I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).

I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.

I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.

Dan

- - - -
My recipies:

Italian:

Tomatoes
Onions
Green peppers
Garlic
Italian herbs
Salt and pepper
Citric acid


Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.

Add chopped peppers, fry some more.

Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and add
citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
boiling water, and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside down
to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F). Label
and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after quite a
number of years using this method.

- - - -

Hot Sauce

10 lb tomatoes to one lb jalepenos
Salt and pepper to taste
Chili powder (optional)
Citric acid

Cook tomatoes and diced jalepeno peppers, with spices, add citric acid
and can with method aboved. Again, it has kept for me for many years
with no evident spoilage of any kind.

Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
...
> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
>
> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>
> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
>
> Dan
>
> - - - -
> My recipies:
>
> Italian:
>
> Tomatoes
> Onions
> Green peppers
> Garlic
> Italian herbs
> Salt and pepper
> Citric acid
>
>
> Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.
>
> Add chopped peppers, fry some more.
>
> Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and add
> citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
> boiling water, and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside down
> to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F). Label
> and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after quite a
> number of years using this method.
>
> - - - -
>
> Hot Sauce
>
> 10 lb tomatoes to one lb jalepenos
> Salt and pepper to taste
> Chili powder (optional)
> Citric acid
>
> Cook tomatoes and diced jalepeno peppers, with spices, add citric acid
> and can with method aboved. Again, it has kept for me for many years
> with no evident spoilage of any kind.
>
> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

salsa, salsa, and more salsa. That's what I did with 50 pounds of romas.
You could also make your own ketchup with that many tomatoes, but from what
I heard, the yield is low (makes sense). Basic tomato sauces are in the
Ball Blue Book, or at www.homecanning.com for more 'approved for canning'
ideas

Kathi

Dan_Musicant wrote:
> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
>
> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>
> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
>
> Dan

What about sun dried?

--
Ginny - in West Australia

Plan ahead ... It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark. -- Unknown

Ginny wrote:
> Dan_Musicant wrote:
>> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
>> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
>> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
>> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
>> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
>> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>>
>> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
>> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
>> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
>> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
>> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
>> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
>>
>> Dan
>
> What about sun dried?
>

What about...roasting halves with chopped garlic...then freezing?

tutu in western Michigan

"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
...
> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
>
> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>
> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas

If it was me I'd get some tomatoes, get some carrots and other veggies,
and try to duplicate V-8 in a blender. Once I got something that was
drinkable (I don't care for just plain tomato juice) I'd juice and can the
lot in narrow mouth quart jars.

Ted

Norma Mastenbrook wrote:
> What about...roasting halves with chopped garlic...then freezing?
>
> tutu in western Michigan

Oh Yumm!
--
Ginny - in West Australia

Plan ahead ... It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark. -- Unknown

"Ginny" > wrote in message
...
> Dan_Musicant wrote:
>> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
>> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
>> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree). I eat them daily in
>> salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
>> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
>> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>>
>> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
>> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
>> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
>> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
>> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
>> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
>>
>> Dan
>
> What about sun dried?
>
> --
> Ginny - in West Australia

How about sun dried, then pickled? Pickled tomatoes by theirselfs is not
something I'd relish. Get it? Relish. Green tomato relish can be had also,
or using firm red ones maybe. I pickled some tomatillos once. Once. Was
edible.
Edrena

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:54:20 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:

:
:"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
.. .
:> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
:> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
:> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
:>
:> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
:> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
:> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
:>
:> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
:> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
:> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
:> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
:> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas
:
:If it was me I'd get some tomatoes, get some carrots and other veggies,
:and try to duplicate V-8 in a blender. Once I got something that was
:drinkable (I don't care for just plain tomato juice) I'd juice and can the
:lot in narrow mouth quart jars.
:
:Ted

Sounds delicious, but I fear it wouldn't keep. I'd have to get it very
hot to kill fungus spores, right? At least 160 F. That would alter the
chemistry and taste. Maybe doable. Has anyone done this?

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:42:35 -0400, Norma Mastenbrook
> wrote:

:What about...roasting halves with chopped garlic...then freezing?
:
:tutu in western Michigan

Well, it might make a meal. How exactly do you do that? Place halves,
cut side up on bake sheet and sprinkle chopped garlic on top, maybe some
salt and pepper and roast 1/2 hour at 350 F? I don't actually have much
room in my freezer, but it sounds like a meal? Doesn't seem like
something that would freeze/reconstitute well, actually.

Dan

Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:01:20 -0400, "Kathi Jones" >
wrote:

:
:"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
.. .
:> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
:> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
:> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
:>
:> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
:> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
:> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
:>
:> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
:> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
:> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
:> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
:> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
:> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
:>
:> Dan
:>
:> - - - -
:> My recipies:
:>
:> Italian:
:>
:> Tomatoes
:> Onions
:> Green peppers
:> Garlic
:> Italian herbs
:> Salt and pepper
:> Citric acid
:>
:>
:> Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.
:>
:> Add chopped peppers, fry some more.
:>
:> Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and add
:> citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
:> boiling water, and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside down
:> to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F). Label
:> and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after quite a
:> number of years using this method.
:>
:> - - - -
:>
:> Hot Sauce
:>
:> 10 lb tomatoes to one lb jalepenos
:> Salt and pepper to taste
:> Chili powder (optional)
:> Citric acid
:>
:> Cook tomatoes and diced jalepeno peppers, with spices, add citric acid
:> and can with method aboved. Again, it has kept for me for many years
:> with no evident spoilage of any kind.
:>
:> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
:
:salsa, salsa, and more salsa. That's what I did with 50 pounds of romas.
:You could also make your own ketchup with that many tomatoes, but from what
:I heard, the yield is low (makes sense). Basic tomato sauces are in the
:Ball Blue Book, or at www.homecanning.com for more 'approved for canning'
:ideas
:
:Kathi


Thanks. Does my "Hot Sauce" recipe above strike you as salsa or do you
have something else in mind? I'd appreciate a recipe!

