"SHARING" (for those who 'care' for this word)

P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.

The last recipe I made from this book
"Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
was the Broa, p. 78, turned out fairly well, delicious. C
Click on the 'cut loaf' at
http://tinyurl.com/zkmaq

but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg

I will have to rely on my brain from now on not to follow a recipe when I
have a certain feeling about it.

First of all, I dislike dark brown sugar and it called for 1/2 cup. It
called for 1 cup full packed raisins; I used maybe a third to half cup.
Just too much otherwise, IMO.
It called for 2 eggs. and to rise for 1 to 1-1/2 hours. It did not raise
enough until about 6-7 hours. I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
night and put it in the frig. This a.m. I took it out of the frig for
about 3 hours, but was still a little cool, but put it in a 400ºF oven for
45 minutes!, then reduced the oven to 350ºF for another 30 minutes, per
recipe instructions.

It says to BAKE UNTIL DARK AND SHINGY" -- ha ha! but the picture on p. 123
shows a normal colored crust.

I only made this recipe because DH said the only bread he liked with raisins
was cinnamon raisin bread. This, of course, went into the waste basket.
Not often anymore do I have a bread failure. A similar recipe made in the
bread-maker always came out fabulous. What bothers me most is that I
wasted my organic milk that I had looked everywhere 'for.'
Dee Dee
P.S. When a bread dough is set to raise for over 3 hours, wouldn't one be
concerned about egg safety for (in my case) 6-7 hours in an area 80-82º?
Thanks.

Dee Randall wrote:
> "SHARING" (for those who 'care' for this word)
>
> P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>
> The last recipe I made from this book
> "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
> was the Broa, p. 78, turned out fairly well, delicious. C
> Click on the 'cut loaf' at
> http://tinyurl.com/zkmaq
>
> but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
> http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>
> I will have to rely on my brain from now on not to follow a recipe when I
> have a certain feeling about it.
>
> First of all, I dislike dark brown sugar and it called for 1/2 cup. It
> called for 1 cup full packed raisins; I used maybe a third to half cup.
> Just too much otherwise, IMO.
> It called for 2 eggs. and to rise for 1 to 1-1/2 hours. It did not raise
> enough until about 6-7 hours. I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
> called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
> night and put it in the frig. This a.m. I took it out of the frig for
> about 3 hours, but was still a little cool, but put it in a 400ºF oven for
> 45 minutes!, then reduced the oven to 350ºF for another 30 minutes, per
> recipe instructions.
>
> It says to BAKE UNTIL DARK AND SHINGY" -- ha ha! but the picture on p. 123
> shows a normal colored crust.
>
> I only made this recipe because DH said the only bread he liked with raisins
> was cinnamon raisin bread. This, of course, went into the waste basket.
> Not often anymore do I have a bread failure. A similar recipe made in the
> bread-maker always came out fabulous. What bothers me most is that I
> wasted my organic milk that I had looked everywhere 'for.'
> Dee Dee
> P.S. When a bread dough is set to raise for over 3 hours, wouldn't one be
> concerned about egg safety for (in my case) 6-7 hours in an area 80-82º?
> Thanks.
>
>


Just an observation.. it looks as if your yeast may have been tad on the
elderly side.

Abby

--
The ChildFree Abby Archives - http://www.dismal-light.net/childfreeabby/

"ChildFree Abby" > wrote in message
...
> Dee Randall wrote:
>> "SHARING" (for those who 'care' for this word)
>>
>> P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>>
>> The last recipe I made from this book
>> "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>> was the Broa, p. 78, turned out fairly well, delicious. C
>> Click on the 'cut loaf' at
>> http://tinyurl.com/zkmaq
>>
>> but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
>> http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>>
>> I will have to rely on my brain from now on not to follow a recipe when I
>> have a certain feeling about it.
>>
>> First of all, I dislike dark brown sugar and it called for 1/2 cup. It
>> called for 1 cup full packed raisins; I used maybe a third to half cup.
>> Just too much otherwise, IMO.
>> It called for 2 eggs. and to rise for 1 to 1-1/2 hours. It did not raise
>> enough until about 6-7 hours. I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
>> called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
>> night and put it in the frig. This a.m. I took it out of the frig for
>> about 3 hours, but was still a little cool, but put it in a 400ºF oven
>> for 45 minutes!, then reduced the oven to 350ºF for another 30 minutes,
>> per recipe instructions.
>>
>> It says to BAKE UNTIL DARK AND SHINGY" -- ha ha! but the picture on p.
>> 123 shows a normal colored crust.
>>
>> I only made this recipe because DH said the only bread he liked with
>> raisins was cinnamon raisin bread. This, of course, went into the waste
>> basket. Not often anymore do I have a bread failure. A similar recipe
>> made in the bread-maker always came out fabulous. What bothers me most
>> is that I wasted my organic milk that I had looked everywhere 'for.'
>> Dee Dee
>> P.S. When a bread dough is set to raise for over 3 hours, wouldn't one be
>> concerned about egg safety for (in my case) 6-7 hours in an area 80-82º?
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
> Just an observation.. it looks as if your yeast may have been tad on the
> elderly side.
>
> Abby

