Living in an apartment you might be interested in collecting wild fruits
and berries from which to make jam, jelly, and wine. I find plenty along
the banks of the river here in town where I go exploring on foot or by
bicycle. They ripen in August here but I find many plants in the spring by
looking for the blooms when there aren't so many leaves hiding everything.
I've also been planting the seeds leftover from making jelly to see if
that will increase the riverbank yield.

There is some information on making wild fruit and berry jelly on my
website (see below) under "Food".

You can buy jars and equipment at grage sales and rummage sales, and
new seals at the Dollar Store. The new seals I use are $1.50 at the
supermarket but only $1 at the Dollar Store.

For the amount of preserves and wine I make it's economical to buy sugar
in a 50 lb bag at a grocery wholesaler who sells to small indpendent
grocery stores. One bag does all my fermenting, preserving, baking, tea
and coffee making for a year at 2/3 the cost of buying in small bags from
the supermarket.

Lately I've paid 10 cents for used preserving jars (normally 25 cents
used) and maybe 5-10 cents per jar for the sugar in the jelly. The fruit
is free so it's quite inexpensive, although preserving is labour intensive
and therefore time consuming. For my own consupution I use old jam jars
for free. (Make sure there are no rust spost in th eunderside of the lid.)
For jelly to put away for future years or give away or I use preserving
jars with new seals.

I second the suggestion to cover up and wear an apron while boiling pots
of jelly. Also beware of staining from juices. They'll even stain some
painted surfaces if not wiped off before they dry.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

in article , George Shirley at
wrote on 1/12/05 10:31:

> Dieter Zakas wrote:
<snip>

>> George,
>>
>> I like your advice, as I don't like wasting food; to me, it's basically
>> throwing money away.
>>
>> While I'm not a senior citizen, my mother is, and she and my late father
>> were born during the Depression. I'm a 36 y/0 bachelor living in a
>> one-bedroom apartment, and I figured I'd like to grow personally. Mom never
>> really did gobs of canning, though she would make a plum jam when I was
>> younger. Later, she'd can the sour cherries harvested from the tree we'd
>> planted in the backyard, and we'd use that as a spread. (Why my father opted
>> for the sour cherry tree over one producing sweet cherries is beyond me.)
>>
>> As to canning figs, I, too, like fresh figs, and I'd like to get a small fig
>> tree from Gurney's that I can put in a tub and move indoors. Then, I can
>> snack on fresh figs and even make a spread out of them (homemade Fig
>> Newtons, anyone?). The same goes for other fruits, too.
>>
>> Now, as for friends and family opening something I'd made...they'd be great
>> gifts, not to mention a way of breaking the ice with someone new. Such
>> personalized gifts NEVER go out of style, and are appreciated much more,
>> because they're that much more special.
>>
>> Dieter Zakas
>>
>> P.S. Please keep the ideas and tips coming!
>>
> I don't know where you live so can't make tree recommendations. Down
> here the Brown Turkey is an old favorite. Mine is a scion from a
> neighbors tree and has been frozen back to the ground at least twice. In
> addition I have two kumquats, a plum, a pluot, a loquat, and a peach
> tree on half of our city lot. It's surprising what can be grown, even in
> pots. Look up Stark Brothers nursery on the web, they have lots of
> "patio" plants available and I've always had good luck with their trees,
> many of which are for colder climates.
>
> We're senior citizens on a limited income and we give home grown herbs
> and home made preserves as gifts all the time. The following year folks
> ask if we're giving those gifts again and tell us how much they enjoyed
> them. Plus our grandkids and greatgrandkids are always asking for sweet
> stuff. Makes it all worthwhile.
>
> George

I live in Warren County, New Jersey.

Today is a foggy day, which means several possibilities: baking bread
(provided I had all the ingredients), canning (zilch there), or even
photography (the fog has wonderful potential for effects).

Dieter Zakas

Dieter Zakas wrote:
> in article , George Shirley at
> wrote on 1/12/05 10:31:
>
>
>>Dieter Zakas wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>George,
>>>
>>>I like your advice, as I don't like wasting food; to me, it's basically
>>>throwing money away.
>>>
>>>While I'm not a senior citizen, my mother is, and she and my late father
>>>were born during the Depression. I'm a 36 y/0 bachelor living in a
>>>one-bedroom apartment, and I figured I'd like to grow personally. Mom never
>>>really did gobs of canning, though she would make a plum jam when I was
>>>younger. Later, she'd can the sour cherries harvested from the tree we'd
>>>planted in the backyard, and we'd use that as a spread. (Why my father opted
>>>for the sour cherry tree over one producing sweet cherries is beyond me.)
>>>
>>>As to canning figs, I, too, like fresh figs, and I'd like to get a small fig
>>>tree from Gurney's that I can put in a tub and move indoors. Then, I can
>>>snack on fresh figs and even make a spread out of them (homemade Fig
>>>Newtons, anyone?). The same goes for other fruits, too.
>>>
>>>Now, as for friends and family opening something I'd made...they'd be great
>>>gifts, not to mention a way of breaking the ice with someone new. Such
>>>personalized gifts NEVER go out of style, and are appreciated much more,
>>>because they're that much more special.
>>>
>>>Dieter Zakas
>>>
>>>P.S. Please keep the ideas and tips coming!
>>>
>>
>>I don't know where you live so can't make tree recommendations. Down
>>here the Brown Turkey is an old favorite. Mine is a scion from a
>>neighbors tree and has been frozen back to the ground at least twice. In
>>addition I have two kumquats, a plum, a pluot, a loquat, and a peach
>>tree on half of our city lot. It's surprising what can be grown, even in
>>pots. Look up Stark Brothers nursery on the web, they have lots of
>>"patio" plants available and I've always had good luck with their trees,
>>many of which are for colder climates.
>>
>>We're senior citizens on a limited income and we give home grown herbs
>>and home made preserves as gifts all the time. The following year folks
>>ask if we're giving those gifts again and tell us how much they enjoyed
>>them. Plus our grandkids and greatgrandkids are always asking for sweet
>>stuff. Makes it all worthwhile.
>>
>>George
>
>
> I live in Warren County, New Jersey.
>
> Today is a foggy day, which means several possibilities: baking bread
> (provided I had all the ingredients), canning (zilch there), or even
> photography (the fog has wonderful potential for effects).
>
> Dieter Zakas
>
I do all of those things as a normal course, lots slower on the
photography these days but I do need to bake a loaf of bread, thanks for
the reminder. It's foggy here too, it's an amazing sight to see the red
ball of the sun coming through the haze at sunrise. We're looking for
29F by Saturday and then warming up again. All of which is normal for
our very short winter.

George

Dieter Zakas wrote:
> in article , George Shirley at
> wrote on 1/12/05 10:31:
>
>
>>Dieter Zakas wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>George,
>>>
>>>I like your advice, as I don't like wasting food; to me, it's basically
>>>throwing money away.
>>>
>>>While I'm not a senior citizen, my mother is, and she and my late father
>>>were born during the Depression. I'm a 36 y/0 bachelor living in a
>>>one-bedroom apartment, and I figured I'd like to grow personally. Mom never
>>>really did gobs of canning, though she would make a plum jam when I was
>>>younger. Later, she'd can the sour cherries harvested from the tree we'd
>>>planted in the backyard, and we'd use that as a spread. (Why my father opted
>>>for the sour cherry tree over one producing sweet cherries is beyond me.)
>>>
>>>As to canning figs, I, too, like fresh figs, and I'd like to get a small fig
>>>tree from Gurney's that I can put in a tub and move indoors. Then, I can
>>>snack on fresh figs and even make a spread out of them (homemade Fig
>>>Newtons, anyone?). The same goes for other fruits, too.
>>>
>>>Now, as for friends and family opening something I'd made...they'd be great
>>>gifts, not to mention a way of breaking the ice with someone new. Such
>>>personalized gifts NEVER go out of style, and are appreciated much more,
>>>because they're that much more special.
>>>
>>>Dieter Zakas
>>>
>>>P.S. Please keep the ideas and tips coming!
>>>
>>
>>I don't know where you live so can't make tree recommendations. Down
>>here the Brown Turkey is an old favorite. Mine is a scion from a
>>neighbors tree and has been frozen back to the ground at least twice. In
>>addition I have two kumquats, a plum, a pluot, a loquat, and a peach
>>tree on half of our city lot. It's surprising what can be grown, even in
>>pots. Look up Stark Brothers nursery on the web, they have lots of
>>"patio" plants available and I've always had good luck with their trees,
>>many of which are for colder climates.
>>
>>We're senior citizens on a limited income and we give home grown herbs
>>and home made preserves as gifts all the time. The following year folks
>>ask if we're giving those gifts again and tell us how much they enjoyed
>>them. Plus our grandkids and greatgrandkids are always asking for sweet
>>stuff. Makes it all worthwhile.
>>
>>George
>
>
> I live in Warren County, New Jersey.
>
> Today is a foggy day, which means several possibilities: baking bread
> (provided I had all the ingredients), canning (zilch there), or even
> photography (the fog has wonderful potential for effects).
>
> Dieter Zakas
>
I do all of those things as a normal course, lots slower on the
photography these days but I do need to bake a loaf of bread, thanks for
the reminder. It's foggy here too, it's an amazing sight to see the red
ball of the sun coming through the haze at sunrise. We're looking for
29F by Saturday and then warming up again. All of which is normal for
our very short winter.