Thanks for the link, I'm going there now...

Dan

PS I'm pretty fussy when it come to ketchup. I like Heinz and nothing
else. Besides, I eat pretty little ketchup!


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:07:52 -0700, Dan_Musicant >
wrote:

>On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 00:42:35 -0400, Norma Mastenbrook
> wrote:
>
>:What about...roasting halves with chopped garlic...then freezing?
>:
>:tutu in western Michigan
>
>Well, it might make a meal. How exactly do you do that? Place halves,
>cut side up on bake sheet and sprinkle chopped garlic on top, maybe some
>salt and pepper and roast 1/2 hour at 350 F? I don't actually have much
>room in my freezer, but it sounds like a meal? Doesn't seem like
>something that would freeze/reconstitute well, actually.
>
>Dan
>
Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. Watch to see how long
you need to cook since ovens differ.


* Exported from MasterCook *

Tomato Sauce

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:25
Categories :

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
20 Roma tomatoes -- halved and seeded
1/4 cup olive oil
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
1 teaspoon pepper
1 cup finely diced onion
2 teaspoons minced garlic
1 tablespoon finely chopped oregano leaves
1 tablespoon finely chopped thyme leaves
1 cup white wine

Preheat oven to 325 degrees F.

In 2 (13 by 9-inch) pans place tomato halves cut side up. Sprinkle
with oil, salt and pepper, onion, garlic, and herbs. Bake tomatoes for
2 hours. Check the tomatoes after 1 hour and turn down the heat if
they seem to be cooking too quickly. Then turn the oven to 400 degrees
and bake another 30 minutes. Remove from the oven and process tomatoes
through a food mill on medium dye setting over a small saucepan.
Discard skins. Add white wine, bring to a boil, reduce heat to low and
cook for 5 minutes.

Source:
"Recipe courtesy Alton Brown Show: Good Eats Episode: Tomatoes"
S(Internet Address):

"http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/recipes/recipe/0,,FOOD_9936_20175,00.html?rsrc=search"
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- -

Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
Vegetable; 11 Fat.


Nutr. Assoc. : 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

The Cook wrote:

> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>
> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
> Vegetable; 11 Fat.

Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.

B/

"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:01:20 -0400, "Kathi Jones" >
> wrote:
>
> :
> :"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
> .. .
> :> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> :> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> :> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
> :>
> :> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc.
> I've
> :> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> :> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
> :>
> :> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato)
> for
> :> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> :> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> :> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> :> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
> :> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
> :>
> :> Dan
> :>
> :> - - - -
> :> My recipies:
> :>
> :> Italian:
> :>
> :> Tomatoes
> :> Onions
> :> Green peppers
> :> Garlic
> :> Italian herbs
> :> Salt and pepper
> :> Citric acid
> :>
> :>
> :> Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.
> :>
> :> Add chopped peppers, fry some more.
> :>
> :> Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and
> add
> :> citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
> :> boiling water, and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside
> down
> :> to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F). Label
> :> and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after quite a
> :> number of years using this method.
> :>
> :> - - - -
> :>
> :> Hot Sauce
> :>
> :> 10 lb tomatoes to one lb jalepenos
> :> Salt and pepper to taste
> :> Chili powder (optional)
> :> Citric acid
> :>
> :> Cook tomatoes and diced jalepeno peppers, with spices, add citric acid
> :> and can with method aboved. Again, it has kept for me for many years
> :> with no evident spoilage of any kind.
> :>
> :> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
> :
> :salsa, salsa, and more salsa. That's what I did with 50 pounds of romas.
> :You could also make your own ketchup with that many tomatoes, but from
> what
> :I heard, the yield is low (makes sense). Basic tomato sauces are in the
> :Ball Blue Book, or at www.homecanning.com for more 'approved for
> canning'
> :ideas
> :
> :Kathi
>
>
> Thanks. Does my "Hot Sauce" recipe above strike you as salsa or do you
> have something else in mind? I'd appreciate a recipe!
>
> Thanks for the link, I'm going there now...
>
> Dan
>
> PS I'm pretty fussy when it come to ketchup. I like Heinz and nothing
> else. Besides, I eat pretty little ketchup!
>
>
> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

ya, I feel the same way about ketchup.

I make salsa using the recipes at the homecanning.com site (I've got the
book too) Your recipe looks rough, but about the same, I guess. What makes
it safe is the quantity of each item, and the acid. Salsa recipes I've made
add additional acid (cider vinegar usually, sometimes white vinegar, lime or
lemon juice) because there are so many vegetables in the recipe - tomatoes,
onions, peppers, garlic and seasonings. I see you use citric acid - I
haven't used it so I can't comment.

I think you'll find safe for canning sauce recipes at that site too

Good luck,

Kathi

"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:54:20 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
> .. .
> :> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> :> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> :> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
> :>
> :> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc.
I've
> :> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> :> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
> :>
> :> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato)
for
> :> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> :> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> :> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> :> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas
> :
> :If it was me I'd get some tomatoes, get some carrots and other veggies,
> :and try to duplicate V-8 in a blender. Once I got something that was
> :drinkable (I don't care for just plain tomato juice) I'd juice and can
the
> :lot in narrow mouth quart jars.
> :
> :Ted
>
> Sounds delicious, but I fear it wouldn't keep. I'd have to get it very
> hot to kill fungus spores, right? At least 160 F.

Higher - boiling water temp. It has to be acidic as well. I think the
recommendations are a tablespoon of lemon juice per quart? Look
up acidifying tomatoes.

160F is fine for
reheating previously cooked stuff, or melting sugar, making coffee, hot
chocolate, etc. It's also common for breaking down cell walls in fruits
and vegetables - ie: simmering apples and suchlike - to make them
soft.

