I don't know what I was thinking when I signed up to enter raspberry jelly
and peach jam into the state fair -- I guess I thought if I was going to
bother entering at all, it should be for more than just salsa.

At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put in
a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I refrigerated
is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.

What happened? Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
properties? When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method? If it
matters, I put the cooked jelly into one of those bottom-spout measuring
cups and poured it into the jars to avoid getting any foam in the jelly.

I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it. But now I'm reading
the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on top
of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."

I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?

Anny

Anny Middon wrote:

> At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
> ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
> with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put in
> a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I refrigerated
> is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.

Wait a few more days (a full two weeks) and see what happens. If
they're still runny, then reprocess.

Hmmm. The "Home Canning" page with the instructions on how to reset
jellies/jams has been replaced by some ridiculous slow-loading page with
a Flash animation of a jam jar (is that necessary?), distracting music
and stupid PDFs to download (not everyone has broadband). But maybe
it's in here somewhe

http://www.freshpreserving.com/pages...solving/39.php

> What happened? Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
> properties? When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method?

Is that the one where you don't process the jars, but pour the hot jelly
into the jars and let them "process" themselves (seal)? I don't think
that's recommended any more.

> I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
> called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
> happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it. But now I'm reading
> the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
> made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on top
> of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
> without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
> semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."
>
> I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
> remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?

Sounds like it.

B/
>
> Anny
>
>
>

"Brian Mailman" > wrote in message
...
> Anny Middon wrote:
>
>> At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
>> ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
>> with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put
>> in
>> a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I
>> refrigerated
>> is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.
>
> Wait a few more days (a full two weeks) and see what happens. If they're
> still runny, then reprocess.
>
> Hmmm. The "Home Canning" page with the instructions on how to reset
> jellies/jams has been replaced by some ridiculous slow-loading page with a
> Flash animation of a jam jar (is that necessary?), distracting music and
> stupid PDFs to download (not everyone has broadband). But maybe it's in
> here somewhe
>
> http://www.freshpreserving.com/pages...solving/39.php
>
>> What happened? Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
>> properties? When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method?

weird eh? I always find I get a better set with the last jar of whatever is
in the pot, that gets stuck in the fridge because it's not a FULL jar, (and
not processed.) What happenes if you put a processed jar in the fridge?

The inversion method means turning the jars upside down (not processing in
the BWB) doesn't it? As Brian said, that's not recommended anymore - and I
bet is unacceptable for fair entries anyway.


>
> Is that the one where you don't process the jars, but pour the hot jelly
> into the jars and let them "process" themselves (seal)? I don't think
> that's recommended any more.
>
>> I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
>> called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
>> happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it.

layered effect - as in floating fruit ? as in there's jelly at the bottom
and fruit chunks at the top? Try stirring (and skimming foam as necessary)
for 5 minutes after you remove from heat but before you pour in to jars.
This is recommended with most/all instructions I've ever read, and I find it
works for me.



But now I'm reading
>> the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
>> made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on
>> top
>> of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
>> without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
>> semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."
>>
>> I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
>> remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?

well, I've made peach jam with chopped fruit and I've made peach jam with
crushed fruit. I liked the consitency and appearance of the crushed fruit
jam better (but both taste fine) Perhaps that's why the fair guidlines
state crushed.

It does sound like you'll need to do another batch.

Good luck,
Kathi

>
> Sounds like it.
>
> B/
>>
>> Anny
>>
>>

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:32:26 GMT, "Anny Middon"
> wrote:

>I don't know what I was thinking when I signed up to enter raspberry jelly
>and peach jam into the state fair -- I guess I thought if I was going to
>bother entering at all, it should be for more than just salsa.

As far as I know, there is not requirement to actually bring
everything you signed up for. If something does not work out then
don't worry about it.


>
>At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
>ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
>with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put in
>a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I refrigerated
>is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.
>
>What happened? Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
>properties? When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method?

Check the rules in the Fair manual. In NC the inversion method is not
acceptable. I like the instruction for remaking jams and jellies at
the Surejel/Certo site. It starts you with 1 cup of jelly. If that
works, then you can do the remainder.
http://www.kraftfoods.com/surejell/



>matters, I put the cooked jelly into one of those bottom-spout measuring
>cups and poured it into the jars to avoid getting any foam in the jelly.

A great ideal. I spend too much time trying to get rid of the foam.
Will try it tonight if I get the second batch of apple jelly made.
Everything is in the dishwasher right now and I am resting.


>
>I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
>called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
>happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it. But now I'm reading
>the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
>made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on top
>of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
>without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
>semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."
>
>I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
>remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?

I wouldn't bother.

