Mark Thorson wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>>Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>>Food-grade propane is odorless.
>>>If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>>
>>Don't think there is such a thing. I think both propane
>>and nat gas must include an odorant (usually methyl mercaptan).
>
>
> Why don't you go to this page and search
> on "odorless":
>
> http://www.oilcn.com/Detail_Offer.aspx?id=14145

But that doesn't give any usable information because it is just a vague
request for quote. We have absolutely no idea what context "odorless"
is used in because no specification is cited.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> modom wrote:
> >
> > K E double L O double G --
> > Good --
> > Kellogg's best for you!
>
> Different Kellogg. Although John Harvey Kellogg
> co-invented corn flakes, it was his younger brother
> William Keith Kellogg who started the breakfast food
> industry. There was a movie The Road To Wellville
> which was remarkably historically accurate, even as
> a work of fiction.
>
> J. H. Kellogg was a respected doctor and surgeon, and
> a charismatic promoter of his maverick theories about
> health and nutrition. Some of these theories turned out
> to be true (smoking tobacco _does_ cause lung cancer),
> but many others turned out to be false. His Seventh-Day
> Adventist background influenced his beliefs. He believed
> that coffee, spicy foods, white sugar, vinegar, and meat
> were all very destructive to health. He also believed that
> frequent colonic purges were important for good health.
>
> Although the practices of the Battle Creek Sanitarium
> over which he was Superintendent would be considered
> quackery by today's standards, they were not
> unreasonable by the standards of the late 19th century
> and early 20th century. Some of the research and
> programs at Battle Creek Sanitarium played an important
> role in the development of modern nutritional science.
> They published the first cookbook that listed calorie
> counts and other nutritional information (protein,
> fat, carbohydrate, etc.) for all recipes.
> Their head dietitian was founder of the American
> Dietetics Association, the professional organization
> for dietitians.

Sorry dude, he may have had a few good ideas, but he was also a sick and
twisted person with strict beliefs about the sin of masturbation.

He hurt a LOT of people!

http://www.ejhs.org/volume1/fisher/nun70.htm
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

George wrote:
>
> But that doesn't give any usable information because it is just
> a vague request for quote. We have absolutely no idea what
> context "odorless" is used in because no specification is cited.

Quoting from U.S. Patent 6,610,343:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,610,343

"Most preferably, the solvent is a category I solvent
approved by The Council of the European Committees
(Jun. 13, 1988 Council Directive) for use in food
processing. Food grade propanes and butanes generally
meet all of the above stated preferences."

I don't know what's in the Council Directive,
or whether it spells out the requirements
for a food-grade propane or butane.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > I have problems? That's rich. I guess that is your way of acknowledging
> > that you gave bullshit advice, but refuse to retract it and prefer
> > instead to insist that the page you cited had anything at all to do
> > with what we were discussing.
>
> Dave, trust me when I say that I mean this
> in the most constructive way possible, but
> you're a nutcase.

Thanks for the advice. I will go out and get some food grade propane if you
can tell me where to get it.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> Sorry dude, he may have had a few good ideas, but he was also a sick and
> twisted person with strict beliefs about the sin of masturbation.
>
> He hurt a LOT of people!
>
> http://www.ejhs.org/volume1/fisher/nun70.htm

Sorry, but that link only mentions J. H. Kellog once,
he

"It was thought that certain food products could
help quell the urge to masturbate. J.H. Kellogg
produced corn flakes for that reason."

That's not quite true. Corn flakes were an
accidental invention. JH Kellogg and his younger
brother WK Kellog were doing experiments with
rolling cooked corn into sheets, and one
batch was left overnight before being rolled.
When rolled, it turned into flakes, and that led
to the new product, which was used experimentally
as a breakfast food at Battle Creek Sanitarium
for a few years. It wasn't until WK Kellogg
added sugar to the formula (total anathema
to JH Kellogg) and left the San to start his own
company that the product took off.

Although JH Kellogg practiced sexual restraint
and promoted it at the San, his main therapies
were diet, exercise, and colonic purges.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> Although JH Kellogg practiced sexual restraint
> and promoted it at the San, his main therapies
> were diet, exercise, and colonic purges.

