Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
making it once I get the spice packs?)

Thank you.

HarryTruman

On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:

>Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
>see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
>'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
>making it once I get the spice packs?)

Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was Cute-poet-chick's
criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and GoldStar. I think she
acheived this by "mashing" it up after it browned, but I'm not sure.

serene
--
Kissing Hank's Ass is 10 years old! http://jhuger.com/kisshank
My personal blog: http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
My new cooking blog: http://serenecooking.livejournal.com

wrote:
> Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
> see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
> 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
> making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
Why would you want to? Cincinatti chili is an out and out fake. Mash
hamburger with a potato masher while sprinkling in some water to get
that so-called "consistency" they think is special, then add (too
little of) any generic chili powder and some (any is too much of)
cinammon, and you've got it. Come back and ask about real chili some
time. (I'm as far removed from a Texan as anyone could be, but even I
know that Cincinatti chili is an oxymoron.) -aem

On Mon, 31 Jul 2006 19:29:40 -0700, Serene >
wrote:

>On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:
>
>>Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
>>see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
>>'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
>>making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
>Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was Cute-poet-chick's
>criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and GoldStar. I think she
>acheived this by "mashing" it up after it browned, but I'm not sure.

That's what I do for tacos. Cook the hamburger, then use a potato
masher on it.

Carol

> Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
> see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
> 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
> making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
> Thank you.
>
> HarryTruman
>

My husband was born on the outskirts of Cincinnati and he still has many
relatives in the Dayton area. Frozen Skyline chili not available to you I
assume? I've been told that it's the same stuff that is served in the
Skyline Chili Parlors.

Cincinnati chili is almost as controversial as Texas chili along with many
rules. First of all you MUST use the thick spaghetti, not thin spaghetti or
vermicelli. Many other rules also.

Here is one of my husband's family recipes which admittedly does break some
of the rules. Normally a recipe for Cincinnati Chili contains chocolate,
but this one does not.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Three Way (Cincinnati) Chili

Recipe By :Roger Marksberry
Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :3:00
Categories : Hamburger Main Dish
Pasta

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
4 pounds ground chuck
4 large onions -- chopped
12 ounces tomato paste
10 cups water
2 teaspoons cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1 tablespoon black pepper
2 tablespoons hot chili powder
1 tablespoon allspice
2 tablespoons salt -- we use one
6 bay leaves
1 tablespoon vinegar
4 teaspoons worcestershire sauce
1 tablespoon tabasco sauce

Lightly brown meat and onions - mix in all other ingredients - slowly cook
for three hours uncovered. Add extra water if needed.

Serve over thin spaghetti - top with grated cheese - have oyster crackers.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

> * Exported from MasterCook *
>
> Three Way (Cincinnati) Chili
>
> Recipe By :Roger Marksberry
> Serving Size : 16 Preparation Time :3:00
> Categories : Hamburger Main Dish
> Pasta
>
> Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
> -------- ------------ --------------------------------
> 4 pounds ground chuck
> 4 large onions -- chopped
> 12 ounces tomato paste
> 10 cups water
> 2 teaspoons cinnamon
> 1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
> 1 tablespoon black pepper
> 2 tablespoons hot chili powder
> 1 tablespoon allspice
> 2 tablespoons salt -- we use one
> 6 bay leaves
> 1 tablespoon vinegar
> 4 teaspoons worcestershire sauce
> 1 tablespoon tabasco sauce
>
> Lightly brown meat and onions - mix in all other ingredients - slowly cook
> for three hours uncovered. Add extra water if needed.
>
> Serve over thin spaghetti - top with grated cheese - have oyster crackers.


That sounds interesting but is *six* bay leaves right? That sounds a
bit overpowering.

"Serene" > wrote in message
...
> On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:
>
> >Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
> >see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
> >'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
> >making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
> Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was Cute-poet-chick's
> criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and GoldStar. I think she
> acheived this by "mashing" it up after it browned, but I'm not sure.
>
> serene


If you add water to the beef and stir (a cup or so per lb of ground beef)
and THEN cook you get the finely textured beef.

helen

In article . com>,
"aem" > wrote:

> wrote:
> > Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
> > see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
> > 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
> > making it once I get the spice packs?)
> >
> Why would you want to?

I assume that the OP has eaten Cincinnati chili and liked it. I presume
that is why he wants to make it.

