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I brined my first chicken ever. According to "Cooks Illustrated"
"Pan-Roasted Chicken Breasts" for 2 whole bone-in chicken breasts (weighing total abt 3 lbs) , they leave them 30 minutes of brine (1 cup salt + 2 quarts water). I had 3 half bone-in chicken breasts weighing about the same for each breast (3/4 lb. ea) Here is an article which states (for a whole chicken) "The length of time the chicken sits in the brine is variable (I didn't dare say 'up to you'), but I'd say 8 hours is the minimum, 12 hours is fine, and after that the texture notably changes. Saying that I've left the chicken in the brine for 24 hours and still found it tasty, after 48 hours you are going to have to cook it or eat it- unless you like supermarket ham. I've never brined longer than that- But by the third day 'food safety' would become an issue." I am wondering what 30 minutes accomplishes. The chicken was tasty. It was chicken bought at Costco -- their new 'natural' chicken, I believe without chemicals, or something to that extent. I prepared a vermouth sauce (in this Cooks Ill. recipe) for the breasts and poured some over the rice. With the sauce, It tasted similar to Hainanese or Singapore Chicken-Rice. These breasts were too large for actually putting on one's plate and cutting into and eating. If these breast bones can be roasted and used for chicken stock, it seems there should be a correct way to cut off semi-neatly this meat in slices for serving on a plate. I should have done this before plating, but didn't think of it, nor knew the proper way to tackle the job. Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? Thanks, Dee Dee |
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote:
> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to figure it out. > About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this > "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to > slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? Take it off the bone and *then* slice. -- Practice safe eating. Always use condiments. |
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On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf?
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, > but buying an injected bird is bad. That confuses me, too! I tried brining once and that was > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to > figure it out. I've never brined a chicken. First, let me say that I do not like turkey. One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it in the gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed eating. >> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this >> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to >> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? > > Take it off the bone and *then* slice. Good idea! -- Wayne Boatwright o¿o ____________________ BIOYA |
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf? > > > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > > > >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. > >> > > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, > > but buying an injected bird is bad. > > That confuses me, too! Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take place, as in brining. One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very rewarding. > > > I tried brining once and that was > > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to > > > figure it out. > > I've never brined a chicken. I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and thought it very good. I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes a marinade. --- JL > First, let me say that I do not like turkey. > One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it > in the > gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed > eating. > > >> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this > >> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is > to > >> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? > > > > Take it off the bone and *then* slice. > > Good idea! > > -- > Wayne Boatwright o¿o > ____________________ > > BIOYA |
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On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph
Littleshoes? > Wayne Boatwright wrote: > >> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf? >> >> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: >> > >> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >> >> >> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, >> > but buying an injected bird is bad. >> >> That confuses me, too! > > Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am > talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is > a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more > immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take > place, as in brining. It seems to me that commercial injection is mainly to bulk up the meat and extend shelf life, not really an "enhancement". Even the simplest of brines can work wonders with a meat. > One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an > herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very > effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled > in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into > various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very > rewarding. That's the only type of injection I would really want to use. >> I tried brining once and that was >> > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to >> >> > figure it out. >> >> I've never brined a chicken. > > I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did > not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to > learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a > simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between > pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop > at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and > thought it very good. This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it overnight. 1 cup lemon juice 3/4 cup fresh orange juice 1 cup Kosher salt 1 cup packed light brown sugar 1 cup chopped yellow onion 2 oranges, cut in half 3 cinnamon sticks 2 tablespoons whole cloves 2 tablespoons whole allspice berries 1 cup brandy I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges. > I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes > a marinade. Probably, depending on whether you're also using the salt. -- Wayne Boatwright o¿o ____________________ BIOYA |
