Yeehaw, I am going to spend 5 days in Krakow. Exciting because I expect to
be a very beautiful and interesting city. I'll visit Auschwitz, too. That
won't be fun, but it will be educational and impressive.

Of course I'll have to eat. So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is some
sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter. Any
other ideas?

Jke wrote:
> Yeehaw, I am going to spend 5 days in Krakow. Exciting because I expect to
> be a very beautiful and interesting city. I'll visit Auschwitz, too. That
> won't be fun, but it will be educational and impressive.
>
> Of course I'll have to eat. So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
> thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is some
> sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter. Any
> other ideas?
>
>

The soup is made from soured rye and is called zurek.

Heres a link with accurate descriptions of some dishes you will find:

http://www.pl-info.net/en/culture/food.shtml

and this glossary:

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ood-terms.html

And if you are anywhere near Greenpoint Brooklyn and you want to
"practice" I can recommend a great mon and pop place that serves very
authentic food.

George wrote:
> Jke wrote:
> > Yeehaw, I am going to spend 5 days in Krakow. Exciting because I expect to
> > be a very beautiful and interesting city. I'll visit Auschwitz, too. That
> > won't be fun, but it will be educational and impressive.
> >
> > Of course I'll have to eat. So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
> > thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is some
> > sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter. Any
> > other ideas?
> >
> >
>
> The soup is made from soured rye and is called zurek.
>
> Heres a link with accurate descriptions of some dishes you will find:
>
> http://www.pl-info.net/en/culture/food.shtml
>
> and this glossary:
>
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ood-terms.html
>
> And if you are anywhere near Greenpoint Brooklyn and you want to
> "practice" I can recommend a great mon and pop place that serves very
> authentic food.

Yep, real kielbasa... and if ever out east Lung Guyland go to Polish
Town in Riverhead.

http://www.polishtownusa.com

Sheldon

Jke wrote:
> [snip] So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
> thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is some
> sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter. Any
> other ideas?

Polish sausage: Kielbasa. The regular northern European stuff --
stuffed cabbage, pickled beets, pickled herring. Rye breads. Hearty
stuff, lots of meat. One of my favorite vodkas has a Polish name,
Monopolowa, but I think it's actually made in Germany. -aem

"aem" > schreef in bericht
oups.com...
>
> Jke wrote:
>> [snip] So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
>> thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is
>> some
>> sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter.
>> Any
>> other ideas?
>
> Polish sausage: Kielbasa. The regular northern European stuff --
> stuffed cabbage, pickled beets, pickled herring. Rye breads. Hearty
> stuff, lots of meat. One of my favorite vodkas has a Polish name,
> Monopolowa, but I think it's actually made in Germany. -aem

I can get pickled beets here, and the herrings and bread, but not usually
stuffed cabbage (only Turkish versions). But the sausage will be new to me.

Polish food sounds like winter food! It'll be summer when I'm there. I am
determined to have sauerkraut, though.

>>
>> The soup is made from soured rye and is called zurek.
>>

So interesting. I hope I can find it. I have this feeling traditional foods
like that might be hard to find. But I'll look hard.


>> Heres a link with accurate descriptions of some dishes you will find:
>>
>> http://www.pl-info.net/en/culture/food.shtml
>>
>> and this glossary:
>>
>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ood-terms.html
>>
>> And if you are anywhere near Greenpoint Brooklyn and you want to
>> "practice" I can recommend a great mon and pop place that serves very
>> authentic food.
>

Somhow I don't think I'll make it across the ocean anytime soon, but you
never know

> Yep, real kielbasa... and if ever out east Lung Guyland go to Polish
> Town in Riverhead.
>
> http://www.polishtownusa.com
>
> Sheldon
>

"George" > schreef in bericht
...
> Jke wrote:
>> Yeehaw, I am going to spend 5 days in Krakow. Exciting because I expect
>> to be a very beautiful and interesting city. I'll visit Auschwitz, too.
>> That won't be fun, but it will be educational and impressive.
>>
>> Of course I'll have to eat. So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I
>> am thinking perogi, sauerkraut with all kinds of meat, and then there is
>> some sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough
>> starter. Any other ideas?
>
> The soup is made from soured rye and is called zurek.
>
> Heres a link with accurate descriptions of some dishes you will find:
>
> http://www.pl-info.net/en/culture/food.shtml
>
> and this glossary:
>
> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb....ood-terms.html
>
> And if you are anywhere near Greenpoint Brooklyn and you want to
> "practice" I can recommend a great mon and pop place that serves very
> authentic food.

