I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.

I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The cream
was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might have
been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).

I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and fried
them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream (without
calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel so
far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!

I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated the
5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a little
brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was very
thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2 the
amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent with
salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!

Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really tasted
like carbonara.

I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.

Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with oil
and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.

It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as they
say, "Good to go."
Dee Dee

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>
> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>
> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a
> fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
> than the cooking!
>
> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of
> milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still
> was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>
> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
> tasted like carbonara.
>
> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>
> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>
> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
> they say, "Good to go."
> Dee Dee
>

Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
recipe names!!


--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Peter Aitken wrote:

> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
> recipe names!!
>

Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
a veloute.

--
Reg

Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about a
2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil picks
up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit more
and whisk.
There you have it, your bechamel.
Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and nothing
made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live Dungeness Crab
here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock, and make crab
newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being any.
Kent

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>
> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>
> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a
> fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
> than the cooking!
>
> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of
> milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still
> was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>
> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
> tasted like carbonara.
>
> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>
> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>
> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
> they say, "Good to go."
> Dee Dee
>
>
>
>

"Reg" > wrote in message
. com...
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>> one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
>> French cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
>> Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
>> traditional recipe names!!
>>
>
> Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
> a veloute.
>
> --
> Reg
>

You may argue with Julia.


--
Peter Aitken

In article > ,
"Peter Aitken" > wrote:

> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
snip!
>
> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is one
> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical French
> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call it
> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
> recipe names!!

I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
sauce."

D.M.

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Reg" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>Peter Aitken wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>>>one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
>>>French cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
>>>Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
>>>traditional recipe names!!
>>>
>>
>>Milk yes, definitely not white stock. That would be
>>a veloute.
>>
>>--
>>Reg
>>
>
>
> You may argue with Julia.

She would agree with me here, I'm afraid.

Béchamel is not made with "milk or white stock". Either
it contains all milk or it contains milk with white stock
added. If it's made with only stock it's a veloute.

--
Reg

Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil and
1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
Thanks
Dee Dee


"Kent" > wrote in message
. ..
> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit more
> and whisk.
> There you have it, your bechamel.
> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock, and
> make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being any.
> Kent
>
> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>
>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>>
>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
>> than the cooking!
>>
>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>>
>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
>> tasted like carbonara.
>>
>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
>> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>>
>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>>
>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
>> they say, "Good to go."
>> Dee Dee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>
>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
> snip!
>>
>> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>> one
>> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
>> French
>> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call
>> it
>> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
>> recipe names!!
>
> I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
> English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
> was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
> sauce."
>
> D.M.

Dear Friends, I said that I had never made an acceptable Bechamel -- so I
was off to some unknown Alton Brown adventure. I believe this explanation
is enough of a deference to the spirit of any Bechamel sauce rooted in
classical French cooking. I will indeed call it Dee Dee Sauce, if that
makes you feel better. No problem here. I realize it is such a basic in
"Classical French Cooking" that it is the first thing our home ec class in
West Virginia in 1948 'tried' to teach us, possibly to civilize us wild and
wonderful kids. This particular year I believe they showed us a film of
Madam Curie and brought in a symphony. Ah, I have digressed ---


I like this Italian 'origin' version - maybe because I'm partial to 'Italian
cuisine' - is that an oxymoron? I think not!
http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/SauceHistory.htm

There are four theories on the origin of Béchamel Sauce:
a.. The Italian version of who created this sauce is that it was created
in the 14th century and was introduced by the Italian chefs of Catherine de
Medici (1519-1589), the Italian-born Queen of France. In 1533, as part of an
Italian-French dynastic alliance, Catherine was married to Henri, Duke of
Orleans (the future King Henri II of France. It is because of the Italian
cooks and pastry makers who followed her to France that the French came to
know the taste of Italian cooking that they introduced to the French court.
Antonin Carème(1784-1833), celebrated chef and author, wrote in 1822: "The
cooks of the second half of the 1700's came to know the taste of Italian
cooking that Catherine de'Medici introduced to the French court."

The recipe for Cream Sauce in Le Guide combines cream with Béchamel Sauce --
so you basically made a cream sauce. As for lumps, all of these types of
sauce call for straining through fine mesh.

