Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
house on the main drag in our town.

On 9/28/2011 2:15 PM, George Shirley wrote:
> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
> house on the main drag in our town.


I just Googled and we have an Orowheat outlet about 6 miles away.
Good thought. Their bread is not bad at all and I love their English
muffins.

Funny, when they first started making them they cost much less than
Thomas's. Now the latter is on sale most of the time for 2/$5 and
the Orowheat are $3.49 a pkg. Probably worth the trip if I have freezer
space.

gloria p

George Shirley wrote:
> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
> house on the main drag in our town.


The Hostess thrift store here charges almost full price for used bread.
They used to have good deals before Interstate Bakeries went bankrupt
in 2004. When they came back they jacked the prices way up at the
outlet stores. I can get better fresh bread cheaper at Cub Foods and
Aldi. (both are cheaper than Walmart except for the really awful squishy
white bread.)

I can bake a 2 pound loaf of sourdough bread for just a few cents. At
least last time I bought a 25# bag of flour at Sam's it didn't cost
hardly anything -- but that was over a year ago.

-Bob

I bake as much of my own bread as possible--try to do Challah every
Friday, if I am not working, volunteering or traveling--and then
sometimes I will make it ahead of time so I can take it with. I
absolutely, love, adore, crave rye bread but have never really been
able to make a good loaf myself so, I buy it at the outlet store,
$1.59 a loaf. That's about half the price it is at the grocery store.
I've done Spelt with some success, just haven't made it for a while.

outstanding, we often wait for a sale if we are buying bread then freeze, if
its that close i would probably just get it when i wanted it, if you like
bread pudding these stores often have wonderful things for that as well, Lee
"George Shirley" > wrote in message
.com...
> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus. That's
> cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying bread
> from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the house on the
> main drag in our town.

our thomasas go on sale for a dollar a package evry so often at meijer,
regular are about three dollars, when we had freezer space we stocked up as
we both love english muffins, Lee
"gloria.p" > wrote in message
...
> On 9/28/2011 2:15 PM, George Shirley wrote:
>> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
>> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
>> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
>> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
>> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
>> house on the main drag in our town.
>
>
> I just Googled and we have an Orowheat outlet about 6 miles away.
> Good thought. Their bread is not bad at all and I love their English
> muffins.
>
> Funny, when they first started making them they cost much less than
> Thomas's. Now the latter is on sale most of the time for 2/$5 and
> the Orowheat are $3.49 a pkg. Probably worth the trip if I have freezer
> space.
>
> gloria p

"Storrmmee" > wrote:
> our thomasas go on sale for a dollar a package evry so often at meijer,
> regular are about three dollars, when we had freezer space we stocked up as
> we both love english muffins, Lee
> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 9/28/2011 2:15 PM, George Shirley wrote:
>>> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
>>> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
>>> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
>>> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
>>> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
>>> house on the main drag in our town.
>>
>>
>> I just Googled and we have an Orowheat outlet about 6 miles away.
>> Good thought. Their bread is not bad at all and I love their English
>> muffins.
>>
>> Funny, when they first started making them they cost much less than
>> Thomas's. Now the latter is on sale most of the time for 2/$5 and
>> the Orowheat are $3.49 a pkg. Probably worth the trip if I have freezer
>> space.
>>
>> gloria p

Hmmm...

A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?

Why not just buy a fifty pound container of wheat berries? Wheat berries
in containers will last for YEARS. Get a grinder and over time it will pay
for itself and Really have some of the best tasting bread ever at a lower
cost than those stale past due date bread discount stores.

--
Nad

the thing i appreciate about this group is that the majority of the regular
participants are supportive of other participants, regardless of where on
the preserving bell curve they land, from beginner, to expert, jams, breads,
bulk cooking all count, and are all lauded as valid to saving money,
perfecting a craft and generally eating better,

Lee,
"Nad" > wrote in message
...
> "Storrmmee" > wrote:
>> our thomasas go on sale for a dollar a package evry so often at meijer,
>> regular are about three dollars, when we had freezer space we stocked up
>> as
>> we both love english muffins, Lee
>> "gloria.p" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 9/28/2011 2:15 PM, George Shirley wrote:
>>>> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
>>>> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's
>>>> Own
>>>> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
>>>> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm
>>>> buying
>>>> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
>>>> house on the main drag in our town.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just Googled and we have an Orowheat outlet about 6 miles away.
>>> Good thought. Their bread is not bad at all and I love their English
>>> muffins.
>>>
>>> Funny, when they first started making them they cost much less than
>>> Thomas's. Now the latter is on sale most of the time for 2/$5 and
>>> the Orowheat are $3.49 a pkg. Probably worth the trip if I have freezer
>>> space.
>>>
>>> gloria p
>
> Hmmm...
>
> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>
> Why not just buy a fifty pound container of wheat berries? Wheat berries
> in containers will last for YEARS. Get a grinder and over time it will pay
> for itself and Really have some of the best tasting bread ever at a lower
> cost than those stale past due date bread discount stores.
>
> --
> Nad

On 9/29/2011 5:38 AM, Nad wrote:

> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>

I do make a couple of kinds of bread on occasion but haven't gotten into
making sandwich bread regularly. Convenience is the word.

