In article >,
"Daniel W. Rouse Jr." > wrote:

> "Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Dan Abel > wrote:
> >
> > > In article >,
> > > Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun 01 Jan 2006 08:57:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Stan
> > > > Horwitz?
> > >
> > > > > minutes later, meatballs are bubbling away, so I turned off the
> heat. I
> > > > > realized I was late picking up a friend from a nearby train station,
> so
> > > > > I asked my sister to check on the meatballs
> > >
> > >
> > > Sounds like your sister didn't do a very good job of checking on them.
> >
> > Since I thought the heat elements were turned off and I told her so
> > before I drove over to pick up my friend, she had no reason to doubt me
> > ... until the burned smell started to waft through her kitchen!
> >
> [snip...]
>
> How old is the electric range?
>
> The reason I ask is because I have a Hotpoint electric range that has what I
> consider two different safety features.
>
> 1. The dial has to be pushed in to move from the OFF position to any heat
> position.
>
> 2. A red light on the dial console labelled Surface Unit lights up when any
> of the burners is in any heat position.
>
> As such, turning a burner off results in an audible click as the dial pops
> out and locks in the OFF position, and the Surface Unit light turns off when
> all burners are in the OFF position. By extension, if any dial doesn't click
> out and lock, it's not fully in the OFF position, and the Surface Unit light
> will remain lit.

That describes my sister's stove. The range was there when she moved it,
but it looks pretty modern; lots of buttons and things. The red
indicator light on her range is in a bad position; its easily blocked by
pots on the rare burner, so I did not notice it.

sarah bennett wrote:
>
> Dan Abel wrote:
>
> >
> > I want one of each. That's my dream kitchen. My brother has a fancy
> > kitchen. It has a 5 burner gas rangetop and two wall electric ovens,
> > one a convection oven.
> >
>
> that's a setup I'd love. I hate having the oven below the cooktop, and I
> too, hate electric ranges with the fire of a thousand nuns
>

I rather like the semi-fancy dual fuel Kenmore Elite that came with my
house. 5 gas (LP) burners up top and an electric convection oven below
with a smaller electric side oven. Gives you the best of both.

Pete C.

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> > wrote:
>
> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
> >Wertz?
>
> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to
> >> cook with.
> >
> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are definitely
> >hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual range.
>
> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic"
> kitchen equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.

You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
some shagbark hickory bark for smoke flavor. Nice Porterhouse steaks.
Then you build the fire back up for socializing, and to assure great
coals for the morning.
Someone wakes up and rebuilds the fire (often me), a few folks, mostly
the males, start getting coffee ready on a Coleman stove, which later
gets used for bacon and eggs, and after rebuilding the fire to take off
the chill, coals are moved to the side for a restored cooking fire.
Hickory bark is again employed to cook brats, more steak, or other
meats. BY this time the others are waking up, happy to be greeted by
hot coffee beverage with heavy cream, possibly with Splenda or sugar as
their preference might dictate. Oh, the guys are probably naked except
for footwear, necessary on the gravel.
Eggs are cooked to order, some basted, some scrambled liberally with
butter. There might be potatoes, baked by the fire the night before,
that are chopped and browned in the bacon fat. There might be
avocadoes to slice, and very likely chiles roasted either the night
before, or in the morning. Everybody eventually wakes up and gets fed.
Clothing is optional, except that no one goes in the water wearing
anything. It's a matter of comfort.
Even though most people are nude, it's anything but a sexually charged
situation. Quite the contrary.
I'm lucky. Not because I *get to look at naked females*, but because I
get to be primitively human with people who are smart and are being
relaxed about their bodies and their camping experience. Hedonism does
not necessarily imply impropiety. We eat well, and drink well, and our
state of dress is no more likely to lead to inappropriste expressions
of sexual desire than if we were all wearing winter parkas. I winter
camp with these same people, and the social relations are just the
same.

>
> -sw

--Bryan

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:


> do), you usually get a discount from the electric utility. Electricity is
> a given in any home, while gas is definitely an option. If I had both, my
> overall costs would be greater.

Electricity isn't a given. I like gas, so I haven't checked, but we
aren't wired for an electric stove, and I don't believe we have the
capacity for it. We have 100 amp service, and the 100 amps are pretty
well all used. This house was built for gas.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
BoboBonobo?

>
> Steve Wertz wrote:
>> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
>> >Wertz?
>>
>> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
>> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to cook
>> >> with.
>> >
>> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are
>> >definitely hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual
>> >range.
>>
>> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
>> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic" kitchen
>> equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.
>
> You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and

< snipped lord knows what >

And this has to do with electric ranges how...?

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.

On Mon 02 Jan 2006 11:21:55p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dan Abel?

> In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>
>> do), you usually get a discount from the electric utility. Electricity
>> is a given in any home, while gas is definitely an option. If I had
>> both, my overall costs would be greater.
>
> Electricity isn't a given. I like gas, so I haven't checked, but we
> aren't wired for an electric stove, and I don't believe we have the
> capacity for it. We have 100 amp service, and the 100 amps are pretty
> well all used. This house was built for gas.

What I meant was that almost all homes have electric power today, at least
for lighting, small appliances, etc. Many homes are not necessarily fitted
out for gas. A service panel upgrade to 200 amps is not usually that
costly, and it's a one time expense. I believe it's cheaper than having
gas piped to a house that doesn't already have it. In any event, in many
parts of the US it's cheaper to run an all electric house than to pay for
both electric and gas. This is mostly due to discounts from the electric
company, as well as load balancing devices. I'm not suggesting that you
convert from gas to electric...we all have our preferences. Since I prefer
electric, it makes since to avoid gas for all purposes because for me it's
also cheaper than paying for both. I have lived in houses that were
equipped with both electricity and gas, but I never had the gas turned on.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.

