> wrote in message
...
> : "-L." >
> : ups.com:
>
> : >
> : > kilikini wrote:
> : >>
> : >> Killian's is made by Coors.
> : >
> : > Ewwww...I wish I had known that...I probably did at one time and had
> : > selective memory. ;p
> : >
> : > -L.
>
> : Dark beer is okay but I like dark ales. One of my favorites is
Felinfoel
> : Double Dragon. Good stuff and it'll knock you on your ass.
>
> Ale IS beer, dork. There are two kinds, I repeat, TWO kinds of beer -
ales
> and lagers, period. Both are beers. Beer is fermented with either an
> ale yeast at warmer temperatures, or a lager yeast at cooler temperatures.
> But both are beer.

Um, I disagree. There are lagers, pilsners (beer), ales, porters,
barleywines, stouts, lambics, wheats, bocks - I'm sure I'm missing more.
Pilsners are a standard "beer".

kili

"lubricant" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> Ale IS beer, dork. There are two kinds, I repeat, TWO kinds of beer -
>> ales
>> and lagers, period. Both are beers. Beer is fermented with either an
>> ale yeast at warmer temperatures, or a lager yeast at cooler
>> temperatures.
>> But both are beer.
>
> bob stop acting like a little bitch
>
> you say ale and lager are two kinds..
>
> where does barley, hopps, and malts fit into that

Barley IS "malt." The basics of the beer-brewing process
are as follows:

You "malt" barley. That basically means you soak the grain and
let it sprout and begin to grow a little; this releases enzymes
within the grain which will convert the starch content of that grain
to maltose, a sugar. Sugar is needed for fermentation, since
that's what the yeast is going to covert into alcohol and
CO2 (for the bubbles, don't ya know...).

The malted barley is then basically baked at moderately
high temps (between 100-160 deg. F, for various times)
to reduce the moisture content and start the conversion
of starch to maltose. The heat will also darken the grain
and change the flavors that it will contribute to the beer.

The malted barley goes into a "mash" - basically, you're
now putting it in water to extract the enzymes and starch
and maltose, and heating it to complete the conversion
process. Hops may be added at various stages in the
brewing process, but this is the earliest one - and in any
case, hops are just the flowers of a particular variety of
plant (there are lots of different types of hops used in
brewing) which primarily add an acid (and therefore
bitterness) to the mix. During this stage, the other flavors
contributed by the roasted grain come out.

The resulting liquid is now called a "wort" (pronounced
"wert"), and contains maltose, the hop flavors, etc..
After cooling (so that you don't kill the yeast), yeast is
added to begin the actual fermentation process. This is
where the distinction between "ale" and "lager" comes in;
ale yeasts are "top fermenting," meaning that they do their
work at the top of the container, while "lager yeasts" are
"bottom fermenting" and work down below. (These aren't
completely exclusive behaviors - for both types, there is
actually yeast at work pretty much throughout the wort
during the fermentation process; the names refer to a
tendency more than a hard restriction. And there
are many, many individual strains within these two main
categories, each with their own unique contributions.) The two
broad classes have other distinguishing characteristics -
ale yeasts tend to work at somewhat higher temperatures
than lager yeasts, for one. But different yeasts can produce
very different beers, even starting from the same wort.

And that's it; beer traditionally has only these four ingredients
(barley, hops, water, and yeast), although of course some
brewers these days add other grains as "adjuncts" (corn and
rice, esp.) which bring their own contributions to the product
(the addition of rice is responsible for a lot of the "dry and
light" characteristics of what many would call "mainstream
American beers" such as Budweiser, etc.).

Bob M.

Bob Myers wrote:

> And that's it; beer traditionally has only these four ingredients
> (barley, hops, water, and yeast), although of course some
> brewers these days add other grains as "adjuncts" (corn and
> rice, esp.) which bring their own contributions to the product
> (the addition of rice is responsible for a lot of the "dry and
> light" characteristics of what many would call "mainstream
> American beers" such as Budweiser, etc.).


