someone from Survivor first.
>
> The other article made no mention whatsoever of autopsies being
> avoided due to possible instrument contamination. There are protocols
> established and they are followed.
>
> So..back to where I came in...nonsense.
>
> Boron

Charles Gifford wrote:
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote
>
>>
>>Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.
>>
>>Boron
>
>
> But my dear Boron, he is also one of the most consistently entertaining and
> THE most effective of our mind expanding contributors. I've been here for a
> long time and I think that Mark has been here even longer. Over that time I
> have never seen anyone start an interesting thread better than him. He adds
> validity and erases timidity to many a paranoid, including me.
>
> Mark Thorson is a master of his art.
>
> Charlie, a simple fan
>
>

How about a true story about autopsies?
I had a patient who had a very peculiar dementia that killed her in her
mid-fifties. We were all baffled. When she died, I was delighted that
the family wanted an autopsy, even if their motive seemed to be if they
could find something obvious and treatable that we missed so they could
sue (they were easily distressed people who simply could not accept that
the medical world cannot make everyone live till 80; and to see
someone waste away like that is pretty terrible).
When they found out her history, the hospital morgue (not my hospital)
refused to do the autopsy FOR FEAR OF MAD COW disease. They didn't want
to risk getting it by handling her brain tissue (I spoke to them
personally), and released the body to the family whom I believe had it
buried. I called the County Health Department while the body was still
at the morgue, to see about getting a place that would do an autopsy. I
think they thought I was a reporter, and there was much spluttering and
"uh uh uh" as I was passed up the line of command. I was surprized that
a patient whose history was alarming enough to make a morgue refuse to
do an autopsy would not be a "reportable communicable disease", like
syphilis. Everyone turfed me up to their boss until I got the state head
of infection control, a very nice Vet, who told me it was NOT a
reportable problem, yet, but that hopefully it would be soon. She gave
me the number of a place that would PAY the transport costs, take a
sample of brain, and send it to a national data bank to look for prion
disease, but that it was entirely up to the permission of the family.
The body was released to the family, and I, out of a sense of doing what
was right, called the daughters (a rather nasty task because they were
so angry) again, giving them the number, etc, and they, after the usual
round of chewing me out, told me an attorney was helping them with the
issue.

So, at least in my state as of last year, if an MD (or more than one)
suspects prion disease, the county will not act on tracking it down.
IF YOU DON'T LOOK FOR IT, YOU WON'T FIND IT...a medical truism.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 07:56:30 GMT, "Charles Gifford"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote
>>
>>
>> Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.
>>
>> Boron
>
>But my dear Boron, he is also one of the most consistently entertaining and
>THE most effective of our mind expanding contributors. I've been here for a
>long time and I think that Mark has been here even longer. Over that time I
>have never seen anyone start an interesting thread better than him. He adds
>validity and erases timidity to many a paranoid, including me.
>
>Mark Thorson is a master of his art.
>
>Charlie, a simple fan
>


That is one of the most delightful manners of troll labeling I have
seen in years.

Boron

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 01:58:38 -0600, "AL" > wrote:

>The purpose of me citing the second article was to lend credence to the
>first article (the one from Rense). The second article stated that prions
>could not be destroyed by sterlization.
>
>The following article states that autopsy frequencies have dropped and so
>CJD deaths are being missed. This also lends credence to the Rense article.
>
>http://www.upi.com/inc/view.php?Stor...1-102924-4786r
>
No it doesn't. The decrease in autopsies has nothing to do with prion
diseases, which was your premise.

And by the way...UPI is owed by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon.

You are boring..

Boron

After reading all the replies, I found it interesting that no one
thought to make mention of the following from the article:

"Alvin Kingsford, 72, died recently of suspected sporadic
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the fatal brain-wasting illness...Sporadic,
or naturally occurring, CJD differs from the permutation dubbed variant
CJD, which is caused by eating mad-cow-tainted beef..."

Sporadic CJD, not mad-cow. Naturally occurring. The article states that
all the cases mentioned do not appear to have a common exposure.

