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In article >,
cathyxyz > wrote:

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:


> > I agree with you Cathy. Never until reading it here have I heard of people
> > going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to be served,
> > much less writing a review of it afterward, and even comparing it to a host
> > of other funeral meals they've had.

>
> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
>
> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
> everything. :-)
>
> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses


This hurts me. I respect both of you, but I just can't agree. We all
deal with grief in different ways. There is different tradition and
ritual. There is some kind of saying, which I don't remember, that says
when it goes beyond crying, you have to laugh. That doesn't work for
me, but I won't call it wrong. The concept of food we are seeing here
doesn't work for you, or maybe just isn't in your tradition. That
doesn't mean it is wrong.

I have been through a couple of funeral experiences that were heavily
involved with food, one Japanese Buddhist and one Filipino. These both
combined respect for the dead with the idea that the living needed to
eat to remain healthy and able to deal with what they needed to.

--
Dan Abel

Petaluma, California, USA
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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 01:07:43p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it cathyxyz?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Sun 29 Jan 2006 12:12:35a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>> cathyxyz?
>>
>>> I have attended a few funerals in my time and there has indeed been
>>> food and drink served at the "wake". However, after the service, I did
>>> not go to all my other friends and say "Wow, what great food they had
>>> at that funeral!." I don't even remember what they served at the last
>>> one I went to - it was for a young boy of 18 who had been killed by a
>>> drunk driver. All I remember is the incredible grief. That's what I
>>> find ghoulish. And IMHO, no matter how one dies it is ALWAYS a
>>> terrible thing for the ones left behind. I know that having a wake or
>>> whatever you want to call it is traditional in most religions; I don't
>>> have a problem with that - but I still feel that discussing the food
>>> served afterward, with strangers - who never even knew the deceased,
>>> is not something I can bring myself to do.

>>
>> I agree with you Cathy. Never until reading it here have I heard of
>> people going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to
>> be served, much less writing a review of it afterward, and even
>> comparing it to a host of other funeral meals they've had.

>
> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
>
> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
> everything. :-)
>
> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses
>


LOL! Yup!

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 03:17:21p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dan Abel?

> In article >,
> cathyxyz > wrote:
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
>> > I agree with you Cathy. Never until reading it here have I heard of
>> > people going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to
>> > be served, much less writing a review of it afterward, and even
>> > comparing it to a host of other funeral meals they've had.

>>
>> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
>>
>> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
>> everything. :-)
>>
>> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses

>
> This hurts me. I respect both of you, but I just can't agree. We all
> deal with grief in different ways. There is different tradition and
> ritual. There is some kind of saying, which I don't remember, that says
> when it goes beyond crying, you have to laugh. That doesn't work for
> me, but I won't call it wrong. The concept of food we are seeing here
> doesn't work for you, or maybe just isn't in your tradition. That
> doesn't mean it is wrong.
>
> I have been through a couple of funeral experiences that were heavily
> involved with food, one Japanese Buddhist and one Filipino. These both
> combined respect for the dead with the idea that the living needed to
> eat to remain healthy and able to deal with what they needed to.


I'm sorry, Dan. Perhaps I haven't been clear. Of the funerals I have
attended in my life, there has always been food, of which quality and
quantity varied. It was enjoyed by all and especially appreciated by the
family. There was often humor and a glimpse of the lighter side of the
deceased and their family. I'm all for that, in whatever manner a family
may wish to express it. However, most funerals are relatively private
affairs, regardless of the number of people attending.

What I find strange is the "publishing", discussion, and critique of the
meals served, even comparing one funeral meal to others. In a way, I find
it disrespectful to the deceased and their famly.

Now, if someone wants to write such things about the funeral of their
husband, wife, or children, then it's *their* affair and they're welcome to
do so. Obviously, those who write about the former are not likely to write
about the latter.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

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Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> What I find strange is the "publishing", discussion, and critique of
> the meals served, even comparing one funeral meal to others. In a
> way, I find it disrespectful to the deceased and their famly.
>
> Now, if someone wants to write such things about the funeral of their
> husband, wife, or children, then it's *their* affair and they're
> welcome to do so. Obviously, those who write about the former are not
> likely to write about the latter.
>
>


I believe that comparing the differing meals and funeral formats allows a
person to better plan their own. Being that organized scares me...but might
bring a kinda peace to someone else.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 04:50:03p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mr Libido
Incognito?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> What I find strange is the "publishing", discussion, and critique of
>> the meals served, even comparing one funeral meal to others. In a
>> way, I find it disrespectful to the deceased and their famly.
>>
>> Now, if someone wants to write such things about the funeral of their
>> husband, wife, or children, then it's *their* affair and they're
>> welcome to do so. Obviously, those who write about the former are not
>> likely to write about the latter.
>>
>>

>
> I believe that comparing the differing meals and funeral formats allows
> a person to better plan their own. Being that organized scares me...but
> might bring a kinda peace to someone else.
>


I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which it was
done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing. Brining it to an
public forum of cyber-friends is another.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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On 30 Jan 2006 23:14:09 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
<wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sun 29 Jan 2006 12:12:35a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it cathyxyz?
>
>> I have attended a few funerals in my time and there has indeed been food
>> and drink served at the "wake". However, after the service, I did not go
>> to all my other friends and say "Wow, what great food they had at that
>> funeral!." I don't even remember what they served at the last one I went
>> to - it was for a young boy of 18 who had been killed by a drunk driver.
>> All I remember is the incredible grief. That's what I find ghoulish. And
>> IMHO, no matter how one dies it is ALWAYS a terrible thing for the ones
>> left behind. I know that having a wake or whatever you want to call it
>> is traditional in most religions; I don't have a problem with that - but
>> I still feel that discussing the food served afterward, with strangers -
>> who never even knew the deceased, is not something I can bring myself to
>> do.