Wrong.

He also promoted Clitoridectomy.

That is seriously sick in my book.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > Although JH Kellogg practiced sexual restraint
> > and promoted it at the San, his main therapies
> > were diet, exercise, and colonic purges.
>
> Wrong.
>
> He also promoted Clitoridectomy.

What is your source of information on that?
I've read quite a lot about JH Kellogg, and
I've never heard that before.

Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:19:31 -0500, ~patches~
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I started this thread but sure didn't think it would turn to this.
>
>
> Participating in RFC is like walking through a cow pasture on a
> moonless night.
>
> -sw

Isn't it though and it is particularily full of cow dung today I've
stayed out of the cat fight but my gosh, what a waste! A simple
question turned into carcinogens, name calling, and other nonsense. I
wouldn't have posed the question if I thought that would happen. Then
to hear of Dams problems with her computer. I did mention the problem
with PSs, hackers, and ICQ but people scoffed. To think we are not even
two weeks into the new year.

~patches~ --> who had a non-descript pork roast for dinner but I did
add roasted garlic to the gravy before thickening then strained. It
really gave a nice flavour! I'm now off to curl up on the couch and
watch food tv. Perhaps the morning will bring a bit more sense to this
ng

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>>Do you know of any health and safety codes that
>>prohibit use of non food grade propane? Without
>>that, this would be of no concern to me.
>
>
> I've never heard of any codes specific to making
> creme brulee, if that's what you mean. It's such
> a specialty, that I wouldn't expect such codes
> to exist, even if there were a known hazard.


Are there at least any advisories? Any authoritative
sources who agree with your statement? Something
other than your personal opinion is what I'm
looking for here. I'm flexible.

>>When you breath exhaust fumes from a car,
>>even at low concentrations when walking down the
>>street, you're being exposed to carcinogens too.
>>I don't know of a way to attain zero exposure
>>to any and all carcinogens, which seems to
>>be your criteria here.
>
>
> I didn't say that. You're inventing a clearly
> absurd criterion, and using that to criticize me.

You didn't say it explicitly, it's very much
implied.

You posed the prospect that there may be some
amount of carcinogens present, then suggest
that it therefore must be hazardous, regardless
of degree of exposure.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > > Although JH Kellogg practiced sexual restraint
> > > and promoted it at the San, his main therapies
> > > were diet, exercise, and colonic purges.
> >
> > Wrong.
> >
> > He also promoted Clitoridectomy.
>
> What is your source of information on that?
> I've read quite a lot about JH Kellogg, and
> I've never heard that before.

I'm too lazy to google it right now......

but I read it in an article on Infibulation.

The dude was mentally ill.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Steve Wertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 16:19:31 -0500, ~patches~
> > wrote:
>
> >I started this thread but sure didn't think it would turn to this.
>
> Participating in RFC is like walking through a cow pasture on a
> moonless night.
>
> -sw

ROFL!!!

But you can find treasure doing that too! ;-D

Just take a flashlight...
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Steve Wertz > wrote:

> On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 09:13:00 -0800, Mark Thorson
> > wrote:
>
> >A flame front is not some magic thing that
> >completely burns every flammable molecule that
> >passes through it. If such were the case,
> >it would not be possible to get soot from
> >a gas flame. In fact, the opposite is true.
> >The vast majority of all carbon black (lampblack),
> >which is an industrial commodity manufactured
> >in huge amounts for coloring ink, plastics,
> >car tires, etc., comes from deposition of
> >soot from gas flames.
>
> If these odorants were harmful in any way, I don't think the FDA
> would have allowed them in the use of natural gas, which most of
> us use to cook our food.
>
> Any food cooked in the oven would be directly exposed to any
> contaminants.
>
> -sw

Now that is a point I had not thought of yet.

Well done!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Mark Thorson wrote:

> I did not say that this referred specifically
> to burning it or using it to make creme brulee.

You absolutely did. The OP explicitly referred to it.

