I'm intrigued by the no-knead conversation. I've rather recently started
baking 100% whole-wheat exclusively, and I've seen a BIG improvement in the
quality of my bread by extending the amount of time I knead to about 600
strokes or 20 minutes.

But it's a big pain in the ass (I don't own a mixer). Anyone try no-knead
with whole wheat? I may try it myself, eventually, but I'd prefer to hear
from someone else that it works before I ruin a batch of dough ....


--
Jeff Miller


-----Original Message-----
From: m

om] On Behalf Of TG
Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 5:18 PM
To:
Subject: Dough rot


Dick Adams wrote:
...
> What I perceive as dough rot happens if sponge or dough is
> incubated too long. Then kneading tears the gluten, or the dough
> may tear itself as it expands. You would probably not notice it
> in the so-called no-knead method. I have personally never noticed
> a good-looking unkneaded loaf. ...
> Dicky
..

Hi Dicky.

whether or not this 'no-knead' loaf is a good looking loaf by your
standards is your call but it'll do me, after all, my stomach doesn't
care what it looks like.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4040.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4038.jpg

I haven't kneaded a loaf in the usual sense of the word in a long time.
After getting a phone call one day just as I was about to start
kneading taught me you don't have to knead much, time will do it for
you.

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I use only freshly ground whole wheat flour and do not knead (at least not
very much). I create the dough in a large bowl and it never leaves the bowl
until it is time to put in the bread pans. I mix, let sit 45 minutes, roll
around and force dough into a ball (maybe spending one minute or so each
time), let it sit 45, do the same, and again until I see the dough it ready
and then let rise. When it doubles, punch down gently, tight ball again and
rise again. Then to the bread pans and the oven. I make 8 delicious loaves
each week this way. I use less starter so the dough takes more time to
'ferment' and rise and it has better flavor.

John



"Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
news:mailman.20.1157664239.36649.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>
> I'm intrigued by the no-knead conversation. I've rather recently started
> baking 100% whole-wheat exclusively, and I've seen a BIG improvement in
> the
> quality of my bread by extending the amount of time I knead to about 600
> strokes or 20 minutes.
>
> But it's a big pain in the ass (I don't own a mixer). Anyone try no-knead
> with whole wheat? I may try it myself, eventually, but I'd prefer to hear
> from someone else that it works before I ruin a batch of dough ....
>
>
> --
> Jeff Miller
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> m
>
> om] On Behalf Of TG
> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 5:18 PM
> To:
> Subject: Dough rot
>
>
> Dick Adams wrote:
> ..
>> What I perceive as dough rot happens if sponge or dough is
>> incubated too long. Then kneading tears the gluten, or the dough
>> may tear itself as it expands. You would probably not notice it
>> in the so-called no-knead method. I have personally never noticed
>> a good-looking unkneaded loaf. ...
>> Dicky
> .
>
> Hi Dicky.
>
> whether or not this 'no-knead' loaf is a good looking loaf by your
> standards is your call but it'll do me, after all, my stomach doesn't
> care what it looks like.
>
> http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4040.jpg
> http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4038.jpg
>
> I haven't kneaded a loaf in the usual sense of the word in a long time.
> After getting a phone call one day just as I was about to start
> kneading taught me you don't have to knead much, time will do it for
> you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>
> http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
>
> To unsubscribe send a mail to
> and then reply to the confirmation request.
>

Hi John,

Your "less starter" method sounds good. I'd love to know about what
ratio of starter to flour you use. And how much water too. Is it a
pretty wet mix? Would your technique work well for a free form loaf?
Thanks.

Can't wait to try this no knead thing.