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Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph > > Littleshoes? > > > Wayne Boatwright wrote: > > > >> On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf? > > >> > >> > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > >> > > >> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. > >> >> > >> > No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is > good, > >> > but buying an injected bird is bad. > >> > >> That confuses me, too! > > > > Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i > am > > talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that > brining is > > a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a > more > > immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take > > > place, as in brining. > > It seems to me that commercial injection is mainly to bulk up the meat > and > extend shelf life, not really an "enhancement". Even the simplest of > brines can work wonders with a meat. > > > One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an > > herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very > > > effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be > rolled > > in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" > into > > various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be > very > > rewarding. > > That's the only type of injection I would really want to use. > > >> I tried brining once and that was > >> > enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me > to > >> > >> > figure it out. > >> > >> I've never brined a chicken. > > > > I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did > > not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am > tempted to > > learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a > > simple enough process, but im still working on the difference > between > > pickling and brining, i keep thinking that if im going to brine why > stop > > at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and > > thought it very good. > > This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it > overnight. > > 1 cup lemon juice > 3/4 cup fresh orange juice > 1 cup Kosher salt > 1 cup packed light brown sugar > 1 cup chopped yellow onion > 2 oranges, cut in half > 3 cinnamon sticks > 2 tablespoons whole cloves > 2 tablespoons whole allspice berries > 1 cup brandy > > I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent > results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges. > > > I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly > becomes > > a marinade. > > Probably, depending on whether you're also using the salt. Very interesting. I have been wanting to experiment with salt in the marinade. --- JL > > > -- > Wayne Boatwright o¿o > ____________________ > > BIOYA |
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![]() "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message 28.19... > On Sat 11 Mar 2006 10:51:44p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Joseph > Littleshoes? > > > Wayne Boatwright wrote: > > (snip) > > This is the brine I used for the turkey breast. I brined it overnight. > > 1 cup lemon juice > 3/4 cup fresh orange juice > 1 cup Kosher salt > 1 cup packed light brown sugar > 1 cup chopped yellow onion > 2 oranges, cut in half > 3 cinnamon sticks > 2 tablespoons whole cloves > 2 tablespoons whole allspice berries > 1 cup brandy > > I have since used it to brine whole Cornish game hens with excellent > results. I stuffed the cavities with chunks of oranges. > Thanks for the recipe, Wayne. I'm gonna borrow it. TFM® has his own brine recipe, but it uses hot sauce which I don't do, so he's never brined anything for me. This one sounds more up my alley. kili |
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Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
> Wayne Boatwright wrote: > >>On Sat 11 Mar 2006 09:23:34p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it sf? >> >>>On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: >>> >>>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. I'd say that 30-minute brining is a token gesture. The formula posted is too concentrated for my tastes. I'd cut the ratio to 1 cup salt to one gallon water. Add whatever other flavorings you'd like, but be sparing. They can sneak up and surprise you. For breasts on the bone, I'd do about 6 hours. Boneless, maybe 4 hours. Whole chicken, skin-on, 24 hours. Shrimp - 45 minutes. Fish filets - 1 1/2 hours. Pork - 12 hours per pound. Game meats - same as pork. >>>No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, >>>but buying an injected bird is bad. >> >>That confuses me, too! > > Well since i have pretty well demonstrated i haven't a clue what i am > talking about, and purely as a hobbyist, i would suggest that brining is > a long process of hours and an injection of something in meat is a more > immediate process with out the time for particular processes to take > place, as in brining. That's all true. Brining affects all the cells in the meat by literally changing their physical characteristics. A 5% brine solution is my favorite concentration (cup salt, gallon water) because it balances time against intensity. The processes happening when brining are complex and involve both osmosis and diffusion - but aren't important to the culinary understanding. Injection just puts liquid in the intercellular spaces