Mxsmanic > wrote:

>Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
>> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that
>> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs
>> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and
>> then seek the experiences you can have at home?
>
>The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an
>excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub.

I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work
in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no
Irish staff at all.

The main reason for running an Irish pub abroad is that it tends to be
a profitable venture.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

"Zox" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Hello coffee addicts,
>
> I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France
> and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked.

Does anyone get the feeling that Cathy and Bill may be back?

Ian

Runge wowed us with:

> He is a little excited, waiting for Jacqueline to appear


I expect that the poor little lovebird is tired, you out pimping her night
after night and all...

--
Best
Greg


>
> "Michel Boucher" > a écrit dans le message de news:
> ...
> > "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in
> > news > >
> >>> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit
> >>> > down...???
> >>>
> >>> More than what?
> >>
> >> More than those patrons who stand at the counter...???
> >
> > I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just
> > feeling playful tonight?
> >
> > --
> >
> > "At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
> > is a revolutionary act."
> >
> > George Orwell
>
>

Ian F. wrote:

> "Zox" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
> > Hello coffee addicts,
> >
> > I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France
> > and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked.
>
> Does anyone get the feeling that Cathy and Bill may be back?
>


Maybe we'll be treated to a whirlwind "All the Starbucks in Europe in 21
Days!" tour...with snaps no less!

--
Best
Greg

Craig Welch writes:

> It doesn't cause lung cancer. It is associated with a higher risk of
> lung cancer. That's not the same thing.

Correlation is not causation, true. But the most likely reason for
the correlation is that smoking causes lung cancer. About 95% of lung
cancers occur in smokers (the rest are associated with radon
exposure). Even asbestos is not too much of an issue as long as it is
not associated with smoking (although it's best to avoid asbestos, of
course).

> Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a
> 'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where
> people smoke.

If you smoke, don't go where smoking is not allowed, or don't smoke
when you go there.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Craig Welch writes:

> You're encouraging this jerk to complain, and to threaten litigation,
> because a Starbucks employee encouraged him to act in a dignified way?

It depends on how the employee behaved.

More importantly, whenever one disagrees with a policy, complaints
should go to the U.S. headquarters for an American chain, not to local
franchise holders, as the latter may simply ignore the complaint
unless they are under pressure from the U.S. The U.S. headquarters
can be pressured by showing how they might incur liability through the
actions of their subsidiary (or by showing potential negative
publicity); American companies are no more moral than a robot and mu$t
be pre$$ured in other way$ before they will act.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Following up to "Zox" > :

> I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair,
>which, i

Ignorant American oik.
--
Tim C.

Padraig Breathnach writes:

> I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work
> in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no
> Irish staff at all.

They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs.

People in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk, and that type of
drinking is well adapted to a pub. People in Southern Europe usually
drink for other reasons and only become drunk incidentally (if at
all), and that is better adapted to other venues, such as restaurants,
clubs, or other places where the primary product or service is not
based on alcohol.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Craig Welch writes:

> So the Starbucks experience in France is the same as the Starbucks
> experience in the US. Isn't that consistency what people want?

When they are seeking out a specific brand, yes.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Following up to "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" > :

>Why would ANYONE want to drink Starbuck's coffee in
>FRANCE?????? In the U.S., maybe - before they came along,
>restaurant coffee here was like dishwater, and Starbuck's
>popularity did force them to a somewhat higher standard than
>that. (But in France?)
>
>Zox wrote:
>
>> Hello coffee addicts,
>>
>> I've gone to three Starbucks while being a tourist in France
>> and I have to say, 2 out of 3 have sucked.
>
>SFAIK, they ALL do - everywhere!

Ah, but then you've tasted real coffee Evelyn. Something this poor oik will
probably never do.
--
Tim C.

Following up to "Gregory Morrow"
> :

>
>Michel Boucher wrote:
>
>> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote in
>> news >>
>> >> > Do the Starbucks in Rome charge more for patrons who wish to sit
>> >> > down...???
>> >>
>> >> More than what?
>> >
>> > More than those patrons who stand at the counter...???
>>
>> I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just
>> feeling playful tonight?
>
>
>Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks outlets
>in Italy?
>
>;---)


Careful on that tack - you'll have Mixi over redefining what Italy is
before you know it.
--
Tim C.

Following up to Craig Welch > :

>Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a
>'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where
>people smoke.

Some people like to machine-gun playgrounds full of schoolkids before they
shoot themselves. It's a freedom of choice matter with a different
timescale.
--
Tim C.

