sarah bennett > wrote in news:4nwkf.3047$Ba6.1303
@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:
>
> I would have refused to pay for the meal, went directly to the hospital,
> and sent the bill to the restaurant. but that's just me
>

Or someone could bring in a vial of insects for a free meal

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Yee E-Mail: ayee AT mn dot rr dot com
President Home Page: http://home.mn.rr.com/andyyee
New Directions Engineering, Inc.

Godwin's Law: As a USENET thread grows, the probability of a reference
to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.00.
Corollary: When such a reference is made, it is generally
recognized that the poster has LOST the argument.

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 10:35:02 GMT, Andy Yee > wrote:


>Now here's what bothered me:
>I left the restaurant, and noticed in front that there was cart with
>wooden animal cages with mostly chickens in them; however there was
>one cage with a giant hairy rat. Suddenly my stomach didn't feel very
>good, but I didn't vomit. I know my relatives would not have ordered
>that for my mother and I, but it still bothered me!
>

There were two very popular Chinese restaurants in two differences
cities, in two different states, on the same road, but separated by
several miles between them.

When one would get just that much more popular they would circulate the
rumor that cats were found in the refrigerator and vice versa.

The rat was probably to feed the dogs which they fed to the Koreans '-)

:Hexe

--
: Thought for the journey:
I don't have a solution but I admire the problem.

Andy Yee a écrit :

> Godwin's Law: As a USENET thread grows, the probability of a reference
> to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.00.

Hate to nitpick, but the nub is "the probability of a comparison to
Hitler...", not as you suggest "the probability of a reference to
Hitler..."

> Corollary: When such a reference is made, it is generally
> recognized that the poster has LOST the argument.

That comes from someone's wish list. There is no such suggestion in
Godwin's law. It is merely an observation of human behaviour, like a
law of nature, and carries no moral consequences per se. Furthermore
it is "comparison", not "reference", otherwise it would be impossible
to speak of Hitler and Nazis in any context, for example discussions of
World War II history.

Someone loses the argument not because of Godwin's law per se but
because this is a result of ad hominem attacks. The reason an ad
hominem fails is because it is based on a logical fallacy.

Referring to Godwin, if the comparison is legitimate (e.g. the
Guomindang government's repression of the rise of communism in China
was very much like Germany's under Hitler) then it is not subject to
the law. Furthermore, it may be erroneous, but it is not stated as a
logical fallacy, ergo not an ad hominem.

However, if I suggest that you are a Nazi because you favour euthanasia
(and not youth in Asia), for example, then that would likely be such a
comparison (and possibly an ad hominem), unless you overtly stated an
admiration for HItler in which case it could stand on its own and
although you can say that Godwin applies, also observable behaviour on
your part would substantiate the assertion.

It's not black and white. Remember the old chestnut when AOL purged
all Usenet messages that contained words like breast and vagina?
Consequently any messages discussing how to cook chicken breasts and
how to treat vaginal cancer were eliminated. Silly then, silly now.

People invoke Godwin as an attempt to stifle normal conversation. In
that, they are very much like what they decry ;-)

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Charles Gifford wrote:

>
> "Elaine Parrish" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Hehehe! I can relate to those cooks! I had two guys come in one morning
> > right about 5 a.m. and they wanted what they called a Texas Omelet.
> <snip>
>
> Great story Elaine! You went out of your way for them and I admire that!
>
> Charlie
>
>
>

Thank you, Charlie.

I went with a bunch of co-workers to that lighthouse restaurant in Long
Beach, and midway through lunch the beautiful blonde waitress spilled
something in my lap. Something small, like a chili pepper or an olive.
I was wearing Levi's 501s, so I didn't particularly care, but you'd
have thought it was a tray of martinis from how she reacted.

She immediately dropped to her knees, wedged in between my legs, took a
rag and proceeded to wipe my lap off. Thorough and hard and deep, like
a shiatsu massage for the male groin. There were absolutely *no*
visible stains, but that wouldn't stop her from her task. She dabbed
and stroked and wiped as mouths dropped open in shock and envy all
around the table.

It was quite sweet of her, but totally lost on me, as I had a boyfriend
at the time.

wrote:
> [snip]
> She immediately dropped to her knees, wedged in between my legs, took a
> rag and proceeded to wipe my lap off. Thorough and hard and deep, [snip]
>
> It was quite sweet of her, but totally lost on me, as I had a boyfriend
> at the time.

As we might have guessed from your -mail isp, if not from 'thorough and
hard and deep..." ;-) -aem

On Mon 05 Dec 2005 08:18:14a, alsandor wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> Andy Yee a écrit :
>
>> Godwin's Law: As a USENET thread grows, the probability of a reference
>> to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.00.
>
> Hate to nitpick, but the nub is "the probability of a comparison to
> Hitler...", not as you suggest "the probability of a reference to
> Hitler..."
>
>> Corollary: When such a reference is made, it is generally
>> recognized that the poster has LOST the argument.
>
> That comes from someone's wish list. There is no such suggestion in
> Godwin's law. It is merely an observation of human behaviour, like a
> law of nature, and carries no moral consequences per se. Furthermore
> it is "comparison", not "reference", otherwise it would be impossible
> to speak of Hitler and Nazis in any context, for example discussions of
> World War II history.
>
> Someone loses the argument not because of Godwin's law per se but
> because this is a result of ad hominem attacks. The reason an ad
> hominem fails is because it is based on a logical fallacy.
>
> Referring to Godwin, if the comparison is legitimate (e.g. the
> Guomindang government's repression of the rise of communism in China
> was very much like Germany's under Hitler) then it is not subject to
> the law. Furthermore, it may be erroneous, but it is not stated as a
> logical fallacy, ergo not an ad hominem.
>
> However, if I suggest that you are a Nazi because you favour euthanasia
> (and not youth in Asia), for example, then that would likely be such a
> comparison (and possibly an ad hominem), unless you overtly stated an
> admiration for HItler in which case it could stand on its own and
> although you can say that Godwin applies, also observable behaviour on
> your part would substantiate the assertion.
>
> It's not black and white. Remember the old chestnut when AOL purged
> all Usenet messages that contained words like breast and vagina?
> Consequently any messages discussing how to cook chicken breasts and
> how to treat vaginal cancer were eliminated. Silly then, silly now.
>
> People invoke Godwin as an attempt to stifle normal conversation. In
> that, they are very much like what they decry ;-)

Huh? Who cares? Post something about a restaurant experience.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Nancy Young wrote:

>Honest, I was waiting for Peter Funt to come over and say we'd been had.