So how many rolls of wallpaper did you hang, Dee?
Lefty
--
Life is for learning

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>
> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
cream
> was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might have
> been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>
> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
fried
> them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
> bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream
(without
> calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
> milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel so
> far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!
>
> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
the
> 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
> sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
> Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a
little
> brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
> into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was
very
> thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2
the
> amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent with
> salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>
> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
tasted
> like carbonara.
>
> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>
> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
oil
> and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>
> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
they
> say, "Good to go."
> Dee Dee
>
>
>
>

Sorry, Dee for my confusion. The usual butter/flour ratio for roux is 1 to
1. Olive oil makes a healthier, easier, and less fatty roux. You can use a 2
to 3 ratio rather than a 1 to 1 ratio. For a roux containing 3 TB flour you
only need 2 TB olive oil rather than 3 TB of butter. I find roux much
friendlier using olive oil since it has no aqueous, or water fraction, and
you can store it a long time in ther frig. I make relatively large batches
of roux, and store in the frig. for a long time, using it when I want to
make a bechamel or a veloute sauce on the run. It makes a lot of sauce
making much easier.
Kent

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil
> and 1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
> Thanks
> Dee Dee
>
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
>> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
>> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
>> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit
>> more and whisk.
>> There you have it, your bechamel.
>> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
>> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
>> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock,
>> and make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being
>> any.
>> Kent
>>
>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>>
>>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
>>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
>>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
>>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>>>
>>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
>>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
>>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
>>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
>>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
>>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
>>> than the cooking!
>>>
>>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
>>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
>>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
>>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
>>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
>>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
>>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
>>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
>>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>>>
>>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
>>> tasted like carbonara.
>>>
>>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
>>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and
>>> the rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>>>
>>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
>>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>>>
>>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
>>> they say, "Good to go."
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Dee, I only answered half of your question.
The usual ratio of roux to liquid(cream, milk, or stock, or a combination)
is enough roux to give 2TB flour to one cup of stock,cream or milk. This
gives you a fairly thick sauce. I usually use enough roux to contain 1.5 TB
flour per cup of liquid. When you hit the geezer phase of life you like your
sauces a bit thinner, and less fatty. This is why olive oil, rather than
butter works so well, and it's easier.
Kent

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil
> and 1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
> Thanks
> Dee Dee
>
>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
>> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
>> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
>> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit
>> more and whisk.
>> There you have it, your bechamel.
>> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
>> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
>> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock,
>> and make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being
>> any.
>> Kent
>>
>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>>
>>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
>>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
>>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
>>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>>>
>>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
>>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
>>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
>>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
>>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
>>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
>>> than the cooking!
>>>
>>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
>>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
>>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
>>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
>>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
>>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
>>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
>>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
>>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>>>
>>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
>>> tasted like carbonara.
>>>
>>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
>>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and
>>> the rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>>>
>>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
>>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>>>
>>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
>>> they say, "Good to go."
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Kent wrote:

> Dee, I only answered half of your question.
> The usual ratio of roux to liquid(cream, milk, or stock, or a combination)
> is enough roux to give 2TB flour to one cup of stock,cream or milk. This
> gives you a fairly thick sauce. I usually use enough roux to contain 1.5 TB
> flour per cup of liquid. When you hit the geezer phase of life you like your
> sauces a bit thinner, and less fatty. This is why olive oil, rather than
> butter works so well, and it's easier.
> Kent

Good point about the fat content. I use olive as well sometimes,
depending on the dish.

When I want minimal fat, I use a pure slurry, which you can
do with flour if you mix it properly. You can leave the fat
out altogether that way.

--
Reg

Over the years, plenty of wallpaper, I've made
I refuse to strain lumps anymore -- you know, like: I don't do windows.
I'm through with that!
:-)
Dee Dee



"Lefty" > wrote in message
...
> The recipe for Cream Sauce in Le Guide combines cream with Béchamel
> Sauce --
> so you basically made a cream sauce. As for lumps, all of these types of
> sauce call for straining through fine mesh.
>
> So how many rolls of wallpaper did you hang, Dee?
> Lefty
> --
> Life is for learning
>
> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>
>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
> cream
>> was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms might
>> have
>> been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>>
>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
> fried
>> them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and Mario's
>> bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of cream
> (without
>> calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe). Both called for
>> milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made a fit bechamel
>> so
>> far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps than the cooking!
>>
>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
> the
>> 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and then
>> sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2 minutes,
>> Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to turn a
> little
>> brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured the hot cream
>> into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I whisked. It was
> very
>> thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead of milk. I added 1/2
> the
>> amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it still was pretty pungent
>> with
>> salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>>
>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
> tasted
>> like carbonara.
>>
>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and the
>> rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>>
>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
> oil
>> and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>>
>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
> they
>> say, "Good to go."
>> Dee Dee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

On 2006-03-21, Dee Randall > wrote:

> I refuse to strain lumps anymore --

I've never had lumps in my roux/sauce. I learned two tricks early on
that guarantee *no* lumps. First, get yourself a professional quality
French whisk, the kind you find at a restaurant supply store. Second,
always make sure the liquid you add to your roux, be it stock, milk,
etc, is at least warm, if not hot. No cold liquids. (finally, a good
use for your microwave ...besides warming coffee)

http://www.sallys-place.com/food/che...ner/whisks.htm

nb

"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
...
> In article > ,
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>
>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
> snip!
>>
>> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>> one
>> of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in classical
>> French
>> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock. Call
>> it
>> Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of traditional
>> recipe names!!
>
> I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
> English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the bechamel
> was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick veloute
> sauce."
>
> D.M.