George

in article , William R. Watt at
wrote on 12/1/05 8:29 AM:

>
> Living in an apartment you might be interested in collecting wild fruits
> and berries from which to make jam, jelly, and wine. I find plenty along
> the banks of the river here in town where I go exploring on foot or by
> bicycle. They ripen in August here but I find many plants in the spring by
> looking for the blooms when there aren't so many leaves hiding everything.
> I've also been planting the seeds leftover from making jelly to see if
> that will increase the riverbank yield.
>
> There is some information on making wild fruit and berry jelly on my
> website (see below) under "Food".
>
> You can buy jars and equipment at grage sales and rummage sales, and
> new seals at the Dollar Store. The new seals I use are $1.50 at the
> supermarket but only $1 at the Dollar Store.
>
> For the amount of preserves and wine I make it's economical to buy sugar
> in a 50 lb bag at a grocery wholesaler who sells to small indpendent
> grocery stores. One bag does all my fermenting, preserving, baking, tea
> and coffee making for a year at 2/3 the cost of buying in small bags from
> the supermarket.
>
> Lately I've paid 10 cents for used preserving jars (normally 25 cents
> used) and maybe 5-10 cents per jar for the sugar in the jelly. The fruit
> is free so it's quite inexpensive, although preserving is labour intensive
> and therefore time consuming. For my own consupution I use old jam jars
> for free. (Make sure there are no rust spost in th eunderside of the lid.)
> For jelly to put away for future years or give away or I use preserving
> jars with new seals.
>
> I second the suggestion to cover up and wear an apron while boiling pots
> of jelly. Also beware of staining from juices. They'll even stain some
> painted surfaces if not wiped off before they dry.
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
> homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
> warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned
An additional thing to cover up are your feet. Don't make jam, jelly or any
other sygar syrup stuff in barefeet or sandals, that sugar syrup isn't just
hot, it sticks to the skin. And a long handled wooden spoon is good for
stirring that hot jam, that ay your hand is a long way away from the stuff
that sticks and burns.
Ellen
--

If you are just looking for something folksy to do, for an apartment
dweller making cheeze (preserving milk) might be preferable to making jam
and jelly (preserving fruit and berries). Milk and milk powder are
avialable all year 'round. The equipment is simple. For most cheeses you
do need to obtain a bacterial culture from a specialist supplier. That's
the only tricky part. The culture lasts for a few months in the 'fridge.
There is lots of info on the Internet. Our local public library has a few
books and a video. There's also alt.cheese but it's not very active.

Once you make you own cheese you can make your own cheese cake.



--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:

> Hi, group!
>
> I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
> respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent indicated
> one does not always need pectin.
>
> Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
> complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
> commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?

Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard inthe
US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
>
> Anyway...
>
> I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
> of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
> bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
>
> Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
>
> --Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and sugar.

Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
>
> --Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
> concoction.

Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
Jam is made from crushed fruit.
>
> --Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
> (Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
> than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)

But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of fruit.

For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
>
> (Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)

My pleasure.

>
> In general, how would one go about making each of the above three? If you
> can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a specific
> resource, I'd appreciate that, too.

Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been no
changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A detailed,
chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found at
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .

And this is a reliable resource:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are generally
pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05 - Chicken Tortilla
Soup, and Swiss Steak.
"Are we going to measure or are we going to cook?" -Food writer
Mimi Sheraton

In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:

> Hi, group!
>
> I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
> respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent indicated
> one does not always need pectin.
>
> Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
> complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
> commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?

Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard inthe
US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
>
> Anyway...
>
> I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
> of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
> bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
>
> Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
>
> --Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and sugar.

Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
>
> --Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
> concoction.

Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
Jam is made from crushed fruit.
>
> --Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
> (Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
> than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)

But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of fruit.

For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
>
> (Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)

My pleasure.

>
> In general, how would one go about making each of the above three? If you
> can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a specific
> resource, I'd appreciate that, too.

Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been no
changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A detailed,
chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found at
http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .

And this is a reliable resource:
http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/

Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are generally
pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> More on 1-4-05 - Chicken Tortilla
Soup, and Swiss Steak.
"Are we going to measure or are we going to cook?" -Food writer
Mimi Sheraton

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/12/05 22:52:

> In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi, group!
>>
>> I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
>> respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent indicated
>> one does not always need pectin.
>>
>> Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
>> complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
>> commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?
>
> Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard inthe
> US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
>>
>> Anyway...
>>
>> I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
>> of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
>> bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
>>
>> Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
>>
>> --Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and sugar.
>
> Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
> Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
>>
>> --Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
>> concoction.
>
> Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
> pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
> Jam is made from crushed fruit.
>>
>> --Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
>> (Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
>> than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)
>
> But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of fruit.
>
> For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
> acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
>>
>> (Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)
>
> My pleasure.
>
>>
>> In general, how would one go about making each of the above three? If you
>> can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a specific
>> resource, I'd appreciate that, too.
>
> Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
> The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
> http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been no
> changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A detailed,
> chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found at
> http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .
>
> And this is a reliable resource:
> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
>
> Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are generally
> pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)

Barb,

I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd chime in! :-)

In a previous post, I indicated I reside in New Jersey which, at last
report, is still part of the US. (Only my name is foreign.)

Thank you for both the clarifications on the different definitions, and
directing me to resources.

The reason I asked about using the jars on hand was that, well, because
they're handy, and also because they were the original packaging for various
jams and jellies I'd bought.

Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't have all
the necessary tools. What does one need to get started? I already have
wooden spoons that I use in cooking, but only saucepans and no pots.

Dieter

Dieter Zakas wrote:
> Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't have all
> the necessary tools. What does one need to get started? I already have
> wooden spoons that I use in cooking, but only saucepans and no pots.
>
> Dieter
>


I like to make jam (etc.) in a big nonstick T-Fal skillet I bought for
$10 a few years ago -- it looks sort of like a wok with a flat bottom.

To waterbath seal the jars, you will need a deep stockpot, or a water
bath canner, or just about any old pressure cooker or canner that has a
rack in the bottom.

A few other things that are cheap and very handy a a jar lifter, a
canning funnel, and a little blue plastic stick with a magnet on the end
for picking lids out of the simmering water. I think Ball packages
these 3 items in a kit, or you can buy them seperately. You might also
want a good candy thermometer for making jelly, but you can do without it.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:

> I like to make jam (etc.) in a big nonstick T-Fal skillet I bought for
> $10 a few years ago -- it looks sort of like a wok with a flat bottom.

You know I have one of those. I'll give it a try. I use my littler stockpot
for cooking up the preservers. I find the jar lifter is absolutely essential.
I like a soup ladle also to pour stuff into the jars.
Another note Dieter: get all your materials ready, peeled fruit, measured
sugar, pectin bag, jars in hot water (the simmering hot water bath is good) and
lids simmering *first.* When you cooking jam you need all your attention
there. You'd be surprised how fast the operation goes.
Edrena

The Joneses wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>
>>I like to make jam (etc.) in a big nonstick T-Fal skillet I bought for
>>$10 a few years ago -- it looks sort of like a wok with a flat bottom.
>
>
> You know I have one of those. I'll give it a try. I use my littler stockpot
> for cooking up the preservers. I find the jar lifter is absolutely essential.
> I like a soup ladle also to pour stuff into the jars.
> Another note Dieter: get all your materials ready, peeled fruit, measured
> sugar, pectin bag, jars in hot water (the simmering hot water bath is good) and
> lids simmering *first.* When you cooking jam you need all your attention
> there. You'd be surprised how fast the operation goes.
> Edrena
>
>
I do much the same thing as Edrena except I start my jars simmering
before anything else. That volume of water (for seven jars of any size)
takes a long time to get to boiling. As I get closer to filling the jars
with product I increase the heat, therefore they are in boiling water
when I pull them out with a pair of long handled tongs and empty them
into the stainless steel sink (don't need that much water for full jars).

By then the jam or jelly is ready to decant into the jars. Jars are
sitting on a folded towel, a large wooden trivet is awaiting the jam pot
and I have my ladle, funnel, lid magnet, etc. all ready, lids are
simmering in a separate pot. when you get to filling jars you don't have
time to look around for something you need. Wipe the jar rims with a
clean damp cloth to ensure nothing is between the glass and the seal,
put on the lid, hand tighten the ring, use the jar lifter to put the jar
in the pot. When the pot is full bring the pot back to a rolling boil
and boil for the time asked in the recipe. Use jar lifter to lift out
and set on the towel to cool and seal. The real satisfication comes when
you hear those lids start pinging. 24 hours later you wipe the jars down
with a damp cloth, take the rings off and wash them for further use,
label the jars (I use a sharpie on the lid myself, quick and dirty), put
them away for a week or two and then eat or give away. Total time
depends on the recipe but seldom more than one hour total. How dat?

