"~patches~" > wrote:
> It not like the PDA is entertaining me more that it puts up a wall that
> says I don't want to have anything to do with you, leave me alone, do your
> business and let me do mine.

I know what you mean to a certain extent. I know at times in my life I've
felt the same way. Generally I don't interfere with other people's business
in those situations, I just observe and keep my mouth shut, and try not to
make any facial expressions that would show my opinion that way.

But I do find a lot of what goes on in crowd and street life situations very
entertaining. My one brother is just discovering this aspect of life where
he recently moved. He found that once he got out of his car, there was a
whole other world out there that he didn't see before. Like riding public
transportation. Not only do they get you to your destination for a cheap
$1.25, they also provide a free show. He thinks it is very entertaining
watching, though his wife was not amused at all. I was with him riding a
couple of weeks ago, and boy did we get a show on our return trip.

A group of white suburban teenagers got on, going to a concert downtown in
one of America's true hell holes (which I will not name so as to not offend
anyone). Though the temperature was in 30s, none of them were wearing a
coat... that wouldn't be cool. What if the train breaks down or doesn't
arrive on time at the station, but whatever. At the same time they got on,
so did a black guy in his 20s that happened to be drunk. He thought he'd
have some fun with these kids. He started off by offering them various
drugs, just in jest I am sure. Then he started to cut up a blonde girl who
was dressed like a harlot (though not significantly more so that some of the
others). He made all kinds of comments about her, how he was going to make
her a star, how sexy she looked, etc. A lot of it was pretty degrading if
taken too seriously. At a subsequent stop, some more of these teenagers got
on, including a redhead made up even worse than the blonde. He then cut her
up for a while. But then, being equal opportunity, he started on one of the
guys. He returned to the drug theme again, and warned the kid about what he
was going to experience once he got caught. He said the black dudes in
prison are just going to love pounding his tight little white boy ass. After
this went on for a little while longer, an elderly black woman yells at him
to shut up. As the train came to our stop to get off, we don't know if the
show continued.

> These types of suspicions should have been reported if only for the sake
> of the kids. Re-read what you wrote. There are a number of agencies you
> could have anonymously reported to that could have done something.

Actually, some of the things I did report both anonymously and not. On the
car, I tried twice with the police and once with the condo site manager. The
first occassion with the police, they wouldn't do anything because the car
was parked on private property. The fact that the car was a 1986 Buick and
the plate was registered to a 1993 Mitsubishi didn't seem to faze them.
Normally when they see this they will confiscate the plate. But on this
Buick, it wasn't held on with screws, but dropped into a slot when you
opened the trunk. So they would have to break into the trunk to confiscate
it. I suggested they deface the plate with a magic marker, so it would be
obvious if seen on the road. No, that would be destroying government
property, can't do that. One day while walking past the police station, I
saw her drive past, and went inside to again request that they track down
this car. I provided them with make, model, body style, color, tag number,
address... and they still couldn't be bothered. She drove for an additional
four months before she was caught. The night she was caught, she left the
kids "home alone", another frequent occurance. I thought of calling many
times on that too, but was never sure how long she would be away compared to
how long it would take for the police to respond. I was worried about the
kids getting into something and burning the house down, among other things.
One day they brought fireworks home from some friend, and lit them off
INSIDE the house. Luckily the mother was home that time, and she went beserk
when they did it. I'm sure it scared the hell out of her, as is scared me
even in the next house.

I don't know if Washington, DC is different than other large cities, but I
suspect not. It is very hard to get various city agencies involved in a
problem unless some kind of disaster strikes. Then when it does strike, they
act as if "who would have known that was going to happen?".

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

No.

The great mass of people is not the font of art. It is the market for
art.

Whether a random person on the subway can explain "folding" is
irrelevant to the continued knowledge of the process, as there are more
schools every day capable of teaching anyone interested how to perform
it correctly (and probably better than the average biscuit-baking
granny ever could).

As long as it's written down, it's not being "lost".

--Blair

"~patches~" > wrote:
> wff_ng_7 wrote:
>> - Long commutes. Some people insist on having the "perfect" house and
>> then drive hours a day getting to and from work. That time could be spent
>> on other activities, cooking being but one of them. At some point one has
>> to say what good is the perfect house if you are never there.
>
> I was guilty of this when I was getting my education. My daily commute
> totaled 3 hours in good weather. The reason behind this is we decided
> commuting was a better choice than moving our kids to a city. So for 10
> years, I did that daily. Yet my kids ate home cooked meals every day and
> they were healthy meals. DH and I made sure of that. DH is a good cook
> in his own right and our kids all learned to cook. During that time, I
> also did all my own home preserving - canning, freezing, drying - and I
> still do.

I know the problem well because I also used to do it. For about 11 years, I
was driving between 36 and 42 miles each way to and from work. That was in
the 1980s. I thought the traffic was bad then, but little did I know how bad
it would eventually get. It would be pure insanity to try and drive those
same routes today. But plenty of people still regularly do it, so I guess
there is a lot of insanity going around! ;-)

I think a lot of the problem is people looking for bigger houses and yards.
My house at 1,500 square feet is actually slightly above the average for
when it was built (1963). But today, it is well below the average (I believe
it is around 2,200 square feet now). Funny thing is as families have gotten
smaller, the houses have gotten bigger.

In reality, there is tons of available, underutilized land close in to most
major American cities in the northeast. There is so much in fact that you
really couldn't build on it quickly without depressing the market. Here in
the Washington area, there was a large rail yard just outside downtown,
adjacent to National Airport. When it became available over a decade ago,
the thought was there was no way to make use of it immediately because of
its size of hundreds of acres. The building on it will take decades. As a
temporary measure, part of it was leased for the building of a large strip
shopping center with a life of something like 20-30 years. By that time they
figured they could tear it down and put more appropriate development (for
the center of a major metropolis) there.

