Serene wrote:

> I am not Dams, but why? I have limited time and energy. Why would I
> spend it on someone who regularly goes out of her way to harm me?

Because she's family. No other reason.


> There are people with whom that works as a strategy. There are others
> who are toxic, and any time in their presence is an invitation for
> pain.


Here's the root of our disagreement. Being kind a few times a year
isn't a strategy for changing them. They're not going to change. It is
a strategy for changing oneself into someone who isn't pained by a toxic
presence. You turn into the sort of person who shrugs her shoulders in
the face of manipulation and isn't bothered by it.


> I disagree.


I hear you loud and clear.


--Lia

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> Toxic! That's the word I was trying to remember when I made my first
> post on this subject. My ex-sister has a severe mental illness that
> she is in denial about. Therefore, she doesn't take her medications.
> She's also an active alcoholic.

Alcoholic! In my first post on the subject, I mentioned violence,
alcholism, incest and a few others as exceptions that would make cutting
someone off entirely the only sensible thing a person can do.

>
> I speak to her on the phone from time to time, like when our favorite
> aunt died and now, when my godchild, her daughter, is visiting with
> her newborn son. We're cordial, but I don't want to get involved in
> her soap operas.


Then you're already doing everything I suggested. Just a tiny scrap of
politeness. That's it.


> Carol, frighteningly, the healthy one in the family


And you know why you're the healthy one? Because you've figured out how
to see your family members a few times a year, how to treat them with
distance and kindness, and how not to get involved.


Dr. Phi--Lia

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Serene wrote:
>
> > I am not Dams, but why? I have limited time and energy. Why would I
> > spend it on someone who regularly goes out of her way to harm me?
>
> Because she's family. No other reason.

Adults get to choose their families. I know it's not what we've been
taught, but it's true. My family treats me as a person worthy of love
and good treatment -- other people are not family to me.

> > There are people with whom that works as a strategy. There are others
> > who are toxic, and any time in their presence is an invitation for
> > pain.
>
>
> Here's the root of our disagreement. Being kind a few times a year
> isn't a strategy for changing them.

I'm not talking about changing them. I'm talking about making my time
on this planet as free of unnecessary pain as possible. Some pain is
inevitable -- I'm not going to seek out more.

serene

Julia Altshuler > wrote in message
. ..
> I mentioned violence, alcholism, incest and a few others
> as exceptions that would make cutting someone off
> entirely the only sensible thing a person can do.

There are other -- harder driving -- reasons to sever a primary family
relationship beyond the limited list above... Secondary family can be
disassociated for many more reasons.

DiDD is a mature adult, making mature decisions, not only for herself
but others as well.

Subjecting oneself to someone on the pretence of making nice isn't
mature or adult; it's masochistic (or sadistic if you're inviting a
known family pariah to an event just "because they're family.")

The Ranger

Melba's Jammin' > wrote in message
...
> { Exported from MasterCook Mac }
>
> Beef Jerky - Paul Hinrichs' recipe
>
> Recipe By: Barb Schaller post to r.f.cooking, 8-20-06
> Serving Size: 1
> Preparation Time: 0:00
> Categories: Miscellaneous
>
> Amount Measure Ingredient Preparation Method
> Marinade
> 1 cup soy sauce
> 1 cup Worcestershire sauce
> 1 tablespoon ground black pepper
> 1 tablespoon onion powder
> 1 tablespoon garlic powder
> 1 tablespoon garam masala
> 2 tablespoons kosher salt
> 1 teaspoon Prague Powder #1 (nitrite based curing
> salt, allows low temp dehydration)
> Meat
> 10 # London broil trimmed of fat
>
> Freeze until just partially set, about 3-4 hours, to ease slicing.
> Cut into 1/4" to 3/8" strips, either with or against the grain.
> Marinate for 24 hours, mixing it up a few times to insure
> homogenous coating. (A white trash bag is perfect for
> keeping it in the fridge during marination).
>
> Place marinated slices on dehydrator trays, each tray will
> hold about a pound. Set temperature on deydrator to 125 F
> and dehydrate about 15 hours, rotating trays every few
> hours to insure even drying.

