I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
entirely?

"iarwain" > wrote

>I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it?

Well, I bought some from Penzey's online, so it is available.
However, and I will be immediately and severely reprimanded if
I am wrong, but I thought Accent was MSG?

nancy

Nancy Young wrote on 19 Feb 2006 in rec.food.cooking

>
> "iarwain" > wrote
>
> >I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> > find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> > unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it?
>
> Well, I bought some from Penzey's online, so it is available.
> However, and I will be immediately and severely reprimanded if
> I am wrong, but I thought Accent was MSG?
>
> nancy
>
>
>

Close enough to make no nevermind.

--
-Alan

iarwain wrote:

> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?
>
Sometimes you can find it as Ve Tsin and I believe there are other
names, too. MSG stands for monosodium glutamate. So maybe reading labels
will help. It is a white powder.

It is NOT unhealthy, glutamtes are natural. you can find them in stocks,
for instance. I believe that whole thing about Chinese restaurants and
feeling sick turned out to have been caused by something other than MSG.

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:45:27 -0800, iarwain wrote:

>
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?

Try google.. Monosodium Glutamate..I think it is similar.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...49617?v=glance

iarwain wrote:
>
> Have they stopped making it?

Ha! Not likely. Look for Accent brand.
It's widely available.

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/whatstuff/stuff/8130sci3.html

iarwain wrote:
> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?

If you're feeling flush you can buy Accent. For a lot less cabbage you
can purchase MSG on line from various venders, including Penzeys. Or
check your neighborhood ethnic markets, they typically carry no-name
MSG in one or two pound bulk plastic containers for even less cash and
no shipping... look in the bulk spice section.

Sheldon

iarwain wrote:
> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it?

Not to my knowledge. Last I heard they made more than 1 million tons
of it per year. Look for Ajinomoto or Accent in your grocery store.
It's usually shelved with or near the spices. Sometimes near the
baking supplies. Full name is monosodium glutamate.

> I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?

It's not only not banned but there is no maximum daily intake set for
it by the FDA or the major international health organizations. A small
percentage of people have a sort of allergic reaction (not really an
allergy, I think, but it behaves like that) to it. If you and your
family don't, then don't worry about it. If you were allergic you'd
also have to keep track of a couple dozen very commonly used foods and
additives that contain it. -aem

On 19 Feb 2006 13:45:27 -0800, iarwain wrote:

> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?

Look for the product called "Accent". It's a round, red and white
cardboard type container.
http://www.bgfoods.com/accent/accent_products.asp

This is interesting...
http://www.msgtruth.org/avoid.htm
http://www.moscowfood.coop/archive/msg.html
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"iarwain" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?

I go to my local Asian food store and buy Ajinomoto MSG in a bag - far
cheaper than Accent. I keep a salt shaker filled with a ~70/30% mixture of
salt/MSG.

Info on Ajinomoto MSG
http://www.ajiusafood.com/_zCommon/FramePage.asp?P=MSG

"jake" > wrote in message
. nl...
> iarwain wrote:
>
>> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
>> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
>> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
>> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
>> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
>> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
>> entirely?
>>
> Sometimes you can find it as Ve Tsin and I believe there are other names,
> too. MSG stands for monosodium glutamate. So maybe reading labels will
> help. It is a white powder.
>
> It is NOT unhealthy, glutamtes are natural. you can find them in stocks,
> for instance. I believe that whole thing about Chinese restaurants and
> feeling sick turned out to have been caused by something other than MSG.



yeah, look out for the "B" or "C" rating card in the window..

Harriet & critters

Harriet Neal wrote:

> "jake" > wrote in message
> . nl...
>
>>iarwain wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
>>>find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
>>>unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
>>>some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
>>>my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
>>>Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
>>>entirely?
>>>
>>
>>Sometimes you can find it as Ve Tsin and I believe there are other names,
>>too. MSG stands for monosodium glutamate. So maybe reading labels will
>>help. It is a white powder.
>>
>>It is NOT unhealthy, glutamtes are natural. you can find them in stocks,
>>for instance. I believe that whole thing about Chinese restaurants and
>>feeling sick turned out to have been caused by something other than MSG.
>
>
>
>
> yeah, look out for the "B" or "C" rating card in the window..
>
> Harriet & critters
>
>
I am sorry, I don't know what that means?