Thanks for your suggestion, but my yeast is good-to-go. It's always
up-to-date.
Dee Dee

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...

>>P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>>

>>but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
>>http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>>

>
>> Dee, I think it might be that book.

I've decided to put back that book. I did get out Clayton's book and
started looking for a white bread recipe for my new long loaf pans; one 12"
long & the other one 13-3/4" long, more-or-less regular loaf-sized width.

In this cinnamon raisin bread loaf, it did say to shape the dough to the
pan, but, I didn't have to do that as my pan was just the right length,
which made the dough in the pan a lesser height to begin with at the
proofing stage. That could have made some difference.


>I had trouble with their broa
> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
> bread very much.
> What was the ingredients list?

1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
2 eggs
3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not currants)

You did put in all the brown sugar,> right?
Yes.

You just shorted it on raisins? That the only thing you
> changed?

I changed 2 T of milk, and substituted 2 T sour cream.
And the change of raisins.

Maybe the raisins shorted it on some sugar and it had less
> oomph because of it.
>
> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.

I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>
> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
> gravlax.

I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
recipe. If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint term
of mine about purchased bread.

For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa in
the freezer).

Thanks for your ideas,
very helpful,
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:
> "SHARING" (for those who 'care' for this word)
>
> P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>
> The last recipe I made from this book
> "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
> was the Broa, p. 78, turned out fairly well, delicious. C
> Click on the 'cut loaf' at
> http://tinyurl.com/zkmaq
>
> but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
> http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>
> I will have to rely on my brain from now on not to follow a recipe when I
> have a certain feeling about it.
>
> First of all, I dislike dark brown sugar and it called for 1/2 cup. It
> called for 1 cup full packed raisins; I used maybe a third to half cup.
> Just too much otherwise, IMO.
> It called for 2 eggs. and to rise for 1 to 1-1/2 hours. It did not raise
> enough until about 6-7 hours. I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
> called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
> night and put it in the frig. This a.m. I took it out of the frig for
> about 3 hours, but was still a little cool, but put it in a 400ºF oven for
> 45 minutes!, then reduced the oven to 350ºF for another 30 minutes, per
> recipe instructions.
>
> It says to BAKE UNTIL DARK AND SHINGY" -- ha ha! but the picture on p. 123
> shows a normal colored crust.
>
> I only made this recipe because DH said the only bread he liked with raisins
> was cinnamon raisin bread. This, of course, went into the waste basket.
> Not often anymore do I have a bread failure. A similar recipe made in the
> bread-maker always came out fabulous. What bothers me most is that I
> wasted my organic milk that I had looked everywhere 'for.'
> Dee Dee
> P.S. When a bread dough is set to raise for over 3 hours, wouldn't one be
> concerned about egg safety for (in my case) 6-7 hours in an area 80-82º?

When I worked in a bakery I remember our raisin bread used to take at
least a couple hours to rise in the proofer. Sweet breads usually take
longer to rise than regular breads but raisin bread tends to be
especially difficult. The sugar in the dough along with the sugar from
the raisins actually inhibit the yeast from growing. A little sugar is
good; a lot is not. Maybe you could try letting the dough rise
overnight in the refrigerator.