Do you need a dehydrator or can you use the oven on low temperature
(195°F to 220°F) over several hours?

The "dehydrator-free" Ranger

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:59:40 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
>> Toxic! That's the word I was trying to remember when I made my first
>> post on this subject. My ex-sister has a severe mental illness that
>> she is in denial about. Therefore, she doesn't take her medications.
>> She's also an active alcoholic.
>
>Alcoholic! In my first post on the subject, I mentioned violence,
>alcholism, incest and a few others as exceptions that would make cutting
>someone off entirely the only sensible thing a person can do.

See? That didn't even click at the time. *Everyone* in my family
is/was alcoholic, with the exception of my mom and me.

>> I speak to her on the phone from time to time, like when our favorite
>> aunt died and now, when my godchild, her daughter, is visiting with
>> her newborn son. We're cordial, but I don't want to get involved in
>> her soap operas.
>
>Then you're already doing everything I suggested. Just a tiny scrap of
>politeness. That's it.

Right. She's not in my life, but I don't have to try to match her
nastiness. Doesn't mean I'm wasting my precious holidays on her,
though. They're supposed to be happy times.

>> Carol, frighteningly, the healthy one in the family
>
>And you know why you're the healthy one? Because you've figured out how
>to see your family members a few times a year, how to treat them with
>distance and kindness, and how not to get involved.

Oh, the only time I've seen my brother in the past 10 years was at my
sister's husband's funeral. Haven't seen said sister in 3-4 years.
And those things give me peace.

Carol

The Ranger wrote:
> It was recently discussed in another venue that there seems to be an
> increase in the number of patron demanding comp for major and minor
> infractions during dining out. I did not experience this to the levels
> being assumed during my tour working in restaurants, nor have I
> witnessed it as a customer.
>
> What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you
> notice more people demanding to be comped for real and imaginary
> problems, no matter how insignificant? (I'm not talking about the
> extremes, either; a cockroach in the middle of the plate or the mouse
> that runs up a pants leg.)
>
> Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals
> for free as an entitlement?
>
> Just curious.
>
> The Ranger

Not my experience on the whole, although I did have a few experiences while
working in the dining industry. I've posted about them before. There was a
woman who claimed there was a screw in her glass of water. Considering the
glasses were stored upside down in racks it would be physically impossible
for a screw to be in her glass at the time she was served the water. Not to
mention even the most incompetent server would have noticed a screw in her
glass of water. She demanded to see the manager and requested her (quite
expensive) meal be comped. He showed her the door and invited her *not* to
come back. I guess she got her meal free after all, not that she'd had more
than a bite or two before trying to scam to get it comp'd.

Jill

Michael "Dog3" Lonergan wrote:
> "The Ranger" >
> :
>
>> It was recently discussed in another venue that there seems to be an
>> increase in the number of patron demanding comp for major and minor
>> infractions during dining out. I did not experience this to the
>> levels being assumed during my tour working in restaurants, nor have
>> I witnessed it as a customer.
>>
>> What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you
>> notice more people demanding to be comped for real and imaginary
>> problems, no matter how insignificant? (I'm not talking about the
>> extremes, either; a cockroach in the middle of the plate or the mouse
>> that runs up a pants leg.)
>>
>> Do you have associates (or even friends) that look at getting meals
>> for free as an entitlement?
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> The Ranger
>
> I've had one experience that was horrific. Our waiter just left the
> building to take the car back to his girlfriend. We were served
> drinks and after about 1/2 hour another server came by and said,
> "This station should not have been seated."

P.F. Chang's My friend and I went there for lunch and it was 40 minutes
after getting our water before someone came by asking if our order had been
taken. We'd tried in vain to get someone's attention and watched a table of
10 get served before anyone bothered to ask if we needed help. Hello, it's
called a *lunch hour* for a reason! And we were sitting right next to the
coffee/tea station! Hello! And the food was very mediocre. Give me a
break. And no, I don't give second chances. Never went back. There was
simply no excuse for such shoddy service.

