I brined my first chicken ever. According to "Cooks Illustrated"
"Pan-Roasted Chicken Breasts" for 2 whole bone-in chicken breasts (weighing
total abt 3 lbs) , they leave them 30 minutes of brine (1 cup salt + 2
quarts water). I had 3 half bone-in chicken breasts weighing about the same
for each breast (3/4 lb. ea)

Here is an article which states (for a whole chicken)
"The length of time the chicken sits in the brine is variable (I didn't dare
say 'up to you'), but I'd say 8 hours is the minimum, 12 hours is fine, and
after that the texture notably changes. Saying that I've left the chicken in
the brine for 24 hours and still found it tasty, after 48 hours you are
going to have to cook it or eat it- unless you like supermarket ham. I've
never brined longer than that- But by the third day 'food safety' would
become an issue."

I am wondering what 30 minutes accomplishes.

The chicken was tasty. It was chicken bought at Costco -- their new
'natural' chicken, I believe without chemicals, or something to that extent.

I prepared a vermouth sauce (in this Cooks Ill. recipe) for the breasts and
poured some over the rice. With the sauce, It tasted similar to Hainanese
or Singapore Chicken-Rice.

These breasts were too large for actually putting on one's plate and cutting
into and eating. If these breast bones can be roasted and used for chicken
stock, it seems there should be a correct way to cut off semi-neatly this
meat in slices for serving on a plate. I should have done this before
plating, but didn't think of it, nor knew the proper way to tackle the job.

Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.

About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
"Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to
slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
Thanks,
Dee Dee

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:

> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>
No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was
enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
figure it out.

> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to
> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?

Take it off the bone and *then* slice.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>
>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>>
> No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
> but buying an injected bird is bad.

That confuses me, too!

I tried brining once and that was
> enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
> figure it out.

I've never brined a chicken. First, let me say that I do not like turkey.
One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it in the
gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed eating.

>> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
>> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to
>> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
>
> Take it off the bone and *then* slice.

Good idea!

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?
>
> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
> >
> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
> >>
> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
> > but buying an injected bird is bad.
>
> That confuses me, too!

Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am
talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is
a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more
immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take
place, as in brining.

One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an
herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very
effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled
in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into
various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very
rewarding.

>
>
> I tried brining once and that was
> > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
>
> > figure it out.
>
> I've never brined a chicken.

I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did
not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to
learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a
simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between
pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop
at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and
thought it very good.

I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes
a marinade.
---
JL

> First, let me say that I do not like turkey.
> One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it
> in the
> gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed
> eating.
>
> >> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
> >> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is
> to
> >> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
> >
> > Take it off the bone and *then* slice.
>
> Good idea!
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright o¿o
> ____________________
>
> BIOYA

On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph
Littleshoes?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?
>>
>> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>> >
>> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>> >>
>> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
>> > but buying an injected bird is bad.
>>
>> That confuses me, too!
>
> Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am
> talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is
> a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more
> immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take
> place, as in brining.

It seems to me that commercial injection is mainly to bulk up the meat and
extend shelf life, not really an "enhancement". Even the simplest of
brines can work wonders with a meat.

> One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an
> herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very
> effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled
> in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into
> various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very
> rewarding.

That's the only type of injection I would really want to use.

>> I tried brining once and that was
>> > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
>>
>> > figure it out.
>>
>> I've never brined a chicken.
>
> I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did
> not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to
> learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a
> simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between
> pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop
> at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and
> thought it very good.

This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it overnight.

1 cup lemon juice
3/4 cup fresh orange juice
1 cup Kosher salt
1 cup packed light brown sugar
1 cup chopped yellow onion
2 oranges, cut in half
3 cinnamon sticks
2 tablespoons whole cloves
2 tablespoons whole allspice berries
1 cup brandy

I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent
results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges.

> I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes
> a marinade.

Probably, depending on whether you're also using the salt.


--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph
>
> Littleshoes?
>
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?
>
> >>
> >> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
> >> >>
> >> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is
> good,
> >> > but buying an injected bird is bad.
> >>
> >> That confuses me, too!
> >
> > Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i
> am
> > talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that
> brining is
> > a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a
> more
> > immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take
>
> > place, as in brining.
>
> It seems to me that commercial injection is mainly to bulk up the meat
> and
> extend shelf life, not really an "enhancement". Even the simplest of
> brines can work wonders with a meat.
>
> > One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an
> > herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very
>
> > effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be
> rolled
> > in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle"
> into
> > various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be
> very
> > rewarding.
>
> That's the only type of injection I would really want to use.
>
> >> I tried brining once and that was
> >> > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me
> to
> >>
> >> > figure it out.
> >>
> >> I've never brined a chicken.
> >
> > I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did
> > not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am
> tempted to
> > learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a
> > simple enough process, but im still working on the difference
> between
> > pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why
> stop
> > at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and
> > thought it very good.
>
> This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it
> overnight.
>
> 1 cup lemon juice
> 3/4 cup fresh orange juice
> 1 cup Kosher salt
> 1 cup packed light brown sugar
> 1 cup chopped yellow onion
> 2 oranges, cut in half
> 3 cinnamon sticks
> 2 tablespoons whole cloves
> 2 tablespoons whole allspice berries
> 1 cup brandy
>
> I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent
> results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges.
>
> > I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly
> becomes
> > a marinade.
>
> Probably, depending on whether you're also using the salt.

