"hob" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "hob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5
> pound"
>> > bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the price
>> > PER
>> > BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).
>> > Since I almost always buy by the "unit", e.g., can, bag, box, etc.
>> > rather
>> > than by the weight, I don't really pay close attention to the "unit's"
>> > weight
>> >
>> > I realize there has been a lot of "downsizing" of the quantity
>> > without
>> > any commensurate lowering of price (a lot of candy bars put out in new
>> > displays in the past few weeks, e.g., ), but when did the "old
> standards"
>> > like sugar make that change?
>> >
>> > (FWIW 2 - It also looks like the price per pound of sugar is up almost
>> > 100%
>> > over last year.)
>>
>>
>> It hasn't been downsized. They make 3 sizes currently:
>>
>> 4-lb. bag
>> 4-lb. New Plastic Canister
>> 5-lb. bag
>>
>> The unit price *has* gone up some, but that's due to freight more than
>> any
>> other factor.
>>
>
> No, you are wrong. The price of sugar has jumped significantly.
>
> from the USDA
>
> refined sugar price November 2005 - 13.10
> refined sugar price April 2006 -21.35


I'm sorry, but that does not reflect the actual price being paid by the
supermarket chains and wholesalers. Do you have any theories as to why this
might be?

"hob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Steve Wertz" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 20:32:20 GMT, Peter A wrote:
>> >
>> >> In article >,
>> >> ost says...
>> >>> You can blame the HFCS lobby for that. Not only Kraft, but many
>> >>> candy makers have moved to Canada (LifeSavers, ie), putting
>> >>> Americans out of work all to fatten the politicians pockets.
>> >>> Somebody gimme a gun... I *HATE* politicians.
>> >>
>> >> Don't be ridiculous. If a company moves it's to fatten their own
>> >> pockets. If you want to fume at anyone for plants moving out of the US
>> >> then at least figure out who is really to blame - greedy corporations.
>> >
>> > WHat astounding business logic. I want my business to just break
>> > even, too. Screw the shareholders.
>> >
>> > Fact is, they woulnd't have had to move if the price of sugar
>> > wasn't drastically lower in Canada because of the HFCS lobbies.
>> >
>> > -sw
>>
>> It's contagious. Look at the original post in the thread. The OP's a
>> finalist in the stupid conclusion olympics.
>
> Yeah, unlike you who are in the finals for moronus maximus assus.
>
> Check the price of refined sugar in the past six months, smart ass?
>
> http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/sugar/Data/Table02.xls


I don't need to check government sites. I'm in the grocery business. I punch
a few keys, and I see that my company has sold 73 truckloads of Domino & C&H
sugar since March of 2005. Using 5 lb bags as an example, the price has
risen about 10% in that time period. The discrepancy between the govenment's
numbers and reality can be explained in a way that's similar to the way you
can explain the problem with oil at the moment.

About an hour ago, I asked you how old you were. This would be a good time
to tell me.

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "hob" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "hob" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > (FWIW 2 - It also looks like the price per pound of sugar is up
almost
> >> > 100%
> >> > over last year.)
> >>
> >>
> >> The wholesale price has done no such thing. What do you mean by "looks
> >> like"??? What were you looking at when you came up with your 100%
> >> figure?
> >>
> >
> > I paid $.99 for 5 lb bag of sugar on sale late last fall and the 4 lb
> > bags
> > are $1.69 on sale a few days ago.
> > ( First, 5 lb just fills my canister and I never buy 10 lb bags, and
> > second, I made candy for a group around Christmas that took five pounds
of
> > sugar and I needed to submit the costs.)
> >
> > that's .20 a lb then vs .42 a lb now.
> >
> > Ok, so it's up 110%. Close enough.
> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> First, a question: How old are you?

Old enough to have been a CEO twice and been in 'Nam, kid.

>
> Now, some data. Right now, unless a store negotiates a hot deal with
Domino
> or C&H, they're paying about $2.00 for a 5 lb bag of sugar. This price has
> been the same, give or take a quarter, for the past year.