There are also large tracts of land within DC itself that were essentially
ignored for decades. Within walking distance of my house (which is 8 blocks
from the Capitol), there are such things as a metal scrap yard, a huge
abandoned office building right on the river, and an abandoned power plant.
This land was only "discovered" when the city decided to build a new
baseball stadium in the midst of this stuff.

You wouldn't be building big detached houses on big lots on these sites, but
there sure is a lot of room for townhouses and apartments, amongst other
things.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

Doug Kanter wrote:

>>> There's a fabulous cookbook that's been around forever. It explains
>>> all the terms described in the Washington Post article. Mention it
>>> here, and a handful of insipid little ****s will belittle the book
>>> because it never was, and still is not trendy. But, it takes the place
>>> of an important thing in cooking: the passing down of knowledge from
>>> one generation to another. I'm not sure why this continuum of
>>> knowledge has been interrupted, but I suspect it's related to
>>> two-income households. There was a time when kids came home from
>>> school and found someone cooking. And, not just cooking, but doing it
>>> slowly and deliberately, in a way which might catch the attention of
>>> little kids. (Forget teenagers). This type of thing was gone for a
>>> couple of decades. It still is, in many households.
>> Doug, what is the name of the book?
>>
>> Michael
>
> "Joy of Cooking". Now, get ready for the insipid ****s to arrive with
> comments. Two of them are regulars here.

I LOVE JoC!! That was one of my wedding presents many years ago. I used
to sit and read it like one would a novel, lol.
Goomba (who wonders if she qualifies as a ****??)

Doug Kanter wrote:

> Like any societal change, this one requires 2-3 generations (or more) to
> change. My teenage son has other things on his mind, like talking on the
> phone all day while functioning as a heavy weight to keep the sofa from
> flying out the window. During his occasional moments of partial awareness, I
> rag on him about how he might want to spend some time with me in the kitchen
> so he learns, and doesn't starve to death when he's living on his own. What
> would sons have been told in the 1950s? Maybe nothing? Would there have been
> the unspoken expection that as soon as they were done with college, a woman
> would magically appear to cook for them? I don't recall what I absorbed when
> I was 8 years old. What I *do* know is that in college, there were plenty of
> guys whose entire relationship with women involved having someone to do
> their laundry.

My son has discovered cooking... for girls! Besides that cooking is
another activity that he and a bunch of his frat brothers have been
doing..probably because it saves money for more drinking and debauchery?
<sigh>
LOL

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>
>> Like any societal change, this one requires 2-3 generations (or more) to
>> change. My teenage son has other things on his mind, like talking on the
>> phone all day while functioning as a heavy weight to keep the sofa from
>> flying out the window. During his occasional moments of partial
>> awareness, I rag on him about how he might want to spend some time with
>> me in the kitchen so he learns, and doesn't starve to death when he's
>> living on his own. What would sons have been told in the 1950s? Maybe
>> nothing? Would there have been the unspoken expection that as soon as
>> they were done with college, a woman would magically appear to cook for
>> them? I don't recall what I absorbed when I was 8 years old. What I *do*
>> know is that in college, there were plenty of guys whose entire
>> relationship with women involved having someone to do their laundry.
>
> My son has discovered cooking... for girls! Besides that cooking is
> another activity that he and a bunch of his frat brothers have been
> doing..probably because it saves money for more drinking and debauchery?
> <sigh>
> LOL

Hey...whatever works. What little my son does, he does because he's found
that for maybe 95% of the food we eat, you can make it better at home.

wff_ng_7 wrote:

> I guess I don't look at whats's IN other people's shopping carts, but I most
> certainly do look at what's on the conveyor belt in front of and behind my
> order. I'm not sure if it is self righteousness as much as it is just
> curiosity. ..
>
> I'm an observer of life, and I want to see what's going on around me.


You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever
to a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers'
weight and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.


--Lia

wff_ng_7 wrote:

> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote:
>
>>wff_ng_7 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I guess I don't look at whats's IN other people's shopping carts, but I
>>>most certainly do look at what's on the conveyor belt in front of and
>>>behind my order. I'm not sure if it is self righteousness as much as it
>>>is just curiosity. ..
>>>
>>>I'm an observer of life, and I want to see what's going on around me.
>>
>>
>>You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
>>at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever to
>>a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
>>curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
>>in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers' weight
>>and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.
>
>
> Being an observer can be in all kinds of things, and it doesn't have to
> involve people. It can be observing the natural world around us. Right
> behind my house there's a tree whose branches reach the balcony of a nearby
> house. On that balcony, there is a "bottomless" bucket of peanuts. Of
> course, this tree is "squirrel central". Though I can't garden because the
> squirrels are forever tearing up my planting beds burying and digging up
> their peanuts, I find them quite entertaining. Squirrels do pay attention to
> people and what they are doing. Often I will just stare out my picture
> window at them, and they will definitely notice me. Sometimes they don't
> notice and I will wave my arms... they do notice the motion, stop what they
> are doing, and stare back. I'm sure if anyone saw me, they'd think I was a
> nut and wonder what I was doing.

Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one
Christmas I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was
not amused cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water
now so have a problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts
to the blue jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me
around when I'm outside, bold as anything! DH said no bird feeders as
we've had a rodent problem and we do have a lot of other wildlife.
>
> This past Sunday morning I heard this most interesting hammering noise. I'm
> sure most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But I recognized it for
> what it was: the distinctive sound of a woodpecker. I stopped to try and
> find it, but was unsuccessful. On one prior occassion I did spot one. Quite
> interesting to find in downtown Washington, DC. If you're not looking, you
> miss an awful lot of stuff.

