Nancy Young wrote:

> Did I ask for a friggin free meal? Did I even ask for the friggin manager?
> Finally he gave us a free bottle of wine. I said I would still eat there
> but put
> only my steak on the place, no garnish, nothing else, just my steak.


For something that egregious, I would have assured the waiter that I
didn't want the meal for free, I didn't want the meal at all. Then I
would have glanced at my dinnermate and walked out together.


But you've put your finger on the problem. In a perfect world, there'd
be some sort of restaurant genie in the ceiling who would pronounce
judgment on who was right in these situations. Patrons who complain
about nothing in order to get something free would be tossed out with
police escort because they deserve it, and waiters and kitchen staff who
downplay cockroaches as not being a big deal would be put out of
business by discerning customers. You wouldn't have good restauranteurs
being blackmailed, nor would you have bad customers learning that they
can get away with blackmail.


My father is known for this bit of wisdom: "why pay twice?" If you're
staying at a hotel that includes free breakfast, but if the breakfast
isn't to your liking, why put up with it because it is free? That's
paying twice. Better to go somewhere that will give you the breakfast
you want and pay for it. THAT'S getting your money's worth.


It is the same with a bad meal in a restaurant. It is bad enough that
the meal is bad, but making it worse by complaining and getting into a
conflict is paying twice. I believe it is worth it to pay the bill and
leave. Getting a good meal somewhere else, even from the friendly pizza
and grinder shop around the corner, is getting my money's worth.


--Lia

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> Dave Smith > :
>
>
>>Damn. Good thing we get to choose our friends.
>>I have managed to avoid the famous niece for a long time. I
>>haven't had to endure her visiting and eating my out of house and
>>home for about 5 years now. I have managed to see her only
>>briefly at several parties. If I could just find a way not to
>>have to deal with two nephews without upsetting their parents.
>
>
> Dave, I'm not sure if it was you or not. Someone posted about their niece
> a long, long time ago. The niece ate everything from the moment she
> entered the front door. She was eating stuff that wasn't even served yet.
> Were you the poster?
>
> Michael
>
When I entertain, I love for guests to take home the left overs. I
prepare more, so that there is enough for them. Nobody has to bring
his or her own containers or doggy bags, I have a bunch of them for
such occasions. I also save pretty tote bags, so the food can be
carried home in something nice.

When my guests have left and I look at empty platters and an empty
refrigerator, I smile to myself and I think: It's nice to have
friends come to visit!

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> Julia Altshuler >
> :
>
>
>>
>>We ended up tipping well. We will go back. We'd have gone back
>>anyway.
>>
>>
>>--Lia
>
>
> Some restaurants are like that. I would never ask for a comp on a meal.
> If you are not expecting it or act like you deserve a comp, many
> restaurants will comp just to keep your business. You're a good doobie to
> leave a nice tip for the good service you received.
>
> Michael
>

Michael, Here is a funny story for you.

I love Crab Cakes and I order them whenever I see them on the menus of
certain restaurants. In one where Marcel and I ate frequently (they
closed some years ago), they were especially good and I was very
disappointed when I tried one one night and is was really bad. It had
a fishy smell and did not taste of crab meat.

I told the waitress that there was something wrong with my main course
and asked her whether the restaurant had a new chef. She said it did
not and also said that nobody had complained about the Crab Cakes.

Meanwhile, the owner of the place was walking around the dining room,
greeting guests and inquiring whether the diners were pleased. When
the waitress went to him, he came to our table immediately and I
repeated my complaint. The man asked whether he could taste my crab
cake, took a fork, cut off a small piece of the offending dish and
first smelled, then tasted it. His whole face broke out in a smile.
"There is nothing wrong with this" he said "and now I understand why
the diner over there" (he pointed to someone across the room) "said
that he had just eaten the best Salmon Croquettes ever".

Somehow, our two orders had been mixed up. New Crab Cakes were
brought and there was no bill. We protested, but Monsieur Jacques
would not take "no" for an answer. "Voulez Vous", the restaurant, was
forced out of business when the land lord increased the rent five fold.

Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan wrote:

> Dave Smith > :
>
> >
> > Damn. Good thing we get to choose our friends.
> > I have managed to avoid the famous niece for a long time. I
> > haven't had to endure her visiting and eating my out of house and
> > home for about 5 years now. I have managed to see her only
> > briefly at several parties. If I could just find a way not to
> > have to deal with two nephews without upsetting their parents.
>
> Dave, I'm not sure if it was you or not. Someone posted about their niece
> a long, long time ago. The niece ate everything from the moment she
> entered the front door. She was eating stuff that wasn't even served yet.
> Were you the poster?

Yes. She is a human garberator. It wasn't just food that hadn't been put out
yet, she sneaks into the kitchen and raids the pantry, stuffing her face with
things she finds there. I certainly don't have a problem with a weekend guest
helping herself to food, but when there is a party going on outside with 60
people and food enough for at least 20 more, there is no excuse for someone to
sneak into the kitchen and go rooting through the panty for more.

One one visit, while she was on Weight Watchers, I stashed a double batch of
chocolate chips cookies I had made and hidden before her arrival. After she
left I went to retrieve the cookies. They were gone. A double batch of cookies
is about 6 dozen. Sadly, for here that is dieting.

The Cook wrote:

>
> These are probably the same people who will go into a store and "buy"
> an outfit for an event. Wear it and take it back on Monday. And see
> nothing wrong with it.

My sister in law manages a womens wear store. That is a major problem every
time there is a formal event in their city. A number of women will come in
and buy <?> her best outfits. After the gala event the outfits are returned.
So when you see pictures of gala events and all those well dressed women
there is no need to be envious of them being able to afford such nice duds.
They are just borrowing them for a few days.

"Margaret Suran" > wrote

> Somehow, our two orders had been mixed up. New Crab Cakes were brought
> and there was no bill. We protested, but Monsieur Jacques would not take
> "no" for an answer.

What a sweet story, Margaret. Too bad they are gone. Such a
shame.

nancy

Margaret Suran wrote:

>
> > Dave, I'm not sure if it was you or not. Someone posted about their niece
> > a long, long time ago. The niece ate everything from the moment she
> > entered the front door. She was eating stuff that wasn't even served yet.
> > Were you the poster?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> When I entertain, I love for guests to take home the left overs. I
> prepare more, so that there is enough for them. Nobody has to bring
> his or her own containers or doggy bags, I have a bunch of them for
> such occasions. I also save pretty tote bags, so the food can be
> carried home in something nice.
>
> When my guests have left and I look at empty platters and an empty
> refrigerator, I smile to myself and I think: It's nice to have
> friends come to visit!

Not to dwell on the niece, but ..... after my father in law died we had a pot
luck family gathering at his apartment. True to form, she and her husband
brought a small amount of cheap crap while everyone else had brought a lot of
good stuff. After dinner the niece headed to the kitchen. I thought that I was
going to have to reappraise my feelings about her since she had taken upon
herself to clean up. As it turned out, she wasn't cleaning up. She was packing
all the food into bags and was planning on taking it home with her. It was her
brother who confronted her and told her she had no business taking things that
other people had brought without even asking. He shamed her into asking people.
I wasn't the only one who turned her down.

Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan wrote:

>
>
> I'm the same way Margaret but the people being discussed are not friends.
> They are not even nice people, but we are stuck with them because they are
> relatives. Their boorish behavior in public and in my home has made me
> resentful of them and I would like to cut them out of my life but am unable

I can appreciate that. I have a friend, actually more of an acquaintance who
used to hang out here a lot, who I am embarrassed to go into stores and
restaurants with. But I have one nephew who I really resent having to invite
to special affairs. It's bad enough that he arrives for Christmas dinner in
sweat pants and a dirty T-shirt, but I can't handle it when a 33 year old male
whines and pouts because the selection of a dozen desserts has nothing he
likes. Christmas is a very special day for me, one that is supposed to be
about enjoying good things, not watching a grown man . I turned down good
offers because I feel obligated to spend the day with my aged mother.

In article >,
"The Ranger" > wrote:

> It was recently discussed in another venue that there seems to be an
> increase in the number of patron demanding comp for major and minor
> infractions during dining out. I did not experience this to the levels
> being assumed during my tour working in restaurants, nor have I
> witnessed it as a customer.
>
> What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you
> notice more people demanding to be comped for real and imaginary
> problems, no matter how insignificant? (I'm not talking about the
> extremes, either; a cockroach in the middle of the plate or the mouse
> that runs up a pants leg.)
>
> Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals for
> free as an entitlement?
>
> Just curious.