Good luck!
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:56:17 -0700, Brian Mailman
> wrote:

>Anny Middon wrote:
>
>> At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
>> ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
>> with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put in
>> a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I refrigerated
>> is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.
>
>Wait a few more days (a full two weeks) and see what happens. If
>they're still runny, then reprocess.
>
>Hmmm. The "Home Canning" page with the instructions on how to reset
>jellies/jams has been replaced by some ridiculous slow-loading page with
>a Flash animation of a jam jar (is that necessary?), distracting music
>and stupid PDFs to download (not everyone has broadband). But maybe
>it's in here somewhe
>
>http://www.freshpreserving.com/pages...solving/39.php
>
>> What happened? Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
>> properties? When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method?
>
>Is that the one where you don't process the jars, but pour the hot jelly
>into the jars and let them "process" themselves (seal)? I don't think
>that's recommended any more.
>
>> I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
>> called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
>> happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it. But now I'm reading
>> the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
>> made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on top
>> of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
>> without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
>> semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."
>>
>> I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
>> remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?
>
>Sounds like it.

Here is the Surejel/Certo site.
http://www.kraftfoods.com/surejell/
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

The Cook wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:56:17 -0700, Brian Mailman
> > wrote:
>
>>Anny Middon wrote:
>>
>>> At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
>>> ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
>>> with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put in
>>> a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I refrigerated
>>> is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.
>>
>>Wait a few more days (a full two weeks) and see what happens. If
>>they're still runny, then reprocess.
>>
>>Hmmm. The "Home Canning" page with the instructions on how to reset
>>jellies/jams has been replaced by some ridiculous slow-loading page with
>>a Flash animation of a jam jar (is that necessary?), distracting music
>>and stupid PDFs to download (not everyone has broadband). But maybe
>>it's in here somewhe
>>
>>http://www.freshpreserving.com/pages...solving/39.php

> Here is the Surejel/Certo site.
> http://www.kraftfoods.com/surejell/

Thanks, I'll bookmark that instead. <miranda priestly voice> I simply
fail to understand why a perfectly usable site with great utility must
be "improved" to a point where even the outsourced phone support reading
from a script would find it difficult. </mpv>

B/

"Anny Middon" > wrote in message
et...
> I don't know what I was thinking when I signed up to enter raspberry jelly
> and peach jam into the state fair -- I guess I thought if I was going to
> bother entering at all, it should be for more than just salsa.
>
> At any rate, I made up a batch of raspberry jelly about a week and a half
> ago. I followed the recipe that came with the liquid pectin and ended up
> with more jelly than I had prepared jars for. The little bit that I put
in
> a container and refrigerated was very nicley jelled. The jar I
refrigerated
> is a bit runny, but not bad. The jars I processed are way too runny.
>
> What happened?

Don't use liquid pectin. I frankly am not sure why anyone bothers with it.
For starters the stuff has a much shorter shelf life than the powdered
stuff.
Secondly it introduces liquid which makes it harder to get a jell. Last,
the
instructions that come with it specify 4 cups of crushed berries, the
instructions
that come with powdered pectin specify 5 cups of crushed berries - the
end product is effectively less actual berry and more filler that came in
the
pectin bag. Not my cup of tea.

Ostensibly this is to make up the liquid that is missing from the powdered
pectin but there's a whole lot more chemistry going on. For starters your
also introducing a lot more acid with the extra cup of berries. You need
acid for the jelling.

The next issue are the rasberries themselves. Rasberries like all berries
ripen by starting out very acidic with a lot of natural pectin. As they
ripen and
get red the pectin is converted to sugar. The ripening continues after
they
are picked. If you used store-bought berries, or you got locally picked
berries and they sat around for a few days, then most of the natural pectin
will be gone and they will have an abundance of sugar. In that case adding
liquid certo is a recipie for the disaster you have. What you end up with
is
jam or jelly that is overloaded with sugar and very short acid and pectin.
It
will never jell. If you reprocess the only chance you will have of getting
a
jell is to decant the entire batch, add a packet of powdered pectin, and
maybe a teaspoon of lemon juice, and hope that the taste of the result isn't
too awful.

> Does processing the jelly interfere with the jelling
> properties?

No. To get jelling you need a balance of sugar, acid and pectin. If you
don't have this balance it won't jell, or it will take weeks to jell if it
does.
The easiest way to get this balance is to continually taste the mixture
as your stirring in the sugar. With very unripe fruit you need more sugar
and less pectin, with very ripe fruit you need less sugar and more pectin.
Pectin has no taste unfortunately but luckily it doesen't matter if you have
too much of it in the mix, what isn't used in the jelling won't affect
anything.
So the rule of thumb is put all the pectin in the recipie calls for and then
add in the sugar, when you get to the last few cups, make a decision then as
to whether it needs it or not. You can only use your taste experience for
this. Myself, I've made enough batches of blackberry jam that I can
tell at that point if the mix is going to be a good one or not, before I
even take it off the stove. Note of course, that hot jam tastes a lot
different than cold jam.

