Hello-

I'm hoping this question doesn't come off as sounding like I'm making
this up or that I'm a complete imbecile but I need a bit of advice
before making some home-made sourkraut:

I remember my parents and grandparents putting up a huge, wooden barrel
of this every year and the fragrance and taste of this fermented product
beat the junk at the stores! I was spoiled by the best decades ago.

Here's the problem- I also remember a sort-of scum that had to be
removed as the fermentation process went along and I need to know before
I begin if it's a penicillin mold. I am allergic to penicillin and it
almost killed me a few years back. I still have to carry an Anakit with
me for 'just in case'. I keep bakery items including breads in the
fridge, and blue or green cheeses such as Danish blue are completely out
of the question now. You get the idea......

Could someone tell me if that stuff that needs to be removed is a
penicillin mold? If it is I will have to continue to do what I have for
years- buy it in a store as the brine is a vinegar/wine/salt brine.

Thanks kindly for your advice,
Carol

Glen Gibbons wrote:
> Hello-
>
> I'm hoping this question doesn't come off as sounding like I'm making
> this up or that I'm a complete imbecile but I need a bit of advice
> before making some home-made sourkraut:
>
> I remember my parents and grandparents putting up a huge, wooden barrel
> of this every year and the fragrance and taste of this fermented product
> beat the junk at the stores! I was spoiled by the best decades ago.
>
> Here's the problem- I also remember a sort-of scum that had to be
> removed as the fermentation process went along and I need to know before
> I begin if it's a penicillin mold. I am allergic to penicillin and it
> almost killed me a few years back. I still have to carry an Anakit with
> me for 'just in case'. I keep bakery items including breads in the
> fridge, and blue or green cheeses such as Danish blue are completely out
> of the question now. You get the idea......
>
> Could someone tell me if that stuff that needs to be removed is a
> penicillin mold? If it is I will have to continue to do what I have for
> years- buy it in a store as the brine is a vinegar/wine/salt brine.
>
> Thanks kindly for your advice,
> Carol
>


I don't think the scum is penicillium, but I don't kknow for sure, and
there's no reason mold couldn't form on top of the scum -- so it your
case I wouldn't risk it.

However, I have posted a procedure here a few times for making
sauerkraut in quart jars [basicaly, pack the salted cabbage into jars as
tightly as possible, fill with water to displace the air, close the jars
with canning lids, and put them in the basement in a big tub or
something to contain the leakage], and no skimming is required. You
might have to monitor the jars and wash the ones that leak before they
get a chance to mold.

Hope this helps,
Bob

zxcvbob wrote:

> <snipped>
>
> I don't think the scum is penicillium, but I don't kknow for sure, and
> there's no reason mold couldn't form on top of the scum -- so it your
> case I wouldn't risk it.
>
> However, I have posted a procedure here a few times for making
> sauerkraut in quart jars [basicaly, pack the salted cabbage into jars as
> tightly as possible, fill with water to displace the air, close the jars
> with canning lids, and put them in the basement in a big tub or
> something to contain the leakage], and no skimming is required. You
> might have to monitor the jars and wash the ones that leak before they
> get a chance to mold.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Bob

Hi Bob!

Thanks for the reply! I guess I won't be able to make it after all although
the procedure you've described sounds good.

I forgot to mention when writing that the method my parents and grandparents
used was a scrubbed, cleaned wooden barrel that if memory serves was purchased
every year, and one that had been used in wine making. I think I remember one
barrel was oaken and had been charred and there was some discussion as to
whether or not to use it. But I guess when you're an 8 yr old (like I was at
the time) I didn't pay too much attention.

The reason I mention this is that I didn't know if that scum/foam was part and
parcel of fermentation, of fermentation in a (used) wooden barrel; and that it
_might_ be absent when using food quality plastic pails? (Up here in Canada
if you go to bulk food shops such as Bulk Barn, you can purchase empty plastic
quart and gallon jars (such as those you see in restaurants which hold severl
dozen pickled eggs) and food quality plastic 2,5, and 10 gallon pails.

I'd be using the pails.....