Very interesting. I have been wanting to experiment with salt in the
marinade.
---
JL

>
>
> --
> Wayne Boatwright o¿o
> ____________________
>
> BIOYA

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph
> Littleshoes?
>
> > Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> >
(snip)

>
> This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it overnight.
>
> 1 cup lemon juice
> 3/4 cup fresh orange juice
> 1 cup Kosher salt
> 1 cup packed light brown sugar
> 1 cup chopped yellow onion
> 2 oranges, cut in half
> 3 cinnamon sticks
> 2 tablespoons whole cloves
> 2 tablespoons whole allspice berries
> 1 cup brandy
>
> I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent
> results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges.
>


Thanks for the recipe, Wayne. I'm gonna borrow it. TFM® has his own brine
recipe, but it uses hot sauce which I don't do, so he's never brined
anything for me. This one sounds more up my alley.

kili

Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>>On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?
>>
>>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.

I'd say that 30-minute brining is a token gesture. The formula posted is
too concentrated for my tastes. I'd cut the ratio to 1 cup salt to one
gallon water. Add whatever other flavorings you'd like, but be sparing.
They can sneak up and surprise you. For breasts on the bone, I'd do
about 6 hours. Boneless, maybe 4 hours. Whole chicken, skin-on, 24 hours.

Shrimp - 45 minutes. Fish filets - 1 1/2 hours. Pork - 12 hours per
pound. Game meats - same as pork.

>>>No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
>>>but buying an injected bird is bad.
>>
>>That confuses me, too!
>
> Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am
> talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is
> a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more
> immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take
> place, as in brining.

That's all true. Brining affects all the cells in the meat by literally
changing their physical characteristics. A 5% brine solution is my
favorite concentration (cup salt, gallon water) because it balances time
against intensity. The processes happening when brining are complex and
involve both osmosis and diffusion - but aren't important to the
culinary understanding. Injection just puts liquid in the intercellular
spaces which can slowly migrate into cells, but not as efficiently.

The process is that the salinity of the brine cause migration of
water-based juices out of the meat. After a while, an equilibrium is
established which causes the process to reverse so the solution goes
into the meat bringing any flavor elements with it. Typically, the meat
will absorb enough water and seasonings to increase the weight between
12% and 17%

But since cooking denatures protein and causes it to release water-based
juices, it happens here even more. But not enough to negate the effects
of proper brining. Net effect is that brining will make the meat more
moist to the bite, more tender and it will cause it to cook a bit more
quickly. Pan juices can be too salty for gravy-making - taste before
trying it.

> One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an
> herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very
> effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled
> in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into
> various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very
> rewarding.

Larding is putting any fat through meats. My favorite way it to cut
bacon strips lengthwise and freeze them. Poke holes in roasts or birds
with a (freshly washed) sharpening steel and push the bacon pieces
through. Larding needles are tricky to use, and are difficult to find
nowadays, since fat became a four-letter word.

>>I tried brining once and that was
>>>enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
>>>figure it out.
>>
>>I've never brined a chicken.
>
> I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did
> not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to
> learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a
> simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between
> pickling and brining,

Pickling is a preservation process. Brining, in this context, is a
flavoring, tenderizing and accelerated cooking time process. Pickling
usually uses much more concentrated solutions.

> i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop
> at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and
> thought it very good.

The Coke formed a surface glaze. It very likely didn't penetrate very
deeply into the meat.

> I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes
> a marinade.

Marinades typically contain oil and an acid plus flavoring ingredients.
The point of marinades is to flavor the outer tiny bit of the meat.

>
>>First, let me say that I do not like turkey.
>>One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it
>>in the gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed
>>eating.
>>
>>
>>>>About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
>>>>"Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is
>>>>to slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
>>>
>>>Take it off the bone and *then* slice.
>>
>>Good idea!

Works for turkey, too. That way you have a slab of meat that doesn't
have top accommodate bones.

Pastorio

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:03:52 -0500, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

>>>>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>
>I'd say that 30-minute brining is a token gesture. The formula posted is
>too concentrated for my tastes.

Which is why 30 minutes is enough to give the moisture. Thirty minutes on
chicken breasts is not just a token gesture. This is a natural process
that starts working immediately, and a cut of chicken is small enough that
it doesn't take all that long for the salt water to move into it.