Yes, some data - real data, not some BS facts pulled out of some fading
memory bank.

Sugar was $2.32 wholesale last September (5 lbs, per wholesaler's book.)
On sale loss leader $.99.

Today's wholesale price for a 4 lb bag - $ 2.96. On sale loss leader, $
1.69.
( I just looked in "the book" for April, you know kid, the one the
wholesaler gives the retailer, to get you an accurate price.)

Try some real facts on for size, kid. It'll give you a real perspective.

The price of refined sugar has jumped over 60% in the past six months.

-----from the USDA

refined sugar price November 2005 - 13.10
refined sugar price April 2006 - 21.35

in the last six months, price of refined is up 63%

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/sugar/Data/Table02.xls

http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/sugar/Data/Table03.xls



>
> Another question: Why do you think your store occasionally sells these
$2.00
> bags of sugar for $0.99?
>
>

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
...
> "hob" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "hob" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5
> > pound"
> >> > bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the
price
> >> > PER
> >> > BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).
> >> > Since I almost always buy by the "unit", e.g., can, bag, box, etc.
> >> > rather
> >> > than by the weight, I don't really pay close attention to the
"unit's"
> >> > weight
> >> >
> >> > I realize there has been a lot of "downsizing" of the quantity
> >> > without
> >> > any commensurate lowering of price (a lot of candy bars put out in
new
> >> > displays in the past few weeks, e.g., ), but when did the "old
> > standards"
> >> > like sugar make that change?
> >> >
> >> > (FWIW 2 - It also looks like the price per pound of sugar is up
almost
> >> > 100%
> >> > over last year.)
> >>
> >>
> >> It hasn't been downsized. They make 3 sizes currently:
> >>
> >> 4-lb. bag
> >> 4-lb. New Plastic Canister
> >> 5-lb. bag
> >>
> >> The unit price *has* gone up some, but that's due to freight more than
> >> any
> >> other factor.
> >>
> >
> > No, you are wrong. The price of sugar has jumped significantly.
> >
> > from the USDA
> >
> > refined sugar price November 2005 - 13.10
> > refined sugar price April 2006 -21.35
>
>
> I'm sorry, but that does not reflect the actual price being paid by the
> supermarket chains and wholesalers. Do you have any theories as to why
this
> might be?
>
>
check your April 2006 wholesaler's price book and compare it to last
September's - I checked ours.

"hob" > wrote in message
...

>> Now, some data. Right now, unless a store negotiates a hot deal with
> Domino
>> or C&H, they're paying about $2.00 for a 5 lb bag of sugar. This price
>> has
>> been the same, give or take a quarter, for the past year.
>
> Yes, some data - real data, not some BS facts pulled out of some fading
> memory bank.
>
> Sugar was $2.32 wholesale last September (5 lbs, per wholesaler's book.)
> On sale loss leader $.99.


The actual number is $1.78 as of two weeks ago. No change anticipated, other
than BETTER deals negotiated by chains and wholesalers. Where EXACTLY did
your $2.32 come from?

But wait...this doesn't matter. The biggest change since a year ago was
perhaps a quarter, which does not explain the 100% you mentioned in your
original message. And, loss leader pricing explains nothing at all.

"Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
news
> "hob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> Now, some data. Right now, unless a store negotiates a hot deal with
> > Domino
> >> or C&H, they're paying about $2.00 for a 5 lb bag of sugar. This price
> >> has
> >> been the same, give or take a quarter, for the past year.
> >
> > Yes, some data - real data, not some BS facts pulled out of some fading
> > memory bank.
> >
> > Sugar was $2.32 wholesale last September (5 lbs, per wholesaler's
book.)
> > On sale loss leader $.99.
>
>
> The actual number is $1.78 as of two weeks ago. No change anticipated,
other
> than BETTER deals negotiated by chains and wholesalers. Where EXACTLY did
> your $2.32 come from?

our local wholesale price book. 5 lbs C&H.