>
>I agree with you Cathy. Never until reading it here have I heard of people
>going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to be served,
>much less writing a review of it afterward, and even comparing it to a host
>of other funeral meals they've had. I guess if you read Usenet long
>enough, you'll eventually hear everything. :-)



I don't think it is unusual, really. There is even a book about it in
the south:

"Being Dead is No Excuse : The Official Southern Ladies Guide to
Hosting the Perfect Funeral"
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140...lance&n=283155

"From Publishers Weekly
Starred Review. Metcalfe, a lifelong Southerner who's been hiding out
in the social circles of Greenville, Miss., exposes the culinary and
cultural last rites of the deep South in a fashion that is as
sidesplitting as it is politically incorrect, as sincere as it is
backstabbingly brutal. She is capably aided by Hays, a "recovering
gossip columnist" from Washington, D.C. Residents of the Mississippi
Delta, where "polishing silver is the southern lady's version of grief
therapy," take their comfort food semiseriously, be it traditional
Pickled Shrimp, Liketa Died Potatoes (which incorporate both cheddar
cheese and canned cheddar cheese soup) or cream cheese–laden Pecan
Tassies. Nobody would be caught dead without Tomato Aspic at the
funeral, and St. James' Cranberry Congealed Salad topped with
mayonnaise is the dessert of choice. An entire chapter is devoted to
stuffed eggs, and another is dedicated to dishes that use canned soup
as their base ("Nothing whispers sympathy quite like a frozen-pea
casserole with canned bean sprouts and mushroom soup"). A lengthy
discourse on "The Methodist Ladies vs. the Episcopal Ladies" is
laugh-out-loud funny in its contrast of customs and cuisines and its
consideration of the consolation of a "nice, stiff cocktail." And many
Greenville residents, alive and deceased, drop by for a howdy,
including poor Maribell Wilson, who made the mistake of driving her
daddy's ashes home with the windows down."

I know that around here, it is traditional among many, especially
Italians (this may be just my part of NJ), to go to a restaurant after
the funeral for a luncheon...it is known as a "repast." Sad though a
funeral can be, it should also celebrate the life of the one who has
passed on. I have been to repasts that were filled with jokes, stories
and even songs about the deceased.

As a Jew, the tradition (no religious law, just tradition around here)
is to have the mourners come back to the house for a meal. Often the
family then sits "shivah," a period of mourning for 3 to 7 days during
which they are not supposed to tend to themselves, but depend upon the
kindness of friends and family who bring or send over food for the
family and enough for visitors during the mourning period.

Sometimes the company of the mourners and those who wish to pay
respects helps the immediate family get through the roughest time
among supportive family and friends. It can make push back those first
"alone" house after the hubbub fades and the sadness hits so very
hard. When someone is around to hand a plate of food to a person who
is so sad, and just helps keep them dwelling a bit more in this world
rather than the next, it can help some folks cope.

Each of us grieves in our own way, of course, and some take comfort in
family or ethnic or religious tradition and others like to be alone or
with only those closest to them.

Boron
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Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> On Tue 31 Jan 2006 04:50:03p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mr
> Libido Incognito?
>
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
> >
> >> What I find strange is the "publishing", discussion, and critique
> >> of the meals served, even comparing one funeral meal to others. In
> >> a way, I find it disrespectful to the deceased and their famly.
> >>
> >> Now, if someone wants to write such things about the funeral of
> >> their husband, wife, or children, then it's *their* affair and
> >> they're welcome to do so. Obviously, those who write about the
> >> former are not likely to write about the latter.
> >>
> >>

> >
> > I believe that comparing the differing meals and funeral formats
> > allows a person to better plan their own. Being that organized
> > scares me...but might bring a kinda peace to someone else.
> >

>
> I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which it
> was done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing. Brining
> it to an public forum of cyber-friends is another.
>


Bouncing ideas and concepts off different people is human.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 07:04:02p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mr Libido
Incognito?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>
>> On Tue 31 Jan 2006 04:50:03p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Mr
>> Libido Incognito?
>>
>> > Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>> >
>> >> What I find strange is the "publishing", discussion, and critique
>> >> of the meals served, even comparing one funeral meal to others. In
>> >> a way, I find it disrespectful to the deceased and their famly.
>> >>
>> >> Now, if someone wants to write such things about the funeral of
>> >> their husband, wife, or children, then it's *their* affair and
>> >> they're welcome to do so. Obviously, those who write about the
>> >> former are not likely to write about the latter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > I believe that comparing the differing meals and funeral formats
>> > allows a person to better plan their own. Being that organized
>> > scares me...but might bring a kinda peace to someone else.
>> >

>>
>> I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which it
>> was done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing. Brining
>> it to an public forum of cyber-friends is another.
>>

>
> Bouncing ideas and concepts off different people is human.


I'm not questioning nor criticizing that, but I do not think that was what
was done here.

Obviously, there are different opinions amongst those here. Not
surprising. I'm only expressing mine.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 06:14:23p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Boron
Elgar?