Jill

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 07:59:31 -0700, "The Ranger"
> wrote:

>Julia Altshuler > wrote in message
...
>> I mentioned violence, alcholism, incest and a few others
>> as exceptions that would make cutting someone off
>> entirely the only sensible thing a person can do.
>
>There are other -- harder driving -- reasons to sever a primary family
>relationship beyond the limited list above... Secondary family can be
>disassociated for many more reasons.
>
>DiDD is a mature adult, making mature decisions, not only for herself
>but others as well.

Wow, thank you!

>Subjecting oneself to someone on the pretence of making nice isn't
>mature or adult; it's masochistic (or sadistic if you're inviting a
>known family pariah to an event just "because they're family.")

Any time you consistently walk away from someone feeling victimized,
it's time to take a long, hard look at that relationship.

Carol

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

>
> >Then you're already doing everything I suggested. Just a tiny scrap of
> >politeness. That's it.
>
> Right. She's not in my life, but I don't have to try to match her
> nastiness. Doesn't mean I'm wasting my precious holidays on her,
> though. They're supposed to be happy times.
>
> >> Carol, frighteningly, the healthy one in the family
> >
> >And you know why you're the healthy one? Because you've figured out how
> >to see your family members a few times a year, how to treat them with
> >distance and kindness, and how not to get involved.
>
> Oh, the only time I've seen my brother in the past 10 years was at my
> sister's husband's funeral. Haven't seen said sister in 3-4 years.
> And those things give me peace.

Life is too short to waste it on people who drag you down, and even more so
for those who try to pull you down. The trick is not to let them drag you
down. I have a few relatives for whom I have no use. I do not plan to do
things with them. While I won't get together with them personally, I do not
avoid functions to which they have also been invited. I just don't bother
talking to them. I can say hello politely and find someone more pleasant to
spend some time with. The most important thing is not to let them spoil your
time.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:31:47 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>Life is too short to waste it on people who drag you down, and even more so
>for those who try to pull you down. The trick is not to let them drag you
>down. I have a few relatives for whom I have no use. I do not plan to do
>things with them. While I won't get together with them personally, I do not
>avoid functions to which they have also been invited. I just don't bother
>talking to them. I can say hello politely and find someone more pleasant to
>spend some time with. The most important thing is not to let them spoil your
>time.

Brilliantly stated!

The Ranger wrote:

> There are other -- harder driving -- reasons to sever a primary family
> relationship beyond the limited list above... Secondary family can be
> disassociated for many more reasons.
>
> DiDD is a mature adult, making mature decisions, not only for herself
> but others as well.


I'm interested in your opinions. What are the other, harder driving,
reasons to sever a primary family relationship? My list included
violence, incest, alcoholism, drug abuse, and child abuse. I wondered
about including "persistent, large-scale, free-loading" as when an adult
won't work, move out, pay bills, or repay loans, but then I thought that
after the freeloader has been kicked out, there's no reason not to
maintain a polite relationship and deliver a kindness now and then.


DiDD stands for? I usually keep track but missed that one.


--Lia

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:35:17 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>The Ranger wrote:
>
>> There are other -- harder driving -- reasons to sever a primary family
>> relationship beyond the limited list above... Secondary family can be
>> disassociated for many more reasons.
>>
>> DiDD is a mature adult, making mature decisions, not only for herself
>> but others as well.
>
>I'm interested in your opinions. What are the other, harder driving,
>reasons to sever a primary family relationship? My list included
>violence, incest, alcoholism, drug abuse, and child abuse. I wondered
>about including "persistent, large-scale, free-loading" as when an adult
>won't work, move out, pay bills, or repay loans, but then I thought that
>after the freeloader has been kicked out, there's no reason not to
>maintain a polite relationship and deliver a kindness now and then.

See? I missed more of your relevant ones. Child abuse (physical,
verbal, and emotional - and now she has four grandchildren), and drug
abuse. They're so much a part of her life, that I hardly see it
anymore, just as I was oblivious to the alcholism in my family until I
got away from it and saw how the other half lived.

And how healthy is it to maintain a relationship with someone who says
they "hate" almost everyone they know? Some people are just emotional
poison.

>DiDD stands for? I usually keep track but missed that one.

