Andy wrote:
>
> I've been to foreign countries where everyone speaks probably five or
> more languages and I've been to countries where we had to draw pictures
> in the dirt to communicate.

Kentucky! <g>

Sheldon

Ah yes. . .The California DMV! Now that's a country all by itself!
Those folks speak their own language, and no one understands it;-(

Oh pshaw, on Wed 21 Jun 2006 05:30:08p, Leila meant to say...

> I mean, what if they traveled to countries south of our border
> and actually understood what people were saying to them? WHat then?

They might move there?

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Oh pshaw, on Wed 21 Jun 2006 05:30:08p, Leila meant to say...

>
> chilichick wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > There is this little Mexican grocery store here in Sacramento, that
>> > makes the most wonderful tamales.
>> >
>> > I've gone in there a few times to buy a dozen or so at a time. It is
>> > always a crap shoot, as to whether I will exit the market with the
much
>> > desired tamales. The reason. . .I don't speak Spanish, and half the
>> > time the people in the store don't speak English.
>> >
>> > Can someone tell me how to ask for "1 dozen beef tamales" in Spanish?
>> > I think what I need is to have someone just type it out here, and I
>> > could print it off, and take it into the market, like a note from Mom
>> > or something.
>> >
>> > Myrl Jeffcoat
>> > http://www.myrljeffcoat.com
>>
>> Hey everyone, all of the posts are very funny today
>> you would say:
>> una docena de tamales de res por favor.
>> phonetically...
>> oona doe cina de tamales de rez por favor
>> You can always make them yourself... My daughter and I have started
>> making them ourselves. It's work, we generally make 30 dozen or so and
>> give to family, but have made small batches of 4 dozen. We sometimes
>> make beef or pork along with jalapeno and cheese and maybe some sweet
>> ones. Good luck on your mission...
>> Be careful with the translation sites, they aren't always correct.
>
> Speaking of home-made tamales, how about those Spanish propagandists on
> PBS, running Spanish language cartoons and Sesame Street bits? Now they
> run cooking segments and my five year old wants to make chalupas! My
> six year old wants to make tamales! They see it on TV, they're
> corrupted.
>
> Good thing the right-wingers are cutting PBS funds to the bone, because
> all this pro-Spanish propaganda is going to raise a next generation of
> kids who might think it's okay to speak Spanish. WOuldn't want that to
> happen. I mean, what if they traveled to countries south of our border
> and actually understood what people were saying to them? WHat then?

I see no point in needing to learn the language of another culture when so
many don't bother to learn the predominant language of the country they
immigrate to.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Goomba38 wrote:
> >> Not everybody's father swam in the East river every day, I guess.
> >> The two extra fingers do come in handy somtimes, though.
> >>
> >> -sw
> >
> > ROTFL! Wertz, you crack me up.
> >
> Seemed okay advice to me, LOL. I actually was born with one extra toe
> and a small finger nubbin. My son the same. You'd never know you were't
> looking at a little wart on the side of my hand if you noticed it. The
> toes, being single and nuisances, came off via surgery during the first
> year. Everyone else in my family (ancestor wise) always had two extra
> toes. For some reason, starting with me we mutated into one toe and one
> finger.

Awwww, Geezus, do we really have to hear about it when we're EATING?

Sandy

On 2006-06-22, Will Ketcher > wrote:

> Ah yes. . .The California DMV! Now that's a country all by itself!
> Those folks speak their own language, and no one understands it;-(

Apparently, not even themselves!

nb

Wayne Boatwright wrote:

> I see no point in needing to learn the language of another culture when so
> many don't bother to learn the predominant language of the country they
> immigrate to.
>



Yeah, that'll show them, won't it!

In an international economy none of us can afford to speak other
languages, can we? Foreigners might mistake us for civilized or something.

Those uneducated, minimum wage workers should certainly be fluent once
they've been here for a month, and so many Americans are such a good
example for how easy it is to learn another language. Hah!

Old joke:
What do you call someone who speaks:
two languages? (bilingual)
three languages? (trilingual)
one language? (American)

gloria p

On 2006-06-21, Zilbandy > wrote:

> Until the baby boomers die off or get so old they don't care anymore
> (I'm a baby boomer), a mile is a mile, a yard a yard, a quart is a
> quart and a speed limit of 120 is really fast.