Wouldn't that have been Alan Funt? Just wondering...

Mike

On 5 Dec 2005, Mike wrote:

> Nancy Young wrote:
>
> >Honest, I was waiting for Peter Funt to come over and say we'd been had.
>
> Wouldn't that have been Alan Funt? Just wondering...
>
> Mike
>
>

Only if you are old.

"alsandor" > wrote in news:1133795894.599484.304000
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

<Drivel snipped> What does that have to do with restaurant experiences,
ya kook?

*PLONK*

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Yee E-Mail: ayee AT mn dot rr dot com
President Home Page: http://home.mn.rr.com/andyyee
New Directions Engineering, Inc.

Godwin's Law: As a USENET thread grows, the probability of a reference
to Hitler or Nazis approaches 1.00.
Corollary: When such a reference is made, it is generally
recognized that the poster has LOST the argument.

Me wrote:
>
> On 26 Nov 2005 16:47:14 -0800, "Bronwyn" > wrote:
>
> >We live near the beach and there is a building right on the beach that
> >houses 2 restaurants upstairs and a trendy cafe/light meals place
> >downstairs. It is a magic location where you can really impress
> >out-of-town friends! The several times I have frequented the cafe I
> >have had surly service. I go back in the vain hope things might have
> >changed.
> >The last time I had a girlfriend with me - check this out - 9.30am on a
> >weekday (i.,e. quiet) we walked in for a coffee and moved towards a
> >small table for 2 facing the water, inside the cafe. There were
> >perhaps 3 tables elsewhere in the room that were occupied. Accosted by
> >the waitress were asked if we were breakfasting. No, thanks, coffee
> >would be great. Sorry, you can't have one of these tables. You mayonly
> >sit outside on rough picnic style table setting.Polite protestations
> >had no effect.
> >The inside tables are reserved only for diners! At 9.30 on a weekday,
> >I doubt whether anyone was going to arrive for breakfast much later. I
> >wonder if the tables lay empty until a pretermined hour for lunch is
> >announced! Weekends would be quite a different proposition, however, I
> >still find the rule discriminatory.
> >We left without coffee and went to the surf club oppposite sitting at a
> >lovely table overlooking the view, and were treated with respect.
> >I sent a letter of complaint to the cafe but never received a reply.
> >I definitely will never go back. Really, tourist precinct or not, it
> >is shocking.
> >
> >Cheers
> >Bronwyn
>
> What's shocking to me is that you returned after receiving the surly
> service. What were you thinking? "Hmm... let's reward their rudeness
> with more of my hard earned money. Besides, this is a great place to
> impress out-of-town friends!!"

One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently opened BBQ
place. This was a new second restaurant in a "trendy" location for a
restaurant that had been well established for years in another location.
The new place had been open perhaps six weeks so the owner / manager
should have been paying close attention to the new staff.

At any rate, I went there with my mother for dinner and had about the
worst service I've ever had anywhere. I kept notes as I watched three
other tables that had been seated after us get served before us. I
watched as my mothers coffee cup sat empty for quite some time before I
had to catch the "waitress" and instruct her to get my mother a refill
on coffee.

This terrible service continued throughout the meal, despite the
reminder to refill the coffee and some clearly annoyed glances at the
"waitress". Any owner / manager that had been paying any attention would
have clearly seen annoyed and soon to be former customers. When it was
over I left the "waitress" a 1% tip of $0.41 (my norm is 20%) and we've
never visited this restaurant again.

Another place I had an overall ok experience, but it started out bumpy
with what could have been a problem. There were three of us in two
vehicles going to a place for breakfast at about 8:30am. Two of us
arrived first while the third made a brief pit stop to pickup
cigarettes. The first two of us were in line to be seated and when we
indicated that there were three of us, the hostess said she couldn't
seat us until we were all there. It this point I peeked around from my
now-ex-semi-girlfriend and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now
we'll go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled and
proceeded to seat us. Of course I got a load of crap from the
now-ex-semi-girlfriend for "terrifying" the hostess.

Pete C.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:08:35 GMT, "Pete C." >
replied:
[Snip-O'-Matic employed]
> One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently
> opened BBQ place.

Would you mind mentioning them by name?

[snip bad experience at BBQ place]
> Any owner / manager that had been paying any
> attention would have clearly seen annoyed and
> soon to be former customers.

I hope you wrote A Letter detailing your excruciatingly bad
experience?

> Another place I had an overall ok experience, but it
> started out bumpy with what could have been a problem.
> There were three of us in two vehicles going to a place
> for breakfast at about 8:30am. Two of us arrived first
> while the third made a brief pit stop to pickup cigarettes.
> The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> and proceeded to seat us.

Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
would just stand there demurely.

This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
are tables available.

The Ranger

The Ranger wrote:
>
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:08:35 GMT, "Pete C." >
> replied:
> [Snip-O'-Matic employed]
> > One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently
> > opened BBQ place.
>
> Would you mind mentioning them by name?

Little Mark's Big BBQ in Avon, CT. Their place in Vernon, CT had always
been good.

>
> [snip bad experience at BBQ place]
> > Any owner / manager that had been paying any
> > attention would have clearly seen annoyed and
> > soon to be former customers.
>
> I hope you wrote A Letter detailing your excruciatingly bad
> experience?

Couldn't be bothered, just crossed that location off my list.

>
> > Another place I had an overall ok experience, but it
> > started out bumpy with what could have been a problem.
> > There were three of us in two vehicles going to a place
> > for breakfast at about 8:30am. Two of us arrived first
> > while the third made a brief pit stop to pickup cigarettes.
> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> > and proceeded to seat us.
>
> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
> would just stand there demurely.