"djs0302" > wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Randall wrote:
> "SHARING" (for those who 'care' for this word)
>
> P. 123 "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
>
> The last recipe I made from this book
> "Bread" by Treuille & Ferrigno.
> was the Broa, p. 78, turned out fairly well, delicious. C
> Click on the 'cut loaf' at
> http://tinyurl.com/zkmaq
>
> but the cinnamon raisin bread p. page 123 is laughable. Look!
> http://tinypic.com/qy9w13.jpg
>
> I will have to rely on my brain from now on not to follow a recipe when I
> have a certain feeling about it.
>
> First of all, I dislike dark brown sugar and it called for 1/2 cup. It
> called for 1 cup full packed raisins; I used maybe a third to half cup.
> Just too much otherwise, IMO.
> It called for 2 eggs. and to rise for 1 to 1-1/2 hours. It did not raise
> enough until about 6-7 hours. I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
> called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
> night and put it in the frig. This a.m. I took it out of the frig for
> about 3 hours, but was still a little cool, but put it in a 400ºF oven for
> 45 minutes!, then reduced the oven to 350ºF for another 30 minutes, per
> recipe instructions.
>
> It says to BAKE UNTIL DARK AND SHINGY" -- ha ha! but the picture on p. 123
> shows a normal colored crust.
>
> I only made this recipe because DH said the only bread he liked with
> raisins
> was cinnamon raisin bread. This, of course, went into the waste basket.
> Not often anymore do I have a bread failure. A similar recipe made in the
> bread-maker always came out fabulous. What bothers me most is that I
> wasted my organic milk that I had looked everywhere 'for.'
> Dee Dee
> P.S. When a bread dough is set to raise for over 3 hours, wouldn't one be
> concerned about egg safety for (in my case) 6-7 hours in an area 80-82º?

When I worked in a bakery I remember our raisin bread used to take at
least a couple hours to rise in the proofer. Sweet breads usually take
longer to rise than regular breads but raisin bread tends to be
especially difficult. The sugar in the dough along with the sugar from
the raisins actually inhibit the yeast from growing. A little sugar is
good; a lot is not. Maybe you could try letting the dough rise
overnight in the refrigerator.

See above wherein I stated:
I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
> called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
> night and put it in the frig.

It sure got a lot of rising and proofing. 6-7 hours rising, 3 hours
proofing, then overnight!
I never had any trouble with raisin bread in a bread-maker, but then, the
recipe I used only called for 3 TB of sugar or honey. When I made that
recipe I used 3T of just about any kind of sweetener I wanted: carob
molasses, date molasses, briar rabbit, any organic sugar or honey on hand.
Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.
Dee Dee

On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:58:57 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .

>>I had trouble with their broa
>> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
>> bread very much.
>> What was the ingredients list?
>
>1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
>3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
>3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
>1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
>(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
>2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
>2 eggs
>3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
>1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not currants)

How much yeast?
>

>> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.
>
>I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
>ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>>
>> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
>> gravlax.
>
>I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
>posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
>recipe.

It was those pictures that gave me the idea to use the Hamelman
recipe.

>If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
>which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint term
>of mine about purchased bread.

Wegman's, like other groceries, usually starts from a mix, rather than
a fresh or frozen dough, though with bialys, I am not sure. The take a
bit of effort to shape and time is money in those places. Perhaps they
do get them as frozen dough.

I avoid store-bought bread whenever possible.
>
>For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
>number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
>Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa in
>the freezer).

I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.

And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
doughs.

>Thanks for your ideas,
>very helpful,
>Dee Dee
>
Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
snip
> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>
> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
> doughs.
>
>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>very helpful,
>>Dee Dee
>>
> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>
> Boron

I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well. I
have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast and
bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant instant
yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for Dee's raisin
bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough after mixing.
If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time to recover in
that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when adding the dry
yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich dough. The yeast
just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you always use fresh
yeast don't you?
Janet

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 7 Mar 2006 20:58:57 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>>>I had trouble with their broa
>>> recipe, you had trouble with this one. It isn't as if we don't bake
>>> bread very much.
>>> What was the ingredients list?
>>
>>1/2 cup dark brown sugar (I used organic)
>>3/4 cup milk, plus 2 tbsp milk (I used 2 T sour cream instead of milk)
>>3-3/4 cup bread flour - I used 16.9 oz. (4.5 oz a cup)
>>1-1/2 tsp salt (I used french sea salt which was just a teensy bit coarser
>>(but not kosher coarser, but tried to adjust it in my own way)
>>2 tsp ground cinnamon (I used Vietnam cinnamon)
>>2 eggs
>>3 T butter, plus extra for greasing pan
>>1 PACKED cup raisins (I used small raisins maybe a third cup - not
>>currants)
>