I'd love to get some practice, but I doubt that I'll visit the USA before
going to Poland in 2 weeks

>
> Polish food sounds like winter food! It'll be summer when I'm there. I am
> determined to have sauerkraut, though.

Properly grilled, topped with kraut, kielbasa is definitely summer food.
Pop it in a long hard roll and you have portable food. Try washing it down
with a local beer and you will have lunch on foot. You will need to try
kabanozs as well, a form of what we American's refer to by it's market name
of 'Slim Jim', another sausage type food.
-ginny

"Virginia Tadrzynski" > schreef in bericht
...
>
>
>>
>> Polish food sounds like winter food! It'll be summer when I'm there. I am
>> determined to have sauerkraut, though.
>
> Properly grilled, topped with kraut, kielbasa is definitely summer food.

That still soudsn like winter to me, but it sounds tasty nonetheless

> Pop it in a long hard roll and you have portable food.

Mmmmm.

Try washing it down
> with a local beer and you will have lunch on foot. You will need to try
> kabanozs as well, a form of what we American's refer to by it's market
> name
> of 'Slim Jim', another sausage type food.
> -ginny

I will look out for those. Thank you for the suggestins!

Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
>>Polish food sounds like winter food! It'll be summer when I'm there. I am
>>determined to have sauerkraut, though.
>
>
> Properly grilled, topped with kraut, kielbasa is definitely summer food.
> Pop it in a long hard roll and you have portable food. Try washing it down
> with a local beer and you will have lunch on foot. You will need to try
> kabanozs as well, a form of what we American's refer to by it's market name
> of 'Slim Jim', another sausage type food.
> -ginny
>
>
>

I would have to agree. Grilled kielbasi on a hard roll with a smear of
horseradish mustard is a classic summer treat. And at least he will be
eating the real thing.

I often thought there should be a requirement that those insipid, horrid
industrial "kielbasi like" things made be Hillshure and Hatfield should
be prohibited from using the word "kielbasi" on the label much in the
same way they can't use cheese on space cheese products.

Thankfully there are 2 mom and pop Polish markets in my area that make
the real thing.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 08:26:09 -0400, George wrote:

> Virginia Tadrzynski wrote:
> >>Polish food sounds like winter food! It'll be summer when I'm there. I am
> >>determined to have sauerkraut, though.
> >
> >
> > Properly grilled, topped with kraut, kielbasa is definitely summer food.
> > Pop it in a long hard roll and you have portable food. Try washing it down
> > with a local beer and you will have lunch on foot. You will need to try
> > kabanozs as well, a form of what we American's refer to by it's market name
> > of 'Slim Jim', another sausage type food.
> > -ginny
> >
> >
> >
>
> I would have to agree. Grilled kielbasi on a hard roll with a smear of
> horseradish mustard is a classic summer treat. And at least he will be
> eating the real thing.
>
> I often thought there should be a requirement that those insipid, horrid
> industrial "kielbasi like" things made be Hillshure and Hatfield should
> be prohibited from using the word "kielbasi" on the label much in the
> same way they can't use cheese on space cheese products.
>
> Thankfully there are 2 mom and pop Polish markets in my area that make
> the real thing.

I wish I knew where find the real thing. I can only take Hillshire
Farms in small doses and can't imagine plopping one into a roll to eat
all at once. Blech.
--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.

sf wrote:

>> Thankfully there are 2 mom and pop Polish markets in my area that make
>> the real thing.
>
>
> I wish I knew where find the real thing. I can only take Hillshire
> Farms in small doses and can't imagine plopping one into a roll to eat
> all at once. Blech.

The two places in my area don't ship.

Don't know where you are at but I found this place in Philly last year
that may ship.

Its definitely not a "superwally" product: "Our kielbasa contains no
by-products, artificial color, fillers, or added water, unlike the other
brands presently being sold in the marketplace."

http://www.kielbasyboys.com/


I haven't been there but my friend said that Eagle Provisions in
Brooklyn has the real thing.