Nonsense! Ya' change all the measuring tools and gauges and standards
all at once. Everyone will be right at home in a week ...or as they
say in metric, 10 centi-weeks.

BTW, I notice the change to metric liquor bottles didn't bring
the US to a grinding halt. Even the most pickled sot adapted
instantly.

nb

notbob wrote:

> BTW, I notice the change to metric liquor bottles didn't bring
> the US to a grinding halt. Even the most pickled sot adapted
> instantly.


A fifth is *still* a fifth, nb...!!!

--
Best
Greg

On 2006-06-22, Gregory Morrow > wrote:

> A fifth is *still* a fifth, nb...!!!

See, they were using metric all along!

nb

Will Ketcher wrote:

> Ah yes. . .The California DMV! Now that's a country all by itself!
> Those folks speak their own language, and no one understands it;-(

And soon (I hope) they will be no more. Saw in the news a whilst ago
that the San Andreas fault is expected to go catastrophic some time
between tomorrow and ten years hence, and more than half of CA will
slip into the ocean taking a grand part of Mexico with it.

Ray
Austin, TX
===

Andy wrote:

> "Ray S. & Nayda Katzaman" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Let the flames begin.
> >
> > Take a note that says "Aprenda ingles, estas en los estados unidos
> ahora"
> > loosely translated "Learn English you are in the United States now".
> >
> > Ray
> > Austin, TX
> > ===
>
> Ray,
>
> In South Philadelphia, Geno's Steaks (cheesesteaks) started a big uproar
> when he (of Italian descent) put a sign next to the order window that
> said "This is America. Order in English!" With a waving American flag
> background.
>
> MAN, did that go over like a lead balloon. The people, the media, city
> government but the issue faded into oblivion.
>
> I sent Joe an e-mail questioning his wisdom. "So when tourists from other
> countries visit, you won't take THEIR business??? Quite the ambassador
> you are, 'WALLY!'"
>
> Pat's "King of Steaks" is just a few steps across the street. They could
> probably spatula flick cheez-whiz at each other.
>
> Sad thing is the argument between the two for decades about which one
> invented the cheesesteak is moot. THEY BOTH SUCK!!!
>
> Sorry to drift OT.
>
> Andy
>
> See: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2057207&page=1

I beg to differ with you here. He had the sign up for a couple of months and
customers were complying with the request. Then out of the clear blue sky
some reporter got wind of the sign and blew the whole thing out of
proportion. Then the city came in and has threatened him with legal action.
So much for free enterprise.

Ray
Austin, TX
===

Goomba38 wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
> > What's with this "dozen" thing, anyway? Mexico is on the metric
> > system. Ten fingers will do just fine.
> >
> > The US's failure to fully adopt metric is embarrassing, at best.
> >
> > nb
>
> What does that have to do with wanting 2 tamales each for 6 diners?
> Is she only allowed to order in metric increments of 10?
> Goomba

This is silly... The dozen is neither an English measure or a metric
measure.. grouping by the dozen precedes both. Mexicans do, sell, and
buy things by the dozen (docena) far more than Americans... especially
have children! hehe

Sheldon

Oh pshaw, on Wed 21 Jun 2006 06:41:09p, Puester meant to say...

> Wayne Boatwright wrote:
>
>> I see no point in needing to learn the language of another culture when
>> so many don't bother to learn the predominant language of the country
>> they immigrate to.
>>
>
>
>
> Yeah, that'll show them, won't it!
>
> In an international economy none of us can afford to speak other
> languages, can we? Foreigners might mistake us for civilized or
> something.
>
> Those uneducated, minimum wage workers should certainly be fluent once
> they've been here for a month, and so many Americans are such a good
> example for how easy it is to learn another language. Hah!

Whatever. I still don't feel compelled to learn another language to shop
in a store in my own country. If they expect to gain commerce from
American born "Americans", they should be willing to learn the language of
the country they're in. I'd wager that most Americans who open a smaller
private business in another country learn the language of that country in
order to do business.

