Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
have no control over the newspaper than published the
offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
and calling for a boycott of Danish products.

We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
counter boycott. Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
protests if they backfire on them.

If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
dressing with Danish blue.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> have no control over the newspaper than published the
> offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> and calling for a boycott of Danish products.
>
> We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> counter boycott. Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> protests if they backfire on them.
>
> If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> dressing with Danish blue.

PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies in
London. They have banners threatening death and destruction to
Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up against them in
defiance and guess what? The police arrested him!!!!!!!!!!

Ophelia wrote:

>
> > If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> > they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> > Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> > for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> > you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> > dressing with Danish blue.
>
> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies in
> London. They have banners threatening death and destruction to
> Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up against them in
> defiance and guess what? The police arrested him!!!!!!!!!!

We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by going to
an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the guests.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>> > If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
>> > they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
>> > Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
>> > for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
>> > you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
>> > dressing with Danish blue.
>>
>> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies in
>> London. They have banners threatening death and destruction to
>> Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up against them
>> in
>> defiance and guess what? The police arrested him!!!!!!!!!!
>
> We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by
> going to
> an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the guests.

Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ophelia wrote:

>
> >>
> >> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies in
> >> London. They have banners threatening death and destruction to
> >> Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up against them
> >> in
> >> defiance and guess what? The police arrested him!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by
> > going to
> > an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the guests.
>
> Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Opps. Can't stoop to their level.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>> >>
>> >> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies in
>> >> London. They have banners threatening death and destruction to
>> >> Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up against
>> >> them
>> >> in
>> >> defiance and guess what? The police arrested him!!!!!!!!!!
>> >
>> > We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by
>> > going to
>> > an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the guests.
>>
>> Oh please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Opps. Can't stoop to their level.

*sigh* please do!

Dave Smith > wrote in
:

>> > If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
>> > they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
>> > Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
>> > for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
>> > you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
>> > dressing with Danish blue.
>>
>> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies
>> in London. They have banners threatening death and destruction
>> to Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up
>> against them in defiance and guess what? The police arrested
>> him!!!!!!!!!!
>
> We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by
> going to an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the
> guests.

You mean exacerbate the situation as a response to justified anger (and
not particularly justified violence)?

Remember that there a 1.6 billion muslims. In fact, they form the
largest single group on the planet. And they turn their dead into
martyrs. The last thing you want to do is make things worse because
killing more of them is not going to improve the situation any nor make
the dead come back to life.

--

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Dom Helder Camara

In article >,
Dave Smith > wrote:

> Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> have no control over the newspaper than published the
> offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> and calling for a boycott of Danish products.
>
> We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> counter boycott. Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> protests if they backfire on them.
>
> If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> dressing with Danish blue.

Absolutely! I bought some havarti this week. The editor of the
French paper who reprinted the cartoons with a statement about freedom
of speech was fired. Nice.

Regards,
Ranee

Remove do not & spam to e-mail me.

"She seeks wool and flax, and works with willing hands." Prov 31:13

http://arabianknits.blogspot.com/
http://talesfromthekitchen.blogspot.com/

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:10:25 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:

> Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> have no control over the newspaper than published the
> offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> and calling for a boycott of Danish products.

The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I think they
are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
Christians in their newspspers daily.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

Dave Smith wrote:
> .... and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence.

Muslims believe it is wrong (the equivalent of blasphemy for
Christians) to produce and display images of Muhammed. These were not
only images, they were insulting cartoons of the person they believe
stands closest to their God. It is expected, normal behavior for
Muslims to take offence.

Didn't the televangelists take offence at the (already cancelled) tv
show that portrayed Jesus looking like a long-haired hippie?

I think believers in all three of the monotheisms that came out of the
desert are wrong, but it has been obvious for centuries that when you
insult believers they get angry.

> We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> counter boycott.

Oh nonsense. I don't owe the Danes shit. I might sympathize with the
innocent getting caught up in generalized protest, but what else is
new? I have more sympathy for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians
that have been killed in the past few years.

> Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> protests if they backfire on them.

More nonsense. People who believe their religion is under attack are
going to change their thinking because you buy more Havarti? What
planet are you living on? -aem

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> have no control over the newspaper than published the
> offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence.

I'm not sure about that last statement about taking offense...in the US, the
fundies have been known to take offense to anything that depicts Jesus in
anything other than their image of him.

