Olivers wrote:

> Of course, whatever its spelling or transliteration, and those clerics did
> butcher Nuahatl to Spanish pretty badly, being pretty confused about "X"
> back then, chocolate still appears in one of what must have been its
> earliest venues, combined with chiles and other incgredients in several
> versions of mole, most commonly served with turkey or chicken, and likely
> pretty close to what must have been served to upper crust Azrecs (when a
> bit of obsidian-sliced Tarascan captive/hostage/sacrifical victim wasn't on
> the Bill of Fare.
>
> Hmmmm.... Mayan Maiden Mole
>
> Given no metal with which to convert chocolate into a smooth paste, the
> volcanic grit from a lot of metate mashing may have made Moctezuma's
> morning chocolate a little gritty. As for sweetener, did you and Jennings
> try it in atole, the corn gruel/beverage which hasa vague sweetness, not
> quite horchata, but....

We gave up combining it with anything after we tried the Kahlua. I think.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...


>
> I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a sweetener.
>

Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid maidens
(tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table) out at
Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of honeysuckle along
the road.

Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.

I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd which
would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each corncob's
life cycle.

The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of mexico
provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining (beyond
tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.

TMO

Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...


>
> I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a sweetener.
>

Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid maidens
(tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table) out at
Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of honeysuckle along
the road.

Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.

I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd which
would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each corncob's
life cycle.

The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of mexico
provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining (beyond
tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.

TMO

Olivers wrote:

> Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...
>
>>I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a sweetener.
>>
> Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid maidens
> (tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table) out at
> Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of honeysuckle along
> the road.

<LOL> If that had been the case, rest assured Gary would have made
much of it.

> Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.

Given that Gary's been dead for a few years, its a tough one. But he
certainly subscribed to that sort of idea, especially after the
chocolate with Kahlua.

We were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.
Before we started, I asked how closely we were to stick to the actual
facts of his life. Gary said, "What do facts have to do with
entertainment?" We only got a little of it done before he couldn't
work any more. I heard that his estate was looking for someone to
finish it.

If you haven't read them, Aztec and Aztec Blood (slightly less) are
good reads. Lots of historically accurate material along with invented
situations, of course. They are novels, after all. I know of one other
writer who used Gary's stuff as primary source material for his own
Aztec series.

Pastorio

> I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
> dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd which
> would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each corncob's
> life cycle.
>
> The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of mexico
> provide some concept of the availabilities for Aztec dining (beyond
> tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.
>
> TMO

>e were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you or me
Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead ...


Love that song! (Did Woody Guthrie popularize it?)

Andy Smith

>e were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you or me
Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead ...


Love that song! (Did Woody Guthrie popularize it?)

Andy Smith

>e were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you or me
Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead ...


Love that song! (Did Woody Guthrie popularize it?)

Andy Smith

ASmith1946 wrote:

>>e were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.
>
>
> I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
> Alive as you or me
> Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead ...
>
> Love that song! (Did Woody Guthrie popularize it?)

I think it's the only song he didn't sing. <g>

Alfred Hayes wrote it (around 1925 if memory serves) but Paul Robeson,
Pete Seeger, Joan Baez and lots of others have sung it...

Pastorio

ASmith1946 wrote:

>>e were working on an opera (!) about Joe Hill, the union organizer.
>
>
> I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
> Alive as you or me
> Says I, "But Joe, you're ten years dead ...
>
> Love that song! (Did Woody Guthrie popularize it?)

I think it's the only song he didn't sing. <g>

Alfred Hayes wrote it (around 1925 if memory serves) but Paul Robeson,
Pete Seeger, Joan Baez and lots of others have sung it...

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:

> If you haven't read them, Aztec and Aztec Blood (slightly less) are good
> reads.

Actually, I meant to say Aztec Autumn rather than Blood. When gary was
getting ready to write what he was calling "Aztec Twilight," he wrote
me a letter after reading one of my columns. I was paralyzed because
he was one of my favorite writers and it took me a week before I got
up the nerve to reply. We arranged to meet for dinner, him, me and my
(about to be ex-) wife named Autumn. In an earlier novel of his, he
had a character named Autumn and said he'd never met anyone with that
name.

Anyway, we had dinner a couple more times before she and I finally
came apart. When I saw the beginning of the manuscript, I saw the name
change. He said it was because he enjoyed our dinners before she moved
away and because it fit the subject.

He'd been through a bout of bad health and was still wobbly. So I
helped him through that time and we ate and drank too much and finally
the book was done. He stuck my name in the acknowledgments of Aztec
Autumn and I think it was a nice gesture. He died shortly thereafter

Aztec Blood was written by someone else, not really in Gary's style
although it's been presented as finishing his work. It's not a bad
book, just doesn't have the intensity that Gary's writing does. Still,
with a bit of forgiveness, it's a good story.

My other fave is his retelling of the Marco Polo story called "The
Journeyer." He actually traveled the Silk Road to research it. Both
out and back through some wild country and hostile cultures. Amazing
guy. Looked like some mild-mannered reporter. Lived large.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:

> If you haven't read them, Aztec and Aztec Blood (slightly less) are good
> reads.