I have studied German and French and reasonably accomodate both languages
when necessary. I have absolutely nothing against anyone being
multilingual. That's the point, after all, that some who wish to do
business in this country are unwilling to become bilingual in order to do
so.

Where I live, in central Arizona, there are countless Mexican shops where
enough English is spoken and understood that shopping there requires no
unusal effort. I have learned the product names in Spanish of things that
interest me. I have neither need nor desire to banter in Spanish or any
other language for the purpose of shopping.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Oh pshaw, on Wed 21 Jun 2006 07:23:32p, Ray S. & Nayda Katzaman meant to
say...

>
>
> Will Ketcher wrote:
>
>> Ah yes. . .The California DMV! Now that's a country all by itself!
>> Those folks speak their own language, and no one understands it;-(
>
> And soon (I hope) they will be no more. Saw in the news a whilst ago
> that the San Andreas fault is expected to go catastrophic some time
> between tomorrow and ten years hence, and more than half of CA will
> slip into the ocean taking a grand part of Mexico with it.

That would solve several problems.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

>on Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 5:25pm (Leila)wrote"

>This attitude is even more puzzling since the place in
>question is in Sacramento (a Spanish name) California (ditto), which
>was Mexican/California 160 years ago. At the very least, a
>sense of history, please! If you object to Spanish, please
>don't come to California.
>Leila - lives in Alameda County, across from San Francisco,
>on the former rancho
Peralta.-------------------------------------------------------
Well you gave me a good laugh tonite as I did live in California during
the mid 1970's with my ex b/f who was employed by a company that
required a lot of on the road traveling and moving.

San Francisco/Sunnyvale/ El Cajun/San Diego/Mission Beach plus one nite
each in San Jose/Sacramento/LaJolla.

I observed more hostilities towards the illegals from californians than
the period we lived in the deep part of Georgia with the good ole boys.

That election year- jimmy carter- two proposals were on the ballot to
increase phone rates to add spanish speaking operators & to bring up the
living standards of the camps for the migrant workers at tax payers
expense -both failed-.

I have kept in contact with a couple of friends who still live out their
and have to say your attitude is not shared with the majority of
californians and as much as I loved the state missing walking @ nite on
the beach watching the sun set & collecting sea shells when the tide was
out I wouldn't move back with the problem of illegals that has only
gotten worst.

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...
>
> Where I live, in central Arizona, there are countless Mexican shops where
> enough English is spoken and understood that shopping there requires no
> unusal effort. I have learned the product names in Spanish of things that
> interest me. I have neither need nor desire to banter in Spanish or any
> other language for the purpose of shopping.

There's a little shop that I go to where they make tortillas and sell
Mexican groceries. Not a big store, but the tortillas are good, the cilantro
is always fresh, and the avocados are better than the supermarkets, and
usually cheaper, too.

One fellow usually waits on me; I have a feeling his English is better that
some of the others in the store. But it's not like we have big
conversations. Usually they just ring up the purchases, tell me how much it
is, count back the change, and say "thank you."

But now and then I ask for something, and the only time he didn't understand
what I wanted was when I asked for corn husks for tamales. I didn't know the
Spanish word, and he didn't know the English, but when I explained it, he
had someone go in the back and get a bag of husks for me, no problem.

Considering how good his English is, generally, I was surprised that he
didn't understand me, but then again, he probably doesn't get many
non-Mexicans coming in and asking for corn husks.

Donna

Oh pshaw, on Wed 21 Jun 2006 10:49:29p, D.Currie meant to say...

>
> "Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
> 28.19...
>>
>> Where I live, in central Arizona, there are countless Mexican shops
>> where enough English is spoken and understood that shopping there
>> requires no unusal effort. I have learned the product names in Spanish
>> of things that interest me. I have neither need nor desire to banter
>> in Spanish or any other language for the purpose of shopping.
>
> There's a little shop that I go to where they make tortillas and sell
> Mexican groceries. Not a big store, but the tortillas are good, the
> cilantro is always fresh, and the avocados are better than the
> supermarkets, and usually cheaper, too.
>
> One fellow usually waits on me; I have a feeling his English is better
> that some of the others in the store. But it's not like we have big
> conversations. Usually they just ring up the purchases, tell me how much
> it is, count back the change, and say "thank you."
>
> But now and then I ask for something, and the only time he didn't
> understand what I wanted was when I asked for corn husks for tamales. I
> didn't know the Spanish word, and he didn't know the English, but when I
> explained it, he had someone go in the back and get a bag of husks for
> me, no problem.
>
> Considering how good his English is, generally, I was surprised that he
> didn't understand me, but then again, he probably doesn't get many
> non-Mexicans coming in and asking for corn husks.