But for -anything- packed in a low or no-oxygen container ie: canning,
that temp will create botulism toxin quicker than you can imagine.

> That would alter the
> chemistry and taste.

My experience is that what matters isn't the heat as much as the length of
time.

I would pack it in quarts and do 30 minutes in a BWB. Get the water
boiling,
put in the jars, then get them right out at the 30 minute time. I would bet
money
though, that the vegetable juice companies use 240 F in a pressure canner
for
-all- juices of any kind. The liability to do it any other way is just too
risky.

375F is very common for heating pizza and I really don't
think the taste changes as much as texture.

Naturally, what your doing here is experimentation so you would do a real
small batch - like 1 quart - and see how it tastes after canning. But after
all,
that's the real fun in cooking.

Ted

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:02:37 -0400, "Kathi Jones" >
wrote:

:ya, I feel the same way about ketchup.
:
: I make salsa using the recipes at the homecanning.com site (I've got the
:book too) Your recipe looks rough, but about the same, I guess. What makes
:it safe is the quantity of each item, and the acid. Salsa recipes I've made
:add additional acid (cider vinegar usually, sometimes white vinegar, lime or
:lemon juice) because there are so many vegetables in the recipe - tomatoes,
nions, peppers, garlic and seasonings. I see you use citric acid - I
:haven't used it so I can't comment.
:
:I think you'll find safe for canning sauce recipes at that site too
:
:Good luck,
:
:Kathi

Thanks. I didn't used to add citric acid to my salsa until 4 or so years
ago. I posted (I think in this newsgroup) asking why my salsa was going
bad so soon after I'd open the jar. It used to keep fine (AFAIK) when
still sealed and in the pantry, but I'd open it, refrigerate it, and
within a week or so it would start tasting nasty - quite bitter and
bitey. People said I should be adding citric acid. I looked into it, and
bought about 1/2 a pound of it from a brewing supply store and have been
using it ever since. The upshoot is that my salsa now keeps for weeks
after opening it, probably for at least a couple of months. In fact, I
don't recall it going bad at all even with long stays in the
refrigerator now.

If you ever have problems with it going bad, you might consider adding
citric acid. I guess vinegar, lemon juice, or other acid might be just
as beneficial, however.

Maybe I'll try a fancier salsa this time, with onions and garlic. I
usually just have those in my Italian sauce. I sure have to do something
within the week, because the crop is calling to me.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

Brian Mailman > expounded:

>The Cook wrote:
>
>> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>>
>> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
>> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
>> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
>> Vegetable; 11 Fat.
>
>Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.
>
>B/
Probably forgot to put the number of servings into the recipe
properties.
--
Ann
e-mail address is not checked

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:37:30 -0700, Brian Mailman
> wrote:

>The Cook wrote:
>
>> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>>
>> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
>> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
>> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
>> Vegetable; 11 Fat.
>
>Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.
>
>B/

Yield is 4 cups. How many servings is that for you?
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:12:05 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt" >
wrote:

:
:"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
.. .
:> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 21:54:20 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
:> > wrote:
:>
:> :
:> :"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
:> .. .
:> :> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
:> :> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
:> :> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
:> :>
:> :> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc.
:I've
:> :> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
:> :> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
:> :>
:> :> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato)
:for
:> :> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
:> :> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
:> :> the most? I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
:> :> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas
:> :
:> :If it was me I'd get some tomatoes, get some carrots and other veggies,
:> :and try to duplicate V-8 in a blender. Once I got something that was
:> :drinkable (I don't care for just plain tomato juice) I'd juice and can
:the
:> :lot in narrow mouth quart jars.
:> :
:> :Ted
:>
:> Sounds delicious, but I fear it wouldn't keep. I'd have to get it very
:> hot to kill fungus spores, right? At least 160 F.
:
:Higher - boiling water temp. It has to be acidic as well. I think the
:recommendations are a tablespoon of lemon juice per quart? Look
:up acidifying tomatoes.
:
:160F is fine for
:reheating previously cooked stuff, or melting sugar, making coffee, hot
:chocolate, etc. It's also common for breaking down cell walls in fruits
:and vegetables - ie: simmering apples and suchlike - to make them
:soft.
:
:But for -anything- packed in a low or no-oxygen container ie: canning,
:that temp will create botulism toxin quicker than you can imagine.

I don't think botulism attacks tomatos. Too acid. Plus, I add citric
acid nowadays.
:
:> That would alter the
:> chemistry and taste.
:
:My experience is that what matters isn't the heat as much as the length of
:time.
:
:I would pack it in quarts and do 30 minutes in a BWB. Get the water
:boiling,
ut in the jars, then get them right out at the 30 minute time. I would bet
:money
:though, that the vegetable juice companies use 240 F in a pressure canner
:for
:-all- juices of any kind. The liability to do it any other way is just too
:risky.
:
:375F is very common for heating pizza and I really don't
:think the taste changes as much as texture.
:
:Naturally, what your doing here is experimentation so you would do a real
:small batch - like 1 quart - and see how it tastes after canning. But after
:all,
:that's the real fun in cooking.
:
:Ted

Thanks. There's two things I have a lot of:

1. Vine ripe tomatoes

2. Narrow mouth quart canning jars (around 2 dozen!).

I bought the jars many years ago when I got into canning plums. Quarts
and quarts of plum conserve, which I eventually ate up. I would put it
in cole slaw! It was an inspiration. Otherwise, I found it unpalatable
after a time.

I do have a pressure canner (All-American) that will accommodate 4
one-quart Ball jars standing up, with guage. Haven't used it in years,
but it's ready to go. Normally, I can without using it and haven't had
problems. Of course, I've stuck with jams and tomato sauces (recipies in
the OP), and as long as fungus spores are killed, nothing ever goes
wrong. Somehow, bacteria don't seem to be interested in those. I also
canned a bumper crop of cucumbers in quart jars one year using a dill
pickle recipe. I still have one jar, but I know when I open it, the
pickles will be inedible even though the brine was quite salty. They
just look that way! It's been a long time.