Woodpeckers are really neat as are nuthatchers. You want to encourage
woodpeckers because they eat harmful bugs. Nuthatchers are just cool
because of the way they walk head first down the trees. I like the gold
finches too. We have a pair of cardinals that are really pretty. I'm
not fond of mourning doves since they are a relative of pigeons and are
a really messy bird. We have a lot of hawks of which I kind of have a
love hate relationsip with. They are gorgeous birds but bring a whole
new meaning to natural selection!
>

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 06:16:33 -0600, "jmcquown"
> wrote:

>ensenadajim wrote:
>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:46:08 -0600, "jmcquown"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I once bought a book for a friend called "How to Boil Water". There
>>> is no such thing as a stupid cookbook if it actually helps people
>>> learn how to cook.
>>
>>
>> I think a new addition will be out in 2010 or so. I wish I had seen
>> this before making a nearly identicle post.
>>
>>
>> jim
>
>The first chapter explains how to boil hot dogs. And wait! there's more!
>You *can* make grilled cheese sandwiches!
>
>I should say the woman I gave this cookbook to wasn't illiterate and she was
>a very good friend of mine. For her 20th birthday I gave her a copy of the
>'Good Housekeeping' cookbook. She was a newlywed and I figured it would be
>a slightly better choice now that she'd figured out how to boil water
>
>Jill
>

I had an interesting conversation with my 84-year-old mother about
this "dummying down" of cookbooks. From her perspective, it has to do
with more than a full generation being brought up on fast food,
microwave and throw-in-the-oven dinners. Far too many young ones have
not been taught the rudiments of boiling water, let alone any cooking
that is pointed in the direction of serious cooking.


jim

On 20 Mar 2006 11:27:19 -0800, "Blair P. Houghton"
> wrote:

>No.
>
>The great mass of people is not the font of art. It is the market for
>art.
>
>Whether a random person on the subway can explain "folding" is
>irrelevant to the continued knowledge of the process, as there are more
>schools every day capable of teaching anyone interested how to perform
>it correctly (and probably better than the average biscuit-baking
>granny ever could).
>
>As long as it's written down, it's not being "lost".
>
>--Blair

That is assumming that someone reads it - otherwise, it is lost.


jim

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 08:05:15 -0500, ~patches~
> wrote:

>Curly Sue wrote:

>> Eating habits are learned at home. Kids who are not impressed with
>> the importance of health at home are not going to seek it outside the
>> home.
>>
>> One thing about cooking per se, is that it has become a hobby that
>> some people will learn because they like to do it rather than because
>> it's their function in life. Most of the people lamenting the loss of
>> cooking skills are talking about loss of cooking skills of women.
>> Apparently women many women today would rather get an education and
>> have a career than agonize over "dredging." Good for us. In
>> addition, there still are parents who need to work long and hard to
>> keep up and cooking is the least of their worries.
>
>You'd be surprised at how many women have educations, have careers, and
>have kids yet still find the time to cook.

I'm very familiar with what educated women do. In the past women who
disliked cooking would have been stuck at home (or in a menial job)
with the expectation that their function in life was cooking (etc.)
and passing down that knowledge to their daughters. Now, such women
have other options. The well-off women you speak of who do cook, have
careers, buy exotic ingredients, etc. are doing it because they enjoy
cooking rather than because they have to. And they are probably doing
a better job of it than someone who dislikes cooking.

Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!

"~patches~" > wrote in message
...
> wff_ng_7 wrote:
>
>> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote:
>>
>>>wff_ng_7 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I guess I don't look at whats's IN other people's shopping carts, but I
>>>>most certainly do look at what's on the conveyor belt in front of and
>>>>behind my order. I'm not sure if it is self righteousness as much as it
>>>>is just curiosity. ..
>>>>
>>>>I'm an observer of life, and I want to see what's going on around me.
>>>
>>>
>>>You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
>>>at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever
>>>to a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
>>>curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
>>>in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers'
>>>weight and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.
>>
>>
>> Being an observer can be in all kinds of things, and it doesn't have to
>> involve people. It can be observing the natural world around us. Right
>> behind my house there's a tree whose branches reach the balcony of a
>> nearby house. On that balcony, there is a "bottomless" bucket of peanuts.
>> Of course, this tree is "squirrel central". Though I can't garden because
>> the squirrels are forever tearing up my planting beds burying and digging
>> up their peanuts, I find them quite entertaining. Squirrels do pay
>> attention to people and what they are doing. Often I will just stare out
>> my picture window at them, and they will definitely notice me. Sometimes
>> they don't notice and I will wave my arms... they do notice the motion,
>> stop what they are doing, and stare back. I'm sure if anyone saw me,
>> they'd think I was a nut and wonder what I was doing.
>
> Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one Christmas
> I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was not amused
> cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water now so have a
> problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts to the blue
> jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me around when
> I'm outside, bold as anything! DH said no bird feeders as we've had a
> rodent problem and we do have a lot of other wildlife.
>>
>> This past Sunday morning I heard this most interesting hammering noise.
>> I'm sure most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But I recognized
>> it for what it was: the distinctive sound of a woodpecker. I stopped to
>> try and find it, but was unsuccessful. On one prior occassion I did spot
>> one. Quite interesting to find in downtown Washington, DC. If you're not
>> looking, you miss an awful lot of stuff.
>
> Woodpeckers are really neat as are nuthatchers. You want to encourage
> woodpeckers because they eat harmful bugs. Nuthatchers are just cool
> because of the way they walk head first down the trees. I like the gold
> finches too. We have a pair of cardinals that are really pretty. I'm not
> fond of mourning doves since they are a relative of pigeons and are a
> really messy bird. We have a lot of hawks of which I kind of have a love
> hate relationsip with. They are gorgeous birds but bring a whole new
> meaning to natural selection!
>>

We have ONE hawk I see occasionally at our home: a Red-shouldered hawk. We
don't see many at all except around the Blue Ridge mountains going to D.C.,
they sit along-side the road. Here are the birds we do have, love them all.
http://freepages.family.rootsweb.com...Page/birds.htm
Dee Dee

"~patches~" > wrote

> wff_ng_7 wrote:

> Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one Christmas
> I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was not amused
> cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water now so have a
> problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts to the blue
> jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me around when
> I'm outside, bold as anything!