I'd begun to suspect a troll here, but now I'm leaning
the other way. Trolls usually don't backpedal like this.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

> "Mark Thorson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>>Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>>>You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>>>to buy something special?
>>
>>Food-grade propane is odorless.

Propane is naturally odorless.

"Propane is an odorless gas. The distinctive "rotten egg" smell of
propane has been added as a safety warning feature to alert people to
its presence."
<http://www.mipga.org/Safety.htm>

>>If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

When propane and butane are used as solvents, no indicators are
included. The only reason the "food-grade" designation is used is
because the names of the procedures include it.

You can't buy odorless propane for home use. And it wouldn't make any
difference if you could. "Every year more than 60 million Americans use
more than 11 million gallons of propane"

You'd think that if there were health hazards with burning it in our
homes that it would have been identified by now...

Pastorio

Mark Thorson wrote:
> George wrote:
>
>>But that doesn't give any usable information because it is just
>>a vague request for quote. We have absolutely no idea what
>>context "odorless" is used in because no specification is cited.
>
> Quoting from U.S. Patent 6,610,343:
>
> http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,610,343
>
> "Most preferably, the solvent is a category I solvent
> approved by The Council of the European Committees
> (Jun. 13, 1988 Council Directive) for use in food
> processing. Food grade propanes and butanes generally
> meet all of the above stated preferences."
>
> I don't know what's in the Council Directive,
> or whether it spells out the requirements
> for a food-grade propane or butane.

It means butane and propane to which no scent indicators are added. It
means that they are non-toxic and can be used as solvents in food
production processes. The major reason for excluding the indicators is
that they might alter the scent of the foods being processed. Chocolate
that smelled like the rotten cabbage, skunk, garlic odor of propane
indicators would probably not get a big share of the market. Ya think...?

Mark you're talking shit and have been throughout this thread. It would
be best if you just skulked off and cooked something.


Pastorio

In article .com>,
"Sheldon" > wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> >
> > > ~patches~ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
> > > > You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
> > > > to buy something special?
> > >
> > > Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > > If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
> >
> > WTF ?????
> > Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?
>
> Ain't ya ever heard of food-grade electricity?
>

<snork>

That was funny. ;-D
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Sheldon wrote:
> Dave Smith wrote:
>
>>Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>~patches~ wrote:
>>>
>>>>Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>>>>You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>>>>to buy something special?
>>>
>>>Food-grade propane is odorless.
>>>If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>>
>>WTF ?????
>>Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?
>
>
> Ain't ya ever heard of food-grade electricity?

<LOL>

Pastorio

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Steve Wertz > wrote:
> >
> > If these odorants were harmful in any way, I don't think the FDA
> > would have allowed them in the use of natural gas, which most of
> > us use to cook our food.

> Now that is a point I had not thought of yet.

Except that he raises a red herring.
Nobody's claiming that the odorants themselves
are harmful.

Reg wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > I did not say that this referred specifically
> > to burning it or using it to make creme brulee.
>
> You absolutely did. The OP explicitly referred to it.

Here is the posting I made, in its original (unedited) form:

> Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> > I think somebody was maybe confusing food grade gases such as CO2
> > or N2O and figured there must be a food grade version of
> > propane/butane, too...
> >
> > But instead of simply admitting his mistake, went to unnecessary
> > lengths to try and cover it up.
>
> Try telling that to the USDA:
>
> http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._NO_115=121505
>
> Search on that page for "food-grade butane".

My reference in that posting specifically addressed
the question of whether there was such a thing as
"a food grade version of propane/butane". Clearly,
there is, as supported by that reference and others.

The source of your confusion is that Steve
edited out the part which made it clear which
question I was answering in that posting. That's
the sleight-of-hand he used.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> Reg wrote:
> >
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> >
> > > I did not say that this referred specifically
> > > to burning it or using it to make creme brulee.
> >
> > You absolutely did. The OP explicitly referred to it.
>
> Here is the posting I made, in its original (unedited) form:
>
> > Steve Wertz wrote:
> > >
> > > I think somebody was maybe confusing food grade gases such as CO2
> > > or N2O and figured there must be a food grade version of
> > > propane/butane, too...
> > >
> > > But instead of simply admitting his mistake, went to unnecessary
> > > lengths to try and cover it up.
> >
> > Try telling that to the USDA:
> >
> > http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._NO_115=121505
> >
> > Search on that page for "food-grade butane".
>
> My reference in that posting specifically addressed
> the question of whether there was such a thing as
> "a food grade version of propane/butane". Clearly,
> there is, as supported by that reference and others.
>
> The source of your confusion is that Steve
> edited out the part which made it clear which
> question I was answering in that posting. That's
> the sleight-of-hand he used.