>>
>
>>> And yes, I'd worry about an egg dough out that long.
>>
>>I'm glad you answered that, as I've thought of this before. But DH took
>>ONE bite before we tossed it. He's still around! tee hee.
>>>
>>> We made the Hamelman bialys Sunday and had them with home cured
>>> gravlax.
>>
>>I'm glad your bialys were good. I made the Hammelman bialys, too, (and
>>posted pictures on alt.bread.recipes, if you might recall) and I liked the
>>recipe.
>
> It was those pictures that gave me the idea to use the Hamelman
> recipe.
>
>>If I remember correctly, I had one bialys since then at Wegmans
>>which was not too bad, but the bread tasted 'dead,' a common complaint
>>term
>>of mine about purchased bread.
>
> Wegman's, like other groceries, usually starts from a mix, rather than
> a fresh or frozen dough, though with bialys, I am not sure. The take a
> bit of effort to shape and time is money in those places. Perhaps they
> do get them as frozen dough.
>
> I avoid store-bought bread whenever possible.
>>
>>For a while, as I'm off of Crust & Crumb after doing the poolish for a
>>number of breads - a workout! I think I'm going to work a while from
>>Hammelman and maybe try Clayton's broa (but I still have some sliced broa
>>in
>>the freezer).
>
> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>
> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
> doughs.
>
>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>very helpful,
>>Dee Dee
>>
> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>
> Boron


> How much yeast?

Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
Dee Dee

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
> ...
> snip
>> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
>> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
>> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>>
>> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
>> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
>> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
>> doughs.
>>
>>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>>very helpful,
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>>
>> Boron
>
> I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well.
> I have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast
> and bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant
> instant yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for
> Dee's raisin bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough
> after mixing. If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time
> to recover in that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when
> adding the dry yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich
> dough. The yeast just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you
> always use fresh yeast don't you?
> Janet
An aside -- in this particular recipe, it called for the dark brown sugar to
be mixed with 1/2 cup of the milk and to be stirred to dissolve completely.
Then sprinkle the yeast into the milk/sugar mixture, let stand for 5
minutes; stir to dissolve completely. It did not mention temperature of the
milk. When the bread was mixed, I 'infrared' the temperature from the
outside; it was 65 (about the temp) of the room at that time. I put it to
raise in the utility room which is 80-82º.
Booo to this receipe - there are others.
Thanks for your comments. I appreciatethem.
Dee Dee

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 06:42:33 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip
>> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
>> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
>> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>>
>> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
>> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
>> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
>> doughs.
>>
>>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>>very helpful,
>>>Dee Dee
>>>
>> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>>
>> Boron
>
>I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well. I
>have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast and
>bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant instant
>yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for Dee's raisin
>bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the dough after mixing.
>If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a long time to recover in
>that high sugar environment. I have had poor success when adding the dry
>yeast to the dry ingredients when making a really rich dough. The yeast
>just doesn't seem to dissolve as it should. Boron, you always use fresh
>yeast don't you?
>Janet
>


I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
anything and everything.

If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
starters.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
snip
> I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
> mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
> for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
> anything and everything.
>
> If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
> starters.
>
> Boron

I would love to try fresh sometime but I have even seen the little packages
of it in probably 20 years.
Janet

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:


>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>Dee Dee
>


I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.

Boron

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:13:15 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> wrote:

>
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
.. .
>snip
>> I use fresh when The Hub can cop me a 1lb brick of it from a baking
>> mix supply place where he works once in awhile. It is my preference
>> for anything but lean doughs, but I have been known to experiment with
>> anything and everything.
>>
>> If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
>> starters.
>>
>> Boron
>
>I would love to try fresh sometime but I have even seen the little packages
>of it in probably 20 years.
>Janet
>


Try a bakery. Sometimes they will give you or sell you some. Of
course, good old-fashioned bakeries are few and far between these
days, too. sigh

Boron

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>>Dee Dee
>>
>
>
> I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.
>
> Boron

