Do you use a starter?
If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and use
that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat, though
white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the glycemic
index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I am, you
should be addressing this, to prolong life.
Happy New Year

Kent wrote:
> Do you use a starter?
> If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
> store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and use
> that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
> Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
> Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat, though
> white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the glycemic
> index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I am, you
> should be addressing this, to prolong life.
> Happy New Year

You should mix in extra gluten.

--Bryan

"Kent" > wrote:
> Do you use a starter?
> If so, long do you ferment it? How long can or you store it? Should you
> store it before using it? Do you save a bit of dough from one pizza, and
> use that as a starter at your next pizza attempt?
> Do you add yeast in addition to the yeast already in the starter?
> Have any tried other flours. What is your favorite unbleached, wheat,
> though white flour. I have started trying 50% whole wheat, to raise the
> glycemic index of the whole pizza. If you're prone to hyperglycemia, as I
> am, you should be addressing this, to prolong life.

I use a "sourdough" starter I keep around for all my "bread" baking
activities, including pizza dough. When I make anything, I refresh the
starter and use the remainder for baking something. For pizza, I make the
dough in the morning and then let it ferment slowly through the day, about 8
hours or so. I use regular bread flour for the pizza dough. I don't add any
additional yeast to the dough beyond what's in my starter.

For making bread, I do it a little differently. I refresh the starter at
night, and then use the remainder to make a poolish for the bread. For the
bread I began this past Friday night, I used the starter, 3 cups of water,
and 3 cups of flour. I let that ferment overnight. The next morning I add
the remainder of the flour, the salt, and anything else I'm putting in. No
additional yeast here either. This last batch (2 loaves) I added sun dried
tomatoes and canned ripe olives. I do the normal first rise (90 minutes),
form the loaves, do a second rise (60 minutes), then bake.

After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about 12
hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear. Certainly not if
it could do the first rise of the dough in 90 minutes (after the overnight
ferment of the poolish).

Since I've been doing this starter thing, I don't use yeast any more. I
began this starter 2 years ago. In the mean time, I've got a container of
yeast in the freezer that's basically been sitting there for 2 years. Yeast
(active dry) seems to last forever in the freezer.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:09:34 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> wrote:

>After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about 12
>hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
>refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
>time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear.

Howdy,

It would last much longer in the refrigerator if you didn't
have it consume so much of its food while at room
temperature.

What benefit do you feel you get from doing that?

Thanks,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote:
>>After refreshing my starter, I leave it out at room temperature for about
>>12
>>hours, stirring it down a couple of times. Then it goes into the
>>refrigerator. This last time it was 3 weeks and 2 days from the previous
>>time I used it. It didn't seem too much the worse for wear.
>
> Howdy,
>
> It would last much longer in the refrigerator if you didn't
> have it consume so much of its food while at room
> temperature.
>
> What benefit do you feel you get from doing that?

I believe the minute you put the starter (or any yeast dough) into the
refrigerator, you pretty much slow all growth activity down to a standstill.
So I'm not sure the lack of food has much effect on how long it lasts. In
refreshing and fermenting again at warmer temperatures, you are
accomplishing two things. First is getting rid of the waste products of the
fermentation (alcohol, etc.). Second is building back up the yeast cell
count so it is strong enough to ferment the next batch of dough in a
reasonable time period. If you put it back in the refrigerator immediately,
the number of yeast cells would not increase.

Aside from the yeast activity in a sourdough, there is also the bacteria
activity. Sourdough is a symbiotic relationship between yeast and bacteria.
Bacteria add a sour note to the dough. Or rather the acid products (lactic,
acetic) they generate. The sourness is partly a function of how long and at
what temperature the ferment takes place. Low room temperatures favor
acetic, higher favor lactic. But temperatures also affect speed of
fermentation. It's all pretty complicated, and pretty amazing. I'm not
always doing the same thing, but I'm sure whatever I'm doing, the result is
more flavorful than using just straight yeast and a quick fermentation. It's
fun to play with and saves me the cost of buying yeast.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:46:09 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> wrote:

>I believe the minute you put the starter (or any yeast dough) into the
>refrigerator, you pretty much slow all growth activity down to a standstill.
>So I'm not sure the lack of food has much effect on how long it lasts.

