[cross posted with intent ;
please do not reply to all newsgroups unless it is relevant for them all ;
and especially leave off rec.food.sourdough as this is getting off topic for them ]

>>No natural animal eats refined carbohydrates anyway.
>
> Well, us, you are forgetting us! And monkeys, dogs, some cats,
> who follow our foibles. Horses -- I have seen horses eat sugar lumps.

[I did not expect to write such a long reply, but what the hell.]

There are no refined carbohydrates in the wild (by defnintion!). But there are a
few simple sugars out there (dates and honey come to mind).

All animals, including us humans, evolved on a diet that did not include any
refined food. Our bodies adapted ourselves to the environment, along with
the other animals in each of their respective niches. Our competitors were
naturally selected to die and we naturally remained as the best fit to survive
in the environment.

For about 3 million years, we ate meat, leaves, fruit, berries, nuts... Much of the
fruit was small and bitter, and only came at certain times of the year (think of
crabapples and hawthornes). The vegetables were bitter and often nearly
poisonous. All of the food was trying to not get eaten, and used thorns or
poisons or being out of reach. Grass seeds were eaten occasionally, but aparently
quite rarely, because they were more successful at being poisonous to us (phytates,
lectins, etc).

About 10,000 years ago (500 generations), we started gardening, farming, and
raising animals. Our diet and lifestyle changed trememdously at that time. We
stopped running around a lot chasing after meat (less exercise), and we started
eating cereals including bread, eating dairy, and drinking alcohol.

Our genetics have not entirely kept pace. Our genetics were bred, tuned, and
adapted for a different environment -- one that kept us running, and kept us eating
wild food. The speciazation time is about 2500 generations, or 50,000 years for
humans. That means that given this much time (seperating us into two areas) we
could morph into two different species. Using this as a gauge, it seems likely that
our bodies are not yet adapted to accept modern foods as well as they accept
paleolithic foods.

However, 500 generations IS enough to make at least a few perhaps significant
changes. Certainly many of the early farmers got sick from the poisonous cereals
and died off. But we are not their decendants. Instead, we descended from the
hardy humans that could handle it. Additionally, clearly the human race has enjoyed
a rapid success in the last 10,000 years. If you don't think we are ballooning in
population, you are blind, and that is the *only* measure of success from an
evolutionary standpoint. This success is highly probably the direct result of farming,
and is ample evidence that eating grains is more beneficial (to the race) than it is
detrimental.

We have beaten the system!

Even so, some people are allergic to wheat. Something like 70% of humans are
still lactose intolerant (we've been eating dairy for up to 10,000 years, but many
races didn't start until much more recently).

Also, foods that are even newer than 10,000 years have increased risk. Refined
sugars. Nitrates and nitrosomes. Preservatives. Artificial flavors, sweeteners,
etc. Most of these only came into vogue use in the last 100 years. The chances
that you are adapted to these foods (making them healthy for you) is less than one
tenth of a percent, and probably much less than that.

This "evolutionary" view on diet is a wholely parallel and complimentary method of
determining the healthfulness of foods, compared to standard medical studies.
Both methods used in conjunction can yield the best results. Relying on medical
studies alone pre-supposes the completeness of such studies -- the totality of
medical studies to date is vastly incomplete. On the other hand, relying on only the
"safe" ancient foods discounts the benefits that we have created (more carbs
for everyone being the greatest of them that I can think of), and perhaps changes
in humans in the last 10,000 years.

It is comforting to know that most of the reliable medical studies confirm the paleo
hypothesis about healthfulness of foods. We know that foods with high GIs lead
to metabolic syndrome and type II diabetes. We know that eating lots of nitrates
leads to cancer. We know that our evolutionary "brakes" don't work anymore with
the easy access we have to food, and that most humans are overweight because of
it, with it's consequent problems like heart disease.

There is one area where paleo diet research and modern medicine disagree. That is on
meat consumption. Paleo folk tell you that meat is king, and to dig in. Modern
medicine says overeating meat causes heart disease, cancer, and kidney problems,
and that meat ages you faster (causes more oxidative stress). I'm not going to tell you
who to believe. I don't know the answer on this one, but I think it's safe and wise to
limit meat intake, but not to eliminate it, and to focus more on fish.

-Mike

P.S.: I'm doing a little personal research to determine how and more importantly WHEN
human food has changed. For instance, carrots used to be white and purple, and only
became orange thanks to the cross breeding of the House of Orange (16th century,
Holland). I may host a website with this data soon. Also, beet roots were never eaten
by humans until the sugar beet was introduced (cross bred from fodder beets) with
over double the sugar content of the original natural beet. If you have a lead on other
research in this area, or a significant repository of food history, please let me know, as
I am just starting in on this. My real e mailaddres is mike at mike dilger dot com.
Thanks.

Mike Dilger muttered....


>
> P.S.: I'm doing a little personal research to determine how and more
> importantly WHEN human food has changed. For instance, carrots used
> to be white and purple, and only became orange thanks to the cross
> breeding of the House of Orange (16th century, Holland). I may host a
> website with this data soon. Also, beet roots were never eaten by
> humans until the sugar beet was introduced (cross bred from fodder
> beets) with over double the sugar content of the original natural
> beet. If you have a lead on other research in this area, or a
> significant repository of food history, please let me know, as I am
> just starting in on this. My real e mailaddres is mike at mike dilger
> dot com. Thanks.
>
>
I suspect you've fallen victim to several popular urban legends.....

A bit more education into a variety of root vegetables might serve you
well. Incidentally, there's currently a available (as produce and seeds)
maroon banana, the color (along with white) of Texas A&M University where
it was developed.

Next you'll be telling us about "Ring around the rosie" and the plague.


TMO

Olivers muttered....

> Mike Dilger muttered....
>
>
>>
>> P.S.: I'm doing a little personal research to determine how and more
>> importantly WHEN human food has changed. For instance, carrots used
>> to be white and purple, and only became orange thanks to the cross
>> breeding of the House of Orange (16th century, Holland). I may host
>> a website with this data soon. Also, beet roots were never eaten by
>> humans until the sugar beet was introduced (cross bred from fodder
>> beets) with over double the sugar content of the original natural
>> beet. If you have a lead on other research in this area, or a
>> significant repository of food history, please let me know, as I am
>> just starting in on this. My real e mailaddres is mike at mike dilger
>> dot com. Thanks.
>>
>>
> I suspect you've fallen victim to several popular urban legends.....
>
> A bit more education into a variety of root vegetables might serve you
> well. Incidentally, there's currently a available (as produce and
> seeds) maroon banana, the color (along with white) of Texas A&M
> University where it was developed.

It's really a maroon carrot, but maroon banana (of which there are some),
sounded better. Who made rutabagas orange anyway?
>
> Next you'll be telling us about "Ring around the rosie" and the
> plague.
>
....or wearing little bags of herbs and silver crosses around our necks to
repell vapires, werewolves and other strange critters.