Growing up on a small farm, not big enough to support a family, we
raised all of our food. Beef, pork, chickens, and a huge garden which
I hated to work in at the time. Love my garden today.
My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
None of the family ever had food poisioning. Now I read that you must
heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
What has changed? I can well remember cutting an entire beef into
small chunks to can when the weather turned to warm in the winter and
the beef, hanging in a corn crib, was in danger of spoilage. It got
canned in a BWB.

I found some old canning recipes my aunt used to use, and they HWB their
meat for 2 hours 30 minutes. The veggies were for nearly that long. I
remember my grandma throwing some of the stuff away that didn't hold a seal,
but not much. My aunt told me that they used to put pork in a crock and
cover it with about an inch of grease. They would remove the grease when
they needed meat, remove the meat they could use, reheat the grease and pour
it back on the pork until next time. They used to hang quarters of beef in
the basement and when they were ready to use some, they would cut off an
inch of the bad looking meat to get to the good stuff and then cut off what
they needed.

Dwayne

"Allan Matthews" > wrote in message
...
> Growing up on a small farm, not big enough to support a family, we
> raised all of our food. Beef, pork, chickens, and a huge garden which
> I hated to work in at the time. Love my garden today.
> My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
> berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
> large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
> quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
> heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
> but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
> of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
> None of the family ever had food poisioning. Now I read that you must
> heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
> What has changed? I can well remember cutting an entire beef into
> small chunks to can when the weather turned to warm in the winter and
> the beef, hanging in a corn crib, was in danger of spoilage. It got
> canned in a BWB.

Allan Matthews > wrote:

>Growing up on a small farm, not big enough to support a family, we
>raised all of our food. Beef, pork, chickens, and a huge garden which
>I hated to work in at the time. Love my garden today.
>My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
>berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
>large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
>quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
>heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
>but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
>of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
>None of the family ever had food poisioning. Now I read that you must
>heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
>What has changed? I can well remember cutting an entire beef into
>small chunks to can when the weather turned to warm in the winter and
>the beef, hanging in a corn crib, was in danger of spoilage. It got
>canned in a BWB.

What has changed is the we now know more about food preservation than
was known before. And more equipment is available to preserve food
safely. People got sick from poorly preserved food and some actually
died from it.

You seem to think that "since we did not have antibiotics when I (or
grandma) grew up, I'll just treat bacterial pneumonia with mustard
plasters." People did the best they could with the equipment and
knowledge available at the time. And as always been the case, the
better educated and more affluent were more likely to take up the new
methods.

Should we revert to the methods used 50+ years ago? If we do that for
preserving why not for everything else? Do you still use a kerosene
stove?





--
Susan N.

"Moral indignation is in most cases two percent moral, 48 percent indignation, and 50 percent envy."
Vittorio De Sica, Italian movie director (1901-1974)

Allan Matthews > wrote:

>Growing up on a small farm, not big enough to support a family, we
>raised all of our food. Beef, pork, chickens, and a huge garden which
>I hated to work in at the time. Love my garden today.
>My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
>berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
>large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
>quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
>heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
>but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
>of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
>None of the family ever had food poisioning. Now I read that you must
>heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
>What has changed? I can well remember cutting an entire beef into
>small chunks to can when the weather turned to warm in the winter and
>the beef, hanging in a corn crib, was in danger of spoilage. It got
>canned in a BWB.

Nothing has changed...except the science with regard to the margin of
safety in home canned goods.
Botulism cases are rare but, you don't want to be the unlucky
statistic do you? Pressure canning of low acid food is just far better
insurance that you won't be.
Take a look at
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dbmd/disea...0is%20botulism

Ross.
To email, remove the "obvious" from my address.

Allan Matthews ) writes:

>.. a square boxlike container that held 18
> quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
> heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
> but the steam evidently heated the cans.

I still dinsinfect jelly jars this way, a small amount of water in a large
pot filled with jars and lids, simmering on the back fo the stove while I
boil up the jelly on the front of the stove. It's a method recommended in
an Agricultre Canada publication from the 1970's.