That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even the
"classic" recipes are not set in stone.


--
Peter Aitken

On Tue 21 Mar 2006 06:28:22a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter
Aitken?

> "Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article > ,
>> "Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>> > acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>> snip!
>>>
>>> Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>>> one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in
>>> classical French
>>> cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
>>> Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
>>> traditional recipe names!!
>>
>> I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
>> English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the
>> bechamel was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick
>> veloute sauce."
>>
>> D.M.
>
> That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even
> the "classic" recipes are not set in stone.

Fettucini Alfredo anyone?

--
Wayne Boatwright o¿o
____________________

BIOYA

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 18:34:59 -0500, "Dee Randall"
> wrote:

>I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
<snip>
As another poster said, it might have been very good, but not a
Béchamel.
Now, how come you have problems with lumps in Béchamel? I find it an
easy sauce to make: Melt a big blob of butter with some salt, pepper
and a tsp flour. You should obtain a thick paste. Still on moderate
heat, start adding milk *very* slowly (at the beginning - actually,
the process is very much like making mayonnaise - you add the liquid
extremely slowly at the beginning, then you can start adding faster),
the milk should mix evenly with the paste. When you have added a cup
of milk, you can start adding it faster. See, no lumps! Then you let
it cook 20 minutes on low heat, stirring from time to time. Done!

Nathalie in Switzerland

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
> On Tue 21 Mar 2006 06:28:22a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter
> Aitken?
>
>
>>"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>In article > ,
>>>"Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>>>>acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>>
>>>snip!
>>>
>>>>Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>>>>one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in
>>>>classical French
>>>>cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
>>>>Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
>>>>traditional recipe names!!
>>>
>>>I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
>>>English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the
>>>bechamel was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick
>>>veloute sauce."
>>>
>>>D.M.
>>
>>That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even
>>the "classic" recipes are not set in stone.
>
> Fettucini Alfredo anyone?

That's not really a sauce, you know...

I bet that's never come up before.

No, seriously.

Pastorio

On 2006-03-21, Bob (this one) > wrote:

> That's not really a sauce, you know...


Yeah, it is. ....seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sauces

nb

On Tue 21 Mar 2006 09:55:54a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Bob (this
one)?

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>> On Tue 21 Mar 2006 06:28:22a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Peter
>> Aitken?
>>
>>
>>>"Donald Martinich" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>In article > ,
>>>>"Peter Aitken" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>>>>>acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>>>
>>>>snip!
>>>>
>>>>>Sounds delicious but PLEASE do not call it Bechamel sauce. Bechamel is
>>>>>one of those few recipes that has a definite history, rooted in
>>>>>classical French
>>>>>cooking, and it does not use cream but rather milk or white stock.
>>>>>Call it Dee Dee Sauce if you like - but let's preserve the meaning of
>>>>>traditional recipe names!!
>>>>
>>>>I'm all for that, Peter! And in that spirit, I will quote from my 1961
>>>>English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique: "Originally, the
>>>>bechamel was made by adding a liberal amount of fresh cream to a thick
>>>>veloute sauce."
>>>>
>>>>D.M.
>>>
>>>That's quite interesting because Julia has it different. I guess even
>>>the "classic" recipes are not set in stone.
>>
>> Fettucini Alfredo anyone?
>
> That's not really a sauce, you know...

Did I say "sauce"? <g>

> I bet that's never come up before.

LOL!

> No, seriously.

"seriously"

> Pastorio
>



--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Dee Randall wrote:

> There are four theories on the origin of Béchamel Sauce:
> a.. The Italian version of who created this sauce is that it was created
> in the 14th century and was introduced by the Italian chefs of Catherine de
> Medici (1519-1589), the Italian-born Queen of France. In 1533, as part of an
> Italian-French dynastic alliance, Catherine was married to Henri, Duke of
> Orleans (the future King Henri II of France. It is because of the Italian
> cooks and pastry makers who followed her to France that the French came to
> know the taste of Italian cooking that they introduced to the French court.
> Antonin Carème(1784-1833), celebrated chef and author, wrote in 1822: "The
> cooks of the second half of the 1700's came to know the taste of Italian
> cooking that Catherine de'Medici introduced to the French court."

And you're gonna make us guess the other 3? Does the winner get a
prize? <g>

notbob wrote:
> On 2006-03-21, Bob (this one) > wrote:
>
>>That's not really a sauce, you know...
>
> Yeah, it is. ....seriously.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauce
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sauces

See if they have an entry for "humorlessly obtuse." And "Whoosh."

Pastorio

Dee Randall wrote:
> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really tasted
> like carbonara.