>
> But wait...this doesn't matter. The biggest change since a year ago was
> perhaps a quarter, which does not explain the 100% you mentioned in your
> original message. And, loss leader pricing explains nothing at all.
>
>

Nancy Young wrote:
> I just went to do a little food shopping, happened to see the
> sugar ... all 5 lb bags except for the no name brand, that was 4.
> Never heard of a 4lb bag of sugar before today. Not paying
> attention.
>
> nancy
>
>


I checked today also. Lots of 5 lb. bags of sugar, a few 4, and many,
many 10 lb bags. The 10 lb. looked smaller than they used to. Weird?

gloria p

Puester wrote:

> I checked today also. Lots of 5 lb. bags of sugar, a few 4, and many,
> many 10 lb bags. The 10 lb. looked smaller than they used to. Weird?

Small changes in packaging can make things look a lot different. People
with a decent education, a decent capacity to understand mathematics and
some practical experience realize that a little extra diameter can make up
for a lot of height.

I like simple glasses. Our tumblers are highball glass, round and with
straight sides, tall and thin. We also have some shorter wider glasses. A
few week ago I had to demonstrate to my wife that they held the same
amount. She was determined that the tall glass held more. I filled up a
tall skinny one and poured the contents into the short, fat one. Both
were full to the brim.

"hob" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "hob" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > "Doug Kanter" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> "hob" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5
>> > pound"
>> >> > bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the
> price
>> >> > PER
>> >> > BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).
>> >> > Since I almost always buy by the "unit", e.g., can, bag, box, etc.
>> >> > rather
>> >> > than by the weight, I don't really pay close attention to the
> "unit's"
>> >> > weight
>> >> >
>> >> > I realize there has been a lot of "downsizing" of the quantity
>> >> > without
>> >> > any commensurate lowering of price (a lot of candy bars put out in
> new
>> >> > displays in the past few weeks, e.g., ), but when did the "old
>> > standards"
>> >> > like sugar make that change?
>> >> >
>> >> > (FWIW 2 - It also looks like the price per pound of sugar is up
> almost
>> >> > 100%
>> >> > over last year.)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It hasn't been downsized. They make 3 sizes currently:
>> >>
>> >> 4-lb. bag
>> >> 4-lb. New Plastic Canister
>> >> 5-lb. bag
>> >>
>> >> The unit price *has* gone up some, but that's due to freight more than
>> >> any
>> >> other factor.
>> >>
>> >
>> > No, you are wrong. The price of sugar has jumped significantly.
>> >
>> > from the USDA
>> >
>> > refined sugar price November 2005 - 13.10
>> > refined sugar price April 2006 -21.35
>>
>>
>> I'm sorry, but that does not reflect the actual price being paid by the
>> supermarket chains and wholesalers. Do you have any theories as to why
> this
>> might be?
>>
>>
> check your April 2006 wholesaler's price book and compare it to last
> September's - I checked ours.
>
>

You started this discussion, and you said this: "(FWIW 2 - It also looks
like the price per pound of sugar is up almost 100% over last year.)"

Are you saying that you have a wholesaler's price book which reflects almost
a 100% increase in price? If so, who's your wholesaler?

Steve Wertz wrote:
>
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 14:33:25 -0700, Mark Thorson wrote:
>
> > You can't blame the HFCS industry for creating
> > the sugar racket.
>
> ADM has admitted it pays supports politicians to make the price
> of sugar artifically high. Dwayne-whats-his-face even brags
> about it.

That's maintenance. ADM didn't create the sugar racket.
ADM did create the L-lysine racket, but that's a totally
different story.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=963023
http://www.uoregon.edu/~bruceb/lysine_l.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Ar...846395,00.html

Doug Kanter wrote:
> "Nancy2" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> >
> > hob wrote:
> >> I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5
> >> pound"
> >> bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the price
> >> PER
> >> BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).
> >> Since I almost always buy by the "unit", e.g., can, bag, box, etc.
> >> rather
> >> than by the weight, I don't really pay close attention to the "unit's"
> >> weight
> >>
> >> I realize there has been a lot of "downsizing" of the quantity without
> >> any commensurate lowering of price (a lot of candy bars put out in new
> >> displays in the past few weeks, e.g., ), but when did the "old standards"
> >> like sugar make that change?
> >
> > I hate to tell you this, but the "5 lb." bag of sugar has been 4 lbs.
> > for quite a while. Same phenom can be observed in coffee weights.
> >
> > N.
> >
>
> No it hasn't, assuming you're talking about Domino. Your store has chosen to
> carry the 4 lb bag. Which store do you shop at?