> Why not just buy a fifty pound container of wheat berries? Wheat berries
> in containers will last for YEARS. Get a grinder and over time it will pay
> for itself and Really have some of the best tasting bread ever at a lower
> cost than those stale past due date bread discount stores.
>

Why not just plow up your back yard and grown your own wheat? As Lee
said, there's a continuum and we all find our own place on the curve.

gloria p

"gloria.p" > wrote:
>
> Why not just plow up your back yard and grown your own wheat? As Lee
> said, there's a continuum and we all find our own place on the curve.
>
> gloria p

Wheat does not grow very well in my state or my soil is not good enough for
wheat. Especially the varieties that make great bread. I have tried, but
the varieties of wheat that does grow well here is ok for animal feed. The
local grain store does sell human food grade wheat from different areas of
the country. The wheat berries are sold in fifty pound containers. It cost
less to grind your own flour and for convenience I use an Automatic Bread
Machine. I make few trips to the market and I save on gas.

I have a small personal hobby farm of twenty acres. Fresh eggs from the hen
house, milk from my own dairy cow and huge vegetable garden. This is why I
have an interest in food preserving. This is my place on the curve.

--
Nad

On 9/29/2011 6:38 AM, Nad wrote:
> > wrote:
>> our thomasas go on sale for a dollar a package evry so often at meijer,
>> regular are about three dollars, when we had freezer space we stocked up as
>> we both love english muffins, Lee
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 9/28/2011 2:15 PM, George Shirley wrote:
>>>> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39 a
>>>> loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's Own
>>>> Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a bonus.
>>>> That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where I'm buying
>>>> bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks from the
>>>> house on the main drag in our town.
>>>
>>>
>>> I just Googled and we have an Orowheat outlet about 6 miles away.
>>> Good thought. Their bread is not bad at all and I love their English
>>> muffins.
>>>
>>> Funny, when they first started making them they cost much less than
>>> Thomas's. Now the latter is on sale most of the time for 2/$5 and
>>> the Orowheat are $3.49 a pkg. Probably worth the trip if I have freezer
>>> space.
>>>
>>> gloria p
>
> Hmmm...
>
> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>
> Why not just buy a fifty pound container of wheat berries? Wheat berries
> in containers will last for YEARS. Get a grinder and over time it will pay
> for itself and Really have some of the best tasting bread ever at a lower
> cost than those stale past due date bread discount stores.
>
And I do make my own bread on occasion. There are more important things
to do around here than to continuously make bread. Grind my own wheat,
nope, see previous sentence. I preserve what I want to eat that we like
and the descendants like. Bread is to cheap to spend time making for the
little bit that we eat. To each his own.

Oh yeah, freezing things you buy is also food preserving. Like meat,
veggies, bread, desserts etc.

On 9/29/2011 2:39 PM, Nad wrote:
> > wrote:
>>
>> Why not just plow up your back yard and grown your own wheat? As Lee
>> said, there's a continuum and we all find our own place on the curve.
>>
>> gloria p
>
> Wheat does not grow very well in my state or my soil is not good enough for
> wheat. Especially the varieties that make great bread. I have tried, but
> the varieties of wheat that does grow well here is ok for animal feed. The
> local grain store does sell human food grade wheat from different areas of
> the country. The wheat berries are sold in fifty pound containers. It cost
> less to grind your own flour and for convenience I use an Automatic Bread
> Machine. I make few trips to the market and I save on gas.
>
> I have a small personal hobby farm of twenty acres. Fresh eggs from the hen
> house, milk from my own dairy cow and huge vegetable garden. This is why I
> have an interest in food preserving. This is my place on the curve.
>
Our hobby farm is 75 feet wide and 150 feet long, I think many of the
folks on this newsgroup have even smaller places. We once lived for
years on ten acres and had another ten acres to grow things on. At age
72 that ain't gonna happen again. Each of us should enjoy their own
place on the curve as others have said.