DidD = Damsel in dis Dress

Carol, over and out

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

>
> See? I missed more of your relevant ones.

Don't you just love it when it seems like 2 rational people are
disagreeing, but they're not afterall?


> DidD = Damsel in dis Dress


Ah, I was trying to work it into the daughter-unit thing, and it wasn't
working. Thanks.


--Lia

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 17:59:48 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> wrote:

>Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
>> See? I missed more of your relevant ones.
>
>Don't you just love it when it seems like 2 rational people are
>disagreeing, but they're not afterall?

Who you calling rational??

Carol, looking at Julia all squinty-eyed

In article >,
"The Ranger" > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' > wrote in message
> ...

> Do you need a dehydrator or can you use the oven on low temperature
> (195°F to 220°F) over several hours?
>
> The "dehydrator-free" Ranger

Beats me. I was just posting something to go with the jerks who buy
clothes to wear to events and then return them. "-)
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
http://jamlady.eboard.com
http://web.mac.com/barbschaller

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I'm interested in your opinions. What are the other, harder driving,
> reasons to sever a primary family relationship? My list included
> violence, incest, alcoholism, drug abuse, and child abuse. I wondered
> about including "persistent, large-scale, free-loading" as when an adult
> won't work, move out, pay bills, or repay loans, but then I thought that
> after the freeloader has been kicked out, there's no reason not to
> maintain a polite relationship and deliver a kindness now and then.
>
>
> DiDD stands for? I usually keep track but missed that one.
>
>
> --Lia

Why can't you accept that some people want nothing to do with certain family
members that don't fit into your criteria?

I'd be willing to bet those kinds of decisions are only made after several
years worth of pain and trauma.

Ms P

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
> Serene wrote:
>
>> I am not Dams, but why? I have limited time and energy. Why would I
>> spend it on someone who regularly goes out of her way to harm me?
>
> Because she's family. No other reason.
>
>
>> There are people with whom that works as a strategy. There are others
>> who are toxic, and any time in their presence is an invitation for
>> pain.
>
>
> Here's the root of our disagreement. Being kind a few times a year isn't
> a strategy for changing them. They're not going to change. It is a
> strategy for changing oneself into someone who isn't pained by a toxic
> presence. You turn into the sort of person who shrugs her shoulders in
> the face of manipulation and isn't bothered by it.

And if you can't shrug your shoulders, laugh your ass off. That's been my
strategy for dealing with the Step-Monster and SIL for the past 6 years.

Lisa Ann

"Damsel in dis Dress" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 08:59:40 -0400, Julia Altshuler
> > wrote:
>
>>Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>
>>> Toxic! That's the word I was trying to remember when I made my first
>>> post on this subject. My ex-sister has a severe mental illness that
>>> she is in denial about. Therefore, she doesn't take her medications.
>>> She's also an active alcoholic.
>>
>>Alcoholic! In my first post on the subject, I mentioned violence,
>>alcholism, incest and a few others as exceptions that would make cutting
>>someone off entirely the only sensible thing a person can do.
>
> See? That didn't even click at the time. *Everyone* in my family
> is/was alcoholic, with the exception of my mom and me.
>
>>> I speak to her on the phone from time to time, like when our favorite
>>> aunt died and now, when my godchild, her daughter, is visiting with
>>> her newborn son. We're cordial, but I don't want to get involved in
>>> her soap operas.
>>
>>Then you're already doing everything I suggested. Just a tiny scrap of
>>politeness. That's it.
>
> Right. She's not in my life, but I don't have to try to match her
> nastiness. Doesn't mean I'm wasting my precious holidays on her,
> though. They're supposed to be happy times.
>
>>> Carol, frighteningly, the healthy one in the family
>>
>>And you know why you're the healthy one? Because you've figured out how
>>to see your family members a few times a year, how to treat them with
>>distance and kindness, and how not to get involved.
>
> Oh, the only time I've seen my brother in the past 10 years was at my
> sister's husband's funeral. Haven't seen said sister in 3-4 years.
> And those things give me peace.