This was also in restaurant Mecca USA a.k.a Addison, TX where a 50' walk
from their door in just about any direction would put us at the door of
one of their competitors.

>
> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
> are tables available.

As I explained to the now-ex-semi-girlfriend, I draw a solid line
between business and personal interactions and I have a zero tolerance
policy for bad customer service. It is a regular policy on mine to
blacklist businesses for six months for the first infraction, one year
for the second, etc.

These days there are few monopolies, I can go across the street and get
the exact same product and at about the same price from a competitor, so
customer service is the only way a company can earn my business.

Pete C.

>
> The Ranger

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 02:21:35 GMT, "Pete C." >
replied:
> The Ranger wrote:
> > On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:08:35 GMT, "Pete C." > replied:
> > [Snip-O'-Matic employed]
> > > One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently
> > > opened BBQ place.
> > >
> > Would you mind mentioning them by name?
> >
> Little Mark's Big BBQ in Avon, CT. Their place in Vernon, CT
> had always been good.

> > [snip bad experience at BBQ place]
> > > Any owner / manager that had been paying any
> > > attention would have clearly seen annoyed and
> > > soon to be former customers.
> > >
> > I hope you wrote A Letter detailing your excruciatingly bad
> > experience?
> >
> Couldn't be bothered, just crossed that location off my list.

How is the manager/owner to learn from their gross negligence or
dereliction of duty if you don't tell them? When a customer is SO
annoyed that they refuse to set foot back in their business, it
warrants A Letter. (Ditto the positive experience.) By providing
them this valuable service, you are allowing them the opportunity
to change. By not going back _and_ not telling anyone, you can't
expect that unobservant owner/manager to fix it; they don't know
-- until that last customer doesn't come back.

> > > Another place I had an overall ok experience, but it
> > > started out bumpy with what could have been a problem.
> > > There were three of us in two vehicles going to a place
> > > for breakfast at about 8:30am. Two of us arrived first
> > > while the third made a brief pit stop to pickup cigarettes.
> > > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> > > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> > > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> > > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> > > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> > > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> > > and proceeded to seat us.
> > >
> > Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most
> > sheeple would just stand there demurely.
> >
> This was also in restaurant Mecca USA a.k.a Addison, TX
> where a 50' walk from their door in just about any direction
> would put us at the door of one of their competitors.

That does add an interesting level of power to your stance...

> > This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially
> > when there are tables available.
> >
> As I explained to the now-ex-semi-girlfriend, I draw a
> solid line between business and personal interactions
> and I have a zero tolerance policy for bad customer
> service. It is a regular policy on mine to blacklist businesses
> for six months for the first infraction, one year for
> the second, etc.

I guess the BBQ joint jumped several levels then?

> These days there are few monopolies, I can go across
> the street and get the exact same product and at about
> the same price from a competitor, so customer service
> is the only way a company can earn my business.

There is enough empirical evidence to prove otherwise -- at least
in the US.

The Ranger

In article >,
The Ranger > wrote:


> How is the manager/owner to learn from their gross negligence or
> dereliction of duty if you don't tell them? When a customer is SO
> annoyed that they refuse to set foot back in their business, it
> warrants A Letter.

Not my job. Just not my job. The manager/owner needs to be watching to
see what is happening. They need to *ask* people how things are going.
Somebody needs to be watching the bottom line. When the business is
going belly-up, somebody needs to figure out why.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

Dan Abel wrote:
>
> In article >,
> The Ranger > wrote:
>
> > How is the manager/owner to learn from their gross negligence or
> > dereliction of duty if you don't tell them? When a customer is SO
> > annoyed that they refuse to set foot back in their business, it
> > warrants A Letter.
>
> Not my job. Just not my job. The manager/owner needs to be watching to
> see what is happening. They need to *ask* people how things are going.
> Somebody needs to be watching the bottom line. When the business is
> going belly-up, somebody needs to figure out why.
>
> --
> Dan Abel
>
> Petaluma, California, USA

Bingo! You've got it exactly right, and in all of the best restaurants
I've been to the manager regularly does the rounds to check with the
customers and make sure everything is good. This isn't just fancy /
expensive restaurants either, I've been to many smaller average
restaurants that have similarly good service and similarly attentive
managers.

In the case of the BBQ place I had problems with, they had been open at
that location about six weeks so the manager certainly should have been
paying attention.

Pete C.

On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:05:32 -0800, Dan Abel >
replied:
>Not my job. Just not my job.

Not much is your job nowadays, Dan. You've become a regular ol'
lump of jelly, you have.

> he manager/owner needs to be watching to see what
> is happening. They need to *ask* people how things
> are going. Somebody needs to be watching the bottom
> line. When the business is going belly-up, somebody
> needs to figure out why.

Some owners/managers do make regular walks through the dining room
checking on guests. And even then, annoyed and upset customers
won't talk to him/her. "How's the food tonight?" And, "Is
everything as you hoped?" are answered with mumbles, eyes-averted,
"Great. Just fine."

A Letter is a tool for opening that closed communication in a non
threatening, non confrontational manner. Since you won't see that
as beneficial, continue being the milk toast you've retired into.

The Ranger

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 03:44:43 GMT, "Pete C." >
replied:
> In the case of the BBQ place I had problems with, they had been open at
> that location about six weeks so the manager certainly should have been
> paying attention.

It's been my [limited] experience that BBQ places are not run like
"normal" restaurants; more like hobbyists sharing their art. If
they make money, great; the hobby pays for itself. The level of
professionalism you were expecting doesn't lend itself to those
businesses.

The Ranger

>> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
>> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
>> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
>> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
>> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
>> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
>> > and proceeded to seat us.
>>
>> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
>> would just stand there demurely.

>>
>> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
>> are tables available.

Plenty of tables? Sure go ahead and seat them. Make the customer
comfortable.