On 9/28/2011 6:42 PM, zxcvbob wrote:
> George Shirley wrote:
>> Went to the used bread store this morning, same bread that was #$3.39
>> a loaf at Kroger was $1.39 a loaf there. Bought two loaves of Nature's
>> Own Honey Seven Grain and then they gave me two more loaves as a
>> bonus. That's cut the price down to 69.5 cents per loaf. Guess where
>> I'm buying bread from now on and the place is only about three blocks
>> from the house on the main drag in our town.
>
>
> The Hostess thrift store here charges almost full price for used bread.
> They used to have good deals before Interstate Bakeries went bankrupt in
> 2004. When they came back they jacked the prices way up at the outlet
> stores. I can get better fresh bread cheaper at Cub Foods and Aldi.
> (both are cheaper than Walmart except for the really awful squishy white
> bread.)
>
> I can bake a 2 pound loaf of sourdough bread for just a few cents. At
> least last time I bought a 25# bag of flour at Sam's it didn't cost
> hardly anything -- but that was over a year ago.
>
> -Bob
See what the price is now Bob. Seems fuel prices and inflation have
driven most food stuffs up about 20 to 30 percent. Even rice, which is
grown here, has nearly doubled in price in the last year. Beef is
selling at record prices, mostly due to the drought in
Texas. So many cattle were sold to avoid drought deaths that the price
went down for a bit but is really up now. Other parts of the US are
either suffering drought or excessive rainfall, all of that affects the
price of the food we buy. The food banks here are seeing more people
showing up looking for food. Welfare rolls are expanding. We are seeing
a rise in employment rates though. We have a new, very large casino
coming on line for construction and one of the local petrochem plants is
getting ready to build a multi-billion dollar expansion. That will help
our local economy and the state's too.

George Shirley > wrote:

> Our hobby farm is 75 feet wide and 150 feet long, I think many of the
> folks on this newsgroup have even smaller places. We once lived for years
> on ten acres and had another ten acres to grow things on. At age 72 that
> ain't gonna happen again. Each of us should enjoy their own place on the
> curve as others have said.

I often wonder... I was born and raised in the city and did not like the
big city and always wanted to live in the country. When I did some teaching
in the local schools I found that many kids born and raised in the country
wanted to move and live in the big city.

Sounds like we swapped lives. I enjoy the country life... I hope you enjoy
yours

--
Nad

On 09/29/2011 08:22 AM, gloria.p wrote:
> On 9/29/2011 5:38 AM, Nad wrote:
>
>> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
>> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>>
>
> I do make a couple of kinds of bread on occasion but haven't gotten into
> making sandwich bread regularly. Convenience is the word.

We make most of our own bread, and I'm honestly not criticizing anyone
who doesn't, but I wanted to say that once you get into the routine of
doing it, it's not every inconvenient, especially if you use tools to
help with the one labor-intensive part, the kneading.

Serene
--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

Serene Vannoy > wrote:
> On 09/29/2011 08:22 AM, gloria.p wrote:
>> On 9/29/2011 5:38 AM, Nad wrote:
>>
>>> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
>>> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>>>
>>
>> I do make a couple of kinds of bread on occasion but haven't gotten into
>> making sandwich bread regularly. Convenience is the word.
>
> We make most of our own bread, and I'm honestly not criticizing anyone
> who doesn't, but I wanted to say that once you get into the routine of
> doing it, it's not every inconvenient, especially if you use tools to
> help with the one labor-intensive part, the kneading.
>
> Serene

I take it you also have one of those "tools" called the Automatic Bread
Machine that does most if not all of the work?

--
Nad

On 10/01/2011 08:46 AM, Nad wrote:
> Serene > wrote:
>> On 09/29/2011 08:22 AM, gloria.p wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2011 5:38 AM, Nad wrote:
>>>
>>>> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
>>>> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I do make a couple of kinds of bread on occasion but haven't gotten into
>>> making sandwich bread regularly. Convenience is the word.
>>
>> We make most of our own bread, and I'm honestly not criticizing anyone
>> who doesn't, but I wanted to say that once you get into the routine of
>> doing it, it's not every inconvenient, especially if you use tools to
>> help with the one labor-intensive part, the kneading.
>>
>> Serene
>
> I take it you also have one of those "tools" called the Automatic Bread
> Machine that does most if not all of the work?

Most (since we don't bake it in the machine; we prefer the texture of
oven-baked bread), yes. We also have a good stand mixer and some
excellent no-knead bread recipes.

Don't be too quick to criticize people who aren't as "pure" as you are;
it make you look like an ass, and it doesn't encourage people to emulate
you, but to avoid you.

Serene

--
http://www.momfoodproject.com

Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>
> Don't be too quick to criticize people who aren't as "pure" as you are;
> it make you look like an ass, and it doesn't encourage people to emulate
> you, but to avoid you.
>
> Serene

People that cannot take criticism or defend their position with reasoning
are weak minded people. Weak minded people often use profanity instead of
reasoning to express their views... Example: "You are <- enter body part ->
if you think like this.