They're too much! I never see them around then I put out
peanuts, the screaming meemies come out of nowhere.

The squirrels have their own feeder when I get around to filling
it. I remember like yesterday, the kid next door ... maybe he
was 10. He stood there with his little 10 year old chin dropped
as far as it could, eyes huge, staring at this squirrel sitting on this
seat in front of a box of nuts, lifting the lid taking a peanut at a time
and eating it.

First time he'd seen it in action. Hilarious.

>> This past Sunday morning I heard this most interesting hammering noise.
>> I'm sure most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But I recognized
>> it for what it was: the distinctive sound of a woodpecker.

I have to chase them from my window, they hammer a pretty good
hole. Never do see what the heck they're looking for.

> a really messy bird. We have a lot of hawks of which I kind of have a
> love hate relationsip with. They are gorgeous birds but bring a whole new
> meaning to natural selection!

I chase them away if I catch them ... was easier when I had
Rascal ... I'd let her out and bark and she'd run around like a
nut barking and it would make the hawks go away ... yes, I know,
they have to eat, too ... but not my birds, and most especially not
my catbirds.

nancy

Sheldon wrote:
>
> The Bubbo wrote:
>>
>> I'm an observer, I watch people. I watch people's shopping habits, I watch
>> people at restaurants, I watch how people drie and how they negotiate the
>> skyways and how they bag my produce at the farmer's market. I pay attention
>> and I notice things. The guy behind me bought 2 half gallons of 2 percent
milk
>> and 1 half gallon of chocolate milk. He paid with cash.
>
> You mean to say you moved through the check-out and then waited around
> to watch the person *behind* you check out and even waited long enough
> to see how they paid... sheesh, you don't have a life... or you simply
> just made this up... for a self-proclaimed observer you're not nearly
> so observant as those reading your post. Anyone reading your post can
> clearly observe that you are lying. WTF do you need to constantly make
> stuff up just so you have something to post... every one of your posts
> I've read is a fabrication... you're very ill.
>
> Sheldon
>

you're right, I should have left before my groceries were done being bagged
up. That's exactly what I should have done, left half a cart's worth of food
on the belt.

The lady bagging my groceries was slow at it, I was waiting. I suppose I could
have just dumped the rest back into the cart sans bags and hightailed it out
of there as fast as possible. Good idea. In fact, that's a great idea.

Also, if I was going to make stuff up it wouldn't be about a guy and his milk
purchase, it would be about moon people and meatloaf and hovering javelinas.
DUH!

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

~patches~ wrote:
> The Bubbo wrote:
>
>> ~patches~ wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What I find odd is how anyone could stand in line, anaylze someone
>>>else's purchases, then feel self righteous because their food choices
>>>were somehow better. I figure it is none of my business what others
>>>buy. I hate standing in line anyway so I have a lot of ebooks on my
>>>PDA. Once in line, I pull out my PDA and amuse myself. The good thing
>>>is because of my shopping habbits this doesn't happen often.
>>
>>
>> I finally got bored with my PDA a couple years ago so i don't really carry
it
>> with me anymore.
>>
>> I'm an observer, I watch people. I watch people's shopping habits, I watch
>> people at restaurants, I watch how people drie and how they negotiate the
>> skyways and how they bag my produce at the farmer's market. I pay attention
>> and I notice things. The guy behind me bought 2 half gallons of 2 percent
milk
>> and 1 half gallon of chocolate milk. He paid with cash.
>
> I'm not a people person outside my family and circle of friends. Quite
> frankly I don't like people all that much when I'm shopping. They
> either get too close to me or do obnoxious things so I tend to totally
> tune them out. The person in line in front of me could be holding up
> the cashier and I likely wouldn't see a thing!

The last neighborhood grocery store was in the burbs and the most annoying
thing was the very slow moving old people (I know, I'm sorry, but I sometimes
get impatient when I know what I want but they can't figure out the difference
between ketchup and cocktail onions). Now I shop at the semi-ghetto grocery
store and the people are WAY more fascinating, a better mix of people and not
just bland suburbia. I love people, I think they're fascinating, hell sheldon
is more fascinating than irritating because he's so weird.

>>
>> The guy behind him was buying chips, soda and his girfriend talked on the
>> phone and grabbed impulse gum. I did nt see how they paid, I was gone by
then.
>>
>> I always check out other carts, what could be more interesting than
watching
>> the eating habits of other people? it's like a lesson in anthropology. I
think
>> that honestly that may have been one of the reasons I stopped using the
PDA,
>> it ended up being an expensive gameboy for me, I mean how often do i need
to
>> whip out my grandmother's address when I'm at the hairdresser? It just
became
>> a green beeping distraction.
>
> My PDA is always in my purse and I do use it daily from anything from
> daily planning, contacts, shopping lists, gift details, appointments,
> and entertainment. Just as my home computers games have almost no role
> on my PDA. It's so much easier carrying around a lot of ebooks than an
> actual book and no one can see what you're reading so you don't get
> those nosey comments that interfer with your train of thought.

okay, I do miss the ebooks
I needed my PDA at my last job, but now I just don't need it so I just don't
really use it.

