In article .com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> > faretheewell. I don't give a rat's tail who's chatting or isn't.
> > Maybe my attitude would improve with estrogen but I doubt it.
>
> Hows-a-bout estrogin? hehe
>
> Sheldon

Bottoms up!
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-19-05 - Shiksa Varnishkes.

In article >,
"jmcquown" > wrote:

> IIRC, you've dropped in a few times and had little to say and left without
> even saying "bye".

Months since I was there. Maybe a year or more. The software I was
using had an expiry on it and there was nothing of interest to me. Say
hi to Boli if he's still there. I enjoy IM, but just never got into the
group 'chat' thing.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-19-05 - Shiksa Varnishkes.

Damsel in dis Dress > writes:

>On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:36:14 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>>Shouldn't be posted - at the very least. Sorry, Carol, but any other
>>repetitive announcement would be pounced upon by one, all, many, most,
>>or some as spam.

>I never announce it, myself. I think a mailing list is a good idea.

The only problem (if you can call it that) I have with chat posts is
that by the time I see them, the chat has long since passed. If you
don't check Usenet several times a day you won't see the post in a
timely manner.
Honestly, I don't think people who log on anonymously are sitting
there staring at the conversation. They may have stumbled across the
chat on the IRC host listing and checked it out, then went afk, shrunk
down the window, or didn't completely disconnect due to a software blip.
A solution might be to create some script that would disconnect guests
or anons after 5 minutes of idle time. People who change their logins
to names or other IDs could idle, but not anonymous. What do you think?

Stacia

In article .com>,
"nancree" > wrote:

> Someone has been posting a "new rule" about RFC, that posting
> anonymously is no longer allowed. I choose not to post anonymously,
> but no one should be deciding what the rules should be. It is an open
> forum. No one can appoint themselves Chief Rule-Maker.


The Cabal has decided that anonymous posting is no longer allowed.
There is no Cabal.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:58:26 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

>
> Why?

Because it's active chat, not passive usenet. If they want to sit and
watch/read, they can do it here in rfc.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"Dan Abel" > wrote

> "nancree" > wrote:
>
>> Someone has been posting a "new rule" about RFC, that posting
>> anonymously is no longer allowed. I choose not to post anonymously,
>> but no one should be deciding what the rules should be. It is an open
>> forum. No one can appoint themselves Chief Rule-Maker.

> The Cabal has decided that anonymous posting is no longer allowed.
> There is no Cabal.

Well, it's not rfc, it's rfc chat, two different animals. And it's not
posting
as far as I am concerned. Anyone and everyone is welcome to join
chat, all that is being asked is that people just say hi, even. Not just
deathly silence. Whether people agree with that or not, that is all that's
being asked. Just a common courtesy.

It's most likely just one or two people, I don't know why they are doing
this when they've been asked to say something when they show up.

But this has nothing at all to do with any cabal.

nancy

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:22:00 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter
Ninja) wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress > writes:

>
>>I never announce it, myself. I think a mailing list is a good idea.

I don't personally like the mailing list, because that gets to be
rather exclusive after a bit. And this way, anyone from rfc can join
in chatting with us. If we use a mailing list, then that limits the
amount of folks that might come join us, since we would only be
mailing each other.

Carol, I know you feel that it has gotten a bit big. But haven't you
had fun with all the new folks? I certainly have...and I like to meet
new rfc folks in there. I don't think I am alone in that respect.

> Honestly, I don't think people who log on anonymously are sitting
>there staring at the conversation. They may have stumbled across the
>chat on the IRC host listing and checked it out, then went afk, shrunk
>down the window, or didn't completely disconnect due to a software blip.

This is not a public channel. It is not on a list. So the only people
that would know about it are folks that frequent rfc.


Christine

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:36:14 -0600, Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> I don't give a rat's tail who's chatting or isn't.

Feel free to KF Chat... it's easy to do.

> Maybe my attitude would improve with estrogen but I doubt it.

Take a chill pill. We aren't treating it like the exclusive club it
seemed to be back when you were active in the chat channel.

Sure, the rest of us knew about the chat channel because we had LOTS
of references to your chatting chat AFTER the chat session was well
over. However, there were very few pointers to the channel itself,
which made us feel like we weren't invited, which smacked of "clique".
OTOH, we aren't making assumptions that people hang on our every word
and save posted information for a later date (so they can drop by on a
whim).

The reason we post when the channel isn't dead is that we are trying
to make people feel welcome. If you don't want to come, fine. If you
don't want to see "Chat" posted, then kill it. No skin off my nose or
yours.

BTW: The chat channel is now active. Please join us!