>The crime of the Danish government was to
> refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> and calling for a boycott of Danish products.

What is it that you expected the Danish government to do? I'm confused by
your statement. Were they supposed to intervene with the paper and prohibit
the cartoon from being published? Or were they supposed to intervene with
the protesters and somehow stop the boycott? Both are free speech.

Personally, I got a chuckle out of the cartoon, but I'm not Muslim. Maybe
I'd feel differently if I were.

That being said...any excuse to buy Danish Blue Cheese works for me.

Lisa Ann

On 4 Feb 2006 20:32:50 -0800, "aem" > wrote:

>Dave Smith wrote:
>> .... and no one but a whacked Muslim would
>> even take offence.
>
>Muslims believe it is wrong (the equivalent of blasphemy for
>Christians) to produce and display images of Muhammed. These were not
>only images, they were insulting cartoons of the person they believe
>stands closest to their God. It is expected, normal behavior for
>Muslims to take offence.

No it isn't This is fundie started & fundie fueled. There is a long a
beautiful history of images in Islam. Ever seen any Persian
miniatures?
>
>Didn't the televangelists take offence at the (already cancelled) tv
>show that portrayed Jesus looking like a long-haired hippie?
>
>I think believers in all three of the monotheisms that came out of the
>desert are wrong, but it has been obvious for centuries that when you
>insult believers they get angry.

Then maybe all of them need to be smack on the bottom and set to bed
without dinner to teach them all a lesson.
>
> > We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
>> counter boycott.
>
>Oh nonsense. I don't owe the Danes shit. I might sympathize with the
>innocent getting caught up in generalized protest, but what else is
>new? I have more sympathy for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians
>that have been killed in the past few years.

I think it would be nice to stand up to religious bigotry. There are
any number of ways it can be done.
>
>> Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
>> protests if they backfire on them.
>
>More nonsense. People who believe their religion is under attack are
>going to change their thinking because you buy more Havarti? What
>planet are you living on? -aem


These are insane fundies. Think of them as Pat Roberston on a prayer
rug.

Boron

sf wrote:

>
> The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
> terrorist and that's what made them so mad.

There are no pictures of the prophet Mohammed, so it probably doesn't look
like the original at all. It's just speculation. Given their
predisposition to name their children Mohammed, it could be any one of
several million Mohammeds.

> In any case, I think they
> are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
> Christians in their newspspers daily.

I guess that is because they figure it is different. Those are the idols
of the infidels, so naturally subject to abuse.

aem wrote:

> Muslims believe it is wrong (the equivalent of blasphemy for
> Christians) to produce and display images of Muhammed. These were not
> only images, they were insulting cartoons of the person they believe
> stands closest to their God. It is expected, normal behavior for
> Muslims to take offence.
>
> Didn't the televangelists take offence at the (already cancelled) tv
> show that portrayed Jesus looking like a long-haired hippie?

You can take offence without burning down buildings and threatening to kill
and kidnap.


> I think believers in all three of the monotheisms that came out of the
> desert are wrong, but it has been obvious for centuries that when you
> insult believers they get angry.

then they should learn to deal with their frustration in a healthier
manner.

>
> > We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> > counter boycott.
>
> Oh nonsense. I don't owe the Danes shit.

I do. My father was shot down over Denmark during the war, and a lot of
Danes risked their lives to help him escape to Sweden. But on a more
general note, the thing that has really ****ed off the Moslems is that the
Danish prime minister has refused to intervene because he considers it to
be a matter of freedom of speech. That is a principle that most of us in
the west value and we would hate to see that freedom lost because of
threats of violence from fundamentalist thugs.


> > Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> > protests if they backfire on them.
>
> More nonsense. People who believe their religion is under attack are
> going to change their thinking because you buy more Havarti? What
> planet are you living on? -aem

There aim is to punish Denmark economically. If people stop buying Danish
foods or stores are afraid to sell Danish products for fear of Islamic
reprisals they win and will continue the tactic. If people rebel at their
boycott and and sales increase, the boycott backfires.

sf > writes:

>The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
>terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I think they
>are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
>Christians in their newspspers daily.

I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take criticism
because that religion is false. Islam is the truth so in their eyes any
criticism must be fought. If they do not fight against criticism of
their religion, it is offensive to their God.