>>
>> Though I do sometimes miss playing Drug Wars during my layovers.
>>

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

Heather wrote:

> if I was going to make stuff up it wouldn't be about a guy and his
> milk purchase, it would be about moon people and meatloaf and hovering
> javelinas.

Let's hear that meatloaf fiction.

Bob

Bob Terwilliger wrote:
> Heather wrote:
>
>> if I was going to make stuff up it wouldn't be about a guy and his
>> milk purchase, it would be about moon people and meatloaf and hovering
>> javelinas.
>
> Let's hear that meatloaf fiction.
>
> Bob
>
>

With amazing self control she put the fork down on the plate, "what do you
mean 'surprise'? what are you talking about?"
"That's not steak you're eating my most precious darling."
"don't you 'most precious darling' me you weiner patrol! What the hell have
you put on my plate. Don't play me, little man, I've had about all I can take
of your games."
The dog trotted in and they both shot him 'the look', he made fast tracks.
"Okay...okay..chill little princess, it's not a steak so much as a loaf...of
meat...made from ...."
She stood up, trembling, wondering if she's pull his heart out through his
throat or just feed him to the javelinas. "Spit it out! What is it made of??"
"Those...moon people...the ones that showed up the other night. They didn't
leave as unexpectedly as I led you to believe...they grind up so nice"


and later, she learned, so did he.

Sorry, it's lame but the best I could come up with on the fly.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

In article <azGTf.3369$hC.1665@trnddc08>,
"wff_ng_7" > wrote:

> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote:
> > wff_ng_7 wrote:
> >
> >> I guess I don't look at whats's IN other people's shopping carts, but I
> >> most certainly do look at what's on the conveyor belt in front of and
> >> behind my order. I'm not sure if it is self righteousness as much as it
> >> is just curiosity. ..
> >>
> >> I'm an observer of life, and I want to see what's going on around me.
> >
> >
> > You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
> > at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever to
> > a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
> > curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
> > in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers' weight
> > and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.
>
> Being an observer can be in all kinds of things, and it doesn't have to
> involve people. It can be observing the natural world around us. Right
> behind my house there's a tree whose branches reach the balcony of a nearby
> house. On that balcony, there is a "bottomless" bucket of peanuts. Of
> course, this tree is "squirrel central". Though I can't garden because the
> squirrels are forever tearing up my planting beds burying and digging up
> their peanuts, I find them quite entertaining. Squirrels do pay attention to
> people and what they are doing. Often I will just stare out my picture
> window at them, and they will definitely notice me. Sometimes they don't
> notice and I will wave my arms... they do notice the motion, stop what they
> are doing, and stare back. I'm sure if anyone saw me, they'd think I was a
> nut and wonder what I was doing.
>
> This past Sunday morning I heard this most interesting hammering noise. I'm
> sure most people wouldn't give it a second thought. But I recognized it for
> what it was: the distinctive sound of a woodpecker. I stopped to try and
> find it, but was unsuccessful. On one prior occassion I did spot one. Quite
> interesting to find in downtown Washington, DC. If you're not looking, you
> miss an awful lot of stuff.

A layer of 1" or 2" chicken wire laid over the soil will stop them
digging, and plants can grow up thru the holes in the wire...
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

In article >,
The Bubbo > wrote:

> The last neighborhood grocery store was in the burbs and the most annoying
> thing was the very slow moving old people (I know, I'm sorry, but I sometimes
> get impatient when I know what I want but they can't figure out the difference
> between ketchup and cocktail onions). Now I shop at the semi-ghetto grocery
> store and the people are WAY more fascinating, a better mix of people and not
> just bland suburbia. I love people, I think they're fascinating, hell sheldon
> is more fascinating than irritating because he's so weird.

<lol>

One of the more fun places to people watch (besides bars) is the zoo...
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch." -Jack Nicholson

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> "Doug Kanter" > hitched up their panties and
> posted :
>
>> "Joy of Cooking". Now, get ready for the insipid ****s to arrive with
>> comments. Two of them are regulars here.
>
>
> I have the book and have used it many times. I bought it when I was in
> college. I never learned how to cook at home. It's a great book but I have
> not opened it for years. I'll have to dig it out and take a look. IIRC it
> was wonderful for people wanting the basics and learning how to cook.
>
> Michael
>

for some strange reason my mom always thought I couldn't cook. I never
understood that. Being a quiet kid I never said anything about it. When I got
hitched and moved out my MIL got me the Betty Crocker cookbook. 12 years later
that is one of my most used books. It's got all the very basic info I needed
to get started. I still refer to it for cooking times and basic info about
veggies or meat cuts or whatever. I have a million other cookbooks great and
small that I reference, but good old Betty has a place in my heart. One of
these days I should pick up JOC, but I'm really visual and I like pics and I
don't recall that my mom's well worn copy had any. Am I wrong?

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:
> In article >,
> The Bubbo > wrote:
>
>> The last neighborhood grocery store was in the burbs and the most annoying
>> thing was the very slow moving old people (I know, I'm sorry, but I
sometimes
>> get impatient when I know what I want but they can't figure out the
difference
>> between ketchup and cocktail onions). Now I shop at the semi-ghetto grocery
>> store and the people are WAY more fascinating, a better mix of people and
not
>> just bland suburbia. I love people, I think they're fascinating, hell
sheldon
>> is more fascinating than irritating because he's so weird.
>
> <lol>
>
> One of the more fun places to people watch (besides bars) is the zoo...

nice!
also the dog park! All manner of people at the dog park and you all have your
dogs in common, you meet some interesting people. I always likened it to
parents at their kids' school since you mostly end up talking about your dogs
anyway.