Very crowded and people waiting? Sorry, but please wait until your party
arrives. It comes down to how many $ per hour the tables can turn over.
Having two people sipping on a cup of coffee for 30 minutes waiting for the
last person cuts into production and forces others to wait.

"Edwin Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
>>> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
>>> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
>>> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
>>> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
>>> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
>>> > and proceeded to seat us.
>>>
>>> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
>>> would just stand there demurely.
>
>>>
>>> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
>>> are tables available.
>
> Plenty of tables? Sure go ahead and seat them. Make the customer
> comfortable.

At a restaurant between Dalkeith and Jedburgh (can't remember the name)
we decided to have lunch

We walked in to find the dining room empty except for a long table at
one side full with jolly bikers and a small mezzanine floor for smokers.

Not wishing to sit in the (empty) smokers area we went to sit at a table
for four, there not being a table for two.

The waitress came over and said 'I am sorry we only have free tables in
the smoking area' I told her I didn't want to sit in the smoking area
and would prefer to stay where we were. We were told we couldn't sit
there! When I asked why she said 'a party of four might come in'!!!!
This was in a large empty dining room.

She proceeded to ask the bikers if we could fit in at the end of their
long table. I don't have a single thing against bikers but..... we
left!

O

--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 19:05:32 -0800, Dan Abel >
> replied:
>>Not my job. Just not my job.
>
> Not much is your job nowadays, Dan. You've become a regular ol'
> lump of jelly, you have.
>
>> he manager/owner needs to be watching to see what
>> is happening. They need to *ask* people how things
>> are going. Somebody needs to be watching the bottom
>> line. When the business is going belly-up, somebody
>> needs to figure out why.
>
> Some owners/managers do make regular walks through the dining room
> checking on guests. And even then, annoyed and upset customers
> won't talk to him/her. "How's the food tonight?" And, "Is
> everything as you hoped?" are answered with mumbles, eyes-averted,
> "Great. Just fine."

Nooooooooooooooooo. They might take it away and bring me
a new one(((((( I have seen on tv and had it confirmed by a chef what
they do to the food of someone who complains. I might complain on the
way out but not while they have a chance to adulterate my food

O

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 02:21:35 GMT, "Pete C." >
> replied:
>> The Ranger wrote:
>> > On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 17:08:35 GMT, "Pete C." >
>> > replied:
>> > [Snip-O'-Matic employed]
>> > > One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently
>> > > opened BBQ place.
>> > >
>> > Would you mind mentioning them by name?
>> >
>> Little Mark's Big BBQ in Avon, CT. Their place in Vernon, CT
>> had always been good.
>
>> > [snip bad experience at BBQ place]
>> > > Any owner / manager that had been paying any
>> > > attention would have clearly seen annoyed and
>> > > soon to be former customers.
>> > >
>> > I hope you wrote A Letter detailing your excruciatingly bad
>> > experience?
>> >
>> Couldn't be bothered, just crossed that location off my list.
>
> How is the manager/owner to learn from their gross negligence or
> dereliction of duty if you don't tell them? When a customer is SO
> annoyed that they refuse to set foot back in their business, it
> warrants A Letter. (Ditto the positive experience.) By providing
> them this valuable service, you are allowing them the opportunity
> to change. By not going back _and_ not telling anyone, you can't
> expect that unobservant owner/manager to fix it; they don't know
> -- until that last customer doesn't come back.

To be honest Ranger I don't write a letter either. If their customer
service is so bad, they deserve to feel it in reduced takings. It is
not
my job to correct their bad attitude

And now, on a happier note, I wish you a very Merry Christmas or
Hannukah or whatever, to you, your wife and the daughter units)

I look forward to reading about their exploits in the future

Ophelia (in cold and frosty Scotland)



--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

Ophelia wrote:

> Nooooooooooooooooo. They might take it away and bring me a new
> one(((((( I have seen on tv and had it confirmed by a chef what they do
> to the food of someone who complains. I might complain on the way out
> but not while they have a chance to adulterate my food

JimLane denies that any such thing ever happens. Check his posts August 10
last year.

Bob

"Bob Terwilliger" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>> Nooooooooooooooooo. They might take it away and bring me a new
>> one(((((( I have seen on tv and had it confirmed by a chef what
>> they do
>> to the food of someone who complains. I might complain on the way
>> out
>> but not while they have a chance to adulterate my food
>
> JimLane denies that any such thing ever happens. Check his posts
> August 10
> last year.

It might not happen in US (and how does he know about every chef anyway)
but it happens in UK (and no I can't speak for every chef either but I
am am not willing to take that chance)

--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 GMT, "Ophelia" >
replied:
> Ranger wrote:
> > Some owners/managers do make regular walks through the dining room
> > checking on guests. And even then, annoyed and upset customers
> > won't talk to him/her. "How's the food tonight?" And, "Is
> > everything as you hoped?" are answered with mumbles, eyes-averted,
> > "Great. Just fine."
> >
> Nooooooooooooooooo. They might take it away and bring me
> a new one(((((( I have seen on tv and had it confirmed by a
> chef what they do to the food of someone who complains. I
> might complain on the way out but not while they have a chance
> to adulterate my food

I'm sure there are people that adulterate food sent back by
complaining customers. I'm sure these people are/were "caught" on
video adding non-essential condiments to the food in an attempt to
get even. I'm sure your friend has seen someone do it during his
way up the service ladder. I will contend that no one with the
rank of hash-cook or higher (especially 'chef') will adulterate
food sent back.

I will continue to write my Letters and use them as a positive
feedback resource mechanism for when I am pleased, and displeased.

BTW: Peter didn't say anything on the way out, either. Just walked
and never went back -- even though he liked the original place.
How's that helping the owner expand and retain the loyalty of his
customers?