It was just cabbage, carrot and a few onions, shredded. For every lb of
vegetables there was 1 Tblsp salt and 1 Tsp pickling spices. We'd rub the salt
into the vegetables to bruise them thoroughly and cause the juices to start
flowing. Then after everything had been worked in a large plate and heavy rock
(sterilized) was placed on top. A few layers of cheesecloth was put on top so
that the scum/foam could be easily picked up and new cloth was replaced every
so often. (Mom couldn't remember how often.) A salt brine was added so that it
came over the top of vegetables, plate and rock by several inches.

I think it I remember the barrel itself was about 3/4 full with shredded
vegetables and the rest of the space was taken up with the brine, plate and
rock.

This is was usually made in the Autumn and the barrel was placed into a cold
storage or in the garage for the duration of the winter. I know that mid -
Winter we'd go grab some to use with meals and so on but since everything can
be purchased now, no-one in the family goes through the trouble of making it
themselves any more. Too bad because it was just phenominal!

Thanks again for your input, Bob....

Glen & Carol Gibbons wrote:

>
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>
>><snipped>
>>
>>I don't think the scum is penicillium, but I don't kknow for sure, and
>>there's no reason mold couldn't form on top of the scum -- so it your
>>case I wouldn't risk it.
>>
>>However, I have posted a procedure here a few times for making
>>sauerkraut in quart jars [basicaly, pack the salted cabbage into jars as
>>tightly as possible, fill with water to displace the air, close the jars
>>with canning lids, and put them in the basement in a big tub or
>>something to contain the leakage], and no skimming is required. You
>>might have to monitor the jars and wash the ones that leak before they
>>get a chance to mold.
>>
>>Hope this helps,
>>Bob
>
>
> Hi Bob!
>
> Thanks for the reply! I guess I won't be able to make it after all although
> the procedure you've described sounds good.
>
> I forgot to mention when writing that the method my parents and grandparents
> used was a scrubbed, cleaned wooden barrel that if memory serves was purchased
> every year, and one that had been used in wine making. I think I remember one
> barrel was oaken and had been charred and there was some discussion as to
> whether or not to use it. But I guess when you're an 8 yr old (like I was at
> the time) I didn't pay too much attention.
>
> The reason I mention this is that I didn't know if that scum/foam was part and
> parcel of fermentation, of fermentation in a (used) wooden barrel; and that it
> _might_ be absent when using food quality plastic pails? (Up here in Canada
> if you go to bulk food shops such as Bulk Barn, you can purchase empty plastic
> quart and gallon jars (such as those you see in restaurants which hold severl
> dozen pickled eggs) and food quality plastic 2,5, and 10 gallon pails.
>
> I'd be using the pails.....
>
> It was just cabbage, carrot and a few onions, shredded. For every lb of
> vegetables there was 1 Tblsp salt and 1 Tsp pickling spices. We'd rub the salt
> into the vegetables to bruise them thoroughly and cause the juices to start
> flowing. Then after everything had been worked in a large plate and heavy rock
> (sterilized) was placed on top. A few layers of cheesecloth was put on top so
> that the scum/foam could be easily picked up and new cloth was replaced every
> so often. (Mom couldn't remember how often.) A salt brine was added so that it
> came over the top of vegetables, plate and rock by several inches.
>
> I think it I remember the barrel itself was about 3/4 full with shredded
> vegetables and the rest of the space was taken up with the brine, plate and
> rock.
>
> This is was usually made in the Autumn and the barrel was placed into a cold
> storage or in the garage for the duration of the winter. I know that mid -
> Winter we'd go grab some to use with meals and so on but since everything can
> be purchased now, no-one in the family goes through the trouble of making it
> themselves any more. Too bad because it was just phenominal!
>
> Thanks again for your input, Bob....
>

When I was a kid, we made sauerkraut in a stoneware crock, and we had to
skim it. If you use a plastic pail, you'll have to skim it too. The
kraut I make in glass jars does not have to be skimmed, and it tastes
the same as that made in a crock. I don't think there's anything
special about a wooden barrel (unless you're aging whiskey.)

The fermentation is a bacterial process, so you should not have to worry
about mold unless the scum on top (or the stuff that leaks out of the
jars) gets moldy.