Java link, using your web browser:
http://www.penguinpowered.ca/~vexorg...d.cooking.html


IRC:
Server: irc.penguinpowered.ca
Port: 6667
Channel: #rec.food.cooking
Download software he www.mirc.com


Web Users: to change your nickname - there is a box to fill in on the
right bottom corner (hit enter). If that doesn't work, in the text
bar type /nick <yournewname> (no brackets) and hit enter or click OK

--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 09:44:46 -0500, A.C. wrote:

>
> Sheldon wrote:
>
> > Nope. 'Cause I haven't been, and it's not my style to perform an alias
> > sneak. But considering some of those I've been told frequent the
> > possibility is more than a mere threat... not about to set myself up, I
> > receive more than my share of ridicule here. And now that I've
> > learned who dictates da-rulz I'd stand far better odds visiting Cuba.
> > Imagine... how would I protect myself.
> >
> > Sheldon Condom
>
>
> <translated> chickenshit ;-)
>
No... he's being honest. They've killfiled each other.

--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 08:50:01 -0600, jmcquown wrote:
>
> Some people are IRC channel operators and there *are* rules. Just because
> you haven't registered on mIRC and use the java applet is no excuse to not
> identify yourself. It's rude to sit there and not be identified.
>
There's no law that says anyone needs to use their real name, just
change it to *something* and TALK.


--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 02:22:00 +0000 (UTC), Glitter Ninja wrote:

> A solution might be to create some script that would disconnect guests
> or anons after 5 minutes of idle time. People who change their logins
> to names or other IDs could idle, but not anonymous. What do you think?

sounds good

--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

In article >,
Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:

> On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:36:14 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >Shouldn't be posted - at the very least. Sorry, Carol, but any other
> >repetitive announcement would be pounced upon by one, all, many, most,
> >or some as spam. Victor posts a reminder to the FAQ file what, once a
> >week? Once a month? Great; that's directly related to the group. Why
> >don't y'all develop a group mailing list and email each other to a
> >faretheewell. I don't give a rat's tail who's chatting or isn't.
> >Maybe my attitude would improve with estrogen but I doubt it.
>
> I never announce it, myself. I think a mailing list is a good idea.
> On the other hand, I'm currently responding to someone who's thinking
> of hopping in with us. And that's because of this thread.
>
> I'm Switzerland.
>
> Menopause sucks.
>
> Carol

I like it when it's posted here that it's on... :-)
I join if I have time.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Bob Terwilliger wrote:

> Jill wrote:
>
>
>>When we announce a chat we are just inviting folks to join in. The fact
>>is most of us are on different time zones so we decided it's a good idea
>>to announce chatting to encourage more people to join in if it's
>>convenient. I don't see anything wrong with it.
>>
>>BUT we would like to know who you are.
>
>
> When I get into the chat, some people already know it's me even before I
> change my nick from "Anonymous". I assume my IP address is being shown.

The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
which is another reason I won't be chatting. While I don't mind sharing
bits and pieces of personal information such as general location of
where I live, I do mind sharing specific information that would allow
nutcases to stalk or harass. In the current atmosphere of online
activity, revealing where you live as in the actual town or city is not
a real smart thing to do. Now, I could easily set up a proxy to use the
java but it just isn't worth the effort right now.
>
> If I were Sheldon, I probably wouldn't participate in the chat either, but
> that's mainly because of the hours that the chat line is active. I'm
> astounded at the late hours kept by some of the East Coast chat
> participants. GRATEFUL for their welcome participation, but wow! Sometimes
> they don't sign off until 5 AM!.

Sheldon shouldn't be participating online at all until he gets his meds
in order

BTW, while I found the chat interesting, I didn't care for how other
posters were discussed behind their backs so to speak. But as was
pointed out it is not a public forum and it is owned by someone who does
set the rules. Unlike usenet, if they don't like you or what you say,
you can be booted. For that reason, there it is moderated and cliquish.
Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a proxy to
participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
identifying where you live or your IP address.

