Don't forget potatoes!

Cookie



Frogleg wrote:

> On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:20:02 -0500, Dennis Montey
> > wrote:
>
The most dramatic influx of new food
> items must surely have been the "discovery" of the Americas. Not only
> tomatoes, corn, and capsicums, but also pineapple, papaya, vanilla
> and chocolate originated in the New World.

In article >,
Cookie Cutter > wrote:

> Don't forget potatoes!
>
> Cookie
>
>
>
> Frogleg wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 09 May 2004 09:20:02 -0500, Dennis Montey
> > > wrote:
> >
> The most dramatic influx of new food
> > items must surely have been the "discovery" of the Americas. Not only
> > tomatoes, corn, and capsicums, but also pineapple, papaya, vanilla
> > and chocolate originated in the New World.

And all the standard squash/pumpkin varieties.

--
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www.daviddfriedman.com

>> The Chinese have known about the tomato for centuries
>> (they call it the "foreign eggplant") and it never really became important.
>
>are you sure about the rendering? To my knowledge, xirongshi means:
>"western red persimmon"

There are two Chinese words for "tomato." One is transliterated "xirongshi"
as you note. It tends to be used by northerners. The second and more common
word is transliterated as "fan qui," whose direct translation is "foreign
eggplant," although it is also sometimes translated as "western eggplant." It
tends to be used by southerners.

>
>> However, for the past few years, the PRC has been the largest producer of
>> tomatoes in the world (surpassing the US which has been the largest
>producer
>> for years). Evidently, tomatoes are mainly eaten fresh like an apple-- just
>> bite into them and add a little salt. Actually, this is a good way to eat
>> tomatoes, provided...
>>
>In the PRC they are also industrially processed and exported, often in
>bulk, and canned in third part countries
>
>--

I'd greatly appreciate the source for the above information. I looked for
Chinese export information through FAO, and did not locate much.

Andy Smith

>
>

ASmith1946 > wrote:

> There are two Chinese words for "tomato." One is transliterated "xirongshi"
> as you note. It tends to be used by northerners.

Here I can only disagree: it's the most common term used in Mandarin

> The second and more common
> word is transliterated as "fan qui," whose direct translation is "foreign
> eggplant,"

fan qie, for the second, and I doubt it is the most common.
Now it is correct that qiezi means eggplant, but the translation you
suggest for fan (foreign?) sounds pretty strange to my ears.
My Chinese is quite rusty, but I would appreciate if you could explain
haw you got there

> although it is also sometimes translated as "western eggplant." It
> tends to be used by southerners.

western eggplant would become xiqie: never heard it, but it could be a
local usage
> >
> I'd greatly appreciate the source for the above information. I looked for
> Chinese export information through FAO, and did not locate much.
>
From personal experience (I spent several years working in China): be
sure a large European company tried to import bulk processed tomatoes
from there since 1986; if what you need is written information that you
can quote, I would not look into FAO records. Chinese Provincial
Authorities publish regularly import/export statistics: they are not
particularly prized for their accuracy, but still, better than nothing.
I am also aware of Italian newspapers (this must be a sub-italian
thread!) that reacted outreaged, a short while ago, learning that their
tomatoes could have came from the Far East. But that has happened,
surely, long before. If you need more details I would be glad to help
you privately: the address is valid

--
lilian

>
>Here I can only disagree: it's the most common term used in Mandarin
>
>> The second and more common
>> word is transliterated as "fan qui," whose direct translation is "foreign
>> eggplant,"
>
>fan qie, for the second, and I doubt it is the most common.
>Now it is correct that qiezi means eggplant, but the translation you
>suggest for fan (foreign?) sounds pretty strange to my ears.
>My Chinese is quite rusty, but I would appreciate if you could explain
>haw you got there


The organization I run (www.globaled.org) operates programs in the PRC and we
have a staff member who is Chinese. Then, we work closely with the Chinese
community in New York, and they say the same thing. And then the title of the
Mandarin language version of my previously mentioend tomato book is "fan qui."
That's it.