JP



Mark Thorson wrote:

>Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>in Idaho:
>
>http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>
>It's only going to get worse from here!
>
>

Charles Gifford wrote on 06 Nov 2005 in rec.food.cooking

>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote
> >
> >
> > Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.
> >
> > Boron
>
> But my dear Boron, he is also one of the most consistently
> entertaining and THE most effective of our mind expanding
> contributors. I've been here for a long time and I think that Mark has
> been here even longer. Over that time I have never seen anyone start
> an interesting thread better than him. He adds validity and erases
> timidity to many a paranoid, including me.
>
> Mark Thorson is a master of his art.
>
> Charlie, a simple fan
>
>
>

I'm just waiTing till he brings in the tie...to connect it to US beef.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.

JP wrote:
> After reading all the replies, I found it interesting that no one
> thought to make mention of the following from the article:
>
> "Alvin Kingsford, 72, died recently of suspected sporadic
> Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the fatal brain-wasting illness...Sporadic,
> or naturally occurring, CJD differs from the permutation dubbed variant
> CJD, which is caused by eating mad-cow-tainted beef..."

It isn't that we didn't think to mention it. It wasn't worth mentioning.
The OP is waving pandemic flag based on this article without bothering
with the truly salient points: everything is "suspected," some of the
autopsies were negative, nothing was proven, and there is no common
thread among the "victims."

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 03:59:45 -0800, kalanamak >
wrote:

>Charles Gifford wrote:
>> "Boron Elgar" > wrote
>>
>>>
>>>Mr. Thorson is a professional panic-meister on this topic.
>>>
>>>Boron
>>
>>
>> But my dear Boron, he is also one of the most consistently entertaining and
>> THE most effective of our mind expanding contributors. I've been here for a
>> long time and I think that Mark has been here even longer. Over that time I
>> have never seen anyone start an interesting thread better than him. He adds
>> validity and erases timidity to many a paranoid, including me.
>>
>> Mark Thorson is a master of his art.
>>
>> Charlie, a simple fan
>>
>>
>
>How about a true story about autopsies?

Next time you have a problem, call the National Prion Disease
Pathology Surveillance Center. Their number is listed in the link
below.
http://www.cjdsurveillance.com/protocols.html

In part the page says:

"In order to provide effective surveillance for CJD and other prion
diseases, we strongly recommend that an effort be made to have an
autopsy performed in all suspected cases of prion disease. We are
available to coordinate autopsies, and all of our services are
provided free of charge. Please contact the Autopsy Coordinator at
216-368-0587 for more information."

Not every family will give permission, of course, and not every
hospital's morgue is equipped to handle such an autopsy due to the
very detailed requirements (not every hospital does cardiac surgery
or neurosurgery or bone marrow transplants , either) but any
physician who suspects prion involvement has access to a free autopsy
with family permission.

The link below is to the CDC requirements for the autopsy.

http://tinyurl.com/ctpy6

Boron

Boron Elgar wrote:
>
> Although CWD is a contagious fatal disease among deer and elk,
> research suggests that humans, cattle and other domestic livestock
> are resistant to natural transmission. While the possibility
> of human infection remains a concern, it is important to note
> there have been no verified cases of humans contracting CWD.

Tell that to these young children, who
lost their deer-hunting father to CJD:

http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/cwd/killer/5.cfm

This is one article in a series about CWD/CJD.
Here is the index to that series:

http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/cwd/killer/index.cfm

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 17:39:39 GMT, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>Boron Elgar wrote:
>>
>> Although CWD is a contagious fatal disease among deer and elk,
>> research suggests that humans, cattle and other domestic livestock
>> are resistant to natural transmission. While the possibility
>> of human infection remains a concern, it is important to note
>> there have been no verified cases of humans contracting CWD.
>
>Tell that to these young children, who
>lost their deer-hunting father to CJD:
>
>http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/cwd/killer/5.cfm

Try *reading* an article before you post it as proof.

"But an autopsy made it clear that Doug had not died of mad cow, which
leaves a distinct pattern in the human brain."

CJD & V CJD, leave distinctive patterns in the brain. All TSEs do.
This guy did not have what looked like them. The article uses terms
such as "apparently died of," with no nothing other than his wife's
guess that it is CWD, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

One also assumes that if this man were such as avid hunter, that his
wife & family would have shared in the largess of his hunting trips.