Does it help to add that MSG has never had a bad name in The
Netherlands- it seems to be an Anglosaxon scare (to me0?

And it's the sixth flavor:

http://www.glutamate.org/media/glutamate.htm

--Blair

In article .com>,
"iarwain" > wrote:

> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store.

Ac'cent is the brand name I'm familiar with. I haven't looked for it
recently though.
--
http://www.jamlady.eboard.com, updated 2-11-2006, Sausage Roll Ups

"jake" > wrote
>
> Does it help to add that MSG has never had a bad name in The
> Netherlands- it seems to be an Anglosaxon scare (to me0?

Angles and Saxons are both Germanic peoples as are the Nederlanders. The
reaction to MSG is an individual thing and not a cultural or racial thing.

Charlie

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 22:48:52 GMT, "alg" > wrote:
>
>>I go to my local Asian food store and buy Ajinomoto MSG in a bag - far
>>cheaper than Accent. I keep a salt shaker filled with a ~70/30% mixture
>>of
>>salt/MSG.
>
> Is this the same Al G. I think it is?
>
> -sw

Yes, sir! How the heck are you, Mr. Steve? Well, I hope! Still onward
through the fog here in Austin. You?

jake wrote:
> Harriet Neal wrote:
> >>It is NOT unhealthy, glutamtes are natural. you can find them in stocks,
> >>for instance. I believe that whole thing about Chinese restaurants and
> >>feeling sick turned out to have been caused by something other than MSG.
> >
> > yeah, look out for the "B" or "C" rating card in the window..
> >
> > Harriet & critters
> >
> I am sorry, I don't know what that means?

Sarcasm referring to getting sick from dirty kitchens. Many localities
in the U.S. have inspectors who check for cleanliness in restaurants.
They check kitchens and serving areas and storage areas, score them
against predetermined criteria and arrive at a rating. Here in L.A. an
A rating is best, B says they can remain open but need to fix some
things, and I think C causes at least a brief shutdown and cleanup.
Not sure about that.

Interestingly, there have been cultural clashes in this regard, as some
traditional Chinese practices don't meet local standards. Most
notably, hanging roasted ducks in the open at room temperature is
deemed to be unhealthful. Chinese restaurateurs and deli operators
countered that they'd been doing it that way for hundreds of years
without a lot of people keeling over. Politicians get involved.
Some folks on either side get outraged. Other folks find it
entertaining political theater. Compromises are reached. -aem

iarwain wrote:
> I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?
>

Don't know about online but I always see it in the Asian markets I visit.

Charles Gifford wrote:
> "jake" > wrote
>
>>Does it help to add that MSG has never had a bad name in The
>>Netherlands- it seems to be an Anglosaxon scare (to me0?
>
>
> Angles and Saxons are both Germanic peoples as are the Nederlanders.

Yet, the term AnglsoSaxon is not typcally used for the Netherlands.

The
> reaction to MSG is an individual thing and not a cultural or racial thing.
>
The only peopel I have ever heard talk about the supposed dangers of MSG
were North American or Australian. In Holland, it isn't talked about.
That's what I meant by cultural. Doe that clarify things?

aem wrote:

> jake wrote:
>
>>Harriet Neal wrote:
>>
>>>>It is NOT unhealthy, glutamtes are natural. you can find them in stocks,
>>>>for instance. I believe that whole thing about Chinese restaurants and
>>>>feeling sick turned out to have been caused by something other than MSG.
>>>
>>>yeah, look out for the "B" or "C" rating card in the window..
>>>
>>>Harriet & critters
>>>
>>
>>I am sorry, I don't know what that means?
>
>
> Sarcasm referring to getting sick from dirty kitchens. Many localities
> in the U.S. have inspectors who check for cleanliness in restaurants.
> They check kitchens and serving areas and storage areas, score them
> against predetermined criteria and arrive at a rating. Here in L.A. an
> A rating is best, B says they can remain open but need to fix some
> things, and I think C causes at least a brief shutdown and cleanup.
> Not sure about that.
>

Thank you for the explanation. Here, we only have open or closed.
Although there must be companies that get warnings, too, but the
warnings are not made public.