Carbonara?

Do you mean Alfredo? (and by "mean" I mean in the American colloquial
sense, because in Italy they kinda don't know what Alfredo is, they
call pasta in white sauce something like pasta in white sauce...though
I don't imagine this will actually forestall the flamewar about to
erupt...)

--Blair

Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> Dee Randall wrote:
>
>>Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>>bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really tasted
>>like carbonara.
>
> Carbonara?
>
> Do you mean Alfredo? (and by "mean" I mean in the American colloquial
> sense, because in Italy they kinda don't know what Alfredo is, they
> call pasta in white sauce something like pasta in white sauce...though
> I don't imagine this will actually forestall the flamewar about to
> erupt...)
>
> --Blair

Dammit, Blair...

You have the brains of a yadda, yadda and wouldn't know a yadda, yadda
and your use of English is worse than an illiterate yadda, yadda...

Just in case nobody else jumps in. I mean we have a system to uphold.

No need to thank me.

Pastorio

"Dee Randall" > wrote in message
...
> Kent, when you say, 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Do you mean 2/3 cup of oil
> and 1/3 cup of flour and how much milk for those amounts?
> Thanks
> Dee Dee
>
Hi Dee Dee,
It's the reverse of what you said. For 1 of cup flour you use 2/3 cup of
oil. In the microwave you have to put in a bit more oil than that, as
needed. The usual ratio for making a roux with butter is 1 part butter to 1
part flour. For olive oil it is less, particularly on the stove. As per your
example when I want to make a very brown roux I will do it on the stove top
with 1 cup of flour and 2/3 cup oil and store the unused portion in the
frig. It will last a long time, as long as the oil can be left in the frig,
and much longer than a butter based roux. I do this routinely. It is much
more heart healthy than the old fashion roux, and it gives you a glistening,
much nicer sauce.
Kent
Kent

>
> "Kent" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Try making your roux in the microwave using olive oil and flour, in about
>> a 2/3 oil to 1 part flour. Microwave this on a 3 or so setting. Any oil
>> picks up MW radiation far more than other ingredients.
>> Then add heated milk and whisk. Heat more and whisk. Then heat a bit
>> more and whisk.
>> There you have it, your bechamel.
>> Recently doing this I made the best crab newberg I've ever had, and
>> nothing made it to the stove top. I couldn't believe it. We get live
>> Dungeness Crab here, steam it, eat what you can, then make crab stock,
>> and make crab newberg from the leftover, if you can imagine there being
>> any.
>> Kent
>>
>> "Dee Randall" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I've never made a bechamel that I would consider exceptional or even
>>> acceptable (for me). Today I tried a different tactic.
>>>
>>> I was going to have a different meal altogether but when I looked in the
>>> frig there was 3 cups of cream and some brown crimini mushrooms. The
>>> cream was 8 days out of date, but still acceptable, and the mushrooms
>>> might have been if-y when I bought them (in a cellophane pack).
>>>
>>> I cleaned up the mushrooms to where they didn't smell too amoniac and
>>> fried them. While they were frying I got out and compared Giada's and
>>> Mario's bechamel sauce and found that Mario's recipe fit my 3 cups of
>>> cream (without calculating the difference of Giada's 4 cups' recipe).
>>> Both called for milk - not cream. I didn't care because I've never made
>>> a fit bechamel so far -- always lumpy and spending more time with lumps
>>> than the cooking!
>>>
>>> I heated the cream in the microwave slowly to about 160º while I heated
>>> the 5 T butter (both recipes called for the same amount of butter) and
>>> then sprinkled 1/3 cup flour into it. Giada' recipe said to cook 2
>>> minutes, Mario's said to cook 6-7 minutes. I cooked until starting to
>>> turn a little brownish, as Mario said, maybe about 4 minutes. DH poured
>>> the hot cream into the butter/flour mixture 1 cup at a time while I
>>> whisked. It was very thick; I would assume mainly due to cream instead
>>> of milk. I added 1/2 the amount of salt and nutmeg called for, and it
>>> still was pretty pungent with salt & nutmeg. NO LUMPS!
>>>
>>> Then I added the finished mushrooms and the spaghetti to the big pan of
>>> bechamel and used tongs to separate them as they cooked. This really
>>> tasted like carbonara.
>>>
>>> I saved the rest of the bechamel (in the freezer) for another day.
>>> Necessity was the mother of invention as I rescued the mushrooms and
>>> the rest of the cream that I had bought to make chocolate truffles.
>>>
>>> Served with 'organic' fresh carrots, salt & pepper; butter lettuce with
>>> oil and vinegar and a glass of wine, French for DH; Italian for me.
>>>
>>> It's now snack time and a movie -- thanks TJ's for salza and chips - as
>>> they say, "Good to go."
>>> Dee Dee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>