--
Siobhan Perricone
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family,
people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can
prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
- Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay

sf wrote on 11 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
> but buying an injected bird is bad.

Well let's see injected ...you shoot/force fluids into the bird increasing
it's weight. Brining...you soak the bird in a flavoured salt bath causing
the salty flavoured fluid to replace via osmosis some of the normal fluids
in the bird.

Also I don't believe the injected birds are flavour tailored to your
personal taste. As you can with a brine. See the various brine recipes that
use garlic powder, oj concentrate etc...

Brining...You buy the bird then mess with it's weight, hence only paying
per lb for chicken, not the 15% weight increase that would be salted water
if it were injected.

--
-Alan

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>
>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
>> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to
>> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
>
> Take it off the bone and *then* slice.
> --

Hmm. Such a simple statement but:

Here's the drill: You've cooked the breast that has the bone in. You've
let it sit 5 minutes to retain the juices. It's still warm. You want to
take the meat off the bone. With your hands? Is there a certain technique.
Is it easily slideable offible? Do you slice it OUT with out knife?
Totally confused about taking a warm tasty piece of chicken breast off it's
bone and not demolish it so as to cut it in nice slices. Have you done
this? Or others, have you done this. Some have said that it's a good idea,
have you done this?

I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed around
it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I just start
slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that extra meat off
if I'm going to bake the bones for stock?

Thanks,
Dee Dee


Thanks

On Sun 12 Mar 2006 06:37:13a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dee
Randall?

>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>>
>>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>>> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this
>>> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to
>>> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast?
>>
>> Take it off the bone and *then* slice.
>> --
>
> Hmm. Such a simple statement but:
>
> Here's the drill: You've cooked the breast that has the bone in.
> You've let it sit 5 minutes to retain the juices. It's still warm. You
> want to take the meat off the bone. With your hands? Is there a
> certain technique. Is it easily slideable offible? Do you slice it OUT
> with out knife? Totally confused about taking a warm tasty piece of
> chicken breast off it's bone and not demolish it so as to cut it in nice
> slices. Have you done this? Or others, have you done this. Some have
> said that it's a good idea, have you done this?

I haven't done this with chicken breasts, but I have done it with turkey
and capon breasts. While the meat is still warm, using gloved hands I
gently work the entire hunk of meat away from the bone. It usually comes
away in one unbroken piece which is then easily sliced. I also do that
when I plan to slice it cold. As soon as it's off the bone, I wrap tightly
in plastic wrap, then foil.

> I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed
> around it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I
> just start slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that
> extra meat off if I'm going to bake the bones for stock?

Slice down as far as you can, then remove the remainder with your fingers.
There undoubtedly be meat that you cannot remove with the knife.

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

Dee Randall wrote:

> I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed around
> it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I just start
> slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that extra meat off
> if I'm going to bake the bones for stock?

Actually, it's very easy to remove the meat from the bone. You don't
need a knife. Slide your finger between the meat and the bone (starting
at the keel-edge and poking all the way to the outer edge) and then
slide it to the ends, keeping tightly to the bone. The meat comes off in
a tidy piece.

To get cooked meat off, use a fork. Slide it under the meat against the
bone. Hold the bone down and lift the meat. Most of it will come off
rather neatly. If it looks like it won't, slide the fork back and forth
under the meat and finish lifting.

Pastorio

On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf >
wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>
>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>>
>No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
>but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was
>enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
>figure it out.

Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject. When
you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite
brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt and
water.

--
Siobhan Perricone
"Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family,
people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can
prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have."
- Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:44:24 -0500, Siobhan Perricone wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf >
> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
> >
> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
> >>
> >No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
> >but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was
> >enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
> >figure it out.
>
> Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject. When
> you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite
> brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt and
> water.

The one time I brined a bird was so long ago I don't remember what the
recipe was, but the end result was I didn't think it was worth the
time or the trouble. Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider a citrus
brine. I'm not all a-twitter about sticking a lemon inside my chicken
either. I like a savory flavor on a crispy skin and I want my chicken
meat to taste like chicken.
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:44:24 -0500, Siobhan Perricone wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
>> >
>> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining.
>> >>
>> >No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good,
>> >but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was
>> >enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to
>> >figure it out.
>>
>> Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject.
>> When
>> you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite
>> brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt
>> and
>> water.
>
> The one time I brined a bird was so long ago I don't remember what the
> recipe was, but the end result was I didn't think it was worth the
> time or the trouble. Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider a citrus
> brine. I'm not all a-twitter about sticking a lemon inside my chicken
> either. I like a savory flavor on a crispy skin and I want my chicken
> meat to taste like chicken.

The brine suggested by CI was salt & water.
Thanks,
Dee Dee