>Cincinatti chili is an out and out fake.

Fake what? Fake Texas chili? That makes about as much sense as claiming
that Texas chili is fake Cincinnati chili. As far as I know neither is
imitating anything.

>Mash hamburger with a potato masher while sprinkling in some water to
>get that so-called "consistency" they think is special, then add (too
> little of) any generic chili powder and some (any is too much of)
> cinammon, and you've got it.

If that is how you make Cincinnati chili I'm not surprised that you
don't like it.

>Come back and ask about real chili some time. (I'm as far removed
>from a Texan as anyone could be, but even I know that Cincinatti chili
>is an oxymoron.) -aem

What you seem to be saying is that you don't like Cincinnati chili so
nobody should like Cincinnati chili. Is that the message?

Regards,
Dave W.

Well, I am a certified chili freak.
I was born and raised in SE Texas, and loved all the various kinds of
chili we had.
I later moved to Cincinnati to attend grad school there.
Of course I tried the Skyline Chili, and I loved it.
It is totally different from any chili in Texas, with an entirely
different flavor.
There is no sense in comparing the two.


Darren

> > 6 bay leaves
> That sounds interesting but is *six* bay leaves right? That sounds a
> bit overpowering.
>

Believe the last time I made it I cut the amount of bay leaves down to four.
However, it is a large recipe calling for 4 lbs. of ground chuck so using
six may not be overpowering. Just don't leave out the cinnamon and
allspice! Now that would be a rule <g>. Since it is a large recipe I feel
it could be easily cut in half.

Chris

Serene wrote:
> On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:
>
>> Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
>> see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
>> 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
>> making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
> Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was Cute-poet-chick's
> criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and GoldStar. I think she
> acheived this by "mashing" it up after it browned, but I'm not sure.
>
> serene


I thought the meat and onions were supposed to be *boiled* first. Then
add chili powder, jarred spaghetti sauce, and lots of cinnamon. Serve
over noodles with cheddar cheese, kidney beans, sour cream, etc. (yuck)

Bob

> Well, I am a certified chili freak.
> I was born and raised in SE Texas, and loved all the various kinds of
> chili we had.
> I later moved to Cincinnati to attend grad school there.
> Of course I tried the Skyline Chili, and I loved it.
> It is totally different from any chili in Texas, with an entirely
> different flavor.
> There is no sense in comparing the two.
>
>
> Darren
>

I agree 100%... this is definitely an apples and oranges situation. I'm an
"almost native" of SE Texas, but I do like both Texas Chili and Cincinnati
chili.

Chris
If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion and avoid the
people, you might better stay home.- James Michener

"Chris Marksberry" > wrote in
:

>> Well, I am a certified chili freak.
>> I was born and raised in SE Texas, and loved all the various kinds of
>> chili we had.
>> I later moved to Cincinnati to attend grad school there.
>> Of course I tried the Skyline Chili, and I loved it.
>> It is totally different from any chili in Texas, with an entirely
>> different flavor.
>> There is no sense in comparing the two.
>>
>>
>> Darren
>>
>
> I agree 100%... this is definitely an apples and oranges situation.
> I'm an "almost native" of SE Texas, but I do like both Texas Chili and
> Cincinnati chili.
>
> Chris
> If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion and
> avoid the people, you might better stay home.- James Michener


Which chili contains chocolate? Me thinks Cincinnati?

Andy

In article >,
zxcvbob > wrote:

> Serene wrote:
> > On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:
> >
> >> Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
> >> see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
> >> 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
> >> making it once I get the spice packs?)
> >
> > Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was Cute-poet-chick's
> > criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and GoldStar. I think she
> > acheived this by "mashing" it up after it browned, but I'm not sure.
> >
> > serene
>
>
> I thought the meat and onions were supposed to be *boiled* first.

Yeah, that is a pretty common way to do it. Besides cooking (boiling)
the meat and onions, fresh finely diced onions are served over the
finished product. One of my sisters does it that way. I always fry the
beef first and remove a bit of the grease before adding water (about a
quart for 2 lbs of beef). I often have to add water later to keep it
from drying out.

>Then add chili powder, jarred spaghetti sauce, and lots of cinnamon.