Google found this:

Eagle Provisions
5th Avenue/17th Street
The signs above the store almost say it all: “Epicurean delights from
around the world”, “Manufactures of the world’s finest kielbasa and
Polish provisions” and “500 varieties of beer.” What you get only a hint
of is that Eagle Provisions has one of the best delis and butcher shops
in Brooklyn. Packs of veal sausage, whole legs of lamb, smoked beef
tongue, combo packs of ground beef, veal and pork (oh, the meat balls
you could make), slabs of smoked bacon.. And that’s just in the case.
Head over to the deli and breathe in the rich smell of cured and smoked
meats. Huge kielbasas, ribs and sausages hang from the ceiling, just
daring you to take them home. I also spied smoked loin of pork, Polish
style meatloaf, Bilinkski ham, and of course liverwurst, head cheese,
and fresh blood sausage. They also make fresh pierogis and a smorgasbord
of salads. So grab a Zywiec beer, a container of fresh-made sauerkraut,
few hand packed hot dogs and fire-up the grill.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 12:50:35 -0400, George wrote:

> Don't know where you are at

San Francisco, not a big Polish community here. I think there is a
Polish Deli way out near the beach on Geary. I need to take a closer
look the next time I'm in that area.

> but I found this place in Philly last year that may ship.
>
> Its definitely not a "superwally" product: "Our kielbasa contains no
> by-products, artificial color, fillers, or added water, unlike the other
> brands presently being sold in the marketplace."
>
> http://www.kielbasyboys.com/


Thanks, I was thinking WOOHOO the prices are right! Then I saw
"Prices as of 01 December 2003". <sigh>


--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.

sf wrote:
> On Sun, 21 May 2006 12:50:35 -0400, George wrote:
>
>
>> Don't know where you are at
>
>
> San Francisco, not a big Polish community here. I think there is a
> Polish Deli way out near the beach on Geary. I need to take a closer
> look the next time I'm in that area.
>
>
>> but I found this place in Philly last year that may ship.
>>
>> Its definitely not a "superwally" product: "Our kielbasa contains no
>> by-products, artificial color, fillers, or added water, unlike the other
>> brands presently being sold in the marketplace."
>>
>> http://www.kielbasyboys.com/
>
>
>
> Thanks, I was thinking WOOHOO the prices are right! Then I saw
> "Prices as of 01 December 2003". <sigh>
>
>

Actually their six month ago prices were only slightly higher.

On Sun, 21 May 2006 13:39:47 -0400, George wrote:

> sf wrote:
> >>
> >> http://www.kielbasyboys.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, I was thinking WOOHOO the prices are right! Then I saw
> > "Prices as of 01 December 2003". <sigh>
> >
> >
>
> Actually their six month ago prices were only slightly higher.

Thanks for the info. I'll take a closer look now.

sf
hoping I won't need to take out a loan to pay for the freight charge
--

Ham and eggs.
A day's work for a chicken, a lifetime commitment for a pig.

>>
>
> I would have to agree. Grilled kielbasi on a hard roll with a smear of
> horseradish mustard is a classic summer treat. And at least he will be
> eating the real thing.

But, but... it's *sausage*. Sausage always says winter to me. Not to say
that I couldn't eat it in summer.
And i love mustart and horseradish. So it's always good to have a reason to
eat those,

>
> I often thought there should be a requirement that those insipid, horrid
> industrial "kielbasi like" things made be Hillshure and Hatfield should be
> prohibited from using the word "kielbasi" on the label much in the same
> way they can't use cheese on space cheese products.
>
> Thankfully there are 2 mom and pop Polish markets in my area that make the
> real thing.

Lucky you

Jke wrote:
> But, but... it's *sausage*. Sausage always says winter to me. Not to say
> that I couldn't eat it in summer.
> And i love mustart and horseradish. So it's always good to have a reason to
> eat those,