George

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 19:36:

> In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > wrote:
>
>> In article , Melba's
>> Jammin' at wrote on 1/12/05 22:52:
>>
>>> In article >, Dieter Zakas
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, group!
>>>>
>>>> I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
>>>> respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent indicated
>>>> one does not always need pectin.
>>>>
>>>> Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
>>>> complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
>>>> commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?
>>>
>>> Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard
>>> inthe
>>> US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway...
>>>>
>>>> I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
>>>> of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
>>>> bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
>>>>
>>>> Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
>>>>
>>>> --Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and sugar.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
>>> Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
>>>>
>>>> --Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
>>>> concoction.
>>>
>>> Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
>>> pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
>>> Jam is made from crushed fruit.
>>>>
>>>> --Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
>>>> (Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
>>>> than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)
>>>
>>> But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of
>>> fruit.
>
>>> For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
>>> acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
>>>>
>>>> (Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)
>>>
>>> My pleasure.
>
>>>>
>>>> In general, how would one go about making each of the above three?
>>>> If you can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a
>>>> specific resource, I'd appreciate that, too.
>
>>>
>>> Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
>>> The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
>>> http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been
>>> no changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A
>>> detailed, chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found
>>> at http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .
>
>>> And this is a reliable resource:
>>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
>>>
>>> Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are generally
>>> pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)
>>
>> Barb,
>>
>> I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd chime in! :-)
>
> So-o-o-o-o, is that a *bad* thing? "-) (Tough if it is.)
>
>> In a previous post, I indicated I reside in New Jersey which, at last
>> report, is still part of the US. (Only my name is foreign.)
>
> Yup. I saw it after I posted my inquiry. New Jersey might be foreign
> territory, though. "-)
>
>> Thank you for both the clarifications on the different definitions, and
>> directing me to resources.
>
> My pleasure. I'm kind of a purist about such things. And, no, I don't
> consider freezer jam to be real jam. And if you choose to make your jam
> without the addition of commercial pectin, bully for you -- just don't
> stomp on or otherwise insult me because I do choose to use it and we'll
> get along just fine, Sir.

I see enough insults flung about on a couple of other non-food newsgroups I
read, so I have no reason to insult anyone.

However, because I'm a "canning virgin," I'm open to trying different ways,
such as with and without pection, for example. I'm interested in doing it
chiefly for personal growth reasons...besides, it would be an interesting
alternative to flowers and chocolate on a date.

>> The reason I asked about using the jars on hand was that, well,
>> because they're handy, and also because they were the original
>> packaging for various jams and jellies I'd bought.
>
> You're not the first person to ask, Dieter. The only lids I re-use are
> the one-piece ones that look exactly like a canning jar lid, but in one
> piece, instead of two. Sometimes, the lug-type closures can be a pain
> to put on. JMO.
>
>> Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't have all
>> the necessary tools. What does one need to get started? I already have
>> wooden spoons that I use in cooking, but only saucepans and no pots.
>
> Well, you need a big kettle. Do you have a stockpot? You need
> something deep enough to cover your jars plus about 3-4 inches. This
> pot does not have to be heavy -- it will just boil water and jars.

I could probably borrow some of the needed tools from my mother, who lives
about an hour away. However, if I do it more often, I'd want to invest in
quality equipment for myself, and not deprive dear ol' mom ("I NOT old!")
from her own.

> If there is enough local interest, I am set to teach a class through my
> community ed system. If you look at a pectin leaflet, you will be able
> to figure out what you need, I think. Here are my recommendations: A
> heavy-bottom saucepan or kettle for cooking the product - at least 6
> quarts capacity (I use my 6-quart stainless steel pressure pan); a
> large kettle for processing the filled jars (see specs above); a rack
> for the bottom of the processing kettle (I have a round cake-cooling
> rack as I do not use An Official Boiling Water Canner; I'm here to say
> that I believe canning tongs are a must -- they will go around the jar
> from the top, enabling you to lift the jar from the boiling water
> vertically, without tilting; a canning funnel (it has a wide opening
> that will fit into a standard or wide-mouth jar; tongs or a
> magnet-on-a-stick for fishing the flat lids from their hot or boiling
> water so you can place them carefully on the filled jar before applying
> the ring that secures the lid to the jar during processing; a couple of
> terry or cotton dish towels on which to set the processed jars as they
> come from the BWB (boiling water bath); a flat-edge wood spoon or
> paddle, or a rubber spatula that will take hot temps without melting
> (I've got about three of them--they're not dirt cheap - maybe $6-9
> each); a couple glass measuring cups, as well as a dry-measure cup (I
> like 1- and 2-quart glass measures); a large bowl to contain your
> measured sugar; and, of course, your jars and appropriate lids. Don't
> forget to wear a string of pearls -- they're a must when we're being
> June Cleaver in the Kitchen. I forego the high heels, though.

High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm a guy,
lol.

I've been cautioned about wearing perhaps an apron and shoes to protect
against splatters. As someone who works in heavy industry (I'm a freight
conductor), I appreciate the attention to safety, which is nothing more than
common sense applied by the bucketload.


> Someone said something about fresh fruit. Not true -- At least two or
> three of my first place preserves (the broad umbrella applying here)
> were made from frozen fruit. Matter of fact, it was more like five or
> six!
>
> Give a shout if I didn't provide enough info.
> -Barb
>
>
>> Dieter

Wow...you certainly provided a lot.

I've been saving almost all the posts in this thread so I can refer to them
when I actually set to undertaking such an endeavor.

Dieter

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 21:25:

> In article >,
> Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> (snippage of other necessary equipment)
>> each); a couple glass measuring cups, as well as a dry-measure cup (I
>> like 1- and 2-quart glass measures); a large bowl to contain your
>> -Barb
>
> I forgot to mention why I have the 2-quart glass pitcher. I pour the
> product from the hot preserving pan into the 2-quart glass pitcher (it's
> rare that it is not large enough to contain all); pouring from that
> pitcher to fill the jars is very much easier for me than using a ladle
> (for which I also forgot to mention the need). So, I cook, pour, and
> pour.

Barb,

When my mother made plum jam, after she poured in the product (her "canning
funnel" was a conical plastic cereal bowl whose bottom was cut off), she'd
pour melted wax over the top to seal the product from air, then close and
"boil seal" the jars. Is the wax necessary, or could I omit that step?

Incidentally, since my mother has the Tilia Foodsaver with a canning
accessory, I could borrow that to evacuate the remaining air from the jar,
and then used the boiling process to secure it, no?

Dieter Zakas

Melba's Jammin' ) writes:

> I forgot to mention why I have the 2-quart glass pitcher. I pour the

gee, a beer pitcher. never thought to use mine for pouring jelly.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

In article >,
(William R. Watt) wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' ) writes:
>
> > I forgot to mention why I have the 2-quart glass pitcher. I pour the
>
> gee, a beer pitcher. never thought to use mine for pouring jelly.


Great idea -- just make sure it will take the heat.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:

> In article , Melba's
> Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 19:36:
>
> > In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> In article ,
> >> Melba's
> >> Jammin' at wrote on 1/12/05 22:52:
> >>
> >>> In article >, Dieter Zakas
> >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi, group!
> >>>>
> >>>> I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
> >>>> respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent
> >>>> indicated
> >>>> one does not always need pectin.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
> >>>> complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
> >>>> commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?
> >>>
> >>> Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard
> >>> inthe
> >>> US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway...
> >>>>
> >>>> I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
> >>>> of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
> >>>> bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
> >>>>
> >>>> Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
> >>>>
> >>>> --Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and
> >>>> sugar.
> >>>
> >>> Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
> >>> Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
> >>>>
> >>>> --Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
> >>>> concoction.
> >>>
> >>> Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
> >>> pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
> >>> Jam is made from crushed fruit.
> >>>>
> >>>> --Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
> >>>> (Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
> >>>> than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)
> >>>
> >>> But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of
> >>> fruit.
> >
> >>> For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
> >>> acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
> >>>>
> >>>> (Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)
> >>>
> >>> My pleasure.
> >
> >>>>
> >>>> In general, how would one go about making each of the above three?
> >>>> If you can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a
> >>>> specific resource, I'd appreciate that, too.
> >
> >>>
> >>> Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
> >>> The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
> >>> http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been
> >>> no changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A
> >>> detailed, chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found
> >>> at http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .
> >
> >>> And this is a reliable resource:
> >>> http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
> >>>
> >>> Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are
> >>> generally
> >>> pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)
> >>
> >> Barb,
> >>
> >> I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd chime in! :-)
> >
> > So-o-o-o-o, is that a *bad* thing? "-) (Tough if it is.)

> >> Thank you for both the clarifications on the different
> >> definitions, and directing me to resources.

> > My pleasure. I'm kind of a purist about such things. And, no, I
> > don't consider freezer jam to be real jam. And if you choose to
> > make your jam without the addition of commercial pectin, bully for
> > you -- just don't stomp on or otherwise insult me because I do
> > choose to use it and we'll get along just fine, Sir.

> I see enough insults flung about on a couple of other non-food
> newsgroups I read, so I have no reason to insult anyone.