Never heard of using jarred spaghetti sauce. Maybe it would taste ok.
Cinnamon? Most recipes I've seen don't seem to use a whole lot. Mine
calls for a teaspoon. And there is a handful of other ingredients.

>Serve over noodles with cheddar cheese, kidney beans, sour cream, etc.
(yuck)

Spaghetti, not noodles. And I've never heard of sour cream on Cincy
chili ... that sounds yucky to me too!

Oh, and when I was a kid (I was nine years old when the original Skyline
opened ... it was two blocks up the street) kidney beans were the last
option. A 4-way was assumed to be with onions and cheese. You got beans
with a 5-way. Now when I visit town and order a 4-way they ask me if I
want onions or beans. So things are going down-hill. :-(
>
> Bob
Best regards,
Dave

> > I'm an "almost native" of SE Texas, but I do like both Texas Chili and
> > Cincinnati chili.
> >
> > Chris>

Which chili contains chocolate? Me thinks Cincinnati?
>
> Andy
>

Yup Cincinnati chili usually contains chocolate... my recipe (that has been
handed down through my husband's family does not). If you a web search on
Cincinnati chili you'll find most do include chocolate. My Dayton, Ohio
BIL's recipe contains it.

I was watching the Bobby Flay "Throwdown" on Food TV (taped in Houston)and
he made a comment that he thought the addition of chocolate in chili recipes
(any chili) was a good thing.

Chris

"Chris Marksberry" > wrote

> I was watching the Bobby Flay "Throwdown" on Food TV (taped in Houston)and
> he made a comment that he thought the addition of chocolate in chili
> recipes
> (any chili) was a good thing.

He also thinks every single thing is better with honey in it,
too, and I don't buy that, either.

nancy

zxcvbob wrote:

> Serene wrote:
> > On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:
> >
> > > Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar;
> > > don't see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get
> > > to the 'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any
> > > suggestions on making it once I get the spice packs?)
> >
> > Make sure the beef is really fine-textured. That was
> > Cute-poet-chick's criterion, and she grew up on Skyline and
> > GoldStar. I think she acheived this by "mashing" it up after it
> > browned, but I'm not sure.
> >
> > serene
>
>
> I thought the meat and onions were supposed to be boiled first. Then
> add chili powder, jarred spaghetti sauce, and lots of cinnamon.
> Serve over noodles with cheddar cheese, kidney beans, sour cream,
> etc. (yuck)

They boiled the hamburger on America's Test Kitchen, that was to make
it turn into long strings of beef. Seemed weird, but the end result
didn't look too bad.




Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

On 31 Jul 2006 19:28:01 -0700, wrote:

>Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
>see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
>'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
>making it once I get the spice packs?)
>
>Thank you.
>
>HarryTruman

Here is a recipe for Cincinnati Chili.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Cincinnati Chili

Recipe By :Tony Wilson
Serving Size : 8 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Main Dishes

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
2 pounds beef ground, extra lean, R-T-C
1 teaspoon chili powder
4 medium onions -- chopped
2 cloves garlic -- minced
1 tablespoon salt
1 1/2 tablespoons vinegar
6 ounces tomato paste
1 teaspoon cinnamon
1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce
1 teaspoon parsley sprigs
1 teaspoon oregano
1 teaspoon cumin
1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
1 quart water
6 bay leaf -- * see note
1 tablespoon allspice berries -- * see note
4 red peppers -- * see note

Simmer beef, onions, salt & garlic just until red color is gone. Drain
off fat. Add rest of ingredients and simmer 3 hours.

Serve over spaghetti
3 way -- add beans
4 way -- add onions
5 way -- add cheese, served with oyster crackers




NOTES : Tie in cheesecloth bag. OR USE
6 bay leaves
1 teaspoon ground allspice
1 teaspoon red pepper flakes


--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

"Chris Marksberry" > wrote in message
...
>
>> > I'm an "almost native" of SE Texas, but I do like both Texas Chili and
>> > Cincinnati chili.
>> >
>> > Chris>
>
> Which chili contains chocolate? Me thinks Cincinnati?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>
> Yup Cincinnati chili usually contains chocolate... my recipe (that has
> been
> handed down through my husband's family does not). If you a web search on
> Cincinnati chili you'll find most do include chocolate. My Dayton, Ohio
> BIL's recipe contains it.
>
> I was watching the Bobby Flay "Throwdown" on Food TV (taped in Houston)and
> he made a comment that he thought the addition of chocolate in chili
> recipes
> (any chili) was a good thing.
>
> Chris
>
>