which can slowly migrate into cells, but not as efficiently. The process is that the salinity of the brine cause migration of water-based juices out of the meat. After a while, an equilibrium is established which causes the process to reverse so the solution goes into the meat bringing any flavor elements with it. Typically, the meat will absorb enough water and seasonings to increase the weight between 12% and 17% But since cooking denatures protein and causes it to release water-based juices, it happens here even more. But not enough to negate the effects of proper brining. Net effect is that brining will make the meat more moist to the bite, more tender and it will cause it to cook a bit more quickly. Pan juices can be too salty for gravy-making - taste before trying it. > One can encourage injections though purely for flavor, injecting an > herbal butter, or fruit purees into various cuts of meat can be very > effective. "Larding" is similar when long strings of fat can be rolled > in various herbs and spices and "larded" with a "larding needle" into > various cuts of meat. Injecting various liquors and wines can be very > rewarding. Larding is putting any fat through meats. My favorite way it to cut bacon strips lengthwise and freeze them. Poke holes in roasts or birds with a (freshly washed) sharpening steel and push the bacon pieces through. Larding needles are tricky to use, and are difficult to find nowadays, since fat became a four-letter word. >>I tried brining once and that was >>>enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to >>>figure it out. >> >>I've never brined a chicken. > > I keep meaning to, i considered brining last winters turkey but did > not. We get a local deli brined chicken that is so good i am tempted to > learn to do it myself, from what i have read here on RFC it seems a > simple enough process, but im still working on the difference between > pickling and brining, Pickling is a preservation process. Brining, in this context, is a flavoring, tenderizing and accelerated cooking time process. Pickling usually uses much more concentrated solutions. > i keep thinking that if im going to brine why stop > at just salt and water. I have eaten ham soaked in coca cola and > thought it very good. The Coke formed a surface glaze. It very likely didn't penetrate very deeply into the meat. > I keep thinking i want to brine with wine. But then that probly becomes > a marinade. Marinades typically contain oil and an acid plus flavoring ingredients. The point of marinades is to flavor the outer tiny bit of the meat. > >>First, let me say that I do not like turkey. >>One Thanksgiving I brined a bone-in turkey breast and rotisseried it >>in the gas grill. It was the only turkey I can honestly say I enjoyed >>eating. >> >> >>>>About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this >>>>"Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is >>>>to slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? >>> >>>Take it off the bone and *then* slice. >> >>Good idea! Works for turkey, too. That way you have a slab of meat that doesn't have top accommodate bones. Pastorio |
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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 03:03:52 -0500, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote: >>>>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. > >I'd say that 30-minute brining is a token gesture. The formula posted is >too concentrated for my tastes. Which is why 30 minutes is enough to give the moisture. Thirty minutes on chicken breasts is not just a token gesture. This is a natural process that starts working immediately, and a cut of chicken is small enough that it doesn't take all that long for the salt water to move into it. -- Siobhan Perricone "Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay |
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sf wrote on 11 Mar 2006 in rec.food.cooking
> I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, > but buying an injected bird is bad. Well let's see injected ...you shoot/force fluids into the bird increasing it's weight. Brining...you soak the bird in a flavoured salt bath causing the salty flavoured fluid to replace via osmosis some of the normal fluids in the bird. Also I don't believe the injected birds are flavour tailored to your personal taste. As you can with a brine. See the various brine recipes that use garlic powder, oj concentrate etc... Brining...You buy the bird then mess with it's weight, hence only paying per lb for chicken, not the 15% weight increase that would be salted water if it were injected. -- -Alan |
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![]() "sf" > wrote in message ... > On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this >> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to >> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? > > Take it off the bone and *then* slice. > -- Hmm. Such a simple statement but: Here's the drill: You've cooked the breast that has the bone in. You've let it sit 5 minutes to retain the juices. It's still warm. You want to take the meat off the bone. With your hands? Is there a certain technique. Is it easily slideable offible? Do you slice it OUT with out knife? Totally confused about taking a warm tasty piece of chicken breast off it's bone and not demolish it so as to cut it in nice slices. Have you done this? Or others, have you done this. Some have said that it's a good idea, have you done this? I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed around it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I just start slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that extra meat off if I'm going to bake the bones for stock? Thanks, Dee Dee Thanks |
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On Sun 12 Mar 2006 06:37:13a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Dee