Stacia

Glitter Ninja wrote:

> sf > writes:
>
> >The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
> >terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I think they
> >are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
> >Christians in their newspspers daily.
>
> I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
> gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
> Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take criticism
> because that religion is false. Islam is the truth so in their eyes any
> criticism must be fought. If they do not fight against criticism of
> their religion, it is offensive to their God.

If there was truth to religion they would stand up to scrutiny and not have
to protect themselves with the coercive pressures of rules of blasphemy. If
they felt there was nothing to fear they wouldn't have to threaten
consequences on Earth.

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:06:39 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Glitter Ninja wrote:
>
>> sf > writes:
>>
>> >The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
>> >terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I think they
>> >are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
>> >Christians in their newspspers daily.
>>
>> I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
>> gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
>> Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take criticism
>> because that religion is false. Islam is the truth so in their eyes any
>> criticism must be fought. If they do not fight against criticism of
>> their religion, it is offensive to their God.
>
>If there was truth to religion they would stand up to scrutiny and not have
>to protect themselves with the coercive pressures of rules of blasphemy. If
>they felt there was nothing to fear they wouldn't have to threaten
>consequences on Earth.

From God's mouth to your ears...

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:10:25 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
>have no control over the newspaper than published the
>offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
>even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
>refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
>speech.

Freedom of speech is a secular idol that we cherish and is often used,
as in this case, to provoke.

The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
they were doing and where this would lead. These were not individual
cartoons part of a daily series or political commentary. They were
commissioned to challenge the religious proscription against
representation of certain images. The paper got what they intended.
If they had wanted to avoid anger and protests, they wouldn't have
used such an in-your-face campaign to break the taboo.

Of course all of us who believe in free speech can support the burning
of the Danish flag and the angry marches as a freedom of speech
actions. Those who condone the plowing down of a McDonald's in France
can understand the passions behind destruction of embassy property.
Those who boycott French cheeses and wines because of international
disputes can understand the boycott of Danish products. These are the
weapons that some people use to retaliate against those who offend
them.

The cartoonists and newspapers have made their point about artistic
expression, freedom of speech, and the value of jerking some chains to
get reactions and attention; the radical Muslims are making their
point about being offended.

The actors are following the script.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Curly Sue wrote:

> >Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> >have no control over the newspaper than published the
> >offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> >even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> >refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> >speech.
>
> Freedom of speech is a secular idol that we cherish and is often used,
> as in this case, to provoke.

True enough, but it is an interesting sort of provocation. I suppose that
it could be said that they were provoking a reaction from a group that
suppresses freedom of speech, freedom of thought and freedom of religion.

> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
> they were doing and where this would lead.

How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
of arson? There is a good chance that the people who are protesting and
rioting never even saw the cartoons, just like the Christians who
protested movies like The Last Temptation of Christ, or the Moslems who
protested Salmon Rushdie's Satanic Verses.


> These were not individual
> cartoons part of a daily series or political commentary. They were
> commissioned to challenge the religious proscription against
> representation of certain images. The paper got what they intended.
> If they had wanted to avoid anger and protests, they wouldn't have
> used such an in-your-face campaign to break the taboo.

True. That was done by the papers. More accurately, it was a decision made
by the editors of the paper. It was not the Danish people. It was not the
Danish Government.

> Those who boycott French cheeses and wines because of international
> disputes can understand the boycott of Danish products. These are the
> weapons that some people use to retaliate against those who offend
> them.

That would exclude me. The boycott of French products was an American
issue because France refused to go along with the invasion of Iraq in
order to search for WMDs that the French government did not believe were
there and because they knew that an invasion would result in utter chaos.
They were right on that one. I agreed with them. I made a point of buying
French products over American. I got into the habit of buying French
cheeses and wines.


> The cartoonists and newspapers have made their point about artistic
> expression, freedom of speech, and the value of jerking some chains to
> get reactions and attention; the radical Muslims are making their
> point about being offended.
>
> The actors are following the script.

They have certainly exposed the Islamic world for what it is, and we need
to choose sides.

Lisa Ann wrote:
> "Dave Smith" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
>>have no control over the newspaper than published the
>>offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
>>even take offence.
>
>
> I'm not sure about that last statement about taking offense...in the US, the
> fundies have been known to take offense to anything that depicts Jesus in
> anything other than their image of him.
>
>

How many embassies have they burned down? Taking offense is different
than taking advantage of that offense to to promote violence and mayhem.
I find a lot of what Sheldon says to be offensive, but I haven't
burned down the newsgroup.