Anything other then A would be baaaad for business, I would think. I am
surprised it actually exists. If that were my business, the A would be a
top priority,

> Interestingly, there have been cultural clashes in this regard, as some
> traditional Chinese practices don't meet local standards. Most
> notably, hanging roasted ducks in the open at room temperature is
> deemed to be unhealthful. Chinese restaurateurs and deli operators
> countered that they'd been doing it that way for hundreds of years
> without a lot of people keeling over. Politicians get involved.
> Some folks on either side get outraged. Other folks find it
> entertaining political theater. Compromises are reached. -aem
>
I see Peking duck at room temp here, too. I wonder what the law says
about that. But no deaths gave been reported. Maybe MSG works as a
preservative

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 00:46:32 GMT, "alg" > wrote:
>
>>"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> Is this the same Al G. I think it is?
>>
>>Yes, sir! How the heck are you, Mr. Steve? Well, I hope! Still onward
>>through the fog here in Austin. You?
>
> I'm back in town again, as you've noticed. Never saw you in RFC
> before (or any group, for that matter ;-) Pretty hostile group,
> eh? You here to watch my back? Some of these people can get
> downright physical, you know. And you know me, always winning
> new friends.
>
> (e.g. There's this "Jay" guy here who I think is the one who's
> been scurrying around in my bushes and peeking in my windows at
> night. Lemme know if you see him out there, neighbor).
>
> -sw

I don't pop here in too often, but when I do I'll have your back, for sure!
I don't even get out to a.f too much these days - my rants tend to be
political these days, if anything. But it's good hearing from you again.
I'll try to pop into a.f a bit more. We should meet up for some brew & eats
sometime soon. -- al

"alg" > wrote

> "Steve Wertz" > wrote

>> (e.g. There's this "Jay" guy here who I think is the one who's
>> been scurrying around in my bushes and peeking in my windows at
>> night. Lemme know if you see him out there, neighbor).

> I don't pop here in too often, but when I do I'll have your back, for
> sure!

Let me set you wise, al, steve is setting you up. You have no
chance here, you will be ground up and spit out if you try to
defy us. Just a warning.

nancy

"iarwain" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I recently wanted to try a recipe containing MSG, but I was unable to
> find it in any local grocery store. I then looked online and was
> unable to find a source either. Have they stopped making it? I know
> some people have reported harmful reactions to it, although I remember
> my mother using it on occasion and we never had any trouble with it.
> Is there an online source for it anywhere or has the FDA banned it
> entirely?
>
Accent is 100% MSG

"jake" > wrote in message
. nl...
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> > "jake" > wrote
> >
> >>Does it help to add that MSG has never had a bad name in The
> >>Netherlands- it seems to be an Anglosaxon scare (to me0?
> >
> >
> > Angles and Saxons are both Germanic peoples as are the Nederlanders.
>
> Yet, the term AnglsoSaxon is not typcally used for the Netherlands.

That's true yet the common useage of "Anglo-Saxon" is also incorrect.
Eitherway my comment is valid.

> The
> > reaction to MSG is an individual thing and not a cultural or racial
thing.
> >
> The only peopel I have ever heard talk about the supposed dangers of MSG
> were North American or Australian.

I don't doubt it for a minute. Americans, Canadians and Australians tend to
be more free to gripe about things than the nice Netherlanders. <smile>

> In Holland, it isn't talked about.
> That's what I meant by cultural. Doe that clarify things?