Having a little trouble with reality are we?
He is your first post on the topic, obviously the one that Reg referred to as the OP
:

>~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for browning?
>> You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I have
>> to buy something special?

>Food-grade propane is odorless.
>If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Reg wrote:
>
>>Mark Thorson wrote:
>>
>>>I did not say that this referred specifically
>>>to burning it or using it to make creme brulee.
>>
>>You absolutely did. The OP explicitly referred to it.
>
> Here is the posting I made, in its original (unedited) form:
>
>>Steve Wertz wrote:
>>
>>>I think somebody was maybe confusing food grade gases such as CO2
>>>or N2O and figured there must be a food grade version of
>>>propane/butane, too...
>>>
>>>But instead of simply admitting his mistake, went to unnecessary
>>>lengths to try and cover it up.
>>
>>Try telling that to the USDA:
>>
>>http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._NO_115=121505
>>
>>Search on that page for "food-grade butane".
>
>
> My reference in that posting specifically addressed
> the question of whether there was such a thing as
> "a food grade version of propane/butane". Clearly,
> there is, as supported by that reference and others.

There is and it's a solvent for extracting oils and then like from food
sources. You can't buy it and neither can any other householder unless
you're in the food processing business in a big way and have all the
necessary permits and facilities.

*ALL* propane and butane intended to be a fuel has odorants added as a
safety measure. The post of yours that led to this was to have said that
people should buy odorless propane. It was nonsense on the face of it.

> The source of your confusion is that Steve
> edited out the part which made it clear which
> question I was answering in that posting. That's
> the sleight-of-hand he used.

Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane for
cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can. The little torches
intended for kitchen use have gases that have an odor. All sources of
propane for fuel use have odorants. Period.

You're dead wrong but still trying to weasel your way around it.

Pastorio

Mark Thorson wrote:
:: ~patches~ wrote:
:::
::: Can I just use a regular run of the mill propane torch for
browning?
::: You know, the propane torches you can buy at the hardware or do I
have
::: to buy something special?
::
:: Food-grade propane is odorless.
:: If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

WTF are you babbling about? Propane that is *INTENDED* to be used *IN
AN OVEN* has an odor added to it. People have been using it for years
with no ill effects. Yes, that oven is used for *FOOD*

Go and get your AFDB he
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

BOB
(this is your original response to the thread, try to weasil out of
this one)

--
Raw Meat Should NOT Have An Ingredients List

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane
> for cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can.

Bob, please provide a quote in which I said
people should buy propane (of any type),
or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.

I didn't make a recommendation on what people
should buy. I've never made creme brulee,
but I think I remember seeing a cooking show
in which an electric barbeque stater was used.
If it worked, I'd use that method. But I wasn't
absolutely sure that I'd seen it, and I couldn't
even remember which show, so I didn't make
that recommendation.

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
>
> In article >,
> Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > >
> > > He also promoted Clitoridectomy.
> >
> > What is your source of information on that?
> > I've read quite a lot about JH Kellogg, and
> > I've never heard that before.
>
> I'm too lazy to google it right now......
>
> but I read it in an article on Infibulation.
>
> The dude was mentally ill.

I've Googled it, and I can't find any documentation
that Kellogg ever performed a clitoridectomy.
You have been misinformed.

BOB wrote:
>
> WTF are you babbling about? Propane that is *INTENDED* to be used *IN
> AN OVEN* has an odor added to it. People have been using it for years
> with no ill effects. Yes, that oven is used for *FOOD*

I've used lots of gas ovens, and in none of them
was the food in path of the flame exhaust.
The burner heated a metal box, and the food
was placed in the box. If there was an upper
burner insider the box, the exhaust from that
burner went out its own passage, away from
the food.