BTW, I'm curious about who drew those extra 3 extra-offensive cartoons
that were being distributed in the Middle East to incite riots.

Bob

(Glitter Ninja) wrote in
:

> sf > writes:
>
>>The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as
>>a terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I
>>think they are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of
>>Jews and Christians in their newspspers daily.

But not caricatures of Moses or Jesus. They hold Moses and Jesus to be
Prophets equal to Muhammad, although they hold that Muhammad being the
most recent is the more accurate.

> I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
> gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
> Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take
> criticism because that religion is false.

Not true. Islam recognizes Christianity and Judaism as divinely
revealed religions. However, they do believe that the revelations have
been corrupted and it is the corruption that they attack.

You can argue that that is hypocritical, but that won't change
anything. Personally, I don't like the idea of someone, either George
Bush or some Shi'ah leader, telling me that I *must* live in a
theocracy. But I can see their point. If people who profess to being
Christians cannot clean the corruption in their relationship to their
holy book, why should anyone have respect for them? Much the same
holds for Randites and Marxists...and for Muslims too.

Unfortunately for our point of view, they outnumber us.

--

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Dom Helder Camara

Dave Smith > wrote in
:

>> The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as
>> a terrorist and that's what made them so mad.
>
> There are no pictures of the prophet Mohammed, so it probably
> doesn't look like the original at all. It's just speculation.
> Given their predisposition to name their children Mohammed, it
> could be any one of several million Mohammeds.

However, it is a purported representation.

--

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Dom Helder Camara

Dave Smith > writes:
>Curly Sue wrote:

>> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
>> they were doing and where this would lead.

>How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
>of arson?

Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
antagonize, end of story.

>by the editors of the paper. It was not the Danish people. It was not the
>Danish Government.

Good point. I haven't seen anyone on any of the political blogs I go
to who has been able to justify boycotting a Danish cheesemaker because
of these cartoons. People have to boycott or complain or whatever to
make their point, I guess.
The newspaper had the right to publish the cartoons, but they also
have a responsiblity which I feel they shirked, and now unrelated
businesses are suffering for it, plus they deliberately provoked an
entire religion of 1.6 billion people. What could they have hoped to
accomplish?
Or, should I say, Mission Accomplished?

Stacia

Glitter Ninja wrote:

> >> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
> >> they were doing and where this would lead.
>
> >How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
> >of arson?
>
> Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
> entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
> and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
> antagonize, end of story.

There is nothing disingenuous. They probably felt, as do I, that there is
nothing to get upset over. Having lived in freedom and democracy all my life I
have enjoyed not having a religion shoved down my throat and not having to
abide by the rules that various religions make up for themselves.

> The newspaper had the right to publish the cartoons, but they also
> have a responsiblity which I feel they shirked, and now unrelated
> businesses are suffering for it, plus they deliberately provoked an
> entire religion of 1.6 billion people. What could they have hoped to
> accomplish?
> Or, should I say, Mission Accomplished?

Perhaps they should be applauded for the bravery in standing up to the thugs.
They certainly have my support.

sf wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:10:25 -0500, Dave Smith wrote:
>
> > Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> > have no control over the newspaper than published the
> > offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> > even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> > refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> > speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> > and calling for a boycott of Danish products.
>
> The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as a
> terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I think they
> are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of Jews and
> Christians in their newspspers daily.


Yup that is the absolute truth. Their hateful propaganda puts the spin
- meisters of the Third Reich or Stalin's USSR or Castro's Cuba to
absolute shame...Julius Streicher is but a piker compared to the
ignorant goons who infest and run most of the Arab media.

Even the Egyptian popular press constantly spews age - old lies about
Jews, e.g. that they sacrifice Christian children, etc. And this is a
country that is at relative *peace* with Israel...

I've noticed that not a whole lot of Arab newspapers/media are easily
available on - line. There is a *reason* for that...

If you have a shortwave radio you can tune in to some of the Arab state
- run stations that propagate this crap. It's laughable stuff to folx
like us, but not so funny when you realise that many, many millions
consider it gospel truth...