Are you that weak minded? Those that use profanity are to be emulated like
yourself are the "Good" people? I will let you have the last word

--
Nad

this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer food
processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big mixer,
but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get ready
to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what we
want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
cook whilst the rest is being prepared.

what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you could
only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to you
for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee
"Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/01/2011 08:46 AM, Nad wrote:
>> Serene > wrote:
>>> On 09/29/2011 08:22 AM, gloria.p wrote:
>>>> On 9/29/2011 5:38 AM, Nad wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A food preserving forum talking about "buying" and freezing bread?
>>>>> Do we not make our own bread? But make our own Jams and Juices?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I do make a couple of kinds of bread on occasion but haven't gotten
>>>> into
>>>> making sandwich bread regularly. Convenience is the word.
>>>
>>> We make most of our own bread, and I'm honestly not criticizing anyone
>>> who doesn't, but I wanted to say that once you get into the routine of
>>> doing it, it's not every inconvenient, especially if you use tools to
>>> help with the one labor-intensive part, the kneading.
>>>
>>> Serene
>>
>> I take it you also have one of those "tools" called the Automatic Bread
>> Machine that does most if not all of the work?
>
> Most (since we don't bake it in the machine; we prefer the texture of
> oven-baked bread), yes. We also have a good stand mixer and some excellent
> no-knead bread recipes.
>
> Don't be too quick to criticize people who aren't as "pure" as you are; it
> make you look like an ass, and it doesn't encourage people to emulate you,
> but to avoid you.
>
> Serene
>
> --
> http://www.momfoodproject.com

"Storrmmee" > wrote:
> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer food
> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big mixer,
> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get ready
> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what we
> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>
> what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you could
> only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to you
> for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee

My problem with bread making at home is that the long cold winters makes it
difficult for the dough too rise. I also prefer the house temperature to be
no more than 70F and dough rises poorly at that temp. A bread machine has
heating elements in for making dough for roll ands pizzas. I will make
sourdough breads during the summer in which house temperature is ideal for
sourdoughs. I also freeze the doughs for pizzas and for rolls.

I cannot justify owning a large stand mixer, because I will still have to
let the dough rise somewhere it is warm. I do own a nice food processor
with a dough blade and it does a good job for the smaller amounts of dough
during the summer and for candy making. I also use the dough blade to make
corn tortillas. For general mixing, making cookies and other things, I find
the hand mixer works just fine.

My food processor only has a 12 cup capacity which is fine for me. If you
plan on making large amounts of breads a stand mixer may be a very useful.

Excluding the cost of the ABM, mine cost around $150. It cost less than
fifty cents to make a loaf of basic sandwich bread. I also use the bread
machine more often than the food processor or hand mixer. The cleanup with
the bread machine as almost none existent. The food processor has several
parts to clean

But this discussion was well covered the the Cooking newsgroup last week.

--
Nad

On 10/01/2011 10:07 AM, Nad wrote:
> Serene > wrote:
>>
>> Don't be too quick to criticize people who aren't as "pure" as you are;
>> it make you look like an ass, and it doesn't encourage people to emulate
>> you, but to avoid you.
>>
>> Serene
>
> People that cannot take criticism or defend their position with reasoning
> are weak minded people. Weak minded people often use profanity instead of
> reasoning to express their views... Example: "You are<- enter body part ->
> if you think like this.
>
> Are you that weak minded?

Yes, that's exactly it. I'm weak-minded. You should probably avoid me;
you might get dumber just by knowing me.

Serene
http://www.momfoodproject.com

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> wrote:

>"Storrmmee" > wrote:
>> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
>> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer food
>> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big mixer,
>> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
>> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
>> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get ready
>> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what we
>> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
>> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>>
>> what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you could
>> only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to you
>> for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee
>
>My problem with bread making at home is that the long cold winters makes it
>difficult for the dough too rise. I also prefer the house temperature to be
>no more than 70F and dough rises poorly at that temp.

No it doesn't. Bread rises more slowly, but rise it does, and the
flavor that develops during that longer rise makes it better tasting,
too.

Try putting your bread doughs into the refrigerator overnight and
bake them in the morning.


>A bread machine has
>heating elements in for making dough for roll ands pizzas. I will make
>sourdough breads during the summer in which house temperature is ideal for
>sourdoughs. I also freeze the doughs for pizzas and for rolls.

Summer kitchen temps are exactly what you do not want for sourdough.
>
>I cannot justify owning a large stand mixer, because I will still have to
>let the dough rise somewhere it is warm.


Untrue. It'll rise in a cool kitchen and give you better results, to
boot.

If you do like a warm, fast rise, though, put the dough into an oven
with the light on, or place it in a closed microwave with a container
of hot water.

This ain't rocket science. I assure you that bakery proofers are not a
warm environment, either.