However, that's natural or synthetic gas,
which will be preprocessed specifically for
home use. Propane for welding is another
story.

Here's what PetroCanada said to a guy inquiring
about accumulation of impurities in propane-
powered vehicles. It sounds like pretty nasty
stuff for use directly on food.

Quoting from:
http://cars.rasoenterprises.com/Propane-Residuals.htm

Most propane as it is produced at a gas plant
(the majority of product in Western Canada) or
refineries is very clean. However, during
distribution it can pick up contaminants such
as traces of gasoline or diesel fuel (if pipelined
through a common products pipe line, or in storage
caverns) or extract some plasticizers from hoses
and gaskets. Some of these contaminants,
particularly diesel fuel and lube oil range
materials, have low volatility - so as propane
is evaporated in a converter (changing from a
liquid to a gas), the contaminants remain behind
at a low point in the system - which can be the
bottom of the converter, or a low-lying loop
in a fuel pipe delivering propane vapours to
the carburetor. So there is no 'conversion' or
'breakdown' of propane into oily residues in
a converter - the residues are contaminants
left behind when the propane evaporates.
Unfortunately, the current propane specification
allows rather a lot of oily residues - up to
500 ppm. I've seen instances of 6 - 12 ppm
oily contaminants (6 - 12 litres of oil from a
million litres of propane used in a high volume
heating situation) being enough to cause problems
with build-up of the oil in the bottom of large
converters.

While instances of contaminants in propane have
been on-going for decades, and appear in different
forms (oily materials, 'grease-like', 'black
shoe-polish', and waxy deposits), they are usually
sporadic, even seasonal, and we (the industry)
have not been successful in finding the sources
of all the contaminants. It is clear that potential
future uses of propane, such as fuel cells, will
require very clean product, and current
contaminants will be totally unacceptable.

Mark Thorson wrote:
:: BOB wrote:
:::
::: WTF are you babbling about? Propane that is *INTENDED* to be used
*IN
::: AN OVEN* has an odor added to it. People have been using it for
years
::: with no ill effects. Yes, that oven is used for *FOOD*
::
:: I've used lots of gas ovens, and in none of them
:: was the food in path of the flame exhaust.
:: The burner heated a metal box, and the food
:: was placed in the box. If there was an upper
:: burner insider the box, the exhaust from that
:: burner went out its own passage, away from
:: the food.

Then you've used specially made (for k00ks) gas ovens. All of the
ones that I have used have an open flame in the cooking chamber.
And yes, propane *IS* used for cooking in areas that aren't served by
natural gas pipelines.

<< Snipped more of k00k's babbling that has absolutely nothing to do
with the subject being discussed

You really need to check out the website that I provided to you in my
post.
Are you really this parinoid of everything in the world (as the
majority of your posts indicate)?

BOB

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > > >
> > > > He also promoted Clitoridectomy.
> > >
> > > What is your source of information on that?
> > > I've read quite a lot about JH Kellogg, and
> > > I've never heard that before.
> >
> > I'm too lazy to google it right now......
> >
> > but I read it in an article on Infibulation.
> >
> > The dude was mentally ill.
>
> I've Googled it, and I can't find any documentation
> that Kellogg ever performed a clitoridectomy.
> You have been misinformed.

Not quite what I was looking for, but here is a start:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Kellogg.html

Here is the most famous quote from him:
Covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success.
A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is
circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The
operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an
anaesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a
salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the
idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which
continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not
previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.
If any attempt is made to watch the child, he should be so carefully
surrounded by vigilance that he cannot possibly transgress without
detection. If he is only partially watched, he soon learns to elude
observation, and thus the effect is only to make him cunning in his
vice. (p 295)
In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid
to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement,
and preventing the recurrence of the practice in those whose will-power
has become so weakened that the patient is unable to exercise entire
self-control. (p 297)

This is better.

http://www.highaltitudeimports.com/p...ad.php?t=28537

Nonetheless, if carbolic acid did not do the trick, Kellogg reasoned it
was necessary to surgically remove the clitoris. He cites one such
surgery, performed by him, at the request of the girl's father. Sure
that his 10 year old would go to hell for her sinful indulgence, the
father had resolved he would rather take her out in the wilderness and
leave her to die rather than have her infect the minds of her siblings
with her evil ways. Kellogg and cliterodectomy were her only hope for
continued life and salvation.