Hello again,

My understanding (and my experience) is that, indeed, in the
refrigerator, the growth slows, but not to a standstill.

The available food is slowly depleted at those temperatures,
and that is why it makes sense to store starters before they
are depleted, that is, with a supply of fresh food (flour)
rather than after they have "eaten" it.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote:
> My understanding (and my experience) is that, indeed, in the
> refrigerator, the growth slows, but not to a standstill.
>
> The available food is slowly depleted at those temperatures,
> and that is why it makes sense to store starters before they
> are depleted, that is, with a supply of fresh food (flour)
> rather than after they have "eaten" it.

I agree they don't stop, but between the cold and the lack of food, the
critters seem to go dormant. For me at least there doesn't seem to be any
deleterious effect of storing them without a fresh batch of food. What I
wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in the
refrigerator? One of my goals is to use everything I can from the process...
the discarded starter from refreshing always goes into something if I can
help it.

The longer I've stored the starter, the slower the action once I bring it
back out. That suggests that some percentage is dying off during storage.
But it does not seem to affect the final result (making the next batch of
dough), only the time it takes.

The biggest factor for me in terms of resulting sourness is time and
temperature. Temperature is a hard thing to control through the year. In
summer, "room temperature" might get up to 80 degrees even with the A/C on.
In winter, during the night with the thermostat set back, room temperature
might drop to 60 degrees. I can place my fermenting containers in various
places. My stove is one of those old 1970s vintage gas double (upper and
lower) oven models with pilots for everything. The upper oven is really just
a bit too warm for fermenting. The lower oven is in the upper 70s degree
range. With the light on, it is more like the upper 80s. On top of the stove
toward the back is around 72 degrees.

I don't get overly concerned about reproducing the same results over and
over. I'll take what I get and enjoy it. It's always better than just a
simple mix flour, yeast and water, rise twice, then bake model. I seem to
get my best results by letting the starter go no longer than a week, and
fermenting a poolish overnight on the back of the stove. But I'm not going
to let the process take over my life.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> wrote:

>What I
>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in the
>refrigerator?

Hello again,

Here's what I do...

I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.

The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.

I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
the refrigerator it goes.

When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.

Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active
culture.

Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
with no difficulty.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> > wrote:
>
>>What I
>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in the
>>refrigerator?
>
> Hello again,
>
> Here's what I do...
>
> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>
> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>
> I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
> the refrigerator it goes.
>
> When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
> add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.
>
> Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active
> culture.
>
> Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
> with no difficulty.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth
>


Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:

After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active starter to
get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
place it in the refrigerator.

I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take 1/2 of
the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut -- leaving
1/2 of the walnut ball.

Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
IT'S GONE!

Dee Dee

On Tue 03 Jan 2006 09:51:15p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dee
Randall?

>
> "Kenneth" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>What I
>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in
>>>the refrigerator?
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> Here's what I do...
>>
>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>
>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>>
>> I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
>> the refrigerator it goes.
>>
>> When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
>> add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.
>>
>> Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active culture.
>>
>> Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
>> with no difficulty.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>
>
> Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>
> After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active
> starter to get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a
> container and place it in the refrigerator.
>
> I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take
> 1/2 of the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut
> -- leaving 1/2 of the walnut ball.
>
> Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
> again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
> IT'S GONE!
>
> Dee Dee

Use it and lose it! You have been forewarned.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
__________________________________________________ ________________
And if we enter a room full of manure, may we believe in the pony.

"Wayne Boatwright" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue 03 Jan 2006 09:51:15p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dee
> Randall?
>
>>
>> "Kenneth" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>What I
>>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in
>>>>the refrigerator?
>>>
>>> Hello again,
>>>
>>> Here's what I do...
>>>
>>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>>
>>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>>>
>>> I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
>>> the refrigerator it goes.
>>>
>>> When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
>>> add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.
>>>
>>> Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active culture.
>>>
>>> Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
>>> with no difficulty.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>
>>
>> Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>
>> After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active
>> starter to get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a
>> container and place it in the refrigerator.
>>
>> I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take
>> 1/2 of the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut
>> -- leaving 1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>
>> Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>> again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>> IT'S GONE!
>>
>> Dee Dee
>
> Use it and lose it! You have been forewarned.
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright *¿*

Wayne, I've been trying to get a handle on this for years. I just cannot.
And I don't want to end up with gallons of Nancy Silverton's grape starter,
if you've ever seen that.
I have to laugh, I think you are right. I'm using my noggin' trying to
understand this, but I'm losing it. And I must be driving DH crazy too with
this.