Mxsmanic > wrote:

>Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
>> I am under the impression that the large majority of people who work
>> in Irish pubs abroad are not Irish, and that many of the pubs have no
>> Irish staff at all.
>
>They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs.
>
Do you mean staff or customers? My experience of Irish pubs overseas
is very limited, as I generally choose to avoid them. That limited
experience suggests to me that the large majority of staff and
customers seem to be locals.

>People in the UK and Ireland drink to get drunk, and that type of
>drinking is well adapted to a pub.
>
While there is some basis for that claim, it is wrong to state it in
the form of a general truth. Some people in the UK and Ireland drink
to get drunk; most don't.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
My travel writing: http://www.iol.ie/~draoi/

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
news
> They seem to have an enormous number of Anglophones in the pubs.

Very few of those now. Everyone seems to have mobiles/cells.

Ian

Tim C. wrote:

> Ignorant American oik.

Is that you Herr Haider, hiding behind Timmy C's name?

Following up to Mxsmanic > :

>Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
>> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that
>> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs
>> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and
>> then seek the experiences you can have at home?
>
>The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an
>excuse for staying in a foreign country. ...
The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to make money for the owners. At
least in my experience in German speaking countries they are frequented
mostly by locals - many of which have been, or want to go to Ireland.
Ireland is a very poplar (non-sun-worshipping) holiday destination amongst
Germans/Austrians. The rest are either British and Irish u who just go
occasionally and are rarely regulars.


>... Anyone can open a pub.

That'S not quite true, and you know it.
--
Tim C.

Joseph Coulter wrote:

> I know I for one would find this behavior to be at least as rude as the
> cigarette smoking Frenchman who at least has cultural habit on his side.

By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker.

sf wrote:

> The French make a fairly decent expresso, but I think their regular
> coffee sucks, so maybe what Starbucks serves is actually prefered by
> the French.

I, like a great many French people, prefer Starbucks
because their espresso is superior to French espresso
and it is a smoke-free establishment where you can
lounge around. And yes, you can put your feet up
if you take off your shoes as I did and I have seen French
people do it. All this "Ugly American" talk is infantile
and boorish.

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:16:44 +0200, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>Dave Frightens Me writes:
>
>> Wouldn't worrying about health be more effective?
>
>Hygiene is an aspect of health.

Indeed, but wouldn't worrying about health be more effective?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 03:18:05 +0200, Mxsmanic >
wrote:

>Padraig Breathnach writes:
>
>> I'll stay neutral on the specific question, but I will comment that
>> most Irish people I know have little inclination to visit Irish pubs
>> overseas. The reasoning is simple: why spend good money to travel and
>> then seek the experiences you can have at home?
>
>The main reason for Irish pubs abroad is to give Irish expats an
>excuse for staying in a foreign country. Anyone can open a pub.

The main reason is to make money. People associate the Irish with
pubs, and so Irish pubs are popular.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> wrote:

>
>Dave Frightens Me wrote:
>
>> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" > wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Dave Frightens Me wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem
>>
>> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll.
>
>
>I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who claim
>I'm a troll...

You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

notbob > wrote:

| On 2006-08-09, > wrote:
|
| > In Italy and I guess France but I am not sure, you pay far less to
| > stand at the "bar" and eat or to take it away, but if you want to eat
| > at a table that same food will cost more.
|
| Are you serious? And how do they know? Are there Starbucks that
| actually have table service? Is this commom practice at other eating
| establishments, this butt space pricing versus foot space pricing?

This is the norm in Italy, and it makes some sense if you think of it as
renting a table at which you plan to sit for a while. Of course, you can
often order the coffee at the bar and then carry it to an empty table - this
is extremely rude.

People in the US normally take a coffee to a table, sit for the 2 minutes
it takes to snarf it down, then dash off to something more important - in
this case, renting the table makes no sense, and would be a waste of money.
On the other hand, cafes near schools (like Bernies) are plagued by kids who
buy a coffee than stake out a table for hours - the Italian policy would be
very nice for such shops.

As US-style shops open in Italy, the norm might change, or at least get a
bit fuzzy.

- David R,
--
Less information than you ever thought possible:
http://www.demitasse.net

Dave Frightens Me wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 23:20:17 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> >
> >> On 9 Aug 2006 13:37:08 -0700, "aem" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Dave Frightens Me wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Gosh, are you an American by any chance?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Now that's funny, but no, trolls don't have nationalities. -aem
> >>
> >> It's not his first post, so I don't think it's a troll.
> >
> >
> >I've been on Usenet for eight years now and there are still those who
claim
> >I'm a troll...
>
> You're a shit-stirrer, not a troll!