Yes. I understand what you are saying. But any reaction to MSG is not
cultural. However, as you pointed out, the complaints about MSG are more
common in certain cultures. It is not that the "reaction" to MSG is more
common in certain cultures but, rather, complaining is.

Charlie

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 06:45:03 -0500, "Nancy Young"
> > wrote:
>
>>Let me set you wise, al, steve is setting you up. You have no
>>chance here, you will be ground up and spit out if you try to
>>defy us. Just a warning.
>
> No comment, other than "no comment".
>
> -sw

Geez Louise, Steve! What in the world have you been up to since that last
Cook-In over at Sue's place? You didn't mention anything about needing
knives, lead pipes and blackjacks in here.

"alg" > wrote

> Geez Louise, Steve! What in the world have you been up to since that last
> Cook-In over at Sue's place? You didn't mention anything about needing
> knives, lead pipes and blackjacks in here.

Heh, don't worry, I was just trying to live up to steve's pet
name for me.

nancy

"Nancy Young" > wrote in message
...
>
> "alg" > wrote
>
>> "Steve Wertz" > wrote
>
>>> (e.g. There's this "Jay" guy here who I think is the one who's
>>> been scurrying around in my bushes and peeking in my windows at
>>> night. Lemme know if you see him out there, neighbor).
>
>> I don't pop here in too often, but when I do I'll have your back, for
>> sure!
>
> Let me set you wise, al, steve is setting you up. You have no
> chance here, you will be ground up and spit out if you try to
> defy us. Just a warning.
>
> nancy

Whoa, steady on there! I'm sure whatever horrible sort of difference of
opinion you and your mob or syndicate may have with Steve can be easily
resolved via mutual concessions and admissions of remorse. Steve's just a
big ol' teddy bear deep down inside - much like yourself, I'm sure!

There now, don't we all feel a lot better? Give us a big smiley ... and
have a happy day!

al




(*whew*)

Steve Wertz wrote:

> ObFood: Thai sweet chili garlic wings, regular 'ol salad, and
> choux cream puffs + rum sauce for dessert tonight. My choux
> didn't rise very well, so filling them was a little tricky. But
> its the taste that counts.

Cook choux hot at first, about 400 F, they should puff
quickly. Then lower to 350 F until finished. If you
want them really dry poke them in the side with a
knife when they're almost done, then cook a few
minutes longer.

I like them dry for savory profiteroles, not so much
for cream puffs.

I'd like to see your wings recipe if you
get the chance.

--
Reg

Steve Wertz wrote:

> I looked at two recipes for choux, both were pretty much the same.
> I used this:
>
> http://frenchfood.about.com/od/bread...s/r/eclair.htm
>
> After step 2, you end up with a ball of dough in the pan, nothing
> that can be cooked for 4 minutes like it says in step 3. I added
> 2 tablespoons of water at this point and that still didn't work,
> so I skipped #3.
>
> I was able to get the "string" mentioned in #5.
>

The reason for step 3 is to dry out the dough somewhat. The
dryer it is, the more egg it will take. The more egg, the
more puff.

The amount of drying you need will vary. The four minute
thing is not good advice. Sometimes it needs a minute
or two, sometimes it doesn't need any.

> Deep fry wings, then toss with Mae Ploy Sweet Chili Sauce and a
> tablespoon of Huy Fong Chili Garlic Sauce for added heat. Simple
> and very tasty. It's gotta be Mae Ploy brand chili sauce - accept
> no substitutes. Nothing gormay about it, sorry ;-)
>
> I don't usually like sweet meat, but this is the exception.

Looks like a good dish for this weekend. Thanks.