I must do something today. I'll look into the V8 idea and maybe expand
on my recipies, adding additional veges to the salsa and basil to the
Italian (lot of basil growing in pots in the yard).

Dan

Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

The Cook wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:37:30 -0700, Brian Mailman
> > wrote:
>
>>The Cook wrote:
>>
>>> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>>>
>>> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
>>> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
>>> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
>>> Vegetable; 11 Fat.
>>
>>Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.

> Yield is 4 cups. How many servings is that for you?

That would depend on what I was using the sauce for. If as a marinara
over pasta, maybe 1/2 cup or so. I'm surprised that Food Network
wouldn't have a nutritional analysis on their site. Do you know in what
context the sauce was prepared?

B/

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:51:33 -0700, Brian Mailman
> wrote:

>The Cook wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:37:30 -0700, Brian Mailman
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>The Cook wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>>>>
>>>> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
>>>> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
>>>> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
>>>> Vegetable; 11 Fat.
>>>
>>>Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.
>
>> Yield is 4 cups. How many servings is that for you?
>
>That would depend on what I was using the sauce for. If as a marinara
>over pasta, maybe 1/2 cup or so. I'm surprised that Food Network
>wouldn't have a nutritional analysis on their site. Do you know in what
>context the sauce was prepared?
>
>B/

I don't remember. Check it out.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

I picked tomatoes until I had about as much as I figured I could deal
with, 25+ lb. (I weighed them). Average size was about 3 ounce.

I made Italian sauce, the recipe in the OP except that I forgot to
mention that I always add bay leaves. This time I added a lot of fresh
basil.

It came out very intense! Also, quite sweet (no sugar added). It's so
intense that I figure I'll add unseasoned meat (ground beef), rather
than sausage, such as I've been doing.

Wound up with over 30 jars.

I thought about salsa, but did an inventory and counted about 2 dozen
jars of salsa on my shelves. Most of the jars are very small, perfect
for a single pizza. I think it'll make an excellent pizza sauce, tangy
as it is.

Dan

The Cook wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 09:51:33 -0700, Brian Mailman
> > wrote:
>
>>The Cook wrote:
>>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:37:30 -0700, Brian Mailman
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>The Cook wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is Alton Brown's recipe for tomato sauce. ...
>>>>>
>>>>> ....Per Serving (excluding unknown items): 1168 Calories; 62g Fat (49.8%
>>>>> calories from fat); 22g Protein; 119g Carbohydrate; 28g Dietary Fiber;
>>>>> 0mg Cholesterol; 1175mg Sodium. Exchanges: 0 Grain(Starch); 22 1/2
>>>>> Vegetable; 11 Fat.
>>>>
>>>>Nit..... that looks more like per recipe rather than per serving.
>>
>>> Yield is 4 cups. How many servings is that for you?
>>
>>That would depend on what I was using the sauce for. If as a marinara
>>over pasta, maybe 1/2 cup or so. I'm surprised that Food Network
>>wouldn't have a nutritional analysis on their site. Do you know in what
>>context the sauce was prepared?
>>
>>B/
>
> I don't remember. Check it out.

I did. There's no context, just the recipe.

B/

In article >,
Dan_Musicant > wrote:

> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
>
> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
>
> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
> the most?

The only tomato products I can are stewed tomatoes (tomato, celery,
onions, and green pepper) -- using the recipe on the University of
Minnesota Extension Division site (www.extension.umn.edu -- food
preserving is under "Living" (find that link near the top of the page) --
and tomato juice. When I make the stewed tomatoes, I measure carefully.

> I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?

I don't think that any of us can answer that question for another. Is
it practical? Does that mean economical? If you buy the produce and
then try to put a price on your time, fuel consumption, and sweat
equity involved in canning, it's probably not economical.

OTOH, if you've got good help, enough room for more than one butt, and
some decent equipment (for the tomato juice), it can be a fun time with
family or friends and I don't know that that is anything but priceless.

I don't know if you've been lurking here, Dan. I can for the heck of
it. I'm probably r.f.p.'s biggest Ribbon Slut. I make about 5 pints of
stewed tomatoes and enter one in the Minnesota State Fair. My stewed
tomatoes have won blue ribbons in the two years that I've entered them.
Same thing with tomato juice (also two blue ribbons). The tomato juice
is incredibly delicious. It would make you weep. I made enough for my
Fair entry and then decided it was so good, I made some more and put up
about three half pint jars for my son to take to a friend who can't have
sugar. (Seems like there's sometimes sugar in the ingredient list for
some commercial juice.) I was prepared to offer some to Gloria Puester
when she was visiting me this weekend but she said she's not overmuch
fond of it and I withdrew my offer. :-)

> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
>
> Dan
>
> - - - -
> My recipies:
>
> Italian:
>
> Tomatoes
> Onions
> Green peppers

How much onion and pepper in relation to the tomatoes?

> Garlic
> Italian herbs

Basil and oregano?

> Salt and pepper
> Citric acid

How much and when and where do you put it?

> Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.
>
> Add chopped peppers, fry some more.
>
> Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and add
> citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
> boiling water,

Why did you put "sterilized" in quotation marks? Do you boil the empty
jars for at least 10 minutes?

> and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside down
> to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F).

You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
that, from their FAQ list:

Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
packed into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
obtained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
to jar and cause spoilage.

and

If my recipe doesn't call for processing, do I need to do so?
Many recipes passed down through the years or found in older cookbooks
do not include instructions for processing. The foods are usually canned
by the open kettle method, sealed and stored. Foods prepared in this
manner present a serious health risk -- particularly low acid foods. To
minimize the risk of food spoilage, all high acid foods should be
processed in a water bath canner or pressure canner and all low acid
foods in a pressure canner.

>Label and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after
>quite a number of years using this method.