Boron

lol, Lee
"Serene Vannoy" > wrote in message
...
> On 10/01/2011 10:07 AM, Nad wrote:
>> Serene > wrote:
>>>
>>> Don't be too quick to criticize people who aren't as "pure" as you are;
>>> it make you look like an ass, and it doesn't encourage people to emulate
>>> you, but to avoid you.
>>>
>>> Serene
>>
>> People that cannot take criticism or defend their position with reasoning
>> are weak minded people. Weak minded people often use profanity instead of
>> reasoning to express their views... Example: "You are<- enter body
>> part ->
>> if you think like this.
>>
>> Are you that weak minded?
>
> Yes, that's exactly it. I'm weak-minded. You should probably avoid me; you
> might get dumber just by knowing me.
>
> Serene
> http://www.momfoodproject.com

boron, something i just noticed recently here at the hotel, when dh leaves
the light on underneath the nuker that is positioned above the stove, the
nuker stays what to me feels almost perfect for bread purposes... Lee
"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> > wrote:
>
>>"Storrmmee" > wrote:
>>> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
>>> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer
>>> food
>>> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big
>>> mixer,
>>> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
>>> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
>>> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get
>>> ready
>>> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just
>>> what we
>>> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread
>>> to
>>> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>>>
>>> what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you
>>> could
>>> only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to
>>> you
>>> for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee
>>
>>My problem with bread making at home is that the long cold winters makes
>>it
>>difficult for the dough too rise. I also prefer the house temperature to
>>be
>>no more than 70F and dough rises poorly at that temp.
>
> No it doesn't. Bread rises more slowly, but rise it does, and the
> flavor that develops during that longer rise makes it better tasting,
> too.
>
> Try putting your bread doughs into the refrigerator overnight and
> bake them in the morning.
>
>
>>A bread machine has
>>heating elements in for making dough for roll ands pizzas. I will make
>>sourdough breads during the summer in which house temperature is ideal for
>>sourdoughs. I also freeze the doughs for pizzas and for rolls.
>
> Summer kitchen temps are exactly what you do not want for sourdough.
>>
>>I cannot justify owning a large stand mixer, because I will still have to
>>let the dough rise somewhere it is warm.
>
>
> Untrue. It'll rise in a cool kitchen and give you better results, to
> boot.
>
> If you do like a warm, fast rise, though, put the dough into an oven
> with the light on, or place it in a closed microwave with a container
> of hot water.
>
> This ain't rocket science. I assure you that bakery proofers are not a
> warm environment, either.
>
> Boron
>
>
>

Boron Elgar > wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Nad

>> My problem with bread making at home is that the long cold winters makes it
>> difficult for the dough too rise. I also prefer the house temperature to be
>> no more than 70F and dough rises poorly at that temp.

> No it doesn't. Bread rises more slowly, but rise it does, and the
> flavor that develops during that longer rise makes it better tasting,
> too.
>
> Try putting your bread doughs into the refrigerator overnight and
> bake them in the morning.

I will try that this winter when life slows down a bit. But that means I
must do a little meal planning in advanced.

>> A bread machine has
>> heating elements in for making dough for roll ands pizzas. I will make
>> sourdough breads during the summer in which house temperature is ideal for
>> sourdoughs. I also freeze the doughs for pizzas and for rolls.
>
> Summer kitchen temps are exactly what you do not want for sourdough.

My summer temps average in the seventies. The starters just seems not to
bubble up in the winter. The starters form really well in the summer. Using
Peter Reinharts books as a guide. I have no wish in my old age to back to
school, so I try and learn by reading books and asking questions on the
net.

> If you do like a warm, fast rise, though, put the dough into an oven
> with the light on, or place it in a closed microwave with a container
> of hot water.

The light does not work well. What has worked in the past is turn on the
oven for just two minutes and wait for an hour or two. I should say during
winter, I keep the daytime home temp at 70F. I let the nighttime temp drop
down to 58F. I bundle up at night, I sleep better with a warm body and a
cool head. I believe the Night temps in the kitchen are to low for
sourdoughs.

At what temperatures are ideal to create the starters?

> This ain't rocket science.

From reading Shirley O Corriher books called CookWise and BakeWise, I am
not so sure

--
Nad

On 10/1/2011 6:00 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer food
> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big mixer,
> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get ready
> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what we
> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>
> what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you could
> only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to you
> for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee

I have a Cuisinart processor but never use it for dough of any kind.
Also have a Kitchen Aid stand mixer, use it occasionally for cookie,
biscuit, or other light bread making. For breads I always use my Regal
automatic bread maker, even if I'm going to bake them in the oven versus
the ABM. It is so easy, does the mixing, kneading, etc. and then I can
remove the dough and do what I want with it. Use it a lot to mix whole
wheat rolls at holiday time, make a batch, form, bake in the oven.
Meanwhile another batch is making and then will also go in the oven. Did
I mention we have a large extended family? There's nineteen of us when
we all get together. Takes a lot of food to feed our large
grandchildren, the three eldest including the eldest granddaughter are
all around six feet tall and weigh over 200 lbs. The littles are easy to
feed, that would be the two youngest grands and the five great grands,
plus us two old folks don't eat that much anymore. I've watched two
turkeys and a 20 lb ham disappear at a single holiday meal.