Exactly so. This has also been my experience in the shops where I prefer
shopping.

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 23:15:37 -0400, (ms. tonya)
wrote:

>>on Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 5:25pm (Leila)wrote"
>
>>This attitude is even more puzzling since the place in
>>question is in Sacramento (a Spanish name) California (ditto), which
>>was Mexican/California 160 years ago. At the very least, a
>>sense of history, please! If you object to Spanish, please
>>don't come to California.
>>Leila - lives in Alameda County, across from San Francisco,
>>on the former rancho
>Peralta.-------------------------------------------------------
>Well you gave me a good laugh tonite as I did live in California during
>the mid 1970's with my ex b/f who was employed by a company that
>required a lot of on the road traveling and moving.
>
>San Francisco/Sunnyvale/ El Cajun/San Diego/Mission Beach plus one nite
>each in San Jose/Sacramento/LaJolla.

I've been in the San Dieog area since 1963 (and it is El Cajon, btw).


>I observed more hostilities towards the illegals from californians than
>the period we lived in the deep part of Georgia with the good ole boys.

BS and you know it. Your bigotry in in full fledge. There has not been
that much hostility here until recently.



>I have kept in contact with a couple of friends who still live out their
>and have to say your attitude is not shared with the majority of
>californians and as much as I loved the state missing walking @ nite on
>the beach watching the sun set & collecting sea shells when the tide was
>out I wouldn't move back with the problem of illegals that has only
>gotten worst.

Please don't - we do not want you here.


jim

notbob wrote:
> Zilbandy wrote:
>
> > Until the baby boomers die off or get so old they don't care anymore
> > (I'm a baby boomer), a mile is a mile, a yard a yard, a quart is a
> > quart and a speed limit of 120 is really fast.
>
> Nonsense! Ya' change all the measuring tools and gauges and standards
> all at once. Everyone will be right at home in a week ...or as they
> say in metric, 10 centi-weeks.
>
> BTW, I notice the change to metric liquor bottles didn't bring
> the US to a grinding halt. Even the most pickled sot adapted
> instantly.

Nonsense! Sots couldn't care less about anything other than the bottle
ain't empty... and barkeeps still pour same as always, and shot glasses
are still the same everywhere.

Whichever measuring system a person learned from birth will be the only
one they will be truly comfortable until their death... call it a
mechanic's native language if you will... you got a better chance of
changing the harmonics of music.

Sheldon

On 20 Jun 2006 18:31:30 -0700, wrote:

>There is this little Mexican grocery store here in Sacramento, that
>makes the most wonderful tamales.
>
>I've gone in there a few times to buy a dozen or so at a time. It is
>always a crap shoot, as to whether I will exit the market with the much
>desired tamales. The reason. . .I don't speak Spanish, and half the
>time the people in the store don't speak English.
>
>Can someone tell me how to ask for "1 dozen beef tamales" in Spanish?
>I think what I need is to have someone just type it out here, and I
>could print it off, and take it into the market, like a note from Mom
>or something.
>
>Myrl Jeffcoat
>http://www.myrljeffcoat.com
>

Where in Sac? I'm in S. Natomas.

TammyM

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
28.19...

>> But now and then I ask for something, and the only time he didn't
>> understand what I wanted was when I asked for corn husks for tamales. I
>> didn't know the Spanish word, and he didn't know the English, but when I
>> explained it, he had someone go in the back and get a bag of husks for
>> me, no problem.
>>
>> Considering how good his English is, generally, I was surprised that he
>> didn't understand me, but then again, he probably doesn't get many
>> non-Mexicans coming in and asking for corn husks.
>
> Exactly so. This has also been my experience in the shops where I prefer
> shopping.