I was joking, Dieter. Forgot to include the smiley at the end. Unlike
rec.food.cooking, you'll find that the folks on r.f.preserving are
pretty civilized. We don't have too many ****ing contests here. I've
known George Shirley and zxcvbob and Ellen for rather a long time here.
And Bob Pastorio. We poke at each other (not so much Ellen -- she's
got too much dignity to get involved "-)) in good fun. I'd eat
home-canned green beans put up by any of those folks. Some of the
others. . . . maybe, maybe not. You'll find that Edrena Jones has her
own brand of humor -- and I'm loving it. St. Vinaigrette, indeed!!

> However, because I'm a "canning virgin," I'm open to trying different
> ways, such as with and without pection, for example.

Sure. I'm a slug. I make all but crabapple jelly with additional
pectin (and sometimes I use pectin there, too). Using the additional
pectin makes for a faster cook on the stove with generally good success
if you pay attention to the directions.

> I'm interested in doing it chiefly for personal growth
> reasons...besides, it would be an interesting alternative to flowers
> and chocolate on a date.

Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At holiday
time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a couple 4-oz jars
of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of homemade bread. They
stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made for presenting a bottle of
booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few jars stack nicely.

> >> Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't
> >> have all the necessary tools. What does one need to get started? I
> >> already have wooden spoons that I use in cooking, but only
> >> saucepans and no pots.

> > Well, you need a big kettle. Do you have a stockpot? You need
> > something deep enough to cover your jars plus about 3-4 inches. This
> > pot does not have to be heavy -- it will just boil water and jars.
>
> I could probably borrow some of the needed tools from my mother, who
> lives about an hour away. However, if I do it more often, I'd want to
> invest in quality equipment for myself, and not deprive dear ol' mom
> ("I NOT old!") from her own.

Sure. After a wonderful story about me in the MN Women's Press this
summer after my Fair coup, I was contacted by a woman who wanted a
lesson in jammin'. I would say that the two things that couldn't be
faked from an otherwise moderately-well equipped kitchen were the jar
lifter (the canning tongs) and the wide-opening canning funnel.

> > Don't forget to wear a string of pearls -- they're a must when
> > we're being June Cleaver in the Kitchen. I forego the high heels,
> > though.

> High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm
> a guy,

Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver, you
have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of George's posts
on June 30, 2004:
"My wife does most of the gardening but I figure out what to plant, get
to run the tiller, and do most of the harvesting and preserving. I still
can't get her to let me wear her pearls and high heels in the kitchen
though. B-)"

Did I not mention that George is, um, different?

> lol.

Indeed.

> I've been cautioned about wearing perhaps an apron and shoes to
> protect against splatters. As someone who works in heavy industry
> (I'm a freight conductor), I appreciate the attention to safety,
> which is nothing more than common sense applied by the bucketload.

> > Give a shout if I didn't provide enough info.

> Wow...you certainly provided a lot.

Helpful, I hope.
>
> I've been saving almost all the posts in this thread so I can refer
> to them when I actually set to undertaking such an endeavor.
> Dieter

Don't forget about the Google groups archives. Here's a link to their
advanced search page (It's where I found George's post, using pearls as
the word to look for, rec.food.preserving as the group, and George
Shirley as the author. I narrowed the date to May 2004 to current date.
Sometimes it takes some fiddling to find what I know is there somewhere!
<http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search>

I think others have mentioned this, too, but I'll chime in: Get
yourself a good paper text to have at hand. The USDA Guide is available
bound and in electronic bits on various websites; my personal favorite
is the Ball Blue Book; others gotta have Putting Food By by Hertzberg
(?) and Greene. The BBB gets updated every other year - last year was
one such edition. And the NCHFP site is a must -- the University of
Georgia is the only place currently doing research and testing for the
USDA according to my local university food science weenie. Brian Nummer
at NCHFP sometimes lurks here and usually straightens us out if someone
posts bad info that another of us doesn't catch. And the folks at NCHFP
have been very generous in answering emails, too, IME.

Looking forward to having you join us on r.f.p., Dieter. Welcome.
-Barb, in Minnesota (southern Canada to SOME smartyboots) where the temp
is currently -12 degrees and it's sunny and bright.
"We love it here, we love it here, we love it here."
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:

> In article , Melba's
> Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 21:25:
>
> > In article >,
> > Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
> > (snippage of other necessary equipment)
> >> each); a couple glass measuring cups, as well as a dry-measure cup (I
> >> like 1- and 2-quart glass measures); a large bowl to contain your
> >> -Barb
> >
> > I forgot to mention why I have the 2-quart glass pitcher. I pour
> > the product from the hot preserving pan into the 2-quart glass
> > pitcher (it's rare that it is not large enough to contain all);
> > pouring from that pitcher to fill the jars is very much easier for
> > me than using a ladle (for which I also forgot to mention the
> > need). So, I cook, pour, and pour.

> Barb,
>
> When my mother made plum jam, after she poured in the product (her
> "canning funnel" was a conical plastic cereal bowl whose bottom was
> cut off), she'd pour melted wax over the top to seal the product from
> air, then close and "boil seal" the jars. Is the wax necessary, or
> could I omit that step?

That's interesting -- never heard of the wax folks doing a BWB on top of
it. Using paraffin to seal is no longer recommended by the universities
and USDA folks. Pinholes can allow air and the development of mold.
Don't use wax.

Let me add here, Dieter, that in reading the group you'll find some
folks from abroad who do things different than we do, have been doing
them that way forever, and that's how they do it where they live because
they don't have the same things available to them. I believe the Brits
have little wax circles that they lay atop their hot filled jars and
then cover with a shrinky cellophane to seal it. Something like that--I
was sent some a few years ago so I could see what she was talking about.
Fine with me. Because I'm stateside, however, I pretty much stick with
the USDA's guidelines and specialized information for my location, from
my University of Minnesota extension division folks.

> Incidentally, since my mother has the Tilia Foodsaver with a canning
> accessory, I could borrow that to evacuate the remaining air from the
> jar, and then used the boiling process to secure it, no?

No. It's the boiling process that drives the air from the container and
creates the vacuum which seals the lid to the jar. I don't believe
Tilia recommends any sort of canning with their gizmo -- what you refer
to as a canning accessory is for jar storage of dry goods. George
Shirley is one of the Tilia experts who play here and I'm sure he (or
Ellen) will correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete.

> Dieter Zakas
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

Melba's Jammin' wrote:
> In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article , Melba's
>>Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 21:25:
>>
>>
>>>In article >,
>>>Melba's Jammin' > wrote:
>>>(snippage of other necessary equipment)
>>>
>>>>each); a couple glass measuring cups, as well as a dry-measure cup (I
>>>>like 1- and 2-quart glass measures); a large bowl to contain your
>>>>-Barb
>>>
>>>I forgot to mention why I have the 2-quart glass pitcher. I pour
>>>the product from the hot preserving pan into the 2-quart glass
>>>pitcher (it's rare that it is not large enough to contain all);
>>>pouring from that pitcher to fill the jars is very much easier for
>>>me than using a ladle (for which I also forgot to mention the
>>>need). So, I cook, pour, and pour.
>
>
>>Barb,
>>
>>When my mother made plum jam, after she poured in the product (her
>>"canning funnel" was a conical plastic cereal bowl whose bottom was
>>cut off), she'd pour melted wax over the top to seal the product from
>>air, then close and "boil seal" the jars. Is the wax necessary, or
>>could I omit that step?
>
>
> That's interesting -- never heard of the wax folks doing a BWB on top of
> it. Using paraffin to seal is no longer recommended by the universities
> and USDA folks. Pinholes can allow air and the development of mold.
> Don't use wax.
>
> Let me add here, Dieter, that in reading the group you'll find some
> folks from abroad who do things different than we do, have been doing
> them that way forever, and that's how they do it where they live because
> they don't have the same things available to them. I believe the Brits
> have little wax circles that they lay atop their hot filled jars and
> then cover with a shrinky cellophane to seal it. Something like that--I
> was sent some a few years ago so I could see what she was talking about.
> Fine with me. Because I'm stateside, however, I pretty much stick with
> the USDA's guidelines and specialized information for my location, from
> my University of Minnesota extension division folks.
>
>
>>Incidentally, since my mother has the Tilia Foodsaver with a canning
>>accessory, I could borrow that to evacuate the remaining air from the
>>jar, and then used the boiling process to secure it, no?
>
>
> No. It's the boiling process that drives the air from the container and
> creates the vacuum which seals the lid to the jar. I don't believe
> Tilia recommends any sort of canning with their gizmo -- what you refer
> to as a canning accessory is for jar storage of dry goods. George
> Shirley is one of the Tilia experts who play here and I'm sure he (or
> Ellen) will correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete.
You're exactly right Barb, that's all Tilia recommends is sealing fruit
jars of dry stuff. I keep herbs, noodles, etc in mine and there's a
whole rack of them in the pantry.