In article >,
"Dee Randall" > wrote:

> > I've had the oppportunity to use a Viking as compared to the crappy
> > apartment stove we have now.
> >
> > I loved it. Constant and even heat, didn't suffer from anemia, and was a
> > full 36" model.
> >
> > Total cost: $800 - which is solidly in the infield of my ballpark. It's
> > just that I don't want to haul it when we move.
>
> A viking for $800? or am I mis-reading?


I think he must have dropped a zero off the end.

:-)

Of course, maybe that was just a 1950 price.

:-)

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

In article >,
Stan Horwitz > wrote:

> In article >,
> Dan Abel > wrote:


> > I want one of each. That's my dream kitchen. My brother has a fancy
> > kitchen. It has a 5 burner gas rangetop and two wall electric ovens,
> > one a convection oven.
>
> Does your brother actually use all that stuff?

Yes. He's retired (at 50!) and basically a househusband with two little
kids. He loves to cook.

He didn't have that kitchen installed, though, it just came with the
house.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

In article >,
EastneyEnder > wrote:


> I have just bought a metal griddle thing though, which fits over the two
> front electric hotplates... for cooking drop scones, pancakes or to use as a
> griddle for eggs, bacon etc....
>
> Now I wonder.... if I left that on there all the time, and put pans on
> top.... might it dissipate the heat on the lowest setting.... enough not to
> burn stuff?


They sell pretty cheap little metal things that you just put on top of
the burner when you want less heat. I would recommend that you invest
in one or two of those.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 11:21:55p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dan Abel?

> > Electricity isn't a given. I like gas, so I haven't checked, but we
> > aren't wired for an electric stove, and I don't believe we have the
> > capacity for it. We have 100 amp service, and the 100 amps are pretty
> > well all used. This house was built for gas.
>
> What I meant was that almost all homes have electric power today, at least
> for lighting, small appliances, etc. Many homes are not necessarily fitted
> out for gas. A service panel upgrade to 200 amps is not usually that
> costly, and it's a one time expense. I believe it's cheaper than having
> gas piped to a house that doesn't already have it.

Of course, if you move to an existing house that isn't wired for an
electric stove, and it doesn't have gas, just how the heck did the
previous occupants cook their food?

:-)

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

In article >,
Wayne Boatwright > wrote:

> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> BoboBonobo?

> > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
>
> < snipped lord knows what >
>
> And this has to do with electric ranges how...?

Did you really expect them to drag an electric range out there? And
where would they plug it in?

It was a discussion about an alternate way to cook food.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA

Dan Abel wrote:
> In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
> > On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> > BoboBonobo?
>
> > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
> >
> > < snipped lord knows what >
> >
> > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
>
> Did you really expect them to drag an electric range out there? And
> where would they plug it in?
>
> It was a discussion about an alternate way to cook food.
>
That went off on a tangent. By this time of year I'm really missing
summer.

> --
> Dan Abel
>
> Petaluma, California, USA

--Bryan

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> BoboBonobo?
>
> >
> > Steve Wertz wrote:
> >> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
> >> >Wertz?
> >>
> >> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
> >> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to cook
> >> >> with.
> >> >
> >> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are
> >> >definitely hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual
> >> >range.
> >>
> >> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
> >> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic" kitchen
> >> equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.
> >
> > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
>
> < snipped lord knows what >
>
> And this has to do with electric ranges how...?

If you fry bacon in the nude on a camp fire you get your ankles
spattered.

Cam

Dan Abel wrote:
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
> > > > BoboBonobo boomed:
>
> > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
> >
> > < snipped lord knows what >
> >
> > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
>
> Did you really expect them to drag an electric range out there? And
> where would they plug it in?
>
> It was a discussion about an alternate way to cook food.

Actually it's about the negative aspects of an electric range... I
don't think they have electric in the Ozarks... they're still
contemplating the virtues of indoor plumbing, and 14 year old boys
sharing a bed with their momma.

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 01:00:16a, Dan Abel wrote in rec.food.cooking:

> In article >,
> Wayne Boatwright > wrote:
>
>> On Mon 02 Jan 2006 11:21:55p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dan
>> Abel?
>
>> > Electricity isn't a given. I like gas, so I haven't checked, but we
>> > aren't wired for an electric stove, and I don't believe we have the
>> > capacity for it. We have 100 amp service, and the 100 amps are
>> > pretty well all used. This house was built for gas.
>>
>> What I meant was that almost all homes have electric power today, at
>> least for lighting, small appliances, etc. Many homes are not
>> necessarily fitted out for gas. A service panel upgrade to 200 amps is
>> not usually that costly, and it's a one time expense. I believe it's
>> cheaper than having gas piped to a house that doesn't already have it.
>
> Of course, if you move to an existing house that isn't wired for an
> electric stove, and it doesn't have gas, just how the heck did the
> previous occupants cook their food?
>
>:-)
>

Bonfire, fireplace?