> I don't think it is unusual, really. There is even a book about it in
> the south:
>
> "Being Dead is No Excuse : The Official Southern Ladies Guide to
> Hosting the Perfect Funeral"
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140...8004?v=glance&
> n=283155


I am familiar with this book. It's a very interesting and enjoyable read.

> I know that around here, it is traditional among many, especially
> Italians (this may be just my part of NJ), to go to a restaurant after
> the funeral for a luncheon...it is known as a "repast." Sad though a
> funeral can be, it should also celebrate the life of the one who has
> passed on. I have been to repasts that were filled with jokes, stories
> and even songs about the deceased.


I have been to one such Italian "repast". I knew the family very well, The
meal was held at a popular Italian restaurant that the deceased had always
enjoyed. There was much celebrating, sharing, laughing, and tribute. It
was a lovely way to remember the person.

> As a Jew, the tradition (no religious law, just tradition around here)
> is to have the mourners come back to the house for a meal. Often the
> family then sits "shivah," a period of mourning for 3 to 7 days during
> which they are not supposed to tend to themselves, but depend upon the
> kindness of friends and family who bring or send over food for the
> family and enough for visitors during the mourning period.


I am also familiar with this, through friendships were several Jewish
families over the years.

> Sometimes the company of the mourners and those who wish to pay
> respects helps the immediate family get through the roughest time
> among supportive family and friends. It can make push back those first
> "alone" house after the hubbub fades and the sadness hits so very
> hard. When someone is around to hand a plate of food to a person who
> is so sad, and just helps keep them dwelling a bit more in this world
> rather than the next, it can help some folks cope.


I don't doubt this in the least. It's often very helpful, and aids in a
return to some degree of normalcy. A few days after my dad passed away, my
mother wanted to go shopping, not because she wanted or needed anything,
but because it helped her move forward and reinforce that life does
continue.

> Each of us grieves in our own way, of course, and some take comfort in
> family or ethnic or religious tradition and others like to be alone or
> with only those closest to them.


You're absolutely right. I am not questioning anything that you wrote. I
simply don't agree that the "dead threads" here were in the same spirit.
Apparently I am still failing to make myself clear.

Thanks, Boron.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 07:09:47p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
"Dog3" Lonergan?

> Mr Libido Incognito > looking for trouble wrote in
> :
>
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>>> I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which it
>>> was done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing. Brining
>>> it to an public forum of cyber-friends is another.
>>>

>>
>> Bouncing ideas and concepts off different people is human.
>>

>
> Trying to find a bright side during bad times is human also.


I don't disagree with that, either, but you guys are missing the point of my
statement. As I said, I don't think that is what was going on here, and I
stand by my opinion.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 08:18:43p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
"Dog3" Lonergan?

> Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> looking for trouble
> wrote in 28.19:
>
>> On Tue 31 Jan 2006 07:09:47p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>> Michael "Dog3" Lonergan?
>>
>>> Mr Libido Incognito > looking for trouble wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>>>>> I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which
>>>>> it was done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing.
>>>>> Brining it to an public forum of cyber-friends is another.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bouncing ideas and concepts off different people is human.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Trying to find a bright side during bad times is human also.

>>
>> I don't disagree with that, either, but you guys are missing the point
>> of my statement. As I said, I don't think that is what was going on
>> here, and I stand by my opinion.
>>

>
> Since I've not kept up with the thread; What exactly *is* going on here
>
>
> Michael
>


IMHO, a frivolous critique of the meals that other families choose to
serve after a funeral, often negative. As I said, IMHO.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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In article >,
"Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" > wrote:
> Trying to find a bright side during bad times is human also.
>
> Michael


All of which may be admirable. Like I said, everybody's gotta have a
specialty. "-) And, what the hey, it's about FOOD -- what a novel
concept here. Since I'm kind of a throwback in many respects, maybe
I'll make admission to my own funeral contingent on bringing something
for the Dead Spread. The way it used to be in this neck of the woods
(it wasn't a requirement; it was the custom). "-) I'm thinking that of
the 20 people I'd expect to be interested in attending, at least half
would come across with at least a Jell-o salad or a hotdish. Maybe some
bars, even. If I get information about lead time, shoot -- maybe I'll
cook it myself and stash it in the freezer. It'll save Pastorio some
work. :-)

Do you know Ole and Lena? They're the fictional (hah!) subjects of a
spate of jokes in these parts -- always told in your best Scandinavian
dialect. I've always liked this one: Ole was feeling poorly and went
to the doctor for a physical. As he was getting dressed the doctor came
in and said "I am sorry Ole, but you are very sick and have only a few
weeks to live". Ole went home with a heavy heart to tell Lena the news.
After Ole told Lena he went upstairs to bed and Lena went to the
kitchen. Soon a heavenly aroma came from the kitchen. Lena was making
his favorite cookies! "Oh, dat Lena!" he thought as his eyes misted, and
climbed out of bed and went into the kitchen and saw all his favorite
treats -- cookies, tea rings and breads cooling on the sideboard and on
the dining room table. Doncha know he reached for a cookie and Lena
slapped his hand away and said "Get avay, Ole! Goldarnit, dese cookies
aren't for you, dere for da funeral!" (*^;^*) Dat Lena's a card, too!
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet
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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 08:52:28p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
"Dog3" Lonergan?

> Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> looking for trouble wrote
> in 28.19:
>
>> On Tue 31 Jan 2006 08:18:43p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Michael
>> "Dog3" Lonergan?
>>
>>> Wayne Boatwright <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> looking for trouble
>>> wrote in 28.19:
>>>
>>>> On Tue 31 Jan 2006 07:09:47p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it
>>>> Michael "Dog3" Lonergan?
>>>>
>>>>> Mr Libido Incognito > looking for trouble wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote on 31 Jan 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>>>>>>> I agree with that, but I don't think it was in that light in which
>>>>>>> it was done. One's own comparison or with family is one thing.
>>>>>>> Brining it to an public forum of cyber-friends is another.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bouncing ideas and concepts off different people is human.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trying to find a bright side during bad times is human also.
>>>>
>>>> I don't disagree with that, either, but you guys are missing the point
>>>> of my statement. As I said, I don't think that is what was going on
>>>> here, and I stand by my opinion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since I've not kept up with the thread; What exactly *is* going on here
>>>
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>

>>
>> IMHO, a frivolous critique of the meals that other families choose to
>> serve after a funeral, often negative. As I said, IMHO.
>>

>
> Next time one of Steven's relatives bites it, you want to sit Shiva with
> me?


Sure, it could be fun! ;-)

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 08:38:37p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Melba's
Jammin'?

> In article >,
> "Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan" > wrote:
>> Trying to find a bright side during bad times is human also.
>>
>> Michael

>
> All of which may be admirable. Like I said, everybody's gotta have a
> specialty. "-) And, what the hey, it's about FOOD -- what a novel
> concept here. Since I'm kind of a throwback in many respects, maybe
> I'll make admission to my own funeral contingent on bringing something
> for the Dead Spread. The way it used to be in this neck of the woods
> (it wasn't a requirement; it was the custom). "-) I'm thinking that of
> the 20 people I'd expect to be interested in attending, at least half
> would come across with at least a Jell-o salad or a hotdish.


<snip>

I'll do my best to make a hotdish, though I've never actually seen one.
It's the thought that counts.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

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In article >,
Boron Elgar > wrote:
(snippage)
> I don't think it is unusual, really. There is even a book about it in
> the south:
>
> "Being Dead is No Excuse : The Official Southern Ladies Guide to
> Hosting the Perfect Funeral"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140...8004?v=glance&
n=283
155

Great book. My guidebook. I'm thinking of an essay assessing the state
of Dead Spreads in Minneapolis in January, 2006. Possibly a small book
wherein one could fill in the blanks for one's own DS as a guide for the
survivors to follow. Be a shame to leave it to chance. "-) Alas,
prolly no caramel cakes for me.

OB Food: Cherry Berry Jam (with black raspberries instead of red) and a
cherry-pepper-onion relish with the extra cherries. Some chipotle
powder from Penzeys gives it a nice kick. Not enough for one to kick
the bucket, though. <whoops>.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet


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On Tue 31 Jan 2006 10:26:01p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Melba's
Jammin'?

> In article >,
> Boron Elgar > wrote:
> (snippage)
>> I don't think it is unusual, really. There is even a book about it in
>> the south:
>>
>> "Being Dead is No Excuse : The Official Southern Ladies Guide to
>> Hosting the Perfect Funeral"

> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/140...8004?v=glance&
> n=283
> 155
>
> Great book. My guidebook. I'm thinking of an essay assessing the state
> of Dead Spreads in Minneapolis in January, 2006. Possibly a small book
> wherein one could fill in the blanks for one's own DS as a guide for the
> survivors to follow. Be a shame to leave it to chance. "-) Alas,
> prolly no caramel cakes for me.


Now I think THAT would be a great idea! Regional differences would be
interesting, too.

Uh, what kind of caramel cake?


> OB Food: Cherry Berry Jam (with black raspberries instead of red) and a
> cherry-pepper-onion relish with the extra cherries. Some chipotle
> powder from Penzeys gives it a nice kick. Not enough for one to kick
> the bucket, though. <whoops>.




--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
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"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
> I don't disagree with that, either, but you guys are missing the point of

my
> statement. As I said, I don't think that is what was going on here, and I
> stand by my opinion.
>


Okay, let me take a whack at it...

1) You have no problem with "funeral meals."
2) You have no problem with a general discussion of how various people
observe
various grief rituals, including funeral meals.
3) You have a problem with someone posting details of said funeral meals,
when:
the post is written as if the writer is writing a restaurant review.


Please note: by "problem", I don't mean you have A PROBLEM, I mean that you
find it disrespectful or distasteful or tacky.

Now do I understand it?

Maybe some times I *don't* need a ton of bricks!

Lisa Ann


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On Wed 01 Feb 2006 12:05:58a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Lisa Ann?

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
> 28.19...
>> I don't disagree with that, either, but you guys are missing the point
>> of my statement. As I said, I don't think that is what was going on
>> here, and I stand by my opinion.
>>

>
> Okay, let me take a whack at it...
>
> 1) You have no problem with "funeral meals."
> 2) You have no problem with a general discussion of how various people
> observe
> various grief rituals, including funeral meals.
> 3) You have a problem with someone posting details of said funeral
> meals, when:
> the post is written as if the writer is writing a restaurant
> review.
>
>
> Please note: by "problem", I don't mean you have A PROBLEM, I mean that
> you find it disrespectful or distasteful or tacky.
>
> Now do I understand it?
>
> Maybe some times I *don't* need a ton of bricks!


In a nutshell.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
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On 1 Feb 2006 03:18:39 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
<wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:

>
>Obviously, there are different opinions amongst those here. Not
>surprising. I'm only expressing mine.


I, for one, am sorry you are upset at all. You are a valuable an
open-minded contributor and if I have said anything to offend, I offer
apologies.