P.S., Wayne, today we went to Sears and went thru our first indoctrination
on 'modern' electric stoves. It was fun. No one else was shopping and we
had all the attention. They had quite a few brands. I guess GE this past
year has come out with the largest of any 'round' on the same stove with a
'double round' for use of a grill (don't know my terminology yet). The
Jenn-air I couldn't even identify the rounds on the black stove. I liked
the looks of the Kitchen Aid stove and the Bosch. I saw for the first time
the elements not showing, but being built underneath the floor of the oven.
Seems strange to me.
Dee Dee

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:51:15 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>What I
>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in the
>>>refrigerator?
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> Here's what I do...
>>
>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>
>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>>
>> I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
>> the refrigerator it goes.
>>
>> When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
>> add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.
>>
>> Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active
>> culture.
>>
>> Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
>> with no difficulty.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>>
>
>
>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>
>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active starter to
>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
>place it in the refrigerator.
>
>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take 1/2 of
>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut -- leaving
>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>
>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>IT'S GONE!
>
>Dee Dee
>
>
Hi Dee,

Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>

When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
new ball, and that's it.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 23:51:15 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>What I
>>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in
>>>>the
>>>>refrigerator?
>>>
>>> Hello again,
>>>
>>> Here's what I do...
>>>
>>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>>
>>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>>>
>>> I pop that into a small screw-top lab plastic jar, and into
>>> the refrigerator it goes.
>>>
>>> When I want to bake, I pinch off about half of the ball and
>>> add to that 100g of water, and 100g of flour.
>>>
>>> Within a few hours, I have a small fresh batch of active
>>> culture.
>>>
>>> Using that method, I have stored starter for many months
>>> with no difficulty.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>
>>
>>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>
>>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active starter
>>to
>>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
>>place it in the refrigerator.
>>
>>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take 1/2
>>of
>>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut --
>>leaving
>>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>
>>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>>IT'S GONE!
>>
>>Dee Dee
>>
>>
> Hi Dee,
>
> Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>
>
> When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
> Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
> as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
> Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
> new ball, and that's it.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth

Kenneth, you say that "using that method you have stored starter for many
months..." which indicates to me that you stored only a walnut-sized piece
of starter [but you say when you are 'at' step 2 you have a 'batch' of
active starter] and not the original active starter from which you made the
walnut; now I'm understanding that you DID store the whole batch of active
starter, which further indicates to me that you have this big batch of
starter to keep going. But it seemed from reading your first instructions,
you only had to store a walnut-sized piece to store starter for many months.

Do I understand this correctly; that you are storing BOTH active starter
and a walnut-sized piece of starter. And if not, in your last answer, I
don't understand where the step 2 is that you now have a "batch of active
starter."
I can't get this reconciled: half-teaspoon of active starter, batch of
active starter, batch of starter, walnut-sized piece of starter, stored
starter, used starter, step 2, step 3, what the starter is called after 100g
water & flour are added & when & at what step.\

Diagrams? Pictures? 1-2-3 steps? Glossary? Definitions?
Whoa, I'm still in trouble.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>>
>>>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active starter
>>>to
>>>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
>>>place it in the refrigerator.
>>>
>>>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take 1/2
>>>of
>>>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut --
>>>leaving
>>>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>>
>>>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>>>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>>>IT'S GONE!
>>>
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>>>
>> Hi Dee,
>>
>> Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>
>>
>> When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
>> Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
>> as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
>> Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
>> new ball, and that's it.
>>
>> All the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth

Hi Dee,

I feel rather like I am in an experiment in a social
psychology class, but won't give up just yet...

Again, here are the steps:

A: Take a tiny amount of active starter, mix in lots of
flour, form a ball, and put it in a jar in the refrigerator.