>
> Bob
>
>

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> On 21 Nov 2005 14:02:25 -0800, "nancree" > wrote:
>
>
>>Damsel,
>>I don't understand why you say this:
>>You wrote:
>>"Crash's rule refers to people who come in and just watch the rest of
>>us. It's creepy. These are not posters. They're just there, and no
>>one knows who they are."
>>
>>Why did you write this when Crash's name is one of those who is always
>>posted in the list as being on line--yet hours go by and he doesn't
>>post? He is apparently just watching, not posting. Just curious.
>>Don't misunderstand me. I prefer it when people identify themselves. I
>>do. My objection is to people who chime in with new rules that they are
>>apparently making them up by themselves. Who are the owners of this
>>RFC chat? Whoever they are, thank you for the work you do. But
>>perhaps you should identify yourselves, just so we know.
>> Thanks for any answers. Nancree
>
>
> Okay, let's see if I can cover all the bases. Several people who
> actually talk in the channel have expressed their discomfort with who
> knows who sitting and never saying a word. It's a place to have
> conversations. Some have felt that they were being spied on. On
> numerous occasions, people have welcomed the java users and tried to
> explain how to change their nicks. Most of those requests have been
> ignored and the person(s) still just sit there.
>
> Crash is always in the channel so that when someone comes in and he's
> awake, he can greet them and chat with them. I've been trying to
> train him to change his nick to Crash-afk or something when he goes to
> bed. I'll keep at him.
>
> Nancree, I rarely see you talk. You generally sit on the sidelines
> and watch, too.
>
> Crash made the rule for the emotional comfort of several people who
> have approached him regarding the subject.
>
> The server where the channel is hosted is personally run by a
> long-time friend of Crash's, so it is a private server. Each channel
> (chat room) is free to make their own rules, especially when it
> concerns the comfort levels of other participants. And like I said,
> this rule was in response to several persons' wishes.
>
> Carol

What really turned me off is when someone was having problems getting
onto the channel and their IP was posted in this newsgroup. The chat
channel is private and information revealed there should be kept
private. For whatever reason, many do not want their IP addresses
revealed on usenet. I thought that was rather a breach of privacy. I
also was turned off when it was announced several times who was in the
channel. Not that it really matters but private run chats should be
kept private much the same as email, IMO.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the few times I dropped in on the chats
but I won't compromise my privacy for them. I think they are great for
those who enjoy that type of thing. I think though that people need to
know they can be identified through their IP address and that they
cannot expect privacy when using mIRC. They also should be aware of the
privacy/security issues involving mIRC if using a PC. Mac users don't
need to be as concerned about the security issues but privacy issues are
still of concern. Those desiring privacy should use a proxy server to
connect to mIRC. As long as participants know the risks, then they
should be able to make an informed decision as to whether to
participate. Just my opinion and that won't count for much as it is a
private channel anyway.

I've said enough on this issue. I'm back to cooking.

One time on Usenet, "A.C." > said:
> Glitter Ninja wrote:

> > They're probably idle, or a chat bot. Or are you sure that's not the
> > case? I have only done a few chats in my day but we always (always!)
> > had people just sitting there, idle, while on other windows doing
> > something.
> > Chat bots can make themselves look unidle while recording the
> > conversation, fwiw.

> bots don't use the java client. personally, i could give a rats ass who idles
> and who doesn't. i've been using irc for years and i'm used to seeing people
> idle for days or weeks at a time. most of the people who are bothered by
> idlers are irc novices anyhow.

It depends on how "close" the channel users are -- I used to IRC with
a very tight group and we kicked anyone who didn't identify themselves
immediately. I think the RFCers are being pretty nice about it. Then
again, I don't do IRC so much now; by the time I read the notices and
get to the RFC channel, everyone's asleep or gone...


--
Jani in WA (S'mee)
~ mom, Trollop, novice cook ~

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >,
> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>
>
>>On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 10:56:16 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Maybe you wouldn't get so many silent types, strangers, if it weren't so
>>>publicized on r.f.c. announcing who's there, blahblahblah. At what
>>>point do those announcements become spam? Maybe never, I don't know.
>>>If you're the same people in there all the time and you're looking for
>>>each other, maybe you could email each other your announcements instead.
>>
>>Agreed. I've come close to killfiling the word, "chat" for that very
>>reason. On the other hand, the frequent announcements have brought a
>>lot of people to the channel who wouldn't have popped in otherwise.
>>But I still think it's gotten to be a bit much. Should be listed as
>>OT at the very least.
>>
>>Carol
>
>
> Shouldn't be posted - at the very least. Sorry, Carol, but any other
> repetitive announcement would be pounced upon by one, all, many, most,
> or some as spam. Victor posts a reminder to the FAQ file what, once a
> week? Once a month? Great; that's directly related to the group. Why
> don't y'all develop a group mailing list and email each other to a
> faretheewell. I don't give a rat's tail who's chatting or isn't.
> Maybe my attitude would improve with estrogen but I doubt it.

DH seems to think the estrogen is a god send. I'm not so sure In my
case, HRT has helped and while I'm not too thrilled about it, it is
necessary because of my age. Now I hear soy is not as good for you as
once thought

>
> OB Dinner:
> Baked stuffed pork chop from von Hanson's market

What was the stuffing? I'm looking for stuffing ideas. I thought a
veggie based stuffing might be nice but then so would a bread stuffing.