I'm not going to argue with you - why are you defending the sugar
industry? Yes, the store I shop at (Hy-Vee) has C & H sugar in 4 lb.
bags and have had it for a l-o-n-g time.

N.

"Nancy2" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Doug Kanter wrote:
>> "Nancy2" > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>> >
>> > hob wrote:
>> >> I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5
>> >> pound"
>> >> bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the
>> >> price
>> >> PER
>> >> BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).
>> >> Since I almost always buy by the "unit", e.g., can, bag, box, etc.
>> >> rather
>> >> than by the weight, I don't really pay close attention to the "unit's"
>> >> weight
>> >>
>> >> I realize there has been a lot of "downsizing" of the quantity
>> >> without
>> >> any commensurate lowering of price (a lot of candy bars put out in new
>> >> displays in the past few weeks, e.g., ), but when did the "old
>> >> standards"
>> >> like sugar make that change?
>> >
>> > I hate to tell you this, but the "5 lb." bag of sugar has been 4 lbs.
>> > for quite a while. Same phenom can be observed in coffee weights.
>> >
>> > N.
>> >
>>
>> No it hasn't, assuming you're talking about Domino. Your store has chosen
>> to
>> carry the 4 lb bag. Which store do you shop at?
>
> I'm not going to argue with you - why are you defending the sugar
> industry? Yes, the store I shop at (Hy-Vee) has C & H sugar in 4 lb.
> bags and have had it for a l-o-n-g time.
>
> N.
>

Nancy Nancy Nancy....this isn't an argument. I'm not defending the sugar
companies because there IS NOTHING TO DEFEND AGAINST. Most of the people in
this discussion want to believe that sugar companies have shrunk the 5 lb
bag to 4 lbs. This is not the case. Here's the link to the C&H web site.
They make multiple sizes:
http://www.chsugar.com/Consumer/white_granulated.html
Hy-Vee has chosen to carry the 4 lb bag, not the 5 lb. If you want to know
why, you can call them and I'm sure they'll give you a perfectly good
explantion.

Domino's also got a range of sizes:
http://www.dominosugar.com/products/granulated.asp

Nothing has been shrunken. Now, if you want to point a finger at a company
that really did shrink a package, follow this link to some old discussions
about Breyers ice cream. You'll have to reassemble the link in a text
editor.
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q...00 6&safe=off

The major complaints involved two things:
1) Some supermarkets kept using signs that said "1/2 gallon". Clearly, that
was not Breyers fault.
2) Breyers didn't call customers one at a time on the phone and let them
know the package was shrinking.

The finger should be pointed at the supermarkets.

The Bubbo wrote:

>
> ha! I noticed the same thing yesterday too. Really irritating. I also noticed
> a while back that the Breyers half gallon is now 1.75 quarts.

All the "half gallons" are now "not". That's been going on for
several years.

Kate

--
Kate Connally
“If I were as old as I feel, I’d be dead already.”
Goldfish: “The wholesome snack that smiles back,
Until you bite their heads off.”
What if the hokey pokey really *is* what it's all about?

After reading this I looked yesterday (and bought a bag) at my usual
store. Both the store brand and Dominos sugars were 5 lb.

I'll check it out in other stores as I go, but the 5 lb bag was still
5 lb as of yesterday!


On Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:46:27 -0500, "hob" >
wrote:

>I was walking through the store yesterday, and I noticed that the "5 pound"
>bags of sugar (of all producers) were now all 4 pounds.. (and the price PER
>BAG was also up from last year, fwiw).