--
Best
Greg

Dave Smith wrote:

> Three cheers for Denmark. They did nothing wrong. The people
> have no control over the newspaper than published the
> offensive cartoons, and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> even take offence. The crime of the Danish government was to
> refuse to intervene because it is a matter of freedom of
> speech. As a result, the Muslims are revolting ....again,
> and calling for a boycott of Danish products.
>
> We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> counter boycott. Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> protests if they backfire on them.


Well said, Dave...


> If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> dressing with Danish blue.


I am going to make the effort to buy Danish food products from now on.
IIRC my local soopermart (Treasure Island in Chicago) sometimes has a
"Danish Food Week" featuring products from Denmark. I'll have a word
with the manager and make inquires about it...the store has a
relatively sophisticated clientele (also heavily Jewish) so this would
go over well I think.

You also might consider one of those lovely Bang & Olufsen stereo sets
(if only I could afford one!)...

--
Best
Greg

aem wrote:

> Dave Smith wrote:
> > .... and no one but a whacked Muslim would
> > even take offence.
>
> Muslims believe it is wrong (the equivalent of blasphemy for
> Christians) to produce and display images of Muhammed. These were not
> only images, they were insulting cartoons of the person they believe
> stands closest to their God. It is expected, normal behavior for
> Muslims to take offence.
>
> Didn't the televangelists take offence at the (already cancelled) tv
> show that portrayed Jesus looking like a long-haired hippie?
>
> I think believers in all three of the monotheisms that came out of the
> desert are wrong, but it has been obvious for centuries that when you
> insult believers they get angry.
>
> > We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> > counter boycott.
>
> Oh nonsense. I don't owe the Danes shit. I might sympathize with the
> innocent getting caught up in generalized protest, but what else is
> new? I have more sympathy for the tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians
> that have been killed in the past few years.
>
> > Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> > protests if they backfire on them.
>
> More nonsense. People who believe their religion is under attack are
> going to change their thinking because you buy more Havarti? What
> planet are you living on? -aem


Well and eloquently put, Neville Chamberlain...

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:

>
> > We owe it to our Danish friends and to ourselves to run a
> > counter boycott. Maybe the Moslems will stop these silly
> > protests if they backfire on them.
>
> Well said, Dave...
>
> > If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> > they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> > Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> > for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> > you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> > dressing with Danish blue.
>
> I am going to make the effort to buy Danish food products from now on.
> IIRC my local soopermart (Treasure Island in Chicago) sometimes has a
> "Danish Food Week" featuring products from Denmark. I'll have a word
> with the manager and make inquires about it...the store has a
> relatively sophisticated clientele (also heavily Jewish) so this would
> go over well I think.

You might remind them about how the Danes rallied to save the Jews when
the Nazis tried to round them up.

Dave Smith wrote:

> aem wrote:
> > Oh nonsense. I don't owe the Danes shit.
>
> I do. My father was shot down over Denmark during the war, and a lot of
> Danes risked their lives to help him escape to Sweden. But on a more
> general note, the thing that has really ****ed off the Moslems is that the
> Danish prime minister has refused to intervene because he considers it to
> be a matter of freedom of speech. That is a principle that most of us in
> the west value and we would hate to see that freedom lost because of
> threats of violence from fundamentalist thugs.


Remember the Danish resistance to the Nazi occupiers during WWII. They
managed to evacuate a goodly number of Jews to safe haven (at great
risk to themselves). IIRC when the Nazis stipulated that Jews must
wear a yellow Star of David the Danish royal family as a sign of
solidarity donned yellow Stars too...

Much of this resistance was passive - aggressive and often took
something of a comical turn - but it was fairly effective. The Danes
have lessons for us all...

--
Best
Greg

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:28:50 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter
Ninja) wrote:

>Dave Smith > writes:
>>Curly Sue wrote:
>
>>> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
>>> they were doing and where this would lead.
>
>>How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
>>of arson?
>
> Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
>entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
>and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
>antagonize, end of story.

Bullshit. Pure, unadulterated bullshit.

The paper, with a circulation of about 150k, by the way, is a liberal
one. Below is a quote from an interview from Newsweek with the section
editor who made the decision to publish.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179140/site/newsweek/


ROSE: I was concerned about a tendency toward self-censorship among
people in artistic and cultural circles in Europe. That's why I
commissioned these cartoons, to test this tendency and to start a
debate about it.