I've actually added some cocoa powder to my (southwestern-
style) chili recipe. If you don't use too much, it adds a subtle, and
desirable, undertone to the end product.

writes:
>Well, I am a certified chili freak.
>I was born and raised in SE Texas, and loved all the various kinds of
>chili we had.
>I later moved to Cincinnati to attend grad school there.
>Of course I tried the Skyline Chili, and I loved it.
>It is totally different from any chili in Texas, with an entirely
>different flavor.
>There is no sense in comparing the two.

A sensible opinion :-), I see.

Cincinnati chili is a Greek-style meat sauce served over spaghetti
or hot dogs. It is not, and never was intended to be, a replacement
for Texas chili, chili con carne, etc. It is a completely different
food item; some people love it, some hate it.

To get hung up on the name is ridiculous. It's been years since
I said this in this newsgroup, but you could call it Alpo (tm)
and that doesn't change the fact that it is still great food.

zxcvbob > writes:
>I thought the meat and onions were supposed to be *boiled* first. Then
>add chili powder, jarred spaghetti sauce, and lots of cinnamon. Serve
>over noodles with cheddar cheese, kidney beans, sour cream, etc. (yuck)

No, not sour cream. I'd agree with the yuk on that one.

Three things, as far as I'm concerned, define Cincinnati chili.
Boiled (rather, simmered) beef, for a fine texture. I refrigerate
overnight to remove excess fat. Greek-style spices: cinnamon,
allspice, paprika. The third is unsweetened chocolate, or cocoa
powder.

Lots of recipes are nothing more than a garden-variety chili con
carne with cinnamon added. As far as I'm concerned, that's not
Cincinnati chili.

In fact, in the Cincinnati area, there's only one restaurant I recall
that uses chiles at all (Empress -- you can see the dried red
chiles in their version). Some might use chili powder, but
that's probably not in the Skyline recipe.

"Default User" > writes:
>They boiled the hamburger on America's Test Kitchen, that was to make
>it turn into long strings of beef. Seemed weird, but the end result
>didn't look too bad.

Real Cincinnati chili is very finely textured, and is served over
spaghetti, or as a Coney sauce on hot dogs.

Lots of people dislike that boiling/simmering step, but it's the
best way to get that fine texture.

Of course, if you don't like the fine texture, you wouldn't want
to boil or summer the meat.

One more historical note about Cincinnati chili: it was created
by Greek immigrants, and in some ways is very close to pastitsio,
a Greek dish made with pasta, meat sauce and bechamel.

If you check recipes for Pastitsio...about half or recipes use
nutmeg as the basic flavoring. The other half use cinnamon,
allspice and maybe paprika.

"guy klose" cut to the chase:

> Cincinnati chili is a Greek-style meat sauce served over spaghetti
> or hot dogs. It is not, and never was intended to be, a replacement
> for Texas chili, chili con carne, etc. It is a completely different
> food item; some people love it, some hate it.

<snip>

Th - th - th - that's all, folks.

Felice

guy klose wrote:

> "Default User" > writes:
> > They boiled the hamburger on America's Test Kitchen, that was to
> > make it turn into long strings of beef. Seemed weird, but the end
> > result didn't look too bad.
>
> Real Cincinnati chili is very finely textured, and is served over
> spaghetti, or as a Coney sauce on hot dogs.

What ATK says in their online recipe is, "Add the ground chuck,
stirring vigorously to separate the meat into individual strands."

I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not.

As far as spices, which you mentioned in another message, they listed:

2 tablespoons chili powder
2 teaspoons dried oregano
2 teaspoons cocoa
1 1/2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
1/2 teaspoon ground allspice
1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper





Brian

"Default User" > writes:
>What ATK says in their online recipe is, "Add the ground chuck,
>stirring vigorously to separate the meat into individual strands."

>I'm not sure if that's what you mean or not.