Boron
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On Wed 01 Feb 2006 05:51:28a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Boron
Elgar?

> On 1 Feb 2006 03:18:39 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>Obviously, there are different opinions amongst those here. Not
>>surprising. I'm only expressing mine.

>
> I, for one, am sorry you are upset at all. You are a valuable an
> open-minded contributor and if I have said anything to offend, I offer
> apologies.
>
> Boron


Thank you, Boron, but I'm not really upset. You have said absolutely
nothing to offend me. I always appreciate your viewpoints and look forward
to reading your posts. As I said, I was only expressing my opinion. I was
not expecting anyone else to necessarily agree, although some do. I expect
in any social group that there will be differences of opinion.

Cheers!

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
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Dan Abel > writes:
> cathyxyz > wrote:
>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:


>> > Never until reading it here have I heard of people
>> > going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to be served,
>> > much less writing a review of it afterward, and even comparing it to
>> > a host of other funeral meals they've had.

>>
>> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
>>
>> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
>> everything. :-)
>>
>> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses


>This hurts me. I respect both of you, but I just can't agree. We all
>deal with grief in different ways.


I agree. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but did
cathy (and Wayne) just call those who disagreed with them ignoramuses?
Maybe I misunderstood the context.
As for this particular review, the food was catered. I see nothing
wrong with a critique of a caterer's food, just because it was served at
a funeral.

Stacia

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Wayne Boatwright wrote on 01 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> On Wed 01 Feb 2006 05:51:28a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Boron
> Elgar?
>
> > On 1 Feb 2006 03:18:39 +0100, Wayne Boatwright
> > <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Obviously, there are different opinions amongst those here. Not
> >>surprising. I'm only expressing mine.

> >
> > I, for one, am sorry you are upset at all. You are a valuable an
> > open-minded contributor and if I have said anything to offend, I
> > offer apologies.
> >
> > Boron

>
> Thank you, Boron, but I'm not really upset. You have said absolutely
> nothing to offend me. I always appreciate your viewpoints and look
> forward to reading your posts. As I said, I was only expressing my
> opinion. I was not expecting anyone else to necessarily agree,
> although some do. I expect in any social group that there will be
> differences of opinion.
>
> Cheers!
>


I don't agree with you, but some folks are more respectful of the dead
than others....You have every right to hold a differing opinion than I
(as if I had anything to say or do about that).

I handle strong emotions with disrespect and/or humour, so I find nothing
wrong with the turn of phrase in this thread. Not that I don't honor the
dead...I place flowers on my mom's grave still after 20 yrs and don't
plan on stopping. But death is part of everyone's life and should be
explored and excepted. If comparing foods helps somebody figure out what
they'll do for their's or for a loved one's to make it fit their desires
or make it more special, so be it.

--
The eyes are the mirrors....
But the ears...Ah the ears.
The ears keep the hat up.
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Do you know Ole and Lena? They're the fictional (hah!) subjects of a
> spate of jokes in these parts -- always told in your best Scandinavian
> dialect. I've always liked this one: Ole was feeling poorly and went
> to the doctor for a physical. As he was getting dressed the doctor came
> in and said "I am sorry Ole, but you are very sick and have only a few
> weeks to live". Ole went home with a heavy heart to tell Lena the news.
> After Ole told Lena he went upstairs to bed and Lena went to the
> kitchen. Soon a heavenly aroma came from the kitchen. Lena was making
> his favorite cookies! "Oh, dat Lena!" he thought as his eyes misted, and
> climbed out of bed and went into the kitchen and saw all his favorite
> treats -- cookies, tea rings and breads cooling on the sideboard and on
> the dining room table. Doncha know he reached for a cookie and Lena
> slapped his hand away and said "Get avay, Ole! Goldarnit, dese cookies
> aren't for you, dere for da funeral!" (*^;^*) Dat Lena's a card, too!



That's a new variation for me. I first heard it with the old Jewish
grandfather dying upstairs wanting some of the strudel. I've heard a
generic version (no ethnic group specified) with chocolate chip cookies.
I'm sure I've heard a few more versions with different ethnic groups.
What are the others?


--Lia

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In article >,
Julia Altshuler > wrote:
(Ole and Lena snipped)
> > the dining room table. Doncha know he reached for a cookie and Lena
> > slapped his hand away and said "Get avay, Ole! Goldarnit, dese cookies
> > aren't for you, dere for da funeral!" (*^;^*) Dat Lena's a card, too!

>
>
> That's a new variation for me. I first heard it with the old Jewish
> grandfather dying upstairs wanting some of the strudel. I've heard a
> generic version (no ethnic group specified) with chocolate chip cookies.
> I'm sure I've heard a few more versions with different ethnic groups.
> What are the others?


> --Lia


Other Ole and Lena jokes? Easy to search for. O&L joke books are
common around here in small gift shops. Heavy Scandinavian-ancestor
population.

Ole and Lena OB Food:
Ole came home early from his job at the pickle factory. Lena was
surprised to see him -- his head was hanging and he wasn't moving very
fast.
"Ole, vhat happened to you? Vhy are you home so early?"
"Oh, Lena, I got fired. (He was very embarrassed.) I put my penis in
the pickle slicer."
"Oh, Ole! Are you okay? Vhat happened to the pickle slicer?"
"Oh, she got fired, too."
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 1-27-2006, The Best Dead Spread Yet
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Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> Other Ole and Lena jokes?