Yet.
Do you boil the tomatoes for 15 minutes before you eat them?
That'll kill any nasties that didn't die in the prep.

Here's a link to a tomato-vegetable juice blend:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/...veg_juice.html

--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07

In article >,
"Ted Mittelstaedt" > wrote:

> It has to be acidic as well. I think the
> recommendations are a tablespoon of lemon juice per quart?

> Ted

Two tablespoons lemon juice per quart.
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/tomato_intro.html
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07

In article >,
Dan_Musicant > wrote:

> If you ever have problems with it going bad, you might consider adding
> citric acid. I guess vinegar, lemon juice, or other acid might be just
> as beneficial, however.
> Dan

I use citric acid instead of lemon juice or vinegar. It provides the
acidity without any flavor.
--
-Barb, Mother Superior, HOSSSPoJ
For your listening pleasu http://www.am1500.com/pcast/80509.mp3 --
from the MN State Fair, 8-29-07

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

:In article >,
: Dan_Musicant > wrote:
:
:> I'm pretty good at growing tomatoes (had lots of practice!). I have a
:> very decent crop hanging on my Early Girl plants (6, 4 doing very well,
:> the first two are too close to a giant plum tree).
:>
:> I eat them daily in salads, sandwiches, burritos, out of hand, etc. I've
:> given a lot away, but I have probably 20-40 lb ripe fruit hanging out
:> there right now, vine ripe and begging to be canned.
:>
:> I've canned Italian tomato sauce and hot sauce (jalepeno and tomato) for
:> years and have a fair amount on hand. So, I'm looking for other ideas.
:> How do you can tomatoes, what are you most glad to have on hand and use
:> the most?
:
:The only tomato products I can are stewed tomatoes (tomato, celery,
nions, and green pepper) -- using the recipe on the University of
:Minnesota Extension Division site (www.extension.umn.edu -- food
reserving is under "Living" (find that link near the top of the page) --
:and tomato juice. When I make the stewed tomatoes, I measure carefully.

That doesn't put me off, measuring carefully. I always got an A in
chemistry, HS and college. I was meticulous in lab. When I began
cooking, I was almost equally careful. Of course, once I get the hang of
cooking, I loosened up some. I often cook freehand, no measuring at all.
But when I want to, I can be very strict in the kitchen (i.e. measure
carefully). I usually do that when trying a new recipe so that I know
how a dish is "supposed" to come out. With my new bread machine, I am
extremely careful in measurments!
:
:> I'm wondering if it's practical to make and can tomato juice,
:> or just plain canned tomatoes and am looking for other ideas. Recipies?
:
:I don't think that any of us can answer that question for another. Is
:it practical? Does that mean economical? If you buy the produce and
:then try to put a price on your time, fuel consumption, and sweat
:equity involved in canning, it's probably not economical.
:
:OTOH, if you've got good help, enough room for more than one butt, and
:some decent equipment (for the tomato juice), it can be a fun time with
:family or friends and I don't know that that is anything but priceless.
:
:I don't know if you've been lurking here, Dan. I can for the heck of
:it. I'm probably r.f.p.'s biggest Ribbon Slut. I make about 5 pints of
:stewed tomatoes and enter one in the Minnesota State Fair. My stewed
:tomatoes have won blue ribbons in the two years that I've entered them.

I'll try that recipe for sure. I have the ingredients right now, no
store trips necessary. Actually, I'm growing basil and actually have a
volunteer celery in the midst of my kabocha squash patch right now. I've
been careful all summer to give it elbow room. However, it's still not
big enough to clip from, so I bought a stalk a week or two ago.
Carefully stored it keeps a long time in the refrigerator. I anticipate
that as the weather cools, the celery in the yard will do better, as it
has in the past.

:Same thing with tomato juice (also two blue ribbons). The tomato juice
:is incredibly delicious. It would make you weep.

What recipe do you use for tomato juice? Is it the link at the bottom?

:Here's a link to a tomato-vegetable juice blend:
:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/...veg_juice.html

That one? I must know!

:I made enough for my
:Fair entry and then decided it was so good, I made some more and put up
:about three half pint jars for my son to take to a friend who can't have
:sugar. (Seems like there's sometimes sugar in the ingredient list for
:some commercial juice.) I was prepared to offer some to Gloria Puester
:when she was visiting me this weekend but she said she's not overmuch
:fond of it and I withdrew my offer. :-)
:
:> Links? See my recipies for Italian and Hot Sauce below. TIA.
:>
:> Dan
:>
:> - - - -
:> My recipies:
:>
:> Italian:
:>
:> Tomatoes
:> Onions
:> Green peppers
:
:How much onion and pepper in relation to the tomatoes?

I don't measure, but I just made a big batch of this on Saturday (2 days
ago), and it came out best ever. I had 25 lb. tomatoes and added about 3
large green peppers cut in one inch pieces and 2 huge onions, chopped.
The onions were such that they were equivalent to about 5-6 medium
onions.
:
:> Garlic
:> Italian herbs
:
:Basil and oregano?

Yes, this time I added basil (which I never used to do) and a
considerable amount. No oregano except what might have been in the
Italian herbs, of which I added around 2-3 tablespoons. It is from a big
container of it I got at Costco, McCormick. It contains oregano, basil
too, but in my experience dried basil is approximately useless.
:
:> Salt and pepper
:> Citric acid
:
:How much and when and where do you put it?

I put in around 1.5 to 2 t salt, probably around 2 t ground pepper
(again from Costco), and 1/2 t citric acid per quart of sauce (just
before beginning the canning).

I also threw in some dried red pepper flakes, probably about 1.5 t.