>As far as spices, which you mentioned in another message, they listed:

>2 tablespoons chili powder
>2 teaspoons dried oregano
>2 teaspoons cocoa
>1 1/2 teaspoons ground cinnamon
>1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
>1/2 teaspoon ground allspice
>1/4 teaspoon ground black pepper


I'm a fan of America's Test Kitchen (a.k.a. Cook's Illustrated)
and I subscribe. However, they are not the be-all, end-all
arbiter of authenticity, and it is proved by their telecast
of this particular episode (which I did see).

Kimball made a side of the mouth comment about "even better
than the stuff you get in Cincinnati". I did try the recipe,
and I think it is a good recipe, but it isn't perfect. It
isn't any better than the one I make all the time.

Kimball admitted on the show that when he was on a book-
signing tour in Cincinnati his hosts took him to a chili
place, and that he didn't really care for it (his plain-Jane
Vermont palate shining through, I suppose). So, based on
one experience, that he didn't like, he's going to pass
judgement about "better than Cincinnati"? I don't think
so.

Look...I'm passionate about my Cincinnati chili. I grew
up there. I've had it probably hundreds to thousands of
times, and I've tried creating my best guess at replicating
the brand I feel is best (Skyline). I feel that I'm a
pretty good judge of what makes a good recipe and what
doesn't. I'm striving for perfection, it has been a
lifelong process, and I'm still not there. ATK is okay,
and better than most recipes I've tried. It's a passable
substitute.

Let me give one more anecdote. All the regulars in this
group know that the question comes up once or twice
every year. One time the question was "how do I make
Skyline chili?". Someone responded with the Jane and
Michael Stern recipe, which in my book is a horrid
recipe, and doesn't come close (back in the day, the
Frugal Gourmet's recipe was scarcely better). When I
responded that the Stern recipe wasn't a very good one
and gave the one I was using at the time, the original
poster responded that the Stern recipe was good enough
for them, and that it tasted just like Skyline to
them. Well, you can't really argue with a palate like
that. For me, the coriander, nutmeg and barbecue sauce
in the Stern recipe was bad enough that I dumped an
entire batch. Skyline chili has none of those things,
and I think the flavor of those are distinct enough
to be able to tell the difference.

Guy

guy klose wrote:
> writes:
> >Well, I am a certified chili freak.
> >I was born and raised in SE Texas, and loved all the various kinds of
> >chili we had.
> >I later moved to Cincinnati to attend grad school there.
> >Of course I tried the Skyline Chili, and I loved it.
> >It is totally different from any chili in Texas, with an entirely
> >different flavor.
> >There is no sense in comparing the two.
>
> A sensible opinion :-), I see.
>
> Cincinnati chili is a Greek-style meat sauce served over spaghetti
> or hot dogs. It is not, and never was intended to be, a replacement
> for Texas chili, chili con carne, etc. It is a completely different
> food item; some people love it, some hate it.
>
> To get hung up on the name is ridiculous. [snip]

Yeah, but language is supposed to communicate meaning, food names
included. If I make lasagna and call it chocolate mousse the lasagna
may taste good but I have misled whoever heard me say mousse. This is
not the old argument about so-called 'authenticity,' it's just a plea
to avoid misleading terms. If they called it "Greek style meat sauce
for spaghetti" I'd have no quibble coming (even if I don't like its
taste), but slapping the "chili" label on something it barely resembles
was deceptive, whether intended to be or not. Hence my calling it
"fake." -aem

guy klose wrote:

> "Default User" > writes:
> > What ATK says in their online recipe is, "Add the ground chuck,
> > stirring vigorously to separate the meat into individual strands."

> I'm a fan of America's Test Kitchen (a.k.a. Cook's Illustrated)
> and I subscribe. However, they are not the be-all, end-all
> arbiter of authenticity, and it is proved by their telecast
> of this particular episode (which I did see).

Fair enough. I've had CsC (acronymning on the fly) and it's all right.

> Let me give one more anecdote. All the regulars in this
> group know that the question comes up once or twice
> every year. One time the question was "how do I make
> Skyline chili?". Someone responded with the Jane and
> Michael Stern recipe, which in my book is a horrid
> recipe, and doesn't come close (back in the day, the
> Frugal Gourmet's recipe was scarcely better). When I
> responded that the Stern recipe wasn't a very good one
> and gave the one I was using at the time, the original
> poster responded that the Stern recipe was good enough
> for them, and that it tasted just like Skyline to
> them. Well, you can't really argue with a palate like
> that. For me, the coriander, nutmeg and barbecue sauce
> in the Stern recipe was bad enough that I dumped an
> entire batch. Skyline chili has none of those things,
> and I think the flavor of those are distinct enough
> to be able to tell the difference.