Well they're good too, but I was thinking of that specific joke with the
sick/dying person told s/he can't have a particular favorite food
because it's being saved for after the funeral. I absolutely associate
the joke with Jews and got a tickle to discover that nearly every ethnic
group has its own variation.

--Lia



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Julia Altshuler wrote:

> Well they're good too, but I was thinking of that specific joke with the
> sick/dying person told s/he can't have a particular favorite food
> because it's being saved for after the funeral. I absolutely associate
> the joke with Jews and got a tickle to discover that nearly every ethnic
> group has its own variation.


A guy came home from seeing the doctor and told his wife the bad news. He
had a terminal illness and would be dead within 16 hours. She was
devastated by the news and asked if there was anything he wanted. He wasn't
very hungry, but he thought they should make love one last time before his
passed on. So off they went to the bedroom. Later on in the evening he was
feeling a little frisky and asked his wife if they could do it again. So
off they went to the bedroom and did it again. Then at bed time he was
feeling frisky again.

After making love for the third time they fell asleep. He woke up at 3 am
feeling frisky. He tapped her on the shoulder and and suggested that they do
it again. She wasn't very receptive to the idea and he pleaded that it might
be the last chance he has to have sex . She answered "Fine for you. You
don't have to get up in the morning."


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Glitter Ninja > wrote:
> As for this particular review, the food was catered. I see nothing
> wrong with a critique of a caterer's food, just because it was served at
> a funeral.


I've only been to a few funerals, but none were catered. Is this
something common in some parts of the world? When my grandfathers
and grandmother died, all the food was home-cooked and brought by
friends. Their friends brought enough food to feed us (my
family, including two teenage male athletes) for days. Catered food
at a funeral just seems... wrong. Is it common? If it matters,
I am from Northern Wisconsin. Lots of hotdishes at funerals. All
homemade by little old ladies. Not the Jam Mistress, but our own
Jewish old ladies.

J


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J wrote:

>
> I've only been to a few funerals, but none were catered. Is this
> something common in some parts of the world? When my grandfathers
> and grandmother died, all the food was home-cooked and brought by
> friends. Their friends brought enough food to feed us (my
> family, including two teenage male athletes) for days. Catered food
> at a funeral just seems... wrong. Is it common? If it matters,
> I am from Northern Wisconsin. Lots of hotdishes at funerals. All
> homemade by little old ladies. Not the Jam Mistress, but our own
> Jewish old ladies.


Is that not still catered? I remember when it was customary for people going
to a funeral to take a plate of sandwiches, a casserole, some cookies, cake or
something to a funeral. My wife's church caters funerals all the time. The
women's group charges a set amount per person depending on whether they are
having just tea and coffee or if it will include sandwiches, cookies and
veggie plates etc.

Personally, I think it is a bum deal for the ladies. They pay for the
ingredients out of their own pockets. The women's group collects the money and
uses it to buy things for the church. Like many organizations, it is usually a
small group of members who belong to the group, so they are the people who are
always having to provide the goods at their own expense and do all the work.
My mother didn't mind doing it, but what did it for her was when there were
leftovers and the family didn't want them. The same people who had paid for
the ingredients and provided the labour were expected to take them home.....
and to pay for what they took.

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Dave Smith > wrote:
>> I've only been to a few funerals, but none were catered. Is this
>> something common in some parts of the world? When my grandfathers
>> and grandmother died, all the food was home-cooked and brought by
>> friends. Their friends brought enough food to feed us (my
>> family, including two teenage male athletes) for days. Catered food


> Is that not still catered? I remember when it was customary for people going


Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
pay for.

J

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J wrote:

>
>
> > Is that not still catered? I remember when it was customary for people going

>
> Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
> The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
> pay for.


There is no charge at all?
The food at my wife's church is all donated, along with the labour. But the
organization charges a set amount per person.

Personally, I think the system sucks. It's nice that there are people in the
church who will provide to food and do the work. That part of it is great. What I
object to is money being charged and going to the church instead of being used to
reimburse the people who provided it.

It gets a little tricky sometimes. They expect an estimate, and they charge on the
estimate, more if there are more people than anticipated, even though there is no
extra food prepared at the last minute for the extras. There is no rebate if you
have fewer people showing up than anticipated.

Who is to know how many people will show up for a funeral? There were twice as
many people at my father's memorial service than the church could hold. We had no
idea that so many people would come. Then there is the matter of the receptions
being held in churches where the person was not even a member. It's nice that
there is a group of women who will donate the stuff as part of a community effort,
but when they start dealing with outsiders I think these volunteers are being
abused.





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J wrote:

> Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
> The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
> pay for.



I use the word "catered" to mean food and service brought in by a
company that charges the hosts and does that for a living. So a catered
affair might be a wedding or anniversary party where the hosts don't
wish to do the cooking themselves. Instead, they pay the caterers to do
the cooking, serving and clean-up. Guests are not charged and not
expected to bring a dish.


With that in mind, I agree that a catered funeral strikes me as weird.
I've been to one and thought it weird at the time (about 12 years ago).
Instead of friends and family comforting one another, it felt like a
cocktail party-- with great food, by the way. I don't associate catered
funerals with one part of the country or one ethnic group. I just sort
of assumed it was something odd that this one family did.


Now if a friend of the family picks up a platter of food at a restaurant
to bring to the grieving family's home, that, to me is another matter.
It strikes me as rather sweet.


I should make this clear: I'm not knocking other people's customs (or
maybe I am a little). The idea of a catered funeral was odd to me, and
I'm sure I wouldn't do it that way, but that's the way this family
wanted it. Who am I to object?