George

>
>>Dieter Zakas

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

> In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > wrote:
>
>
>>In article , Melba's
>>Jammin' at wrote on 1/13/05 19:36:
>>
>>
>>>In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article ,
>>>>Melba's
>>>>Jammin' at wrote on 1/12/05 22:52:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi, group!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I first posted this to the rec.food.cooking newsgroup, and one
>>>>>>respondent suggested I try posting here. Another respondent
>>>>>>indicated
>>>>>>one does not always need pectin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Also, insofar as containers are concerned, I have a number of jars
>>>>>>complete with lids I've accumulated which contained various
>>>>>>commercially-prepared jellies and jams; would these be adequate?
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe, but jars with two-piece metal lid and ring are the standard
>>>>>inthe
>>>>>US. Are you in the US, Dieter?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I recently got the idea to probably try my hand at making some kind
>>>>>>of fruit spread. However, never having done that before - I'm a
>>>>>>bachelor living by myself - I need to learn how.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now, I'm somewhat familiar with the differences between:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--Preserves: the whole fruit, or pieces thereof, in pectin and
>>>>>>sugar.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not necessarily pectin. You're right about the fruits, though.
>>>>>Preserves are more pourable than spreadable.
>>>>>
>>>>>>--Jam: usually pieces of fruit, again preserved in a pectin-sugar
>>>>>>concoction.
>>>>>
>>>>>Again, not necessarily with the addition of commercial (or homemade
>>>>>pectin -- depends on the amount of pectin in a given type of fruit).
>>>>>Jam is made from crushed fruit.
>>>>>
>>>>>>--Jelly: usually the juice of a fruit, mixed with pectin and sugar.
>>>>>>(Don't get me started on some off-brand jellies that are little more
>>>>>>than a fruit juice mixed with pectin.)
>>>>>
>>>>>But, that's the definition of jelly, Dieter: the jelled juice of
>>>>>fruit.
>>>
>>>>>For jams and jellies, it's as easy as 1-2-3-4: Fruit, sugar, pectin,
>>>>>acid. Gotta have it, one way or another.
>>>>>
>>>>>>(Note: If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'd appreciate it.)
>>>>>
>>>>>My pleasure.
>>>
>>>>>>In general, how would one go about making each of the above three?
>>>>>>If you can share advice, I'd welcome it. If you can point me to a
>>>>>>specific resource, I'd appreciate that, too.
>>>
>>>>>Here's the rfp FAQ file, from SCUBApix most recent reminder:
>>>>>The rec.food.preserving FAQ is available at
>>>>>http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/rfpFAQ.htm . There have been
>>>>>no changes since the last announcement; we are at Version 4.2.3. A
>>>>>detailed, chronological ordering of changes to the FAQ can be found
>>>>>at http://www.gbronline.com/jacke/rfpfaq/differences.htm .
>>>
>>>>>And this is a reliable resource:
>>>>>http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/
>>>>>
>>>>>Stick around. There are some experienced folks here who are
>>>>>generally
>>>>>pretty congenial (except for George -- he's ornery as all get out!)
>>>>
>>>>Barb,
>>>>
>>>>I knew it was only a matter of time before you'd chime in! :-)
>>>
>>>So-o-o-o-o, is that a *bad* thing? "-) (Tough if it is.)
>
>
>>>>Thank you for both the clarifications on the different
>>>>definitions, and directing me to resources.
>
>
>>>My pleasure. I'm kind of a purist about such things. And, no, I
>>>don't consider freezer jam to be real jam. And if you choose to
>>>make your jam without the addition of commercial pectin, bully for
>>>you -- just don't stomp on or otherwise insult me because I do
>>>choose to use it and we'll get along just fine, Sir.
>
>
>>I see enough insults flung about on a couple of other non-food
>>newsgroups I read, so I have no reason to insult anyone.
>
>
> I was joking, Dieter. Forgot to include the smiley at the end. Unlike
> rec.food.cooking, you'll find that the folks on r.f.preserving are
> pretty civilized. We don't have too many ****ing contests here. I've
> known George Shirley and zxcvbob and Ellen for rather a long time here.
> And Bob Pastorio. We poke at each other (not so much Ellen -- she's
> got too much dignity to get involved "-)) in good fun. I'd eat
> home-canned green beans put up by any of those folks. Some of the
> others. . . . maybe, maybe not. You'll find that Edrena Jones has her
> own brand of humor -- and I'm loving it. St. Vinaigrette, indeed!!
>
>
>>However, because I'm a "canning virgin," I'm open to trying different
>>ways, such as with and without pection, for example.
>
>
> Sure. I'm a slug. I make all but crabapple jelly with additional
> pectin (and sometimes I use pectin there, too). Using the additional
> pectin makes for a faster cook on the stove with generally good success
> if you pay attention to the directions.
>
>
>>I'm interested in doing it chiefly for personal growth
>>reasons...besides, it would be an interesting alternative to flowers
>>and chocolate on a date.
>
>
> Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
> have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At holiday
> time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a couple 4-oz jars
> of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of homemade bread. They
> stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made for presenting a bottle of
> booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few jars stack nicely.

Damn! that got me distracted for a bit, found the jam but the wife is at
work. B-)

>
>
>>>>Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't
>>>>have all the necessary tools. What does one need to get started? I
>>>>already have wooden spoons that I use in cooking, but only
>>>>saucepans and no pots.
>
>
>>>Well, you need a big kettle. Do you have a stockpot? You need
>>>something deep enough to cover your jars plus about 3-4 inches. This
>>>pot does not have to be heavy -- it will just boil water and jars.
>>
>>I could probably borrow some of the needed tools from my mother, who
>>lives about an hour away. However, if I do it more often, I'd want to
>>invest in quality equipment for myself, and not deprive dear ol' mom
>>("I NOT old!") from her own.
>
>
> Sure. After a wonderful story about me in the MN Women's Press this
> summer after my Fair coup, I was contacted by a woman who wanted a
> lesson in jammin'. I would say that the two things that couldn't be
> faked from an otherwise moderately-well equipped kitchen were the jar
> lifter (the canning tongs) and the wide-opening canning funnel.
>
>
>>>Don't forget to wear a string of pearls -- they're a must when
>>>we're being June Cleaver in the Kitchen. I forego the high heels,
>>>though.
>
>
>>High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm
>>a guy,
>
Wherefore is it written that guys can't wear pearls and high heels, huh!
You're just like my wife, always drawing that line. <BSEG>

> Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver, you
> have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of George's posts
> on June 30, 2004:
> "My wife does most of the gardening but I figure out what to plant, get
> to run the tiller, and do most of the harvesting and preserving. I still
> can't get her to let me wear her pearls and high heels in the kitchen
> though. B-)"
>
> Did I not mention that George is, um, different?

Yes, but a nice different, plus I'm totally heterosexual, just a wee bit
kinky at times. Fortunately I'm also too damned old to be playing games
any more. B-)
>
>
>>lol.
>
>
> Indeed.
>
>
>>I've been cautioned about wearing perhaps an apron and shoes to
>>protect against splatters. As someone who works in heavy industry
>>(I'm a freight conductor), I appreciate the attention to safety,
>>which is nothing more than common sense applied by the bucketload.
>
Well, I make my living as a safety consultant in heavy industry, large
hydrocarbon processing plants and contractors thereto. No bad advice on
safety from me and I'm glad to see you listening to the good 'uns on
here Dieter.

>
>>>Give a shout if I didn't provide enough info.
>
>
>>Wow...you certainly provided a lot.
>
>
> Helpful, I hope.
>
>>I've been saving almost all the posts in this thread so I can refer
>>to them when I actually set to undertaking such an endeavor.
>>Dieter
>
>
> Don't forget about the Google groups archives. Here's a link to their
> advanced search page (It's where I found George's post, using pearls as
> the word to look for, rec.food.preserving as the group, and George
> Shirley as the author. I narrowed the date to May 2004 to current date.
> Sometimes it takes some fiddling to find what I know is there somewhere!
> <http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search>
>
> I think others have mentioned this, too, but I'll chime in: Get
> yourself a good paper text to have at hand. The USDA Guide is available
> bound and in electronic bits on various websites; my personal favorite
> is the Ball Blue Book; others gotta have Putting Food By by Hertzberg
> (?) and Greene. The BBB gets updated every other year - last year was
> one such edition. And the NCHFP site is a must -- the University of
> Georgia is the only place currently doing research and testing for the
> USDA according to my local university food science weenie. Brian Nummer
> at NCHFP sometimes lurks here and usually straightens us out if someone
> posts bad info that another of us doesn't catch. And the folks at NCHFP
> have been very generous in answering emails, too, IME.
>
> Looking forward to having you join us on r.f.p., Dieter. Welcome.
> -Barb, in Minnesota (southern Canada to SOME smartyboots) where the temp
> is currently -12 degrees and it's sunny and bright.
> "We love it here, we love it here, we love it here."