I figure the next time I see my father, there will also be a dead body in
the room with us. He called me the day after my biopsy; the entire
conversation was about how poor he'd become since he'd retired. My mom
listened to my end of the conversation with increasing disbelief. "Did he
say anything at all about you being sick?" she asked when I hung up.
"Nope!"

I lived in Indianapolis for 5 years. My father lived about 6 miles from me.
In that entire time, I wasn't invited to their house, and the one time I
asked to stop by to pick something up, I was informed I could pick it up
from the mailbox, but could not come in. (Actually, that was the
Step-monster who told me that, but I figure if my father wasn't okay with
it, he would have told her, "No, let her come in.")

He did take me out to dinner the first Christmas I was there. We went to
Shapiros, a famous deli downtown. I'd never been there, and was craving a
really good reuben sandwich. He kept stressing that the sandwiches were
really, really big. Huge. Enormous. So when we met up with the
step-monster, and I placed my order for a reuben, he interjected "Just half
a sandwich for her." Unfortunately, they didn't do half-reubens, so I got a
half corned beef on rye with swiss and mustard. I never did figure out what
he thought I was going to do with the other half of the reuben...probably
something irresponsible like take it home and eat it for lunch the next day.
It was just as well that I didn't get a whole sandwich - step-monster kept
glaring at me with a "Die bitch die" look on her face, and it's very
difficult to eat under those circumstances.

What made this entire episode so funny was that I'd lost a great deal of
weight that year, and on the way to the restaurant (he did come pick me up),
he lectured me about not eating properly. Irony has never been his strong
suit.

I'm nice and polite when I see them...but you better believe I write about
the experiences later!

Lisa Ann

ms_peacock wrote:

> Why can't you accept that some people want nothing to do with certain family
> members that don't fit into your criteria?
>
> I'd be willing to bet those kinds of decisions are only made after several
> years worth of pain and trauma.

I am sure that most of us have relatives that we don't want to deal with. More
often it is inlaws, the people who came along as part of a package back in the
days when we didn't realize how much they have in common with the part of the
package that you did bargain for.

Personality problems are bad enough but I hate to imagine how much of a problem
mental illness is across the country. I have brother who suffers from
depression, his son who has some sort of a problem that will likely eventually
be diagnosed as a mental disorder, a cousin who is manic depressive. My wife has
a cousin who is manic depressive. These are the people for whom we make special
allowances because they have a legitimate problem.

Then there are the personality problems. My depressed brother's wife is one of
the most boring people I know. No one in that family knows how to communicate.
At family parties the only one who can carry on a conversation is other son's
wife. My late brother in law's ex wife is a little more interesting, but she is
fanatical about whatever it is she is into for the decade. A conversation with
here is like listening to a broken record. However, she gets bonus points for
raising nice kids. Her three (grown) children are my favourite relatives.

Then there are the alcoholics. Two of my brothers are heavy drinkers. One drinks
more or less socially, no doubt to excess, but he is pleasant when he drinks. He
and I have a very good relationship. The other is a drunken ass. He lives to
drink. Some people say and do things when they are drunk that you can excuse as
the alcohol talking, but he drinks so much all the time that it is him talking.
The booze has addled his thought processes. He has a bit of a personality
disorder. He was always a tattle tale as a kid and as an adult he is still a rat
boy. He is mad at me and doesn't talk to me anymore. That is fine by me. After
hearing what he said about me behind my back I have no interest in dealing with
him.

As dysfunctional as my family is, I have it pretty good compared to a lot of
people I know. I have one friend who attended a large family wedding and didn't
realize until near the end that her father was there. She went to look for him
and he hardly gave her the time of day. Then there is my (good) niece's inlaws.
Her father in law is bailing her and her husband out of financial troubles. They
are under the impression that when the husband's father died the evil step
mother inherited everything and he got nothing. The poor stepmother has been
vilified, and it's not even true. It was the guy, not the stepmother, who
inherited the father's estate, and he lost it all in bad investments. My niece
and her husband are ****ed right off at the unfairness of the situation.