--Lia

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J wrote:

> I've only been to a few funerals, but none were catered. Is this
> something common in some parts of the world? When my grandfathers
> and grandmother died, all the food was home-cooked and brought by
> friends. Their friends brought enough food to feed us (my
> family, including two teenage male athletes) for days. Catered food
> at a funeral just seems... wrong. Is it common? If it matters,
> I am from Northern Wisconsin. Lots of hotdishes at funerals. All
> homemade by little old ladies. Not the Jam Mistress, but our own
> Jewish old ladies


A lot of the Italian meals after a funeral that I've attended in NY
(always been in the home) have been catered. It simplifies things for
the organizer, and also we've enjoyed a lot of good food. Liquor
(perhaps in excess, lol) is always de rigeur. It ends up being quite the
event to catch up with long lost friends and relatives.
The one Jewish ceremony I attended, out in Hewlett on LI, we went to a
deli for lunch after. Everyone ordered what they wanted and the "host"
picked up the tab.
Goomba
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J wrote:

> Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
> The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
> pay for.
>

noooooooooooooo... that isn't the definition of "catered" at all!
You might as well go to a restaurant in that case?
Catered events can still be "hosted" (paid for, organized, provided).
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In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> There is no charge at all?
> The food at my wife's church is all donated, along with the labour. But the
> organization charges a set amount per person.
>
> Personally, I think the system sucks. It's nice that there are people in the
> church who will provide to food and do the work. That part of it is great.
> What I
> object to is money being charged and going to the church instead of being
> used to
> reimburse the people who provided it.


I don't know if that is a Canadian thing, or peculiar to your wife's
church, or congregation or what, but I've never, ever heard of a church
group charging money to bring food to a funeral. Even for weddings, the
most was a charge for use of the dishes. People just organize for the
occasion, or there is a ministry that is already organized to handle
things like that and they do it.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/
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Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> J wrote:
>
> > Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
> > The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
> > pay for.

>
> I use the word "catered" to mean food and service brought in by a
> company that charges the hosts and does that for a living. So a catered
> affair might be a wedding or anniversary party where the hosts don't
> wish to do the cooking themselves. Instead, they pay the caterers to do
> the cooking, serving and clean-up. Guests are not charged and not
> expected to bring a dish.
>
> With that in mind, I agree that a catered funeral strikes me as weird.
> I've been to one and thought it weird at the time (about 12 years ago).
> Instead of friends and family comforting one another, it felt like a
> cocktail party-- with great food, by the way. I don't associate catered
> funerals with one part of the country or one ethnic group. I just sort
> of assumed it was something odd that this one family did.
>
> Now if a friend of the family picks up a platter of food at a restaurant
> to bring to the grieving family's home, that, to me is another matter.
> It strikes me as rather sweet.
>
> I should make this clear: I'm not knocking other people's customs (or
> maybe I am a little). The idea of a catered funeral was odd to me, and
> I'm sure I wouldn't do it that way, but that's the way this family
> wanted it. Who am I to object?
>
> --Lia


One of our local funeral homes has a hall where the family can invite
the attendees of the service to stay for a lunch. The food was (in the
case of my cousin) provided. I didn't ask if it was an outside caterer,
or if they offer the catering by their employees. There was a small
kitchen situated in one corner of the hall, like an open plan family
room.

......Sharon


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Julia Altshuler wrote:
> J wrote:
>
>> Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
>> The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
>> pay for.

>
>
>
> I use the word "catered" to mean food and service brought in by a
> company that charges the hosts and does that for a living. So a catered
> affair might be a wedding or anniversary party where the hosts don't
> wish to do the cooking themselves. Instead, they pay the caterers to do
> the cooking, serving and clean-up. Guests are not charged and not
> expected to bring a dish.
>
>
> With that in mind, I agree that a catered funeral strikes me as weird.
> I've been to one and thought it weird at the time (about 12 years ago).
> Instead of friends and family comforting one another, it felt like a
> cocktail party-- with great food, by the way. I don't associate catered
> funerals with one part of the country or one ethnic group. I just sort
> of assumed it was something odd that this one family did.
>
>
> Now if a friend of the family picks up a platter of food at a restaurant
> to bring to the grieving family's home, that, to me is another matter.
> It strikes me as rather sweet.
>
>
> I should make this clear: I'm not knocking other people's customs (or
> maybe I am a little). The idea of a catered funeral was odd to me, and
> I'm sure I wouldn't do it that way, but that's the way this family
> wanted it. Who am I to object?
>
>
> --Lia
>

There is such a thin line when it comes to something like this. When
is something catered and when is it not? If I telephone Zabar's and
order several platters of lox and herring and white fish and sturgeon,
as almost all mourners in this neighborhood do, it is not considered
a catered affair. If, on the other hand, I telephone the restaurant
down the block and order hot and cold appetizers instead, it most
likely would be considered a catered meal. A real difference or just
a matter of semantics?

To me, both are right. The time when friends bought everything and
prepared it while the burial was going on in the cemetery in the
suburbs is long gone. The friends may still prepare everything, but
the family will have ordered from either Zabar's or the corner
restaurant. It is a very expensive proposition, if you want to do it
right and you no longer expect others to pay for it. Also, you want
whatever is consumed in you home, to be just so.

When the mourners come back, they will partake of the meal and may
discuss the food. If something is good, they will praise the dish.
If something is not, they will also talk about it. It's human nature.