Lol...and I've got me own religion too ;-p

--
Best
Greg

Following up to "Zox" > :

>By your logic, it is un-French to be a nonsmoker.

And your point is?
--
Tim C.

Following up to "Zox" > :

>And yes, you can put your feet up
>if you take off your shoes as I did and I have seen French
>people do it. All this "Ugly American" talk is infantile
>and boorish.

Aha, changing the goalposts now are we?
Maybe your feet were dirty? Maybe the others were lucky. But you do behave
like an ugly American, even here.
--
Tim C.

Following up to "Zox" > :

>
>Tim C. wrote:
>
>> Ignorant American oik.
>
>Is that you Herr Haider, hiding behind Timmy C's name?

Oh no, it's definitely me.
--
Tim C.

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
> All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their
> prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall.
>
> I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their
> emergency exits.

That wouldn't stop James Bond.

Gregory Morrow wrote:

>
> > > X if you drink it at the counter
> > >
> > > 2X if you sit at a table inside
> > >
> > > 3X if you sit at a table outside
> >
> > How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa?
>
> If you're quick enought it's free ;--)
>

I think the saying "If you don't like the way I drive stay off the sidewalk"
originated in Italy. We arrived there late one day and were out looking for a
place for dinner. Just like here, the have one way streets. Motorcyclists who
want to go opposite to the direction of the cars drive down the sidewalk....
and fast.

BB wrote:

> > Some people like to smoke. Some don't. It's what's generally called a
> > 'freedom of choice' matter. If you don't like smoking, don't go where
> > people smoke.
>
> He went into a non-smoking establishment, where no one was smoking when he
> ordered his coffee. Shouldn't that be enough?
>

We were taken out to dinner by a friend in Victoria. Her boyfriend was upset
because someone was smoking in the smoking section of the restaurant. Having
separate sections wasn't good enough for him. I didn't smell any smoke. My
wife didn't smell any smoke. The only thing that put a damper on out meal was
him carrying on and on and on about the smoke that no one smelled.

Zox wrote:
> PeterL wrote:
>
>> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the
>> place.
>
> Peter, you're a dirty little skanky smoker, aren't you?
>
> Did you know that smoking causes lung cancer
> and makes people want to strangle you?
>
Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to
strangle too...
WHY would you do such a thing??

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote
in ink.net:

>> I don't know. Is that significant to this convo or are you just
>> feeling playful tonight?
>
> Don't we have to first establish whether there *are* any Starbucks
> outlets in Italy?

Why don't you go and find out :-)

--

"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."

George Orwell

notbob > wrote in
:

> On 2006-08-10, Iceman > wrote:
>> In Italy, when the menu says your drink costs X, many cafes will
>> charge you:
>>
>> X if you drink it at the counter
>>
>> 2X if you sit at a table inside
>>
>> 3X if you sit at a table outside
>
> How many x's if you're riding off on your Vespa?

Hit and run coffee? How terribly gauche of you.

--

"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."

George Orwell

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote
in ink.net:

> Runge wowed us with:
>
>> He is a little excited, waiting for Jacqueline to appear
>
> I expect that the poor little lovebird is tired, you out pimping
> her night after night and all...

Obviously, you two have a hystery [sic].

--

"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."

George Orwell

Goomba38 wrote:
> Zox wrote:
> > PeterL wrote:
> >
> >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the
> >> place.

> Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to
> strangle too...
> WHY would you do such a thing??

I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in
public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer
(oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a
coffee shop. Very odd.

Michel Boucher wrote:

> "Gregory Morrow" > wrote
> in ink.net:
>
> > Runge wowed us with:
> >
> >> He is a little excited, waiting for Jacqueline to appear
> >
> > I expect that the poor little lovebird is tired, you out pimping
> > her night after night and all...
>
> Obviously, you two have a hystery [sic].


There are a lot of "characters" on rec.travel.europe, Michel...Runge aka
"gRunge" is our resident French grouch and "Jacqueline" is our resident
foul - mouthed Belgian tart.

In any case, I make new friends wherever I go )

--
Best
Greg

"Negativemark" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Goomba38 wrote:
>> Zox wrote:
>> > PeterL wrote:
>> >
>> >> He probably took off his shoes, which would drive anyone from the
>> >> place.
>
>> Looking at a strangers nasty feet on a chair in public makes me want to
>> strangle too...
>> WHY would you do such a thing??
>
> I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in
> public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer
> (oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a
> coffee shop. Very odd.
>

Nothing surprises me. I used to go camping regularly in NY State Parks.
Pattern: Someone would get the bathroom sparkling clean. An hour later, one
sink looks like someone rinsed mud off their shoes in it, and the other
contains gobs of glistening green phlegm. Probably the same pigs who burn
plastic plates in their campfires.

