I have a question about a Chinese steamboat made of brass.

The function of these cooking devices is ingeniously simple. They are
for cooking and eating round a table. Broth is put into the bowl and
a charcoal fire lit in the chimney that runs up through the bowl.
Pieces of meat, vegetables and noodles are cooked in the broth and
lifted out with chopsticks, being replaced with fresh pieces for
cooking. The lid is kept on to stop cinders emerging from the chimney
falling into the stock.

Does anybody know of the history of this sort of instrument?

Is this specimen likely to be an antique? I have seen only aluminium
versions in Asian stores in Australia.

http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...atComplete.jpg
http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatDetail.jpg
http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatLidOff.jpg

"Richard Wright" > wrote

> Does anybody know of the history of this sort of
> instrument?

For starters:

http://www.beijingservice.com/beijin...hts/hotbot.htm

--
Bob

Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:43:42 +0300, "Opinicus" >
wrote:

>
>"Richard Wright" > wrote
>
>> Does anybody know of the history of this sort of
>> instrument?
>
>For starters:
>
>http://www.beijingservice.com/beijin...hts/hotbot.htm

Thanks Bob. That's a nice insight into the history and the regional
variiety of ingredients. It is perhaps it is reasonable to assume they
were using a steamboat - but not necessarily.

I am still hoping for something on the history of the gadget.

Richard Wright wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 07:43:42 +0300, "Opinicus" >
> wrote:
>
>>"Richard Wright" > wrote
>>
>>>Does anybody know of the history of this sort of
>>>instrument?
>>
>>For starters:
>>
>>http://www.beijingservice.com/beijin...hts/hotbot.htm
>
> Thanks Bob. That's a nice insight into the history and the regional
> variety of ingredients. It is perhaps it is reasonable to assume they
> were using a steamboat - but not necessarily.
>
> I am still hoping for something on the history of the gadget.

Look around for "huo kuo" references. <http://tinyurl.com/demsl>

I've never heard it called a "steamboat." Firepot, Mongolian firepot,
huo kuo or, the Japanese variant, shabu shabu.

I hard a fanciful story about the origins of these pots with Mongols
using their armored breastplates to cook meat that they killed in their
travels. Only problem is that they didn't use metal armor. Oh, well.
Shame to let facts get in the way of a good story.

Pastorio

"Bob (this one)"wrote ...

>
> I hard a fanciful story about the origins of these pots with Mongols using
> their armored breastplates to cook meat that they killed in their travels.
> Only problem is that they didn't use metal armor. Oh, well. Shame to let
> facts get in the way of a good story.
>
> Pastorio

Some of the museumed Mongol armor has metal strips and pieces, but most
appears to be leather (and some "quilted" padding).

Can we trace "boiled leather" armor (at least the Central Asian varieties)
to a Mongol armor/kitchen connection?.

Recipe:

Take leather helm.
Fill with water avec herbes or a good meat stock.
Add heated stones to boiling (very carefully)
Use to cook thin strips of yak, camel, expended steeds, whatever veggies can
be looted from local pantries.

When cooking either camel or yak, hair should be removed before cooking, and
sold to passing textile manufacturers' agents. Horse hide should be
preserved for next year's armor crop.

Weren't the Mongols famous for cutting thin strips of meat (likely horse
since that was the larder which accompanied them) and curing/cooking it
between their saddles and the backs of their mounts (combining salt and low
controlled heat in a single process)?


Actually, one could link the "boiling in leather bags with heated stones"
practice common in a number of Amerindian cultures with their presumptive
original migration from Asia. The one factor with I've never been
adequately satisfied with common historical explanations? The
calamitous.cataclysmic moment in time somewhere in the wilds of Central Asia
which all of a sudden stimulated all those Amerindians to be to load up and
head East, while kicking off wave after wave after wave of others heading
West crashing against each other for "x" thousands of years. Europe came
out ahead with a grand blend of culinary traditions (although kimchi beats
sauerkraut) and all the Americas got was succotash and cornbread.


Drunk on fermented mares' milk....
(and still admiring the functionality of those kettledrum cooking
cauldrons....)

I remain,

TMO

Hi Richard,

As Bob and others have already described the Mongolian Hot Pot , I'll
just add my two cents (only US, alas, not even Euro). The Mongolian Hot
Pot was briefly fashionable in the US a couple of decades ago -- when
people learned that it could be the centerpiece, literally, of social
events -- rather like the earlier fondue fad.

Large numbers of inexpensive brass Hot Pots were imported, most --
again like the fondue sets that so many people received as wedding
gifts -- were never used. I occasionally see them in garage sales,
often in their original boxes.

Gary

"Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi Richard,
>
> As Bob and others have already described the Mongolian Hot Pot , I'll
> just add my two cents (only US, alas, not even Euro). The Mongolian Hot
> Pot was briefly fashionable in the US a couple of decades ago -- when
> people learned that it could be the centerpiece, literally, of social
> events -- rather like the earlier fondue fad.
>
> Large numbers of inexpensive brass Hot Pots were imported, most --
> again like the fondue sets that so many people received as wedding
> gifts -- were never used. I occasionally see them in garage sales,
> often in their original boxes.
>
> Gary

Yes. Pier 1 did a huge business in them....and they all had
that "patina" that looked SO old. About $20, I think.