A mix that is too acid will jell, but the jelled jam or jelly will "leak"
liquid.
A mix that is too sugar will jell but the jell will be soft. A mix that
doesen't
have a high enough concentration of pectin won't jell at all.

Commercial manufacturers use technology to monitor their mixes and
a computer to determine ingredient balances to get the jell they want -
and in any case since most of them are using corn syrup instead of
sugar they are already dealing with a huge overage of liquid in the mix,
I shudder to think of how they correct that. It's why most of the
commercial stuff in the store tastes like dung. (IMHO)

Getting the jell is really the easy part of jam and jelly. The really hard
part is getting world class taste, and that is the real fun of making berry
jam and jelly (for me, at any rate) I'm not into marmalade or any of that,
so I can't speak for those fruits, but I suspect they work the same way.

To being with, as soon as the berry starts it's ripening process you have
a very short amount of time you can use it. That process continues
inexorably
whether the berry is picked or on the bush. The berry starts out high acid,
high pectin, low flavorants, low sugar. If you picked all berries early and
jamed them, you would end up with the equivalent of a Sweet Tart in
a jar - a jam that will jerk the sliva right out of your mouth along with
your teeth, but won't have a lot of taste. As the berry ripens it gets to
the midpoint where it has midlevel acid, midlevel sugar, highest flavorants,
midlevel pectin. At the end of the ripening cycle it has low acid, low
pectin,
high sugar, but the problem is the flavorant level has gone back down again.

Obviously the absolute best thing would be to use all mid ripened berries
as you get the highest level of flavorants and you can just adjust the
sugar and pectin to balance with the acid to get the best tasting jam or
jelly. It's impossible in practice even if you pick your own unless you
were
to taste every single berry you pick. I suppose that someone entering
jam in the Worlds' Fair would do exactly that, me I'm not that far gone.

What works for me is going to a U-pick farm in the morning, I can usually
pick about 10 pounds of rasberries in a couple of hours, then doing the
jamming -that-day-. Yes, it's harsh and makes for a long exhausting day.
One that I will immediately forget the other 364 days of the year that I'm
eating the jam I made. But doing it that way eliminates a lot of variables.
When picking I also try for a range of berries, picking from borderline
overripe, to borderline ripe, and everything in between. And, if you
aren't
eating a berry every couple of minutes, you probably aren't paying enough
attention to what your picking. In this way the batch of berries I end up
with is going to be averaged together.

My take on store-sold picked rasberries is by the time you get at them,
they are basically overripe. The stores don't care because since they
have so many berries all together in the display, even if the customer
tastes a berry the intensified smell from all the other berries is going to
make the berry taste really great.

When I remake the jam should I try the inversion method? If it
> matters, I put the cooked jelly into one of those bottom-spout measuring
> cups and poured it into the jars to avoid getting any foam in the jelly.
>

I don't care what anyone tells you, reprocessing jam that is already made
is going to reduce it's flavorant level. Unless all you are wanting to do
is
get a better "look", it's wasted time that could be better spend starting
over from scratch and doing it right to begin with. If you start out with
a runny jam or jelly that already has a high flavorant level, you can maybe
get away with it. Since for a lot of people food presentation affects their
taste perception, a runny jam that tastes better might to them actually
taste
worse than a jelled jam that has less flavor. In any case there's no
guarentees - you could reprocess and it still is runny. I once reprocessed
3 times and it still didn't jell - of course, the batch tasted like an old
sock when I got done with it, I mainly did it for experimentation's sake
just to see what it would take to get it to jell.

Keep in mind that the basic tastes (in this case, sweet and sour) are
unaffected by reprocessing.

> I made the peach jam using the recipe again on the pectin. The recipe
> called for chopped fruit. I got the usual layered effect -- okay, that
> happens and I've never figured out how to prevent it.

That happens for several reasons, and a combination of things. Pouring
too hot and not stirring in between pouring jars allows separation to occur
in the pan, but the biggie is the sugar in the liquid
part of the mix is making it denser than the density of the fruit. How
sweet
were the peaches when you made the jam? If they wern't very sweet, that
is, not very ripe, and you put a lot of sugar in, the fruit pieces will
float.

This will happen even if the fruit is crushed. You will get jam on the top
of
the jar and a layer of jelly on the bottom.

> But now I'm reading
> the guidelines from the state fair premium book, and it reads, "Jams are
> made of crushed fruits, mixed with sugar and cooked until thick. Mold on
top
> of jam disqualifies it for judging. Good jam has a soft even consistency
> without distinct pieces of fruit, a bright color, and a good fruit and
> semi-jellied texture that is easy to spread and has no fruit liquids."
>
> I know that berry jams are made with crushed fruit, but I guess I need to
> remake my peach jam with crushed peaches, right?
>

Yes.

Ted