"Curly Sue" > wrote in message
...
> After reading this I looked yesterday (and bought a bag) at my usual
> store. Both the store brand and Dominos sugars were 5 lb.
>
> I'll check it out in other stores as I go, but the 5 lb bag was still
> 5 lb as of yesterday!

The 5 lb and 4 lb bags both exist. It's up to the store which one to carry.

Kate Connally wrote:

> The Bubbo wrote:
>
> >
> > ha! I noticed the same thing yesterday too. Really irritating. I
> > also noticed a while back that the Breyers half gallon is now 1.75
> > quarts.
>
> All the "half gallons" are now "not". That's been going on for
> several years.

It happened around January of 2004 (I know because I bitched about it
here).



Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

I talked to a brewer last year. He said the cost of sugar is so high
because of the import taxes. He has sugar shipped to Canada and processed
into candy. The candy is imported (not taxed as high). He then grinds it
back into sugar, and costs LESS than using pure sugar. Go figure.

Red wrote:
> I talked to a brewer last year. He said the cost of sugar is so high
> because of the import taxes. He has sugar shipped to Canada and processed
> into candy. The candy is imported (not taxed as high). He then grinds it
> back into sugar, and costs LESS than using pure sugar. Go figure.

no import tax on sugar. But there is a quota on the amount allowed to
be imported, so the importers make out as do the beet and cane farmers.
But the taxpayer doesn't get any of the excess money and and we pay
considerably more than the world market price for sugar. Oh, and the
High Fructose Corn Syrup guys make out too.

That is why I think Life Savers are now made in Canada.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 15:29:08 -0600, Del Cecchi
> wrote:

>Red wrote:
>> I talked to a brewer last year. He said the cost of sugar is so
high
>> because of the import taxes. He has sugar shipped to Canada and
processed
>> into candy. The candy is imported (not taxed as high). He then
grinds it
>> back into sugar, and costs LESS than using pure sugar. Go figure.
>
>no import tax on sugar. But there is a quota on the amount allowed
to
>be imported, so the importers make out as do the beet and cane
farmers.
> But the taxpayer doesn't get any of the excess money and and we pay
>considerably more than the world market price for sugar. Oh, and the
>High Fructose Corn Syrup guys make out too.
>
>That is why I think Life Savers are now made in Canada.

I was raised in Hawaii by sugar people. The cost of labor and land
eventually pushed 90% of Hawaii out of sugar because it could be made
so much more cheaply elsewhere. Tax payers in the US artificially
supported our local sugar industry for years.

I went to COSTCO last week, picked up a 25# bag of C&H cane sugar and
it cost $12.89. Sounds quite cheap to me.

aloha,
beans
--smithfarms.com
farmers of pure kona
roast beans to kona to email

wrote:

> I went to COSTCO last week, picked up a 25# bag of C&H cane sugar and
> it cost $12.89. Sounds quite cheap to me.
>
> aloha,
> beans

I got 2 5# bags (yes, I checked the weight) for $1.50 the other day.
It was a sale, and probably over, since everyone now is starting their
sale week on Friday round here

maxine in ri

"maxine in ri" > wrote

> It was a sale, and probably over, since everyone now is starting their
> sale week on Friday round here

Do you like that? I was happy when they moved the sale start
to Saturdays, I think maybe Friday is even better.

nancy

Nancy Young wrote:
> "maxine in ri" > wrote
>
> > It was a sale, and probably over, since everyone now is starting their
> > sale week on Friday round here
>
> Do you like that? I was happy when they moved the sale start
> to Saturdays, I think maybe Friday is even better.
>
> nancy

Sort of. I usually shop during the week, which means I miss any of the
no-raincheck items. OTOH, if I'm shopping on Thursday, I know what to
hold off on until Friday when something might be cheaper.

On the third hand, I rarely go into the markets that advertize, since
most of what I need I can get at the PriceRite (Shoprite's warehouse
store).

On the 4th hand, when the big stores have a sale on something we do use
a lot of, I will wander around and see if there's anything else we can
use.

Kali--er maxine in ri