I get the feeling that they don't get many non-Hispanic shoppers at the one
place I go to, so even if they didn't speak English, it probably wouldn't
impact their business all that much. But when they see me come in, they
always go get that one guy to help me, and my guess is because his English
is better. Which is good for them to do.

There's another Mexican store that's somewhat more of a challenge, because
of the meat market. There are some cuts that I don't know the name for in
Spanish or English, so there's generally a lot of pointing that goes on.
Works well enough.

Donna

In article <S_amg.14013$XJ4.564@trndny02>,
"Mordechai Housman" > wrote:
(snippage)
> > hoy = today (don't pronounce the 'h' - it's pronounced like the
> > Jews do when they're throwing up their hands in frustration or
> > resignation of a situation beyond reasonable comprehension -- you
> > know, oy!)

>
> So what does "Oy ayoy" mean in Spanish? Or, for that matter, the
> Modern-day Israeli equivalent: "Oy Vavoy." Does that mean anything in
> Spanish?

I don't know that 'oy' is a word en español. I know the phrase in
"kitchen" Slovak, though. :-)

{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Chicken in Lime-Onion Marinade

Recipe By: posted to rec.food.cooking by Barb Schaller, 6-22-06
Serving Size: 4
Preparation Time: 0:00
Categories: Entrees

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
4 skinless chicken breast halves on the bone.
1 small onion thinly sliced
2 cloves garlic minced
1 jalapeño pepper seeded and minced
6 Tbsp. lime juice (2-3 limes)
1 Tbsp. olive oil
1/8 tsp. salt (1/8 to 1/4)
Freshly ground black pepper

Put chicken, onion, garlic and jalapeño into a gallon-sized closeable
bag.

In a small jar, combine lime juice and oil, shaking well to combine.
Put all but 1 Tbsp. over meat. Close bag and shake to redistribute
ingredients. Marinate 2-24 hours. Remove chicken from bag. Drain the
onions and reserve. heat a non-stick skillet over medium-high heat.
Brown chicken on the skin side. Put into baking dish, salt and pepper
and bake at 350 for 30 minutes or until done. While chicken is cooking,
combine the onions and reserved tablespoon of marinade; cook over medium
heat 15 minutes until soft and golden. Spoon over chicken and serve.
Makes 4 servings.

‹‹‹‹‹
Notes: Source: Arizona Republic newspaper, 2/22/95, at Irene's.
--
-Barb
<http://jamlady.eboard.com> Updated 6-15-2006; Spanish Chicken and
Rice.
"If it's not worth doing to excess, it's not worth doing at all."

Gregory Morrow wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
> > BTW, I notice the change to metric liquor bottles didn't bring
> > the US to a grinding halt. Even the most pickled sot adapted
> > instantly.
>
>
> A fifth is *still* a fifth, nb...!!!

What's a fifth in real terms ? A 26er ?

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Ray S. & Nayda Katzaman wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > There is this little Mexican grocery store here in Sacramento, that
> > makes the most wonderful tamales.
> >
> > I've gone in there a few times to buy a dozen or so at a time. It is
> > always a crap shoot, as to whether I will exit the market with the much
> > desired tamales. The reason. . .I don't speak Spanish, and half the
> > time the people in the store don't speak English.
> >
> > Can someone tell me how to ask for "1 dozen beef tamales" in Spanish?
> > I think what I need is to have someone just type it out here, and I
> > could print it off, and take it into the market, like a note from Mom
> > or something.
> >
> > Myrl Jeffcoat
> > http://www.myrljeffcoat.com
>
> Let the flames begin.
>
> Take a note that says "Aprenda ingles, estas en los estados unidos ahora"
> loosely translated "Learn English you are in the United States now".
>
> Ray
> Austin, TX
> ===
Of course in Texas there is always the chance that their family has
lived there a lot longer than your family and may have fought beside
Davy Huston or whatever his name was. I always find it strange that so
many Americans seem to assume that Spanish speakers must be recent
immigrants.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Andy wrote:
> "Ray S. & Nayda Katzaman" > wrote in
> :
>
> > Let the flames begin.
> >
> > Take a note that says "Aprenda ingles, estas en los estados unidos
> ahora"
> > loosely translated "Learn English you are in the United States now".
> >
> > Ray
> > Austin, TX
> > ===
>
>
> Ray,
>
> In South Philadelphia, Geno's Steaks (cheesesteaks) started a big uproar
> when he (of Italian descent) put a sign next to the order window that
> said "This is America. Order in English!" With a waving American flag
> background.
>

Very weird. I certainly would not got there and I speak English.