The Ranger

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 GMT, "Ophelia" >
replied:
>At a restaurant between Dalkeith and Jedburgh (can't remember the name)
>we decided to have lunch
>
>We walked in to find the dining room empty except for a long table at
>one side full with jolly bikers and a small mezzanine floor for smokers.
>
>Not wishing to sit in the (empty) smokers area we went to sit at a table
>for four, there not being a table for two.
>
>The waitress came over and said 'I am sorry we only have free tables in
>the smoking area' I told her I didn't want to sit in the smoking area
>and would prefer to stay where we were. We were told we couldn't sit
>there! When I asked why she said 'a party of four might come in'!!!!
>This was in a large empty dining room.
>
>She proceeded to ask the bikers if we could fit in at the end of their
>long table. I don't have a single thing against bikers but..... we
>left!

She didn't want to wait any other tables and this was her answer.
You obliged her whim and left. <shrug> I would've left, too, even
though I would've probably already been talking to the bikers.
(Some of the BEST tour information can be had by talking to many
of these clubbers!)

I would've written A Letter the moment I got home, though,
detailing the problem. The high likelihood that I would never be
back in that town wouldn't bother me. The fact that the manager
didn't know what that server was doing is easy enough to
understand, though.

The Ranger

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 GMT, "Ophelia" >
> replied:
>>At a restaurant between Dalkeith and Jedburgh (can't remember the
>>name)
>>we decided to have lunch
>>
>>We walked in to find the dining room empty except for a long table at
>>one side full with jolly bikers and a small mezzanine floor for
>>smokers.
>>
>>Not wishing to sit in the (empty) smokers area we went to sit at a
>>table
>>for four, there not being a table for two.
>>
>>The waitress came over and said 'I am sorry we only have free tables
>>in
>>the smoking area' I told her I didn't want to sit in the smoking
>>area
>>and would prefer to stay where we were. We were told we couldn't sit
>>there! When I asked why she said 'a party of four might come in'!!!!
>>This was in a large empty dining room.
>>
>>She proceeded to ask the bikers if we could fit in at the end of their
>>long table. I don't have a single thing against bikers but..... we
>>left!
>
> She didn't want to wait any other tables and this was her answer.
> You obliged her whim and left. <shrug> I would've left, too, even
> though I would've probably already been talking to the bikers.
> (Some of the BEST tour information can be had by talking to many
> of these clubbers!)
>
> I would've written A Letter the moment I got home, though,
> detailing the problem. The high likelihood that I would never be
> back in that town wouldn't bother me. The fact that the manager
> didn't know what that server was doing is easy enough to
> understand, though.

Maybe but I can't think the manager wouldn't know she was turning custom
away. As I said earlier, it is not my job to sort out their rubbish
service.

Now, back to the really interesting posts about you and your daughter
units..................)

O who is sure you are having a wonderful day with them)

My daughter and grandson (with boss were unable, this year to come
home for Christmas (from Germany) This morning I have had loads of pics
of grandson opening his presents (thank heavens for technology) and
tearful phone calls from daugher I have cooked most of her Christmas
lunch over the phone)

--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 GMT, "Ophelia" >
replied:
>To be honest Ranger I don't write a letter either. If their customer
>service is so bad, they deserve to feel it in reduced takings. It is
>not my job to correct their bad attitude

There's gotta be a reason you wasted your hard-earned cash (or
credit) there, though! If you tell the guy on the way out, as you
mentioned in a prior post, great. Otherwise, how're they supposed
to know what to fix?

>And now, on a happier note, I wish you a very Merry Christmas or
>Hannukah or whatever, to you, your wife and the daughter units)

I'd celebrate every holiday, if possible, since that would give me
ample opportunity to sample the different foods associated with
each! We celebrate the mainstream holidays, Christmas today, so I
thank you with my heart and wish you well for the coming years.
(Even if you won't write A Letter. <EG>)

>I look forward to reading about their exploits in the future

With the opportunities they each make available, count on it!

>Ophelia (in cold and frosty Scotland)

That's a very Charles Dicken's visual.

The Ranger

"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 GMT, "Ophelia" >
> replied:
>>To be honest Ranger I don't write a letter either. If their customer
>>service is so bad, they deserve to feel it in reduced takings. It is
>>not my job to correct their bad attitude
>
> There's gotta be a reason you wasted your hard-earned cash (or
> credit) there, though! If you tell the guy on the way out, as you
> mentioned in a prior post, great. Otherwise, how're they supposed
> to know what to fix?
>
>>And now, on a happier note, I wish you a very Merry Christmas or
>>Hannukah or whatever, to you, your wife and the daughter units)
>
> I'd celebrate every holiday, if possible, since that would give me
> ample opportunity to sample the different foods associated with
> each! We celebrate the mainstream holidays, Christmas today, so I
> thank you with my heart and wish you well for the coming years.
> (Even if you won't write A Letter. <EG>)

LOL

>
>>I look forward to reading about their exploits in the future
>
> With the opportunities they each make available, count on it!
>
>>Ophelia (in cold and frosty Scotland)
>
> That's a very Charles Dicken's visual.

but no snow))))

O


--
http://www.qpat.co.uk/

The Ranger wrote:
>
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 03:44:43 GMT, "Pete C." >
> replied:
> > In the case of the BBQ place I had problems with, they had been open at
> > that location about six weeks so the manager certainly should have been
> > paying attention.
>
> It's been my [limited] experience that BBQ places are not run like
> "normal" restaurants; more like hobbyists sharing their art. If
> they make money, great; the hobby pays for itself. The level of
> professionalism you were expecting doesn't lend itself to those
> businesses.
>
> The Ranger

That would apply to "real" BBQ joints in southern states, not to "Yankee
BBQ" joints in the Northeast. Remember also that the same owner(s) have
had a place in another town for years which has always been fine. Part
of the problem I think is that the owner(s) / manager underestimated
just how worthless the PYV hell spawn were that they were hiring from
the local area.

Pete C.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> >> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> >> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> >> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> >> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> >> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> >> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> >> > and proceeded to seat us.
> >>
> >> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
> >> would just stand there demurely.
>
> >>
> >> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
> >> are tables available.
>
> Plenty of tables? Sure go ahead and seat them. Make the customer
> comfortable.
>
> Very crowded and people waiting? Sorry, but please wait until your party
> arrives. It comes down to how many $ per hour the tables can turn over.
> Having two people sipping on a cup of coffee for 30 minutes waiting for the
> last person cuts into production and forces others to wait.