--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

Cam wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> > On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> > BoboBonobo?
> >
> > >
> > > Steve Wertz wrote:
> > >> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> > >> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
> > >> >Wertz?
> > >>
> > >> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
> > >> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to cook
> > >> >> with.
> > >> >
> > >> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are
> > >> >definitely hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual
> > >> >range.
> > >>
> > >> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
> > >> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic" kitchen
> > >> equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.
> > >
> > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
> >
> > < snipped lord knows what >
> >
> > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
>
> If you fry bacon in the nude on a camp fire you get your ankles
> spattered.

Frying bacon nude on a stovetop can be hazardous as well.
>
> Cam

--Bryan

Sheldon wrote:
> Dan Abel wrote:
> > > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >
> > > > > BoboBonobo boomed:
> >
> > > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> > > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
> > >
> > > < snipped lord knows what >
> > >
> > > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
> >
> > Did you really expect them to drag an electric range out there? And
> > where would they plug it in?
> >
> > It was a discussion about an alternate way to cook food.
>
> Actually it's about the negative aspects of an electric range... I
> don't think they have electric in the Ozarks... they're still
> contemplating the virtues of indoor plumbing, and 14 year old boys
> sharing a bed with their momma.

All joking aside, there are people out there in the sparsely populated
areas of the Ozarks who believe in government "New World Order"
conspiracy stuff. They believe that there are "black helicopters" who
are monitoring them, and that the black helicopters are from the United
Nations. The Nature Conservancy is involved too, and their property
will eventually be confiscated, and they'll be put into camps so the
area around Ozark National Scenic Riverways can be turned into a
"Bio-zone" or some such nonsense.

In reality, there actually ARE black helicopters that fly around there.
They are DEA, and they're looking for marijuana cultivation. Do a
search on "Ozark National Scenic Riverways." It's a very beautiful
area.

--Bryan

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> Wayne, do you use this technique: When you want to get your pot a
> boilin', then you want the pot ingredients to die down to a simmer, do you
> set the pot off the stove while the burner temperature is lowering, or do
> you have another lower temperature burner waiting to set it on for
> simmering. This is my biggest complaint about cooking with electric and
> it drives me to a frenzy.
> Thanks,
> Dee Dee


Since the burner response isn't instant turn it down just before it hits
boiling. Or just set the dial so it goes just above the simmer point and
never really hits boil.

Use those slower response times to your advantage!! It took me years to get
used to waiting until food was actually done before shutting the burner off
the first time I changed to gas.

Happily I'm back to an electric stove.

Ms P, who also hates gas

On 3 Jan 2006 06:39:45 -0800, "BOBOBOnoBO®" >
wrote:

>
>Cam wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> > On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>> > BoboBonobo?
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Steve Wertz wrote:
>> > >> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
>> > >> >Wertz?
>> > >>
>> > >> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
>> > >> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to cook
>> > >> >> with.
>> > >> >
>> > >> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are
>> > >> >definitely hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual
>> > >> >range.
>> > >>
>> > >> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
>> > >> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic" kitchen
>> > >> equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.
>> > >
>> > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
>> > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coals and
>> >
>> > < snipped lord knows what >
>> >
>> > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
>>
>> If you fry bacon in the nude on a camp fire you get your ankles
>> spattered.
>
>Frying bacon nude on a stovetop can be hazardous as well.

Rule of punk #237 - when cooking whilst in the nude and/or soaked in
lighter fluid: always, always *grill* your bacon under a moderate
heat.

Rule of punk #238 - stop, drop and roll is for faggots.
--
"Interviewing Avril Lavigne is like being hit over the head
with a shovel - an unpleasant experience, which leaves you
feeling dazed and hoping it never happens again."

-- Belfast Telegraph


np: Eddie And The Hot Rods - All I Need Is Money

I'm not stupid.

Dav wrote:
> On 3 Jan 2006 06:39:45 -0800, "BOBOBOnoBO®" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Cam wrote:
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >> > On Mon 02 Jan 2006 08:42:57p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
> >> > BoboBonobo?
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Steve Wertz wrote:
> >> > >> On 3 Jan 2006 02:44:45 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> >> > >> > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >On Mon 02 Jan 2006 05:26:52p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Steve
> >> > >> >Wertz?
> >> > >>
> >> > >> >> Elements under glass are sometimes an exception. That's why I
> >> > >> >> noted it. They can be red and still not produce heat enough to cook
> >> > >> >> with.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >When the elements under the glass of my range glow read they are
> >> > >> >definitely hot enough to boil water. It must depend on the individual
> >> > >> >range.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> My brother has one of those and it glows, but produces very little
> >> > >> heat for some reason. He's got all the fancy "fuzzy logic" kitchen
> >> > >> equipment. It's just "fuzzy" with no logic behind it.
> >> > >
> >> > > You know what's fun? Being out on a gravel bar on an August or
> >> > > September evening in the Missouri Ozarks, with a good bed of coalsand
> >> >
> >> > < snipped lord knows what >
> >> >
> >> > And this has to do with electric ranges how...?
> >>
> >> If you fry bacon in the nude on a camp fire you get your ankles
> >> spattered.
> >
> >Frying bacon nude on a stovetop can be hazardous as well.
>
> Rule of punk #237 - when cooking whilst in the nude and/or soaked in
> lighter fluid: always, always *grill* your bacon under a moderate
> heat.
>
> Rule of punk #238 - stop, drop and roll is for faggots.
>
I may fry bacon naked, but I do not fry chicken naked. In fact, I
should wear gloves.

A hint: tape down newspaper in front of the range before frying, esp.
chicken. I'm like sooo Heloise!

