Hi everyone,

I'll be starting a fermentation in new French oak barrel shortly.
It's presently filled with water and not leaking and ready to be
filled.

I'm reading about how one should never let a barrel go dry and about
how barrels can get "infected" with bacteria if not properly topped
up. But I'm confused. During fermentation you can't top up the
barrel; there has to be some amount of head space to allow for
foaming.

My barrel is 13.5g and I have 17 gallons of must. I was going to
ferment 6g to about 10 Brix, rack out to a carboy for ML fermentation,
then put the remaining 11g in the barrel for the rest of the
fermentation.

I'm concerned about the areas of the barrel not submerged in must.
Won't it become a breading ground for all kinds of horrible bacteria?
Is it not a good idea to ferment in the barrel?

Any advice would be appreciated!

-Paul

Disclaimer - although I have a couple of small barrels, I've never
done fermentation in them.
I just use them for aging my reds.

I think barrel fermentations are often done with the head removed from
one end, to allow more room for foaming, etc. I suppose with a white,
being just juice, you could leave the heads on and allow the CO2 to
escape through the bunghole. For reds, I don't see how you could get
all the skins, etc. into the barrel through that little bunghole, or
how you would punch down the cap if you could. OK, so if you haven't
removed a head, I'm guessing you are doing a white wine (Chardonnay?).

Either way, you are looking at maybe a week or so of fermentation,
with the release of lots of CO2. I don't think that puts you at
significant risk for spoilage. Once fermentation is over, you will
want to fill the barrel and keep it topped up.

If you are going to fill it with the white wine, keep in mind that a
new barrel can impart a whole lot of oak flavor in a short period of
time, particularly the smaller sizes. Check it every couple of weeks,
after the first month, unless you are aiming for "Chateau Plywood."
For a barrel of that size, I don't think you'd want to expose even a
very oaky Chardonnay to it for more than a few months, so it would be
a good idea to have a plan for what you are going to do with the
barrel when you empty it. You can fill it with another wine (assuming
you have that much) or burn some sulfur inside the barrel
periodically, to discourage bacteria from growing on the inside.


Doug

On Oct 21, 2:41 pm, Doug > wrote:
> Disclaimer - although I have a couple of small barrels, I've never
> done fermentation in them.
> I just use them for aging my reds.
>
> I think barrel fermentations are often done with the head removed from
> one end, to allow more room for foaming, etc. I suppose with a white,
> being just juice, you could leave the heads on and allow the CO2 to
> escape through the bunghole. For reds, I don't see how you could get
> all the skins, etc. into the barrel through that little bunghole, or
> how you would punch down the cap if you could. OK, so if you haven't
> removed a head, I'm guessing you are doing a white wine (Chardonnay?).
>
> Either way, you are looking at maybe a week or so of fermentation,
> with the release of lots of CO2. I don't think that puts you at
> significant risk for spoilage. Once fermentation is over, you will
> want to fill the barrel and keep it topped up.
>
> If you are going to fill it with the white wine, keep in mind that a
> new barrel can impart a whole lot of oak flavor in a short period of
> time, particularly the smaller sizes. Check it every couple of weeks,
> after the first month, unless you are aiming for "Chateau Plywood."
> For a barrel of that size, I don't think you'd want to expose even a
> very oaky Chardonnay to it for more than a few months, so it would be
> a good idea to have a plan for what you are going to do with the
> barrel when you empty it. You can fill it with another wine (assuming
> you have that much) or burn some sulfur inside the barrel
> periodically, to discourage bacteria from growing on the inside.
>
> Doug

Yes... I have 17 gallons of Chardonnay juice. Sorry… Forgot to
mention that.

So everyone feels it's safe to drain out the water and use the barrel
as-is? It's brand new... Never been used. I didn't think about the
CO2 filling the headspace. With only 6 gallons in it, there will be
quite a bit of headspace, but as I said, once at 10 Brix, I'll rack
out.

I plan on fermenting 6 gallons first (which would leave quite a bit of
head space in the 13.5 gallon barrel). When at 10 Brix, rack out and
then refill the barrel with 11 gallons (the remainder of the 17 gallon
amount) and ferment that out, then inoculate with ML bacteria (Enoferm
Alpha) when Brix hits 10 or so.

For aging, after sugar fermentation was complete, I plan to top up the
barrel to its full 13.5 gallons and age the wine sur lees with
occasional stirring maybe once a month or so. I'd check it every week
or so for flavor and to top it up. Once I tasted too strong an oak
flavor, that's when I planned to rack it off and age in glass carboys
(and cold stabilize and fine).

Eventually, I'll blend all the wine together, so the wine aged in oak
will be thinned out by the 6 gallons only partially fermented in oak.
It'll be interesting to see how this tones-down(?) any over oaking.
Also, I'll rack off the 6 gallons from its lees after ML
fermentation. I hope this preserves the Diacetyl in that 6 gallons
for a nice buttery undertone when blended with the 11 gallons
fermented in the barrel (which will have its Diacetyl blown off after
ML fermentation).

Anyone see any problems with this approach?