Best regards,
Bob

Interesting Bob, I have been making sauerkraut in jars for years but have
never heard of filling them up with water.
I assume this would be a boiled and cooled brine.
With the jar filled you would have to get explosions as the kraut works or
as you say jars leaking.

The book I learned to make fermented vegetables from was
"Making Sauerkraut & Pickled Vegetables at Home" by Klaus Kaufmann &
Annelies Schoeneck .

The procedure I use is to shed, pound, and salt the cabbage to taste, and
then pack it tightly into jars but leaving an air space of 15%-20% of the
capacity of the jar.
The kraut expands as it works and will fill this space. It won't usually
leak but may if overfilled.
I have had a few explosions.

I try to have the lids on very tight as the kraut keeps best when no oxygen
can get in the jar.
Mostly I use jars with glass lids and wire bails, canning jars are fine too
but the metal lids can corrode in time.
Common glass jars with the regular quarter turn lids are usable but don't
seal very well.
I use them for the kraut I plan to give away.

I eat my sauerkraut raw always for the health benefits.
Jars are the best way for me to make it because it keeps well in the jars
and doesn't have to be processed in any way.

The skum that forms when making sauerkraut the traditional way is a yeast
that grows when the fermenting kraut is exposed to air. If the sauerkraut
isn't exposed to the open air the yeast wont grow.

The formation of the skum would be a secondary process of yeast growing on
the kraut.

If you made kraut in plastic pails as I guess some people do you would have
to use a weight and clean the skum off regularly.
I don't think they would be air tight enough to keep the yeast from growing.

Regards, Bruce

----- Original Message -----
From: "zxcvbob" >
> I don't think the scum is penicillium, but I don't know for sure, and
> there's no reason mold couldn't form on top of the scum -- so it your
> case I wouldn't risk it.
>
> However, I have posted a procedure here a few times for making
> sauerkraut in quart jars [basicaly, pack the salted cabbage into jars as
> tightly as possible, fill with water to displace the air, close the jars
> with canning lids, and put them in the basement in a big tub or
> something to contain the leakage], and no skimming is required. You
> might have to monitor the jars and wash the ones that leak before they
> get a chance to mold.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Bob

Bruce wrote:

> Interesting Bob, I have been making sauerkraut in jars for years but have
> never heard of filling them up with water.
> I assume this would be a boiled and cooled brine.
> With the jar filled you would have to get explosions as the kraut works or
> as you say jars leaking.
>
> The book I learned to make fermented vegetables from was
> "Making Sauerkraut & Pickled Vegetables at Home" by Klaus Kaufmann &
> Annelies Schoeneck .
>
> The procedure I use is to shed, pound, and salt the cabbage to taste, and
> then pack it tightly into jars but leaving an air space of 15%-20% of the
> capacity of the jar.
> The kraut expands as it works and will fill this space. It won't usually
> leak but may if overfilled.
> I have had a few explosions.
>
> I try to have the lids on very tight as the kraut keeps best when no oxygen
> can get in the jar.
> Mostly I use jars with glass lids and wire bails, canning jars are fine too
> but the metal lids can corrode in time.
> Common glass jars with the regular quarter turn lids are usable but don't
> seal very well.
> I use them for the kraut I plan to give away.
>
> I eat my sauerkraut raw always for the health benefits.
> Jars are the best way for me to make it because it keeps well in the jars
> and doesn't have to be processed in any way.
>
> The skum that forms when making sauerkraut the traditional way is a yeast
> that grows when the fermenting kraut is exposed to air. If the sauerkraut
> isn't exposed to the open air the yeast wont grow.
>
> The formation of the skum would be a secondary process of yeast growing on
> the kraut.
>
> If you made kraut in plastic pails as I guess some people do you would have
> to use a weight and clean the skum off regularly.
> I don't think they would be air tight enough to keep the yeast from growing.
>
> Regards, Bruce

> That sounds really interesting and I'm fascinated that the scum is yeast
> based. That would account for the wonderful fragrance when it's fermenting.

Thanks for your input, and a big Thank you to Bob and yourself for your help.
Really appreciated!

Carol