Not me. I haven't noticed that, and I dine out a lot.

The Ranger wrote:
> It was recently discussed in another venue that there seems to be an
> increase in the number of patron demanding comp for major and minor
> infractions during dining out. I did not experience this to the levels
> being assumed during my tour working in restaurants, nor have I
> witnessed it as a customer.
>
> What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you
> notice more people demanding to be comped for real and imaginary
> problems, no matter how insignificant? (I'm not talking about the
> extremes, either; a cockroach in the middle of the plate or the mouse
> that runs up a pants leg.)
>
> Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals for
> free as an entitlement?
>
> Just curious.
>
> The Ranger

Nope. The only time I was *offered* something was when found GLASS in
my salad. I declined, and was charged for the salad...
-L.

Dave Smith wrote:
>
> Yes. She is a human garberator. It wasn't just food that hadn't been put out
> yet, she sneaks into the kitchen and raids the pantry, stuffing her face with
> things she finds there. I certainly don't have a problem with a weekend guest
> helping herself to food, but when there is a party going on outside with 60
> people and food enough for at least 20 more, there is no excuse for someone to
> sneak into the kitchen and go rooting through the panty for more.
>
> One one visit, while she was on Weight Watchers, I stashed a double batch of
> chocolate chips cookies I had made and hidden before her arrival. After she
> left I went to retrieve the cookies. They were gone. A double batch of cookies
> is about 6 dozen. Sadly, for here that is dieting.

She's mentally ill. That behavior is food obsession - an OCD disorder.

-L.
(armchair psychologist for the day)

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> I'm the same way Margaret but the people being discussed are not friends.
> They are not even nice people, but we are stuck with them because they are
> relatives. Their boorish behavior in public and in my home has made me
> resentful of them and I would like to cut them out of my life but am unable
> to.

That's my one of my relatives. Not only does she complain at
restaurants and about other food, she will eat you out of house and
home when she comes to visit. I have never seen an eating machine like
her - and sadly her daughters are just like her and both extremely
overweight. For them, it's an eating disorder though - eating because
they aren't loved. Sad, really.

-L.

In article . net>,
lid says...
>
>
> Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> > Julia Altshuler >
> > :
> >
> >
> >>
> >>We ended up tipping well. We will go back. We'd have gone back
> >>anyway.
> >>
> >>
> >>--Lia
> >
> >
> > Some restaurants are like that. I would never ask for a comp on a meal.
> > If you are not expecting it or act like you deserve a comp, many
> > restaurants will comp just to keep your business. You're a good doobie to
> > leave a nice tip for the good service you received.
> >
> > Michael
> >
>
> Michael, Here is a funny story for you.
>
> I love Crab Cakes and I order them whenever I see them on the menus of
> certain restaurants. In one where Marcel and I ate frequently (they
> closed some years ago), they were especially good and I was very
> disappointed when I tried one one night and is was really bad. It had
> a fishy smell and did not taste of crab meat.
>
> I told the waitress that there was something wrong with my main course
> and asked her whether the restaurant had a new chef. She said it did
> not and also said that nobody had complained about the Crab Cakes.
>
> Meanwhile, the owner of the place was walking around the dining room,
> greeting guests and inquiring whether the diners were pleased. When
> the waitress went to him, he came to our table immediately and I
> repeated my complaint. The man asked whether he could taste my crab
> cake, took a fork, cut off a small piece of the offending dish and
> first smelled, then tasted it. His whole face broke out in a smile.
> "There is nothing wrong with this" he said "and now I understand why
> the diner over there" (he pointed to someone across the room) "said
> that he had just eaten the best Salmon Croquettes ever".
>
> Somehow, our two orders had been mixed up. New Crab Cakes were
> brought and there was no bill. We protested, but Monsieur Jacques
> would not take "no" for an answer. "Voulez Vous", the restaurant, was
> forced out of business when the land lord increased the rent five fold.
>
>
>

Landlords have this uncanny ability to force out a business when it gets
to be too successful. After all, greed steps in and they figure that
since the restaurant is doing well, maybe they should too.