>This is one article in a series about CWD/CJD.
>Here is the index to that series:
>
>http://cfapp.rockymountainnews.com/cwd/killer/index.cfm

Nothing there, either, hon. Come back when you have some proof, not
wild speculation.


Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote
>
Deer and elk can be affected by Chronic Wasting Disease. Not all
> states have shown evidence, though.
<SNIP>

I work on a much simpler level. And often a single tracked one.

All elk are deer, but not all deer are elk.

Charlie, who in compensation offers this nice recipe from Rao's in NYC:

PASTA WITH CABBAGE AND SAUSAGE

Recipe: Rao's Restaurant, NY
From: Saveur
A Calabrian dish


1 small Savoy cabbage (about 1 lb.), cut into 6 pieces
1/4 cup extra virgin olive oil
4 cloves garlic, peeled and mashed
1 lb. Italian sausage, casings removed, cut into small pieces
salt and freshly ground black pepper
3 cups warm marinara sauce
1 lb. penne pasta
freshly grated pecorino Romano

Put cabbage in a large pot, cover with cold water, and bring to a boil over
high heat. Reduce heat to medium and cook until just soft, about 5 minutes.
Drain, then plunge cabbage into ice water, drain again and pat dry. Cut into
bite-size pieces and set aside.

Heat oil with garlic in a large sauté pan over medium heat. Add sausage and
sauté until cooked through, about 10 minutes. Add cabbage, season to taste
with salt and pepper, and cook, stirring a few times, about 2 minutes. Add
marinara sauce and cook until the flavors blend, about 5 minutes.

Cook penne in a large pot of boiling, salted water until tender but firm,
7-10 minutes. Drain, return to pot, stir in some sauce, then transfer to a
platter and top with remaining sauce. Serve with grated pecorino Romano.

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 03:30:48 GMT, "Charles Gifford"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote
>>
>Deer and elk can be affected by Chronic Wasting Disease. Not all
>> states have shown evidence, though.
><SNIP>
>
>I work on a much simpler level. And often a single tracked one.
>
>All elk are deer, but not all deer are elk.
>
The ones being talked about with CWD are from 2 different
sub-families.

Boron

SD wrote:
> pennyaline wrote:
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> > > Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
> > > in Idaho:
> > >
> > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
> > >
> > > It's only going to get worse from here!
> >
> >
> > Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
> >
> > "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
> > positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
> > tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
> > sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
> > Two suspected cases tested negative.
> >
> > Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
> > calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
> > from the victims who got autopsies."
>
> Another point. It may not necessarily be related to consuming beef.
> Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer/elk equivalent of mad cow disease
> (cattle) and scrapie (sheep). This could be related to consuming
> venison and elk meat.
>
> SD

You both need to read the article mark Thorson cited. It is suspected
"sporadic CJD" not new variant CJD (vCJD). The latter is caused by
eating "tainted" meat (deer, elk, beef), The former is, per the article
"naturally occurring." (Whatever that means.)

-bwg
Wow! Brazil is big.
G.W. Bush

Charles Gifford wrote:
> "SD" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > deer/elk
>
> Deer/elk?
>
> Charlie

Deer and elk have been found to have Chronic Wasting Disease, the
equivalent disease in cattle is Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy or Mad
Cow Disease and in sheep it is known as scrapie.

SD

wrote:
> SD wrote:
> > pennyaline wrote:
> > > Mark Thorson wrote:
> > > > Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
> > > > in Idaho:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
> > > >
> > > > It's only going to get worse from here!
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
> > >
> > > "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
> > > positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
> > > tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
> > > sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
> > > Two suspected cases tested negative.
> > >
> > > Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
> > > calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
> > > from the victims who got autopsies."
> >
> > Another point. It may not necessarily be related to consuming beef.
> > Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer/elk equivalent of mad cow disease
> > (cattle) and scrapie (sheep). This could be related to consuming
> > venison and elk meat.
> >
> > SD
>
> You both need to read the article mark Thorson cited. It is suspected
> "sporadic CJD" not new variant CJD (vCJD). The latter is caused by
> eating "tainted" meat (deer, elk, beef), The former is, per the article
> "naturally occurring." (Whatever that means.)
>
> -bwg
> Wow! Brazil is big.
> G.W. Bush

Since the OP seems to wnat to cause flap about contaminated beef
supplies, I was merely pointing out that beef is not the only source of
the prions that can cause this disease. Nothing more, nothing less.
Normally I don't even bother with Mr Mass Hysteria's postings.