That ball is your "storage starter."

When you wish to bake:

Pinch off half of the ball, add to that 100g of flour and
100g water, mix, and put aside at room temperature. Soon
that will produce about 200g of "active starter."

Take a tiny amount of that active starter and repeat step
"A" just above. When you have your new ball of storage
starter, discard your "old" half-ball of storage starter.

Use the rest of the "active starter" any way you wish.

I do hope that this clarifies, aid wish you the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>>>
>>>>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active
>>>>starter
>>>>to
>>>>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
>>>>place it in the refrigerator.
>>>>
>>>>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take
>>>>1/2
>>>>of
>>>>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut --
>>>>leaving
>>>>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>>>
>>>>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>>>>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>>>>IT'S GONE!
>>>>
>>>>Dee Dee
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Hi Dee,
>>>
>>> Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>
>>>
>>> When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
>>> Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
>>> as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
>>> Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
>>> new ball, and that's it.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>
> Hi Dee,
>
> I feel rather like I am in an experiment in a social
> psychology class, but won't give up just yet...
>
> Again, here are the steps:
>
> A: Take a tiny amount of active starter, mix in lots of
> flour, form a ball, and put it in a jar in the refrigerator.
>
> That ball is your "storage starter."
>
> When you wish to bake:
>
> Pinch off half of the ball, add to that 100g of flour and
> 100g water, mix, and put aside at room temperature. Soon
> that will produce about 200g of "active starter."
>
> Take a tiny amount of that active starter and repeat step
> "A" just above. When you have your new ball of storage
> starter, discard your "old" half-ball of storage starter.
>
> Use the rest of the "active starter" any way you wish.
>
> I do hope that this clarifies, aid wish you the best,
> --
> Kenneth


One of us will get an A -- because I've got it! But you will get an extra
"E" for Effort and "P" for Patience.

According to your instructions: I can just dump my INITIAL "active starter"
whether it is a gallon, or a cup, because I will always have an active
starter doing it as you say -- that is, unless something horrible goes
wrong. I won't go into that -- I know, you are saying: "Thanks heavens."
Thanks, Kenneth.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:21:38 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0500, "Dee Randall"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>>>>
>>>>>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active
>>>>>starter
>>>>>to
>>>>>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container and
>>>>>place it in the refrigerator.
>>>>>
>>>>>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take
>>>>>1/2
>>>>>of
>>>>>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut --
>>>>>leaving
>>>>>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized starter
>>>>>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>>>>>IT'S GONE!
>>>>>
>>>>>Dee Dee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Hi Dee,
>>>>
>>>> Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>
>>>>
>>>> When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
>>>> Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
>>>> as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
>>>> Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
>>>> new ball, and that's it.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>> --
>>>> Kenneth
>>
>> Hi Dee,
>>
>> I feel rather like I am in an experiment in a social
>> psychology class, but won't give up just yet...
>>
>> Again, here are the steps:
>>
>> A: Take a tiny amount of active starter, mix in lots of
>> flour, form a ball, and put it in a jar in the refrigerator.
>>
>> That ball is your "storage starter."
>>
>> When you wish to bake:
>>
>> Pinch off half of the ball, add to that 100g of flour and
>> 100g water, mix, and put aside at room temperature. Soon
>> that will produce about 200g of "active starter."
>>
>> Take a tiny amount of that active starter and repeat step
>> "A" just above. When you have your new ball of storage
>> starter, discard your "old" half-ball of storage starter.
>>
>> Use the rest of the "active starter" any way you wish.
>>
>> I do hope that this clarifies, aid wish you the best,
>> --
>> Kenneth
>
>
>One of us will get an A -- because I've got it! But you will get an extra
>"E" for Effort and "P" for Patience.
>
>According to your instructions: I can just dump my INITIAL "active starter"
>whether it is a gallon, or a cup, because I will always have an active
>starter doing it as you say -- that is, unless something horrible goes
>wrong. I won't go into that -- I know, you are saying: "Thanks heavens."
>Thanks, Kenneth.
>Dee Dee
>

Hi Dee,

There is little need to ever have a gallon of "active
starter" to dump.

Many printed instructions (most emblematic, the Nancy
Silverton version) encourages people to keep doubling the
amount of starter they have.

