When was it invented in a form we'd recognize today? Where? By whom?

What were its antecedents?

When did it first appear in America? Where? What was it like then?

Someone on a list I read provided a recipe that includes elbow
macaroni and cheddar cheese melted into a roux-based white sauce and
says "This recipe was passed down since 1791, as far as the family can
research and is pure plantation southern." The writer goes on to say,
"I cannot provide what was used by the family back in the 1700's.
However, I do have great aunts that might shed some light on this. For
the last 100 years, I know for certain this is the family recipe
handed down."

I'm profoundly skeptical that anything like macaroni and cheese was a
staple back that far. But I've been wrong about most things, so what
the hell...

I expect a full report on my desk in the morning.

Along with a sample of your best example.

Pastorio

The earliest printed American recipe I know is from 1802, distributed by a
French macaroni maker named Louis Fresnaye, for "Vermicelli prepared like
pudding." in Philadelphia, and reprinted in _35 Recipes from the Larder
Invaded_, part of a 1986 exhibition curated by William Woys Weaver. (It's
also in my history book.)

So before that, it was French food, from the American point of view. 1791 is
not an impossible date, since there were Huguenots in the South from the
17th Century, although I associate the dish with Fresnaye and other refugees
from the French Revolution, for which 1791 was a little early. I would think
Jefferson might have tried something like this and perhaps passed it on to
Mary Randolph. Hannah Glasse has a vermicelli pudding, but with marrow and
sweet fruits.

Of course, cheese was an option on pasta for thousands of years, and is
probably so noted in Renaissance cookbooks, although I am pretty sure it is
not in the LIbro de Koch/Libro de Guisados. I got some in Italian last
summer, and I will look in those, but this is making me hungry, so now I am
going out to dinner!


--
-Mark H. Zanger
author, The American History Cookbook, The American Ethnic Cookbook for
Students
www.ethnicook.com
www.historycook.com

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> When was it invented in a form we'd recognize today? Where? By whom?
>
> What were its antecedents?
>
> When did it first appear in America? Where? What was it like then?
>
> Someone on a list I read provided a recipe that includes elbow macaroni
> and cheddar cheese melted into a roux-based white sauce and says "This
> recipe was passed down since 1791, as far as the family can research and
> is pure plantation southern." The writer goes on to say, "I cannot provide
> what was used by the family back in the 1700's. However, I do have great
> aunts that might shed some light on this. For the last 100 years, I know
> for certain this is the family recipe handed down."
>
> I'm profoundly skeptical that anything like macaroni and cheese was a
> staple back that far. But I've been wrong about most things, so what the
> hell...
>
> I expect a full report on my desk in the morning.
>
> Along with a sample of your best example.
>
> Pastorio
>

The earliest printed American recipe I know is from 1802, distributed by a
French macaroni maker named Louis Fresnaye, for "Vermicelli prepared like
pudding." in Philadelphia, and reprinted in _35 Recipes from the Larder
Invaded_, part of a 1986 exhibition curated by William Woys Weaver. (It's
also in my history book.)

So before that, it was French food, from the American point of view. 1791 is
not an impossible date, since there were Huguenots in the South from the
17th Century, although I associate the dish with Fresnaye and other refugees
from the French Revolution, for which 1791 was a little early. I would think
Jefferson might have tried something like this and perhaps passed it on to
Mary Randolph. Hannah Glasse has a vermicelli pudding, but with marrow and
sweet fruits.

Of course, cheese was an option on pasta for thousands of years, and is
probably so noted in Renaissance cookbooks, although I am pretty sure it is
not in the LIbro de Koch/Libro de Guisados. I got some in Italian last
summer, and I will look in those, but this is making me hungry, so now I am
going out to dinner!


--
-Mark H. Zanger
author, The American History Cookbook, The American Ethnic Cookbook for
Students
www.ethnicook.com
www.historycook.com

"Bob (this one)" > wrote in message
...
> When was it invented in a form we'd recognize today? Where? By whom?
>
> What were its antecedents?
>
> When did it first appear in America? Where? What was it like then?
>
> Someone on a list I read provided a recipe that includes elbow macaroni
> and cheddar cheese melted into a roux-based white sauce and says "This
> recipe was passed down since 1791, as far as the family can research and
> is pure plantation southern." The writer goes on to say, "I cannot provide
> what was used by the family back in the 1700's. However, I do have great
> aunts that might shed some light on this. For the last 100 years, I know
> for certain this is the family recipe handed down."
>
> I'm profoundly skeptical that anything like macaroni and cheese was a
> staple back that far. But I've been wrong about most things, so what the
> hell...
>
> I expect a full report on my desk in the morning.
>
> Along with a sample of your best example.
>
> Pastorio
>

In article >,
Bob (this one) > wrote:

>What were its antecedents?

How about "Loyesns" in Form of Cury? 1390.

http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/FoC071small.html

It's not elbow macaroni, it's flat noodles cut up. No pasta extrusion
back then, you know.

-- greg

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:28:39 GMT, "Mark Zanger" >
wrote:

>Of course, cheese was an option on pasta for thousands of years, and is
>probably so noted in Renaissance cookbooks, although I am pretty sure it is
>not in the LIbro de Koch/Libro de Guisados.

No, the closest thing in there is Potaje de Fideos -- noodles cooked
in chicken broth or mutton broth. There are several possible
variations, including the addition of grated cheese.

> I got some in Italian last
>summer, and I will look in those, but this is making me hungry, so now I am
>going out to dinner!

I recall that there's a recipe in Diego Grando's "Libro del Arte de
Cozina" (Spanish, 1599) for macaroni, though it's almost certainly one
of the many recipes he plagiarized from the Italian, Bartolomeo
Scappi.

Okay, I went and checked Scappi. His "Opera" is online at:
http://alfama.sim.ucm.es/dioscorides...ref=X533351951
If you go to image # 149, you'll see the recipe for macaroni. This is
true macaroni, and there are instructions for using a thin piece of
wire to hollow out the pasta.

Note that the book is in Italian, and the website instructions are in
Spanish.


Robin Carroll-Mann
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