If you will be in Krakow, then the best place to try saussages will be
the place near Hala Targowa. Everybody knows it, because this is the
place that opens late in the evening, usually around 9pm. They arrive
every day with their van and grill the sausages in the open air so you
can easily spot them because of the fire. This is a very local thing -
not many visitors know about it. I'm from Krakow, so I know
I also recomend that you try 'chlodnik litewski'. This is the cold soup
(available only in spring/early summer) made from spring beetroot, sour
cream, cucumber, and some other stuff, depending on who's making.
If you are looking for a dish with cabbage, you can try 'golabki'. This
is the baked cabbage leaves stuffed with rice and meat. This can come
with tomato or mushroom sauce. I belive the thing that you refer to as
'sauerkraut with all kinds of meat' will be 'bigos'
There are many restaurants in Krakow so I'm sure you will find
something interesting. But if you would like to try the Polish dishes,
you can visit Polakowski restaurant at ul. Sw. Tomasza. They have a
very simple and very Polish kitchen - you can try 'golabki' there -
they are very good. Also, this is a self-service place and is very
cheap.
I can also recomend Cherubino restaurant at the same street. They have
a grill oven and make delicious grilled stuff - meat, potatos,
mushrooms, etc. If you are looking for something more fancy, you can
try Krew i Roza at ul. Grodzka, Pod Aniolami (same street) or Chlopskie
Jadlo (at ul. Sw. Agnieszki).
I definitely recomend having a beer at the summer gardens as we call
them. These are the cafes in the open air surrounding the Main Market
Square. You can try the beer Zywiec - from the town south from Krakow
and its better to order the bottle then draft.

I hope that you will enjoy your stay in Krakow

--
erfi

Jke > wrote:

> Of course I'll have to eat. So: what are good things to eat in Poland? I am
> thinking perogi,

Yes, and there are many kinds of pierogi, with various fillings.

> sauerkraut with all kinds of meat,

That would be bigos.

> and then there is some
> sort of sour soup that I think is made sort of like sourdough starter.

That would be bialy barszcz (white borscht), also called zurek. It is
made with kwas, in this case a fermented ryemeal juice.

> Any
> other ideas?

Try other soups, such as barszcz (czerwony), the red variety, of which
there are several further versions. Also, if you can find it, czarnina,
goose or duck soup made with blood of said fowl. Consider also
chlodnik, cold clear beetroot soup with various other components - very
refreshing. Also, flaki, literally tripes (plural), but also a mildly
spicy soup with tripe, which can be very good. Krupnik is a beef-barley
soup that can be very good. (Krupnik is also a variety of sweet vodka).

Also try zrazy, the Polish version of Rouladen/involtini/paupiettes.

For dessert, try kisiel, a Polish version of the Russian kisel, a simple
jelly- or fool-like concoction, made of fruit juice, sugar and potato
starch.

Also, by all means try Polish sausages. In order to do that, please
ignore all the unqualified comments made about kielbasa upthread.
"Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
and dried, spicy and bland, etc. So, do visit a good butcher shop, not
a supermarket - get one recommended by a local if possible - and buy a
sample each of sausages that appeal to you. Eat them with some local
breads.

Victor

Victor Sack wrote on 22 May 2006 in rec.food.cooking

> Also, by all means try Polish sausages. In order to do that, please
> ignore all the unqualified comments made about kielbasa upthread.
> "Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
> imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
> and dried, spicy and bland, etc. So, do visit a good butcher shop, not
> a supermarket - get one recommended by a local if possible - and buy a
> sample each of sausages that appeal to you. Eat them with some local
> breads.
>
> Victor
>

Not that you ever miss much Mr V but various grinds too, such as course and
fine etc.

--
-Alan

Victor Sack wrote:

> That would be bialy barszcz (white borscht), also called zurek. It is
> made with kwas, in this case a fermented ryemeal juice.

Bialy barszcz is not the same thing as zurek, although you may find
places in Poland where they use these names interchangeably.
The thing these two soups have in common is addition of fermented
wholemeal rye flour. It is not called kwas, at least not in Krakow.
This can make a basis for other soups, e.g. one kind of potato soup.

[...]
> goose or duck soup made with blood of said fowl. Consider also
> chlodnik, cold clear beetroot soup with various other components - very

Chlodnik is a general name for cold soup. The one you refer to is
chlodnik litewski - I described it in the earlier post.

[...]
> Also, by all means try Polish sausages. In order to do that, please
> ignore all the unqualified comments made about kielbasa upthread.
> "Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
> imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
> and dried, spicy and bland, etc. So, do visit a good butcher shop, not
> a supermarket - get one recommended by a local if possible - and buy a
> sample each of sausages that appeal to you. Eat them with some local
> breads.