My labels, computer printed, say it all: "Sweet, piquant and highly
seasoned." Of course, I added no sugar. However, it came out very sweet
indeed, and very piquant. It's so intense I don't believe I'll be using
spiced sausage with it, only unseasoned ground beef. I cooked it quite a
while, mostly in order to reduce the juiciness. It's rather thick!
:
:> Fry chopped onions in olive oil until translucent.
:>
:> Add chopped peppers, fry some more.
:>
:> Add chopped tomatoes, spices/herbs, chopped garlic. Boil a while and add
:> citric acid and pour into clean jars that have been "sterilized" in
:> boiling water,
:
:Why did you put "sterilized" in quotation marks? Do you boil the empty
:jars for at least 10 minutes?

Yes, about that. Not truly sterilezed, such as I'd get with my pressure
canner. I am most concerned with killing fungus spores. I've never
experienced any other kind of contamination of my tomato products, and
almost never that come to think of it. Even before I started using
citric acid I never had them go bad on the shelf, only in the
refrigerator after opening, like I said. The hot sauce would go bad very
quickly. Now that I use citric acid, I don't have that problem either.
:
:> and twist on covers securely. I turn the jars upside down
:> to make sure any fungus spores are dead (i.e. heated over 160 F).
:
:You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
:Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
:that, from their FAQ list:
:
:Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
:In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
acked into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
btained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
:spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
:microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
:to jar and cause spoilage.

It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted, not
to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.

:
:and
:
:If my recipe doesn't call for processing, do I need to do so?
:Many recipes passed down through the years or found in older cookbooks
:do not include instructions for processing. The foods are usually canned
:by the open kettle method, sealed and stored. Foods prepared in this
:manner present a serious health risk -- particularly low acid foods. To
:minimize the risk of food spoilage, all high acid foods should be
rocessed in a water bath canner or pressure canner and all low acid
:foods in a pressure canner.
:
:>Label and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after
:>quite a number of years using this method.
:
:Yet.
o you boil the tomatoes for 15 minutes before you eat them?
:That'll kill any nasties that didn't die in the prep.

Haven't done that. What is the danger? Not botulism, right? I presume
it's bacterial infection of some kind.

:
:Here's a link to a tomato-vegetable juice blend:
:http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/how/can_03/...veg_juice.html


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

Dan_Musicant wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:

> :You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
> :Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
> :that, from their FAQ list:
> :
> :Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
> :In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
> acked into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
> btained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
> :spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
> :microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
> :to jar and cause spoilage.
>
> It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted, not
> to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.

Statistics do not apply to individuals, but only to groups. It's fully
possible to play Russian Roulette for a few hours continuously without
that bang happening.

B/

Brian Mailman wrote:
> Dan_Musicant wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
>> > wrote:
>
>>> You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the
>>> National Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have
>>> to say about that, from their FAQ list:
>>>
>>> Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
>>> In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
>>> packed into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
>>> obtained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
>>> spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
>>> microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the
>>> kettle to jar and cause spoilage.
>>
>> It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted,
>> not to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.
>
> Statistics do not apply to individuals, but only to groups. It's
> fully possible to play Russian Roulette for a few hours continuously
> without that bang happening.
>
> B/

Not so with the Red Neck version of Russian roulette, you play that with an
loaded automatic.

"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> > wrote:

> :
> :If my recipe doesn't call for processing, do I need to do so?
> :Many recipes passed down through the years or found in older cookbooks
> :do not include instructions for processing. The foods are usually canned
> :by the open kettle method, sealed and stored. Foods prepared in this
> :manner present a serious health risk -- particularly low acid foods. To
> :minimize the risk of food spoilage, all high acid foods should be
> rocessed in a water bath canner or pressure canner and all low acid
> :foods in a pressure canner.
> :
> :>Label and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after
> :>quite a number of years using this method.
> :
> :Yet.
> o you boil the tomatoes for 15 minutes before you eat them?
> :That'll kill any nasties that didn't die in the prep.
>
> Haven't done that. What is the danger? Not botulism, right? I presume
> it's bacterial infection of some kind.
>

Not botulism, that requires low acid. Just your ordinary run of the
mill food poisoning that makes you sick to your stomach and throw
up.

Keep in mind with food poisoning that us humans have a stomach
full of acid, one of it's functions is to kill bacteria and such that are
in the food. There's always bacteria and germs on all food, whether
prepared or eaten raw. As long as the levels are below X, your
stomach will be able to produce enough acid to kill them off. The
problem is that X is different depending on many factors such as
time of day, how hungry you are, how much food you ate, etc.
And it is also different for different people.

My father is one of those who never gets sick from food, I've
seen him eat food that has obviously started turning bad, that
everyone else in the family says PU, toss it, with no ill effects.
My mother and brother and sister and myself are the opposite.
You cannot use the fact you have never got sick from canning
this way as any sort of proof that the way your canning would
be safe for everyone. This is why open kettle canning is deprecated
today. It's too variable to be sure it would produce food that is
OK for anyone to eat who might eat it.

Ted

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

:How much onion and pepper in relation to the tomatoes?
:
:> Garlic
:> Italian herbs
:
:Basil and oregano?

A thing I forgot to mention. I add bay leaves. In the batch described
from Saturday, 7 bay leaves, not tiny but not large. I added them early
and removed them one by one as I found them toward the end of the
process, while stirring.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:56:27 -0700, Brian Mailman >
wrote:

an_Musicant wrote:
:> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
:> > wrote:
:
:> :You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
:> :Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
:> :that, from their FAQ list:
:> :
:> :Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
:> :In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
:> acked into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
:> btained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
:> :spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
:> :microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
:> :to jar and cause spoilage.
:>
:> It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted, not
:> to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.
:
:Statistics do not apply to individuals, but only to groups. It's fully
ossible to play Russian Roulette for a few hours continuously without
:that bang happening.
:
:B/

Well, RR is not my bag... I know there's no hidden bullet in my jars.
What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
batch of tomato sauce? Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? Maybe I'm
taking a chance, however the admonishs are vague and I would take a
report of a specific occurrence much more seriously than a set of
standards I should adhere to. For instance, I read in the newspapers
(also TV news) of people eating certain species of Amanita mushrooms and
getting seriously ill or dieing and such reports make me very cautious
if I'm collecting wild mushrooms. Can anyone direct me to a report of
someone getting ill when eating canned tomatoes?