All three machines have a place in our kitchen, the food processor on
the counter, the ABM in the walk-in pantry, and the KA mixer just under
the cabinet. All easy to get to.

If I could have only one of the three, it would the KA mixer, the big
one, with all the attachments. Mine is smaller than that and I only
purchased the meat grinder and the sausage stuffer attachments for it.
The one I have will mix and knead dough perfectly well but I prefer the
ABM because I can go on to do other things, like take a nap, while a
perfect loaf of bread is made, takes about 3.5 hours for whole wheat.
Hope this helps.

George

On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 19:42:54 -0500, "Storrmmee"
> wrote:

>boron, something i just noticed recently here at the hotel, when dh leaves
>the light on underneath the nuker that is positioned above the stove, the
>nuker stays what to me feels almost perfect for bread purposes... Lee
>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message


It'd be great for a very cold kitchen. Microwaves also work well when
the kitchen it too warm to proof dough. I put in a bowl of ice water
with the dough.

Boron

Storrmmee wrote:
> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer food
> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big mixer,
> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get ready
> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what we
> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>

Check the Goodwill Store or the Salvation Army for bread machines.
That's where I bought mine (I think it's a Hitachi) for $5. They had
lots of them.

Have a big Kitchenaid stand mixer, but haven't used it much since I got
a KA 5-speed portable mixer. The portable won't handle bread dough, but
it does cookie dough just fine.

A full-sized food processor is handy, but you can get by pretty well
with a couple of good knives and a cutting board.

So back to your question, go with the ABM but look for a used one.

-Bob

yes i am still in the considering phase, part is spending less, part is
storage, but the point you bring up, ease of use, must also be considered,
Lee
"George Shirley" > wrote in message
.com...
> On 10/1/2011 6:00 PM, Storrmmee wrote:
>> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
>> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer
>> food
>> processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big
>> mixer,
>> but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor for the
>> bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when we get
>> back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to get
>> ready
>> to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook just what
>> we
>> want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow the bread to
>> cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>>
>> what say all of you who have experience with all three items, if you
>> could
>> only buy one of the three, which one and why? which would help most to
>> you
>> for bulk cooking and preserving? Lee
>
> I have a Cuisinart processor but never use it for dough of any kind. Also
> have a Kitchen Aid stand mixer, use it occasionally for cookie, biscuit,
> or other light bread making. For breads I always use my Regal automatic
> bread maker, even if I'm going to bake them in the oven versus the ABM. It
> is so easy, does the mixing, kneading, etc. and then I can remove the
> dough and do what I want with it. Use it a lot to mix whole wheat rolls at
> holiday time, make a batch, form, bake in the oven. Meanwhile another
> batch is making and then will also go in the oven. Did I mention we have a
> large extended family? There's nineteen of us when we all get together.
> Takes a lot of food to feed our large grandchildren, the three eldest
> including the eldest granddaughter are all around six feet tall and weigh
> over 200 lbs. The littles are easy to feed, that would be the two youngest
> grands and the five great grands, plus us two old folks don't eat that
> much anymore. I've watched two turkeys and a 20 lb ham disappear at a
> single holiday meal.
>
> All three machines have a place in our kitchen, the food processor on the
> counter, the ABM in the walk-in pantry, and the KA mixer just under the
> cabinet. All easy to get to.
>
> If I could have only one of the three, it would the KA mixer, the big one,
> with all the attachments. Mine is smaller than that and I only purchased
> the meat grinder and the sausage stuffer attachments for it. The one I
> have will mix and knead dough perfectly well but I prefer the ABM because
> I can go on to do other things, like take a nap, while a perfect loaf of
> bread is made, takes about 3.5 hours for whole wheat. Hope this helps.
>
> George

it is coolish in here because i keep the windows open as much as possible,
and i have noted the ice water tip, thanks, Lee
"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 19:42:54 -0500, "Storrmmee"
> > wrote:
>
>>boron, something i just noticed recently here at the hotel, when dh leaves
>>the light on underneath the nuker that is positioned above the stove, the
>>nuker stays what to me feels almost perfect for bread purposes... Lee
>>"Boron Elgar" > wrote in message
>
>
> It'd be great for a very cold kitchen. Microwaves also work well when
> the kitchen it too warm to proof dough. I put in a bowl of ice water
> with the dough.
>
> Boron
>
>
>