Of course, doing that, one soon would have to move to a
larger dwelling.

With the method I suggest, there is very little, if any,
waste because we simply generate enough active starter for
the things we want to bake, and no more.

So, suppose I want to make a bread that uses 500g of active
starter.

I would do the pinch off half the ball thing. In a few
hours, that would, as I have described, give me about 200g
of active starter. To that, I would add 150g water, and 150g
flour.

When that gets active, I would have the 500g that I needed
for the bread I was about to bake.

Then, I sneak out a teaspoon or so to make a new storage
starter.

Also note that I suggest tossing out the old storage starter
ball only after making a new one.

That is to prevent "disaster."

So, suppose I toss out the old storage starter first
(telling myself that I am about to make a new ball for
storage) and just then, I get that important phone call
telling me that the folks from Publisher's Clearing House
would soon be in my driveway with their TV cameras and all
those balloons...

In all the ensuing fuss, I might forget to make my new
storage starter, and find that the next time I want to bake,
I have none to "start" with.

And finally, I have experimented with the very firm starter
ball approach for quite a while now and find that after
three months in the refrigerator, using the procedure that I
have described for you, it starts to ferment actively in
just a few hours. The method works far better for me than
any other I have found.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
> > wrote:
>
>>What I
>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in
>>the
>>refrigerator?
>
> Hello again,
>
> Here's what I do...
>
> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>
> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.

Given that the ball of starter is so small, and you don't need to keep
the tiny piece that is left, why not just use the whole wee ball?

O

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 16:21:38 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 12:55:52 -0500, "Dee Randall"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Reiterating to see if I am understanding you:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After I add as much flour as I can to one-half teaspoon of active
>>>>>>starter
>>>>>>to
>>>>>>get a firm-clay textured/walnut size ball, I put it into a container
>>>>>>and
>>>>>>place it in the refrigerator.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I leave it in the refrigerator and then when I want to bake, I take
>>>>>>1/2
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>the walnut ball, add 100g flour, 100 g water to this 1/2 walnut --
>>>>>>leaving
>>>>>>1/2 of the walnut ball.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, if I want to bake again from this stored 1/2 walnut-sized
>>>>>>starter
>>>>>>again, and if I add 100g flour, 100 g water and use it,
>>>>>>IT'S GONE!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dee Dee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dee,
>>>>>
>>>>> Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad...<g>
>>>>>
>>>>> When you are at step 2, you have a batch of active starter.
>>>>> Take a small amount of it, and repeat the "add as much flour
>>>>> as you can" process. That produces a new ball of starter.
>>>>> Toss the old "half-ball", rinse its container, put in the
>>>>> new ball, and that's it.
>>>>>
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kenneth
>>>
>>> Hi Dee,
>>>
>>> I feel rather like I am in an experiment in a social
>>> psychology class, but won't give up just yet...
>>>
>>> Again, here are the steps:
>>>
>>> A: Take a tiny amount of active starter, mix in lots of
>>> flour, form a ball, and put it in a jar in the refrigerator.
>>>
>>> That ball is your "storage starter."
>>>
>>> When you wish to bake:
>>>
>>> Pinch off half of the ball, add to that 100g of flour and
>>> 100g water, mix, and put aside at room temperature. Soon
>>> that will produce about 200g of "active starter."
>>>
>>> Take a tiny amount of that active starter and repeat step
>>> "A" just above. When you have your new ball of storage
>>> starter, discard your "old" half-ball of storage starter.
>>>
>>> Use the rest of the "active starter" any way you wish.
>>>
>>> I do hope that this clarifies, aid wish you the best,
>>> --
>>> Kenneth
>>
>>
>>One of us will get an A -- because I've got it! But you will get an extra
>>"E" for Effort and "P" for Patience.
>>
>>According to your instructions: I can just dump my INITIAL "active
>>starter"
>>whether it is a gallon, or a cup, because I will always have an active
>>starter doing it as you say -- that is, unless something horrible goes
>>wrong. I won't go into that -- I know, you are saying: "Thanks heavens."
>>Thanks, Kenneth.
>>Dee Dee
>>
>
> Hi Dee,
>
> There is little need to ever have a gallon of "active
> starter" to dump.
>
> Many printed instructions (most emblematic, the Nancy
> Silverton version) encourages people to keep doubling the
> amount of starter they have.
>
> Of course, doing that, one soon would have to move to a
> larger dwelling.
>
> With the method I suggest, there is very little, if any,
> waste because we simply generate enough active starter for
> the things we want to bake, and no more.
>
> So, suppose I want to make a bread that uses 500g of active
> starter.
>
> I would do the pinch off half the ball thing. In a few
> hours, that would, as I have described, give me about 200g
> of active starter. To that, I would add 150g water, and 150g
> flour.
>
> When that gets active, I would have the 500g that I needed
> for the bread I was about to bake.
>
> Then, I sneak out a teaspoon or so to make a new storage
> starter.
>
> Also note that I suggest tossing out the old storage starter
> ball only after making a new one.
>
> That is to prevent "disaster."
>
> So, suppose I toss out the old storage starter first
> (telling myself that I am about to make a new ball for
> storage) and just then, I get that important phone call
> telling me that the folks from Publisher's Clearing House
> would soon be in my driveway with their TV cameras and all
> those balloons...
>
> In all the ensuing fuss, I might forget to make my new
> storage starter, and find that the next time I want to bake,
> I have none to "start" with.
>
> And finally, I have experimented with the very firm starter
> ball approach for quite a while now and find that after
> three months in the refrigerator, using the procedure that I
> have described for you, it starts to ferment actively in
> just a few hours. The method works far better for me than
> any other I have found.
>
> All the best,
> --
> Kenneth