> Brussels sprouts from the co-op this afternoon. Whoops, I cooked and
> ate them already. Too bad, so sad.
> Green beans from the co-op
> Green salad with balsamic and maybe that avocado oil from TJ Maxx.

~patches~ wrote:

> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
> which is another reason I won't be chatting.

the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it yet you keep
commenting as if you're and expert.


> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
> for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
> actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a proxy to
> participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
> identifying where you live or your IP address.

maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon posted. then go
buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind control rays from
getting to you as well.

Christine Dabney wrote:
OR
>(Glitter Ninja) wrote:
>
> I don't personally like the mailing list, because that gets to be
> rather exclusive after a bit. And this way, anyone from rfc can join
> in chatting with us. If we use a mailing list, then that limits the
> amount of folks that might come join us, since we would only be
> mailing each other.

I don't think anyone would balk at a monthly post that merely indicates
the chat exists, with contact info... could even be included in the rfc
faq. It's the constant posts containing all kinds of personal info
(that has no business being posted) that is annoying, more than
annoying, it's highly offensive to post personal details... I certainly
wouldn't want it known whether I attended chats, with whom, and
definitely not what is being discussed... I also don't appreciate it
when people post who they email, that's way too indicative of invasion
of privacy... I really don't need to know which of yoose are asshole
buddies and who swaps spit with whom, and if you'll share one person's
email you'll share all. Anyone posts personal details that I've email
them will never receive another email from me, nor will I open
theirs... because if you post details about my email I know with
absolute certainty that you are prone to sharing my email elsewhere.
The difference about posting email vs newsgroup posts should be
patently obvious to all but the imbeciles... posts are archieved in
their entireity including all time/route elements... those absolutely
worthless douche bags who share email *edit to suit*... the person
whose email is disseminated has no way to refute (not that they're
obligated) save possibly physically sharing their hard drive.
Posting/sharing private email is a despicable act, whether publicly
posted or privately forwarded. And it's just as despicable to
post/email any personal details regarding chats, of which there is no
defence, none... if you do it you are a dirtbag. From what I've
garnered here regarding the rfc chat noting is sacred... it's a bad
thing operated by very bad people... anyone attends/participates is
setting themselves up for many stabs in the back... and that is the
*only* real reason the dirtbags need to know that you're there and who
you are, so they can do their dirt of course, that's what chat rooms
are about. duh Yoose newbies, be warned, anything you say in a chat
can and will be shared. Chats, any chats, exist for one thing and one
thing only, knowing your business.

I got anything to say I post it here in the open forum, share and share
alike with all... anything, and I mean anything, posted here is public
property... but here I know it.

Sheldon

In article >,
OmManiPadmeOmelet > wrote:

> In article >,
> Damsel in dis Dress > wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:36:14 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >Shouldn't be posted - at the very least. Sorry, Carol, but any other
> > >repetitive announcement would be pounced upon by one, all, many, most,
> > >or some as spam.

> > I never announce it, myself. I think a mailing list is a good idea.

> I like it when it's posted here that it's on... :-)
> I join if I have time.

Thing is, it's *always on* -- why not just pop in and see what's
happening? You need a reminder? Check out 3M post-it notes for your
screen. "-)
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-19-05 - Shiksa Varnishkes.

A.C. wrote:
> ~patches~ wrote:
>
> > The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
> > which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>
> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it yet you keep
> commenting as if you're and expert.
>
>
> > Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
> > for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
> > actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a proxy to
> > participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
> > identifying where you live or your IP address.
>
> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon posted. then go
> buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind control rays from
> getting to you as well.

She's a typical newbie (google says she's posting less than a year),
her vocabulary contains just enough nomenclature to impress lesser
newbies but hasn't a clue what she's talking about.

A.C. wrote:

> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>
>>The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
>>which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>
>
> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it yet you keep
> commenting as if you're and expert.
>

I do understand mIRC having at one time before I became more interested
in computer security issues, used it quite a bit. I could not get the
java to show the IP addresses either and I did try several times. I
made the assumption, obviously wrong if you can get the java to show the
IP addresses, that for some reason java would not do this. The java is
finicky at best anyway but better than installing mIRC, IMO.
>
>
>> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
>>for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
>>actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a proxy to
>>participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
>>identifying where you live or your IP address.
>
>
> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon posted. then go
> buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind control rays from
> getting to you as well.

Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it here
as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our little
secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a little

~patches~ wrote:
> A.C. wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
>>> which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>>
>>
>>
>> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it yet
>> you keep
>> commenting as if you're and expert.
>>
>
> I do understand mIRC having at one time before I became more interested
> in computer security issues, used it quite a bit. I could not get the
> java to show the IP addresses either and I did try several times. I
> made the assumption, obviously wrong if you can get the java to show the
> IP addresses, that for some reason java would not do this. The java is
> finicky at best anyway but better than installing mIRC, IMO.
>
>>
>>
>>> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
>>> for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
>>> actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a proxy to
>>> participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
>>> identifying where you live or your IP address.
>>
>>
>>
>> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon
>> posted. then go
>> buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind control
>> rays from
>> getting to you as well.
>
>
> Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
> security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
> kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
> numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it here
> as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our little
> secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a little

Knowing someone's IP address cannot provide any of that information,
unless you make it accessible.

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

~patches~ wrote:
> sarah bennett wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>> A.C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently
>>>>> does
>>>>> which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it
>>>> yet you keep
>>>> commenting as if you're and expert.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do understand mIRC having at one time before I became more
>>> interested in computer security issues, used it quite a bit. I could
>>> not get the java to show the IP addresses either and I did try
>>> several times. I made the assumption, obviously wrong if you can get
>>> the java to show the IP addresses, that for some reason java would
>>> not do this. The java is finicky at best anyway but better than
>>> installing mIRC, IMO.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
>>>>> for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
>>>>> actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a
>>>>> proxy to
>>>>> participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
>>>>> identifying where you live or your IP address.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon
>>>> posted. then go
>>>> buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind
>>>> control rays from
>>>> getting to you as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
>>> security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
>>> kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
>>> numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it
>>> here as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our
>>> little secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a
>>> little
>>
>>
>>
>> Knowing someone's IP address cannot provide any of that information,
>> unless you make it accessible.
>>
> Knowing the IP address of an unprotected computer when continuously
> connected as in using mIRC can give immediate access to anyone who so
> chooses and has the skills to do so. That means *anything* stored on
> your computer such as any of the info mentioned above and much more can
> easily be had all while you are chatting away on mIRC and without your
> knowledge that anyone is snooping. It *is* rather easy to do, btw. But
> don't take my word for it, do a little research yourself.

Well, I for one, do not have my credit card information or SSN on my
computer. I'm really not all that worried about random people trying to
hack into my computer. I have no reason to be so paranoid.

--

saerah

"Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a
disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice."
-Baruch Spinoza

"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly
what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear
and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There
is another theory which states that this has already happened."
-Douglas Adams

sarah bennett wrote:
> ~patches~ wrote:
>
>> A.C. wrote:
>>
>>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently
>>>> does
>>>> which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it yet
>>> you keep
>>> commenting as if you're and expert.
>>>
>>
>> I do understand mIRC having at one time before I became more
>> interested in computer security issues, used it quite a bit. I could
>> not get the java to show the IP addresses either and I did try several
>> times. I made the assumption, obviously wrong if you can get the java
>> to show the IP addresses, that for some reason java would not do
>> this. The java is finicky at best anyway but better than installing
>> mIRC, IMO.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
>>>> for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
>>>> actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a
>>>> proxy to
>>>> participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy regarding
>>>> identifying where you live or your IP address.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon
>>> posted. then go
>>> buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent the mind control
>>> rays from
>>> getting to you as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
>> security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
>> kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
>> numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it
>> here as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our
>> little secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a
>> little
>
>
> Knowing someone's IP address cannot provide any of that information,
> unless you make it accessible.
>
Knowing the IP address of an unprotected computer when continuously
connected as in using mIRC can give immediate access to anyone who so
chooses and has the skills to do so. That means *anything* stored on
your computer such as any of the info mentioned above and much more can
easily be had all while you are chatting away on mIRC and without your
knowledge that anyone is snooping. It *is* rather easy to do, btw. But
don't take my word for it, do a little research yourself.

In article >,
~patches~ > wrote:


> which is another reason I won't be chatting. While I don't mind sharing
> bits and pieces of personal information such as general location of
> where I live, I do mind sharing specific information that would allow
> nutcases to stalk or harass. In the current atmosphere of online
> activity, revealing where you live as in the actual town or city is not
> a real smart thing to do. Now, I could easily set up a proxy to use the


Well, I know *exactly* where Patches lives, and I'm going to post it
here for everybody to see. If you want to stalk Patches, she lives
right here...




on Earth. That's right, Earth.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:40:41 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>Thing is, it's *always on* -- why not just pop in and see what's
>happening? You need a reminder? Check out 3M post-it notes for your
>screen. "-)

It may always be on, but many times there is no one in there with whom
to chat.