I live just a couple blocks from 2 lakes (nokomis and hiawatha for those in
minneapolis) and you see all kinds of people doing their thing there.

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

"~patches~" > wrote:
> Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one Christmas
> I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was not amused
> cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water now so have a
> problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts to the blue
> jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me around when
> I'm outside, bold as anything! DH said no bird feeders as we've had a
> rodent problem and we do have a lot of other wildlife.

We learned our lesson about feeding squirrels many years ago. You can
actually get them to take the peanut out of your hand. They get very
friendly. In fact, way too friendly. Eventually they would sit on the
railing on our front steps waiting for a handout. The last straw with my
mother was when she wanted to go out shopping one day, and there was a
squirrel spread eagled on the screen door. She couldn't get out. No more
feeding the squirrels after that episode!

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "~patches~" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Honest to goodness, I came across a website with some pretty good recipes.
>> All the baked recipes started with *Check the oven for any pot or pans,
>> once cleared, turn oven to...* I know I bookmarked it in one of the
>> browsers so I'll post the link when I find it. Really though, careful
>> directions are better than vague ones.
>
>
> I have a recipe for cardamom cake. I use twice as much cardamom as the
> original recipe called for, so when I share the recipe, I make it clear that
> 1 measure is what the original recipe said, and 2 measures is what I use -
> "start with one and double it if you like the taste and make the cake
> again". Gave it to a friend who made like this decision was a major life
> crisis. We were on the phone for 20 minutes about THIS ONE THING.
> "Well....what should I do???? Do you think I'll like it with 2 measures???"
>
> sigh.....
>
>

well, duh, make it with two! Nothing is harmed by more cardamom!!! NOTHING!!!!

--
..:Heather:.
www.velvet-c.com
Step off, beyotches, I'm the roflpimp!

The Bubbo wrote:
> Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
>> "Doug Kanter" > hitched up their panties
>> and posted :
>>
>>> "Joy of Cooking". Now, get ready for the insipid ****s to arrive
>>> with comments. Two of them are regulars here.
>>
>>
>> I have the book and have used it many times. I bought it when I was
>> in college. I never learned how to cook at home. It's a great book
>> but I have not opened it for years. I'll have to dig it out and
>> take a look. IIRC it was wonderful for people wanting the basics
>> and learning how to cook.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>
> for some strange reason my mom always thought I couldn't cook. I never
> understood that. Being a quiet kid I never said anything about it.
> When I got hitched and moved out my MIL got me the Betty Crocker
> cookbook. 12 years later that is one of my most used books. It's got
> all the very basic info I needed to get started. I still refer to it
> for cooking times and basic info about veggies or meat cuts or
> whatever. I have a million other cookbooks great and small that I
> reference, but good old Betty has a place in my heart. One of these
> days I should pick up JOC, but I'm really visual and I like pics and
> I don't recall that my mom's well worn copy had any. Am I wrong?

My mom's 1951 edition of Betty Crocker was so well used it fell apart and
she threw it away! I found one in very good condition on eBay for $5.

In 1978 I bought a copy of the newer Betty Crocker cookbook for myself; it
was much smaller and much less helpful, if you want to know the truth. The
older one has everything you mention. Charts and diagrams and suggestions
about what goes with what. Everything a new cook could possibly want to
know, it's in there.

Jill

"The Bubbo" > wrote in message
...
> Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
>> "Doug Kanter" > hitched up their panties and
>> posted :
>>
>>> "Joy of Cooking". Now, get ready for the insipid ****s to arrive with
>>> comments. Two of them are regulars here.
>>
>>
>> I have the book and have used it many times. I bought it when I was in
>> college. I never learned how to cook at home. It's a great book but I
>> have
>> not opened it for years. I'll have to dig it out and take a look. IIRC
>> it
>> was wonderful for people wanting the basics and learning how to cook.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>
> for some strange reason my mom always thought I couldn't cook. I never
> understood that. Being a quiet kid I never said anything about it. When I
> got
> hitched and moved out my MIL got me the Betty Crocker cookbook. 12 years
> later
> that is one of my most used books. It's got all the very basic info I
> needed
> to get started. I still refer to it for cooking times and basic info about
> veggies or meat cuts or whatever. I have a million other cookbooks great
> and
> small that I reference, but good old Betty has a place in my heart. One of
> these days I should pick up JOC, but I'm really visual and I like pics and
> I
> don't recall that my mom's well worn copy had any. Am I wrong?

You're right - JOC has a few line drawings, but nothing very detailed. You'd
hate "In Nonna's Kitchen" if you need pictures to cook. But, you'd love the
tastes. Buy it.

"ensenadajim" > wrote in message
...

> I had an interesting conversation with my 84-year-old mother about
> this "dummying down" of cookbooks. From her perspective, it has to do
> with more than a full generation being brought up on fast food,
> microwave and throw-in-the-oven dinners. Far too many young ones have
> not been taught the rudiments of boiling water, let alone any cooking
> that is pointed in the direction of serious cooking.
>
>
> jim
>

Tell your mother she's brilliant. I told my son tonight that if he went off
to college without knowing how to make a dozen basic things without recipes,
I'd smother him with a pillow. :-)

"The Bubbo" > wrote in message
...
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "~patches~" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Honest to goodness, I came across a website with some pretty good
>>> recipes.
>>> All the baked recipes started with *Check the oven for any pot or pans,
>>> once cleared, turn oven to...* I know I bookmarked it in one of the
>>> browsers so I'll post the link when I find it. Really though, careful
>>> directions are better than vague ones.
>>
>>
>> I have a recipe for cardamom cake. I use twice as much cardamom as the
>> original recipe called for, so when I share the recipe, I make it clear
>> that
>> 1 measure is what the original recipe said, and 2 measures is what I
>> use -
>> "start with one and double it if you like the taste and make the cake
>> again". Gave it to a friend who made like this decision was a major life
>> crisis. We were on the phone for 20 minutes about THIS ONE THING.
>> "Well....what should I do???? Do you think I'll like it with 2
>> measures???"
>>
>> sigh.....
>>
>>
>
> well, duh, make it with two! Nothing is harmed by more cardamom!!!
> NOTHING!!!!