It's all true, apart from one thing - I would not recommend eating
white sausage (biala kielbasa), because it is raw. Could also be
steamed, but nevertheless it should be baked, cooked or grilled prior
to eating. I think you should also pay attention to kielbasa skin. It
could be natural (edible) or plastic/paper (not edible). Very famous
kielbasa sucha krakowska is also worth trying - it is dried sausage,
not very fatty.

--
erfi

Victor Sack wrote:

>
> Also, by all means try Polish sausages. In order to do that, please
> ignore all the unqualified comments made about kielbasa upthread.
> "Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
> imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
> and dried, spicy and bland, etc. So, do visit a good butcher shop, not
> a supermarket - get one recommended by a local if possible - and buy a
> sample each of sausages that appeal to you. Eat them with some local
> breads.
>
> Victor

Could you elaborate on the "unqualified comments"?

erfi > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > That would be bialy barszcz (white borscht), also called zurek. It is
> > made with kwas, in this case a fermented ryemeal juice.
>
> Bialy barszcz is not the same thing as zurek, although you may find
> places in Poland where they use these names interchangeably.

That was how it was described to me by the native Poles (from the
Malopolska region, IIRC) here, and also by Monika Adamczyk, who used to
post to rfc and who I think is from Warsaw, but they could have just
tried to make it more understandable to the bloody furriner....

> The thing these two soups have in common is addition of fermented
> wholemeal rye flour. It is not called kwas, at least not in Krakow.
> This can make a basis for other soups, e.g. one kind of potato soup.

Thanks for the explanation! could you describe the fermentation process
(no need to get too technical) and the resulting product? What is its
name in Polish? TIA

> [...]
> > goose or duck soup made with blood of said fowl. Consider also
> > chlodnik, cold clear beetroot soup with various other components - very
>
> Chlodnik is a general name for cold soup. The one you refer to is
> chlodnik litewski - I described it in the earlier post.

Lithuanian-style? Does that mean that the origin of this version is not
really Polish as Lithuanians and Byelorussians seem to believe? Or is
it just a name?

Also, could you tell me more of other chlodnik soups in Poland? Are
they made with cucumbers and sour milk/cream? Are there any made with
sorrel?

> Very famous
> kielbasa sucha krakowska is also worth trying - it is dried sausage,
> not very fatty.

Yes, real, well-made krakowska is a treat. Hard to find an authentic
example here, but the local-made Krakauer is widely available and just
as widely varying in quality. I wish there were more Polish-produced
sausages, such as czosnkowa (garlic... ah!), zwyczajna, zywiecka,
swojska, wiejska, etc... available here...

Victor

Mr Libido Incognito > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote on 22 May 2006 in rec.food.cooking
>
> > "Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
> > imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
> > and dried, spicy and bland, etc.
>
> Not that you ever miss much Mr V but various grinds too, such as course and
> fine etc.

Yeah! And then there is the form, the colour, and the smell, too...

Victor

George > wrote:

> Victor Sack wrote:
>
> > Also, by all means try Polish sausages. In order to do that, please
> > ignore all the unqualified comments made about kielbasa upthread.
> > "Kielbasa" means (generic) sausage in Polish and, as you can well
> > imagine, there are various and sundry kinds, smoked and unsmoked, fresh
> > and dried, spicy and bland, etc. So, do visit a good butcher shop, not
> > a supermarket - get one recommended by a local if possible - and buy a
> > sample each of sausages that appeal to you. Eat them with some local
> > breads.
>
> Could you elaborate on the "unqualified comments"?

Read the thread and replace "kielbasa" with "sausage" in your mind; you
will then find those comments easily enough. Referring to kielbasa as
if it were a particular type of sausage and calling for it to be cooked
in a particular way is unqualified.