In article >, Dave Smith > wrote:
>ms_peacock wrote:
>
>> Why can't you accept that some people want nothing to do with certain family
>> members that don't fit into your criteria?
>>
>> I'd be willing to bet those kinds of decisions are only made after several
>> years worth of pain and trauma.
>
>I am sure that most of us have relatives that we don't want to deal with. More
>often it is inlaws, the people who came along as part of a package back in the
>days when we didn't realize how much they have in common with the part of the
>package that you did bargain for.

Confucious says (or would have):

The sheila marries the bloke thinking she can change him; and she
can't.

The bloke marries the sheila thinking she won't change; and she does.

Cheers, Phred.

--
LID

Cheryl Perkins wrote:

> Everyone has relatives they don't get on with and don't see. I think the
> emphasis on willingness to make allowances for family is partly based on
> the role a family can and often does play that isn't replaced by
> relationships with friends, professionals - and often not even new
> families created by marriage & equivalents. A family has history - bad or
> good, our families created part of each of us. Our family teaches us,
> first hand, how to relate to those who are incompetant, cruel, sick and
> incompatible as well as those who are efficient, kind, and congenial.
> Sometimes it does this very badly, and escape is the only solution, but I
> think that's sad - and I personally have very varied degrees of
> relationships to my numerous relations, ranging from close to 'wouldn't
> recognize him/her if I passed them on the street'.


Thanks for saying it so well. This is what I've been driving at, not
that people should have to put up with everything from family, but that
they should put up with more from family than they would from some
stranger on the street or even a long-time friend or acquaintance. The
stakes are raised.


--Lia

Julia Altshuler > wrote in message
. ..
> > "Family and relationships vary"

> This is what I've been driving at, not that people should
> have to put up with everything from family, but that
> they should put up with more from family than they
> would from some stranger on the street or even a
> long-time friend or acquaintance. The stakes are raised.

Nonsense.

Most people won't-don't-can't cut family off at the first transgression.
It's when the actions of the individual have become serial,
pathological, and/or unsafe that this ultimate decision to
cut-the-losses-at-its-current-level is made.

The Ranger

Julia Altshuler wrote:
> Serene wrote:
>
> > I am not Dams, but why? I have limited time and energy. Why would I
> > spend it on someone who regularly goes out of her way to harm me?
>
> Because she's family. No other reason.

Sometimes that's not enough.

-L.

Julia Altshuler wrote:

>
> Thanks for saying it so well. This is what I've been driving at, not
> that people should have to put up with everything from family, but that
> they should put up with more from family than they would from some
> stranger on the street or even a long-time friend or acquaintance. The
> stakes are raised.

Oh I am sure that we are all willing to put up with a lot more from relatives
than we do from strangers. Yet, there are limits. Sometimes those limits are
way, way past what we would tolerate from more colleagues or strangers.

I saw the true colours come out in my brothers after my father died. My oldest
brother was upset that he did not inherit the house. Being the oldest son, he
expected it. My other two brothers and never thought much about the will. We
fully expected that he would leave everything to our mother, which he did. But
then the younger brother threw me for a loop when he indicated an interest in
buying her house. He expected that because he was buying it from his mother he
should not have to pay as much for it as if it was on the open market. To make
matters worse, he thought that since he expected to inherit 1/4 of her estate,
that he should only have to pay 3/4 of that reduced price. I don't know what
he expected her to live on. She needed the capital to pay for her new condo and
some money to live on. He couldn't see how unfair that idea was.

The Ranger wrote:
> It was recently discussed in another venue that there seems to be an
> increase in the number of patron demanding comp for major and minor
> infractions during dining out....

I've never asked to be comped, and if I don't like the food or service,
I just don't return.

One evening about ten years ago, I was eating in a small family style
restaurant and found a large piece of twisted metal in my mashed
potatos that looked like a piece of can that had been twisted and cut
by a can opener. Almots cut my mouth on it- I'm surprised I didn't.

I called the waiter over and showed it to him. He called the owner, who
took it, looked at it, and wordlessly walked away. No apology- which is
all I wanted- no offers of a comp, not even some fresh potatoes. He
just took it and left. I never returned.

"ke8yy" > wrote

> I called the waiter over and showed it to him. He called the owner, who
> took it, looked at it, and wordlessly walked away. No apology- which is
> all I wanted- no offers of a comp, not even some fresh potatoes. He
> just took it and left. I never returned.

Did you pay? Just curious.

nancy

ke8yy wrote:

> I've never asked to be comped, and if I don't like the food or service,
> I just don't return.
>
> One evening about ten years ago, I was eating in a small family style
> restaurant and found a large piece of twisted metal in my mashed
> potatos that looked like a piece of can that had been twisted and cut
> by a can opener. Almost cut my mouth on it- I'm surprised I didn't.
>
> I called the waiter over and showed it to him. He called the owner, who
> took it, looked at it, and wordlessly walked away. No apology- which is
> all I wanted- no offers of a comp, not even some fresh potatoes. He
> just took it and left. I never returned.



In a weird sick way, there's logic to what the owner did. If I found
sharp metal in my food, I wouldn't go back to a restaurant no matter
what the owner did. He could offer me a comped meal; he could offer me
the next 10 meals for free, but there's no way I'd be returning to that
restaurant. I'd be thinking about notifying the department of health.
I'd be thinking about law suits. That's not to say that I'd do either
of those last two, but I'm sure I wouldn't go back. We're not talking
about having to wait a long time or getting a steak medium when you
wanted medium rare. Sharp metal is up there with very bad mistakes.


With that in mind, the owner knew he'd lost a customer anyway. It makes
sense for him to get his money for that one meal without admitting fault.


How long did the small family style restaurant stay in business after
that? How many people did you tell about your experience there?


--Lia

Julia Altshuler > wrote in message
. ..
> The Ranger wrote:
>
> > There are other -- harder driving -- reasons to sever
> > a primary family relationship beyond the limited list
> > above... Secondary family can be disassociated for
> > many more reasons.
> >
> > DiDD is a mature adult, making mature decisions, not
> > only for herself but others as well.

> I'm interested in your opinions. What are the other,
> harder driving, reasons to sever a primary family
> relationship? My list included violence, incest,
> alcoholism, drug abuse, and child abuse. I wondered
> about including "persistent, large-scale, free-loading"
> as when an adult won't work, move out, pay bills,
> or repay loans, but then I thought that after the
> freeloader has been kicked out, there's no reason not
> to maintain a polite relationship and deliver a kindness
> now and then.

In my case, it was watching as the family member chose a lifestyle that
I did not wish to be a part of. There was no violence, drug abuse, or
child abuse against me or mine. He is a free-loading wastrel but that
was part of his never-ending charm.

> DiDD stands for? I usually keep track but missed that one.

Oops. "DidD" -- Damsel in dis Dress.

The Ranger

"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
. ..
> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
>> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
>> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because
>> we
>> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to
>> that.
>> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.
>
>
> So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday.

I guess an "X" mas card is suitable for an "X" sister?

> What are the experiences of dining-out participants in RFC? Do you
> notice more people demanding to be comped for real and imaginary
> problems, no matter how insignificant?

I haven't really noticed an increase in people demanding comps. I've
been partially comped a few times, once because my meal, instead of
being boxed up, was thrown out. Another time, while dining out with
family, we ordered a large appetizer that someone dropped in the
kitchen. In the time it took to make another one, we had already
received our entrees, so that was taken off the bill, and we were given
free dessert.

In both instances, however, we didn't asked for comps; it was just
offered to us.






~Nicole

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:30:15 GMT, "Mordechai Housman"
> wrote:

>"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
...
>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>
>>> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
>>> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because
>>> we
>>> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to
>>> that.
>>> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.
>>
>> So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday.
>
>I guess an "X" mas card is suitable for an "X" sister?

THWACK! (You've earned it!)

Carol

Naomi > asked in message
oups.com...
> The Ranger wrote:

> > I hope it's as simple as a very vocal minority being viewed
> > electronically and not, as the cliche goes, the tip of the
> > iceberg.
> >
> Is this about C***H****? Some people on that board really
> like to make stuff up, I think.
>
The topic was posted there recently but it's not about that venue. I've
also seen it noted elsewhere and was curious about how widespread the
problem really was.