Am I the only one here who has the lasagna retard post stuck in his mind? A
few months back, right here in this newsgroup: "Can you make lasagna at
home? How?" I want to find that person and see if it can count to two, and
finds its own toes.

wrote:
>Apparently women many women today would rather get an education and
>have a career than agonize over "dredging." Good for us. In
>addition, there still are parents who need to work long and hard to
>keep up and cooking is the least of their worries.

I know that any partner of mine has to be a good cook, plain and simple.
I love food too much.

Orlando

wrote:
>Lidia: Young people. They're busy working, they're bombarded with ethnic
>cuisines and they try to do it all. They should focus on a single one --
>like Italian. They should just get in there and do it.

Does anyone else think Americans are bombarded with ethnic cuisines? I
know I grew up primarily with Dominican, Puerto Rican, Cuban and Italian
foods, although my family liked foods from other cultures and my mother
often learned to cook foods about which I'd inquired or in which I'd
expressed some interest.

Orlando

wrote:
>You'd be surprised at how many women have educations, have careers, and
>have kids yet still find the time to cook. If anything the cooking
>skills have increased in this segment of the population. Educated
>people in general tend to be more health conscious. Educated people
>with careers tend to have more money so can buy more exotic ingredients
>if they choose without the worry of breaking the bank. There are stats
>on educated vs uneducated that indicate both of theses comments. I'll
>try to find the link.

I doubt that the original article meant that recipes had to be dumbed
down for educated cooks. I mean, if you don't know what "cream
together" or "sear" mean and can use a computer, you'll find out in five
seconds. I think this article was lamenting the lack of skills of less
educated folks with fewer resources to look up cooking terms.

Orlando

wff_ng_7 wrote:

> "~patches~" > wrote:
>
>>Squirrels are funny! I toss out peanuts to the blue jays so one Christmas
>>I got the idea to put out the leftover Christmas nuts. DH was not amused
>>cleaning them out of the downspout We live on the water now so have a
>>problem feeding wildlife although I still toss our peanuts to the blue
>>jays each morning. I have one fat blue jay that follows me around when
>>I'm outside, bold as anything! DH said no bird feeders as we've had a
>>rodent problem and we do have a lot of other wildlife.
>
>
> We learned our lesson about feeding squirrels many years ago. You can
> actually get them to take the peanut out of your hand. They get very
> friendly. In fact, way too friendly. Eventually they would sit on the
> railing on our front steps waiting for a handout. The last straw with my
> mother was when she wanted to go out shopping one day, and there was a
> squirrel spread eagled on the screen door. She couldn't get out. No more
> feeding the squirrels after that episode!
>

That would be a funny sight!

"~patches~" > wrote

> wff_ng_7 wrote:

>> railing on our front steps waiting for a handout. The last straw with my
>> mother was when she wanted to go out shopping one day, and there was a
>> squirrel spread eagled on the screen door. She couldn't get out. No more
>> feeding the squirrels after that episode!

> That would be a funny sight!

I couldn't believe it, I had a squirrel started banging on the
kitchen window over the sink. Cracked me up. It would
run a safe distance away when I came over. Hop from foot
to foot hoping I'd put out peanuts.

nancy

> I learned my lesson with tree rats the first year I lived here. They're
> cute but Gawd. I saw one snatch a sandwich off the neighbors patio table
> and run up a light post. Steven is a softie. He still puts out (I think
> it's called) seed corn cobs for them. I no longer feed them from the
> house. They are thieves
>
> Michael

Yes, they ate thru my plastic garbage cans, destroying them, and eating my
collected walnuts. From then on, they could have them off the ground. This
way, they aerate the earth, but try as they may, they cannot get at the bird
food anymore. We finally outsmarted them. They are like rats to me -- not
cute.
The other day we were driving down the driveway, when all of a sudden one
who had been running away from our car, all of a sudden did a flip-flop
upside down and ran to the driveway and underneath our car, but escaped
death -- ran immediately up a tree and furtively looked at us. Wonder where
the word, squirrely, comes from.
Dee Dee

"Orlando Enrique Fiol" > wrote in message
.. .
> wrote:
>>You'd be surprised at how many women have educations, have careers, and
>>have kids yet still find the time to cook. If anything the cooking
>>skills have increased in this segment of the population. Educated
>>people in general tend to be more health conscious. Educated people
>>with careers tend to have more money so can buy more exotic ingredients
>>if they choose without the worry of breaking the bank. There are stats
>>on educated vs uneducated that indicate both of theses comments. I'll
>>try to find the link.
>
> I doubt that the original article meant that recipes had to be dumbed
> down for educated cooks. I mean, if you don't know what "cream
> together" or "sear" mean and can use a computer, you'll find out in five
> seconds. I think this article was lamenting the lack of skills of less
> educated folks with fewer resources to look up cooking terms.
>
> Orlando

I've found that as long as you don't choose an insanely busy time to ask,
many restaurant chefs will step out of the kitchen to answer a quick
question. I know a couple of professionally trained chefs, and when I've
asked about certain things, it's been hard to get them to shut up. :-) Sort
of like gardeners, fishing addicts, and most other happy obsessions.

"Dee Randall" > wrote:
> Yes, they ate thru my plastic garbage cans, destroying them, and eating my
> collected walnuts.