thanks, the only reason i am considering the f/p is that i am having trouble
with my hands, most days fine, but some days i am no help to the dh in
cutting/dicing, joints are getting steadily worse and that is a big part of
my cooking contributions, i did the prep work for a lot of things, Lee
"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Storrmmee wrote:
>> this is something i am considering atm, made good use of the abm, always
>> just used a hand mixer but am reading about the benifits of the nicer
>> food processors. now since i rarely make cakes or things that need a big
>> mixer, but like the idea of using the bigger mixer or a food processor
>> for the bread kneading chores i am curious to hear other's opinions, when
>> we get back into the house i would like to make several kinds of rolls to
>> get ready to bake and then freeze them. doing this will allow us to cook
>> just what we want for that meal, which once we decide the meal will allow
>> the bread to cook whilst the rest is being prepared.
>>
>
> Check the Goodwill Store or the Salvation Army for bread machines. That's
> where I bought mine (I think it's a Hitachi) for $5. They had lots of
> them.
>
> Have a big Kitchenaid stand mixer, but haven't used it much since I got a
> KA 5-speed portable mixer. The portable won't handle bread dough, but it
> does cookie dough just fine.
>
> A full-sized food processor is handy, but you can get by pretty well with
> a couple of good knives and a cutting board.
>
> So back to your question, go with the ABM but look for a used one.
>
> -Bob

"Storrmmee" > wrote:
> thanks, the only reason i am considering the f/p is that i am having trouble
> with my hands, most days fine, but some days i am no help to the dh in
> cutting/dicing, joints are getting steadily worse and that is a big part of
> my cooking contributions, i did the prep work for a lot of things, Lee
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message

The FP is not just a chopping and dicing these days. I use the egg whipping
blade and the dough blade more than anything. Shredding blades are next.
For cutting small amount I prefer the knife. The cutting blades I use more
for making dips and spreads.

I have a KA 12 Cup processor. I came with three bowls, two cutting blades,
three shredding blades, dough blade, egg whip and a juice reamer. I have
yet to find a use for the juice reamer.

The model I have is http://alturl.com/eyh7v

The drawback is it can leak for liquids because the lids are not seal
tight. But that is why I have a blender. For all other things it works
fine.

--
Nad

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 01:34:00 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar > wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Oct 2011 23:45:35 +0000 (UTC), Nad
>
>>> My problem with bread making at home is that the long cold winters makes it
>>> difficult for the dough too rise. I also prefer the house temperature to be
>>> no more than 70F and dough rises poorly at that temp.
>
>> No it doesn't. Bread rises more slowly, but rise it does, and the
>> flavor that develops during that longer rise makes it better tasting,
>> too.
>>
>> Try putting your bread doughs into the refrigerator overnight and
>> bake them in the morning.
>
>I will try that this winter when life slows down a bit. But that means I
>must do a little meal planning in advanced.
>
>>> A bread machine has
>>> heating elements in for making dough for roll ands pizzas. I will make
>>> sourdough breads during the summer in which house temperature is ideal for
>>> sourdoughs. I also freeze the doughs for pizzas and for rolls.
>>
>> Summer kitchen temps are exactly what you do not want for sourdough.
>
>My summer temps average in the seventies. The starters just seems not to
>bubble up in the winter. The starters form really well in the summer. Using
>Peter Reinharts books as a guide. I have no wish in my old age to back to
>school, so I try and learn by reading books and asking questions on the
>net.
>
>> If you do like a warm, fast rise, though, put the dough into an oven
>> with the light on, or place it in a closed microwave with a container
>> of hot water.
>
>The light does not work well. What has worked in the past is turn on the
>oven for just two minutes and wait for an hour or two. I should say during
>winter, I keep the daytime home temp at 70F. I let the nighttime temp drop
>down to 58F. I bundle up at night, I sleep better with a warm body and a
>cool head. I believe the Night temps in the kitchen are to low for
>sourdoughs.
>
>At what temperatures are ideal to create the starters?

Best way to begin a starter is to leave it out on the counter in
moderate temps (65F-75F) for the first week or so.

Most miserly way to create one is to use 2tbs of rye, & an equal
amount of water. 12 hrs later, dump it, leaving the dregs in the
container and refresh it with the 2-2. Continue this way for a week,
then switch to refreshing once a day for 1 week. After that, it should
be stable enough so that you can increase the refreshment amount to
what you need for a test bake.

Once the starter is well established, you can shift it to all white if
you like, or break it into two starters, one of rye and one of white,
and they toss 'em in the fridge. I refresh once a week, sometimes more
often if I am baking a lot, sometimes less often if I am not, or if I
am away.

>> This ain't rocket science.
>
>From reading Shirley O Corriher books called CookWise and BakeWise, I am
>not so sure

No, honestly. Sourdough starters and bread baking are best handled
simply, with no fuss, no bother. No pineapple juice, no grapes,
nothing weird. Just flour and water...and patience for the starters,
add some salt into the dough for baking and you're on your way.

If you want seed starter, go to the link below, and benefit from the
generosity of volunteers who will help you.

http://carlsfriends.net/source.html


I am sad that so many bread books these days only provide the One True
Path to making bread and that each path involves learning the that
particular baker's religion to get to a decent loaf. T'aint so...