--Bryan

BOBOBOnoBO® wrote:
>
> A hint: tape down newspaper in front of the range before frying, esp.
> chicken. I'm like sooo Heloise!

Patent infringement!!!

Why waste tape... I rummage through the laundry for a used bath
towel... dago doily!

In article >, says...
>
> Thanks so much fyi. Are you able to use (if you have them) cast iron
> skillets or dutch oven; if so, do you have to pick them up to move them, or
> can you scoot them to one side of a ceramic cooktop element.
> Dee Dee
>

Yes, I use cast iron pots as well as ceramic ones as well as thick bottomed
stainless.
The only thing that is a problem with scooting things is grit, really. If
you've a grain of sand between pot and glass you'll get a scratch. I'm careful
now, if I've had the pot anywhere near where I've peeled the potatoes I wipe
the bottom before putting it on the cooktop.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

"Peter Huebner" > wrote in message
t...
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Thanks so much fyi. Are you able to use (if you have them) cast iron
>> skillets or dutch oven; if so, do you have to pick them up to move them,
>> or
>> can you scoot them to one side of a ceramic cooktop element.
>> Dee Dee
>>
>
> Yes, I use cast iron pots as well as ceramic ones as well as thick
> bottomed
> stainless.
> The only thing that is a problem with scooting things is grit, really. If
> you've a grain of sand between pot and glass you'll get a scratch. I'm
> careful
> now, if I've had the pot anywhere near where I've peeled the potatoes I
> wipe
> the bottom before putting it on the cooktop.
>
> -P.

Thanks P.
I'm in good sted/stead, as I wipe the bottom of pots before putting them on
my nasty elements, too. I think I would be tempted to scoot them, rather
than ask DH to lift and place. I guess it would take a little getting used
to to PLACE the pots directly in the circle every time. When I was 'larnin'
to color' I never could keep inside the lines while all the others were
doing it regularly.
Dee Dee

On Wed 04 Jan 2006 11:11:54a, Dee Randall wrote in rec.food.cooking:

>
> "Peter Huebner" > wrote in message
> t...
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> Thanks so much fyi. Are you able to use (if you have them) cast iron
>>> skillets or dutch oven; if so, do you have to pick them up to move
>>> them, or can you scoot them to one side of a ceramic cooktop element.
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>>
>> Yes, I use cast iron pots as well as ceramic ones as well as thick
>> bottomed stainless. The only thing that is a problem with scooting
>> things is grit, really. If you've a grain of sand between pot and glass
>> you'll get a scratch. I'm careful now, if I've had the pot anywhere
>> near where I've peeled the potatoes I wipe the bottom before putting
>> it on the cooktop.
>>
>> -P.
>
> Thanks P.
> I'm in good sted/stead, as I wipe the bottom of pots before putting them
> on my nasty elements, too. I think I would be tempted to scoot them,
> rather than ask DH to lift and place. I guess it would take a little
> getting used to to PLACE the pots directly in the circle every time.
> When I was 'larnin' to color' I never could keep inside the lines while
> all the others were doing it regularly.
> Dee Dee

That begs the question, "Runs with scissors"?


--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

>>
>> Thanks P.
>> I'm in good sted/stead, as I wipe the bottom of pots before putting them
>> on my nasty elements, too. I think I would be tempted to scoot them,
>> rather than ask DH to lift and place. I guess it would take a little
>> getting used to to PLACE the pots directly in the circle every time.
>> When I was 'larnin' to color' I never could keep inside the lines while
>> all the others were doing it regularly.
>> Dee Dee
>
> That begs the question, "Runs with scissors"?
>
Hee hee -- where do you get these one-liners?
You can't imagine what the different scenarios this sentence conjures up in
my mind, but no --
No running with scissors!
Dee Dee

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> About a year ago, my sister and her boyfriend (now husband) moved into a
> home with an electric range in their kitchen. So, last night (New Years
> Eve), I was up until around 1:30am making food for my dad's birthday
> party, which my sister and I made at her house tonight.
>
> I cook with gas appliances; always have. So, the meatballs turned out
> great. I tried a few for breakfast. Delicious! This afternoon, I loaded
> the pot of meatballs into my car along with numerous other food items
> and drove to Jan and Rob's house. I got there right on time.
>
> I proceeded to put the pot of meatballs on my sister's range to warm
> them up. I cranked up her electric range to about 75% of maximum. A few
> minutes later, meatballs are bubbling away, so I turned off the heat. I
> realized I was late picking up a friend from a nearby train station, so
> I asked my sister to check on the meatballs, then I drove over to pick
> up my friend. I also did the same thing with the pot of homemade mac &
> cheese I made this morning.
>
> My sister calls me on my cell phone just as I arrived at the train
> station. Jan told me the meatballs are incinerated! I asked Jan to taste
> one. She does. Disgusting. While I was looking for my friend at the
> train station, Jan and Rob tried to wash off the meatballs, thinking it
> was the sauce that was burnt. No go. Fortunately, the train station is
> adjacent to a nice supermarket. My friend Jen and I went into the
> supermarket and I picked up three of those roasted chickens, and a roll
> of paper towels (that my sister requested).
>
> I got back to Jan and Rob's a few minutes later and Jan showed me that I
> must have not turned off the burner, as I thought I had. It was still
> on, but not on the high setting. I had no idea because the red color of
> the burner element went off, so I thought it was reasonably cool. If it
> was gas, I could have easily seen that the burner was not off.
> Fortunately, I did not make that mistake with the pot of mac & cheese,
> so it came out fine and it was a big hit at the party.
>
> My sister consoled me and she said it took her a while to get used to
> her electric range. Rob, the philosophy teacher (literally), also tried
> to console me, by explaining that the outcome was the same either way,
> in that we all got to enjoy some great food and nice company and we all
> had a nice time. But I would have much preferred not to have to spend an
> extra $20 on dinner (which my sister thanked me for), and I would have
> preferred those meatballs go into the guests' tummies rather than a
> garbage disposal. I will deal with the burnt pot tomorrow!
>
> Did I mention, I hate electric ranges? Whomever thought up the idea of
> an electric range out to be slaughtered and forced to eat my burned
> meatballs!