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 01:58:04 -0700, "Ted Mittelstaedt"
> wrote:

:
:"Dan_Musicant" > wrote in message
.. .
:> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
:> > wrote:
:
:> :
:> :If my recipe doesn't call for processing, do I need to do so?
:> :Many recipes passed down through the years or found in older cookbooks
:> :do not include instructions for processing. The foods are usually canned
:> :by the open kettle method, sealed and stored. Foods prepared in this
:> :manner present a serious health risk -- particularly low acid foods. To
:> :minimize the risk of food spoilage, all high acid foods should be
:> rocessed in a water bath canner or pressure canner and all low acid
:> :foods in a pressure canner.
:> :
:> :>Label and store. I've never had a problem with spoilage even after
:> :>quite a number of years using this method.
:> :
:> :Yet.
:> o you boil the tomatoes for 15 minutes before you eat them?
:> :That'll kill any nasties that didn't die in the prep.
:>
:> Haven't done that. What is the danger? Not botulism, right? I presume
:> it's bacterial infection of some kind.
:>
:
:Not botulism, that requires low acid. Just your ordinary run of the
:mill food poisoning that makes you sick to your stomach and throw
:up.
:
:Keep in mind with food poisoning that us humans have a stomach
:full of acid, one of it's functions is to kill bacteria and such that are
:in the food. There's always bacteria and germs on all food, whether
repared or eaten raw. As long as the levels are below X, your
:stomach will be able to produce enough acid to kill them off. The
roblem is that X is different depending on many factors such as
:time of day, how hungry you are, how much food you ate, etc.
:And it is also different for different people.
:
:My father is one of those who never gets sick from food, I've
:seen him eat food that has obviously started turning bad, that
:everyone else in the family says PU, toss it, with no ill effects.
:My mother and brother and sister and myself are the opposite.
:You cannot use the fact you have never got sick from canning
:this way as any sort of proof that the way your canning would
:be safe for everyone. This is why open kettle canning is deprecated
:today. It's too variable to be sure it would produce food that is
:OK for anyone to eat who might eat it.
:
:Ted

Thanks for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense. I sometimes eat
food that I sense is starting to go bad and never have a problem. Maybe
I realize where to draw the line. I did toss some leftover stir-fried
vegetables yesterday, for instance. They were way past where I would
accept them. I don't know why they went bad so fast, as I followed
procedures that normally have them keeping much better.

I did get pretty violently ill one day after dinner out with my family
(I was about 14). We all ate the same chicken dish, but I was the only
one who was TU all night. Other than that, I've not had a notable
experience with "food poisoning" that I can recall. Of course, the fact
that noone else was sick that night of the 4 of us suggests there may
have been something else at play besides the chicken going bad. I may
have been more susceptible for some reason(s).

I'll do some more research into this issue.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

Dan_Musicant wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:56:27 -0700, Brian Mailman >
> wrote:
>
> an_Musicant wrote:
> :> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> :> > wrote:
> :
> :> :You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
> :> :Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
> :> :that, from their FAQ list:
> :> :
> :> :Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
> :> :In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
> :> acked into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
> :> btained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
> :> :spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
> :> :microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
> :> :to jar and cause spoilage.
> :>
> :> It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted, not
> :> to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.
> :
> :Statistics do not apply to individuals, but only to groups. It's fully
> ossible to play Russian Roulette for a few hours continuously without
> :that bang happening.
> :
> :B/
>
> Well, RR is not my bag... I know there's no hidden bullet in my jars.

Botulism is odorless, tasteless... in another word, "hidden."

> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
> batch of tomato sauce?

Yes. Tomatoes these days are not uniformly high-acid foods, (maybe it
has something to do with shipping) and it's always recommended to
acidify them. That you say you do is certainly some help.

Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? Maybe I'm
> taking a chance, however the admonishs are vague...

The "admonishment" quoted is not vague.

B/

> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
> batch of tomato sauce? Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? ...

Well... in the past, BWB canning of tomatoes was considered enough.
However, now "they" say that tomato varieties have been bred to have
less acid than in the past, so pressure canning is recommended now.
Or you can add acid (lemon juice, etc.) to the tomatoes to be sure it
is acid enough to BWB.

***IF*** the tomato sauce was LOW ACID enough AND it was NOT PRESSURE
CANNED, then botulin poisoning would be a possibility. However, short
of measuring the PH of your sauce, I don't know how to be *SURE*.
Pressure canning for the right times and pressures should kill all
botulism bacteria AND spores.

Derric

"Derric" > wrote in message
...
>
>> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
>> batch of tomato sauce? Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
>> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? ...
>
> Well... in the past, BWB canning of tomatoes was considered enough.
> However, now "they" say that tomato varieties have been bred to have
> less acid than in the past, so pressure canning is recommended now.
> Or you can add acid (lemon juice, etc.) to the tomatoes to be sure it
> is acid enough to BWB.
>
> ***IF*** the tomato sauce was LOW ACID enough AND it was NOT PRESSURE
> CANNED, then botulin poisoning would be a possibility. However, short
> of measuring the PH of your sauce, I don't know how to be *SURE*.
> Pressure canning for the right times and pressures should kill all
> botulism bacteria AND spores.
>
> Derric
>
And when one starts adding low acid hot peppers (yes!), green peppers,
onions, garlic, and fresh green leafy herbs, the pH can creep up. It's best
to follow tested recipes, not just whatever we did was okay cause nobody's
died yet.
Some time ago here, a restaurant's help left some baked potatoes out
overnight, to make potato dip the next day. Oh lord, long warm sitting, non
acid, low oxygen insides, and root veggies to boot. Botulism is rare, but
when it hits, it is truly awful. And the ones that live sometimes one never
recovers from the nerve damage. It's little enuf to prevent me living on a
ventilator with seizures the rest of my life. Or my sons or grandsons having
to live so.
I'll add some acid to my tomato recipes (check our FAQ for equivalencies),
or pressure can (if I had one). Or follow lab tested recipes. I love me.
Edrena