Assholes, the lot of them.

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

>
> I'm the same way Margaret but the people being discussed are not friends.
> They are not even nice people, but we are stuck with them because they are
> relatives. Their boorish behavior in public and in my home has made me
> resentful of them and I would like to cut them out of my life but am unable
> to.
>
> Michael

Michael, and if one of them would need something and you could help,
you would not hesitate for one second to do so.

I speak from experience. Do you know how often I have deleted
something from a post or email, because I was afraid you would want to
do something or get something that I mentioned? No need to protest,
as you have done it before. )

Nancy Young wrote:
> "Margaret Suran" > wrote
>
>
>>Somehow, our two orders had been mixed up. New Crab Cakes were brought
>>and there was no bill. We protested, but Monsieur Jacques would not take
>>"no" for an answer.
>
>
> What a sweet story, Margaret. Too bad they are gone. Such a
> shame.
>
> nancy
>
>
He worked so hard to make a success of his restaurant. One of the NY
Times food critics, I believe it was Mimi Sheraton but I would have to
check to make sure, gave him a miserable review. She did not complain
about the food or the physical attributes of the dining room or
kitchen or the location, which happened to be right across the street
from the building where I live. She made fun of him, the owner
Monsieur Jacques, about the way he spoke and dressed. She must have
felt slighted by him, even though he said that he had never had the
slightest unpleasantness with her. People who read the review stopped
coming. Then, another NY Times Food writer mentioned the restaurant
as one of the best for three French Bistro dishes, the only one
praised for so many and the place became very popular again. The food
was great, the portions were generous, the prices were modest and the
diners were treated like friends.

sf > wrote in message
ups.com...
> http://i8.tinypic.com/2504gty.gif

I _like_ it!

The Ranger

"Margaret Suran" > wrote

> I speak from experience. Do you know how often I have deleted something
> from a post or email, because I was afraid you would want to do something
> or get something that I mentioned? No need to protest, as you have done
> it before. )

And you deny him that pleasure. What to do with you, Margaret.

(smile) nancy

The Ranger wrote:

> SD > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> > > Julia Altshuler >
> :
> > > > > ==>boorish behavior<==
> > > > >
> > > > Why?
> > > >
> > > Why what?
> > >
> > I think: Why, if their behavior is so insufferable, do you
> > continue to see them?
> >
> Family.


If they are that bad then the "family" excuse doesn't cut it -- no need
to suffer like that, life is too short.

--
Best
Greg

On 2006-08-19, The Ranger > wrote:

> On one "board," it's considered coupe if you get comped -- and the
> posters try and out-do each other in outrageousness.

That pretty much says it all. No doubt this has become apparent to
aware folks in the industry and is being countered by various
strategies. Hopefully, no one is encouraging these twits, except by
other twits.

nb

On 2006-08-19, The Ranger > wrote:
> I hope it's as simple as a very vocal minority being viewed
> electronically and not, as the cliche goes, the tip of the iceberg.

You're hanging on the wrong iceberg.

nb

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:

> Margaret Suran >
> ink.net:
>
> > When I entertain, I love for guests to take home the left overs. I
> > prepare more, so that there is enough for them. Nobody has to bring
> > his or her own containers or doggy bags, I have a bunch of them for
> > such occasions. I also save pretty tote bags, so the food can be
> > carried home in something nice.
> >
> > When my guests have left and I look at empty platters and an empty
> > refrigerator, I smile to myself and I think: It's nice to have
> > friends come to visit!
>
> I'm the same way Margaret but the people being discussed are not friends.
> They are not even nice people, but we are stuck with them because they are
> relatives. Their boorish behavior in public and in my home has made me
> resentful of them and I would like to cut them out of my life but am unable
> to.


We often have cookouts, parties, etc. at our local bar. We always have
a LOT of food, so there are plenty of leftovers. We even keep a bunch
of containers, etc. for people to use to take food home...all patrons
are welcome to our culinary spreads, even complete strangers. The more
the merrier, etc....

HOWEVER there is one old alcoholic fag hag broad named Maxine who
invariably crashes our do's and proceeds to try to take HUGE amounts of
leftovers home with her. She'll try to kype whole big containers of
stuff, big slabs 'o meat, etc. We are like, "Hey, Maxine! Leave some
for the rest of us...!!!".