--
Reg

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 02:23:57 GMT, "alg" > wrote:
>
>>Geez Louise, Steve! What in the world have you been up to since that last
>>Cook-In over at Sue's place? You didn't mention anything about needing
>>knives, lead pipes and blackjacks in here.
>
> The, uh.. "dynamics" of RFC are quite complicated. So complicated
> that I'm not even going to begin to explain them unless I'm drunk.
> Give me a few more hours...
>
> Most of the light-weights drop out after 24 hours. You won't need
> any weapons, just a will to cook, a hard head, and a lot of free
> time. Your chances of survival increase 1% with every post, so
> hang in there.
>
> Can I interest you in some grilled choate with cojita cheese?
> (This is a test...)
>
> ObFood: Thai sweet chili garlic wings, regular 'ol salad, and
> choux cream puffs + rum sauce for dessert tonight. My choux
> didn't rise very well, so filling them was a little tricky. But
> its the taste that counts.
>
> -sw

Oh, you know me - I'm a drinker, not a fighter. And I don't know nothing
about no grilled choate with cojita cheese. (I fail!)

The wings and choux puffs sound great! Awfully ambitious for a Monday
night, aren't we? I just did a simple cheese bread in the ol' Zojirushi to
go with left-overs ... chicken soup and chicken a la king.

You're right, it's the taste that counts.

In article >,
says...
>
> Does it help to add that MSG has never had a bad name in The
> Netherlands- it seems to be an Anglosaxon scare (to me0?
>

When I was living in Germany in the late 70ies I knew a couple of people who
used to get migraine type headaches from ingesting MSG.

Apparently there's a certain percentage of people who are allergic to it in
this way. Funnily enough, I haven't met anyone else with that problem since,
even though I now live in a predominantly Anglosaxon country :-)

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

In article . com>,
says...
>
> Interestingly, there have been cultural clashes in this regard, as some
> traditional Chinese practices don't meet local standards. Most
> notably, hanging roasted ducks in the open at room temperature is
> deemed to be unhealthful. Chinese restaurateurs and deli operators
> countered that they'd been doing it that way for hundreds of years
> without a lot of people keeling over. Politicians get involved.
> Some folks on either side get outraged. Other folks find it
> entertaining political theater. Compromises are reached. -aem
>
<chuckle>

Once politicians (and often 'senior civil servants') get involved, things often
turn into custard.

Here in New Zealand, for instance, the authorities at some point got hold of
the idea that pasteurizing milk is A Good Thing. Henceforce, they made it
illegal for any cheese to be manufactured from un-pasturized milk (with the
argument that this was to prevent listeria - which is BS because listeria gets
into cheese at the *other* end of the process, but never mind). They have put
cheese factories out of business because their receipes no longer worked; Dutch
and Swiss boutique cheesemakers are not allowed to use traditional recipes ...
this has been going on since before the 80ies when I moved here, and they are
absolutely immovable about it. Compromises will not be reached. <sigh>

If there's one thing I miss here, it's good European cheese.

-P.

--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:49:25 GMT, Reg > wrote:
>
>
>>The amount of drying you need will vary. The four minute
>>thing is not good advice. Sometimes it needs a minute
>>or two, sometimes it doesn't need any.
>
> As soon as I put in the flour, it sucked up all the moisture.

But it actually didn't. It looked like it, but what hadn't happened yet
is hydration of the flour. That takes a little time. The flour needs to
take up as much water as it can actually absorb. That's less than it
looks like in this step, and the batter needs to be cooked to get rid of
the raw flour taste and texture.

It means, in function, that you have too much water in the pot. So, the
direction to cook it a bit. That's necessary to get rid of some of the
moisture and promote hydration. The dough ball that forms needs to be
smeared and stirred and generally messed with in the further cooking to
accomplish several chemical and physical things. I understand that it's
like trying to stir modeling clay, but have faith. Stir doggedly and
form that crust in the bottom of the pan, like Julia says, URL below.

> And
> I didn't let the water boil away in step 1 as the butter had
> already been melted in the micro.

No matter. The amount that would have been lost in the boiling is trivial.

> Would baking soda help it rise more?