It was not a media stunt. We just approached that story in a different
way, by asking Danish cartoonists to draw Muhammad as they see him. I
did not ask for caricatures. I did not ask to make the prophet a
laughingstock or to mock him.

But you depicted Muhammad with a bomb in his turban, armed with a
knife and with a broken halo that resembled satanic horns.
The cartoon with horns didn't arouse special criticism; it was the
other two. The one with the bomb in his turban doesn't say, "All
Muslims are terrorists," but says, "Some people have taken Islam
hostage to permit terrorist and extremist acts." These cartoons do not
treat Muslims in any other way than we treat other citizens in this
country. By treating them as equals, we are saying, "You are equal."


And from the overall paper editor;

http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=25487
Open Letter to Fellow Muslim Citizens

Honourable Fellow Citizens of the Muslim World
Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten is a strong proponent of democracy and
freedom of religion. The newspaper respects the right of any human
being to practise his or her religion. Serious misunderstandings in
respect of some drawings of the Prophet Mohammed have led to much
anger and, lately, also boycott of Danish goods in Muslim countries.

Please allow me to correct these misunderstandings.

On 30 September last year, Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten published 12
different cartoonists' idea of what the Prophet Mohammed might have
looked like. The initiative was taken as part of an ongoing public
debate on freedom of expression, a freedom much cherished in Denmark.

In our opinion, the 12 drawings were sober. They were not intended to
be offensive, nor were they at variance with Danish law, but they have
indisputably offended many Muslims for which we apologize.

Since then a number of offensive drawings have circulated in The
Middle East which have never been published in Morgenavisen
Jyllands-Posten and which we would never have published, had they been
offered to us. We would have refused to publish them on the grounds
that they violated our ethical code.

Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten attaches importance to upholding the
highest ethical standards based upon the respect of our fundamental
values. It is so much more deplorable, therefore, that these drawings
were presented as if they had anything to do with Morgenavisen
Jyllands-Posten.

Maybe because of culturally based misunderstandings, the initiative to
publish the 12 drawings has been interpreted as a campaign against
Muslims in Denmark and the rest of the world.

I must categorically dismiss such an interpretation. Because of the
very fact that we are strong proponents of the freedom of religion and
because we respect the right of any human being to practise his or her
religion, offending anybody on the grounds of their religious beliefs
is unthinkable to us.

That this happened was, consequently, unintentional.

As a result of the debate that has been going on about the drawings,
we have met with representatives of Danish Muslims, and these meetings
were held in a positive and constructive spirit. We have also sought
in other ways to initiate a fruitful dialogue with Danish Muslims.

It is the wish of Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten that various ethnic
groups should live in peace and harmony with each other and that the
debates and disagreements which will always exist in a dynamic society
should do so in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

For that reason, Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten has published many
articles describing the positive aspects of integration, for example
in a special supplement entitled The Contributors. It portrayed a
number of Muslims who have had success in Denmark. The supplement was
rewarded by the EU Commission.

Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten takes exception to symbolic acts suited
to demonise specific nationalities, religions and ethnic groups.

Sincerely yours

Carsten Juste
Editor-in-Chief

zxcvbob wrote:

> I find a lot of what Sheldon says to be offensive, but I haven't
> burned down the newsgroup.


Lol...excellent point ;-)

--
Best
Greg

Dave Smith wrote:

> Gregory Morrow wrote:
> > I am going to make the effort to buy Danish food products from now on.
> > IIRC my local soopermart (Treasure Island in Chicago) sometimes has a
> > "Danish Food Week" featuring products from Denmark. I'll have a word
> > with the manager and make inquires about it...the store has a
> > relatively sophisticated clientele (also heavily Jewish) so this would
> > go over well I think.
>
> You might remind them about how the Danes rallied to save the Jews when
> the Nazis tried to round them up.


The owners are Greek but that may very well work :-)

--
Best
Greg

Nuke islam from the planet, they are dogs who will NEVER join the family
of Man.