Victor

"erfi" > schreef in bericht
oups.com...
> Jke wrote:
>> But, but... it's *sausage*. Sausage always says winter to me. Not to say
>> that I couldn't eat it in summer.
>> And i love mustart and horseradish. So it's always good to have a reason
>> to
>> eat those,
>
> If you will be in Krakow, then the best place to try saussages will be
> the place near Hala Targowa. Everybody knows it, because this is the
> place that opens late in the evening, usually around 9pm. They arrive
> every day with their van and grill the sausages in the open air so you
> can easily spot them because of the fire. This is a very local thing -
> not many visitors know about it. I'm from Krakow, so I know
> I also recomend that you try 'chlodnik litewski'. This is the cold soup
> (available only in spring/early summer) made from spring beetroot, sour
> cream, cucumber, and some other stuff, depending on who's making.
> If you are looking for a dish with cabbage, you can try 'golabki'. This
> is the baked cabbage leaves stuffed with rice and meat. This can come
> with tomato or mushroom sauce. I belive the thing that you refer to as
> 'sauerkraut with all kinds of meat' will be 'bigos'
> There are many restaurants in Krakow so I'm sure you will find
> something interesting. But if you would like to try the Polish dishes,
> you can visit Polakowski restaurant at ul. Sw. Tomasza. They have a
> very simple and very Polish kitchen - you can try 'golabki' there -
> they are very good. Also, this is a self-service place and is very
> cheap.
> I can also recomend Cherubino restaurant at the same street. They have
> a grill oven and make delicious grilled stuff - meat, potatos,
> mushrooms, etc. If you are looking for something more fancy, you can
> try Krew i Roza at ul. Grodzka, Pod Aniolami (same street) or Chlopskie
> Jadlo (at ul. Sw. Agnieszki).
> I definitely recomend having a beer at the summer gardens as we call
> them. These are the cafes in the open air surrounding the Main Market
> Square. You can try the beer Zywiec - from the town south from Krakow
> and its better to order the bottle then draft.
>
> I hope that you will enjoy your stay in Krakow
>
> --
> erfi
>

I can't tell how much i aprreciate the detailed information. It will give me
plenty of opportunity to look around parts of town I might not have had
reason to go to otherwise. I love getting to parts where I don't what to
expect, i.e. parts of cities that you don't visit because of a famous museum
or church that you ahve already read thigns about etc.
And I can't tell you what surprise it is to actually talk to someone from
Cracow online. Such a small world.

I'll print this out to take with me.

I am very sure I'll enjoy my stay.

Thank you so much!

Victor Sack wrote:
[...]
> That was how it was described to me by the native Poles (from the
> Malopolska region, IIRC) here, and also by Monika Adamczyk, who used to
> post to rfc and who I think is from Warsaw, but they could have just
> tried to make it more understandable to the bloody furriner....

I am a native Pole from Krakow, my name is Malgorzata However, since
Monika is from Warsaw, that may explain the difference. Some recipes
and names can vary depending on the region of Poland.

> > The thing these two soups have in common is addition of fermented
> > wholemeal rye flour. It is not called kwas, at least not in Krakow.
> > This can make a basis for other soups, e.g. one kind of potato soup.
>
> Thanks for the explanation! could you describe the fermentation process
> (no need to get too technical) and the resulting product? What is its
> name in Polish? TIA

Well, the process is relatively easy. You just put whole meal rye flour
(2-3 tablespoons) in the bottle or jug, fill it with water (approx.
0.5l) and wait till it gets sour. It should be placed in the room
temperature, because the warmer it is the quicker it ferments. The
resulting product is the whitish liquid. During the fermentation, most
probably it will develop mould on the top, but you shouldn't worry
about it - that is normal. When the fermentation will be over (after
about a week) remove it and strain the liquid to remove the flour. The
liquid is added at the end of cooking, because it should not be boiled
(can be warmed hot though). I never done it myself because it is easily
available and cheap, but my grandmother used to do it. I was thinking
about the name and I think it can be called differently depending on
the part of Poland. We (at my home) call it kiszony bialy barszcz or
bialy barszcz, the same as soup, so it might be confusing. I've never
heard it beeing refered to as kwas, although it is sour indeed (kwas
means acid).

> > [...]
> > > goose or duck soup made with blood of said fowl. Consider also
> > > chlodnik, cold clear beetroot soup with various other components - very
> >
> > Chlodnik is a general name for cold soup. The one you refer to is
> > chlodnik litewski - I described it in the earlier post.
>
> Lithuanian-style? Does that mean that the origin of this version is not
> really Polish as Lithuanians and Byelorussians seem to believe? Or is
> it just a name?