One night when she was drunk she tried to take a WHOLE CASE of Usinger
bratwurst that was stored in the freezer in the back of the joint. I
said, "Um, Maxine, WHAT are you doing!?". She slurs, "I'm going to
meet some friends over at Sidetrack (big *** video bar) and I thought
I'd take these home for later." to which I replied, "Uh, you are going
to drag a WHOLE case of brats into Sidetrack? I DON'T think so...".

She also tried to sneak out one time with a whole Costco shrimp ring
appetizer...

The thing is this old bat is RICH, she comes from money so hasn't ever
had to really work. She is just cheap. She is also the one who is
always asking the attorneys, etc., who hang out there how she can get
her wealthy elderly father on Medicare, disability, food stamps, etc
(she already has her own generous trust, she doesn't need anymore of
Daddy's money to survive)....

Sheesh, she has NO shame, lol...

OTOH sometimes we'll see one of the neighborhood homeless persons and
take them a big plate of food. They never ask for it but are SO
grateful to get it...these folks have a LOT more class than Rich Bitch
Maxine...some people <shrug/>

--
Best
Greg

On 2006-08-19, The Ranger > wrote:

> Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals for
> free as an entitlement?

Hell, I stop eating out with people that are just cheap tippers!

As for comps, I've been partially comped a couple times, but never
expected it. If an eatery ****es me off so bad as to expect being
comped, I'd probably wouldn't return even if they did.

nb

In article >,
"The Ranger" > wrote:

> The Cook > wrote in message
> ...
>
> [snip]
> > These are probably the same people who will go into a
> > store and "buy" an outfit for an event. Wear it and take
> > it back on Monday. And see nothing wrong with it.
>
> That's just so against everything I believe that I can't imagine there
> are people out there doing it... I know they are out there but I just
> hope to _never_ run into them...

Some people can be very nervy. It is not unusual for people to go out
and buy a fancy TV set for the Super Bowl, then return it a day or two
after the game is over.

"Shawn Hirn" > wrote

> Some people can be very nervy. It is not unusual for people to go out
> and buy a fancy TV set for the Super Bowl, then return it a day or two
> after the game is over.

Imagine? I remember seeing the stores doing something
about that. If you bought a tv before and returned it after,
some crazy restocking fee or something would kick in.

People are just ridiculous.

nancy

Margaret Suran wrote:
>
>
> Nancy Young wrote:
>> "Margaret Suran" > wrote
>>
>>
>>> Somehow, our two orders had been mixed up. New Crab Cakes were
>>> brought and there was no bill. We protested, but Monsieur Jacques
>>> would not take "no" for an answer.
>>
>>
>> What a sweet story, Margaret. Too bad they are gone. Such a
>> shame.
>>
>> nancy
>>
> He worked so hard to make a success of his restaurant. One of the NY
> Times food critics, I believe it was Mimi Sheraton but I would have to
> check to make sure, gave him a miserable review. She did not complain
> about the food or the physical attributes of the dining room or
> kitchen or the location, which happened to be right across the street
> from the building where I live. She made fun of him, the owner
> Monsieur Jacques, about the way he spoke and dressed. She must have
> felt slighted by him, even though he said that he had never had the
> slightest unpleasantness with her. People who read the review stopped
> coming. Then, another NY Times Food writer mentioned the restaurant
> as one of the best for three French Bistro dishes, the only one
> praised for so many and the place became very popular again. The food
> was great, the portions were generous, the prices were modest and the
> diners were treated like friends.
What sort of customer would stop going to a good restaurant just because
of a review like that? Are people unable to make their own judgments?

On the original topic, I must say I've never heard of anybody getting an
entire meal for free just because of a minor complaint. Not paying for
the course that went wrong or getting a free dessert, yes, but never the
whole meal. On the contrary, I've heard of attempts to charge people for
both the unordered/dodgy dish and its replacement.

I had undercooked quail years ago at O'Connell's when Greg Malouf was
the chef there. We were not charged for it. The great man was cooking at
the time, but when we left he came out of the kitchen and apologized
profusely, which was surely all one could ask for!