I'm not passionate about it the way you are. On the whole, I prefer my
own chili versions, which are more or less Midwestern standard, but
ramped up a bit in quality. By that I mean that the stuff I make for
myself will usually have: browned ground beef; tomatoes; fresh garlic;
a spice blend of various ground chiles, cumin, oregano, and black
pepper; and beans. The Texas guys aren't much happier with that than
with yours

I sometimes have my chili in a "chili mac" style, on spaghetti with
shredded cheese (I don't do onions). I also like it on rice.

At times I use cubed beef in place of ground, always a good upgrade.
Smoked chuck roast is a good meat base as well.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

<snip>

> > Cincinnati chili is a Greek-style meat sauce served over spaghetti
> > or hot dogs. It is not, and never was intended to be, a replacement
> > for Texas chili, chili con carne, etc. It is a completely different
> > food item; some people love it, some hate it.
> >
> > To get hung up on the name is ridiculous. [snip]
>
> Yeah, but language is supposed to communicate meaning, food names
> included. If I make lasagna and call it chocolate mousse the lasagna
> may taste good but I have misled whoever heard me say mousse. This is
> not the old argument about so-called 'authenticity,' it's just a plea
> to avoid misleading terms. If they called it "Greek style meat sauce
> for spaghetti" I'd have no quibble coming (even if I don't like its
> taste), but slapping the "chili" label on something it barely resembles
> was deceptive, whether intended to be or not. Hence my calling it
> "fake." -aem
>

I don't know why this cracked me up like it did but it did. I'm sitting
here thinking "wraslin's fake".

I'm sooooo strange today

on Date: Mon, Jul 31, 2006, 7:28pm wrote:
Using a "Cincinnati chili spike pack" ( probably from Goldstar; don't
see any available on Skyline's site ) how close can you get to the
'authentic' taste of Cincinnati Chili? (And ... any suggestions on
making it once I get the spice packs?)
Thank you.
HarryTruman
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tip gave to me years back working for Greeks is to soak your hamburger
in very cold water for @ least 2 hours drain and use a potato masher
while browning.

"Default User" > writes:
>I'm not passionate about it the way you are. On the whole, I prefer my
>own chili versions, which are more or less Midwestern standard, but
>ramped up a bit in quality. By that I mean that the stuff I make for
>myself will usually have: browned ground beef; tomatoes; fresh garlic;
>a spice blend of various ground chiles, cumin, oregano, and black
>pepper; and beans. The Texas guys aren't much happier with that than
>with yours

>I sometimes have my chili in a "chili mac" style, on spaghetti with
>shredded cheese (I don't do onions). I also like it on rice.

>At times I use cubed beef in place of ground, always a good upgrade.
>Smoked chuck roast is a good meat base as well.



>Brian

I'm exactly the same way...I just don't get hung up on calling each
of them chili.

One of my in-laws, assuming that my passion for Cincinnati chili
meant that I was an overall chili zealot, bought me a chili cookbook
(I really like the cookbook, I'm just not an overall chili zealot)
and I've had great fun working my way through many different
chili recipes. Of the regular, Texas Red variety chili, I really
like the basic chiles (dried and otherwise), onions and cubed
chuck (I normally buy a chuck roast and dice it fairly small).
That's probably my favorite, and I might have some rice and/or
beans on the side.

In terms of mid-America, Betty Crocker style chili con carne, I've
been known to have that with some crushed tortilla chips and
maybe some diced onion and cheese. Given my mood, I might even
eat that over spaghetti.

I guess I really only have two hangups: one is that I feel
there are certain things, which I've described, which make
Cincinnati chili authentic. The second, of course, is that I
think one shouldn't get all hung up on the name...while Texans
might feel otherwise, they don't really have a trademark on
the name "chili". It's too generic of a term, as far as I'm
concerned.

Guy

(ms. tonya) writes:
>Tip gave to me years back working for Greeks is to soak your hamburger
>in very cold water for @ least 2 hours drain and use a potato masher
>while browning.

