Thanks, Will. This is helpful.

>> Anyone with experience making lofty 100% whole wheat sourdough
>> loaves, I'd love to hear your tips.
>
>Well... you won't achieve big hole, high loft bread, but you can avoid
>really dense loaves. You may be doing these things, they are pretty
>general, and widely practiced.

My loaves aren't dense. They're just not as high as the regular yeast buttermilk loaves I make,
which are also whole-wheat. That recipe is from Laurel's Kitchen, though I've altered it a bit
by incorporating a wet sponge beforehand to deepen its flavor. It's gigantic. I'd have never
thought it possible to make whole wheat bread that light, but Laurel knows whole wheat.

>1) Do not knead. Mix well and let the dough ripen on it's own. It will
>form gluten and the gluten will be of better quality. Kneading whole
>grain doughs macerates the gluten due to the presence of grain husks
>(bran).

So strange. The Laurel's Kitchen Bread book recommends extensive kneading of whole wheat
to get a good result, which I started doing and, indeed, it does make a huge difference.

But it's a big pain in the ass, especially since I'm too cheap to buy a mixer.

On the other hand, I've been working with some very different recipes that soak all the flour
one way or another overnight before mixing up the final dough, and those require very little
kneading before they'll windowpane nicely. And if they've got some buttermilk in them, they
rise just as well as Laurel's breads.

Heck, got nothing to lose really. I'll give it a shot, see what happens. Thanks!

>2) Read Mike Avery's posts on stretch-and-fold. This technique gently
>laminates the gluten strands and distributes gas pockets. The laminated
>gluten layers are stronger, hold gas better. This translates to higher
>loft during the final proof.

Yes, I've been using the stretch and fold for a while to good effect, though not without
kneading it beforehand. I did have good luck with it, though, when I made a few white flour
super-wet doughs that defied much hand kneading.

How long do you let your dough ferment before you pop it in the oven? And how often do
you fold it? Once every hour or two?

>3) consider amending your dough with a portion of cooked flour. I often
>use 15% rye, barley, or oats but wheat will do. The cooked portion is
>softer. Rye, barley and oats are soft grains and the bran turns to
>mucilage. You are gaining denatured bran (and some interesting flavor)
>but losing some gluten. I think it's worth it, others may disagree.

I like multi-grain breads, but I'd like to nail a good technique to get a loftier loaf before
going back to other grains. Buckwehat is really nice, though I've not tried it with sourdough. I
love oatmeal bread, but when I've added it to sourdough, the sourdough completely
overwhelms the oatmeal flavor.

Once I get a technique I like, I'll start adding all sorts of stuff -- corn, flaxseeds, etc.

>4) You can manage the "sour" flavor, by controlling your sponge. A
>large, 90% hydration, wet sponge will make a mild bread. A smaller,
>denser sponge that is diluted with water when the dough is made will
>make a sharper bread. This is because the initial flour density buffers
>your early acid build and water added going into the dough stage
>dilutes it further. The net effect is to allow your culture to
>generate more acid (and your dough to accept it without getting flabby)
> before the pH window closes.

Yes, that's been my experience. I keep my starter very dry.

>5) This one will generate protests but... after the dough is well
>ripened and you are at final proof... pick up the pace... push the
>scaled, shaped dough with gentle heat. I use a hot pad in a plastic
>Rubbermaid container. By working with heat, you drive more gas into the
>emerging crumb structure and you want to do that before the gluten
>begins degrading. CO2, acetic acid and ethyl alcohol, the main
>volatiles of fermentation, age and eventually degrade dough. (So does
>lactic acid, but it is not volatile). As the loaf is rising, the gluten
>is stretching. Time and stretch weaken gluten. Here is where laminated
>gluten (via stretch and fold) and reduced time (via heat at the end)
>help.

Neat idea. I've got a hot pad, so perhaps I'll try this as well. Thanks for all the suggestions.
I've had pretty good luck with whole wheat so far, but I think I could be doing better. It's such
a different beast from white flour, I'm finding that many of the regular rules don't seem to
apply.

--
Jeff