I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:

"Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."


Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!

I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.

gloria p

On 8/5/2012 2:06 PM, gloria p wrote:>
(snip)
> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.

This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??

Jim...in New Mexico

On 8/5/2012 3:34 PM, Jim Macey wrote:
> On 8/5/2012 2:06 PM, gloria p wrote:>
> (snip)
>> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
>> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.
>
> This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
> require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
> bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
> leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??
>
> Jim...in New Mexico
>
And the answers to all your questions are probably right he
http://nchfp.uga.edu/

The tables at the site will tell you exactly how long to BWB at
different altitudes, also found in practically every home food
preserving book out there.

Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.

Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.

On Sun, 05 Aug 2012 14:06:21 -0600, gloria p >
wrote:

>
>
>I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
>leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:
>
>"Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
>after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."
>
>
>Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
>kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
>and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
>tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!
>
>I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
>almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.
>
>gloria p


I'm not sure what the reason for it is but I know that when I turn off
the burner and remove the lid (an alternate method) and let it sit for
5 or so minutes, many of my jams and pickles have sealed and that I
get a much better record of my tomatoes and beans sealing than when I
just take them out at the prescribed time.

I just took 7 quarts of tomatoes out of the boiling water bath and
they all sealed by the time I had them all out of the water. Next
batch just went into the water. That takes care of the tomatoes that
we have picked except for a few that I picked this morning and a
basket full of cherry tomatoes. The cherries will be made into juice
tomorrow. I'm out of steam now.
--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral,
48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

gloria p wrote:
>
> I just finished a double batch of bread and butter pickles and, while
> leafing through the Ball canning book, noted that mot recipes say:
>
> "Process in boiling water bath xx minutes, remove from heat, and
> after 5 minutes remove jars from kettle."
>
>
> Why the extra 5 minutes? In that short time, the temperature of the
> kettle water doesn't cool down enough to remove the threat of burns
> and the temperature of the jars means you still have to use some kind of
> tongs or lifter to remove them from the kettle. Those things are HOT!

i would guess that it involves the boiling point
and that perhaps there is some chance of a residual
gurgle of hot water that is best to avoid. by waiting
a few minutes it gives the chance to let that type
of problem to dissipate.


> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.


songbird

Jim Macey wrote:
> gloria p wrote:>
> (snip)
>> I always BWB process for an extra 10 minutes or so because we are at
>> almost 5800 ft. in altitude and water boils here at ~202 deg. F.
>
> This brings up a question: what bugs/bacteria are we chasing after that
> require 212deg. for 10 mins??? I was under the impression that most
> bacteria burst their cell walls at around 106deg. and the protoplasm
> leaks out, producing death of the cell. Anybody know??
>
> Jim...in New Mexico

botulism.

many bacteria can survive well past 106F.


songbird

In article > ,
George Shirley > wrote:
( others' snipped)

> Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
> expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
> reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
> minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
> can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.

The ONLY mentions I've ever seen for pasteurization are for some
pickles, George. Not all pickle recipes provide the pasteurization
option ‹ it requires more temperature control than I'll bet most of us
can manage. You're not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff, are
you?
>
> Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
> how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.
--
Barb,
http://www.barbschaller.com, as of June 6, 2012

On 8/10/2012 7:31 AM, Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article > ,
> George Shirley > wrote:
> ( others' snipped)
>
>> Going to the source of information is always better than guessing or
>> expecting someone else to provide you the information. There are many
>> reasons for processing acidic foods in a boiling water bath for many
>> minutes, not all are about bacterium but all are about food safety. You
>> can also pasteurize your food at 180F for the required length of time.
>
> The ONLY mentions I've ever seen for pasteurization are for some
> pickles, George. Not all pickle recipes provide the pasteurization
> option ‹ it requires more temperature control than I'll bet most of us
> can manage. You're not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff, are
> you?
>>
>> Once more, check out the UGA site for actual food science reasons for
>> how we put up our food and for how long and at what temperatures.
You're right, I'm not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff. I do
know some folks who pasteurize pickles and some jams, I don't do
pasteurization myself. Primarily because you have to have the proper
equipment to absolutely maintain the 180F for the required time, even a
few degrees less will not be safe.

That's why USDA pushes for boiling water bath and experimentation at
various universities has established the proper timing. I wait until the
boiling water bath is at a rolling boil before I hit the timer. Knowing
my gas stove as well as I do I can then cut back the flame to maintain
the rolling boil and keep it going for the required time. I also use the
towel method, have done it for years now. I turn off the fire, take off
the lid, toss a tea towel over the top of the kettle, hit the timer for
five minutes. My understanding of that method is that allows the last
air bubbles in the jar, if any, to come out before the seal starts to
take effect. When I do that the jars start plinking as soon as they are
removed from the kettle, often before they are set on a folded towel to
cool for 24 hours. I'm happy with using the recommended methods as I
seldom have a jar go bad anymore. YMMV

George Shirley wrote:
....
> You're right, I'm not suggesting pasteurization for other stuff. I do
> know some folks who pasteurize pickles and some jams, I don't do
> pasteurization myself. Primarily because you have to have the proper
> equipment to absolutely maintain the 180F for the required time, even a
> few degrees less will not be safe.

the pedant in me can't resist, pasturization is not
sterilization (this is why milk will still go bad even
after being pasturized)...


songbird