The Ranger

Naomi > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The Ranger wrote:
> > Naomi > asked in message
oups.com...
> > > The Ranger wrote:

> > > > I hope it's as simple as a very vocal minority being
> > > > viewed electronically and not, as the cliche goes, the
> > > > tip of the iceberg.
> > > >
> > > Is this about C***H****? Some people on that board
> > > really like to make stuff up, I think.
> > >
> > The topic was posted there recently but it's not about
> > that venue. I've also seen it noted elsewhere and was
> > curious about how widespread the problem really was.
> >
> I wasn't so much saying that people like to invent dining
> experiences on that board as that people like to invent
> trends. Also, on the NAB section of that board, a lot of
> posts are about "trends" or claim to be general, but they
> are really not so covert slams against specific other
> posters.

Hmmm. I never really noticed that side of NAF. Interesting. Any
particular posters getting slammed regularly?

The Ranger

"Damsel in dis Dress" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:30:15 GMT, "Mordechai Housman"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
m...
>>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
>>>> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because
>>>> we
>>>> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to
>>>> that.
>>>> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.
>>>
>>> So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday.
>>
>>I guess an "X" mas card is suitable for an "X" sister?
>
> THWACK! (You've earned it!)

I disagree. I thought it was a darned good line, worthy of a smile or
smirk. But thanks for the thwack anyway.

On Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:04:46 GMT, "Mordechai Housman"
> wrote:

>"Damsel in dis Dress" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 14:30:15 GMT, "Mordechai Housman"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>"Julia Altshuler" > wrote in message
om...
>>>> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I can't agree fully with that one. My ex-sister is a drama queen,
>>>>> martyr, and the most negative person I've ever known. Just because
>>>>> we
>>>>> have some DNA in common is no reason for me to subject myself to
>>>>> that.
>>>>> I have enough problems of my own without compounding them further.
>>>>
>>>> So send her a Xmas card and call her on her birthday.
>>>
>>>I guess an "X" mas card is suitable for an "X" sister?
>>
>> THWACK! (You've earned it!)
>
>I disagree. I thought it was a darned good line, worthy of a smile or
>smirk. But thanks for the thwack anyway.

It got a smile, but also a groan, so you did earn your THWACK! It's
sorta like saying, "Attaboy!" Welcome to the elite thwack receivers.

Carol

> My husband left a tip based on the bill including the soup.

He tipped...?
in Canada...?
He's automatically nominated for Sainthood....!

"~-x-y-~" > wrote in message
news:kcvHg.464701$IK3.332847@pd7tw1no...
>> My husband left a tip based on the bill including the soup.
>
> He tipped...?
> in Canada...?
> He's automatically nominated for Sainthood....!
>
>--------

Are you not supposed to? I did when I was there... ??

--
Cyndi (again)

> Are you not supposed to? I did when I was there... ??

Just a wee bit of sarcasm from me...
Many people don't tip at all...

Servers in Canada are actually paid a reasonable wage...
So tips are what they should be, a bonus for superior service...

I typically tip 10% for good service, and I know most servers are quite
delighted with that...

"~-x-y-~" > wrote in message
news:XpHHg.458262$iF6.250594@pd7tw2no...
>> Are you not supposed to? I did when I was there... ??
>
> Just a wee bit of sarcasm from me...
> Many people don't tip at all...
>
> Servers in Canada are actually paid a reasonable wage...
> So tips are what they should be, a bonus for superior service...
>
> I typically tip 10% for good service, and I know most servers are quite
> delighted with that...
> ===========

Thank you! I generally tip 10 - 15 %. The service has to be really
outstanding for me to do more than that.

I have no intentions of getting into that whole tipping war... but if I
were/did... I'd probably feel the need to explain that I tip what I can
afford and take the services rendered into consideration. I don't want to
hear about how hard the servers work or how little they're paid... I was one
too - a couple of times. Fact is, I expect decent service and don't even
get me started on how everyones cost of living has gone up but their pay
hasn't... the prices on the menu have gone up therefore, my tip to them
apparently has gone up too. If my tip is not appreciated nor considered
'enough' - that's too bad. They either need to step up their quality of
service and/or find another job.

But hey... I don't want to get into a Tip War. <giggle>


--
Cyndi (again)