I grew up using gas so it was a huge switch when we married and electric
was all that was available. In all these years we have bought 2 new
electric ranges with the newsest one being a real fancy Jenn Air. I'm
now used to electric for the majority of my cooking but use natural gas
for the bbq element, have extensively used propane and naptha fuel, as
well as wood. Barring any electric problems though, I use electric. So
to me it doesn't really matter all that much although it would have been
nice if the salesman said our Jenn Air also came in dual fuel - gas for
the burners and electric for the oven - BEFORE we bought our new range!
Anyway, I'm more than happy with our purchase. Once you get used to
electric, it really isn't all that bad. In your case, I would have
loaded the meatballs into a slow cooker, set it on low and then more
than likely been pleased with the results without leaving the stove on.

wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:57:52 -0500, Stan Horwitz >
> wrote:
>
> You never see an electric cooktop in a restaurant kitchen. They are
> always gas.
>
> These chefs know what's best - so there's no argument.
>
>


True but you learn to cook with what is available and in some places
especially for those renting, you just can't get gas, period. So you
learn to cook on electric. I was lucky since I learned to cook on gas
growing up but have always had electric since being married for my main
cooking BUT I also learned to cook on propane, naptha fuel, and wood.
The chefs know what is best in terms of economics since running a
restaurant involves not only good food but good economics. In most
cases, gas is cheaper and provides more consistant results but that
doesn't mean you can't get the same results from other fuel sources. I
could easily cook you a steak on wood that would do any other fuel
source in hands down. As a cook, being versatile is a very good thing

Ken Davey wrote:

> sf wrote:
>
>>On 2 Jan 2006 05:17:49 +0100, Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I'm sorry about your burned meatballs, and I understand your issues.
>>>
>>> Did I ever mention, that I hate gas ranges and all other gas
>>>appliances? If my home had a gas range, I would never ever cook
>>>until it had been replaced with an electric range.
>>>
>>> There are devotees to both fuels. Live and let live.
>>
>>I love electric and distrust gas too. The only thing I think gas is
>>good for is great percolated coffee.
>
>
> Sorry bud, there is no such thing as great' percolated coffee.
> And - my vote is for gas.
>
> Ken.
>
>
DH would like to beg to differ since he prefers percolated coffee made
with a circa 1950's percolator and fresh ground coffee beans. It truly
is great coffee to be savoured to the last drop

limey wrote:

> "sf" wrote:
>
>>I love electric and distrust gas too. The only thing I think gas is
>>good for is great percolated coffee.
>>--
>
>
> I've used electric ranges most of my life except for a stay in an apartment
> when we were first married.
> For safety, gas smells (from additives)! Up until the last three years,
> I've always used electric ranges with conventional burners but must admit
> I'd like to ditch my smoothtop, even though it's easy to clean. I find it
> harder to regulate the heat than with any other electric range I've had. (so
> there - here starts a whole new thread on smoothtop ranges.)
>
> Dora
>
>
Dora, this is really good to know. We just bought a Jenn Air that takes
the element cartridges. This means I can have smooth top, radiant heat,
or conventional coil as well as the grill and other goodies. We debated
as to getting the smooth top since our model came with the grill but
elements optional. I do a lot of canning so thought perhaps the
smoothtop would not handle the weight of the heavier pots but I didn't
think of the heat regulation. We opted for the conventional coil
elements and I have the canning element on order. Along with the grill
cartridge, it does end up being a very nice stove We can always pop
in a smoothtop cartridge if we decide we want it but DD bought smooth
top and said you have to use a special cleaner. I'm not sure I want to
get into that either.

biig wrote:

>
> Peter Huebner wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>>says...
>>
>>>On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:57:52 -0500, Stan Horwitz >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>You never see an electric cooktop in a restaurant kitchen. They are
>>>always gas.
>>>
>>>These chefs know what's best - so there's no argument.
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, with professional grade equipment. Alas, I've two friends in whose
>>kitchen I HATE to cook, because they have gas tops. If there's the slightest
>>breeze outside you have to close the windows, because you can no longer get the
>>water to boil on their stove. At another friend's place the crossdraft blows
>>the gas flame out alltogether.
>
>
> The only gas / propane stove I have ever used has been in our rv's
> we've had over the years. Breezes are definitely a problem. I have
> electric at home and always have. ....Sharon

Sharon, I used propane in our RV for years without a problem but maybe
that was because of the layout that breezes didn't bother the flame. We
have our outdoor grill hooked directly to our natural gas line. We are
in an area where breezes are often a problem and they have extinguished
the flame on the side burner of the bbq but not the bbq itself. We have
a Coleman naptha fuel stove, you know the kind you have to pump up?
That thing will work in a tornado!