Lia, if you are Jewish, you will know what I mean. The food is an
article of conversation, as you are not supposed to talk about the
departed's illness and suffering. You talk about other things as
well, but for this occasion, food is important. Eating gives you
something to do and there is nothing wrong in saying afterwards that
either the food that was served was good or bad or not enough or too
much. We all do it, we just have never had the opportunity to post
about it or to have been in a position where we could compare so many
Dead Spreads we attended in such a short time.
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Julia Altshuler wrote:

> J wrote:
>
> > Not IMO. Catering implies people attending have to pay some money.
> > The above was all donated. More of a give than something one must
> > pay for.

>
> I use the word "catered" to mean food and service brought in by a
> company that charges the hosts and does that for a living. So a catered
> affair might be a wedding or anniversary party where the hosts don't
> wish to do the cooking themselves. Instead, they pay the caterers to do
> the cooking, serving and clean-up. Guests are not charged and not
> expected to bring a dish.
>
> With that in mind, I agree that a catered funeral strikes me as weird.
> I've been to one and thought it weird at the time (about 12 years ago).
> Instead of friends and family comforting one another, it felt like a
> cocktail party-- with great food, by the way. I don't associate catered
> funerals with one part of the country or one ethnic group. I just sort
> of assumed it was something odd that this one family did.


A friend of mine who had been living out of the country for a long time was
interred at a local cemetery. My wife looked after the arrangements at this
end. She arranged for the minister of her church to conduct the service and
for a reception to be held at the church hall. The church womens group does
coffee, tea, sandwiches and goodies. The widow wanted to provide a lunch
buffet. My wife ordered cheese and meat platters and salads from a local
deli and cookies and tarts from a woman who caters baked foods. Everything
was delivered to the church the morning of the service and taken care of by
the woman's group. The women's group received a cheque for the coffee and
tea service and extra was thrown in for looking after the other stuff for
us.

In my books, that is catered. It didn't seem odd at all.

When my bother died, my mother held a wake / reception back at the house.
She contacted a local deli and had trays of meat, cheeses, fruit, and baked
goods delivered...... catered.


>
>
> Now if a friend of the family picks up a platter of food at a restaurant
> to bring to the grieving family's home, that, to me is another matter.
> It strikes me as rather sweet.
>
> I should make this clear: I'm not knocking other people's customs (or
> maybe I am a little). The idea of a catered funeral was odd to me, and
> I'm sure I wouldn't do it that way, but that's the way this family
> wanted it. Who am I to object?
>
> --Lia


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RNA Mueller wrote:

> I don't know if that is a Canadian thing, or peculiar to your wife's
> church, or congregation or what, but I've never, ever heard of a church
> group charging money to bring food to a funeral.


The church charges no rent for the hall. It charges for a set fee per person for
coffee, tea and juice. It charges another set fee per person for sandwiches,
veggie plates and desserts . Those things are all provided by the members of the
women's group. IIRC correctly it is $1.25 per person for drinks only or $4.25 for
"the works".

In the case of the reception after my friend's interment service, they charged only
for the drinks. The food was prepared and delivered by a local deli and a baker.
The women's group set everything up, provided dishes and cleaned up.


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Glitter Ninja wrote:
> Dan Abel > writes:
> > cathyxyz > wrote:
> >> Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
> >> > Never until reading it here have I heard of people
> >> > going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to be served,
> >> > much less writing a review of it afterward, and even comparing it to
> >> > a host of other funeral meals they've had.
> >>
> >> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
> >>
> >> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
> >> everything. :-)
> >>
> >> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses

>
> >This hurts me. I respect both of you, but I just can't agree. We all
> >deal with grief in different ways.

>
> I agree. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but did
> cathy (and Wayne) just call those who disagreed with them ignoramuses?
> Maybe I misunderstood the context.


Only saw this now, so sorry for the late response. I cannot speak for
Wayne, but I was referring to Usenet as a whole, not this NG in
particular. I have seen some BS in my time and as they say, I calls it
as I sees it.

> As for this particular review, the food was catered. I see nothing
> wrong with a critique of a caterer's food, just because it was served at
> a funeral.
>

That of course is your prerogative. I personally find it disrepectful
to the deceased to discuss "funeral food" on Usenet, whether it was
catered or not, which is my prerogative.
Cheers
Cathy(xyz)

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On Wed 01 Feb 2006 06:15:46a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Glitter
Ninja?

> Dan Abel > writes:
>> cathyxyz > wrote:
>>> Wayne Boatwright wrote:

>
>>> > Never until reading it here have I heard of people
>>> > going to a funeral anticipating what kind of food was going to be
>>> > served, much less writing a review of it afterward, and even
>>> > comparing it to a host of other funeral meals they've had.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Wayne. Someone finally understood what I meant.
>>>
>>> I guess if you read Usenet long enough, you'll eventually hear
>>> everything. :-)
>>>
>>> Yup, a lot of BS from "big-headed" ignoramuses

>
>>This hurts me. I respect both of you, but I just can't agree. We all
>>deal with grief in different ways.

>
> I agree. I know we are all entitled to our own opinions, but did
> cathy (and Wayne) just call those who disagreed with them ignoramuses?
> Maybe I misunderstood the context.
> As for this particular review, the food was catered. I see nothing
> wrong with a critique of a caterer's food, just because it was served at
> a funeral.


Where did you get that, Stacia? I didn't call anyone anything. I only
expressed that I felt the discussion might be considered disrespectful and
inappropriate.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
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