Cheers!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Steve Wertz wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Jan 2006 07:40:00 -0800, Mark Thorson
> > wrote:
>
> >The source of your confusion is that Steve
> >edited out the part which made it clear which
> >question I was answering in that posting. That's
> >the sleight-of-hand he used.
>
> Boy. We're really back peddling now.
>

That's odd. That's what he accused me of doing. Perhaps we
should change the subject of the threat to Dumb Answers, and
maybe Mark will admit that he gave one. :-)

Mark Thorson wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
>>Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane
>>for cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can.
>
> Bob, please provide a quote in which I said
> people should buy propane (of any type),
> or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.

Mark, you're astonishing in your ignorance and subsequent weaselness.
Here's your quote:

>Food-grade propane is odorless.
>If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

The sheer ignorance of that short comment qualifies it as one of the
dumbest of the year and maybe last year, too. All the reasons why have
been offered earlier in the thread.

> I didn't make a recommendation on what people
> should buy.

When you tell them what *not* to buy and offer the alternative, that's
telling them what to buy.

> I've never made creme brulee,
> but I think I remember seeing a cooking show
> in which an electric barbeque stater was used.
> If it worked, I'd use that method. But I wasn't
> absolutely sure that I'd seen it, and I couldn't
> even remember which show, so I didn't make
> that recommendation.

Why don't you just stop posting about this. You've been shown to be
wrong on *all* counts of your offerings.

Gas ovens have food in the way of the exhaust fumes which are vented
from the top of the heat chamber above the food. You've talked crap
about that, too.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> Mark Thorson wrote:
> > "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >
> >>Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane
> >>for cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can.
> >
> > Bob, please provide a quote in which I said
> > people should buy propane (of any type),
> > or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.
>
> Mark, you're astonishing in your ignorance and subsequent weaselness.
> Here's your quote:
>
> >Food-grade propane is odorless.
> >If it has an odor, don't use it for food.

If that's the best you can do, I guess you're
admitting that you just pulled it out of your ass.

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> Why don't you just stop posting about this. You've been shown to be
> wrong on *all* counts of your offerings.

That's not at all true. For example, a few people
have asserted that there is no such thing as an
odorless food-grade propane and/or butane:

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> I think somebody was maybe confusing food grade gases such as CO2
> or N2O and figured there must be a food grade version of
> propane/butane, too...
>
> But instead of simply admitting his mistake, went to unnecessary
> lengths to try and cover it up.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> WTF ?????
> Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?

George wrote:
>
> Don't think there is such a thing. I think both propane
> and nat gas must include an odorant (usually methyl mercaptan).


This belief is refuted by several patents to food chemists
at Cargill, such as U.S. Patent 6,610,343:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,610,343

"Most preferably, the solvent is a category I solvent
approved by The Council of the European Committees
(Jun. 13, 1988 Council Directive) for use in food
processing. Food grade propanes and butanes generally
meet all of the above stated preferences."

And it is further refuted by a study made by a
scientist at the USDA:
http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._NO_115=121505

"A new commercial invention incorporating a supercritical,
low-pressure, liquified gas extraction process using
food-grade butane as the extraction gas is currently
being used to extract chocolate liquor and peanuts and
the oil and residue solids are both edible products."

And just for fun, here's a new one from the
Propane Education & Research Council (PERC):
http://www.propanecouncil.org/files/
11352_EEA_GoodPractices_Report_Final.PDF

"The requirement to add odorant can be waived in
special-use applications, such as aerosol propellants
and food and drug products where the odorant has a
detrimental effect on the final product."


Note, Bob, I'm not saying that you denied that
there is such a thing as odorless, food-grade
propane or butane. You were much more clever
about that. You admitted that such a product
exists, but then you asserted that:

A) I recommended buying food-grade propane.
B) You can't buy food-grade propane.