Thanks for that essay. Where do twice fermented lambics fit in?
--Lia

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
> > And that's it; beer traditionally has only these four ingredients
> > (barley, hops, water, and yeast), although of course some
> > brewers these days add other grains as "adjuncts" (corn and
> > rice, esp.) which bring their own contributions to the product
> > (the addition of rice is responsible for a lot of the "dry and
> > light" characteristics of what many would call "mainstream
> > American beers" such as Budweiser, etc.).
>
>
> Thanks for that essay. Where do twice fermented lambics fit in?
> --Lia
>

And I love a good lambic!!!!!! Ah, the champagne of brew!

kili

kilikini wrote:
> Um, I disagree. There are lagers, pilsners (beer), ales, porters,
> barleywines, stouts, lambics, wheats, bocks - I'm sure I'm missing more.
> Pilsners are a standard "beer".
>
> kili

I appreciate a really good draught porter. ;q' Man, you guys are
making me jones for a beer...

-L.

kilikini wrote:
> > wrote in message
> ...
> > : "-L." >
> > : ups.com:
> >
> > : >
> > : > kilikini wrote:
> > : >>
> > : >> Killian's is made by Coors.
> > : >
> > : > Ewwww...I wish I had known that...I probably did at one time and had
> > : > selective memory. ;p
> > : >
> > : > -L.
> >
> > : Dark beer is okay but I like dark ales. One of my favorites is
> Felinfoel
> > : Double Dragon. Good stuff and it'll knock you on your ass.
> >
> > Ale IS beer, dork. There are two kinds, I repeat, TWO kinds of beer -
> ales
> > and lagers, period. Both are beers. Beer is fermented with either an
> > ale yeast at warmer temperatures, or a lager yeast at cooler temperatures.
> > But both are beer.
>
> Um, I disagree. There are lagers, pilsners (beer), ales, porters,
> barleywines, stouts, lambics, wheats, bocks - I'm sure I'm missing more.
> Pilsners are a standard "beer".

And every one of those is either an ale or a lager. E.g., pale ales,
porters, stouts, and barleywines are examples of ales; and pilsners,
marzens (oktoberfests), bocks and doppelbocks are examples of lagers.

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
> > And that's it; beer traditionally has only these four ingredients
> > (barley, hops, water, and yeast), although of course some
> > brewers these days add other grains as "adjuncts" (corn and
> > rice, esp.) which bring their own contributions to the product
> > (the addition of rice is responsible for a lot of the "dry and
> > light" characteristics of what many would call "mainstream
> > American beers" such as Budweiser, etc.).
>
>
> Thanks for that essay. Where do twice fermented lambics fit in?

That's a good question. Lambics are top-fermenting. And there's a
twist. The original ones are made with yeasts that spontaneously
invade the brewery through slats in its ceilings.

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Myers wrote:
>
>> And that's it; beer traditionally has only these four ingredients
>> (barley, hops, water, and yeast), although of course some
>> brewers these days add other grains as "adjuncts" (corn and
>> rice, esp.) which bring their own contributions to the product
>> (the addition of rice is responsible for a lot of the "dry and
>> light" characteristics of what many would call "mainstream
>> American beers" such as Budweiser, etc.).
>
>
> Thanks for that essay. Where do twice fermented lambics fit in?
> --Lia

Right between the single-fermented and the thrice-fermented,
why? ;-)

Bob M.

LT wrote:
> "cybercat" > wrote in message
> >
> > Why would you assume anyone knows what ABV is? Sometimes
> > I really hate the acronym trend.
> >
>
> Well, sorry about that. ABV is commonly used on beer labels when listing
> the school content.
<snip>
>
> So, now you know something new...
>

You've left me with even more questions... what is "school content"?

sf wrote:
> LT wrote:
> > "cybercat" > wrote in message
> > >
> > > Why would you assume anyone knows what ABV is? Sometimes
> > > I really hate the acronym trend.
> > >
> >
> > Well, sorry about that. ABV is commonly used on beer labels when listing
> > the school content.
> <snip>
> >
> > So, now you know something new...
> >
>
> You've left me with even more questions... what is "school content"?