That sounds, to me, like it would work pretty well. I will simmer
beef in water (only for Cincinnati chili, not for anything else!)
for about a half hour. It ends up looking unappetizingly grey
afterwards. Refrigerate overnight, and pull off the grease layer
on the top.

(I don't add spices before refrigerating, because some spices are
fat soluble, and good flavor would be pulled off with the fat layer)

"aem" > writes:
>Yeah, but language is supposed to communicate meaning, food names
>included. If I make lasagna and call it chocolate mousse the lasagna
>may taste good but I have misled whoever heard me say mousse. This is
>not the old argument about so-called 'authenticity,' it's just a plea
>to avoid misleading terms. If they called it "Greek style meat sauce
>for spaghetti" I'd have no quibble coming (even if I don't like its
>taste), but slapping the "chili" label on something it barely resembles
>was deceptive, whether intended to be or not. Hence my calling it
>"fake." -aem

I understand your position (because I've heard it so many times in
the 20 or so years that I've been on usenet) and you are certainly
welcome to your pet peeves (I have my own to nurture). But this
isn't calling lasagna by the name chocolate mousse. When this
stuff was invented (prob. prior to 1922), I don't even know that
the concept of Texas chili was all that widespread at that time.

(although this would be a hotly disputed statement, one cookbook
I read once attributed the origins of chili to Cincinnati --
the non-Greek kind -- and that it travelled to the West via the
river drivers that were heading down the Ohio River)

I can only suppose that the history here is that when this stuff
was invented by Greeks in Cincinnati, they tried to pick a name that
related as closely as possible to something else known at the time.

If you think about it, pasta wasn't even all that popular prior
to WWII in the US.

So, the bottom line is "I don't know." On the other hand, nobody
walks around with trademarks on these names.

Guy

This idea of names reminded me of a Distinct Food Memory (tm) that I
had in the early 70s. This was the first time I had nachos.

I have Wisconsin-based relatives, so in the core of my being, I am a
Cheese Rat. So are my kids, which is kind of funny, in a way.

These Wisconsin relatives always had new and exciting ways of
serving and eating cheese. On one of our trips there, when I was
about 12, one of my uncles asked us if we'd ever had nachos before.
His version, then, was some Doritos (those were the first popular
tortilla chips available, to my knowledge) tossed in the oven with
some shredded cheese.

Since then, on a Food Network show, they've attributed the origins of
nachos to a Texas college football stadium (I can't remember if it
was UT or A&M) where the "nuclear orange" cheese sauce was served
over tortilla chips.

I've always preferred my uncle's version over the nuclear cheese
sauce version, but I'd have to admit, I far prefer any kind of
nachos served in just about any restaurant today, loaded with
salsa, shredded chicked or chili, sliced jalapenos, etc.

Food evolves, I guess, sometimes for the better.

guy klose wrote:
> "aem" > writes:
> >Yeah, but language is supposed to communicate meaning, food names
> >included. If I make lasagna and call it chocolate mousse the lasagna
> >may taste good but I have misled whoever heard me say mousse. This is
> >not the old argument about so-called 'authenticity,' it's just a plea
> >to avoid misleading terms. If they called it "Greek style meat sauce
> >for spaghetti" I'd have no quibble coming (even if I don't like its
> >taste), but slapping the "chili" label on something it barely resembles
> >was deceptive, whether intended to be or not. Hence my calling it
> >"fake." -aem
>
> I understand your position (because I've heard it so many times in
> the 20 or so years that I've been on usenet) and you are certainly
> welcome to your pet peeves (I have my own to nurture). But this
> isn't calling lasagna by the name chocolate mousse. When this
> stuff was invented (prob. prior to 1922), I don't even know that
> the concept of Texas chili was all that widespread at that time.
>
> (although this would be a hotly disputed statement, one cookbook
> I read once attributed the origins of chili to Cincinnati --
> the non-Greek kind -- and that it travelled to the West via the
> river drivers that were heading down the Ohio River) [snip]

[white flag is hoisted from the trench and begins to wave slowly back
and forth]
On due consideration I believe my lexicological pickiness is misplaced,
and that Cincinatti chili is just as valid a name for that dish as
Texas chili is for the other dish. I will continue to believe that
specific recipes with well-established names shouldn't be seriously
altered unless you change the name but that is not the case here. -aem

aem wrote:


> [white flag is hoisted from the trench and begins to wave slowly back
> and forth]
> On due consideration I believe my lexicological pickiness is
> misplaced, and that Cincinatti chili is just as valid a name for that
> dish as Texas chili is for the other dish. I will continue to
> believe that specific recipes with well-established names shouldn't
> be seriously altered unless you change the name but that is not the
> case here. -aem

Awww, huggles all around. Let's all have some nice white bean chicken
chili and relax.