Randall? > > "sf" > wrote in message > ... >> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: >> >>> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >>> About all I see regarding slicing cooked chicken-breast is this >>> "Slice the breasts on a diagonal." Is this just about all there is to >>> slicing a BONE-IN chicken breast? >> >> Take it off the bone and *then* slice. >> -- > > Hmm. Such a simple statement but: > > Here's the drill: You've cooked the breast that has the bone in. > You've let it sit 5 minutes to retain the juices. It's still warm. You > want to take the meat off the bone. With your hands? Is there a > certain technique. Is it easily slideable offible? Do you slice it OUT > with out knife? Totally confused about taking a warm tasty piece of > chicken breast off it's bone and not demolish it so as to cut it in nice > slices. Have you done this? Or others, have you done this. Some have > said that it's a good idea, have you done this? I haven't done this with chicken breasts, but I have done it with turkey and capon breasts. While the meat is still warm, using gloved hands I gently work the entire hunk of meat away from the bone. It usually comes away in one unbroken piece which is then easily sliced. I also do that when I plan to slice it cold. As soon as it's off the bone, I wrap tightly in plastic wrap, then foil. > I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed > around it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I > just start slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that > extra meat off if I'm going to bake the bones for stock? Slice down as far as you can, then remove the remainder with your fingers. There undoubtedly be meat that you cannot remove with the knife. -- Wayne Boatwright o¿o ____________________ BIOYA |
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Dee Randall wrote:
> I have one breast left, but it's cold, I feel it's probably congealed around > it's bone. As I see it, it would be a bigger problem. Would I just start > slicing it and see what meat is left on the bone? Take that extra meat off > if I'm going to bake the bones for stock? Actually, it's very easy to remove the meat from the bone. You don't need a knife. Slide your finger between the meat and the bone (starting at the keel-edge and poking all the way to the outer edge) and then slide it to the ends, keeping tightly to the bone. The meat comes off in a tidy piece. To get cooked meat off, use a fork. Slide it under the meat against the bone. Hold the bone down and lift the meat. Most of it will come off rather neatly. If it looks like it won't, slide the fork back and forth under the meat and finish lifting. Pastorio |
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On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf >
wrote: >On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >> >No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, >but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was >enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to >figure it out. Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject. When you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt and water. -- Siobhan Perricone "Believing there is no God gives me more room for belief in family, people, love, truth, beauty, sex, Jell-o and all the other things I can prove and that make this life the best life I will ever have." - Penn Jillette from his "This I Believe" essay |
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On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:44:24 -0500, Siobhan Perricone wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf > > wrote: > > >On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: > > > >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. > >> > >No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, > >but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was > >enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to > >figure it out. > > Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject. When > you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite > brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt and > water. The one time I brined a bird was so long ago I don't remember what the recipe was, but the end result was I didn't think it was worth the time or the trouble. Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider a citrus brine. I'm not all a-twitter about sticking a lemon inside my chicken either. I like a savory flavor on a crispy skin and I want my chicken meat to taste like chicken. -- Practice safe eating. Always use condiments. |
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![]() "sf" > wrote in message ... > On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 08:44:24 -0500, Siobhan Perricone wrote: > >> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 20:23:34 -0800, sf > >> wrote: >> >> >On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 19:27:59 -0500, Dee Randall wrote: >> > >> >> Any help appreciated regarding 30-minute brining. >> >> >> >No help here. I'm constantly confoosled about why brining is good, >> >but buying an injected bird is bad. I tried brining once and that was >> >enough to convince me there wasn't a big enough difference for me to >> >figure it out. >> >> Because when they inject, you have no control over what they inject. >> When >> you brine it yourself, you can introduce other flavours. My favourite >> brines include bitter orange juice and some other spices, not just salt >> and >> water. > > The one time I brined a bird was so long ago I don't remember what the > recipe was, but the end result was I didn't think it was worth the > time or the trouble. Quite honestly, I wouldn't consider a citrus > brine. I'm not all a-twitter about sticking a lemon inside my chicken > either. I like a savory flavor on a crispy skin and I want my chicken > meat to taste like chicken. The brine suggested by CI was salt & water. Thanks, Dee Dee |
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