A was purely an invention on your part, so you
could attack me for B. That would have worked
if I hadn't pointed out that I never said A.
I never recommended buying anything.

I didn't make a recommendation on what people
should buy. I've never made creme brulee,
but I think I remember seeing a cooking show
in which an electric barbeque stater was used.
If it worked, I'd use that method. But I wasn't
absolutely sure that I'd seen it, and I couldn't
even remember which show, so I didn't make
that recommendation.

"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
> Gas ovens have food in the way of the exhaust fumes which
> are vented from the top of the heat chamber above the food.
> You've talked crap about that, too.

I've used lots of gas ovens, and in none of them
was the food in the path of the flame exhaust.
The burner heated a metal box, and the food
was placed in the box. If there was an upper
burner inside the box, the exhaust from that
burner went out its own passage, away from
the food.

The oven I have now only has a lower burner,
which is below the floor of the chamber in
which the food is cooked. My previous gas
oven also had this arrangement, and in addition
had an upper burner inside the chamber.
Am I totally clear about that? Lower burner
is outside (below) the chamber. Upper burner
(with exposed flame) is inside the chamber,
but the upper burner has its own passage at
the top rear of the chamber through which its
exhaust gases are removed. At no time is
the food in the stream of exhaust gases from
the flames of any burner in either oven
configuration.

I've never seen a gas oven in which the lower
burner is inside the chamber in which the
food is cooked, and yet you seem to be saying
that is the way some gas ovens work.
Am I misinterpreting your assertion?

Mark Thorson wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >
> > Why don't you just stop posting about this. You've been shown to be
> > wrong on *all* counts of your offerings.
>
> That's not at all true. For example, a few people
> have asserted that there is no such thing as an
> odorless food-grade propane and/or butane:
>
> Steve Wertz wrote:
> >
> > I think somebody was maybe confusing food grade gases such as CO2
> > or N2O and figured there must be a food grade version of
> > propane/butane, too...
> >
> > But instead of simply admitting his mistake, went to unnecessary
> > lengths to try and cover it up.
>
> Dave Smith wrote:
> >
> > WTF ?????
> > Where the hell did you come up with this food grade propane stuff?

Yes.... where did you come up with this idea that you have to use food grade propane for food? Where does a person who wants to caramelize sugar get hold of food
grade propane?
Can you get it in a hardware store or do you have to go to a special restaurant supplies dealer?


>
>
> George wrote:
> >
> > Don't think there is such a thing. I think both propane
> > and nat gas must include an odorant (usually methyl mercaptan).
>
> This belief is refuted by several patents to food chemists
> at Cargill, such as U.S. Patent 6,610,343:
>

Sure. There is a patent for it, but where does a person who wants to caramelize sugar buy it?

You can't.

Mark Thorson wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >
> > Gas ovens have food in the way of the exhaust fumes which
> > are vented from the top of the heat chamber above the food.
> > You've talked crap about that, too.
>
> I've used lots of gas ovens, and in none of them
> was the food in the path of the flame exhaust.
> The burner heated a metal box, and the food
> was placed in the box. If there was an upper
> burner inside the box, the exhaust from that
> burner went out its own passage, away from
> the food.
>

I use a gas BBQ. The burner is at the bottom. Burning gas heats
the rocks which act to distribute the heat more evenly. My food
is directly exposed to that non food grade propane. My propane
supplier deals in propane and natural gas for stoves, ovens and
BBQs. There in no food grade gas to be had there.

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:


You chickenshit.
I took the time to Google the ugly stuff about Kellogg, and you are
ignoring it.

Here it is again:

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> >
> > In article >,
> > Mark Thorson > wrote:
> >
> > > OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> > > >
> > > > He also promoted Clitoridectomy.
> > >
> > > What is your source of information on that?
> > > I've read quite a lot about JH Kellogg, and
> > > I've never heard that before.
> >
> > I'm too lazy to google it right now......
> >
> > but I read it in an article on Infibulation.
> >
> > The dude was mentally ill.
>
> I've Googled it, and I can't find any documentation
> that Kellogg ever performed a clitoridectomy.
> You have been misinformed.