When it is announced, then there are folks in there wanting to chat.

Christine

Dan Abel wrote:

> In article >,
> ~patches~ > wrote:
>
>
>
>>which is another reason I won't be chatting. While I don't mind sharing
>>bits and pieces of personal information such as general location of
>>where I live, I do mind sharing specific information that would allow
>>nutcases to stalk or harass. In the current atmosphere of online
>>activity, revealing where you live as in the actual town or city is not
>>a real smart thing to do. Now, I could easily set up a proxy to use the
>
>
>
> Well, I know *exactly* where Patches lives, and I'm going to post it
> here for everybody to see. If you want to stalk Patches, she lives
> right here...
>
>
>
>
> on Earth. That's right, Earth.
>
I do not - I'm interplantary, extraordinary, donchaknow? I travel
between the planets by microwaves always one step ahead of the stalkers.
I usually access usenet through telopathy as I find pushing computer
keys a tad boring

Sheldon Katz wrote:

> I certainly wouldn't want it known whether I attended chats, with whom,
> and definitely not what is being discussed...

Been hanging around the NAMBLA chat rooms again, Katz?


> the person whose email is disseminated has no way to refute (not that
> they're obligated) save possibly physically sharing their hard drive.

This is a valid point; I've run across that issue in connection with some
e-mail lists. The list rule is that nobody can forward a private e-mail to
the list unless they have explicit permission from the originator of the
e-mail. But it has NOTHING to do with IRC chat.


> Posting/sharing private email is a despicable act, whether publicly
> posted or privately forwarded. And it's just as despicable to
> post/email any personal details regarding chats, of which there is no
> defence, none... if you do it you are a dirtbag.

Your chief objection seems to be that there is no safeguard to prevent
someone from falsely reporting what you said -- unless you're the kind of
weasel who says something and then denies saying it.

But what's stopping anybody from falsely reporting your chat activity NOW?
I could start up a new thread with the Subject line of "Hey Sheldon, about
the hemorrhoids you mentioned in the chat room..." couldn't I? How is that
any different from someone bringing a distorted version of chat-room
discussions into this newsgroup?

Interestingly, you also seem to fear that your chat activity will be
ACCURATELY reported. I wonder what chat activity you're so ashamed of that
you'd write a 4KB post for the sole purpose of attacking the chat line.
What did you do, ask for a recipe for Coq au Viagra?


> Yoose newbies, be warned, anything you say in a chat can and will be
> shared. Chats, any chats, exist for one thing and one thing only, knowing
> your business.
>
> I got anything to say I post it here in the open forum, share and share
> alike with all... anything, and I mean anything, posted here is public
> property... but here I know it.

So why not participate in the chat room with that same attitude, that
everything you say might be made public? Personally, I'm not ashamed of
anything I've written in the chat room; it wouldn't bother me if it became
public. I suppose if I were a complete scumbag on the chat line -- as you
are on this NG -- I might want to conceal my activity, but that's not the
case.

On second thought, never mind: We don't want you on the chat line anyway.

Bob

Jill wrote:

> look at all the controversy over lima beans vs. butter beans That chat
> carried over into this ng and then back again in the channel the next day.

For those who weren't on the chat line that night, let me step up and admit
that I STARTED THE WHOLE BUTTER-BEAN THING! On the chat line, I mentioned
that I had a hankering for butter beans. The rest just played itself out
when "certain members" of the discussion couldn't agree on what butter beans
are.

Bob

Christine wrote:

> It may always be on, but many times there is no one in there with whom
> to chat.
>
> When it is announced, then there are folks in there wanting to chat.

I don't think it *is* always on. There have been frequent occasions when I'd
try to connect and I couldn't get in. I popped in there about ten minutes
ago and nobody but the idlers were there.

Bob

On 22 Nov 2005 15:52:03 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>The rest just played itself out
>when "certain members" of the discussion couldn't agree on what butter beans
>are.

I resemble that remark!!!!!!

LOL

Christine

~patches~ wrote:

> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently does
> which is another reason I won't be chatting. While I don't mind sharing
> bits and pieces of personal information such as general location of where
> I live, I do mind sharing specific information that would allow nutcases
> to stalk or harass. In the current atmosphere of online activity,
> revealing where you live as in the actual town or city is not a real smart
> thing to do. Now, I could easily set up a proxy to use the java but it
> just isn't worth the effort right now.