Christine

Stan Horwitz wrote:

> Not me. I haven't noticed that, and I dine out a lot.


And that leads me to the next question: Is there a trend that can be
identified by area of the country or age group or some other factor? My
stories about the horrible friends who complained and got comped meals
are from 10 years ago and in Miami. The friends were both female and in
their 30s. My stories about restaurant staff offering comps for minor
complaints are all within the last 10 years and in New England.


--Lia

Margaret Suran wrote:

One of the NY
> Times food critics, I believe it was Mimi Sheraton but I would have to
> check to make sure, gave him a miserable review. She did not complain
> about the food or the physical attributes of the dining room or kitchen
> or the location, which happened to be right across the street from the
> building where I live. She made fun of him, the owner Monsieur Jacques,
> about the way he spoke and dressed. She must have felt slighted by him,


More likely, she knows that bad reviews garner more attention than good
ones, and that's good for the journalist. It is more entertaining to
find something to complain about.


I don't know if this is true, but I heard that the restaurant owners in
Miami got so fed up with The New Times giving shattering restaurant
reviews that they agreed to stop advertising with them. That put an end
to that practice quick. The new policy was to give either good reviews
or fair ones. If the reviewers wanted to give a bad one, they didn't
run that review. A bad restaurant never got a space in the newspaper.
Readers never knew if a restaurnat hadn't been reviewed because it was
awful or because they just hadn't gotten to it yet.


--Lia

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006 23:20:38 -0400, "Nancy Young" >
wrote:

>
>"Shawn Hirn" > wrote
>
>> Some people can be very nervy. It is not unusual for people to go out
>> and buy a fancy TV set for the Super Bowl, then return it a day or two
>> after the game is over.
>
>Imagine? I remember seeing the stores doing something
>about that. If you bought a tv before and returned it after,
>some crazy restocking fee or something would kick in.
>
>People are just ridiculous.
>
>nancy
>

An older friend of my DIL got caught in the new policy. She had
always gone to a couple of the stores, taken some things home to try
on and brought back what she did not want. Even though she always
returned things unused she gets penalized for the actions of others.
In my small town when I was growing up it was called "taking things on
approval." a ticket was written up and the next day or two you can
back in and returned the things you did not want and paid for the
rest. If you got a reputation for buying on Friday and returning on
Monday I am sure that you would have never taken anything on approval
again. And in a small town, people talk and the word gets around.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974

Gregory Morrow wrote:

> If they are that bad then the "family" excuse doesn't cut it -- no need
> to suffer like that, life is too short.


I agree in principle, but for family "that bad" constitutes violence,
alcoholism, drug abuse, child abuse, or incest. Those are the only
reasons to cut a close family member off and never see them again. If
the only complaint is boorish behavior, then seeing them a few times a
year and putting up with them is appropriate. Life is too short to cut
off family because you don't like them.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:

> I agree in principle, but for family "that bad" constitutes violence,
> alcoholism, drug abuse, child abuse, or incest. Those are the only
> reasons to cut a close family member off and never see them again. If
> the only complaint is boorish behavior, then seeing them a few times a
> year and putting up with them is appropriate. Life is too short to cut
> off family because you don't like them.
>

Sure you have to put up with them once in a while. You don't want to miss
family events for concerns about having to deal with them, but you don't have
to invite them to your house on their own.

Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan wrote:

>
> > One one visit, while she was on Weight Watchers, I stashed a double
> > batch of chocolate chips cookies I had made and hidden before her
> > arrival. After she left I went to retrieve the cookies. They were
> > gone. A double batch of cookies is about 6 dozen. Sadly, for here
> > that is dieting.
>
> I won't even hazard a guess as to how much she must weigh.

Me either :-)
It is well over 300 lb.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 09:17:17 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
>> If they are that bad then the "family" excuse doesn't cut it -- no need
>> to suffer like that, life is too short.
>
>I agree in principle, but for family "that bad" constitutes violence,
>alcoholism, drug abuse, child abuse, or incest. Those are the only
>reasons to cut a close family member off and never see them again. If
>the only complaint is boorish behavior, then seeing them a few times a
>year and putting up with them is appropriate. Life is too short to cut
>off family because you don't like them.

I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because we
have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to that.
I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.