OTOH there used to be a market stall in the Ottawa Byward market whose
owner had his signs in English, French, Spanish, and Japanese though
I'm pretty sure that he only spoke English and French. But there were
lots of Japanese and Spanish speaking tourists in town and he sold
maple syrup which makes a handy souvenir/gift for back home.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Dave Smith wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
> > What? Wally is supposed to learn every language on the planet to
> > accommodate tourists?
>
> Of course he isn't expected to learn every language on the planet to
> accommodate tourists. That's probably not even an issue. Most of the tourists
> who travel to North America speak enough English to get by, or else they travel
> in tours and have someone to translate for them. It sounds to me like his
> attitude is directed at immigrant groups, some of which are more likely to try
> keep operating in their native language than others.
>
> > Wally is right on target. It's a goddamn disgrace. We have no
> > national health care program, but govt ballots, public assistance
> > applications, etc, are printed in dozens of languages. Last I heard,
> > CA DMV driving manuals are printed in at least 6 foreign languages.
> > How in the Hell can someone obey English street signs if they take the
> > driving test in Tagalog?
>
> It's a puzzle isn't it. I know that immigrants here are supposed to be able to
> speak one of the two official languages, so it seems odd that forms like that
> should be in other languages.

Actually Dave I think that they are supposed to 'speak' the language.
I don't know if they need to read it. I don't believe literacy is a
requirement for citizenship. I can still remember my boss years ago
saying that he was not sure one of our bakers could read English and
then the realization struck: The baker was Greek.

Also there is quite a bit of difference between a survival level
reading in a language and being able to handle anything complex. I can
read La Press with a bit of effort and guessing at odd words but I need
to really concentrate and keep a dictionary handy to handle a technical
paper.


>Then there is the question of ESL classes for
> immigrants. There is no doubt that they are a good idea, but I question the
> funding. I can't think of any reason that the English speaking taxpayers should
> be footing the bill for foreign language speaking immigrants.

You prefer that we let only the francophones pay ? Humm maybe not a
bad idea at that.

> When they come here it should be up to them to deal with that.

Well if we let them in we probabaly should try to make them productive
citizens asap and if we have to spend a bit on ESL or FSL it probably
pays off. I suspect in many cases a family may arrive based on one
'prime' immigrant who speaks English or French but it may be worth our
while to see that others in the family learn the language.

Also refugees are a different matter. They didn't necessarrily plan on
coming here they just wanted to get out of wherever with a whole skin.

Dave Smith wrote:
> Andy wrote:
>
> >
> > Simmer down bro!!! His name is Joe! 'Wally' is an Australian derogatory
> > term.
> >
> > I agree about the California DMV. Took my written test and road test
> > there. For the written test, they asked me which language I wanted to
> > take the test in, after speaking to them in plain English for 10
> > minutes!!!
>

So? I speak half-decent French but sure would prefer an exam in
English. Contrarywise I know some native English speakers who have
done most of their education in French and who probably would prefer a
written exam in French.

> You should have asked for it in Braille :-)

I like it.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

" wrote:

>
> > When they come here it should be up to them to deal with that.
>
> Well if we let them in we probabaly should try to make them productive
> citizens asap and if we have to spend a bit on ESL or FSL it probably
> pays off. I suspect in many cases a family may arrive based on one
> 'prime' immigrant who speaks English or French but it may be worth our
> while to see that others in the family learn the language.

I don't question that there is benefit to all of them learning English. My problem is
with getting stuck with the bill. They are the immigrants. They came here fore a
better life <?>. We didn't go there. They should pay for their own language lessons.

> Also refugees are a different matter. They didn't necessarrily plan on
> coming here they just wanted to get out of wherever with a whole skin.

Given the number of bogus refugee claims, I would suggest that most of them are
either jumping the immigration or simply getting loose and disappearing in the
underground market.

" wrote:

>
> >
>
> So? I speak half-decent French but sure would prefer an exam in
> English. Contrarywise I know some native English speakers who have
> done most of their education in French and who probably would prefer a
> written exam in French.

Not a problem. Those are the official languages, not Italian, Spanish,
Portuguese, Hindi, Urdu, Mandarin etc.

>
> > You should have asked for it in Braille :-)
>
> I like it.

Dave Smith wrote:
> " wrote:
>
> >
> > > When they come here it should be up to them to deal with that.
> >
> > Well if we let them in we probabaly should try to make them productive
> > citizens asap and if we have to spend a bit on ESL or FSL it probably
> > pays off. I suspect in many cases a family may arrive based on one
> > 'prime' immigrant who speaks English or French but it may be worth our
> > while to see that others in the family learn the language.
>
> I don't question that there is benefit to all of them learning English. My problem is
> with getting stuck with the bill. They are the immigrants. They came here fore a
> better life <?>. We didn't go there. They should pay for their own language lessons.

Cheaper than welfare?
>
> > Also refugees are a different matter. They didn't necessarrily plan on
> > coming here they just wanted to get out of wherever with a whole skin.
>
> Given the number of bogus refugee claims, I would suggest that most of them are
> either jumping the immigration or simply getting loose and disappearing in the
> underground market.

Doubt it but we would have to check the figures and I have no idea
where they would be. There's bound to be a few queue jumpers but even
understaffed etc as they are Immigration probably gets most of them.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

10600 block of Coloma Road in Rancho Cordova. It's a Lopez Family
Carneceria.

John wrote:

>
> > I don't question that there is benefit to all of them learning English. My problem is
> > with getting stuck with the bill. They are the immigrants. They came here fore a
> > better life <?>. We didn't go there. They should pay for their own language lessons.
>
> Cheaper than welfare?

Screw that. I don't think that welfare should be an option for immigrants. That comes out
of money that our citizens have been paying into. It's sort of like collecting on an
insurance policy without every having paid into it.
If people think that it is important to have ESL languages for immigrants and refugees,
then by all means get together with like minded people and volunteer your time and effort.
I don't think that it should be coming out of the education budget.


> >
> > > Also refugees are a different matter. They didn't necessarrily plan on
> > > coming here they just wanted to get out of wherever with a whole skin.
> >
> > Given the number of bogus refugee claims, I would suggest that most of them are
> > either jumping the immigration or simply getting loose and disappearing in the
> > underground market.
>
> Doubt it but we would have to check the figures and I have no idea
> where they would be. There's bound to be a few queue jumpers but even
> understaffed etc as they are Immigration probably gets most of them.
>
> John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

The number of refugee claims that are successful averages around 48%. More than half are
rejected as not being credible. Some arrive with false papers and some arrive without any.
I have flown internationally from European airports and I know the procedure. You have to
show your passport when you check in with the airline. You have to show it again when you
go through security clearance. You have to show it when you arrive at the departure
lounge, then again when you leave there to the ramp to the plane, and once more when as you
board the plane. That's 5 times that you have to show your passport from the time you
arrive at the airport until the time you actually board the plane. Some off them arrive
with no papers. As far as I am concerned, they have already proved themselves to be
unreliable and should be sent right back.

A few years ago there were a number of boats full of Chinese refugees who washed up on the
west coast. More than half of them disappeared before they cases were heard.

ohn wrote:

>
> > Not a problem. Those are the official languages, not Italian, Spanish,
> > Portuguese, Hindi, Urdu, Mandarin etc.
>
> Where? I had a look at the ON site and didn't see anything about
> languages but it's a lousey site.
>

I did a 4 week secondment in a driver examination office.... in Ontario. There
are all sorts of different languages tests.

Feel sorry for those people. It's a crappy job. During the time I did it every
20 minutes you have to get into a car with someone who probably doesn't know
ho w to drive, and even if they can drive, they are nervous.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> 10600 block of Coloma Road in Rancho Cordova. It's a Lopez Family
> Carneceria.

Thank you! Worth a trip in that direction, from what you've said.

TammyM

My people immigrated to this country in 1629. . .So I guess the Native
American Indians, probably have a beef to pick against me. We didn't
speak their language when we arrived either. But we didn't expect the
Indians to be obligated to teach us theirs. We didn't think the
Indians should be responsible for our well being, when we landed. Even
though they gave us a few ears of corn.

I guess I can understand people from most any where wishing to have a
better life for their families. I don't think we should label them as
felons when they come here illegally. I do however, think those that
hire them, should be targeted, and severely punished. We seize
property in drug raids. . .I think we should seize business and
property of those who hire them.

What people don't understand, is that if one business hires illegals,
and pays them substandard wages, that business is undercutting their
business competition. They are creating an unfair playing field, for
those businesses abiding by the rules.

I also think when illegals come to this country, and have a child in
this country, that child should not be an automatic American citizen.
The citizenship of the child, should remain the same as the citizenship
of the parents.

I also think that foreign investment into the countries which illegals
come from, would provide better jobs and a healthier economy in their
countries. This would help to allieviate our becoming a magnet for
illegals.

On 23 Jun 2006 14:36:12 -0700, wrote:

about her pinto bean farts - thankfully she didn;t leave a recipe
behind.


jim

wrote:
> My people immigrated to this country in 1629. .

Err, if this is a follow up to Dave and I, I think you're in a
different country. A lot of the illegal issues mentioned below are not
so noticeable here.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

>.So I guess the Native
> American Indians, probably have a beef to pick against me. We didn't
> speak their language when we arrived either. But we didn't expect the
> Indians to be obligated to teach us theirs. We didn't think the
> Indians should be responsible for our well being, when we landed. Even
> though they gave us a few ears of corn.
>
> I guess I can understand people from most any where wishing to have a
> better life for their families. I don't think we should label them as
> felons when they come here illegally. I do however, think those that
> hire them, should be targeted, and severely punished. We seize
> property in drug raids. . .I think we should seize business and
> property of those who hire them.
>
> What people don't understand, is that if one business hires illegals,
> and pays them substandard wages, that business is undercutting their
> business competition. They are creating an unfair playing field, for
> those businesses abiding by the rules.
>
> I also think when illegals come to this country, and have a child in
> this country, that child should not be an automatic American citizen.
> The citizenship of the child, should remain the same as the citizenship
> of the parents.
>
> I also think that foreign investment into the countries which illegals
> come from, would provide better jobs and a healthier economy in their
> countries. This would help to allieviate our becoming a magnet for
> illegals.

wrote:

> My people immigrated to this country in 1629. . .So I guess the Native
> American Indians, probably have a beef to pick against me. We didn't
> speak their language when we arrived either. But we didn't expect the
> Indians to be obligated to teach us theirs. We didn't think the
> Indians should be responsible for our well being, when we landed. Even
> though they gave us a few ears of corn.

Mine were there about the same time, and no, they didn't expect the Indians
to teach them their language(s). They expected to speak English, and some
of the Indians already spoke English when the Mayflower arrived. They had
already picked it up English fishermen who had been visiting the coast for
many years.

The original colonists were very dependent upon the Indians for their
survival. In fact, they were so short of food that they stole corn caches
from the Indians. They had found the caches as they searched around for a
place to settle, and for food. The Indians had gone inland for the winter,
and most of the Indian population had died off in epidemics over the
previous few years. The Indians taught the settlers how to plant the
corn, sowing it when a particular herring species came upstream to spawn.

> I also think when illegals come to this country, and have a child in
> this country, that child should not be an automatic American citizen.
> The citizenship of the child, should remain the same as the citizenship
> of the parents.

It seems to work in the rest of the world. There are thousands of
Palestinians born every year in the middle east, and they are still
Palestinians.

>
> I also think that foreign investment into the countries which illegals
> come from, would provide better jobs and a healthier economy in their
> countries. This would help to allieviate our becoming a magnet for
> illegals.

I think that the UN should be assessing costs against and collecting money
from the countries that people are escaping from and then paying that money
to the countries that are accepting the refugees. And FWIW.... Canada and
the US are not the only countries where you find refugees. We actually get
only a small number of them.