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:13:19 -0700, Brian Mailman >
wrote:

an_Musicant wrote:
:> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:56:27 -0700, Brian Mailman >
:> wrote:
:>
:> an_Musicant wrote:
:> :> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
:> :> > wrote:
:> :
:> :> :You're doing open kettle canning; here's what the folks at the National
:> :> :Center for Home Food Preservation at the U of Georgia have to say about
:> :> :that, from their FAQ list:
:> :> :
:> :> :Why is open kettle canning not recommended?
:> :> :In open kettle canning, food is cooked in an ordinary kettle, then
:> :> acked into hot jars and sealed without processing. The temperatures
:> :> btained in open kettle canning are not high enough to destroy all
:> :> :spoilage and food poisoning organisms that may be in the food. Also,
:> :> :microorganisms can enter the food when it is transferred from the kettle
:> :> :to jar and cause spoilage.
:> :>
:> :> It's not happened to me with either of the sauce recipies I posted, not
:> :> to my knowledge. Never seen or tasted problems, never gotten ill.
:> :
:> :Statistics do not apply to individuals, but only to groups. It's fully
:> ossible to play Russian Roulette for a few hours continuously without
:> :that bang happening.
:> :
:> :B/
:>
:> Well, RR is not my bag... I know there's no hidden bullet in my jars.
:
:Botulism is odorless, tasteless... in another word, "hidden."
:
:> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
:> batch of tomato sauce?
:
:Yes. Tomatoes these days are not uniformly high-acid foods, (maybe it
:has something to do with shipping) and it's always recommended to
:acidify them. That you say you do is certainly some help.

I don't can shipped tomatoes, only the ones I grow. Plus, these days I
add 1/2 t citric acid/quart.
:
: Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
:> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? Maybe I'm
:> taking a chance, however the admonishs are vague...
:
:The "admonishment" quoted is not vague.
Your admonishment is by no means vague, but a procedure to follow
without reasoning supporting it seems vague as to the whys and
wherefores. That's what I see when they just say to pressure can or hot
water bath.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:20:39 -0000, Derric
> wrote:

:
:> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
:> batch of tomato sauce? Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
:> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? ...
:
:Well... in the past, BWB canning of tomatoes was considered enough.
:However, now "they" say that tomato varieties have been bred to have
:less acid than in the past, so pressure canning is recommended now.
:Or you can add acid (lemon juice, etc.) to the tomatoes to be sure it
:is acid enough to BWB.
:
:***IF*** the tomato sauce was LOW ACID enough AND it was NOT PRESSURE
:CANNED, then botulin poisoning would be a possibility. However, short
f measuring the PH of your sauce, I don't know how to be *SURE*.
:Pressure canning for the right times and pressures should kill all
:botulism bacteria AND spores.
:
erric

What does BWB stand for?

Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

- Posted to newsgroup and emailed -

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:15:21 -0500, Melba's Jammin'
> wrote:

:The only tomato products I can are stewed tomatoes (tomato, celery,
nions, and green pepper) -- using the recipe on the University of
:Minnesota Extension Division site (www.extension.umn.edu -- food
reserving is under "Living" (find that link near the top of the page) --
:and tomato juice. When I make the stewed tomatoes, I measure carefully.

I don't see a Stewed Tomatoes recipe there. They have one they call
Tomato Mixtu

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distrib...on/DJ1097.html

That has those ingredients. Is that the one you use? Thanks. Also, the
tomato juice you mention, is that the one on that page? TIA.

Dan


Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net

On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 18:57:28 GMT, "The Joneses" >
wrote:

>"Derric" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> What am I risking? Is it possible to have botulinus poisoning from a
>>> batch of tomato sauce? Or am I risking a tummy ache? Is it possible to
>>> get a fatal food poisoning from a batch of tomato sauce? ...
>>
>> Well... in the past, BWB canning of tomatoes was considered enough.
>> However, now "they" say that tomato varieties have been bred to have
>> less acid than in the past, so pressure canning is recommended now.
>> Or you can add acid (lemon juice, etc.) to the tomatoes to be sure it
>> is acid enough to BWB.
>>
>> ***IF*** the tomato sauce was LOW ACID enough AND it was NOT PRESSURE
>> CANNED, then botulin poisoning would be a possibility. However, short
>> of measuring the PH of your sauce, I don't know how to be *SURE*.
>> Pressure canning for the right times and pressures should kill all
>> botulism bacteria AND spores.
>>
>> Derric
>>
>And when one starts adding low acid hot peppers (yes!), green peppers,
>onions, garlic, and fresh green leafy herbs, the pH can creep up. It's best
>to follow tested recipes, not just whatever we did was okay cause nobody's
>died yet.
> Some time ago here, a restaurant's help left some baked potatoes out
>overnight, to make potato dip the next day. Oh lord, long warm sitting, non
>acid, low oxygen insides, and root veggies to boot. Botulism is rare, but
>when it hits, it is truly awful. And the ones that live sometimes one never
>recovers from the nerve damage. It's little enuf to prevent me living on a
>ventilator with seizures the rest of my life. Or my sons or grandsons having
>to live so.
> I'll add some acid to my tomato recipes (check our FAQ for equivalencies),
>or pressure can (if I had one). Or follow lab tested recipes. I love me.
>Edrena
>

I am going to do some playing. My neighbor has ph meter that he uses
to check his wine grapes. He gave it to me to check it out. It does
the reading to 2 decimal places. If the thing is not too expensive, I
may just buy one. Or maybe borrow his if he isn't using it.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

> What does BWB stand for?

Sorry 'bout that ... Boiling Water Bath.

Derric