Not likely. It's not a matrix like a biscuit or quick bread, it's
hollow, so nothing to support the CO2 the soda gives off.

My suggestion is to forget "fixing" the recipe and follow it exactly one
time. Your addition of *more* water was exactly 180° out of synch with
what needed to be done. It's really fairly simple, and once you do it
correctly the first time, the whole thing will snap into place for you.
It'll become one of those "of course" things.

Here's a fine tutorial from Julia, complete with recipes:
<http://tinyurl.com/lqye2>

I do it on the stove through the stirring/drying stage, and then dump it
into my KitchenAid fitted with the paddle. Low speed because you don't
want to incorporate air into the batter. Let it run for a minute or two
to cool the batter down a bit, so the eggs don't cook when you dump them
in, one by one. Add one egg at a time and let the machine run for 30
seconds or more - as much as a minute per egg - to make sure it's evenly
dispersed. Pipe and bake per directions.

Filling is done by either of two methods - a filling tube poked in one
end and a pastry cream piped in ( do it this way for creme patissiere);
or, by cutting them in half horizontally and spooning the filling in (I
do ice cream this way).

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> Steve Wertz wrote:
> > On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 05:49:25 GMT, Reg > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>The amount of drying you need will vary. The four minute
> >>thing is not good advice. Sometimes it needs a minute
> >>or two, sometimes it doesn't need any.
> >
> > As soon as I put in the flour, it sucked up all the moisture.
>
> But it actually didn't. It looked like it, but what hadn't happened yet
> is hydration of the flour. That takes a little time. The flour needs to
> take up as much water as it can actually absorb. That's less than it
> looks like in this step, and the batter needs to be cooked to get rid of
> the raw flour taste and texture.

Couldn't agree more! It really does need those four or five minutes even
when you are sure it doesn't. I've been making a lot of pate choux lately
for gnocchi and gougere and most recently profiteroles. I follow the
formula and it always works now. For entertaining it always seems to
impress and is so delicious!
>
> It means, in function, that you have too much water in the pot. So, the
> direction to cook it a bit. That's necessary to get rid of some of the
> moisture and promote hydration. The dough ball that forms needs to be
> smeared and stirred and generally messed with in the further cooking to
> accomplish several chemical and physical things. I understand that it's
> like trying to stir modeling clay, but have faith. Stir doggedly and
> form that crust in the bottom of the pan, like Julia says, URL below.

<snip of spot on advice for brevity>

> Here's a fine tutorial from Julia, complete with recipes:
> <http://tinyurl.com/lqye2>

Thanks for the URL.
>
> I do it on the stove through the stirring/drying stage, and then dump it
> into my KitchenAid fitted with the paddle. Low speed because you don't
> want to incorporate air into the batter. Let it run for a minute or two
> to cool the batter down a bit, so the eggs don't cook when you dump them
> in, one by one. Add one egg at a time and let the machine run for 30
> seconds or more - as much as a minute per egg - to make sure it's evenly
> dispersed. Pipe and bake per directions.

<another snip for brevity>
> Pastorio

The another nice thing about pate choux is how well it freezes. I finally
broke down and bought an 18 " pastry bag to facilitate making large batches
for freezing. I've got a large bag of gnocchi in the freezer and just use a
handful for dinner here and there. I had some friends stop by recently for
impromptu drinks and I popped a few gougeres from the freezer into the oven.
They were oohing and ahhing about how great these were and wanted to know
where I purchased them. I got great satisfaction out of knowing I hadn't
;-).

Kate

"Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 06:26:44 GMT, "alg" > wrote:
>
>>Oh, you know me - I'm a drinker, not a fighter. And I don't know nothing
>>about no grilled choate with cojita cheese. (I fail!)
>
> It was a spelling test. You passed :-)

Oh, for being a lousy speeler, that's amazing! Was that supposed to be
choyate and cojeta? I gotta say, those are fairly obscure in the typical
Anglo setting.