Brian

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

"aem" > writes:
>[white flag is hoisted from the trench and begins to wave slowly back
>and forth]
>On due consideration I believe my lexicological pickiness is misplaced,
>and that Cincinatti chili is just as valid a name for that dish as
>Texas chili is for the other dish. I will continue to believe that
>specific recipes with well-established names shouldn't be seriously
>altered unless you change the name but that is not the case here. -aem

I'm sorry if I was coming across as a jerk, which was not my intention.
I have strong feelings about Cincinnati chili, which probably comes
across as rather strange to some.

This thread on CC does come across frequently, and I've always thought
it's okay to hate it. But I've never understood hating it because
of the name. There have too many stories along the lines of "I
went to Cincinnati, I heard they were famous for the chili, and
when I tried some, I hated it...that's not real chili!"

There are all kinds of regional names to a variety of
different foods. Alton Brown, for example, just did an episode on
chicken fried steak, and I never knew there was such variation on
something so simple. Geez...barbecue/bbq/whatever has so many
regional variations, and elicits (I feel) much more passion than
anything I can muster for CC. Texans love their brisket, in Memphis
or KC, it's the ribs, and in NC it's the pulled pork. I think
those arguments are also complete garbage, because no matter
what is what, it's all great food! To me, I'd die happy if I
were in a meat coma induced by a plate of brisket, ribs and pulled
pork!

BTW, for a background on chili, I found the Wikipedia pages on
chili and Cincinnati chili are pretty informative. The recipe,
however, for Cincinnati chili (which comes from Gourmet Magazine)
is complete garbage.

Guy

On 4 Aug 2006 08:04:54 -0700, "rosie" > wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>> > That's what I do for tacos. Cook the hamburger, then use a potato
>> masher on it.
>
> Carol. I simmer the ground beef in water, then use the water, sans
>grease, to make the sauce. the meat , if you still a lot will be very
>fine pieces.

Sounds like a plan to me!

Carol

In article >, guy klose >
wrote:

> "aem" > writes:
> >[white flag is hoisted from the trench and begins to wave slowly back
> >and forth]
> >On due consideration I believe my lexicological pickiness is misplaced,
> >and that Cincinatti chili is just as valid a name for that dish as
> >Texas chili is for the other dish. I will continue to believe that
> >specific recipes with well-established names shouldn't be seriously
> >altered unless you change the name but that is not the case here. -aem
>
> I'm sorry if I was coming across as a jerk, which was not my intention.
> I have strong feelings about Cincinnati chili, which probably comes
> across as rather strange to some.
>
<snip>
>
> Guy

Yeah ... my response to aem was pretty snotty too. Sorry, aem. Please
accept my apologies.

All Cincinnatians are not jerks. Just me and Guy. ;-)

But, seriously, sometimes its hard to disagree without being
disagreeable. :-(

Best regards,
Dave W.

Dave W wrote:
> In article >, guy klose >
> wrote:
>
> > "aem" > writes:
> > >[white flag is hoisted from the trench and begins to wave slowly back
> > >and forth]
> > >On due consideration I believe my lexicological pickiness is misplaced,
> > >and that Cincinatti chili is just as valid a name for that dish as
> > >Texas chili is for the other dish. I will continue to believe that
> > >specific recipes with well-established names shouldn't be seriously
> > >altered unless you change the name but that is not the case here. -aem
> >
> > I'm sorry if I was coming across as a jerk, which was not my intention.
> > I have strong feelings about Cincinnati chili, which probably comes
> > across as rather strange to some.
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > Guy
>
> Yeah ... my response to aem was pretty snotty too. Sorry, aem. Please
> accept my apologies.
>
Apologies for what? You guys are weird. I made a snotty, fairly
uninformed, post, you guys posted somewhat more informed snotty
replies. So what else is new? Never apologize. -aem