Yes, and "all the best" to you, Kenneth for giving your method, and sticking
with me.
I don't know when I'll be doing this, but it's the first time I feel that I
CAN, and you know I've been a long time trying to find a method. Probably I
should have been addressing this on the sourdough ng, and I do subscribe to
that ng, but it can be intimidating. There'll be time enough when I get my
'active' starter going.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:27:18 GMT, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>
>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>What I
>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it in
>>>the
>>>refrigerator?
>>
>> Hello again,
>>
>> Here's what I do...
>>
>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>
>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>
>Given that the ball of starter is so small, and you don't need to keep
>the tiny piece that is left, why not just use the whole wee ball?
>
>O
>

Howdy,

I suggest using half to avoid another common "disaster"
scenario...

Suppose I use all of my "storage starter", as you say, "the
whole wee ball" and mix up with it some flour and water to
make a bit of active starter.

I leave that on the counter to ferment, and some kind soul
decides to clean up the counter and toss what appears to be
a small cup of "paste."

Having all of my starter in one place, is just begging for
trouble, in my opinion.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 22:27:18 GMT, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Kenneth" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 17:38:18 GMT, "wff_ng_7"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>What I
>>>>wonder about your method is are you suggesting just adding more food
>>>>(flour), or redividing it again (refreshing) just before putting it
>>>>in
>>>>the
>>>>refrigerator?
>>>
>>> Hello again,
>>>
>>> Here's what I do...
>>>
>>> I take a very small amount of active starter (say a half
>>> teaspoon) and add to that as much flour as I can knead in.
>>>
>>> The result is a small ball of dough that is the texture of
>>> firm clay, and about the size of a walnut.
>>
>>Given that the ball of starter is so small, and you don't need to keep
>>the tiny piece that is left, why not just use the whole wee ball?
>>
>>O
>>
>
> Howdy,
>
> I suggest using half to avoid another common "disaster"
> scenario...
>
> Suppose I use all of my "storage starter", as you say, "the
> whole wee ball" and mix up with it some flour and water to
> make a bit of active starter.
>
> I leave that on the counter to ferment, and some kind soul
> decides to clean up the counter and toss what appears to be
> a small cup of "paste."
>
> Having all of my starter in one place, is just begging for
> trouble, in my opinion.

Ahh I see) Ok so you are not throwing away the wee half ball until you
have worked with the rest of your starter and made another ball?

You may remember me Kenneth from when I distributed Carl's starter in
UK. I had to stop when I became ill for a long period. I had some
frozen Carl's but when I tried to activate it after a couple of years it
wouldn't work

That was a shame, I loved that starter.