Carol

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:59:56 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Michael \"Dog3\" Lonergan wrote:
>
>> > One one visit, while she was on Weight Watchers, I stashed a double
>> > batch of chocolate chips cookies I had made and hidden before her
>> > arrival. After she left I went to retrieve the cookies. They were
>> > gone. A double batch of cookies is about 6 dozen. Sadly, for here
>> > that is dieting.
>>
>> I won't even hazard a guess as to how much she must weigh.
>
>Me either :-)
>It is well over 300 lb.

And help for Compulsive Overeating Disorder is very hard to come by.
I'm appalled by her behavior, but I also feel sorry for her. I have
the same problem, but with better (not perfect) manners.

Carol

In article >,
The Cook > wrote:

> rest. If you got a reputation for buying on Friday and returning on
> Monday I am sure that you would have never taken anything on approval
> again. And in a small town, people talk and the word gets around.

Talk to a jeweler about what gets "bought" and "returned" a week or two
later. They can tell.

{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }

Beef Jerky - Paul Hinrichs' recipe

Recipe By: Barb Schaller post to r.f.cooking, 8-20-06
Serving Size: 1
Preparation Time: 0:00
Categories: Miscellaneous

Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
Marinade
1 cup soy sauce
1 cup Worcestershire sauce
1 tablespoon ground black pepper
1 tablespoon onion powder
1 tablespoon garlic powder
1 tablespoon garam masala
2 tablespoons kosher salt
1 teaspoon Prague Powder #1 (nitrite based curing
salt, allows low temp dehydration)
Meat
10 # London broil trimmed of fat

Freeze until just partially set, about 3-4 hours, to ease slicing. Cut
into 1/4" to 3/8" strips, either with or against the grain Marinate for
24 hours, mixing it up a few times to insure homogenous coating. (A
white trash bag is perfect for keeping it in the fridge during
marination).

Place marinated slices on dehydrator trays, each tray will hold about a
pound. Set temperature on deydrator to 125 F and dehydrate about 15
hours, rotating trays every few hours to insure even drying.

(This, of course, can all be scaled down as needed...)
----------
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://jamlady.eboard.com
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because we
> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to that.
> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.


So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday. Give her a fake
warm hug when you're both invited to a cousin's. I'm not talking about
being sincere, making a friend of her, getting tied up in her personal
life, or trying to solve her problems. Recognize when she's being
manipulative, and visualize shaking the manipulation off as though it
were rain and you were a dog on the porch. Think of something you can
agree on--like maybe that you both like pretty flowers and old movies.
Limit the conversation topics to that. Agree with her even as she tries
to turn that into an argument. That's it. No more. Do that for
someone you share DNA with. You can write off ex-friends but not
sisters. Life is too short not to do a brief kindness to someone who
doesn't deserve it.


--Lia

The Ranger > wrote:
>What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you

Friday I stopped in for lunch at a place I go to about 3 times a week.

It was very busy, but I wasn't in any hurry, and didn't
mind anything that was happening. In fact, it was a fairly
normal event.

I asked for the check, and Bill, the manager, says "It's on
me." Just comped it out of hand, because I was a regular.
Maybe he figures a regular is someone who does a good
thing for him when business is slack, so it's reasonable to
return the favor on a day the regular's money isn't needed.

>Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals for
>free as an entitlement?

Um, entitlement? Never. But if something egregious
happens, that's not an entitlement, it's a compensation.

--Blair

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:34:01 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
>> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
>> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because we
>> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to that.
>> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.
>
>
>So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday.

I am not Dams, but why? I have limited time and energy. Why would I
spend it on someone who regularly goes out of her way to harm me?

> Give her a fake
>warm hug when you're both invited to a cousin's. I'm not talking about
>being sincere, making a friend of her, getting tied up in her personal
>life, or trying to solve her problems. Recognize when she's being
>manipulative, and visualize shaking the manipulation off as though it
>were rain and you were a dog on the porch. Think of something you can
>agree on--like maybe that you both like pretty flowers and old movies.
>Limit the conversation topics to that. Agree with her even as she tries
>to turn that into an argument. That's it. No more.

There are people with whom that works as a strategy. There are others
who are toxic, and any time in their presence is an invitation for
pain.