We've often been told by Roy that the fix for a reticent enriched dough is
more yeast. Enriched dough just needs more consideration with temperature
and yeast than a lean dough. I don't have the book Dee is using so I
couldn't look up the recipe.
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> snip
>>>> I read the OP's message about sweet breads taking longer to rise, and
>>>> I have certainly some longer rises (with a sourdough starter, not
>>>> yeast) with mine but nothing as long as you mention.
>>>>
>>>> And I have made stollens that rise so fast you can watch them. Those
>>>> are sweet, rich doughs. The right amount of yeast is needed, too. Did
>>>> you use regular or rapid rise or fresh? I like to use fresh with sweet
>>>> doughs.
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for your ideas,
>>>>>very helpful,
>>>>>Dee Dee
>>>>>
>>>> Always a pleasure. Let's see what Janet says.
>>>>
>>>> Boron
>>>
>>> I was going to suggest more yeast. I have made stollens that rise well.
>>> I have more success with the rise for stollen if I use active dry yeast
>>> and bloom it than if I use instant yeast. There is an osmotolerant
>>> instant yeast for highly enriched dough and maybe that would work for
>>> Dee's raisin bread. The other thing might be the temperature of the
>>> dough after mixing. If it was too cold -- say 60F -- it might take a
>>> long time to recover in that high sugar environment. I have had poor
>>> success when adding the dry yeast to the dry ingredients when making a
>>> really rich dough. The yeast just doesn't seem to dissolve as it
>>> should. Boron, you always use fresh yeast don't you?
>>> Janet
>> An aside -- in this particular recipe, it called for the dark brown sugar
>> to be mixed with 1/2 cup of the milk and to be stirred to dissolve
>> completely. Then sprinkle the yeast into the milk/sugar mixture, let
>> stand for 5 minutes; stir to dissolve completely. It did not mention
>> temperature of the milk. When the bread was mixed, I 'infrared' the
>> temperature from the outside; it was 65 (about the temp) of the room at
>> that time. I put it to raise in the utility room which is 80-82º.
>> Booo to this receipe - there are others.
>> Thanks for your comments. I appreciatethem.
>> Dee Dee
> The dough should have finished at about 78F. I know you have had this
> problem before because your kitchen is cold. I suspect that may have been
> your problem. You may have to look up the rule of 240? over at
> alt.bread.recipes. Or heat the milk quite warm, scalding probably
> wouldn't hurt here, dissolve the sugar in the hot milk, allow the
> milk/sugar mixture temperature to drop to around 95 or so and then
> dissolve the yeast in the mixture and allow it to bloom. That way the
> vessel you use to dissolve everything will have been warmed as well and
> you should be able to get a nicely warmed liquid to use for mixing the
> flour. Hope this helps.
> Janet
Thank you, Janet. Yes, I know (only too well) about the 78F. That was the
reason I was wondering what the temperature was -- being 65º. And I know
the 240 rule, too. Guess I just was going against the Gods on this one!
Probably because I hate being so darned scientific, I got caught! I think I
had a thing against this recipe at the very start because of my dislike for
brown sugar; you know, "so what if it doesn't work, I won't "have" to eat
that brown sugar!"

I took the chill off the milk in the microwave before the sugar was
dissolved in it, but did not test the temperature; I could've gone a higher.
I did warm the vessel, I learned that from you speaking of my
low-temperatured kitchen.
You are right about everything here. BUT I was hoping that my 80-82º
temperature for the raise would compensate for all my foilables, but alas,
it did not.
Thanks, Janet,
Dee Dee

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:04:55 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, forgot to say: - 2 teaspoons.
>>Thanks for your other comments, enjoyed them.
>>Dee Dee
>>
>
>
> I think that is too little yeast, myself. That is less than a packet.
>
> Boron

Interesting - at the time I was measuring out, I was thinking "hmm -- wonder
if 1-1/2 would be enough, then I said, no -- I'll give it 2."
(2-1/4 tsp = 1 packet).
An interesting comment DH made when he took the one bite was "Tastes very
yeasty."

Anyway, I don't think my yeast is bad, but since I have two un-opened SAF's
on hand (that I had to get from online mail-order) , I think I'll open the
SAF on my next bread.