Even canadians can be brought to bay overf time........:-)

Michel Boucher > wrote:

> Dave Smith > wrote in
> :
>
> >> > If you have children, go out and get them a Lego set. If
> >> > they already have on, by an expansions kit for it. Get some
> >> > Danish Blue cheese or some Havarti. If you want some beer
> >> > for the Super Bowl tomorrow, get some Tubourg or Faxe. If
> >> > you are having wings with the beer, make some Blue Cheese
> >> > dressing with Danish blue.
> >>
> >> PC has gone mad here. The muslims are rioting at the embassies
> >> in London. They have banners threatening death and destruction
> >> to Westerners. The police do nothing!!! One man stood up
> >> against them in defiance and guess what? The police arrested
> >> him!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > We need that guy who decided to fight back against IRA violence by
> > going to an IRA funeral and started lobbing grenades among the
> > guests.
>
> You mean exacerbate the situation as a response to justified anger (and
> not particularly justified violence)?
>
> Remember that there a 1.6 billion muslims. In fact, they form the
> largest single group on the planet. And they turn their dead into
> martyrs. The last thing you want to do is make things worse because
> killing more of them is not going to improve the situation any nor make
> the dead come back to life.

Boron Elgar wrote:

> I think it would be nice to stand up to religious bigotry. There are
> any number of ways it can be done.


The pocketbook method is often a good way. Boycotting or supporting a
group or cause or business via the bottom line is often very, very
effective...tyrants and despots know this and so do us informed
consumers :-)

--
Best
Greg

Gregory Morrow wrote:

> > I do. My father was shot down over Denmark during the war, and a lot of
> > Danes risked their lives to help him escape to Sweden. But on a more
> > general note, the thing that has really ****ed off the Moslems is that the
> > Danish prime minister has refused to intervene because he considers it to
> > be a matter of freedom of speech. That is a principle that most of us in
> > the west value and we would hate to see that freedom lost because of
> > threats of violence from fundamentalist thugs.
>
> Remember the Danish resistance to the Nazi occupiers during WWII. They
> managed to evacuate a goodly number of Jews to safe haven (at great
> risk to themselves). IIRC when the Nazis stipulated that Jews must
> wear a yellow Star of David the Danish royal family as a sign of
> solidarity donned yellow Stars too...
>
> Much of this resistance was passive - aggressive and often took
> something of a comical turn - but it was fairly effective. The Danes
> have lessons for us all...

My father had to walk across the island of Sjaelland in 1943. Anyone got helping
him would have been executed by the Germans. On his way across he stopped at a
half dozen farm houses to ask for food and water. Nobody turned him down, and
nobody turned him in. One family invited him in for Easter dinner. Some of the
Resistance people who helped him were the same people who helped get the Jews
out safely.

The Resistance was widespread. My father was taken to the police station in
Copenhagen to get a set of identity papers, and it was the police that provided
the colour code of the day to flash if approached by a German patrol boat.

When he got to Sweden they had to put hm in jail for a few days, but when he was
released the police in Malmo gave him and the Dane who escaped with him a set of
gold cuff links.

The way I figure it is that we have the option of siding with the sort of people
who would fight to maintain the sort of personal freedoms that we value, or to
support the religious fanatics.

I sure am enjoying my Tubourg beer, and Moslems wouldn't let me do that.
:-)

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:08:26 -0500, Dave Smith
> wrote:


>I sure am enjoying my Tubourg beer, and Moslems wouldn't let me do that.

You better hope some of the Baptist sects don't take over, either.

Boron

Boron Elgar wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:08:26 -0500, Dave Smith
> > wrote:
>
> >I sure am enjoying my Tubourg beer, and Moslems wouldn't let me do that.
>
> You better hope some of the Baptist sects don't take over, either.

I won't be able to have sex standing up either. Baptists are afraid that it
might lead to dancing.

:-)

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:33:10 -0500, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sun, 5 Feb 2006 21:28:50 +0000 (UTC), (Glitter
>Ninja) wrote:
>
>>Dave Smith > writes:
>>>Curly Sue wrote:
>>
>>>> The media sources which printed and reprinted the cartoons knew what
>>>> they were doing and where this would lead.
>>
>>>How could they know that it would lead to violent demonstrations and acts
>>>of arson?
>>
>> Don't be disingenuous. The cartoons (there are 13 of them) are almost
>>entirely negative and were the product of months of newspapers provoking
>>and criticising the Muslims in their country. They did it to
>>antagonize, end of story.
>
>Bullshit. Pure, unadulterated bullshit.
>
>The paper, with a circulation of about 150k, by the way, is a liberal
>one.