Nope, not a valid excuse. If you have an issue with seating capacity
resolve it, i.e. expand, do not ever annoy your customers with the not
seating until the full party is there crap. This only makes you look
greedy and give the impression that you think the customers are a
nuisance and you just want to take their money and get them the hell
out.

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >
> > >> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> > >> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> > >> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> > >> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> > >> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> > >> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> > >> > and proceeded to seat us.
> > >>
> > >> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
> > >> would just stand there demurely.
> >
> > >>
> > >> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
> > >> are tables available.
> >
> > Plenty of tables? Sure go ahead and seat them. Make the customer
> > comfortable.
> >
> > Very crowded and people waiting? Sorry, but please wait until your party
> > arrives. It comes down to how many $ per hour the tables can turn over.
> > Having two people sipping on a cup of coffee for 30 minutes waiting for the
> > last person cuts into production and forces others to wait.
>
> Nope, not a valid excuse. If you have an issue with seating capacity
> resolve it, i.e. expand, do not ever annoy your customers with the not
> seating until the full party is there crap.

Hmm, the world is all about you. What makes you think a restaurant
should give up a table that seats six when there are really only two...
why, are you going to pay triple your tab if the other four don't
show? You're obviously one of those coniving selfish *******s who
calls to reserve a table for six when it's really only the two of you
just so you'll be more assured of getting accomodated and at a larger
table... restaurants are wise to your ilk. That's why restaurants
don't typically seat, and rightfully so, until the full party is
present. Even if you just walk in with no reservations, they not going
to seat two at a table that accomodates six until all six of you are
present. Most will seat yoose at the bar so you can buy drinks and
will call you when your party arrives... they'll even bring those
drinks you were in the amidst of to your table... but they're not
obligated to hold that table more than 10-15 minutes if your pals don't
arrive. And restaurants don't care that self-centered jerks like you
never return, in fact they'd prefer it.

Rob > wrote:
> Irrespective of the location, what's been your funniest or worst
> restaurant experience/s you've had so far - as in the food and / or
> service being terrible, or the food and service being fine and very
> good, but something else amusing occurred.

Not as a patron, but as a worker:

I was the bar manager for a Japanese place for several years,
back in the days when credit cards were kind of rare and people
tended to pay by cash or check - and "check guarantee cards"
were required by many establishments. Ours was one of these.

One evening a guy brought his wife and daughter in for dinner,
and apparently missed or ignored the sign specifying the check
guarantee card requirement. At the end of the meal, naturally,
there was some difficulty - he didn't want to pay cash, and the
manager didn't want to take his check. They went round and
round about this for some time, with him and his wife getting
more and more exercised about it. Finally, he reared back on
his heels, pointed his finger at the (by now three) guys arguing
with him, and said...

Wait for it...

"YOU ****ING JAPS SHOULD HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING AT HIROSHIMA!"

For several beats, you could have heard a napkin drop. Then the
assistant manager took a step towards the guy, the guy next to
him put an arm out to restrain him, and the manager just pointed
at the door. The cashier rushed out of her station and snapped
his picture with a poloroid camera we kept on hand for birthday
celebrations, for our "never ever ever serve this guy" bulletin
board, and the little family left.

Nice memory for the daughter, who appeared to be about twelve, I
guess.

As a patron? Nothing really comes to mind, but last week I was
visiting my brother in Portland, OR, and - as I'd been so looking
forward to - we went to the Bridgeport Brewery, one of my favorite
beer joints in the known universe. It was closed for remodelling!
But a sign referred us to their "ale house" in a different part of
the city, so we went there. There was none of the Bridgeport's
excellent rustic pizza or simple sandwiches to be had, though - the
food was all yuppified and really pretty awful, and the service was
terrible. My theory is that they've been sold to a party or parties
who're looking for a more "upscale" clientele, and that the Bridge-
port I know and love has gone the way of all things. (sob)

--
Mark Shaw
================================================== ======================
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny....'" - Isaac Asimov

Pete C. > wrote:

>One of the worst experiences I've had was at a recently opened BBQ
>place. This was a new second restaurant in a "trendy" location for a
>restaurant that had been well established for years in another location.
>The new place had been open perhaps six weeks so the owner / manager
>should have been paying close attention to the new staff.

Care to identify the establishment for us?

Steve

Mark Shaw wrote:
> Rob > wrote:
> > Irrespective of the location, what's been your funniest or worst
> > restaurant experience/s you've had so far - as in the food and / or
> > service being terrible, or the food and service being fine and very
> > good, but something else amusing occurred.
>
> Not as a patron, but as a worker:
>
> I was the bar manager for a Japanese place for several years,
> back in the days when credit cards were kind of rare and _people
> tended to pay by cash or check_ - and "check guarantee cards"
> were required by many establishments. Ours was one of these.
>
> One evening a guy brought his wife and daughter in for dinner,
> and apparently missed or ignored the sign specifying the check
> guarantee card requirement.

Restaurant patrons are not required to know how to read... and even if
they can read they are not required to notice signs, really, legally.

> At the end of the meal, naturally,
> there was some difficulty - he didn't want to pay cash, and the
> manager didn't want to take his check. They went round and
> round about this for some time, with him and his wife getting
> more and more exercised about it. Finally, he reared back on
> his heels, pointed his finger at the (by now three) guys arguing
> with him, and said...
>
> Wait for it...
>
> "YOU ****ING JAPS SHOULD HAVE LEARNED SOMETHING AT HIROSHIMA!"

What's wrong with that... it's absolutely the truth... those ****ing
japs pulled a Sneak Attack with that fercocktah sniper sign
bullshit.... musta thought they're back in nagasaki. If they didn't
accept checks except under special circumstances it was THEIR
obligation to point out said fact *prior* to service... you said it
yourself, "people tended to pay by cash _or check_" but more
importantly they waited until "the end of the meal", they were
attempting to shangai the poor *******. Was it me that slanty eyed
yellow mother****er threatened with kamakazi pictures he would have had
a hell of a time pulling that nikon telephoto out of his bony butt...
he'd be wishing that nikon was a friggin' diakon! <G>

Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. . . .