Ophelia

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:39:49 GMT, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>Ahh I see) Ok so you are not throwing away the wee half ball until you
>have worked with the rest of your starter and made another ball?
>
>You may remember me Kenneth from when I distributed Carl's starter in
>UK. I had to stop when I became ill for a long period. I had some
>frozen Carl's but when I tried to activate it after a couple of years it
>wouldn't work
>
>That was a shame, I loved that starter.
>
>Ophelia
>

Hi Ophelia,

Well, you can easily get more of it...

I don't have any currently or I would be happy to send it
off to you, but the Carl's Friends crew are still active and
would be happy to see that you received some.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 23:39:49 GMT, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>Ahh I see) Ok so you are not throwing away the wee half ball until
>>you
>>have worked with the rest of your starter and made another ball?
>>
>>You may remember me Kenneth from when I distributed Carl's starter in
>>UK. I had to stop when I became ill for a long period. I had some
>>frozen Carl's but when I tried to activate it after a couple of years
>>it
>>wouldn't work
>>
>>That was a shame, I loved that starter.
>>
>>Ophelia
>>
>
> Hi Ophelia,
>
> Well, you can easily get more of it...
>
> I don't have any currently or I would be happy to send it
> off to you, but the Carl's Friends crew are still active and
> would be happy to see that you received some.

Thanks Kenneth I am still hot back up to doing all I want to do but I
will probably ask for some when I am

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:31:19 GMT, "Ophelia"
> wrote:

>Thanks Kenneth I am still hot back up to doing all I want to do but I
>will probably ask for some when I am

Hi Ophelia,

I wish you a speedy full recovery (and maybe some sourdough
baking will help) <g>.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."

"Kenneth" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:31:19 GMT, "Ophelia"
> > wrote:
>
>>Thanks Kenneth I am still hot back up to doing all I want to do but
>>I
>>will probably ask for some when I am
>
> Hi Ophelia,
>
> I wish you a speedy full recovery (and maybe some sourdough
> baking will help) <g>.
>
> All the best,

<G> thank you

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
. uk...
>
> "Kenneth" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:31:19 GMT, "Ophelia"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks Kenneth I am still hot back up to doing all I want to do but I
>>>will probably ask for some when I am
>>
>> Hi Ophelia,
>>
>> I wish you a speedy full recovery (and maybe some sourdough
>> baking will help) <g>.
>>
>> All the best,
>
> <G> thank you

Me, too, O. I wish you all the good health you can get. Health is damned
near "all."

As far as Carl's -- well, mine has been sitting here way too long. Waiting,
I think, for Kenneth's instructions. Perhaps it's not good anymore, but
we'll see. Everytime I've done something new, it's taken a real
concentrated effort on my part, and everything suffers for it until it's
worked out.
Dee Dee

"Kenneth" > wrote:
> And finally, I have experimented with the very firm starter
> ball approach for quite a while now and find that after
> three months in the refrigerator, using the procedure that I
> have described for you, it starts to ferment actively in
> just a few hours. The method works far better for me than
> any other I have found.

Thanks for the explanation. The "storage starter" vs. "active starter"
helped. I might start trying this for when I know I might be away for
awhile, as I am sure my method won't last as long as three months. Three
weeks is as far as I want to go with it, though normally I figure out
something to make every week or two.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>>
>> "Kenneth" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:31:19 GMT, "Ophelia"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks Kenneth I am still hot back up to doing all I want to do
>>>>but I
>>>>will probably ask for some when I am
>>>
>>> Hi Ophelia,
>>>
>>> I wish you a speedy full recovery (and maybe some sourdough
>>> baking will help) <g>.
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>
>> <G> thank you
>
> Me, too, O. I wish you all the good health you can get. Health is
> damned near "all."

It is indeed, and thank you Dee Dee

>
> As far as Carl's -- well, mine has been sitting here way too long.
> Waiting, I think, for Kenneth's instructions. Perhaps it's not good
> anymore, but we'll see. Everytime I've done something new, it's taken
> a real concentrated effort on my part, and everything suffers for it
> until it's worked out.
> Dee Dee
>
>
>