Dee Dee

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
> ...
SNIP
>> The dough should have finished at about 78F. snip
Hope this helps.
>> Janet
> Thank you, Janet. Yes, I know (only too well) about the 78F. snip
> You are right about everything here. BUT I was hoping that my 80-82º
> temperature for the raise would compensate for all my foilables, but alas,
> it did not.
> Thanks, Janet,
> Dee Dee
>
Hey! There's no harm in trying to outwit the kitchen gremlins. ;o}
Janet

"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:13:15 -0700, "Janet Bostwick"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
. ..
>>snip

>>> If I have no fresh yeast in the house, I use SAF Red or the sourdough
>>> starters.
>>>
>>> Boron
>>
>>I would love to try fresh sometime but I have even seen the little
>>packages
>>of it in probably 20 years.
>>Janet
>>
>
>
> Try a bakery. Sometimes they will give you or sell you some. Of
> course, good old-fashioned bakeries are few and far between these
> days, too. sigh
>
> Boron
That's the problem. The only fresh bakery(s) around here is the sourdough
kind. Everything else comes from a commercial outfit that supplies the
grocery stores so they can bake the stuff off in those little roll around
ovens.
Janet

"Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Janet Bostwick" > wrote in message
>> ...
> SNIP
>>> The dough should have finished at about 78F. snip
> Hope this helps.
>>> Janet
>> Thank you, Janet. Yes, I know (only too well) about the 78F. snip
>> You are right about everything here. BUT I was hoping that my 80-82º
>> temperature for the raise would compensate for all my foilables, but
>> alas, it did not.
>> Thanks, Janet,
>> Dee Dee
>>
> Hey! There's no harm in trying to outwit the kitchen gremlins. ;o}
> Janet
LOL.
That's a good term - I'll have to remember that.
Dee Dee

On 8 Mar 2006 14:12:57 -0800, "djs0302" > wrote:

>
>Janet Bostwick wrote:
>> That's the problem. The only fresh bakery(s) around here is the sourdough
>> kind. Everything else comes from a commercial outfit that supplies the
>> grocery stores so they can bake the stuff off in those little roll around
>> ovens.
>
>I've always hated the term "bake off". I never heard it until I worked
>in a bakery. I always want to say, "Bake off of what?" It makes no
>sense. I mean what's the difference between saying "Bake these pies"
>and "Bake off these pies" ? The term "break out" is almost as bad.


Maybe it all comes from Pillsbury.

Boron

Dee Randall wrote:
>
> See above wherein I stated:
> I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
> > called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
> > night and put it in the frig.
>
> It sure got a lot of rising and proofing. 6-7 hours rising, 3 hours
> proofing, then overnight!
> I never had any trouble with raisin bread in a bread-maker, but then, the
> recipe I used only called for 3 TB of sugar or honey. When I made that
> recipe I used 3T of just about any kind of sweetener I wanted: carob
> molasses, date molasses, briar rabbit, any organic sugar or honey on hand.
> Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.
> Dee Dee

Have you ever tried using your microwave oven as a proof box? You
place a cup of water in the microwave and bring it to a boil. Then you
move the cup of water off to the side and place the bread dough inside
the oven and shut the door. The dough itself does not get microwaved.
I've also done the same thing using a large pot on the stove. I place
a rack inside the pot. Then I add a tiny bit of water and bring the
water to a boil. After the water has boiled a few seconds I remove the
pot from the stove and place the loaf of bread inside the pot on top of
the rack. The rack is to keep the bread out of the water. I then
cover the pot with a lid. I remember proofing a loaf of raisin bread
this way and it seemed to work out well. I don't remember the recipe
because it was quite a while back and I haven't made it since. I don't
like raisin bread myself, but I knew someone who did and made some for
them for either their birthday or Christmas.

"djs0302" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Dee Randall wrote:
>>
>> See above wherein I stated:
>> I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
>> > called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
>> > night and put it in the frig.
>>
>> It sure got a lot of rising and proofing. 6-7 hours rising, 3 hours
>> proofing, then overnight!
>> I never had any trouble with raisin bread in a bread-maker, but then, the
>> recipe I used only called for 3 TB of sugar or honey. When I made that
>> recipe I used 3T of just about any kind of sweetener I wanted: carob
>> molasses, date molasses, briar rabbit, any organic sugar or honey on
>> hand.
>> Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.
>> Dee Dee
>
> Have you ever tried using your microwave oven as a proof box? You
> place a cup of water in the microwave and bring it to a boil. Then you
> move the cup of water off to the side and place the bread dough inside
> the oven and shut the door. The dough itself does not get microwaved.
> I've also done the same thing using a large pot on the stove. I place
> a rack inside the pot. Then I add a tiny bit of water and bring the
> water to a boil. After the water has boiled a few seconds I remove the
> pot from the stove and place the loaf of bread inside the pot on top of
> the rack. The rack is to keep the bread out of the water. I then
> cover the pot with a lid. I remember proofing a loaf of raisin bread
> this way and it seemed to work out well. I don't remember the recipe
> because it was quite a while back and I haven't made it since. I don't
> like raisin bread myself, but I knew someone who did and made some for
> them for either their birthday or Christmas.

