I don't think my reply got sent, so I'm starting all over with my reply.

I believe Phred wrote -- forgive me Phred, if I am mistaken:

>> Right. It's a wank to con the gullible into paying 50 to 150 times
>> the price of a perfectly reasonable substitute?
>
> I didn't undesrtand well. If you mean that "non tradizionale" can be a
> perfectly reasonable substitute for "tradizionale", well... try
> tradizionale once and you'll stick with it for a long time
> First: it is damn concentrated, where you'd use a tablespoons of "balsamic
> vinegar" you just use a couple of drops of "tradizionale baslamic
> vinegar".
> Second: also if you use tablespoons of "non tradizionale", you'll never
> get the flavours you get with some drops of tradizionale.
> It happened to me, also: I always thougth "why spend 30 bucks for a vial
> when I can pay 5 bucks for a bottle?" then I tried the tradizionale and
> have settled with it. I use it often but in really small quantities, and I
> think I'm not spending that much over plain balsamic vinegar. I gave up
> with plain BV and just use only normal red wine vinegar and tradizionale
> BV.
> --
> Vilco
> Think pink, drink rose'

I bought a lower priced balsamic vinegar (BV) at Costco for several years.
Then they started selling another bottle which is their brand "Kirkland
Balsamic Vinegar of Modena" "Private Reserve"
On the back of the bottle, it says, "... Produced in the rustic Italian
region of Modena, where Balsamic Vinegar originated, our vinegar is created
using a centuries-old recipe and is aged in wooden casks for up to 15
years."

In Costco's February 2006 magazine, they say:
"Costco's Kirkland Signature Balsamic Vinegar of Modena is made the
deliverate, Old World way. At harvest, local grapes, mostly seet Trebbiano,
are gentlypressed to yield their juice. This unfermented liquid, called
(must?) is then cooked into syrup, poured into wooden casks to age and
annually blended with older (up to 18 years) balsamicos and pure Italian red
wine vinegar. When the correct depth and complexity of flavoring is
reached, the liquid gold is bottled as Costco's own.
"We dine in Modena with members of the local balsamic vinegar consortium,
saving prosciutto and wedges of pears dotted with balsamico and mustard jam,
tartufo (truffle) pasta, local wines, wild greens drizzled with balsamico
and roasted chestnuts.
"The consortio members are fierce defenders of tradition and warn that the
best proof of authencity is to look for a code that includes the producers
letters API and a licensing number followed by MO for Modena, on the label.
"Costco's labels are marked "API 28/MO." Basamicos without such a
designation are mere imitations."

I like this balsamic - woops, I just noticed that the 1 liter bottle I
bought is outdated by quite a lot of time. It says "best before 1/1/2004."
Too bad DH won't touch it. I believe he must be in a snit about it, and
says the other stuff is as good. Now the good stuff is going to waste.
But, I still must get another bottle for myself.

If you have comment regarding what I wrote, it is always welcome.
Dee Dee

Dee Randall wrote:

> I bought a lower priced balsamic vinegar (BV) at Costco for several
> years. Then they started selling another bottle which is their brand
> "Kirkland Balsamic Vinegar of Modena" "Private Reserve"
> On the back of the bottle, it says, "... Produced in the rustic
> Italian region of Modena, where Balsamic Vinegar originated, our
> vinegar is created using a centuries-old recipe and is aged in wooden
> casks for up to 15 years."

It could happen, yes, but why should they do all the hard work and the long
ageing and then give up the Consortium labeling? If it was really aged more
than 12 years, and if it was acceptable for the experts panel of the
Consortium who rate the BV before it gets labeled "tradizionale", they sure
would be selling it labeled as "tradizionale", but they don't.
So the reasons maybe many, let's see.
A) Area of production and ageing: they say that when the "liquid gold" is
ready, they bottle it at Costco. So they are not ageing it in the proper
area, and this excludes them from the "tradizionale" labeling.
B) Quality test: to get the "tradizionale" labeling a BV must be at least 12
years old (on average, since the process is just as the protuguese "solera"
for wines) and must reach at least X points on a 400 points range. If it
does not reach X points, no "tradizionale" labeling.

Another thing tio put into consideration is the fact that they are probably
"cutting" old BV with new concentrated grape juice, as many acetaie in
Modena do.

> In Costco's February 2006 magazine, they say:
> "Costco's Kirkland Signature Balsamic Vinegar of Modena is made the
> deliverate, Old World way. At harvest, local grapes, mostly seet
> Trebbiano, are gentlypressed to yield their juice. This unfermented
> liquid, called (must?)

Yes "must", "mosto" in italian.

> is then cooked into syrup, poured into wooden
> casks to age and annually blended with older (up to 18 years)
> balsamicos and pure Italian red wine vinegar.

This is whwere they admit they're not doing tradizionale (aged) but just BV
(not aged) adding "red wine vinegar". Be it from Modena or Reggio Emilia, in
tradizionale BV one can not add "wine vinegar" but only cooked grape juice.
It's only during the slow, years-long ageing that the acetic fermentation
makes TBV out of grape juice.

> When the correct depth
> and complexity of flavoring is reached, the liquid gold is bottled as
> Costco's own. "We dine in Modena with members of the local balsamic
> vinegar consortium,

This is not the Tradizionale BV of Modena Consortium, it is the BV of Modena
Consortium: two very different products.

> "The consortio members are fierce defenders of tradition and warn

If they were defenders of the tradition they wouldn't call "balsamic
vinegar" a thing which is nowhere near the real "aceto balsamico", so the
word "tradizionale" is now the only thing halping us to distinguish between
the two products. If they were defenders of tradition they would call theyr
product "balsamic dressing" (or "condimento balsamico") and would leave the
term "balsamic vinegar" only to the real BV.

> that the best proof of authencity is to look for a code that includes
> the producers letters API and a licensing number followed by MO for
> Modena, on the label. "Costco's labels are marked "API 28/MO."
> Basamicos without such a designation are mere imitations."

Well, here are the imitators who warn uf from the imitators of the imitators

Sure these informations can be useful, but I don't know how the generic BV
Consortium works nor I know its labeling system.

> I like this balsamic - woops, I just noticed that the 1 liter bottle I
> bought is outdated by quite a lot of time. It says "best before
> 1/1/2004." Too bad DH won't touch it. I believe he must be in a snit
> about it, and says the other stuff is as good. Now the good stuff is
> going to waste. But, I still must get another bottle for myself.
>
> If you have comment regarding what I wrote, it is always welcome.
> Dee Dee

Just another thing: as in all things in life, there's some lower league
player who's working very well, there's people producing non-tradizionale BV
with a care and a knowledge which makes theyr products wonderful. Hope that
Costco's BV is good as it sounds to.
I'd like to know wh's the italian producer makign theyr BV, maybe googling
around...
Cheers
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'