George
Father Inquisitor of the Order of St. Pectina of Jella and former "Jewel
of the Internet"

ellen wickberg wrote:

> Only a couple of
> > inches of water to steam the jars. Uses less energy and easier to lift the
> > hot jars and lids out of the pot. The aluminum pots are great for
> > cleaning, heating, and mashing the fruit. I use a regular stainless steel
> > pot for boiling the juice.
> > You'll need a cloth to tie up or a cloth bag to strain the juice out of
> > the mashed up fruit. Heating the fruit before it's mashed releases the
> > pectin from the skin and flesh.
> > I'd get a book or two out of the public library and read up on jelly
> > making. It's a lot easier to read about something from a book than from a
> > computer screen in my opinion. Relaxing in a comfortable chair with a mug
> > of tea and a few biscuits or muffins with jelly beats staring into a
> > computer screen any day.
>

> You know, if you process ( in the BWB) for 10 minutes you don't need to
> sterilize the jars, just wash clean.
> Ellen

That's another thing - William uses a steamer to keep his jars hot, some use the
BWB pan, and some use the dishwasher. We keep the jars hot so it doesn't take so
much time for the BWB to return to a **Full Roiling Boil** . Also the USDA
guidelines calculate that BWB from warm jars, hot product etc. The BWB can also cut
down on any bad guy germs by heating the product thruout to a high temp. But beware
of dishwashers as some can accumulate crud on the bottoms that will deposit on your
glassware. They might be heated up clean, but have crud and old soapsuds too. I use
just the rinse/heat element.
And keep a diary or notebook of your efforts: where you bought the fruit, maybe
the price, how much product it made, was supposed to make, fruit type (damson plums
or italian plums or neighbor's plums), how long to BWB different sized jars (smaller
jars 5 min less, larger up to a pint 5-10 min more generally). My notebook has been
invaluable - found that cooked habeneros aren't as hot in sugary jam, need more than
you think (2 or 3) and garlic jelly is wierd and bottled grape juice don't work
worth a hoot without added pectin.
And after you add the pectin, it says bring back to a rolling boil, wait that
extra minute to a full rolling boil. Expect some failures by and by, these we call
Custom Ice Cream Sirup Blends. And do try the pears preserved in Brandy from the
Ball Blue Book. Use apricot brandy. Talk about a girl magnet - put a couple on
plain vanilla ice cream and look out! The pears, Dieter, the pears. And maybe you
could substitute some hippie beads for the pearls. And cowboy boots have heels
don't they?
Edrena
Irreverant Sister Stillroom, Order of St. Pectina of Jella

The Joneses wrote:
> ...And maybe you could substitute some hippie beads for the pearls.
> And cowboy boots have heels don't they?
>
> Edrena
> Irreverant Sister Stillroom, Order of St. Pectina of Jella
>


Mardi Gras beads and cowboy boots... That has possibilities....

regards,
Bob

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/14/05 11:50:

<snip>
>
>> I see enough insults flung about on a couple of other non-food
>> newsgroups I read, so I have no reason to insult anyone.
>
> I was joking, Dieter. Forgot to include the smiley at the end. Unlike
> rec.food.cooking, you'll find that the folks on r.f.preserving are
> pretty civilized. We don't have too many ****ing contests here. I've
> known George Shirley and zxcvbob and Ellen for rather a long time here.
> And Bob Pastorio. We poke at each other (not so much Ellen -- she's
> got too much dignity to get involved "-)) in good fun. I'd eat
> home-canned green beans put up by any of those folks. Some of the
> others. . . . maybe, maybe not. You'll find that Edrena Jones has her
> own brand of humor -- and I'm loving it. St. Vinaigrette, indeed!!
>
>> However, because I'm a "canning virgin," I'm open to trying different
>> ways, such as with and without pection, for example.
>
> Sure. I'm a slug. I make all but crabapple jelly with additional
> pectin (and sometimes I use pectin there, too). Using the additional
> pectin makes for a faster cook on the stove with generally good success
> if you pay attention to the directions.

Crabapple jelly? Interesting.

>> I'm interested in doing it chiefly for personal growth
>> reasons...besides, it would be an interesting alternative to flowers
>> and chocolate on a date.
>
> Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
> have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At holiday
> time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a couple 4-oz jars
> of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of homemade bread. They
> stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made for presenting a bottle of
> booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few jars stack nicely.

That was cute...but I think you knew what I meant. :-) Rather than present
my date with flowers, imagine the impact a jar of jam I made would have on
her? "You MADE this? How sweet!"

<snip>

>> I could probably borrow some of the needed tools from my mother, who
>> lives about an hour away. However, if I do it more often, I'd want to
>> invest in quality equipment for myself, and not deprive dear ol' mom
>> ("I NOT old!") from her own.
>
> Sure. After a wonderful story about me in the MN Women's Press this
> summer after my Fair coup, I was contacted by a woman who wanted a
> lesson in jammin'. I would say that the two things that couldn't be
> faked from an otherwise moderately-well equipped kitchen were the jar
> lifter (the canning tongs) and the wide-opening canning funnel.

When my mother made her plum jam, she used a pair of metal tongs to extract
the sterilized jars from their bath, and used the improvised canning funnel
I described in an earlier post.

<snip>

>> High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm
>> a guy,
>
> Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver, you
> have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of George's posts
> on June 30, 2004:
> "My wife does most of the gardening but I figure out what to plant, get
> to run the tiller, and do most of the harvesting and preserving. I still
> can't get her to let me wear her pearls and high heels in the kitchen
> though. B-)"
>
> Did I not mention that George is, um, different?

That's...putting it mildly. (And I thought I was different.)

<snip>

>
>> Wow...you certainly provided a lot.
>
> Helpful, I hope.

Heaps.

>> I've been saving almost all the posts in this thread so I can refer
>> to them when I actually set to undertaking such an endeavor.
>> Dieter
>
> Don't forget about the Google groups archives. Here's a link to their
> advanced search page (It's where I found George's post, using pearls as
> the word to look for, rec.food.preserving as the group, and George
> Shirley as the author. I narrowed the date to May 2004 to current date.
> Sometimes it takes some fiddling to find what I know is there somewhere!
> <http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search>
>
> I think others have mentioned this, too, but I'll chime in: Get
> yourself a good paper text to have at hand. The USDA Guide is available
> bound and in electronic bits on various websites; my personal favorite
> is the Ball Blue Book; others gotta have Putting Food By by Hertzberg
> (?) and Greene. The BBB gets updated every other year - last year was
> one such edition. And the NCHFP site is a must -- the University of
> Georgia is the only place currently doing research and testing for the
> USDA according to my local university food science weenie. Brian Nummer
> at NCHFP sometimes lurks here and usually straightens us out if someone
> posts bad info that another of us doesn't catch. And the folks at NCHFP
> have been very generous in answering emails, too, IME.

Since money is tight, I'll continue to give my library card a workout :-)
I'll also keep in mind those resources everyone's suggested.

> Looking forward to having you join us on r.f.p., Dieter. Welcome.
> -Barb, in Minnesota (southern Canada to SOME smartyboots) where the temp
> is currently -12 degrees and it's sunny and bright.
> "We love it here, we love it here, we love it here."

"Smartyboots"? Interesting term.

Dieter Zakas

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/14/05 12:01:

<snip>

>> When my mother made plum jam, after she poured in the product (her
>> "canning funnel" was a conical plastic cereal bowl whose bottom was
>> cut off), she'd pour melted wax over the top to seal the product from
>> air, then close and "boil seal" the jars. Is the wax necessary, or
>> could I omit that step?
>
> That's interesting -- never heard of the wax folks doing a BWB on top of
> it. Using paraffin to seal is no longer recommended by the universities
> and USDA folks. Pinholes can allow air and the development of mold.
> Don't use wax.

I don't recall whether it was paraffin she used to seal the wax. However,
she filled the jars to just below the mouth, and poured the wax on top, so
it was a form-fitting seal. Later, in order to use the jam, one had to break
the wax seal to get at the contents.

The technique went something like this:

1) pour in jam to just below the mouth;

2) add melted wax on top;

3) let the wax cool and add the two-piece lid. (My memory's fuzzy whether
she used the BWB or not.)

Either way, a tight seal courtesy of the wax and two-piece lid kept the mold
out.

> Let me add here, Dieter, that in reading the group you'll find some
> folks from abroad who do things different than we do, have been doing
> them that way forever, and that's how they do it where they live because
> they don't have the same things available to them.

I should have mentioned my mother's technique is likely from her heritage:
she was born in the former Prussia in what was then the Third Reich, and
likely picked up her canning methods from her mother. After living in the
States for nearly forty-five years, she still retains her accent. (Mom was
responsible for naming my younger sister and me, which accounts for the
nice, common German name I have...common in Germany, but not here.)

<snip>
>
>> Incidentally, since my mother has the Tilia Foodsaver with a canning
>> accessory, I could borrow that to evacuate the remaining air from the
>> jar, and then used the boiling process to secure it, no?
>
> No. It's the boiling process that drives the air from the container and
> creates the vacuum which seals the lid to the jar. I don't believe
> Tilia recommends any sort of canning with their gizmo -- what you refer
> to as a canning accessory is for jar storage of dry goods. George
> Shirley is one of the Tilia experts who play here and I'm sure he (or
> Ellen) will correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete.

Dang...I was hoping to be able to use that method to store mixed
photodeveloper, as oxygen is its enemy. Shoot.

Dieter Zakas

zxcvbob wrote:
> The Joneses wrote:
>
>> ...And maybe you could substitute some hippie beads for the pearls.
>> And cowboy boots have heels don't they?
>
> >
>
>> Edrena
>
> > Irreverant Sister Stillroom, Order of St. Pectina of Jella
>
>>
>
>
> Mardi Gras beads and cowboy boots... That has possibilities....
>
> regards,
> Bob

The pants Bob, don't forget the pants!