Not quite what I was looking for, but here is a start:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Kellogg.html

Here is the most famous quote from him:
Covering the organs with a cage has been practiced with entire success.
A remedy which is almost always successful in small boys is
circumcision, especially when there is any degree of phimosis. The
operation should be performed by a surgeon without administering an
anaesthetic, as the brief pain attending the operation will have a
salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the
idea of punishment, as it may well be in some cases. The soreness which
continues for several weeks interrupts the practice, and if it had not
previously become too firmly fixed, it may be forgotten and not resumed.
If any attempt is made to watch the child, he should be so carefully
surrounded by vigilance that he cannot possibly transgress without
detection. If he is only partially watched, he soon learns to elude
observation, and thus the effect is only to make him cunning in his
vice. (p 295)
In females, the author has found the application of pure carbolic acid
to the clitoris an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement,
and preventing the recurrence of the practice in those whose will-power
has become so weakened that the patient is unable to exercise entire
self-control. (p 297)

This is better.

http://www.highaltitudeimports.com/p...ad.php?t=28537

Nonetheless, if carbolic acid did not do the trick, Kellogg reasoned it
was necessary to surgically remove the clitoris. He cites one such
surgery, performed by him, at the request of the girl's father. Sure
that his 10 year old would go to hell for her sinful indulgence, the
father had resolved he would rather take her out in the wilderness and
leave her to die rather than have her infect the minds of her siblings
with her evil ways. Kellogg and cliterodectomy were her only hope for
continued life and salvation.
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
Mark Thorson > wrote:

> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> >
> > Mark Thorson wrote:
> > > "Bob (this one)" wrote:
> > >
> > >>Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane
> > >>for cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can.
> > >
> > > Bob, please provide a quote in which I said
> > > people should buy propane (of any type),
> > > or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.
> >
> > Mark, you're astonishing in your ignorance and subsequent weaselness.
> > Here's your quote:
> >
> > >Food-grade propane is odorless.
> > >If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
> If that's the best you can do, I guess you're
> admitting that you just pulled it out of your ass.

Uh, no, it's EXACTLY what you said.
Are you forgetting to take your meds?

Ginko Biloba helps the memory......
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> And just for fun, here's a new one from the
> Propane Education & Research Council (PERC):
> http://www.propanecouncil.org/files/
> 11352_EEA_GoodPractices_Report_Final.PDF

Here's that link, repaired so it's clickable:
http://www.propanecouncil.org/files/...port_Final.PDF

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:46:15 -0800, Mark Thorson >
wrote:

>"Bob (this one)" wrote:
>>
>> Mark Thorson wrote:
>> > "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>> >
>> >>Oh, bullshit. You said that people should buy odor-free propane
>> >>for cooking and it's clearly impossible. No one can.
>> >
>> > Bob, please provide a quote in which I said
>> > people should buy propane (of any type),
>> > or admit you just pulled that out of your ass.
>>
>> Mark, you're astonishing in your ignorance and subsequent weaselness.
>> Here's your quote:
>>
>> >Food-grade propane is odorless.
>> >If it has an odor, don't use it for food.
>
>If that's the best you can do, I guess you're
>admitting that you just pulled it out of your ass.


I'd like to warn anyone who pulls propane out his ass, to keep away
from open flame....

Boron

On 2006-01-10, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>
> I've never seen a gas oven in which the lower
> burner is inside the chamber in which the
> food is cooked.....

You've never seen a gas broiler?

nb

Mark Thorson wrote:
> "Bob (this one)" wrote:
>
>>Gas ovens have food in the way of the exhaust fumes which
>>are vented from the top of the heat chamber above the food.
>>You've talked crap about that, too.
>
>
> I've used lots of gas ovens, and in none of them
> was the food in the path of the flame exhaust.

BZZZZZZZZZT.

You're a moron who simply cannot back away from your own nonsense.

Almost all gas ovens let you see the light of the flame. That means that
exhaust fumes are in that space. Period.

Pastorio