Actually, I meant to say Aztec Autumn rather than Blood. When gary was
getting ready to write what he was calling "Aztec Twilight," he wrote
me a letter after reading one of my columns. I was paralyzed because
he was one of my favorite writers and it took me a week before I got
up the nerve to reply. We arranged to meet for dinner, him, me and my
(about to be ex-) wife named Autumn. In an earlier novel of his, he
had a character named Autumn and said he'd never met anyone with that
name.

Anyway, we had dinner a couple more times before she and I finally
came apart. When I saw the beginning of the manuscript, I saw the name
change. He said it was because he enjoyed our dinners before she moved
away and because it fit the subject.

He'd been through a bout of bad health and was still wobbly. So I
helped him through that time and we ate and drank too much and finally
the book was done. He stuck my name in the acknowledgments of Aztec
Autumn and I think it was a nice gesture. He died shortly thereafter

Aztec Blood was written by someone else, not really in Gary's style
although it's been presented as finishing his work. It's not a bad
book, just doesn't have the intensity that Gary's writing does. Still,
with a bit of forgiveness, it's a good story.

My other fave is his retelling of the Marco Polo story called "The
Journeyer." He actually traveled the Silk Road to research it. Both
out and back through some wild country and hostile cultures. Amazing
guy. Looked like some mild-mannered reporter. Lived large.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...


>
> My other fave is his retelling of the Marco Polo story called "The
> Journeyer." He actually traveled the Silk Road to research it. Both
> out and back through some wild country and hostile cultures. Amazing
> guy. Looked like some mild-mannered reporter. Lived large.
>

I suspect that more than one author of grand and colorful historical
fiction, an avocation which requires a spectacular imagination as well as
(at least among the "I'm-not-one-of-the-not-quite-but-mostly-dry-as-dust-
research-assistant-aided-last-named-Michener set") an imperial capacity to
record and remember bits and pieces from pages read, even those from mis-
spent youth, are likely to have "lived large" in some aspects of
life...(and the dinner table or saloon bar offer especially easy access to
some large living). I met Jennings once at a book-signing and was
impressed by a certain largeness of life aura about him. I've enjoyed most
of his novels, great for business trips to less than exciting
destinations and airport waits - incidentally, a "less than exciting
destination" is one in which you carry the book you've been reading along
to dinner with you, expecting to see or experience little worth recording
in the restaurant.

TMO

Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...


>
> My other fave is his retelling of the Marco Polo story called "The
> Journeyer." He actually traveled the Silk Road to research it. Both
> out and back through some wild country and hostile cultures. Amazing
> guy. Looked like some mild-mannered reporter. Lived large.
>

I suspect that more than one author of grand and colorful historical
fiction, an avocation which requires a spectacular imagination as well as
(at least among the "I'm-not-one-of-the-not-quite-but-mostly-dry-as-dust-
research-assistant-aided-last-named-Michener set") an imperial capacity to
record and remember bits and pieces from pages read, even those from mis-
spent youth, are likely to have "lived large" in some aspects of
life...(and the dinner table or saloon bar offer especially easy access to
some large living). I met Jennings once at a book-signing and was
impressed by a certain largeness of life aura about him. I've enjoyed most
of his novels, great for business trips to less than exciting
destinations and airport waits - incidentally, a "less than exciting
destination" is one in which you carry the book you've been reading along
to dinner with you, expecting to see or experience little worth recording
in the restaurant.

TMO

Olivers wrote:
>
> Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...
>
>
> >
> > I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a sweetener.
> >
>
> Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid maidens
> (tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table) out at
> Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of honeysuckle along
> the road.
>
> Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.
>
> I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
> dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd which
> would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each corncob's
> life cycle.

From 'Historic Cookery'

Champurrado:

To 2 cups of (prepared) atole or polvillo add two squares spiced
chocolate or Mexican chocolate dissolved in 1/4 cup boiling water.
Sweeten to taste.

Polvillo is toasted flour gruel:

Toast wheat flour in the oven until brown.

6 tbs browned flour
4 tsp cold water
2 C boiling water
White or brown sugar to taste

Dissolve flour in cold water, pour into boiling water and cook
thoroughly


>
> The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of mexico
> provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining (beyond
> tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.
>
> TMO

Dunno about the horchata. Mexican horchata is made with white rice,
which would have come with the Spanish.

Olivers wrote:
>
> Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...
>
>
> >
> > I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a sweetener.
> >
>
> Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid maidens
> (tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table) out at
> Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of honeysuckle along
> the road.
>
> Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.
>
> I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
> dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd which
> would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each corncob's
> life cycle.

From 'Historic Cookery'

Champurrado:

To 2 cups of (prepared) atole or polvillo add two squares spiced
chocolate or Mexican chocolate dissolved in 1/4 cup boiling water.
Sweeten to taste.