George

Dieter Zakas wrote:

> In article , Melba's
> Jammin' at wrote on 1/14/05 12:01:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>When my mother made plum jam, after she poured in the product (her
>>>"canning funnel" was a conical plastic cereal bowl whose bottom was
>>>cut off), she'd pour melted wax over the top to seal the product from
>>>air, then close and "boil seal" the jars. Is the wax necessary, or
>>>could I omit that step?
>>
>>That's interesting -- never heard of the wax folks doing a BWB on top of
>>it. Using paraffin to seal is no longer recommended by the universities
>>and USDA folks. Pinholes can allow air and the development of mold.
>>Don't use wax.
>
>
> I don't recall whether it was paraffin she used to seal the wax. However,
> she filled the jars to just below the mouth, and poured the wax on top, so
> it was a form-fitting seal. Later, in order to use the jam, one had to break
> the wax seal to get at the contents.
>
> The technique went something like this:
>
> 1) pour in jam to just below the mouth;
>
> 2) add melted wax on top;
>
> 3) let the wax cool and add the two-piece lid. (My memory's fuzzy whether
> she used the BWB or not.)
>
> Either way, a tight seal courtesy of the wax and two-piece lid kept the mold
> out.

More than fifty years ago my mother put up jams and jellies the same way
and my wife and I did too when we first married in 1960. Used to be an
approved US way of putting up jams and jellies but food science has
moved on in the last fifty years and paraffin and inversion methods are
no longer approved for food safety.

>
>>Let me add here, Dieter, that in reading the group you'll find some
>>folks from abroad who do things different than we do, have been doing
>>them that way forever, and that's how they do it where they live because
>>they don't have the same things available to them.
>
>
> I should have mentioned my mother's technique is likely from her heritage:
> she was born in the former Prussia in what was then the Third Reich, and
> likely picked up her canning methods from her mother. After living in the
> States for nearly forty-five years, she still retains her accent. (Mom was
> responsible for naming my younger sister and me, which accounts for the
> nice, common German name I have...common in Germany, but not here.)

Fairly common in Texas too Dieter, a goodly portion of the population
there is of German or Czech origin. Grew up with a couple of Dieter's, a
Max (actually Maximillian) and a couple of hotsy Gerta's. My wife's
maiden name was Himmelheber and she was from Maryland originally. Lots
of German names in the old melting pot.
>
> <snip>
>
>>>Incidentally, since my mother has the Tilia Foodsaver with a canning
>>>accessory, I could borrow that to evacuate the remaining air from the
>>>jar, and then used the boiling process to secure it, no?
>>
>>No. It's the boiling process that drives the air from the container and
>>creates the vacuum which seals the lid to the jar. I don't believe
>>Tilia recommends any sort of canning with their gizmo -- what you refer
>>to as a canning accessory is for jar storage of dry goods. George
>>Shirley is one of the Tilia experts who play here and I'm sure he (or
>>Ellen) will correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete.
>
>
> Dang...I was hoping to be able to use that method to store mixed
> photodeveloper, as oxygen is its enemy. Shoot.
>
> Dieter Zakas
>
George

(big snip)

> > Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
> > have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At holiday
> > time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a couple 4-oz jars
> > of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of homemade bread. They
> > stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made for presenting a bottle of
> > booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few jars stack nicely.
>
> Damn! that got me distracted for a bit, found the jam but the wife is at
> work. B-)

Oh George, you're so cute! ;-)

> >>>>Being that I'm new at preserving, it's logical to assume I don't
> >>>>have all the necessary tools

> >>>Don't forget to wear a string of pearls -- they're a must when
> >>>we're being June Cleaver in the Kitchen. I forego the high heels,
> >>>though.
> >
> >
> >>High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm
> >>a guy,
> >
> Wherefore is it written that guys can't wear pearls and high heels, huh!
> You're just like my wife, always drawing that line. <BSEG>
>
> > Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver, you
> > have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of George's posts
> > on June 30, 2004:
> > "My wife does most of the gardening but I figure out what to plant, get
> > to run the tiller, and do most of the harvesting and preserving. I still
> > can't get her to let me wear her pearls and high heels in the kitchen
> > though. B-)"
> >
> > Did I not mention that George is, um, different?
>
> Yes, but a nice different, plus I'm totally heterosexual, just a wee bit
> kinky at times. Fortunately I'm also too damned old to be playing games
> any more. B-)
> >

(more snippage)

and you're STILL cute!!

Kathi

In article >, George
Shirley > wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:
>
> > In article >, Dieter Zakas
> > > wrote:
(serious snippage -- good luck figuring out who said what)
> >>I'm interested in doing it chiefly for personal growth
> >>reasons...besides, it would be an interesting alternative to flowers
> >>and chocolate on a date.
> >
> >
> > Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
> > have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At holiday
> > time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a couple 4-oz jars
> > of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of homemade bread. They
> > stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made for presenting a bottle of
> > booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few jars stack nicely.
>
> Damn! that got me distracted for a bit, found the jam but the wife is at
> work. B-)

You're saved again!

> >>>Don't forget to wear a string of pearls -- they're a must when
> >>>we're being June Cleaver in the Kitchen. I forego the high heels,
> >>>though.
> >
> >
> >>High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing those...I'm
> >>a guy,
> >
> Wherefore is it written that guys can't wear pearls and high heels, huh!
> You're just like my wife, always drawing that line. <BSEG>
>
> > Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver, you
> > have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of George's
> > posts
> > on June 30, 2004:
> > "My wife does most of the gardening but I figure out what to plant,
> > get to run the tiller, and do most of the harvesting and
> > preserving. I still can't get her to let me wear her pearls and
> > high heels in the kitchen though. B-)"
> >

> > Did I not mention that George is, um, different?
>
> Yes, but a nice different, plus I'm totally heterosexual, just a wee bit
> kinky at times. Fortunately I'm also too damned old to be playing games
> any more. B-)

Yer never too old to play, George -- too old to win, maybe. . . .

> George
> Father Inquisitor of the Order of St. Pectina of Jella and former "Jewel
> of the Internet"
>

ROTFLMAOPMPSTC -- I'd forgotten that last honor, Jorge. I believe it
was Jewel of RFP.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

In article >, Dieter Zakas
> wrote:

> In article , Melba's
> Jammin' at wrote on 1/14/05 11:50:
(snippage)
> Crabapple jelly? Interesting.

Never heard of it? Dolgo crab apples make *gorgeous* red jelly -- and I
can get the crabapples free -- my locak KFC has a tree on their property
and the manager is thrilled for me to take as many apples as I want.
Then his folks don't have to pick them up off the ground. The Dolgos
are ready in about early-to-mid-August around here -- just in time for
my Fair antics.

> >> I'm interested in doing it chiefly for personal growth
> >> reasons...besides, it would be an interesting alternative to
> >> flowers and chocolate on a date.

> > Only if you're planning to smear it on her and lick it off once you
> > have. IMNSHO. "-) (Oh, I'm teasing, for Pete's sake!) At
> > holiday time, my gifts to friends and neighbors are usually a
> > couple 4-oz jars of homemade stuff accompanied by a small loaf of
> > homemade bread. They stack very nicely in the tall gift bags made
> > for presenting a bottle of booze or wine. Or if no bread, a few
> > jars stack nicely.
>
> That was cute...but I think you knew what I meant. :-) Rather than
> present my date with flowers, imagine the impact a jar of jam I made
> would have on her? "You MADE this? How sweet!"

Give her flowers and keep the jam in your back pocket for later. :-)

> <snip>
>
> >> I could probably borrow some of the needed tools from my mother, who
> >> lives about an hour away. However, if I do it more often, I'd want to
> >> invest in quality equipment for myself, and not deprive dear ol' mom
> >> ("I NOT old!") from her own.
> >
> > Sure. After a wonderful story about me in the MN Women's Press
> > this summer after my Fair coup, I was contacted by a woman who
> > wanted a lesson in jammin'. I would say that the two things that
> > couldn't be faked from an otherwise moderately-well equipped
> > kitchen were the jar lifter (the canning tongs) and the
> > wide-opening canning funnel.
>
> When my mother made her plum jam, she used a pair of metal tongs to
> extract the sterilized jars from their bath, and used the improvised
> canning funnel I described in an earlier post.

Yup. Whatever works. I'm still lobbying for the jar lifter, though.
VOE -- it's easier to keep the jars perfectly upright with that tool vs
standard kitchen tongs. I use them on the jar, not the ring. I don't
like to disturb the ring until I've heard the ping of the seal.

> <snip>
>
> >> High heels and pearls? I would look a bit strange wearing
> >> those...I'm a guy,
> >
> > Not at all, Dear. If you're going to pretend to be June Cleaver,
> > you have to dress the part. :-) Here's a quote from one of
> > George's posts on June 30, 2004: "My wife does most of the
> > gardening but I figure out what to plant, get to run the tiller,
> > and do most of the harvesting and preserving. I still can't get her
> > to let me wear her pearls and high heels in the kitchen though.
> > B-)"
> >
> > Did I not mention that George is, um, different?