I think it the name comes from times when Lithuania was part of Poland.
Many dishes in Krakow region (Galicja) have territorially either
eastern (Ukrainian or Lithuanian) or western (Viennese) origins, but it
doesn't make them not Polish, since that Poles lived there. So, as you
can see, it can be quite complicated

> Also, could you tell me more of other chlodnik soups in Poland? Are
> they made with cucumbers and sour milk/cream? Are there any made with
> sorrel?

Yes, definitely. With sorrel you can make either regular (warm) soup or
the cold one.
And sour cream with cucumber (sour and fresh) is what I add to chlodnik
litewski (among other ingredients). I remember my grand mother making a
cold soup from cherries. There is a great book of old Polish recipes
but it is in Polish so I don't know if this could be of use for you.
The title is 365 dinners (356 obiadow) by Lucyna Cwierciakiewiczowa. I
usually use it whenever I want to find the original, proper recipe.

> > Very famous
> > kielbasa sucha krakowska is also worth trying - it is dried sausage,
> > not very fatty.
>
> Yes, real, well-made krakowska is a treat. Hard to find an authentic
> example here, but the local-made Krakauer is widely available and just
> as widely varying in quality. I wish there were more Polish-produced
> sausages, such as czosnkowa (garlic... ah!), zwyczajna, zywiecka,
> swojska, wiejska, etc... available here...

I see you are a connoisseur I like podwawelska and slaska (with
juniper flavour).

--
erfi

Jke wrote:
[...]
> I can't tell how much i aprreciate the detailed information. It will give me
> plenty of opportunity to look around parts of town I might not have had
> reason to go to otherwise. I love getting to parts where I don't what to
> expect, i.e. parts of cities that you don't visit because of a famous museum
> or church that you ahve already read thigns about etc.
> And I can't tell you what surprise it is to actually talk to someone from
> Cracow online. Such a small world.

Isn't it? I'm glad I could help
BTW, Hala Targowa is the market in the open air at ul. Grzegorzecka.

--
erfi

"erfi" > schreef in bericht
oups.com...
> Jke wrote:
> [...]
>> I can't tell how much i aprreciate the detailed information. It will give
>> me
>> plenty of opportunity to look around parts of town I might not have had
>> reason to go to otherwise. I love getting to parts where I don't what to
>> expect, i.e. parts of cities that you don't visit because of a famous
>> museum
>> or church that you ahve already read thigns about etc.
>> And I can't tell you what surprise it is to actually talk to someone from
>> Cracow online. Such a small world.
>
> Isn't it? I'm glad I could help
> BTW, Hala Targowa is the market in the open air at ul. Grzegorzecka.
>

I love markets. I'll go there!

> --
> erfi
>

erfi > wrote:

> Well, the process is relatively easy. You just put whole meal rye flour
> (2-3 tablespoons) in the bottle or jug, fill it with water (approx.
> 0.5l) and wait till it gets sour. It should be placed in the room
> temperature, because the warmer it is the quicker it ferments. The
> resulting product is the whitish liquid. During the fermentation, most
> probably it will develop mould on the top, but you shouldn't worry
> about it - that is normal. When the fermentation will be over (after
> about a week) remove it and strain the liquid to remove the flour. The
> liquid is added at the end of cooking, because it should not be boiled
> (can be warmed hot though). I never done it myself because it is easily
> available and cheap, but my grandmother used to do it. I was thinking
> about the name and I think it can be called differently depending on
> the part of Poland. We (at my home) call it kiszony bialy barszcz or
> bialy barszcz, the same as soup, so it might be confusing. I've never
> heard it beeing refered to as kwas, although it is sour indeed (kwas
> means acid).

Yes, indeed, the very same process is used to make some types of kwas,
so the terminology may indeed be regional. It is interesting that you
call it kiszony bialy barszcz, as in Romania this kind of kwas is called
bors, it seems.

> There is a great book of old Polish recipes
> but it is in Polish so I don't know if this could be of use for you.
> The title is 365 dinners (356 obiadow) by Lucyna Cwierciakiewiczowa. I
> usually use it whenever I want to find the original, proper recipe.

I might try to find the book. I don't read Polish, but may well be able
to make some sense of it with a dictionary, as I do read Russian.

> I see you are a connoisseur I like podwawelska and slaska (with
> juniper flavour).

I love sausages! Here in Germany, I'm in the Wurst paradise and still I
find myself craving "foreign" varieties. :-)

Victor