>
>> although it is also sometimes translated as "western eggplant." It
>> tends to be used by southerners.
>
>western eggplant would become xiqie: never heard it, but it could be a
>local usage
>> >
>> I'd greatly appreciate the source for the above information. I looked for
>> Chinese export information through FAO, and did not locate much.
>>
>From personal experience (I spent several years working in China): be
>sure a large European company tried to import bulk processed tomatoes
>from there since 1986; if what you need is written information that you
>can quote, I would not look into FAO records. Chinese Provincial
>Authorities publish regularly import/export statistics: they are not
>particularly prized for their accuracy, but still, better than nothing.
>I am also aware of Italian newspapers (this must be a sub-italian
>thread!) that reacted outreaged, a short while ago, learning that their
>tomatoes could have came from the Far East. But that has happened,
>surely, long before. If you need more details I would be glad to help
>you privately: the address is valid

The huge growth of the tomato industry in the PRC has occurred in the past five
years (according to FAO statistics). It is extremely unlikely that tomatoes
grown in the PRC would be shipped to another country for processing. In the US,
the time from picking to processing is measured in minutes and hours. Tomatoes
are picked, transported to a factory, processed, and stored, bottled or canned,
and boxed (and often shipped) usually within 2-12 hours of picking.

It is, of course, possible to pick green tomatoes in China and ship them almost
anywhere before processing. But the taste is less than satisfactory. They would
not meet US standards and I'd doubt that they'd meet EU standards either.

All the evidence I've been able to locate suggests that the Chinese
(particularly in the South) now eat plenty of tomatoes. They are consumed raw
with salt added, which seems to me to be so... un-Chinese.

Andy Smith

Following this thread, one of the things that astonishes me
is that the Chinese should have observed a relationship
between an eggplant and a tomato.

--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

>
>Following this thread, one of the things that astonishes me
>is that the Chinese should have observed a relationship
>between an eggplant and a tomato.
>

Hi Bob:

Actually, so did everyone else. The two plants are remotely related
botanically. Most early European herbals listed tomatoes as a variety of
eggplants. The first "tomato" recipe (1541) says that they are "eaten in the
same manner as the eggplant," which were fried in oil with salt and pepper,
like mushrooms. This confusion/connection between the eggplant and the tomato
continued into the 20th century.

Andy Smith

I believe some old varieties of egglplant were generally the size and
shape of an egg and were white to pinkish in color, hence the name. I
have also seen antique varieties of tomatoes that were purplish in color.

So, it is possible that the varieties of tomatoes and eggplants back
then in China resembled each other more closely than the 2 pound purple
kidney-shaped eggplant and bright red (though hard) tomato that we have
in the market today.

Cookie


Opinicus wrote:

> Following this thread, one of the things that astonishes me
> is that the Chinese should have observed a relationship
> between an eggplant and a tomato.
>

Opinicus wrote:
>
> Following this thread, one of the things that astonishes me
> is that the Chinese should have observed a relationship
> between an eggplant and a tomato.
>
> --
> Bob


Why? They need only have seen what either plant looks like to see that
are related.

ASmith1946 > wrote:

> The organization I run (www.globaled.org) operates programs in the PRC and we
> have a staff member who is Chinese. Then, we work closely with the Chinese
> community in New York, and they say the same thing. And then the title of the
> Mandarin language version of my previously mentioend tomato book is "fan qui."
> That's it.
>
That's it: but having asked a couple of sinologist (Chinese speakers are
not famous for their controll of pinyin) and a Chinese cook, I mantain
you have a typo on that cover. If you "qui" [sic] has the grass on the
top, the force on the left and the mouth on the right even the Oxford
dictionary gives me plenty on ground and states that I am right. If the
word is, on the other hand, written in a different way, I am quite
curious to know which one it is. Could you please post a link to the
Chinese character?

--
lilian

Lillian:

There is a typo, not on the cover, but in my post. It should have been "Fan
Qie," not "Fan Qui."

If you really must have the Chinese characters, go into OCLC, search under my
name and the Engliah title of the book: "The Tomato in America." Enjoy!

OCLC's transliteration of the title page is below.

Andy Smith

Fan qie =
The tomato in America /
Andrew F Smith; Qifen Xu

2000 Chu ban.
Chinese Book 241 p. ; ill. ; 20 cm.
Taibei Shi : Lan jing chu pan you xian gong si, ; ISBN: 9579748047 (pbk.) :

>That's it: but having asked a couple of sinologist (Chinese speakers are
>not famous for their controll of pinyin) and a Chinese cook, I mantain
>you have a typo on that cover. If you "qui" [sic] has the grass on the
>top, the force on the left and the mouth on the right even the Oxford
>dictionary gives me plenty on ground and states that I am right. If the
>word is, on the other hand, written in a different way, I am quite
>curious to know which one it is. Could you please post a link to the
>Chinese character?
>
>--
>lilian
>
>
>
>