Sheldon wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
> > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> > >
> > > >> > The first two of us were in line to be seated and when
> > > >> > we indicated that there were three of us, the hostess
> > > >> > said she couldn't seat us until we were all there. It this
> > > >> > point I peeked around from my now-ex-semi-girlfriend
> > > >> > and said very plainly "If you don't seat us now we'll
> > > >> > go somewhere else". The hostess looked a bit startled
> > > >> > and proceeded to seat us.
> > > >>
> > > >> Good for you for speaking up and getting seated. Most sheeple
> > > >> would just stand there demurely.
> > >
> > > >>
> > > >> This type of seating policy drives me nuts, especially when there
> > > >> are tables available.
> > >
> > > Plenty of tables? Sure go ahead and seat them. Make the customer
> > > comfortable.
> > >
> > > Very crowded and people waiting? Sorry, but please wait until your party
> > > arrives. It comes down to how many $ per hour the tables can turn over.
> > > Having two people sipping on a cup of coffee for 30 minutes waiting for the
> > > last person cuts into production and forces others to wait.
> >
> > Nope, not a valid excuse. If you have an issue with seating capacity
> > resolve it, i.e. expand, do not ever annoy your customers with the not
> > seating until the full party is there crap.
>
> Hmm, the world is all about you.

Business is all about the customer. Without customers you have no
business.

>What makes you think a restaurant
> should give up a table that seats six when there are really only two...

First come, first serve. Smart restaurants insure that their seating
arrangements are modular to avoid just that issue. Even without that, if
there is a party of two here how that want's to be seated, you do not
keep them waiting just because a party of four might show up for the
larger table. Seating a party that came in after a party that you have
waiting will guarantee you some horrendous reviews.

> why, are you going to pay triple your tab if the other four don't
> show?

I expect to be seated promptly when there is a table available. I do not
care if my party is smaller than the nominal capacity of the table, or
if only half of my party is currently present. Neither is an acceptable
excuse for not seating us.

> You're obviously one of those coniving selfish *******s who
> calls to reserve a table for six when it's really only the two of you
> just so you'll be more assured of getting accomodated and at a larger
> table... restaurants are wise to your ilk. That's why restaurants
> don't typically seat, and rightfully so, until the full party is
> present.

When I make reservations I make them for the expected size of the party.
If there is a change in the size of the party I do my best to contact
the restaurant promptly and notify them of the change. I do this for
both increases in party size *and* decreases. I also call to cancel if
necessary. I am conscientious to the restaurants needs and I expect them
to be conscientious to my needs.

> Even if you just walk in with no reservations, they not going
> to seat two at a table that accomodates six until all six of you are
> present.

I've been to plenty of restaurants with good service that will seat you
at whatever table is available rather than make you wait. If a
restaurant tries to not seat me when two of us walk in and say we need a
table for three, then they are effectively insinuating that I am either
lying about the third person or they are implying that they are only
interested in my money and want me out as quickly as possible. Neither
case is acceptable under any circumstances.

> Most will seat yoose at the bar so you can buy drinks and
> will call you when your party arrives...

Perhaps I'm not interested in waiting in a noisy crowded bar when I
could be seated at the available table and have half my order in
already. In fact the restaurant in question didn't even have a bar.

> they'll even bring those
> drinks you were in the amidst of to your table... but they're not
> obligated to hold that table more than 10-15 minutes if your pals don't
> arrive.

They are obligated to provide service to the customer that is in their
establishment *now*. Whether another person arrives or not is not their
concern. There are customers present and they need to be accommodated
*period*.

> And restaurants don't care that self-centered jerks like you
> never return, in fact they'd prefer it.

Actually, they love it when I return since I always tip well for good
service and will readily tip more for exceptional service. My norms are
10% for buffets (they still bring drinks and clear plates), 20% for
normal good full service, and I've been known to do 50% on more than one
occasion for exceptional service (like when they have five people
servicing your table for two).

Given the fact that I will also tend to drag many people to restaurants
I like, particularly obscure ones that many people would never find, my
recommendations carry some value.

Pete C.

"Pete C." > wrote in message
...

>
> Nope, not a valid excuse. If you have an issue with seating capacity
> resolve it, i.e. expand, do not ever annoy your customers with the not
> seating until the full party is there crap. This only makes you look
> greedy and give the impression that you think the customers are a
> nuisance and you just want to take their money and get them the hell
> out.
>
> Pete C.

The purpose of a restaurant is to make money. Food just happens to be the
method.

If you were a cab driver and were flagged over by two guys that gave you
that same story, would you sit and wait for the third party and not run the
meter while other fares were standing by that you can take instead? Of
course not.

Turning over tables is figured into the price. They may have two or three
seatings a night and if you just sit and take up a table, money is lost.

Expand? They should spend $10,000 to $100,000 to add more seats so you can
sit and wait for a friend? Where does the money come from to pay for it?
It has to come from customers that pay. The trick is to make you feel as
though you are important, but turn the table over and over as needed. Off
peak times when there is plenty of capacity, sure, sit as long as you'd
like. During the busy time, they cannot afford to do that. If you have a
reservation for 7:30, arrive on time, would you want to wait because the
party ahead of you lingered an extra 45 minutes past the norm?

Sorry, no sensible business person can allow valuable tables to be taken up
as a waiting area. They must make a profit in order to give you the service
you expect. Tuesday at 4 PM, sure, never on Saturday night at 7.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Mark Shaw" > wrote in message

> Then the
> assistant manager took a step towards the guy, the guy next to
> him put an arm out to restrain him, and the manager just pointed
> at the door.

So instead of taking his check, the manager gave him a free meal?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>
> "Pete C." > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >
> > Nope, not a valid excuse. If you have an issue with seating capacity
> > resolve it, i.e. expand, do not ever annoy your customers with the not
> > seating until the full party is there crap. This only makes you look
> > greedy and give the impression that you think the customers are a
> > nuisance and you just want to take their money and get them the hell
> > out.
> >
> > Pete C.
>
> The purpose of a restaurant is to make money. Food just happens to be the
> method.