> Do that for
>someone you share DNA with. You can write off ex-friends but not
>sisters.

I disagree.

> Life is too short not to do a brief kindness to someone who
>doesn't deserve it.

Life is too short to keep toxic people in my life.

serene
--
My blog: http://serenejournal.livejournal.com
My cooking blog: http://serenecooking.livejournal.com

Julia Altshuler wrote:
>
> So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday. Give her a fake
> warm hug when you're both invited to a cousin's. I'm not talking about
> being sincere, making a friend of her, getting tied up in her personal
> life, or trying to solve her problems. Recognize when she's being
> manipulative, and visualize shaking the manipulation off as though it
> were rain and you were a dog on the porch. Think of something you can
> agree on--like maybe that you both like pretty flowers and old movies.
> Limit the conversation topics to that. Agree with her even as she tries
> to turn that into an argument. That's it. No more. Do that for
> someone you share DNA with. You can write off ex-friends but not
> sisters. Life is too short not to do a brief kindness to someone who
> doesn't deserve it.

Ya know, I have been trying that strategy with one of my sisters since
my Mom died. I finally had enogh of "turning the other cheek" as she
was barking orders at a group of us who were supposed guests in her
home (at her insistence - I wanted to stay at a hotel), to wash her 36
year-old daughter's clothing while said daughter (the Bride-to-Be that
weekend) was sitting on her fat ass on the front porch, eating ice
cream. Her behavior that weekend was absolutely atrocious, and after
that visit, I decided enough was enough, dead Mother or not. Some
people don't merit recognition, not to mention kindness.

-L.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:09:10 -0700, Serene >
wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:34:01 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:
>
>> Life is too short not to do a brief kindness to someone who
>>doesn't deserve it.
>
>Life is too short to keep toxic people in my life.

Toxic! That's the word I was trying to remember when I made my first
post on this subject. My ex-sister has a severe mental illness that
she is in denial about. Therefore, she doesn't take her medications.
She's also an active alcoholic.

I speak to her on the phone from time to time, like when our favorite
aunt died and now, when my godchild, her daughter, is visiting with
her newborn son. We're cordial, but I don't want to get involved in
her soap operas.

If my neice has a dinner or other get-together at her place, I'll go.
And I'll be polite to her mother.

If my ex-brother, ex-sister and I all met as strangers, none of us
would persue relationships with the others. All we ever had in common
was our parents, and they're not around anymore.

Of course, there is much, much more. I'm not going to get into any
more details. But I stand my ground about not seeking or accepting an
emotional malignancy when I can avoid it.

Carol, frighteningly, the healthy one in the family

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:56:41 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

>In article >,
> The Cook > wrote:
>
>> rest. If you got a reputation for buying on Friday and returning on
>> Monday I am sure that you would have never taken anything on approval
>> again. And in a small town, people talk and the word gets around.
>
>Talk to a jeweler about what gets "bought" and "returned" a week or two
>later. They can tell.
>
>{ Exported from MasterCook Mac }
>
>Beef Jerky - Paul Hinrichs' recipe
>
>Recipe By: Barb Schaller post to r.f.cooking, 8-20-06
>Serving Size: 1
>Preparation Time: 0:00
>Categories: Miscellaneous
>
>Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
> Marinade
>1 cup soy sauce
>1 cup Worcestershire sauce
>1 tablespoon ground black pepper
>1 tablespoon onion powder
>1 tablespoon garlic powder
>1 tablespoon garam masala
>2 tablespoons kosher salt
>1 teaspoon Prague Powder #1 (nitrite based curing
> salt, allows low temp dehydration)
> Meat
>10 # London broil trimmed of fat
>
>Freeze until just partially set, about 3-4 hours, to ease slicing. Cut
>into 1/4" to 3/8" strips, either with or against the grain Marinate for
>24 hours, mixing it up a few times to insure homogenous coating. (A
>white trash bag is perfect for keeping it in the fridge during
>marination).
>
>Place marinated slices on dehydrator trays, each tray will hold about a
>pound. Set temperature on deydrator to 125 F and dehydrate about 15
>hours, rotating trays every few hours to insure even drying.
>
>(This, of course, can all be scaled down as needed...)
> ----------

Interesting to see the recipe. I was looking at his blog yesterday.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974