Nancy Young wrote:

> "biig" > wrote
>
>
>>Peter Huebner wrote:
>
>
>>>Yeah, with professional grade equipment. Alas, I've two friends in whose
>>>kitchen I HATE to cook, because they have gas tops. If there's the
>>>slightest
>>>breeze outside you have to close the windows, because you can no longer
>>>get the
>>>water to boil on their stove. At another friend's place the crossdraft
>>>blows
>>>the gas flame out alltogether.
>>
>> The only gas / propane stove I have ever used has been in our rv's
>>we've had over the years. Breezes are definitely a problem. I have
>>electric at home and always have. ....Sharon
>
>
> I can't imagine this ... all the years I've had gas stoves, only had
> an electric stove once and that was in my ex's apartment ... I
> have *never* had the gas flame blow out. Wouldn't even cross
> my mind it could happen.
>
> Wonder why that is?
>
> nancy
>
>
Nancy, the burners in RVs run on propane which tends to be a little
****ier than the natural gas pumped into your house. Sometimes the
design of the RV means the stove is right by a door or window that
creates a really strong air current causing the flame to go out. Our RV
stove had to be lit by a matches or a flame thower with no electonic
ignition. I hated lighting the RV oven as the thingy where you had to
put the match in was almost at the back. No electronic ignition at all.
So I think really, it is the overall design of RV stoves that causes
the flame to go out not the fuel itself. I could be wrong on this
though and maybe newer models don't have this problem. OTOH, our RV had
a fridge that operated on electric or propane with electronic ignition
so that you could have the fridge running while travelling. Go figure,
they figured out how to keep the fridge running but not the stove.

BTW, same problem on a boat that we've experienced so far. Those stoves
are nice but only when the wind isn't blowing. Perhaps the next boat

Bill wrote:

> On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 22:57:52 -0500, Stan Horwitz >
> wrote:
>
>
>>About a year ago, my sister and her boyfriend (now husband) moved into a
>>home with an electric range in their kitchen. So, last night (New Years
>>Eve), I was up until around 1:30am making food for my dad's birthday
>>party, which my sister and I made at her house tonight.
>>
>>I cook with gas appliances; always have. So, the meatballs turned out
>>great. I tried a few for breakfast. Delicious! This afternoon, I loaded
>>the pot of meatballs into my car along with numerous other food items
>>and drove to Jan and Rob's house. I got there right on time.
>>
>>I proceeded to put the pot of meatballs on my sister's range to warm
>>them up. I cranked up her electric range to about 75% of maximum. A few
>>minutes later, meatballs are bubbling away, so I turned off the heat. I
>>realized I was late picking up a friend from a nearby train station, so
>>I asked my sister to check on the meatballs, then I drove over to pick
>>up my friend. I also did the same thing with the pot of homemade mac &
>>cheese I made this morning.
>>
>>My sister calls me on my cell phone just as I arrived at the train
>>station. Jan told me the meatballs are incinerated! I asked Jan to taste
>>one. She does. Disgusting. While I was looking for my friend at the
>>train station, Jan and Rob tried to wash off the meatballs, thinking it
>>was the sauce that was burnt. No go. Fortunately, the train station is
>>adjacent to a nice supermarket. My friend Jen and I went into the
>>supermarket and I picked up three of those roasted chickens, and a roll
>>of paper towels (that my sister requested).
>>
>>I got back to Jan and Rob's a few minutes later and Jan showed me that I
>>must have not turned off the burner, as I thought I had. It was still
>>on, but not on the high setting. I had no idea because the red color of
>>the burner element went off, so I thought it was reasonably cool. If it
>>was gas, I could have easily seen that the burner was not off.
>>Fortunately, I did not make that mistake with the pot of mac & cheese,
>>so it came out fine and it was a big hit at the party.
>>
>>My sister consoled me and she said it took her a while to get used to
>>her electric range. Rob, the philosophy teacher (literally), also tried
>>to console me, by explaining that the outcome was the same either way,
>>in that we all got to enjoy some great food and nice company and we all
>>had a nice time. But I would have much preferred not to have to spend an
>>extra $20 on dinner (which my sister thanked me for), and I would have
>>preferred those meatballs go into the guests' tummies rather than a
>>garbage disposal. I will deal with the burnt pot tomorrow!
>>
>>Did I mention, I hate electric ranges? Whomever thought up the idea of
>>an electric range out to be slaughtered and forced to eat my burned
>>meatballs!
>
>
> can somebody tell me what it is about this stove that makes all the
> rich people want to have one in their kitchen?
> http://www.vikingrange.com/
>
> I wonder what it does to make it cost four times as much a regular
> stoves?
>
> Bill
>
>

Damn, that is one really nice stove. We just bought a Jenn Air
downdraft slide in. I'm getting used to the idea that I'm not going to
get a Rachel Ray stove since DH said it just won't fit In
comparison, with the Viking you get legs so you can easily clean under
the unit. I like that. It has true convection like the Jenn Air but as
far as I can see only two oven racks not three like the Jenn Air and it
does lack the flexibility of mixing and matching element cartridges. It
only comes in stainless steel which really only works for some kitchens.
It would look odd in my kitchen. Still it is really a nice looking
stove! My pet peeve with these fancier stoves is there is no storage
drawer! Also, many of them do not have a auxillary appliance outlet.
I'd be curious as to how much the Viking costs. We got ours greatly
reduced but had to buy element cartridges - this is normal as not
supplied with the unit other than the grill cartridge - and I'm buying
the canning element as well as the half oven shelf. I like the mix and
match feature. I like the warranty which seems to be better than the
Viking. I like the customer service. What I don't like is Jenn Air is
the top of the line of Maytag but if needing parts you can't order
directly from Maytag if shipping to Canada. If you go through the
Canadian dealers, the prices for parts are almost doubled then there is
the exchange factor. We have found repairclinic.com to be very good
with almost next day service at a fraction of Canadian prices.