>> Wings and choux puffs sound great! Awfully ambitious for a Monday
>>night, aren't we? I just did a simple cheese bread in the ol' Zojirushi
>>to
>>go with left-overs ... chicken soup and chicken a la king.
>
> I had a Zojirushi, but it was a rice cooker. I take it you did
> cheese bread in something other than a rice cooker.

Yeah, it's a bread machine my mom passed down to me. It's a good'un,
though! I love kitchen gadgets and this certainly qualifies. You can find
'em pretty cheap on eBay, I noticed. Hmm, bread in a rice cooker. In
Hawaii, they used to have something called "manapua", which is a steamed
white flour roll stuffed with char sui pork - yum! Could maybe make an
English pudding in a rice cooker. Nah, sounds too scary...

>>You're right, it's the taste that counts.
>
> And I know you have good taste, at least in beer and that BBQ you
> brought last time.

I cheated - next time I'd actually *make* something. But in a pinch, Rudy's
doesn't suck. I got a cheap-o electric smoker (coz I'm tired of stoking
wood and tending fire for 8-12 hours), but I haven't worked out acceptable
technique yet - close, but no red ring. Perhaps there's just no substitute
for a good wood-fired smoker.

jake wrote:
> I see Peking duck at room temp here, too. I wonder what the law says
> about that. But no deaths gave been reported. Maybe MSG works as a
> preservative

Roasting at 450F and keeping in a clean environment works as a
preservative.

Thank your local health department that the environments stay
relatively clean (as compared to say a duck stall next to a livery
stable in Shanghai in 1554...)

--Blair

> When I was living in Germany in the late 70ies I knew a couple of people who
> used to get migraine type headaches from ingesting MSG.
>
> Apparently there's a certain percentage of people who are allergic to it in
> this way. Funnily enough, I haven't met anyone else with that problem since,
> even though I now live in a predominantly Anglosaxon country :-)
>
> -P.
> I wish I remembered where I rad about the MSG scare not being MSG
realted but the health problems turning out t o have a different cause.
Which was dealt with and that's why the reaction isn't heard about anymore.

Anyway, my point was not that the reaciton only happens in certain
cultures. My point was that the reputation of MSG is diiferent in
different cultures.

"jake" > wrote
>
> I wish I remembered where I rad about the MSG scare not being MSG
> realted but the health problems turning out t o have a different cause.
> Which was dealt with and that's why the reaction isn't heard about
anymore.

Not heard about anymore? It is a regular feature in this newsgroup. If you
haven't heard about it for a while allow me: I have a mild reaction to MSG
if it is used in large amounts as it is now and then by bad cooks.

> Anyway, my point was not that the reaciton only happens in certain
> cultures. My point was that the reputation of MSG is diiferent in
> different cultures.

And your point is still wrong. It is not cultural.....it is biological. Your
last sentence may well be correct.

Charlie

Steve Wertz wrote:
> On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:52:34 -0500, "Bob (this one)"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>My suggestion is to forget "fixing" the recipe and follow it exactly one
>>time. Your addition of *more* water was exactly 180° out of synch with
>>what needed to be done.
>
>
> Fromt he recipe, it didn't sound like it was supposed to be that
> dense ("stirring until smooth"). There was no way this would have
> gotten smooth.

Think of it as a kind of culinary poetic license...

It should be dense and it will get smooth. If you have arms like the
Governator.

> But in it's defense, it wasn't floury tasting at
> all. (The filling was a different story - recipe from same site.
> Once it cooled it tasted better though).

You need a good creme patissiere for it. And it needs to be fully cooked
or it tastes like you just licked a blackboard. Fine granularity and an
uncooked flour finish.

> Thanks. I'll try cooking it down for the required 4 minutes next
> time. And thanks for the second opinion and confirmation, Kate.
> The next batch will be frosted, as well. And some filled with ice
> cream - French vanilla (cut horizontally lengthwise and filled
> sandwich style).

And a trickle of chocolate sauce over.

Ahhhhhhhh...

Pastorio