Specifically, liberal-independent-right-wing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-Posten

> Below is a quote from an interview from Newsweek with the section
>editor who made the decision to publish.
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11179140/site/newsweek/
>
>
>>ROSE: I was concerned about a tendency toward self-censorship among
>>people in artistic and cultural circles in Europe. That's why I
>>commissioned these cartoons, to test this tendency and to start a
>>debate about it.

Oh sure. Not by starting it with discussion or civil discourse with
the interested parties, but by firing a shot and see where it hits.

>>(ROSE) It was not a media stunt.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!

>>(ROSE) These cartoons do not
>>treat Muslims in any other way than we treat other citizens in this
>>country. By treating them as equals, we are saying, "You are equal."

Except that he commissioned cartoonists to do this highlighted series
rather than simply run them one at a time at random.

These guys can blah-blah all they want about their high-minded ideals
and who they didn't want to offend, but there's no doubt that they
were looking for a rumble. So they got it.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

Michel Boucher wrote:
>
> (Glitter Ninja) wrote in
> :
>
> > sf > writes:
> >
> >>The Danish caricature depicted Mohamed (not just "any muslim") as
> >>a terrorist and that's what made them so mad. In any case, I
> >>think they are being hypocritical because they put caricatures of
> >>Jews and Christians in their newspspers daily.
>
> But not caricatures of Moses or Jesus. They hold Moses and Jesus to be
> Prophets equal to Muhammad, although they hold that Muhammad being the
> most recent is the more accurate.

YOu must never have lived in a Muslim neighbourhood. They do indeed
caricature Moses and Jesus. And they do not consider Moses and Jesus as
prophets equal to Muhammed.
>
> > I just read a post on LiveJournal (I can link it if you want) by a
> > gentleman who spent some years in the Middle East. He said that a
> > Muslim traditionalist will say that other religions can take
> > criticism because that religion is false.
>
> Not true. Islam recognizes Christianity and Judaism as divinely
> revealed religions. However, they do believe that the revelations have
> been corrupted and it is the corruption that they attack.

Islam recognises Islam as being superior to Christianity and Judaism.
Muslims believe that Jesus isn't God; that really is blasphemy to a
Christian.
>
> You can argue that that is hypocritical, but that won't change
> anything. Personally, I don't like the idea of someone, either George
> Bush or some Shi'ah leader, telling me that I *must* live in a
> theocracy. But I can see their point. If people who profess to being
> Christians cannot clean the corruption in their relationship to their
> holy book, why should anyone have respect for them? Much the same
> holds for Randites and Marxists...and for Muslims too.
>
> Unfortunately for our point of view, they outnumber us.

They don't. There are only about one billion Muslims on the planet. The
rest of the world's population (about 5 billion plus) isn't Muslim. Non
Muslims outnumber Muslims by rather a large margin.
>
> --
>
> "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
> the poor have no food, they call me a communist."
>
> Dom Helder Camara

Arri London > wrote in
:

>> But not caricatures of Moses or Jesus. They hold Moses and Jesus
>> to be Prophets equal to Muhammad, although they hold that
>> Muhammad being the most recent is the more accurate.
>
> YOu must never have lived in a Muslim neighbourhood.

I lived in a Muslim country, does that count? I also studied Islam,
does that count? But obviously your experience far outweighs mine...

> They do
> indeed caricature Moses and Jesus.

Please provide some examples.

> And they do not consider Moses
> and Jesus as prophets equal to Muhammed.

But they consider them all to have brought a divine revelation.

> Islam recognises Islam as being superior to Christianity and
> Judaism. Muslims believe that Jesus isn't God; that really is
> blasphemy to a Christian.

Muslims don't believe that any revealed religion is revealed TO God,
but rather BY God to humans able to receive the message. They
Believe that Jesus received a revelation as did Muhammad and Moses.
Muhammad's is more recent and therefore in their eyes more advanced,
like Religion v3.0.

> They don't. There are only about one billion Muslims on the
> planet. The rest of the world's population (about 5 billion plus)
> isn't Muslim. Non Muslims outnumber Muslims by rather a large
> margin.

1.6 billion and they outnumber Westerners. I didn't think I had to
draw you a picture.

--

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why
the poor have no food, they call me a communist."

Dom Helder Camara