It's amazing the sense of smell they have, and what persistence they have to
get at what they smell. Around here we just use trash bags, which makes it
relatively easy for them. One day a squirrel smelled an empty peanut butter
jar in my neighbor's trash, got it out, and carried it onto my patio (under
the "squirrel central" tree). I picked the jar up, double wrapped it, and
put it inside my trash bag. So there were now three layers of plastic bag
around that peanut butter jar. But still the squirrels could smell it, and
they dug that jar out of my trash bag! I did find a way to dissuade them...
putting some ammonia on the objects in the trash bag that they might like
(anything nut related, including nut shells). Either they really hate that
smell, or it fouls up their sense of smell so they can't detect the nut
odor.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

"Doug Kanter" > wrote:
> You're right - JOC has a few line drawings, but nothing very detailed.
> You'd hate "In Nonna's Kitchen" if you need pictures to cook. But, you'd
> love the tastes. Buy it.

Be aware that JOC has been around for a long, long time... since the 1930s.
When different people talk about JOC, they can be talking about different
editions of the book. I originally got a 1970s paperback edition that was
given to me by my sister. I really did want to get a hardcover version
because I used it so much. In the 1990s there was a major rewrite to make it
more "current". I purposely went out and bought the 1970s hardcover version
so as not to lose the "obsolete" content I treasured in my 1970s paperback.
The 1990s rewrite was a fairly major change.

Going in the other direction, I did look at a reprint of the original
edition from the 1930s, but didn't buy it. It was interesting more from a
historical standpoint, but compared to later editions was very thin and had
very little in it.

The line drawings in JOC are (were?) great. You can learn all kinds of
things, like how to skin a squirrel! I'm pretty sure this squirrel drawing
was removed from the newer addition.

But if you want to know how to skin a rabbit, the greatest resource I know
for that is the movie "Roger & Me". If you've seen the movie, you'd
immediately know what I'm talking about.

--
( #wff_ng_7# at #verizon# period #net# )

Dee Randall wrote:

>>I learned my lesson with tree rats the first year I lived here. They're
>>cute but Gawd. I saw one snatch a sandwich off the neighbors patio table
>>and run up a light post. Steven is a softie. He still puts out (I think
>>it's called) seed corn cobs for them. I no longer feed them from the
>>house. They are thieves
>>
>>Michael
>
>
> Yes, they ate thru my plastic garbage cans, destroying them, and eating my
> collected walnuts. From then on, they could have them off the ground. This
> way, they aerate the earth, but try as they may, they cannot get at the bird
> food anymore. We finally outsmarted them. They are like rats to me -- not
> cute.

Dee, I have a couple of squirrel proof bird feeders. One has a larger
mesh around an inner core that holds the seeds. The other is a hopper
style with an adjustable rest that causes the hopper to close if a
squirrel or larger bird gets on it. Both are quite effective. DH
doesn't want them put out because of the rodent problem here.

> The other day we were driving down the driveway, when all of a sudden one
> who had been running away from our car, all of a sudden did a flip-flop
> upside down and ran to the driveway and underneath our car, but escaped
> death -- ran immediately up a tree and furtively looked at us. Wonder where
> the word, squirrely, comes from.

Now if that squirrel could talk you were likely being cussed out LOL.
> Dee Dee
>
>
>

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message

>>You bring up an interesting point. If I see someone reading on a bus or
>>at a restaurant, I get curious about the book and will try to manouever to
>>a place where I can see the cover without making it obvious. I get
>>curious about artwork in public places, store displays, ad copy, changes
>>in manners, turns of phrase, all sorts of things but not strangers' weight
>>and groceries. I guess there is a bit of the busybody in me.
>>
>>
>>--Lia
>>
>
>
> Not busybody. Smart and observant. If you ran for president, I'd vote for
> you.


Gee, um, uh, thanks, I think. Considering what I've thought of all
recent presidential candidates (nominees and winners), I'm not sure I'm
complimented:-)


--Lia

"wff_ng_7" > wrote in message
news:5bTTf.7799$vy.4307@trnddc01...
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote:
>> You're right - JOC has a few line drawings, but nothing very detailed.
>> You'd hate "In Nonna's Kitchen" if you need pictures to cook. But, you'd
>> love the tastes. Buy it.
>
> Be aware that JOC has been around for a long, long time... since the
> 1930s. When different people talk about JOC, they can be talking about
> different editions of the book. I originally got a 1970s paperback edition
> that was given to me by my sister. I really did want to get a hardcover
> version because I used it so much. In the 1990s there was a major rewrite
> to make it more "current". I purposely went out and bought the 1970s
> hardcover version so as not to lose the "obsolete" content I treasured in
> my 1970s paperback. The 1990s rewrite was a fairly major change.

Yes, but sections which describe things like different cuts of beef are
equally useful. If only I'd read it before I ruined my first so-called "pot
roast"...

"~patches~" > wrote

> Dee, I have a couple of squirrel proof bird feeders. One has a larger
> mesh around an inner core that holds the seeds. The other is a hopper
> style with an adjustable rest that causes the hopper to close if a
> squirrel or larger bird gets on it.

I had a squirrel manage to grab the hanger with its hind feet
and hang down and get the seed without putting any weight
on the rest. Little brat.

My best luck has been with the diversionary feeder, plus
just tossing out peanuts for them, not too many though, just
enough they disappear in a little while.

Dee Dee said:

>> The other day we were driving down the driveway, when all of a sudden one
>> who had been running away from our car, all of a sudden did a flip-flop
>> upside down and ran to the driveway and underneath our car, but escaped
>> death -- ran immediately up a tree and furtively looked at us. Wonder
>> where the word, squirrely, comes from.

Ever see that Geico commercial? The squirrels cause an accident
and they're all giggling and high fiving each other, good one!

nancy