First of all, excuse me for misspelling previously the Port wine word.

I am planning a trip to the Douro region.

Can you all please tell me anythign related to tourism in that area
and Port wines too.

I want to travel by boat the Douro river, from what city to what city
is the longest distance I can travel by boat? YOu know any boat
companies or websites you have used before I can refer too ?

What are the best Port wine wineries to visit?

What is the best Port wine guide book ?

What is a very good book on the entire Port wine region ?

What are the cities I should stop by and visit during the Douro trip
travelling ?

Thanks,

Mario

I found the book "Port and the Douro" by Richard Mason, Faber & Faber
London-New York, ISBN 0-571-19522-9. to be a very good guide about Port
wine, Port Wine making and the Douro Region in general.

The Douro river can be travelled by tourist boat from Oporto up to the
Spanish border, in practice to Pocinho.

From your address I presume you're Italian, so you would be able to
read/understand Portuguese. In that case
http://www.douronet.com/cgi-bin/ilin...20no%20Dour o
gives you a list of all sites offering boat trips. Don't forget however,
there is also a railway along the Douro from Porto to Pocinho which makes
for a nice alternative for at least part of the journey.

As far as cities go, you would want to stop at Regua and Pinhao.

I don't have experience with those boat trips; I just live there and have my
own boat ;-)

HTH, greetings from the Douro region

rob van lopik


"Mario" > wrote in message
om...
> First of all, excuse me for misspelling previously the Port wine word.
>
> I am planning a trip to the Douro region.
>
> Can you all please tell me anythign related to tourism in that area
> and Port wines too.
>
> I want to travel by boat the Douro river, from what city to what city
> is the longest distance I can travel by boat? YOu know any boat
> companies or websites you have used before I can refer too ?
>
> What are the best Port wine wineries to visit?
>
> What is the best Port wine guide book ?
>
> What is a very good book on the entire Port wine region ?
>
> What are the cities I should stop by and visit during the Douro trip
> travelling ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario


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"Robert A.M. van Lopik" > wrote:

> From your address I presume you're Italian, so you would be able to
> read/understand Portuguese.

??? The native language of Italians is Italian, not Portuguese! Although
both are derived from Latin, they are no more similar to one another than
English and German. To illustrate the immense difference, let's take Mario's
question:

English: Which cities should I visit?

German: Welche Städte sollte ich besichtigen?

Italian: Quali città dovrei visitare?

Portuguese: Que cidades devo eu visitar?

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert A.M. van Lopik" > wrote:
>
> > From your address I presume you're Italian, so you would be able to
> > read/understand Portuguese.
>
> ??? The native language of Italians is Italian, not Portuguese! Although
> both are derived from Latin, they are no more similar to one another than
> English and German. To illustrate the immense difference, let's take
Mario's
> question:
>
> English: Which cities should I visit?
>
> German: Welche Städte sollte ich besichtigen?
>
> Italian: Quali città dovrei visitare?
>
> Portuguese: Que cidades devo eu visitar?
>
Of course I know they speak Italian in Italy. I only said he would be alble
to _understand_ .... In
fact, you illustrate my point. Your two sentences are sufficiently similiar
to be understandable for the other, contrary to your German example.

On international conferences I always noticed that Italians and Portuguese
seem to understand each other quite well.

ciao
rob van lopik



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Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:09:59 -0000: "Robert A.M. van Lopik"
>: in soc.culture.portuguese:

>Of course I know they speak Italian in Italy. I only said he would be alble
>to _understand_ .... In
>fact, you illustrate my point. Your two sentences are sufficiently similiar
>to be understandable for the other, contrary to your German example.
>
>On international conferences I always noticed that Italians and Portuguese
>seem to understand each other quite well.

The fact that I can read quite some Italian, without ever having
learnt it, on the basis of poor French, poor Spanish, and gradually
improving but still leaving much to be desired Portuguese, further
illustrates that point.

--
Ruud Harmsen, http://rudhar.com/

"Ruud Harmsen" <"ar-aitch-ay" at rudhar.com> wrote:

> The fact that I can read quite some Italian, without ever having
> learnt it, on the basis of poor French, poor Spanish, and gradually
> improving but still leaving much to be desired Portuguese, further
> illustrates that point.

There are enough similarities to pick up a few words of -any- Latin-based
language on the basis of having studied other Latin-based languages. It's
also very easy to see obscure "similarities" when a phrase is translated for
you (as in my earlier examples, in which only one word in the Italian was
actually similar to the Portuguese). That's a far cry from being able to
"read/understand" a language. The reason that "Italians" and "Portuguese"
seem to understand each other at international conferences, is because the
typical educated European (such as would attend such conferences) is
multi-lingual.

Butter is "burro" in Italian, somewhat similar to "beurre" in French. If you
know that the two have the same meaning, it is easy to see the "similarity".
If you did not already know this, I doubt you would derive the meaning of
one from the other. "Burro" is quite different than "manteiga" in Portuguese
(although "manteiga" is somewhat similar to "mantequilla" in Spanish). It's
always amusing to see an Italian tourist in Spain or Portugal requesting
"burro" in a restaurant.