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> Ken Davey wrote:

>> Sorry bud, there is no such thing as great' percolated coffee.
>> And - my vote is for gas.
>>
>> Ken.
>>
>>
> DH would like to beg to differ since he prefers percolated coffee made
> with a circa 1950's percolator and fresh ground coffee beans. It truly is
> great coffee to be savoured to the last drop

I thought that too when the only other option was instant. Once I'd tasted
drip coffee there was no going back to percolated.

Gabby

Curly Sue wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 11:06:50 -0500, "Nancy Young" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"biig" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>Peter Huebner wrote:
>>
>>>>Yeah, with professional grade equipment. Alas, I've two friends in whose
>>>>kitchen I HATE to cook, because they have gas tops. If there's the
>>>>slightest
>>>>breeze outside you have to close the windows, because you can no longer
>>>>get the
>>>>water to boil on their stove. At another friend's place the crossdraft
>>>>blows
>>>>the gas flame out alltogether.
>>>
>>> The only gas / propane stove I have ever used has been in our rv's
>>>we've had over the years. Breezes are definitely a problem. I have
>>>electric at home and always have. ....Sharon
>>
>>I can't imagine this ... all the years I've had gas stoves, only had
>>an electric stove once and that was in my ex's apartment ... I
>>have *never* had the gas flame blow out. Wouldn't even cross
>>my mind it could happen.
>>
>>Wonder why that is?
>
>
> Because they are in an RV. Plus, they are cooking with an RV stove.

Ok, the brand name to look for in RV appliances is Dometic. Second to
that is Nordic but I'm not sure if that is for fridges only. We had to
replace the fridge in our RV. It cost us $800 US about 7 years ago.
Both the fridges and stoves are bloody expensive!

>
> I've never had problems with gas flames blowing out either. But I've
> never had a kitchen with that kind of breeze. Hopefully they are not
> talking about such a draft in the winter, but instead open windows in
> mild weather. It would have to be a particular configuration, where a
> strong air current blows across the stove or in a small area where the
> breezes create significant turbulence. I don't have openable windows

Yep it is in the design of the RV in the first place. The stove is
often placed very close to the main entrance opening itself up to
breezes. Then they tend to put a window over the stove! It just isn't
a good combo.

> in my kitchen, but if I did, if the breeze was so strong as to blow
> out the flame, I'd close the windows while cooking anyway because it
> would blow other stuff (flour, herbs) around. My kitchen door is on
> the same wall as the stove so breezes do not blow across the stove.
>
> Plus, there are stoves and there are stoves. Just like old electric
> coils heat unevenly with hot spots, a gas stove without good
> maintenance, eg. out of adjustment (poor air/gas mix), conceivably
> could have problems in various situations. If you've ever used a
> bunsen burner, you know that you can have a strong pointed flame or a
> weak wavy flame (that will go out when someone walks by) depending on
> how you adjust it.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:

> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:49:36 -0500, Bill >
> wrote:
>
>
>>can somebody tell me what it is about this stove that makes all the
>>rich people want to have one in their kitchen?
>>http://www.vikingrange.com/
>>
>>I wonder what it does to make it cost four times as much a regular
>>stoves?
>
>
> I have to say they are attractive.
>
> Other than that, my guess is that rich people start looking at the top
> end and don't worry about value. They never make it down to our price
> range. They probably buy cars and watches the same way.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

No Sue, it doesn't have to do with *richness*, it has to do with desires
and determination. We basically knew what we wanted just we weren't
quite planning on buying it so soon. We did our research too so knew
what features were of value to us. We just bought a Jenn Air which by
many standards means money, at least that is the impression we are
getting from some dealers. From our perspective it meant value. We
could get a self clean Jenn Air with 3 oven racks and burner flexibility
for a fraction of what it should have cost only because we were at the
right place at the right time. Now I could tell you about vehicles
since DH is awesome at getting great deasl and refuses to ever buy a new
vehicle yet if I told you what vehicles we drove you would likely pass
judgement. See getting something really nice like our stove for a
fraction of the cost is what makes it special. It does pay to be frugal
As far as watches, I'm still using the watch that goes with my
custom made charm bracelet - I made most of the charms myself

Dee Randall wrote:

>>Ignorance is a big issue when folks have cooking failures when cooking on
>>something unfamiliar. What gets me is that they blame the equipment
>>rather
>>than their ignorance of how to use it. I can effectively cook on either
>>gas or electric and occasionally cook on friends' gas ranges without a
>>problem. I simply don't like to cook with gas and would consistently
>>refuse to have it in my home.
>>
>>--
>>Wayne Boatwright *¿*
>
>
>
> Based on your opinion, I'm going to re-think my issues with electric
> cooking. I've not yet cooked with the flat tops, though I hope to get a new
> stove this spring. I'm still in the dark about these stoves. But with some
> research I hope to make a proper decision.
> Dee Dee
>
>
With proper research you should be able to find a range that meets your
needs. I'm more than happy with our purchase. I like the flexibility
that I can mix and match so if I want smooth top I can have it easily as
well as having coils as well as having the grill, etc. But this isn't
for everyone.