SD

On 7 Nov 2005 12:42:19 -0800, "
> wrote:

>
>SD wrote:
>> pennyaline wrote:
>> > Mark Thorson wrote:
>> > > Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>> > > in Idaho:
>> > >
>> > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>> > >
>> > > It's only going to get worse from here!
>> >
>> >
>> > Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
>> >
>> > "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
>> > positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
>> > tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
>> > sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
>> > Two suspected cases tested negative.
>> >
>> > Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
>> > calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
>> > from the victims who got autopsies."
>>
>> Another point. It may not necessarily be related to consuming beef.
>> Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer/elk equivalent of mad cow disease
>> (cattle) and scrapie (sheep). This could be related to consuming
>> venison and elk meat.
>>
>> SD
>
>You both need to read the article mark Thorson cited. It is suspected
>"sporadic CJD" not new variant CJD (vCJD). The latter is caused by
>eating "tainted" meat (deer, elk, beef), The former is, per the article
>"naturally occurring." (Whatever that means.)
>
>-bwg
>Wow! Brazil is big.
> G.W. Bush

Actually, I don't think there are any verified human cases of prion
disease caused by eating/handling deer or elk meat from animals who
have CWD.

Boron

wrote:
> SD wrote:
>> pennyaline wrote:
>>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>>>> Extraordinary cluster of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (CJD)
>>>> in Idaho:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...e_x.htm?csp=34
>>>>
>>>> It's only going to get worse from here!
>>>
>>> Did you read the article? It's "suspected" CJD. From the article:
>>>
>>> "Of the nine suspected cases reported so far in 2005, three tested
>>> positive for an infectious disease of the nervous system, though more
>>> tests are pending to determine if the fatal illness was in fact
>>> sporadic CJD. Four apparent victims were buried without autopsies.
>>> Two suspected cases tested negative.
>>>
>>> Still, federal and state health officials are stopping just short of
>>> calling the Idaho cases a "cluster," waiting for final test results
>>> from the victims who got autopsies."
>> Another point. It may not necessarily be related to consuming beef.
>> Chronic Wasting Disease is the deer/elk equivalent of mad cow disease
>> (cattle) and scrapie (sheep). This could be related to consuming
>> venison and elk meat.
>>
>> SD
>
> You both need to read the article mark Thorson cited. It is suspected
> "sporadic CJD" not new variant CJD (vCJD). The latter is caused by
> eating "tainted" meat (deer, elk, beef), The former is, per the article
> "naturally occurring." (Whatever that means.)


No, I don't think I need to read the article Mark Thorson cited, as I
quoted directly from it and therefore demonstrated that I'd already read
it. I did not mention anywhere that the "suspected" cases may have been
caused by eating the meat of sickened animals. I provided a quotation
form the article Mark used in his own defense, and showed that the
article did not defend him at all.

SD wrote:
>
> Normally I don't even bother with Mr Mass Hysteria's postings.

The people who always say DON'T PANIC would have a whole lot
more credibility if every once in a while when justified
by reliable information, expert opinion, and/or conservative
speculation they said PANIC.

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 18:56:03 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>SD wrote:
>>
>> Normally I don't even bother with Mr Mass Hysteria's postings.
>
>The people who always say DON'T PANIC would have a whole lot
>more credibility if every once in a while when justified
>by reliable information, expert opinion, and/or conservative
>speculation they said PANIC.


So take a deep breath, re-evaluate you behavior, and then try posting
reliable information, expert opinion, and/or conservative
speculation instead of wearing a tin foil bonnet while shinnying up
the nearest tree.


Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 03:30:48 GMT, "Charles Gifford"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Boron Elgar" > wrote
> >>
> >Deer and elk can be affected by Chronic Wasting Disease. Not all
> >> states have shown evidence, though.
> ><SNIP>
> >
> >I work on a much simpler level. And often a single tracked one.
> >
> >All elk are deer, but not all deer are elk.
> >
> The ones being talked about with CWD are from 2 different
> sub-families.
>
> Boron

Impossible. But, nevermind.

Charlie, who wasn't even thinking about CWD.