> There are enough similarities to pick up a few words of -any- Latin-based
> language on the basis of having studied other Latin-based languages. It's
> also very easy to see obscure "similarities" when a phrase is translated
for
> you (as in my earlier examples, in which only one word in the Italian was
> actually similar to the Portuguese). That's a far cry from being able to
> "read/understand" a language. The reason that "Italians" and "Portuguese"
> seem to understand each other at international conferences, is because the
> typical educated European (such as would attend such conferences) is
> multi-lingual.
>
> Butter is "burro" in Italian, somewhat similar to "beurre" in French. If
you
> know that the two have the same meaning, it is easy to see the
"similarity".
> If you did not already know this, I doubt you would derive the meaning of
> one from the other. "Burro" is quite different than "manteiga" in
Portuguese
> (although "manteiga" is somewhat similar to "mantequilla" in Spanish).
It's
> always amusing to see an Italian tourist in Spain or Portugal requesting
> "burro" in a restaurant.

I remember sitting down for breakfast in a Portuguese hotel once and looked
at the sachets of butter/jam.
I picked up one which said burro, spread it onto my roll with some Jam, then
took a bite and yukkk... Burro is a brand of soft cheese.

"Negodki" > wrote in message
...
> "Ruud Harmsen" <"ar-aitch-ay" at rudhar.com> wrote:
>
> > The fact that I can read quite some Italian, without ever having
> > learnt it, on the basis of poor French, poor Spanish, and gradually
> > improving but still leaving much to be desired Portuguese, further
> > illustrates that point.
>
> There are enough similarities to pick up a few words of -any- Latin-based
> language on the basis of having studied other Latin-based languages. It's
> also very easy to see obscure "similarities" when a phrase is translated
for
> you (as in my earlier examples, in which only one word in the Italian was
> actually similar to the Portuguese). That's a far cry from being able to
> "read/understand" a language. The reason that "Italians" and "Portuguese"
> seem to understand each other at international conferences, is because the
> typical educated European (such as would attend such conferences) is
> multi-lingual.
>
> Butter is "burro" in Italian, somewhat similar to "beurre" in French. If
you
> know that the two have the same meaning, it is easy to see the
"similarity".
> If you did not already know this, I doubt you would derive the meaning of
> one from the other. "Burro" is quite different than "manteiga" in
Portuguese
> (although "manteiga" is somewhat similar to "mantequilla" in Spanish).
It's
> always amusing to see an Italian tourist in Spain or Portugal requesting
> "burro" in a restaurant.
>
You are making more of my original suggestion than I intended. It's no use
talking about individual words, but in a certain context they may make
sense. And your last example is about actively using another language, which
is indeed much more difficult. But when I would _read_ "burro" in an Italian
restaurant, I would probably associate it with French "beurre" rather than
Portuguese "burro".

Anyway, my original posting, was meant to say:
"Given the fact that Mario is Italian, that he evidently knows English
reasonably well, is interested in a limited subject domain (i.e. boat trips
on the rivier Douro and Port wine), he might get some useful information
reading web pages on the subject, that are written in another Roman language
(i.e. Portuguese), but specifically meant to be informative (as opposed to,
say, poetical) on the given subject."

OK?

rob van lopik


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May I suggest you to try this site?

http://www.vintage.jazznet.pt

I think you will find whatever you wish to find in the Douro valley, there.

"Mario" > escreveu na mensagem
om...
> First of all, excuse me for misspelling previously the Port wine word.
>
> I am planning a trip to the Douro region.
>
> Can you all please tell me anythign related to tourism in that area
> and Port wines too.
>
> I want to travel by boat the Douro river, from what city to what city
> is the longest distance I can travel by boat? YOu know any boat
> companies or websites you have used before I can refer too ?
>
> What are the best Port wine wineries to visit?
>
> What is the best Port wine guide book ?
>
> What is a very good book on the entire Port wine region ?
>
> What are the cities I should stop by and visit during the Douro trip
> travelling ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mario

I dont understand why there is so much people in this world that
instead of helping complain or their life or are so picky on others.

It is very easy to understand written or spoken portuguese, spanish or
italian between these languages and you dont have to be a genious.



>
> > From your address I presume you're Italian, so you would be able to
> > read/understand Portuguese.
>
> ??? The native language of Italians is Italian, not Portuguese! Although
> both are derived from Latin, they are no more similar to one another than
> English and German. To illustrate the immense difference, let's take Mario's
> question:
>
> English: Which cities should I visit?
>
> German: Welche Städte sollte ich besichtigen?
>
> Italian: Quali città dovrei visitare?
>
> Portuguese: Que cidades devo eu visitar?

"Mario" > wrote:

> I dont understand why there is so much people in this world that
> instead of helping complain or their life or are so picky on others.

Quizás porque no encontraron la conclusión exacta. Talvez porque não
consideraram oferecido "recomende" para ser útil. Forse perché hanno pensato
stavano essendo utili.

> It is very easy to understand written or spoken portuguese, spanish or
> italian between these languages and you dont have to be a genious.

Ho certa conoscenza di circa quaranta sette lingue, e non trovo la
transizione fra le lingue Latino-basate per essere così facile mentre
descrivete. Forse uno effettivamente deve essere un genious. Li saluto!