Eric


BigJohn wrote:
> I use only freshly ground whole wheat flour and do not knead (at least not
> very much). I create the dough in a large bowl and it never leaves the bowl
> until it is time to put in the bread pans. I mix, let sit 45 minutes, roll
> around and force dough into a ball (maybe spending one minute or so each
> time), let it sit 45, do the same, and again until I see the dough it ready
> and then let rise. When it doubles, punch down gently, tight ball again and
> rise again. Then to the bread pans and the oven. I make 8 delicious loaves
> each week this way. I use less starter so the dough takes more time to
> 'ferment' and rise and it has better flavor.
>
> John
>
>
>
> "Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
> news:mailman.20.1157664239.36649.rec.food.sourdoug ...
> >
> > I'm intrigued by the no-knead conversation. I've rather recently started
> > baking 100% whole-wheat exclusively, and I've seen a BIG improvement in
> > the
> > quality of my bread by extending the amount of time I knead to about 600
> > strokes or 20 minutes.
> >
> > But it's a big pain in the ass (I don't own a mixer). Anyone try no-knead
> > with whole wheat? I may try it myself, eventually, but I'd prefer to hear
> > from someone else that it works before I ruin a batch of dough ....
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jeff Miller
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:
> > m
> >
> > om] On Behalf Of TG
> > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 5:18 PM
> > To:
> > Subject: Dough rot
> >
> >
> > Dick Adams wrote:
> > ..
> >> What I perceive as dough rot happens if sponge or dough is
> >> incubated too long. Then kneading tears the gluten, or the dough
> >> may tear itself as it expands. You would probably not notice it
> >> in the so-called no-knead method. I have personally never noticed
> >> a good-looking unkneaded loaf. ...
> >> Dicky
> > .
> >
> > Hi Dicky.
> >
> > whether or not this 'no-knead' loaf is a good looking loaf by your
> > standards is your call but it'll do me, after all, my stomach doesn't
> > care what it looks like.
> >
> > http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4040.jpg
> > http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4038.jpg
> >
> > I haven't kneaded a loaf in the usual sense of the word in a long time.
> > After getting a phone call one day just as I was about to start
> > kneading taught me you don't have to knead much, time will do it for
> > you.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > rec.food.sourdough mailing list
> >
> > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
> >
> > To unsubscribe send a mail to
> > and then reply to the confirmation request.
> >

I use 9 cups of flour with 1 1/2 cups of starter. Free form baking is fine.
I just like small loaves I can freeze so I can make it last for longer
periods of time.

"Breadtopia" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi John,
>
> Your "less starter" method sounds good. I'd love to know about what
> ratio of starter to flour you use. And how much water too. Is it a
> pretty wet mix? Would your technique work well for a free form loaf?
> Thanks.
>
> Can't wait to try this no knead thing.
>
> Eric
>
>
> BigJohn wrote:
>> I use only freshly ground whole wheat flour and do not knead (at least
>> not
>> very much). I create the dough in a large bowl and it never leaves the
>> bowl
>> until it is time to put in the bread pans. I mix, let sit 45 minutes,
>> roll
>> around and force dough into a ball (maybe spending one minute or so each
>> time), let it sit 45, do the same, and again until I see the dough it
>> ready
>> and then let rise. When it doubles, punch down gently, tight ball again
>> and
>> rise again. Then to the bread pans and the oven. I make 8 delicious
>> loaves
>> each week this way. I use less starter so the dough takes more time to
>> 'ferment' and rise and it has better flavor.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jeff Miller" > wrote in message
>> news:mailman.20.1157664239.36649.rec.food.sourdoug ...
>> >
>> > I'm intrigued by the no-knead conversation. I've rather recently
>> > started
>> > baking 100% whole-wheat exclusively, and I've seen a BIG improvement in
>> > the
>> > quality of my bread by extending the amount of time I knead to about
>> > 600
>> > strokes or 20 minutes.
>> >
>> > But it's a big pain in the ass (I don't own a mixer). Anyone try
>> > no-knead
>> > with whole wheat? I may try it myself, eventually, but I'd prefer to
>> > hear
>> > from someone else that it works before I ruin a batch of dough ....
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jeff Miller
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From:
>> > m
>> >
>> > om] On Behalf Of TG
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 5:18 PM
>> > To:
>> > Subject: Dough rot
>> >
>> >
>> > Dick Adams wrote:
>> > ..
>> >> What I perceive as dough rot happens if sponge or dough is
>> >> incubated too long. Then kneading tears the gluten, or the dough
>> >> may tear itself as it expands. You would probably not notice it
>> >> in the so-called no-knead method. I have personally never noticed
>> >> a good-looking unkneaded loaf. ...
>> >> Dicky
>> > .
>> >
>> > Hi Dicky.
>> >
>> > whether or not this 'no-knead' loaf is a good looking loaf by your
>> > standards is your call but it'll do me, after all, my stomach doesn't
>> > care what it looks like.
>> >
>> > http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4040.jpg
>> > http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g2...g/IMG_4038.jpg
>> >
>> > I haven't kneaded a loaf in the usual sense of the word in a long time.
>> > After getting a phone call one day just as I was about to start
>> > kneading taught me you don't have to knead much, time will do it for
>> > you.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > rec.food.sourdough mailing list
>> >
>> > http://www.otherwhen.com/mailman/lis...food.sourdough
>> >
>> > To unsubscribe send a mail to
>> >
>> > and then reply to the confirmation request.
>> >
>