Your IP address will reveal your ISP. If your ISP only serves one city, then
it's likely -- though not CERTAIN -- that a subscriber lives in that city.
However, few ISP's are that localized. Moreover, your IP address is likely
to change every now and then due to what is called DHCP. (Google for an
explanation of that term.)

I'm not sure how much information you think can be gained by knowing
someone's IP address, but your post seems to indicate that you believe it's
a lot. So he The IP address I used on the chat recently was
209.77.116.73. Now try and tell me what town I live in.


> BTW, while I found the chat interesting, I didn't care for how other
> posters were discussed behind their backs so to speak.

....but we were *always* positive about YOU! Cross my heart! ;-)

I never said anything on the chat line that I would mind saying on RFC -- or
to someone's face, for that matter. (Unlike a certain cowardly ex-Navy
messy cook.)

The purpose of RFC Chat, as I see it, is to provide a more immediate and
informal communications medium for RFC participants to get to know each
other better. Inasmuch as the raison d'etre for the chat line revolves
around RFC, it's only natural for chat participants to mention other RFC
participants; it's a common ground for discussion. It can't be helped that
it's behind the backs of some of the subject individuals, but that's because
those individuals choose not to participate in that forum, not because of
any malice or insularity of the chat group.


> But as was pointed out it is not a public forum and it is owned by someone
> who does set the rules. Unlike usenet, if they don't like you or what you
> say, you can be booted. For that reason, there it is moderated and
> cliquish.

Moderation is a BAD thing? Hey, have ya had that online chat with HeartDoc?
And am *I* a member of "the clique"? That would be news to ME. I've always
found the chat room to be welcoming to everybody. Being moderated, of
course it COULD be cliquish, but that would -- as in all similar
situations -- depend on the temperaments of the individuals involved. And my
experience has been that those individuals play well with others.


> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble for
> anyone they dislike.

How? I've given you my IP address, now tell me how you could "easily" make
trouble for me.

Bob

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 12:23:15 -0500, ~patches~
> wrote:

>Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
>security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
>kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
>numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it here
>as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our little
>secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a little

You're an imbecile.

Carol
--
Wash away the gray to respond.

On 22 Nov 2005 16:29:02 -0600, "Bob Terwilliger"
> wrote:

>And am *I* a member of "the clique"? That would be news to ME. I've always
>found the chat room to be welcoming to everybody. Being moderated, of
>course it COULD be cliquish, but that would -- as in all similar
>situations -- depend on the temperaments of the individuals involved. And my
>experience has been that those individuals play well with others.

I'm so sick of hearing about the channel clique (There Is No Clique).
Some participants talk more than others, but that doesn't make them
part of a clique. It makes them talkative. Some have had contact
with each otherover a long period of time, so they have more to talk
about, but that doesn't mean that they don't welcome newcomers. They
do.

I'm both amused and annoyed by the people who don't even use the
channel, but have such strongs opinions about it. Cyber backseat
drivers.

As a few folks have said, keep what's said in the channel in the
channel. Don't bring it back to the newsgoup. Nancree brought
channel policy to the newsgroup and started this whole bruhaha
unnecessarily.

ObFood: Chew on that for awhile.

Carol
--
Wash away the gray to respond.

~patches~ wrote:
> A.C. wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The java doesn't show the IP address but the mIRC client apparently
>>> does
>>> which is another reason I won't be chatting.
>>
>>
>> the java client shows the ip address too. you don't understand it
>> yet you keep commenting as if you're and expert.
>>
>
> I do understand mIRC having at one time before I became more
> interested
> in computer security issues, used it quite a bit. I could not get the
> java to show the IP addresses either and I did try several times. I
> made the assumption, obviously wrong if you can get the java to show
> the
> IP addresses, that for some reason java would not do this. The java
> is
> finicky at best anyway but better than installing mIRC, IMO.
>>
>>
>>> Armed with your IP address, participants could easily make trouble
>>> for anyone they dislike. This is one of the very few times I will
>>> actually agree with Sheldon. I would certainly advise using a
>>> proxy to participate if you want to ensure any degree of privacy
>>> regarding
>>> identifying where you live or your IP address.
>>
>>
>> maybe you should hit that "A Public Service" thread that sheldon
>> posted. then go buy yourself one of those metal helmets that prevent
>> the mind control rays from getting to you as well.
>
> Whatever. If you aren't interested in online privacy or computer
> security fine, but others are. Since obviously you aren't, could you
> kindly provide your name, address, SS/SIN, phone number, credit card
> numbers, birth date, and mother's maiden name. Just kindly post it
> here
> as I *promise* I won't tell anyone else. It will just be our little
> secret. Oh and please leave a few ports open so I can play a little
>

Oh don't be silly. We already have all that information and if were were
going to do something evil with it we already would have

Jill

In article >,
Christine Dabney > wrote:

> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 10:40:41 -0600, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:
>
> >Thing is, it's *always on* -- why not just pop in and see what's
> >happening? You need a reminder? Check out 3M post-it notes for your
> >screen. "-)
>
> It may always be on, but many times there is no one in there with whom
> to chat.
>
> When it is announced, then there are folks in there wanting to chat.
>
> Christine

Folks? Plural? Neato. Let them talk to each other then and if they
want to speak with a specific person not present, send an email.