Thanks for your proof box ideas. Yes, I've tried so many my head swims.
I've concocted some of my own. Mostly what I do nowadays is put it in a
container, cover it and let it sit in a room that is in the winter months
consistenly 80-82º. I could turn that room up a little more, but for some
reason I've decided on those figures. (Go figure -- ha ha!) For the first
rise, I put it in this same room in a straight-sided see-thru plastic
container marked in steps (in quarts and half quarts) and write down where
it started and where I expect it to rise to. I like the straight side
because there are no considerations as to how much it actually did rise.

I could be wrong on rising and proofing at 80-82 for these types of bread.
If it is a artisanal bread, I don't care how long it takes to rise (perhaps
I should); but I just look-see. If it hasn't moved, I will put it in the
refrigerator overnight.
Thanks,
Happy bread-making,
Dee Dee

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 18:44:58 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>
>"djs0302" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>
>> Dee Randall wrote:
>>>
>>> See above wherein I stated:
>>> I let it proof for maybe 3 hours (when it
>>> > called for 30-45 minutes) and finally gave up the ghost about 11pm last
>>> > night and put it in the frig.
>>>
>>> It sure got a lot of rising and proofing. 6-7 hours rising, 3 hours
>>> proofing, then overnight!
>>> I never had any trouble with raisin bread in a bread-maker, but then, the
>>> recipe I used only called for 3 TB of sugar or honey. When I made that
>>> recipe I used 3T of just about any kind of sweetener I wanted: carob
>>> molasses, date molasses, briar rabbit, any organic sugar or honey on
>>> hand.
>>> Thanks for your response, I appreciate it.
>>> Dee Dee
>>
>> Have you ever tried using your microwave oven as a proof box? You
>> place a cup of water in the microwave and bring it to a boil. Then you
>> move the cup of water off to the side and place the bread dough inside
>> the oven and shut the door. The dough itself does not get microwaved.
>> I've also done the same thing using a large pot on the stove. I place
>> a rack inside the pot. Then I add a tiny bit of water and bring the
>> water to a boil. After the water has boiled a few seconds I remove the
>> pot from the stove and place the loaf of bread inside the pot on top of
>> the rack. The rack is to keep the bread out of the water. I then
>> cover the pot with a lid. I remember proofing a loaf of raisin bread
>> this way and it seemed to work out well. I don't remember the recipe
>> because it was quite a while back and I haven't made it since. I don't
>> like raisin bread myself, but I knew someone who did and made some for
>> them for either their birthday or Christmas.
>
>Thanks for your proof box ideas. Yes, I've tried so many my head swims.
>I've concocted some of my own. Mostly what I do nowadays is put it in a
>container, cover it and let it sit in a room that is in the winter months
>consistenly 80-82º. I could turn that room up a little more, but for some
>reason I've decided on those figures. (Go figure -- ha ha!) For the first
>rise, I put it in this same room in a straight-sided see-thru plastic
>container marked in steps (in quarts and half quarts) and write down where
>it started and where I expect it to rise to. I like the straight side
>because there are no considerations as to how much it actually did rise.
>
>I could be wrong on rising and proofing at 80-82 for these types of bread.
>If it is a artisanal bread, I don't care how long it takes to rise (perhaps
>I should); but I just look-see. If it hasn't moved, I will put it in the
>refrigerator overnight.
>Thanks,
>Happy bread-making,
>Dee Dee
>

Put a rubber band around the plastic container at the level of the
dough. You can also put one on at the finish level if you wish.
An Alton Brown tip.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

">
> Put a rubber band around the plastic container at the level of the
> dough. You can also put one on at the finish level if you wish.
> An Alton Brown tip.
> --
> Susan N.

I already put one over the top to keep the seran-wrap sealed better, but I
will but one on 'each' level as your AB tip, in case one breaks!
Thanks,
Dee Dee