He must have meant "alcohol content."

wrote:
> sf wrote:
> > LT wrote:
> > > "cybercat" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > Why would you assume anyone knows what ABV is? Sometimes
> > > > I really hate the acronym trend.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, sorry about that. ABV is commonly used on beer labels when listing
> > > the school content.
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > So, now you know something new...
> > >
> >
> > You've left me with even more questions... what is "school content"?
>
> He must have meant "alcohol content."

maybe he was drinking when he typed it

school?

nah, i refuse to google it, that's not interacting with people
my shrink says I need to interact with people

Bob Myers wrote:

> Right between the single-fermented and the thrice-fermented,
> why? ;-)


Ooh, now I want to try thrice fermented. I'm sitting here with a
Lindeman's cassis lambic as I type. I was thinking it couldn't get much
better, but three? Or 4? 5? <getting giddy as I consider the
possibilities>


(At the wine and cheese shop where I used to work, lambics were
considered girly stuff, not real beer. That figures since I only like
real beer with crawfish or maybe pizza in a pinch. I find that it is
hard to preserve the flavor of fresh fruit so well.)


--Lia

: kilikini wrote:
: > > wrote in message
: > ...
: > > : "-L." >
: > > : ups.com:
: > >
: > > : >
: > > : > kilikini wrote:
: > > : >>
: > > : >> Killian's is made by Coors.
: > > : >
: > > : > Ewwww...I wish I had known that...I probably did at one time and had
: > > : > selective memory. ;p
: > > : >
: > > : > -L.
: > >
: > > : Dark beer is okay but I like dark ales. One of my favorites is
: > Felinfoel
: > > : Double Dragon. Good stuff and it'll knock you on your ass.
: > >
: > > Ale IS beer, dork. There are two kinds, I repeat, TWO kinds of beer -
: > ales
: > > and lagers, period. Both are beers. Beer is fermented with either an
: > > ale yeast at warmer temperatures, or a lager yeast at cooler temperatures.
: > > But both are beer.
: >
: > Um, I disagree. There are lagers, pilsners (beer), ales, porters,
: > barleywines, stouts, lambics, wheats, bocks - I'm sure I'm missing more.
: > Pilsners are a standard "beer".

: And every one of those is either an ale or a lager. E.g., pale ales,
: porters, stouts, and barleywines are examples of ales; and pilsners,
: marzens (oktoberfests), bocks and doppelbocks are examples of lagers.

Exactly right! And both of those are BEER (ales and lagers)!

: > wrote in message
: ...
: > : "-L." >
: > : ups.com:
: >
: > : >
: > : > kilikini wrote:
: > : >>
: > : >> Killian's is made by Coors.
: > : >
: > : > Ewwww...I wish I had known that...I probably did at one time and had
: > : > selective memory. ;p
: > : >
: > : > -L.
: >
: > : Dark beer is okay but I like dark ales. One of my favorites is
: Felinfoel
: > : Double Dragon. Good stuff and it'll knock you on your ass.
: >
: > Ale IS beer, dork. There are two kinds, I repeat, TWO kinds of beer -
: ales
: > and lagers, period. Both are beers. Beer is fermented with either an
: > ale yeast at warmer temperatures, or a lager yeast at cooler temperatures.
: > But both are beer.

: Um, I disagree. There are lagers, pilsners (beer), ales, porters,
: barleywines, stouts, lambics, wheats, bocks - I'm sure I'm missing more.
: Pilsners are a standard "beer".

: kili


A pilsner is a style of lager. Porters, barleywines, stouts, lambics are
styles of ales. Again, beer is made from lager and ale yeasts. The various
styles of ales or lagers are then called pilsner, porter, stout, bock, etc.

Beer is the all-encompassing term.
Ale is any style of beer made using ale yeast.
Lager is any style of beer made using lager yeast.