> That's...putting it mildly. (And I thought I was different.)
>
> <snip>
>
> >
> >> Wow...you certainly provided a lot.
> >
> > Helpful, I hope.
>
> Heaps.
>
> > I think others have mentioned this, too, but I'll chime in: Get
> > yourself a good paper text to have at hand. The USDA Guide is
> > available bound and in electronic bits on various websites; my
> > personal favorite is the Ball Blue Book; others gotta have Putting
> > Food By by Hertzberg (?) and Greene. The BBB gets updated every
> > other year - last year was one such edition. And the NCHFP site is
> > a must -- the University of Georgia is the only place currently
> > doing research and testing for the USDA according to my local
> > university food science weenie. Brian Nummer at NCHFP sometimes
> > lurks here and usually straightens us out if someone posts bad info
> > that another of us doesn't catch. And the folks at NCHFP have been
> > very generous in answering emails, too, IME.

> Since money is tight, I'll continue to give my library card a workout :-)
> I'll also keep in mind those resources everyone's suggested.

Library is a fine idea -- just make sure you've got a relatively
recently published book. I don't think PFB has been edited in maybe 10
years, although I've not seen anyone hear criticize their times.
>
> > Looking forward to having you join us on r.f.p., Dieter. Welcome.
> > -Barb, in Minnesota (southern Canada to SOME smartyboots) where the
> > temp is currently -12 degrees and it's sunny and bright. "We love
> > it here, we love it here, we love it here."

> "Smartyboots"? Interesting term.

That's polite talk for smartass. And we are nothing here if we are not
polite.
--
-Barb, <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Trip Report and pics added 1-13-05
"I read recipes the way I read science fiction: I get to the end and say,
'Well, that's not going to happen.'" - Comedian Rita Rudner, performance
at New York, New York, January 10, 2005.

In article , George Shirley at
wrote on 1/14/05 17:50:

<snip>

> More than fifty years ago my mother put up jams and jellies the same way
> and my wife and I did too when we first married in 1960. Used to be an
> approved US way of putting up jams and jellies but food science has
> moved on in the last fifty years and paraffin and inversion methods are
> no longer approved for food safety.

So that method is either passe or taboo. Interesting...

<snip>
>>
>>
>> I should have mentioned my mother's technique is likely from her heritage:
>> she was born in the former Prussia in what was then the Third Reich, and
>> likely picked up her canning methods from her mother. After living in the
>> States for nearly forty-five years, she still retains her accent. (Mom was
>> responsible for naming my younger sister and me, which accounts for the
>> nice, common German name I have...common in Germany, but not here.)
>
> Fairly common in Texas too Dieter, a goodly portion of the population
> there is of German or Czech origin. Grew up with a couple of Dieter's, a
> Max (actually Maximillian) and a couple of hotsy Gerta's. My wife's
> maiden name was Himmelheber and she was from Maryland originally. Lots
> of German names in the old melting pot.

However, it's a shock when someone pronounces my name correctly when they
see it in print first. Usually it gets mangled...in grade school there was
one aide who'd correct herself whenever she scolded me: "blah, blah, blah,
dieter - Dieter!*, blah, blah, blah...."

Since it's not easy to determine the gender of the name's owner, I've
received correspondence addressed to Mrs., Miss, and Ms. If that doesn't
deflate one's ego, I don't know what will.

Welcome to my world. :-)

<snip>

Dieter

*it rhymes with "meter"

In article , Melba's
Jammin' at wrote on 1/14/05 20:39:

<chop>

>> That was cute...but I think you knew what I meant. :-) Rather than
>> present my date with flowers, imagine the impact a jar of jam I made
>> would have on her? "You MADE this? How sweet!"
>
> Give her flowers and keep the jam in your back pocket for later. :-)

:::rolling my eyes:::

On the first date? Mind you, I consider myself a gentleman. :-D
<snip>

Dieter

Dieter Zakas wrote:
> In article , George Shirley at
> wrote on 1/14/05 17:50:
>
> <snip>
>
>>More than fifty years ago my mother put up jams and jellies the same way
>>and my wife and I did too when we first married in 1960. Used to be an
>>approved US way of putting up jams and jellies but food science has
>>moved on in the last fifty years and paraffin and inversion methods are
>>no longer approved for food safety.
>
>
> So that method is either passe or taboo. Interesting...
>
> <snip>
>
>>>
>>>I should have mentioned my mother's technique is likely from her heritage:
>>>she was born in the former Prussia in what was then the Third Reich, and
>>>likely picked up her canning methods from her mother. After living in the
>>>States for nearly forty-five years, she still retains her accent. (Mom was
>>>responsible for naming my younger sister and me, which accounts for the
>>>nice, common German name I have...common in Germany, but not here.)
>>
>>Fairly common in Texas too Dieter, a goodly portion of the population
>>there is of German or Czech origin. Grew up with a couple of Dieter's, a
>>Max (actually Maximillian) and a couple of hotsy Gerta's. My wife's
>>maiden name was Himmelheber and she was from Maryland originally. Lots
>>of German names in the old melting pot.
>
>
> However, it's a shock when someone pronounces my name correctly when they
> see it in print first. Usually it gets mangled...in grade school there was
> one aide who'd correct herself whenever she scolded me: "blah, blah, blah,
> dieter - Dieter!*, blah, blah, blah...."
>
> Since it's not easy to determine the gender of the name's owner, I've
> received correspondence addressed to Mrs., Miss, and Ms. If that doesn't
> deflate one's ego, I don't know what will.
Only if one allows it to. A good friend recently died after a long
battle with cancer. His first name was Lanelle, rhymes with flannel. He
was always getting mail addressed to Ms La nelle. He always laughed
about it. As a kid and as a young man I was always the kid with three
names - George Milton Shirley, or was addressed as "Betty" by the smart
asses and bullies. By the time I was 13 yo old no one teased me anymore
because I would just ignore them unless they got in my face, in which
case they got whupped up on pretty good. Names are what our parents give
us, the ability to carry them is up to us. Seems as though you've done
that well.

George, rhymes with Jorge

> Welcome to my world. :-)
>
> <snip>
>
> Dieter
>
> *it rhymes with "meter"
>

In article , George Shirley at
wrote on 1/14/05 22:13:

> Dieter Zakas wrote:
>> In article , George Shirley at
>> wrote on 1/14/05 17:50:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> More than fifty years ago my mother put up jams and jellies the same way
>>> and my wife and I did too when we first married in 1960. Used to be an
>>> approved US way of putting up jams and jellies but food science has
>>> moved on in the last fifty years and paraffin and inversion methods are
>>> no longer approved for food safety.
>>
>>
>> So that method is either passe or taboo. Interesting...
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>
>>>> I should have mentioned my mother's technique is likely from her heritage:
>>>> she was born in the former Prussia in what was then the Third Reich, and
>>>> likely picked up her canning methods from her mother. After living in the
>>>> States for nearly forty-five years, she still retains her accent. (Mom was
>>>> responsible for naming my younger sister and me, which accounts for the
>>>> nice, common German name I have...common in Germany, but not here.)
>>>
>>> Fairly common in Texas too Dieter, a goodly portion of the population
>>> there is of German or Czech origin. Grew up with a couple of Dieter's, a
>>> Max (actually Maximillian) and a couple of hotsy Gerta's. My wife's
>>> maiden name was Himmelheber and she was from Maryland originally. Lots
>>> of German names in the old melting pot.
>>
>>
>> However, it's a shock when someone pronounces my name correctly when they
>> see it in print first. Usually it gets mangled...in grade school there was
>> one aide who'd correct herself whenever she scolded me: "blah, blah, blah,
>> dieter - Dieter!*, blah, blah, blah...."
>>
>> Since it's not easy to determine the gender of the name's owner, I've
>> received correspondence addressed to Mrs., Miss, and Ms. If that doesn't
>> deflate one's ego, I don't know what will.
> Only if one allows it to. A good friend recently died after a long
> battle with cancer. His first name was Lanelle, rhymes with flannel. He
> was always getting mail addressed to Ms La nelle. He always laughed
> about it. As a kid and as a young man I was always the kid with three
> names - George Milton Shirley, or was addressed as "Betty" by the smart
> asses and bullies. By the time I was 13 yo old no one teased me anymore
> because I would just ignore them unless they got in my face, in which
> case they got whupped up on pretty good. Names are what our parents give
> us, the ability to carry them is up to us. Seems as though you've done
> that well.
>
> George, rhymes with Jorge

"By Jorge, I think you've got it"? :-)

One of the benefits of such an interesting name is that in college, the
instructor never had difficulty connecting the name and the face when taking
attendance.

In high school, my teacher of French had an affinity (weakness?) for
interesting names, so he'd also come up with his own. One I remember from
his exercise sheets was "Crapulinette Boullepuante," which translated as
"Little Crapolina Stinkball."

Then there was the head cleric in the Philippines named Cardinal Sin.

What about the late Benny Hill's names, like Mr. Chow Mein...Fred
Scuttle....

Nominally,

Dieter