Cookie Cutter wrote:

> Could you give me where to find this information? I am very interested
> in this subject.
>
> Cookie
>
> ASmith1946 wrote:
>
>>> The tomato started moving into northern cookery in the later part of
>>> the 19th century, probably shipped in from warmer areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a myth. The tomato was grown in New England before 1800, and was
>> identified as the "queen" of vegetables by the 1830s.
>>
>> Andy Smith

Sorry about typo -- Could you tell me where to find this info. I know
tomatoes were grown in flower gardens before 1800 and surely a few brave
souls ate them but I did not think they were a common item on the table.
In my research they only begin being actively bought from seed
catalogs around 1830 and it was not until after the Civil War that they
became what you might call universal on American tables.

I am very interested in any reference source you can point me to that
shows information to the contrary. I am currently trying to write an
article on this subject.

Cookie

> In my research they only begin being actively bought from seed
>catalogs around 1830 and it was not until after the Civil War that they
>became what you might call universal on American tables.

The earliest seed "catalogue" with tomatoes listed (that I've located is
Lithen, John. "Catalogue of Garden Seeds... Philadelphia. c1800. In this
broadside, "Love Apples" are listed under "Seeds and Plants of Herbs," not
under flowers.

The notion that tomatoes were not commonly-consumed until after the Civil War
is pure culinary fakelore promoted by people (such as James Beard) who didn't
bother to look at primary sources, such as pre-Civil War cookbooks, gardening
books, newspapers, etc. To date I've located over 15,000 references to
tomatoes published or written in the US prior to the Civil War. In fact, it is
likely that tomatoes were grown and consumed in what is today the US prior to
the arrival of the English colonists at Jamestown in 1607 (specifically in St.
Augustine, Florida, and later in Santa Fe, New Mexico), although I have not
located primary sources that support this contention. However, tomatoes were
clearly grown and consumed in the American Southern colonies by the mid-18
century, as I have documented.

>
>I am very interested in any reference source you can point me to that
>shows information to the contrary. I am currently trying to write an
>article on this subject.
>
>Cookie
>

If you need any pithy quotes, just let me know. I'm good at pith...

Andy Smith

ASmith1946 wrote:

>> In my research they only begin being actively bought from seed
>>catalogs around 1830 and it was not until after the Civil War that they
>>became what you might call universal on American tables.
>
>
> The earliest seed "catalogue" with tomatoes listed (that I've located is
> Lithen, John. "Catalogue of Garden Seeds... Philadelphia. c1800. In this
> broadside, "Love Apples" are listed under "Seeds and Plants of Herbs," not
> under flowers.
>
> The notion that tomatoes were not commonly-consumed until after the Civil War
> is pure culinary fakelore promoted by people (such as James Beard) who didn't
> bother to look at primary sources, such as pre-Civil War cookbooks, gardening
> books, newspapers, etc. To date I've located over 15,000 references to
> tomatoes published or written in the US prior to the Civil War. In fact, it is
> likely that tomatoes were grown and consumed in what is today the US prior to
> the arrival of the English colonists at Jamestown in 1607 (specifically in St.
> Augustine, Florida, and later in Santa Fe, New Mexico), although I have not
> located primary sources that support this contention. However, tomatoes were
> clearly grown and consumed in the American Southern colonies by the mid-18
> century, as I have documented.
>
>

Actually, I said in my post that I belive they were eaten in the South
very early. They appear in recipes in A Colonial Plantation
Cookbook-The Receipt Book of Harriott Pinckney Horry, 1770, The Virginia
Housewife, The Carolina Housewife, The Kentucky Housewife,etc., all
published before 1850. I haven't found any recipes or other indications
that there was any early use of tomatoes in the North and there is not
much variety to their use in traditional New England cooking, i.e. they
are added as a vegetable to soups and stews, they are baked, and they
are eaten raw. There is also tomato sauce made by mashing them and
thickening with crackers. In the South by contrast, there is a greater
depth to tomato usage such as tomato gravy, tomato dumplings, tomato
pie, tomato wine, sun dried tomatoes, and so on that lead me to believe
that there is a long history to their use.

I believe that people like James Beard reflect the northern history of
the tomato. My research had led me to conclude that it had limited use
in the North until after the Civil War but that it was extensively used
in the South, probably from the earliest times. I look forward to
getting and reading the books you recommended if they indicate differently.

>
>
> If you need any pithy quotes, just let me know. I'm good at pith...
>
> Andy Smith
>
>

Thank you Andy. I might need to call on you.

Cookie