Boron

Boron Elgar > wrote:

> I am sad that so many bread books these days only provide the One True
> Path to making bread and that each path involves learning the that
> particular baker's religion to get to a decent loaf. T'aint so...
>
> Boron

Sounds like your not fan of Peter Reinhart's Books on bread making. I use
pineapple juice and feed the starter daily with more flower and so on. I am
open to different methods. I have only one book specifically on bread
making. Do you have any other authors that may be of interest?

I saved your instructions for making a starter. Books are an addiction, I
have around two thousand books. However, I tend to loose single sheet
recipes over time, I am not that organized or disciplined.

Thanks for the advice

--
Nad

On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> wrote:

>Boron Elgar > wrote:
>
>> I am sad that so many bread books these days only provide the One True
>> Path to making bread and that each path involves learning the that
>> particular baker's religion to get to a decent loaf. T'aint so...
>>
>> Boron
>
>Sounds like your not fan of Peter Reinhart's Books on bread making. I use
>pineapple juice and feed the starter daily with more flower and so on. I am
>open to different methods. I have only one book specifically on bread
>making. Do you have any other authors that may be of interest?
>
>I saved your instructions for making a starter. Books are an addiction, I
>have around two thousand books. However, I tend to loose single sheet
>recipes over time, I am not that organized or disciplined.
>
>Thanks for the advice


I have all of Reinhart's books, actually. I have all the classic,
popular and recent bread books. I started collecting with Beard on
Bread decades ago and have made it all the way to Tartine.

It is reading all these books that I have learned that there are 90
million ways to make good bread (and that cookbook editing is a lost
art). No one method is perfect for all types of bread. In fact no one
method is perfect for even one type of bread.

Many bread methodologies spelled out in these books require all sorts
of extra steps, temperature checks, insistence on one brand/type
flour or yeast or specially filtered water or type of bowl or spoon or
mixer or baking vessel.

Meh.

Pare it down, keep it simple (even for fancy breads). Use a preferment
to deepen flavor, rather than relying on tons of yeast to poof up your
dough quickly. Take your time. This doesn't mean spend a lot of time
in dough prep, just take a few minutes to do that, then put the dough
away (in a cool place) and let the miracle happen. That is what takes
patience.

Begin with simple breads - flour, water, alt, yeast or leavening. Damn
cheap ingredients. Perfect a loaf, then change it into something else.

Pray you have a decent oven. Invest in a good stone, or use unglazed
tiles. Experiment with some whole grains and different flours. Learn
to understand the dough by its touch and hydration (the lower the
hydration, the finer the crumb, usually, the higher the hydration, the
more "holey" the bread), learn to shape your loaves well so they do
not explode in the oven, try adding some fats for fun, to affect the
texture, then fly with the eagles.

It takes time. Not everyone feels it is worth it. Some just do not
want to bother with bread, being quite happy with what is available at
stores. That is ok. Some folks roast their own coffee, smoke their own
meats, make their own jams and jellies. Each of us has one or more
aspects of food prep that are really appealing and that we want to
master. Decide if you want to do that with bread. You may not want to
bother. I find it relaxing and rewarding, but you may not.

Lots of pix up here, though I have almost stopped posting new ones.
Just look past the family photos and seek the breads. If you have
specific questions about any of them, let me know. Just keep in mind
that I usually do not use recipes, so am better talking technique than
ingredient ratios.

Boron

On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 09:42:03 -0400, Boron Elgar
> wrote:

>On Sun, 2 Oct 2011 13:08:18 +0000 (UTC), Nad
> wrote:
>
>>Boron Elgar > wrote:
>>

>Lots of pix up here, though I have almost stopped posting new ones.
>Just look past the family photos and seek the breads. If you have
>specific questions about any of them, let me know. Just keep in mind
>that I usually do not use recipes, so am better talking technique than
>ingredient ratios.
>
>Boron

It helps if I actually post the link...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25648800@N04/sets/

Nad wrote:
> Boron Elgar > wrote:
>
>> I am sad that so many bread books these days only provide the One True
>> Path to making bread and that each path involves learning the that
>> particular baker's religion to get to a decent loaf. T'aint so...
>>
>> Boron
>
> Sounds like your not fan of Peter Reinhart's Books on bread making. I use
> pineapple juice and feed the starter daily with more flower and so on. I am
> open to different methods. I have only one book specifically on bread
> making. Do you have any other authors that may be of interest?
>
> I saved your instructions for making a starter. Books are an addiction, I
> have around two thousand books. However, I tend to loose single sheet
> recipes over time, I am not that organized or disciplined.
>
> Thanks for the advice
>


I posted my recipe (such as it is) for sourdough bread recently in
rec.food.sourdough. It's just flour, water, and salt (unless you count
greasing the pan.) The starter is just flour and water. It's
exceedingly easy; the only hard part is I can't predict how long the
rise will take, so I have to work around that.

It's a work-in-progress, but the results are good enough I'm not really
motivated to change it much.

-Bob