Polvillo is toasted flour gruel:

Toast wheat flour in the oven until brown.

6 tbs browned flour
4 tsp cold water
2 C boiling water
White or brown sugar to taste

Dissolve flour in cold water, pour into boiling water and cook
thoroughly


>
> The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of mexico
> provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining (beyond
> tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.
>
> TMO

Dunno about the horchata. Mexican horchata is made with white rice,
which would have come with the Spanish.

Arri London extrapolated from data available...

>
>
> Olivers wrote:
>>
>> Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a
>> > sweetener.
>> >
>>
>> Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid
>> maidens (tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table)
>> out at Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of
>> honeysuckle along the road.
>>
>> Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.
>>
>> I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
>> dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd
>> which would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each
>> corncob's life cycle.
>
> From 'Historic Cookery'
>
> Champurrado:
>
> To 2 cups of (prepared) atole or polvillo add two squares spiced
> chocolate or Mexican chocolate dissolved in 1/4 cup boiling water.
> Sweeten to taste.
>
> Polvillo is toasted flour gruel:
>
> Toast wheat flour in the oven until brown.
>
> 6 tbs browned flour
> 4 tsp cold water
> 2 C boiling water
> White or brown sugar to taste
>
> Dissolve flour in cold water, pour into boiling water and cook
> thoroughly
>
>
>>
>> The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of
>> mexico provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining
>> (beyond tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.
>>
>> TMO
>
> Dunno about the horchata. Mexican horchata is made with white rice,
> which would have come with the Spanish.
>

I've always thought of Horchata is one of those affectations of affluence,
what folks raised on atole turned to when they had a couple of persos to
rub together...

Like my grandmother, raised an orphan on a hardscrabble West Texas ranch
near "old" (not the new one) Buffalo Gap in the 1880s/90s, who when I
walked over from junior high to have lunch with her, persisted in serving
store bought "light bread", in her mind a symbol of her social mobility and
culinary dynamics. That I would have begged on bended knee for her hot
water cornbread or scratch biscuits never occurred to her. They
represented the deprivation of the bad old days. Her idea of "feast" was
as many fresh vegetables, cooked and raw, as could be placed on the table
at once. That she could have only lived to enjoy Chilean fruit. In her
later years, she was partial to cured pork, but rarely a taste of
beef....twice a day, every day, in youth and that the somewhat rangy
specimens ("dry cows" or the injured) likely to fall to the selection of
what to slaughter for the house and crew

TMO

Arri London extrapolated from data available...

>
>
> Olivers wrote:
>>
>> Bob (this one) extrapolated from data available...
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I'll give you honey, but vanilla is a stretch for being a
>> > sweetener.
>> >
>>
>> Tell Jennings that Ole Moctezuma probably had about 10,000 nekkid
>> maidens (tribal tribute, bound for the altar and the dinner table)
>> out at Xochimilco straining the sweet nectar out of the banks of
>> honeysuckle along the road.
>>
>> Shoot, if it's fiction, make it colorful.
>>
>> I do want to try chocolate in atole which was sort a national
>> dish/soup/porridge of the region, a corn kernel starchy pulp belnd
>> which would have been at least semisweet for a short period in each
>> corncob's life cycle.
>
> From 'Historic Cookery'
>
> Champurrado:
>
> To 2 cups of (prepared) atole or polvillo add two squares spiced
> chocolate or Mexican chocolate dissolved in 1/4 cup boiling water.
> Sweeten to taste.
>
> Polvillo is toasted flour gruel:
>
> Toast wheat flour in the oven until brown.
>
> 6 tbs browned flour
> 4 tsp cold water
> 2 C boiling water
> White or brown sugar to taste
>
> Dissolve flour in cold water, pour into boiling water and cook
> thoroughly
>
>
>>
>> The modern horchata and the popular "liquados", fruit shakes, of
>> mexico provide some concept ofg the availabilities for Aztec dining
>> (beyond tribute tribesfolk, solving the local protein deficiency.
>>
>> TMO
>
> Dunno about the horchata. Mexican horchata is made with white rice,
> which would have come with the Spanish.
>

I've always thought of Horchata is one of those affectations of affluence,
what folks raised on atole turned to when they had a couple of persos to
rub together...

Like my grandmother, raised an orphan on a hardscrabble West Texas ranch
near "old" (not the new one) Buffalo Gap in the 1880s/90s, who when I
walked over from junior high to have lunch with her, persisted in serving
store bought "light bread", in her mind a symbol of her social mobility and
culinary dynamics. That I would have begged on bended knee for her hot
water cornbread or scratch biscuits never occurred to her. They
represented the deprivation of the bad old days. Her idea of "feast" was
as many fresh vegetables, cooked and raw, as could be placed on the table
at once. That she could have only lived to enjoy Chilean fruit. In her
later years, she was partial to cured pork, but rarely a taste of
beef....twice a day, every day, in youth and that the somewhat rangy
specimens ("dry cows" or the injured) likely to fall to the selection of
what to slaughter for the house and crew

TMO