Kris
>

TOliver wrote:
> "Bob (this one)"wrote ...
>
>
>>I hard a fanciful story about the origins of these pots with Mongols using
>>their armored breastplates to cook meat that they killed in their travels.
>>Only problem is that they didn't use metal armor. Oh, well. Shame to let
>>facts get in the way of a good story.
>>
>>Pastorio
>
>
> Some of the museumed Mongol armor has metal strips and pieces, but most
> appears to be leather (and some "quilted" padding).
>
> Can we trace "boiled leather" armor (at least the Central Asian varieties)
> to a Mongol armor/kitchen connection?.
>
> Recipe:
>
> Take leather helm.
> Fill with water avec herbes or a good meat stock.
> Add heated stones to boiling (very carefully)
> Use to cook thin strips of yak, camel, expended steeds, whatever veggies can
> be looted from local pantries.
>
> When cooking either camel or yak, hair should be removed before cooking, and
> sold to passing textile manufacturers' agents. Horse hide should be
> preserved for next year's armor crop.
>
> Weren't the Mongols famous for cutting thin strips of meat (likely horse
> since that was the larder which accompanied them) and curing/cooking it
> between their saddles and the backs of their mounts (combining salt and low
> controlled heat in a single process)?
>
>
> Actually, one could link the "boiling in leather bags with heated stones"
> practice common in a number of Amerindian cultures with their presumptive
> original migration from Asia. The one factor with I've never been
> adequately satisfied with common historical explanations? The
> calamitous.cataclysmic moment in time somewhere in the wilds of Central Asia
> which all of a sudden stimulated all those Amerindians to be to load up and
> head East, while kicking off wave after wave after wave of others heading
> West crashing against each other for "x" thousands of years. Europe came
> out ahead with a grand blend of culinary traditions (although kimchi beats
> sauerkraut) and all the Americas got was succotash and cornbread.

Chocolate. Capsicum peppers. Llama steaks.

Pastorio

> Drunk on fermented mares' milk....
> (and still admiring the functionality of those kettledrum cooking
> cauldrons....)
>
> I remain,
>
> TMO
>
>

....and tomatoes, and corn ("we call it maize"), and potatoes, and many
new bean species...

> I have a question about a Chinese steamboat made of brass.
> http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...atComplete.jpg
> http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatDetail.jpg
> http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatLidOff.jpg

Wouldn't you get copper poisoning from cooking in that?

Most copper or copper-alloy vessels used for cooking are tinned.

============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557

On 1 Aug 2005 11:11:46 -0700, "Gary" > wrote:

>Hi Richard,
>
>As Bob and others have already described the Mongolian Hot Pot , I'll
>just add my two cents (only US, alas, not even Euro). The Mongolian Hot
>Pot was briefly fashionable in the US a couple of decades ago -- when
>people learned that it could be the centerpiece, literally, of social
>events -- rather like the earlier fondue fad.
>
>Large numbers of inexpensive brass Hot Pots were imported, most --
>again like the fondue sets that so many people received as wedding
>gifts -- were never used. I occasionally see them in garage sales,
>often in their original boxes.
>
>Gary

.. . . the used brass ones sold in garage sales by children whose
parents died young of copper poisoning. The used aluminium ones by
children who can't remember where they got them from.

"Richard Wright" > wrote in message
...
>
> . . . the used brass ones sold in garage sales by children whose
> parents died young of copper poisoning. The used aluminium ones by
> children who can't remember where they got them from.

Best post of August. So far.

Kris

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:

>>I have a question about a Chinese steamboat made of brass.

>>http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...atComplete.jpg
>>http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatDetail.jpg
>>http://box.net/public/richwrig/dfile...boatLidOff.jpg
>
> Wouldn't you get copper poisoning from cooking in that?
>
> Most copper or copper-alloy vessels used for cooking are tinned.

The copper and brass ones I had in my restaurants were all tinned, but
I've seen untinned ones. The poisons are created by cooking acid foods
in the bare brass or copper. Verdigris or "green-gray" in French.

As I understand it, the cooking had to include reasonably strong acids,
cooked for a long time to be serious issue. Both antique and modern
jelly pans are often made of unlined copper or, more rarely, brass.
<http://www.journalofantiques.com/hearthaug.htm>

Pastorio

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 02:55:52 -0400, "Bob (this one)" >
wrote:

<snipped>
>
>Look around for "huo kuo" references. <http://tinyurl.com/demsl>
>
>I've never heard it called a "steamboat." Firepot, Mongolian firepot,
>huo kuo or, the Japanese variant, shabu shabu.
>
>I hard a fanciful story about the origins of these pots with Mongols
>using their armored breastplates to cook meat that they killed in their
>travels. Only problem is that they didn't use metal armor. Oh, well.
>Shame to let facts get in the way of a good story.
>
>Pastorio

I got the name "steamboat" from Graham Yen's "The Chinese Cooking
School Cookbook" (1979) . He also says it is called "Mongolian hot
pot".

"Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> ...and tomatoes, and corn ("we call it maize"), and potatoes, and many
> new bean species...
>

Irony.....

a ploy unmentionable among devotees of this ng.

Living on the frontier of HispanAmerica, the indigenous products of the
hemisphere are appear regularly at table (although I really have to wait
until I'm in Nuevo Laredo have the black corn fungus soup with the
unpronouncable Nahuatl name).

.....and we really don't see the tasty guisada de puppy dog and green chiles
off the little villages on the tropical side of Mt. Orizaba in
local restaurants. But down to the HEB and Fiesta, I can come up with at
least 15 varieties of dried beans native to these continents (and all sorts
of quaint seasonings such as epazote and dried baby shrtimp).


TMO