The purpose of a restaurant, or any business is to service the customer.
If you don't take care of the customer, you don't make money and you go
out of business.

>
> If you were a cab driver and were flagged over by two guys that gave you
> that same story, would you sit and wait for the third party and not run the
> meter while other fares were standing by that you can take instead? Of
> course not.

You would happily sit and wait and run the meter, just as would happen
when you seat my partial party at your restaurant and we begin ordering.

>
> Turning over tables is figured into the price. They may have two or three
> seatings a night and if you just sit and take up a table, money is lost.

I never just sit and take up a table. If I'm seated I'm ordering. I'm
never going to just sit there waiting for someone to arrive, I will
always be ordering drinks and appetizers at the bare minimum.

>
> Expand? They should spend $10,000 to $100,000 to add more seats so you can
> sit and wait for a friend? Where does the money come from to pay for it?

If they have a problem with having enough seating for the volume of
customers, then yes, they do indeed need to expand. As for the money, it
comes from those additional customers that you can accommodate rather
than having them leave.

> It has to come from customers that pay. The trick is to make you feel as
> though you are important, but turn the table over and over as needed.

News flash - those customers you just seated will be paying, in fact if
they are waiting for that extra person, they are more likely to order
additional drinks and appetizers which have some of your best profit
margins.

> Off
> peak times when there is plenty of capacity, sure, sit as long as you'd
> like. During the busy time, they cannot afford to do that. If you have a
> reservation for 7:30, arrive on time, would you want to wait because the
> party ahead of you lingered an extra 45 minutes past the norm?

First off, the incident I mentioned was breakfast at 8:30 am on a
weekday. Breakfast parties tend to linger far less than dinner parties
and rarely have reservations unless it's a large party. Secondly, those
places where people tend to linger longer also tend to be more expensive
and the prices should factor in the expected longer table turnover.

>
> Sorry, no sensible business person can allow valuable tables to be taken up
> as a waiting area. They must make a profit in order to give you the service
> you expect. Tuesday at 4 PM, sure, never on Saturday night at 7.

I can't say that I've ever taken up a table at a restaurant as a
"waiting area", if I'm seated, I'm ordering. I don't think I've ever
noticed anyone else doing this either. The only waiting I've ever seen
is people waiting for their order to come out. I think this whole notion
that the restaurant is loosing money if they seat a partial party is
just plain wrong.

Any delays that have caused my party to occupy a table for a longer
period have come exclusively from delays in servicing my table. If the
wait staff is not there promptly to take my order or follow up order
(drinks, appetizers, dinner, dessert) they are the cause of the delay,
not me.

Pete C.

> --
> Ed
> http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/

"Pete C." > wrote in message
>
> The purpose of a restaurant, or any business is to service the customer.
> If you don't take care of the customer, you don't make money and you go
> out of business.

We agree; as I said, it is all about money. In a restaurant, food and
service is the medium, money is the goal.l It has to be.


>
> You would happily sit and wait and run the meter, just as would happen
> when you seat my partial party at your restaurant and we begin ordering.
>
> I never just sit and take up a table. If I'm seated I'm ordering. I'm
> never going to just sit there waiting for someone to arrive, I will
> always be ordering drinks and appetizers at the bare minimum.

Perhaps, but the staff does not know that. They do know that 98% will sit
and sip a 50¢ cup of coffee while others will wait and wait while you take
up valuable space.


>
> If they have a problem with having enough seating for the volume of
> customers, then yes, they do indeed need to expand. As for the money, it
> comes from those additional customers that you can accommodate rather
> than having them leave.

> News flash - those customers you just seated will be paying, in fact if
> they are waiting for that extra person, they are more likely to order
> additional drinks and appetizers which have some of your best profit
> margins.
>

News Flash. They must have the custoemrs. They cannot afford to expand
because 6 people a year have to wait too long. They cannot afford to expand
to cover a peak time of three hours a week if the seats are empty the rest
of the time. It is a business decision that must be considered before
making the investment. No return, no investment. Every business does that
before buying new equipment or renting new space.



> First off, the incident I mentioned was breakfast at 8:30 am on a
> weekday. Breakfast parties tend to linger far less than dinner parties
> and rarely have reservations unless it's a large party. Secondly, those
> places where people tend to linger longer also tend to be more expensive
> and the prices should factor in the expected longer table turnover.

As I stated, it is not something that should be invoked 100% of the time.
Judgement has to enter the picture. Crowded? Sorry, you have to wait.
Plenty of tables? Sure, relax while you wait for your other guests.



> I can't say that I've ever taken up a table at a restaurant as a
> "waiting area", if I'm seated, I'm ordering. I don't think I've ever
> noticed anyone else doing this either. The only waiting I've ever seen
> is people waiting for their order to come out. I think this whole notion
> that the restaurant is loosing money if they seat a partial party is
> just plain wrong.

No, it is just plain right in most cases. You may be an exception ; good for
you. Most are not. The host/hostess does not know this by just looking at
the customer, but they do know what the majority will do and act
accordingly.

>
> Any delays that have caused my party to occupy a table for a longer
> period have come exclusively from delays in servicing my table. If the
> wait staff is not there promptly to take my order or follow up order
> (drinks, appetizers, dinner, dessert) they are the cause of the delay,
> not me.

That is just as serious a problem. The manager should take steps to
eliminate or minimize that happening. Again, they can only have so much
cooking space and at peak times, there will be delays. Every business has
problems of either under or over capacity at times. Manufacturing,
airlines, turkey growers, hospitals, try to accommodate everyone, but at
times, just have to stop. It is also more profitable to turn away a couple
of customers than to over build and go broke for a few times a year.
Contrary to the old "customer is always right", it is sometimes best to
eliminate an unprofitable, unruly, unwhatever customer and take care of the
rest with better service.
--
Ed
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome/