OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!

AFTER eight days in my unpowered fridge!

There was a blackout here in NYC...but unbelievably, I don't smell
anything rotten in the 'fridge!

I wonder what else is still edible...??

I have unopened fat-free Lactaid lactose-free milk...a package of
unopened Louis Rich turkey slices...unopened bags of Chinese dumplings
in the freezer...unopened boxes of frozen TV dinners...opened peanut
butter and jam...hmmm!!

Anyone know about the science behind food and food spoilage?

If it doesn't smell bad and doesn't look bad and doesn't taste bad, can
it still be eaten if nuked (microwaved) or cooked thoroughly??

If no, why not? I mean, isn't that the same principle behind recycling
water -- kill the germs somehow, and it's okay all over again???

Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!

NYC XYZ wrote:
> OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!
>
> AFTER eight days in my unpowered fridge!
>
> There was a blackout here in NYC...but unbelievably, I don't smell
> anything rotten in the 'fridge!
>
> I wonder what else is still edible...??
>
> I have unopened fat-free Lactaid lactose-free milk...a package of
> unopened Louis Rich turkey slices...unopened bags of Chinese dumplings
> in the freezer...unopened boxes of frozen TV dinners...opened peanut
> butter and jam...hmmm!!
>
> Anyone know about the science behind food and food spoilage?
>
> If it doesn't smell bad and doesn't look bad and doesn't taste bad, can
> it still be eaten if nuked (microwaved) or cooked thoroughly??
>
> If no, why not? I mean, isn't that the same principle behind recycling
> water -- kill the germs somehow, and it's okay all over again???
>
> Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!

My health means too much to experiment with. I came close to dying from
food poisoning years ago and vowed never again, if possible.
I would keep the peanut butter and perhaps the jam if not moldy. The
top layer of the jam could be scrapped off.
The good news is you did not have any real food in the fridge.

NYC XYZ wrote:
> OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!

You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.

Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
all the bad stuff.

N.

>
> AFTER eight days in my unpowered fridge!
>
> There was a blackout here in NYC...but unbelievably, I don't smell
> anything rotten in the 'fridge!
>
> I wonder what else is still edible...??
>
> I have unopened fat-free Lactaid lactose-free milk...a package of
> unopened Louis Rich turkey slices...unopened bags of Chinese dumplings
> in the freezer...unopened boxes of frozen TV dinners...opened peanut
> butter and jam...hmmm!!
>
> Anyone know about the science behind food and food spoilage?
>
> If it doesn't smell bad and doesn't look bad and doesn't taste bad, can
> it still be eaten if nuked (microwaved) or cooked thoroughly??
>
> If no, why not? I mean, isn't that the same principle behind recycling
> water -- kill the germs somehow, and it's okay all over again???
>
> Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Nancy2 wrote:
>
> You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
> alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
>
> Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
> anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
> would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
> tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
> smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
> all the bad stuff.
>
> N.


I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except the
peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local utility
company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists and proofs
of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so I guess I'd
feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....

I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
corpses??

"NYC XYZ" > wrote:

>I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
>these germs be killed?

You have bacteria and mold and toxic byproducts. Mold spores are very
hard to kill and still have food edible.

> Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
>introduce to the food be neutralized?

It simply isn't cost effective.

> I mean, just how do they do it
>when recycling water?

Filtration, sometimes on a molecular level, ozone or chlorine to
literally rip cell structure apart, and other processes that wouldn't
work on food.

>Is food just much too complicated by comparison?

Yep.

> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
>corpses??

Sometimes they do, and sometimes people can eat rotting corpses and
survive. In general, you'll discover that carrion eaters tend to have
a shorter lifespan, or are different enough metabolically that the
rotting food doesn't harm them. A dung beetle, housefly and vulture
all have different metabolisms than (most) humans.

A lot also depends on what is doing the rotting. It was common before
refrigeration for farmers to allow beef to age in a cellar and just
cut off the worst of the green moldy meat. Sailors were often fed
rotton meat on long ocean voyages. Some people got sick, some didn't.

Was your chicken edible? Maybe. It just is that the risk/reward
ratio sucks. With 50/50 odds, you might either save 5 bux or end up
wishing you were dead for four days and then getting a bill for
$10,000 from a hospital.

NYC XYZ wrote:
....
> I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
> these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
> introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
> when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
> corpses??

You could try doing a few web searches, at the very least. These
questions are the kind of things that people spend their lives
learning the answers.

To start with...
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Help/FAQs_F...fety/index.asp
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/
http://www.survival-center.com/foodf...c.htm#contents
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/food/preserving/part1/

Basically speaking, the bacteria, molds and fungi that make
food smell, taste and look bad usually aren't going to make
you sick while the ones that do make you sick usually don't
change the flavor.

You can kill bacteria by cooking or pasteurizing but you can't
remove the toxins and waste products that way. Even though
the critters that made those toxins are dead, the poison will
still kill you.

You could neutralize the toxins in a variety of ways but in
the process you would also neutralize the food.

Water is easier to clean up than food because it's much less
complex. Even so, it often requires multiple steps, lots of
energy and the final product is not allowed to be sold for
human consumption.

Animals in the wild do get sick but the ones that specialize
in eating rotting things have evolved specialized digestive
systems that can deal with it. People have not evolved to
eat rotting corpses.

Anthony

NYC XYZ > wrote:
> Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
>> alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
>>
>> Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p.
>> butter, anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your
>> list I would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food
>> science to tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste
>> alright and smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No,
>> cooking won't destroy all the bad stuff.
>>
>> N.
>
>
> I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except
> the peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local
> utility company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists
> and proofs of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so
> I guess I'd feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....

> I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage.
> Just why can't these germs be killed?

Some can, some produce toxins that arent practical to get rid of,
most obviously with many moulds. If for example you let bread or
cheese go mouldy, there isnt any practical way to get rid of that.

> Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes
> they introduce to the food be neutralized?

Its not practical with some food. Much simpler to discard it.

> I mean, just how do they do it when recycling water?

Water is a lot easier to treat than some other stuff.

> Is food just much too complicated by comparison?

Yes, that's the general idea. Quite a bit of decay isnt
reversible and thats completely different to water.

> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting corpses??

They have evolved with digestive systems that can handle that.

But it isnt always perfect, there are some diseases that do get
caught by animals like lions when what they eat carrys those diseases.

And modern food systems can produce dangerous
organisms that you just dont see in wild animal food too.

On 26 Jul 2006 14:31:14 -0700, "NYC XYZ" >
wrote:

>
>Nancy2 wrote:
>>
>> You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
>> alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
>>
Only time I ever got bad food poisoning was from the "yesterdays"
chicken KFC used to sell (don't know if they still do.)
Went from KFC right into a cooler, then ate it out in the boat while
fishing. Laid me up for 2 days.

>> Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
>> anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
>> would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
>> tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
>> smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
>> all the bad stuff.
>>
>> N.
>
>
>I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except the
>peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local utility
>company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists and proofs
>of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so I guess I'd
>feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....
>
>I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
>these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
>introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
>when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
>corpses??

Hey, if you live in Queens, just stay out of the Marine bar. And
O'leary's. You'll be ok.

--Vic

"NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Nancy2 wrote:
> >
> > You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
> > alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
> >
> > Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
> > anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
> > would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
> > tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
> > smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
> > all the bad stuff.
> >
> > N.
>
>
> I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except the
> peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local utility
> company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists and proofs
> of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so I guess I'd
> feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....
>
> I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
> these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
> introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
> when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
> corpses??
>

There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are heat
stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
multiply inside of you and make you sick.

Don't eat this stuff.

helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)

"NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!

I sure WOULDN'T feed that shit to a homeless DOG!

> Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!

KFC is worse than a backfire burrito! Some of the worst food available.
Read all about it in newspapers, check it out on the internet. KFC is SHIT.
If you really WANT uncontrollable gas with oily discharge (also known as
blowouts)
then KFC is for you! "Keeping America moving and regular...KFC"


>

Rastis P. Buttsnort wrote:
>
>
> I sure WOULDN'T feed that shit to a homeless DOG!
>
> KFC is worse than a backfire burrito! Some of the worst food available.
> Read all about it in newspapers, check it out on the internet. KFC is SHIT.
> If you really WANT uncontrollable gas with oily discharge (also known as
> blowouts)
> then KFC is for you! "Keeping America moving and regular...KFC"


Yeah, I really ought to read my copy of "Fast Food Nation"
finally...LOL!

Thanks y'all for everything. This has been very interesting, and I'm
inspired anew to eat better. I'm going to cut fast food down to once a
month from the once a week I now do on average.

I should also learn how to cook!

Vic Smith wrote:
>
>
> Hey, if you live in Queens, just stay out of the Marine bar. And
> O'leary's. You'll be ok.
>
> --Vic


Hehehe!

Actually, I'm staying clear of all perishable foods in neighborhood
businesses...I'm not buying juice or meat or anything that needs
refrigeration from around here in northwestern Queens -- who knows
whether they really tossed out all the food? Even in normal times I
occasionally find out-of-date stuff on the shelves! Especially small
businesses like the corner convenience store...I'm just not sure how
long to wait until I shop for and dine on perishables around here....

Anthony Matonak wrote:
>
>
> You could try doing a few web searches, at the very least. These
> questions are the kind of things that people spend their lives
> learning the answers.
>
> To start with...
> http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Help/FAQs_F...fety/index.asp
> http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/
> http://www.survival-center.com/foodf...c.htm#contents
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/food/preserving/part1/

Thanks for the refs, but I really have no luck with internet search
engines. Besides, a newsgroup (when right!) may be more current, even
on an "established" topic like this.

> <SNIP>
>
> Water is easier to clean up than food because it's much less
> complex. Even so, it often requires multiple steps, lots of
> energy and the final product is not allowed to be sold for
> human consumption.

Why not, if it's really clean? Just who or what uses recycled water,
then? I'm assuming there aren't separate tanks in a household, etc.,
for "virgin" water and recycled water. I know that back in the early
'80s, Mayor Koch here authorized the use of recycled water in city
drinking supplies -- for a time, at least -- due to some kind of
crisis....

And just why do water fountains in the park lose water pressure when
someone flushes in the outhouse nearby??

> Animals in the wild do get sick but the ones that specialize
> in eating rotting things have evolved specialized digestive
> systems that can deal with it. People have not evolved to
> eat rotting corpses.

Ah, well, watching them nature shows, where animals bury their prey for
retrieval days later, I got the impression that they're able to snack
without worry!

> Anthony

Helen Harrand wrote:
> "NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
>
>
> There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
> Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
> that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are heat
> stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
> Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
> multiply inside of you and make you sick.
>
> Don't eat this stuff.
>
> helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)


Well, how about frozen pastries, then, like my two giant boxes of
tiramisu?

Oh, how I hate to see good food go bad! What a waste...tsk, tsk....

How about something like beef jerky, which I'm snacking on right now?
For some reason, the maker suggested refrigerating even unopened
packages (the things arrived in the mail boxed in dry ice!) of it.

Thanks, Helen. I'm pretty sure I won't eat anything else. =)

But I have to say that I've had no problems yet from the KFC!! Unless
I'm just going to slowly go mad or live two years less or lose internet
access or something.... ;->

"NYC XYZ" > wrote

> And just why do water fountains in the park lose water pressure when
> someone flushes in the outhouse nearby??

Easy one. The water pressure is now being diverted to another
outlet ... same amount of water, now being split off to two exits.
A friend of mine was freaked out by that happening to the fountains
by the rest rooms at work, I told her if the pressure at the fountain goes
up when someone flushes, then you should worry. Kidding, but I don't
think she got what I was saying, anyway.

nancy

>on Tue, Jul 25, 2006, 6:08pm (NYC*XYZ)
foolishly asks:
>OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just
>fine!
>AFTER eight days in my unpowered fridge!
>There was a blackout here in NYC...but unbelievably, I don't
>smell anything rotten in the 'fridge!
>I wonder what else is still edible...??
>I have unopened fat-free Lactaid lactose-free milk...a package of
unopened
>Louis Rich turkey slices...unopened bags of Chinese dumplings in the
>freezer...unopened boxes of frozen TV dinners...opened peanut butter
and jam...hmmm!!
>Anyone know about the science behind food and food spoilage?
>If it doesn't smell bad and doesn't look bad and
>doesn't taste bad, can it still be eaten if nuked
>(microwaved) or cooked thoroughly??
>If no, why not? I mean, isn't that the same
>principle behind recycling water -- kill the germs somehow, and
>it's okay all over again???
>Hope I don't have the runs
later...LOLOLOLOL!!!-----------------------------------------------------------

Use common sense, food that has been sitting in fridge for 8 days no
power then trying KFC leftovers?

Won't be humorous when you post from a hospital room.

Few years back when Michigan to East Coast & Toronto had that black out
in august we had no power from friday afternoon - 4pm- to sunday evening
-8pm-.

We couldn't afford the loss but empty the fridge to the dumpster.

I think you are putting us on....

I saw some media footage of KFC. They buy chickens that are raised in
horribly unsterile and cruel conditions. Packed like sardines in filthy,
feces covered, cages. They can't run around freely (because it burns off
fat). They're given so much growth hormones that they can't even walk
because their breast meat is too fat. Workers shown callously stepping on
chickens and breaking their legs while throwing them into trucks to take to
the slaughterhouse. Many birth defects and deformities. Disgusting. I'd
rather get my protein through beans or soy. Don't go to KFC.

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Anthony Matonak wrote:
>>Water is easier to clean up than food because it's much less
>>complex. Even so, it often requires multiple steps, lots of
>>energy and the final product is not allowed to be sold for
>>human consumption.
>
> Why not, if it's really clean? Just who or what uses recycled water,
> then?

It's used mostly for irrigation. Plants actually grow better with
a little sewage. It's not used for human consumption mainly because
people object to drinking sewage, not for any health reasons. That
said, there is a tiny but real chance that something might get
through the processing somehow. It's just not worth taking the chance.

> And just why do water fountains in the park lose water pressure when
> someone flushes in the outhouse nearby??

What? No, "Why is the sky blue?". This is why search engines are
so good. You can ask questions until you pass out without ****ing
off anyone.

Water fountains in the park lose water pressure when someone
flushes because they are using potable (drinking) water for
the toilets and don't have properly sized supply pipes or a
pressure tank.

Anthony

"NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> Helen Harrand wrote:
> > "NYC XYZ" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> > There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
> > Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
> > that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are
heat
> > stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
> > Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
> > multiply inside of you and make you sick.
> >
> > Don't eat this stuff.
> >
> > helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)
>
>
> Well, how about frozen pastries, then, like my two giant boxes of
> tiramisu?

Tiramisu has milk products in it. The first experiments in microbiology
were done in a broth solution. Milk and beef broth are pretty close to
being PERFECT growing media for a lot of nasty stuff.


>
> Oh, how I hate to see good food go bad! What a waste...tsk, tsk....

I'm there with you on this but I HATE having food poisoning more

>
> How about something like beef jerky, which I'm snacking on right now?
> For some reason, the maker suggested refrigerating even unopened
> packages (the things arrived in the mail boxed in dry ice!) of it.

I would imagine that jerky would be ok. To live you need water and jerky is
pretty dessicated and highly salted typically. Both work to act against
contamination.


>
> Thanks, Helen. I'm pretty sure I won't eat anything else. =)
>
> But I have to say that I've had no problems yet from the KFC!! Unless
> I'm just going to slowly go mad or live two years less or lose internet
> access or something.... ;->
>

ARGTHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! You ATE IT??????????? I will say a prayer to the
microbio gods for you. Let us know how you feel tomorrow. It will
*probably* hit you tonight.

take care and stop messing about w/your health!

helen

Anthony Matonak > wrote
> NYC XYZ wrote
>> Anthony Matonak wrote

>>> Water is easier to clean up than food because it's much less
>>> complex. Even so, it often requires multiple steps, lots of energy and the final
>>> product is not allowed to be sold for human consumption.

>> Why not, if it's really clean? Just who or what uses recycled water, then?

> It's used mostly for irrigation.

Nope, some citys like London and Singapore use it domestically.

And those that get their water supply from rivers, as most inland
towns do, end up with a significant amount of recycled water too.

> Plants actually grow better with a little sewage.

> It's not used for human consumption

Fraid it is.

> mainly because people object to drinking sewage, not for any health reasons. That said,
> there is a tiny but real chance that something might get through the processing somehow.

True of water that isnt recycled too.

> It's just not worth taking the chance.

Tell that to the water authoritys in most citys.

grappletech > wrote:

>I saw some media footage of KFC. They buy chickens that are raised in
>horribly unsterile and cruel conditions. Packed like sardines in filthy,
>feces covered, cages. They can't run around freely (because it burns off
>fat). They're given so much growth hormones that they can't even walk
>because their breast meat is too fat. Workers shown callously stepping on
>chickens and breaking their legs while throwing them into trucks to take to
>the slaughterhouse. Many birth defects and deformities. Disgusting. I'd
>rather get my protein through beans or soy. Don't go to KFC.

I smell PETA. Think I'll buy some KFC today to celebrate. Yumm.

wrote:
> grappletech > wrote:
>
> >I saw some media footage of KFC. They buy chickens that are raised in
> >horribly unsterile and cruel conditions. Packed like sardines in filthy,
> >feces covered, cages. They can't run around freely (because it burns off
> >fat). They're given so much growth hormones that they can't even walk
> >because their breast meat is too fat. Workers shown callously stepping on
> >chickens and breaking their legs while throwing them into trucks to take to
> >the slaughterhouse. Many birth defects and deformities. Disgusting. I'd
> >rather get my protein through beans or soy. Don't go to KFC.
>
> I smell PETA. Think I'll buy some KFC today to celebrate. Yumm.

Popeye's is better.

Better yet, when leg 1/4s go on sale cheap you can render down the fat
to get grease to fry the chicken in. Chicken fried in its own fat.
Mmmmm.

It reminds me of: Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26 and Deuteronomy 14:21,
Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

--Bryan

BOBOBOnoBO® > wrote:
> wrote:
>> grappletech > wrote:
>>
>>> I saw some media footage of KFC. They buy chickens that are raised
>>> in horribly unsterile and cruel conditions. Packed like sardines
>>> in filthy, feces covered, cages. They can't run around freely
>>> (because it burns off fat). They're given so much growth hormones
>>> that they can't even walk because their breast meat is too fat.
>>> Workers shown callously stepping on chickens and breaking their
>>> legs while throwing them into trucks to take to the slaughterhouse.
>>> Many birth defects and deformities. Disgusting. I'd rather get my
>>> protein through beans or soy. Don't go to KFC.
>>
>> I smell PETA. Think I'll buy some KFC today to celebrate. Yumm.
>
> Popeye's is better.
>
> Better yet, when leg 1/4s go on sale cheap you can render down the fat
> to get grease to fry the chicken in. Chicken fried in its own fat.
> Mmmmm.
>
> It reminds me of: Exodus 23:19, Exodus 34:26 and Deuteronomy 14:21,
> Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Isnt canabalism illegal in the US ?

>>>You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
>>>> > alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
>>>> >
>>>> > Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
>>>> > anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
>>>> > would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
>>>> > tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
>>>> > smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
>>>> > all the bad stuff.
>>>> >
>>>> > N.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except the
>>> peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local utility
>>> company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists and proofs
>>> of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so I guess I'd
>>> feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....
>>>
>>> I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
>>> these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
>>> introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
>>> when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
>>> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
>>> corpses??
>>>
>
>
> There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
> Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
> that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are heat
> stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
> Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
> multiply inside of you and make you sick.
>
> Don't eat this stuff.
>
> helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)


Sugar is a preservative. Salt is a preservative. Lots of both in
KFC. That coated rubber chicken probably has an unrefrigerated
shelf life of a month.

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Why not, if it's really clean? Just who or what uses recycled water,
> then?

some parks in southern california use "reclaimed" water. dunno how that
differs from "recycled"

NYC XYZ wrote:
> But I have to say that I've had no problems yet from the KFC!! Unless
> I'm just going to slowly go mad or live two years less or lose internet
> access or something.... ;->

foodborne illnesses can take up to a week. by that time, most people
cant recall what it was that they ate that made them sick

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 19:44:28 GMT, Al Smith >
wrote:

>>>>You're nutz. I wouldn't touch refrigerated chicken after 4 days, let
>>>>> > alone 8 without. I hope you don't get sick.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Peanut butter and jelly should be fine (I never refrigerate p. butter,
>>>>> > anyway, and jelly is mostly sugar). Everything else on your list I
>>>>> > would toss without a second glance. You shouldn't need food science to
>>>>> > tell you that you shouldn't eat that stuff - it can taste alright and
>>>>> > smell alright and kill you - as in botulism. No, cooking won't destroy
>>>>> > all the bad stuff.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > N.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm fine, no problem at all! But I've tossed everything out except the
>>>> peanut butter and jams. I'm not afraid, but ConEd (the local utility
>>>> company) is waiving its usual requirement of itemized lists and proofs
>>>> of purchase for customer reimbursement of spoiled food, so I guess I'd
>>>> feel a bit guilty claiming money while chomping away....
>>>>
>>>> I'm still curious about the science of food spoilage. Just why can't
>>>> these germs be killed? Why couldn't any chemical (toxic) changes they
>>>> introduce to the food be neutralized? I mean, just how do they do it
>>>> when recycling water? Is food just much too complicated by comparison?
>>>> And how come animals in the wild don't get sick eating rotting
>>>> corpses??
>>>>
>>
>>
>> There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
>> Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
>> that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are heat
>> stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
>> Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
>> multiply inside of you and make you sick.
>>
>> Don't eat this stuff.
>>
>> helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)
>
>
>Sugar is a preservative. Salt is a preservative. Lots of both in
>KFC. That coated rubber chicken probably has an unrefrigerated
>shelf life of a month.


Of course..the Twinkie still leads in shelf life.

Gunner



"If I'm going to reach out to the the Democrats then I need a third
hand.There's no way I'm letting go of my wallet or my gun while they're
around."

"Democrat. In the dictionary it's right after demobilize and right
before demode` (out of fashion).
-Buddy Jordan 2001

NYC XYZ wrote:
> OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!
>
> Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!

Good site to view in the future. I use it often:
http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome

USDA, has a lot of good info on food safety

v\r
Jim

<snip>

> >>>
> >
> >
> > There are two types of food poisoning intoxication and infection.
> > Intoxication is when the bacteria produces a toxin and you get sick from
> > that. Not all toxins are heat lable, ie destroyed by heat. Some are
heat
> > stable. In short, heating does NOT mean that everything is destroyed.
> > Infection is when you ingest the bacteria or whatever and it proceeds to
> > multiply inside of you and make you sick.
> >
> > Don't eat this stuff.
> >
> > helen (retired ex. chef w/a microbiology degree)
>
>
> Sugar is a preservative. Salt is a preservative. Lots of both in
> KFC. That coated rubber chicken probably has an unrefrigerated
> shelf life of a month.

I'm going to let *you* test that theory!

helen

peanut butter? oh very good

"Al Bundy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
...opened peanut butter and jam...hmmm!!

jim wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
> > OMG, the KFC buffalo wings in my 'fridge taste just fine!
> >
> > Hope I don't have the runs later...LOLOLOLOL!!!
>
> Good site to view in the future. I use it often:
> http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/usdahome
>
> USDA, has a lot of good info on food safety
>
> v\r
> Jim


Thanks for the ref -- and thanks to everybody for your thoughts and
experiences!

Interestingly, that USDA site has a FAQ which mirrors EVERYTHING
everyone's said -- you probably won't get sick eating spoiled food, but
it's also very possible for something to be spoiled and look, taste,
and smell perfectly fine!

So, besides the opened peanut butter and jam and unopened beef jerky,
I've tossed everything out. Still feeling fine, five days after
gobbling the unrefrigerated four-day old KFC boneless Hot Wings! =)

But someone on another newsgroup had mentioned that "[spoiled] peanuts,
or anything [spoiled] with peanut in it" can have "only...a tiny dose
of aflatoxin-B - like *one* mouldy peanut - to give you liver cancer a
few years down the road"....

????

Bob wrote:

> "NYC XYZ" > wrote:
>
>>But someone on another newsgroup had mentioned that "[spoiled] peanuts,
>>or anything [spoiled] with peanut in it" can have "only...a tiny dose
>>of aflatoxin-B - like *one* mouldy peanut - to give you liver cancer a
>>few years down the road"....
>
> Yes. But when you buy peanut butter or roasted peanuts, the peanuts
> have been "cooked" (roasted). The cooking does little to any toxin
> that is present, but it does mean that there should be no mold left.
> So storage of roasted peanut products does not result in an increase
> of the toxin. (Some people think that the killing of the mold may not
> be complete, so perhaps this is not absolute.) Remember, it is normal
> to store peanut products -- even after opening -- at room temperature.
>
> Storage of uncooked peanuts is a bigger concern, and should be
> avoided. Similarly, it is probably best to avoid getting peanut butter
> from stores that roast and make their own. The big manufacturers of
> peanut butter have worked out procedures and do thorough testing to
> keep aflatoxin low, but a small store isn't going to do that -- and
> you can’t tell by looking at it.

And it doesn't even taste better than the commercial product :-( I just
bought some made-on-the-spot PB from the Whole Foods Market. Not
anywhere near as good as the "Natural" store-brand peanut butter Ralph's
(possibly Kroger elsewhere) sells, which is the best peanut butter I've
ever eaten.

--
Cheers,
Bev
*******************************************
"I've learned that you can keep puking long
after you think you're finished." -- SL

The Real Bev wrote:
> Bob wrote:
> ... Similarly, it is probably best to avoid getting peanut butter
>> from stores that roast and make their own.
>
> And it doesn't even taste better than the commercial product :-( I just
> bought some made-on-the-spot PB from the Whole Foods Market. Not
> anywhere near as good as the "Natural" store-brand peanut butter Ralph's
> (possibly Kroger elsewhere) sells, which is the best peanut butter I've
> ever eaten.

I'm not sure that Whole Foods roasts the peanuts themselves. It's
much more likely they are using pre-roasted peanuts and simply
grinding it themselves.

Ralphs peanut butter may simply have more sugar. Places that grind
the peanut butter on the spot often leave out the sugar.

Anthony

Anthony Matonak wrote:

> The Real Bev wrote:
>> Bob wrote:
>> ... Similarly, it is probably best to avoid getting peanut butter
>>> from stores that roast and make their own.
>>
>> And it doesn't even taste better than the commercial product :-( I just
>> bought some made-on-the-spot PB from the Whole Foods Market. Not
>> anywhere near as good as the "Natural" store-brand peanut butter Ralph's
>> (possibly Kroger elsewhere) sells, which is the best peanut butter I've
>> ever eaten.
>
> I'm not sure that Whole Foods roasts the peanuts themselves.

They probably don't. They just have a hopper full of nuts that feed
down to into the grinder.

> It's
> much more likely they are using pre-roasted peanuts and simply
> grinding it themselves.

We made some ourselves with $2/lb "fried" redskin peanuts from the
ethnic produce market and a blender. Had to add some oil to make it
work. Stuff had a nice texture but wasn't better than Ralph's.

> Ralphs peanut butter may simply have more sugar. Places that grind
> the peanut butter on the spot often leave out the sugar.

No sugar. This is the 'Laura Scudder's' peanuts+salt stir-it-up kind.
Sugar definitely improves the taste, but there's always honey...

"To avoid oil separation, refrigerate after stirring." Has anybody ever
kept a jar of peanut butter around long enough for that to happen?

--
Cheers,
Bev
66666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 6
"I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces
and join their hellish crusade." -- Clarice