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Allan Matthews wrote:
> Growing up on a small farm, not big enough to support a family, we
> raised all of our food. Beef, pork, chickens, and a huge garden which
> I hated to work in at the time. Love my garden today.
> My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
> berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
> large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
> quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
> heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
> but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
> of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
> None of the family ever had food poisioning. Now I read that you must
> heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
> What has changed? I can well remember cutting an entire beef into
> small chunks to can when the weather turned to warm in the winter and
> the beef, hanging in a corn crib, was in danger of spoilage. It got
> canned in a BWB.
We now know that the organism ( spore actually) that grows and produces
the botulism toxin is not killed at boiling water temperatures,
therefore the need to use a pressure canner to reach the higher
temperatures that will inactivate the spore. Growth cannot take place
in the presence of oxygen or in a high acid environment. Meat and
vegetables are low acid. The appropriate conditions for growth do not
mean that it will necessarily take place.
Botulism is extremely rare, even though the spores are all around us
in the environment and therefore can contaminate almost anything that we
can. The scary part about eating low acid foods processed at BWB
temperatures is that botulism toxin does not make the food look spoiled,
or smell spoiled or give any other indication of its presence. The old
advice was to boil the opened product for 20 minutes to destroy any
possible toxin. Because of its rarity ( the toxin) most people did not
experience botulism. Those that did often died and were not around to
tell others about it. The chances of getting botulism are few, but the
results are deadly. It is a central nervous system poison and my
understanding is that life support can be helpful if a diagnosis is made
soon enough. I guess it is fair to take that risk for yourself, but
what about others who eat your food?
Ellen

Hello and welcome,

On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:13:11 GMT, Allan Matthews
> wrote:

>[...]
>My Mother canned corn, peas, carrots,tomatos, applesauce,beans, pork,
>berries, jam, and beef. She did not have a pressure cooker but had a
>large enamelware canner and a square boxlike container that held 18
>quarts on two shelves. This had a pan-like bottom for water and was
>heated on a kerosine cookstove. It certainly did not hold pressure
>but the steam evidently heated the cans. She canned hundred of quarts
>of all kinds of stuff this way and to my knowledge, nver had spoilage.
>None of the family ever had food poisioning. =20
>[...]

So did my Mum and so did I. Neither of us particularly enjoyed
cooking, it was pretty much a necessity. At the time a pressure cooker
was difficult to come by and very expensive, while fresh produce
easily available - in season only. We were perfectly aware of
foodborne botulism and did what we could to prevent it in the
circumstances. Meat was cooked in fat for quite a long time and a
layer of hot animal fat was poured on top right before cannning;
everything had to be spotless during preparation; all cooked meats and
veg were cooked again before eating etc. =20

>[...]
>Now I read that you must
>heat to 240 degrees in a pressure cooker to can low acid materials.
>What has changed?=20
>[...]

I don't think the science on the subject has changed much since
1940's and the disease and its prevention were recognised much earlier
(check the history at
http://www.emedicine.com/pmr/topic21...ection~history). What
changed (for some people in some places) is available technology.=20

Why nobody in my or your family & friends ever died of food poisoning?
Well, you know that the real killer is botulin toxin produced by the
Botulinum bacteria in the food (the bacteria themselves are pretty
harmless in your gut, once you're over 1 year old). Sterilising the
canned food properly (eg. with sufficient heat) nips the problem in
the bud and is the most sensible thing to do, if you can.=20

Otherwise you need to follow more cumbersome, and as such less safe,
rules, like heating the food *after* opening (10 mins at 80 degreess C
will do, see FDA docs at http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html) -
something you would do anyway with most meat and cooked veg preserves.
Jams and the like need to be made with acidic fruit (which most
berries are) - adding sugar takes the edge of the sour taste, while
not affecting acidity. General cleanliness helps. And some luck.

Maryna

PS. Of course not only canned food poses risk - the name botulinum
derives from sausage and incorrectly stored cold deli meats were the
first recognised source of botulism.=20