Get the picture?

wrote:

>
> sf wrote:
> > LT wrote:
> > > "cybercat" > wrote in message
> > > >
> > > > Why would you assume anyone knows what ABV is? Sometimes
> > > > I really hate the acronym trend.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Well, sorry about that. ABV is commonly used on beer labels when
> > > listing the school content.
> > <snip>
> > >
> > > So, now you know something new...
> > >
> >
> > You've left me with even more questions... what is "school content"?
>
> He must have meant "alcohol content."

Possibly a spellcheck-induced error.



Brian (letter-perf3ct)

--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)

mob-barley wrote:
> LT wrote:
> > Guinness is a good beer, especially on tap. But despite how "heavy" it
> > tastes, it is relatively low ABV. (under 5%)
>
> what's an abv, sure I could google it up, but what fun is that
>
> > I like a sharp cheese along with these types of beers.
> > Larry T
>
> I do like the S. Nevada beer, that's a good ale
>
> we used to build our own six packs, but I never actually read the
> labels..
> more like.. hmmm, that's a cool label... it was fun
>
> beer and cheese, that sounds good..
> I also like a home baked yeast bread with a beer...
> maybe it's sort of remenicient of dining out, i dont know
>
> then there's the stout with the black lab on the label
> I think it's made in VA, maybe in williamsburg

The Stoudt's Brewery of PA. makes a good imperial oatmeal stout called
Fat Dog Stout, with a black dog (I first thought it was a Lab, but on
closer inspection, it's probably a Newfoundland) on the label.

The Rogue Brewery's mascot is the brewer's Black Lab.

>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > Well, sorry about that. ABV is commonly used on beer labels when
>> > > listing the school content.
>> > <snip>
>> > >
>> > > So, now you know something new...
>> > >
>> >
>> > You've left me with even more questions... what is "school content"?
>>
>> He must have meant "alcohol content."
>
> Possibly a spellcheck-induced error.
>
That's it exactly. my eyesight is so bad right now, sometimes when clicking
through spell check I miss correct some words.

Going for my right eye cataract surgery next Tuesday.. Been waiting
months..

Larry T

Julia Altshuler > wrote in news:HPKdnRmiJuDZ-
:


>
>
> Thanks for that essay. Where do twice fermented lambics fit in?
>


Lambic is kind of in a class of its own. Ale is made with the yeast
/saccharomyces cerevisiae/, lager is made with /saccharomyces
carlsbergensis/ and lambic is made with whatever floats in through the
windows of the brewery from the outside world (which is why it only works
in one very small part of the world, because elsewhere the local yeasts are
all wrong). If you wanted to label it one way or the other, ale would
probably be more correct, as /s. cerevisiae/ is one of the dozens of wild
yeasts that find their way in there, but most of its character is the
result of various strains of /brettanomyces/.

K

: The terms top- and bottom-fermenting are a little misleading in that they
: refer not to where the yeast works but where it ends up afterwards. The
: sediment from the ale yeast floats to the top, and that from lager yeast to
: the bottom, although, as you say, the fermentation happens throughout the
: wort.

False. The yeast, along with the sediment, always end up at the bottom of
the fermenting vessel regardless of whether it's an ale or a lager yeast.

On 2006-08-24, > wrote:

> False. The yeast, along with the sediment, always end up at the bottom of
> the fermenting vessel regardless of whether it's an ale or a lager yeast.

True. It's one of the reasons for doing the so-called "secondary
fermentation", to get the primary fermentation off the almost spent
yeast cake which has fallen to the bottom.

nb

wrote in
:

>: The terms top- and bottom-fermenting are a little misleading in that
>: they refer not to where the yeast works but where it ends up
>: afterwards. The sediment from the ale yeast floats to the top, and
>: that from lager yeast to the bottom, although, as you say, the
>: fermentation happens throughout the wort.
>
> False. The yeast, along with the sediment, always end up at the
> bottom of the fermenting vessel regardless of whether it's an ale or a
> lager yeast.
>
>


I stand corrected - thanks

K