OB Cooking:

* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

"Hamburger Helper" Mix

Recipe By : Some website, posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb
Schaller, 11-22-05
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Miscellaneous

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 cups non-fat dry milk powder
1 cup cornstarch
1/4 cup beef or chicken bouillon granules
2 tablespoons onion flakes
1 teaspoon dried basil
1 teaspoon dried thyme
1 teaspoon black pepper
2 tablespoons dried parsley
1 tablespoon garlic powder

Mix the ingredients together and store in an airtight container. Use
for a base for Chili Tomato Mac, Ground Beef Stroganoff, Hearty Potato
Casserole.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Per serving (excluding unknown items): 567 Calories; less than one gram
Fat (1% calories from fat); 4g Protein; 135g Carbohydrate; 0mg
Cholesterol; 26mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 9 Starch/Bread

NOTES : Made this and packaged "meals" for Chris and Jamie, Christmas
2002.

_____
* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Chili Tomato Mac with Homemade Hamburger Helper Mix

Recipe By : Off the net somewhere, posted to rec.food.cooking by
Barb Schaller, 11-22-05
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Entrees

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 pound extra lean ground beef
1 cup water
1 1/2 cups macaroni -- uncooked
30 ounces canned diced tomatoes (2 cans)
1 tablespoon chili powder
1/2 cup homemade Hamburger Helper Mix

Brown the meat and drain the fat. Add the remaining ingredients, cover,
and simmer 20 minutes or until macaroni is tender.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


Per serving (excluding unknown items): 1670 Calories; 81g Fat (45%
calories from fat); 106g Protein; 122g Carbohydrate; 313mg Cholesterol;
394mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 8 Starch/Bread; 12 1/2 Lean Meat; 8 1/2 Fat

NOTES : Gave mix and macaroni to Chris and Jamie for Christmas 2002.

_____
* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Ground Beef Stroganoff with Homemade Hamburger Helper Mix

Recipe By : Off the net somewhere, posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb
Schaller, 11-22-05
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Entrees

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 pound extra lean ground beef
2 cups water
1/2 cup homemade Hamburger Helper Mix
2 cups noodles -- uncooked
1/2 cup light sour cream

Brown meat and drain any fat. Add remaining ingredients except sour
cream; stir. Bring to boil, reduce heat and simmer covered for 15-20
minutes or until noodles are tender. Top with sour cream or plain
yogurt and serve immediately.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Per serving (excluding unknown items): 1392 Calories; 83g Fat (55%
calories from fat); 98g Protein; 56g Carbohydrate; 395mg Cholesterol;
359mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 3 1/2 Starch/Bread; 12 1/2 Lean Meat; 9 Fat

NOTES : Gave recipe, noodles, and mix to Jamie and Chris for Christmas
2002.

_____
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 11-19-05 - Shiksa Varnishkes.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

> In article .com>,
> "Sheldon" > wrote:
> > Kish mier en toochis aka Smooch my ass.. and while yer down there...
> >
> > Sheldon Crack
> >
>
> ooh baby....... ;-*


You are two DIRTY birds... ;--D

--
Best
Greg

Melba's Jammin' wrote:


> * Exported from MasterCook Mac *
>
> "Hamburger Helper" Mix
>
> Recipe By : Some website, posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb
> Schaller, 11-22-05

Barb, have you tried this recipe? It looks like it would be a good
homemade mix for a basket idea I have for a Christmas gift.

In article .com>,
"Gregory Morrow" > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> > In article .com>,
> > "Sheldon" > wrote:
> > > Kish mier en toochis aka Smooch my ass.. and while yer down there...
> > >
> > > Sheldon Crack
> > >
> >
> > ooh baby....... ;-*
>
>
> You are two DIRTY birds... ;--D

It's hard work, but somebody's gotta do it! ;-D

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:24:29 -0500, ~patches~ wrote:

> I think though that people need to
> know they can be identified through their IP address and that they
> cannot expect privacy when using mIRC.

An IP address does not identify a singular user. It pinpoints the
ISP. Period.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.