Dee Randall wrote:

> "Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Mon 02 Jan 2006 10:40:16a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it notbob?
>>
>>
>>>On 2006-01-02, Stan Horwitz > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Did I mention, I hate electric ranges? Whomever thought up the idea of
>>>>an electric range out to be slaughtered and forced to eat my burned
>>>>meatballs!
>>>
>>>Ya' gotta be smarter than the tool.
>>>
>>>nb
>>>
>>
>>It's usually operator ignorance that causes problems.
>>
>>--
>>Wayne Boatwright *¿*
>
>
> Wayne, do you use this technique: When you want to get your pot a boilin',
> then you want the pot ingredients to die down to a simmer, do you set the
> pot off the stove while the burner temperature is lowering, or do you have
> another lower temperature burner waiting to set it on for simmering. This
> is my biggest complaint about cooking with electric and it drives me to a
> frenzy.
> Thanks,
> Dee Dee
>
>
Hey Dee, not Wayne but yes I use these techniques for pressure cooking
and canning something I've done on an electric stove for ages.

Gabby wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ken Davey wrote:
>
>
>>>Sorry bud, there is no such thing as great' percolated coffee.
>>>And - my vote is for gas.
>>>
>>>Ken.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>DH would like to beg to differ since he prefers percolated coffee made
>>with a circa 1950's percolator and fresh ground coffee beans. It truly is
>>great coffee to be savoured to the last drop
>
>
> I thought that too when the only other option was instant. Once I'd tasted
> drip coffee there was no going back to percolated.
>
> Gabby
>
>

We've had drip but DH still goes for the percolated. Now we have
percolated and the pod style. He had pod today and said it was ok
better than instant but not as good as percolated. He's rather stuck in
in ways sometimes. I like the perc coffee especially using fresh ground
beans.

On Fri, 06 Jan 2006 19:13:08 -0500, ~patches~
> wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 11:49:36 -0500, Bill >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>can somebody tell me what it is about this stove that makes all the
>>>rich people want to have one in their kitchen?
>>>http://www.vikingrange.com/
>>>
>>>I wonder what it does to make it cost four times as much a regular
>>>stoves?
>>
>>
>> I have to say they are attractive.
>>
>> Other than that, my guess is that rich people start looking at the top
>> end and don't worry about value. They never make it down to our price
>> range. They probably buy cars and watches the same way.
>>
>> Sue(tm)
>> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
>
>No Sue, it doesn't have to do with *richness*, it has to do with desires
>and determination. We basically knew what we wanted just we weren't
>quite planning on buying it so soon. We did our research too so knew
>what features were of value to us. We just bought a Jenn Air which by
>many standards means money, at least that is the impression we are
>getting from some dealers. From our perspective it meant value. We
>could get a self clean Jenn Air with 3 oven racks and burner flexibility
>for a fraction of what it should have cost only because we were at the
>right place at the right time. Now I could tell you about vehicles
>since DH is awesome at getting great deasl and refuses to ever buy a new
>vehicle yet if I told you what vehicles we drove you would likely pass
>judgement. See getting something really nice like our stove for a
>fraction of the cost is what makes it special. It does pay to be frugal
> As far as watches, I'm still using the watch that goes with my
>custom made charm bracelet - I made most of the charms myself

I realize that there are rich people who are frugal and my hat is off
to you (if my dad were rich, that's the kind of rich person he'd be),
although I have to admit that for me being rich would mean not having
to worry about price or shopping for value.

I also did my research, and watched and waited until the time was
right for the range I wanted. But under normal conditions I can't
imagine a Viking ever being on such a sale that I could afford one.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:

<snip>
> I realize that there are rich people who are frugal and my hat is off
> to you (if my dad were rich, that's the kind of rich person he'd be),
> although I have to admit that for me being rich would mean not having
> to worry about price or shopping for value.
>
> I also did my research, and watched and waited until the time was
> right for the range I wanted. But under normal conditions I can't
> imagine a Viking ever being on such a sale that I could afford one.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the Viking was going for around
$800? At least that's what I thought someone on this thread said. At
that price, it isn't too far off the norm price for other ranges with
less features. I do understand the price drawback on these larger
appliances though. We bought our Admiral range eons ago for something
like $600. It was a real workhorse even though it wasn't self cleaning.
Our Jenn Air in the end will likely end up costing us close to $2000
but it is self cleaning, convection oven, and has a lot of extra
features as well as flexibility. Now I expect *no problems* and it to
be a workhorse as well as saving us money. We didn't buy it for looks!
That's one of the problems with these higher end ranges - you really
do need to do the research and if you are like us, you save & save until
you can afford to buy. A tip for large appliance purchases is to check
the clearance centres and if you are willing to wait some of the
clearance centres put on huge sales like moonlight madness. Honestly,
our stove was retailing at $2600 *without* a burner cartridge or
downdraft blower, grill only. We initially saw it at the clearance
centre for $1400 but moonlight madness sale we got it for $1000. With
parts that we would have had to buy anyway pushing the stove close to
the $3500 mark, we really got a deal. Now if you are just looking for a
regular range, I saw plenty of very nice ranges going for around $400
and they were self cleaning! I've never seen a Viking but from the pics
they do look really nice and they look like they would perform nicely.
I really wanted one like Rachel Ray has but that just isn't going to happen.
>
> Sue(tm)
> Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!