-Paul

rec.crafts.winemaking wrote:
> On Oct 21, 2:41 pm, Doug > wrote:
>> Disclaimer - although I have a couple of small barrels, I've never
>> done fermentation in them.
>> I just use them for aging my reds.
>>
>> I think barrel fermentations are often done with the head removed from
>> one end, to allow more room for foaming, etc. I suppose with a white,
>> being just juice, you could leave the heads on and allow the CO2 to
>> escape through the bunghole. For reds, I don't see how you could get
>> all the skins, etc. into the barrel through that little bunghole, or
>> how you would punch down the cap if you could. OK, so if you haven't
>> removed a head, I'm guessing you are doing a white wine (Chardonnay?).
>>
>> Either way, you are looking at maybe a week or so of fermentation,
>> with the release of lots of CO2. I don't think that puts you at
>> significant risk for spoilage. Once fermentation is over, you will
>> want to fill the barrel and keep it topped up.
>>
>> If you are going to fill it with the white wine, keep in mind that a
>> new barrel can impart a whole lot of oak flavor in a short period of
>> time, particularly the smaller sizes. Check it every couple of weeks,
>> after the first month, unless you are aiming for "Chateau Plywood."
>> For a barrel of that size, I don't think you'd want to expose even a
>> very oaky Chardonnay to it for more than a few months, so it would be
>> a good idea to have a plan for what you are going to do with the
>> barrel when you empty it. You can fill it with another wine (assuming
>> you have that much) or burn some sulfur inside the barrel
>> periodically, to discourage bacteria from growing on the inside.
>>
>> Doug
>
> Yes... I have 17 gallons of Chardonnay juice. Sorry… Forgot to
> mention that.
>
> So everyone feels it's safe to drain out the water and use the barrel
> as-is? It's brand new... Never been used. I didn't think about the
> CO2 filling the headspace. With only 6 gallons in it, there will be
> quite a bit of headspace, but as I said, once at 10 Brix, I'll rack
> out.
>
> I plan on fermenting 6 gallons first (which would leave quite a bit of
> head space in the 13.5 gallon barrel). When at 10 Brix, rack out and
> then refill the barrel with 11 gallons (the remainder of the 17 gallon
> amount) and ferment that out, then inoculate with ML bacteria (Enoferm
> Alpha) when Brix hits 10 or so.
>
> For aging, after sugar fermentation was complete, I plan to top up the
> barrel to its full 13.5 gallons and age the wine sur lees with
> occasional stirring maybe once a month or so. I'd check it every week
> or so for flavor and to top it up. Once I tasted too strong an oak
> flavor, that's when I planned to rack it off and age in glass carboys
> (and cold stabilize and fine).
>
> Eventually, I'll blend all the wine together, so the wine aged in oak
> will be thinned out by the 6 gallons only partially fermented in oak.
> It'll be interesting to see how this tones-down(?) any over oaking.
> Also, I'll rack off the 6 gallons from its lees after ML
> fermentation. I hope this preserves the Diacetyl in that 6 gallons
> for a nice buttery undertone when blended with the 11 gallons
> fermented in the barrel (which will have its Diacetyl blown off after
> ML fermentation).
>
> Anyone see any problems with this approach?
>
> -Paul

I've fermented chardonnay in barrels, and it's just fine to leave the
headspace to accommodate foaming. I leave about 8-10" of headspace
(i.e. about 2/3 to 3/4 full... a 59 gallon barrel is about 26" inside
diameter). The fill level depends on the kind of yeast I use (more for
foamy type yeasts such as Premier Cuvee or Simi White) and the expected
fermentation peak temperature (60F - 70F, more headspace for warmer
ferment due to the increased fermentation vigor at higher temperature).
I use a fermentation bung to release the CO2 without letting in bugs.
I hope you have a cool cellar (58F - 65F) in which you do your barrel
fermentation; the warmer the fermentation, the less fruity the wine.

I agree with Doug's assessments. The CO2 keeps the atmosphere inert
enough for the relatively short primary fermentation time. I use a
batonnage wand (barrel stirrer) every couple of days to splash wine onto
the exposed staves and to introduce more oxygen for fermentation. Once
I see no more foaming, I top the barrel and insert the fermentation bung
so that it doesn't protrude below the bung hole where it would trap CO2
in the barrel and push wine up through the hole in my fermentation bung.
I've seen a soft bung that doesn't have that issue but haven't tried
one myself. If I recall correctly, it was called "Better Bung". It was
hollow, soft rubber to release CO2 up the sides of the bung and had a
green plastic cap on the top of the bung.

This barrel topping is only practical if you are doing two or more
partially filled barrels for primary fermentation so that you have
enough wine for the topping of all but one of the barrels. The balance
of the partial barrel goes into airlocked demijohns (carboys) for that
portion's secondary fermentation. This gives a more oaked fraction and
a less oaked fraction for later blending (quite useful if you are using
a new oak barrel).

I haven't experienced spoilage on exposed wood. The biggest spoilage
risk I've observed is poor area sanitation which attracts fruit flies.
That's an invitation to make vinegar instead of wine. Most often it's
just an increase in VA (volatile acids, primarily acetic acid) rather
than full blown vinegar.

I've observed reds fermented on the skins in an enclosed barrel;
punchdowns aren't too easy through the bung hole (you have to use a
barrel stirrer wand to splash the wine over the skins, or else you hard
bung the barrel momentarily and roll the barrel to splash the wine over
the skins. The latter risks a wine volcano when the bung is removed.)
It's a pain to drain the skins through the bung hole. But it can be
done, slowwwwly. You try to keep the barrel agitated during draining so
that the skins don't settle in the barrel, not that agitation is easy
for a 59 gallon barrel. This is why most folks don't ferment reds in
enclosed barrels. The one I saw most successful built an inverted
cradle with wheels onto which the barrel was set, and the barrel was
rocked side-to-side to keep the skins in suspension in the wine. Tell
the truth, I would've thought using a diaphragm pump to suck out the
wine/skins would've been less effort.

Gene