Some people live like animals.

"Gregory Morrow" > wrote
in k.net:

> There are a lot of "characters" on rec.travel.europe,
> Michel...Runge aka "gRunge" is our resident French grouch and
> "Jacqueline" is our resident foul - mouthed Belgian tart.

On a visit to Plymouth NH back in 1994 to deliver a lunch address to
the Canadian Studies annual meeting, I was referred to many times as a
"character" in conversations between my hosts and members of the
community, as in "Isn't he a character?" or "He sure is a character".
I was a bit non-plussed but assumed it was used to refer in non-
confrontational terms to my (to mid-Novahampshereans) unconventional
appearance and manner.

Obviously, it was a form of social telegraph.

--

"At a time of universal deceit - telling the truth
is a revolutionary act."

George Orwell

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Zox writes:
>
> > 1. I go in one near Bastille in Paris, and Starbucks needless to say
> > is nonsmoking, which is a big relief in a place like France.
> > But after I sit down some dumbo French dope walks in with a lit
> > cigarette and sits down, without being told by anyone who works there
> > that he can't enter with a cigarette. Idiots! I resolved the
> > situation eventually.
>
> What did you do?
>
> > 2. I go in another one, I order just one item and sit down to
> > read. I take off my shoes and put my foot up on a chair,
> > which, in the USA is 100% OK at the fifty or so Starbucks
> > I've been to throughout the US -- so long as you take off
> > your shoes of course! At this French Starbucks however
> > some jerkoff worker approaches wearing a yellow shirt,
> > which is against Starbucks regulations, not only tells me
> > to put my foot down but clearly is already ****ed off and gives me
> > a hand sign as if to say "better not do it again". Little ****er!
> > I should have smacked him upside the head. Later I called up
> > to talk to the manager and he says he wanted me to
> > come all the way to the cafe to complain in person.
> > Yeah right! I did my part entirely and he wants more!
> > This was the store at the pompidou center in paris.
> > I also tried complaining to headquarters via email but
> > unsurprisingly it appears that feature is broken on
> > the Starbucks.fr website.


Maybe that gesture is considered to be kind, friendly and appropriate
in Paris. You wouldn't know, like some gestures I had were considered
rude in UK, but perfectly polite and acceptable in HK. Anyhow, Zox,
hope you feel better soon.


>
> Do not complain to the French headquarters; complain to worldwide
> headquarters. Starbucks in France is run by a franchise that I think
> is based in Spain or Italy (I forget), and it can naturally be
> expected to act on your complaint in the usual European way--whereas
> American headquarters will act on it in a more American way. It helps
> if you can imply that the latter will incur some sort of liability
> through the actions of the franchise; the possibility of litigation
> always motivates American companies.
>
> > 3. I go to another place, the Starbucks at Odeon metro station
> > in Paris and both the French workers and the one British worker
> > are cool about everything and very polite and accommodating
> > in every way. This is especially good news because this is
> > in an area where the regular French cafes price-gouge everybody,
> > as in $3 for an espresso. I recommend this Starbucks.
>
> All of the Starbucks in Paris charge a lot. They increased their
> prices 40% in just the first year of their presence, as I recall.
>
> I haven't gone to them much because they have a habit of locking their
> emergency exits.
>
> --
> Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Oh, I well remember recovering from a Harvard commencement at 1369 in
Cambridge and seeing a young woman walk in, wearing a sparkling new
doctoral gown, throw herself down into a chair, and put her bare and
very dirty feet up on the table. Sic transit gloria mundi.

Nobody said a thing.

Will

Negativemark wrote:
> I'm going to agree, who takes there shoes off to drink coffee in
> public? I have seen people walk barefoot in the subway in the summer
> (oh you are just asking for an infection) but I have never seen it in a
> coffee shop. Very odd.

Michel Boucher wrote:

> On a visit to Plymouth NH back in 1994 to deliver a lunch address to
> the Canadian Studies annual meeting, I was referred to many times as a
> "character" in conversations between my hosts and members of the
> community, as in "Isn't he a character?" or "He sure is a character".
> I was a bit non-plussed but assumed it was used to refer in non-
> confrontational terms to my (to mid-Novahampshereans) unconventional
> appearance and manner.
>
> Obviously, it was a form of social telegraph.

Obviously a more enlightened crowd. Less articulate people say "asshole"
instead of "character" :-)